Dan Hafner: No-Code Solutions Revolutionize Community Building!

So this is super exciting because you got to see where this conversation was born, which is Alex, the founder of Pod Match, came on and we were exploring the idea of a group directory. Because when I did my TEDX talk, that's what pretty much everybody asked me at the end of it was.

What group should I join? And I'm like, I don't know, I have no idea. I mean, you could go to meetup, right? Or Eventbrite. I've helped people do this on my challenges because that's my whole thing is telling people, what is your goal now? Find a group. And I've kind of gone through it with them where I'm like, okay, let's look on Eventbrite, let's look on meetup. But there's always. It's just not good enough. And so after the talk, I mentioned I have a comedy coach and he was like, maybe you should do a global group directory. And then I met Alex, who built Pod Match, and then he was like, you have to meet Dan. And so here is Dan.

Here I am.

Here you are. So I'd love you to introduce yourself and what you do and then we're going to take you on this. We were just going to have a kind of like a discovery call to see if I'm going to work with him. And then I'm just like, do you mind if we just do this live and we can kind of like work through the process? And he was like, sure. So here we go.

Yeah, it's building in public and that's, that's one of the cool things that I love to do. Yeah. So. And then the other, just before I do that too, like what you just mentioned is, it's that, it's that leading people into the next thing and you, you probably lose a lot of people when it's like, well, hey, what should I join? And then you just kind of have them going every which way and then that, that's a lost opportunity. You know what I mean? So anyway, yeah, just a couple quick thoughts there. But yeah, so my name is Dan Haffner. As a, as you know, Stacy alluded to good friends with Alex of Pod Match. We've been, I mean, we've never actually met in person, but we've, we've been good friends, you know, in a couple different masterminds for quite a while. So love talking with Alex, love connecting with him and stuff. Podmatch, for any of you who are not on there, is definitely something to check out, but I'm, I'm out Here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Have been running a small agency for myself since about 2020, since around Covid and it's around soft. It's in the software development world as you could probably guess. Just changed the name to dapr. No code. I guess it's a lot focused on no code tools. So it's really, really neat because we work with a lot with people just like Stacey who are individuals or small startups or people in this space who are looking to build something and you're kind of the exact avatar of that of like you don't really know the next step. Might not be super technically inclined as to the point of you can probably hold your own on a computer, but when it comes to like writing code or figuring out software, you have like no idea. Which is how I got my start in all this as well too. So I just kind of built this from a hobby into a freelancing thing into a business. So it's kind of my story. Yeah.

So you stay with no code then like you help people or is it that you're just helping people build something in the beginning? Or can you. Can I keep it on a. No code?

You can keep it for sure. Yeah, yeah. There used to be. When they first started, there was. That was one of the big things with people was like, well, I can't scale with no code. You know, that's actually going away. That's actually. I was just, I was just telling her before we hit record. I was at a conference for the past couple of days virtually where there was several people that actually came on and were speakers that actually had custom coded applications that switched to a no code solution from like big enterprise levels too. Not just like, oh, I have this app that I paid somebody to develop and then did this. They actually consciously chose to switch to a different solution because of the advantages of it. So yeah, so you can definitely stay on. But there's. But there's somebody like Alex who took podmatch that was on bubble and moved it into a custom solution. So it gives you flexibility. Yeah.

So cool. So you guys, I want you to see this from a lot of different perspectives because the reason why it's cool that we're doing this live is because, number one, I am wanting to know, I would have paid you for this session, you know what I mean? Like in terms of learning like how to do this. And number two, so I'm actually really excited now that I know it's even can stay on no code. I'm like, oh man, maybe I could do this. Cause for some reason. Sorry, my dog is in the back, like, hacking back there.

Oh, no words.

Making sure she's okay. But anyway, no. And so in my mind, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have to switch it to another platform. I don't want to do that. So you just answered that objection, which is good. Number two, I love using my community as a way to kind of keep these ideas alive, because this happened to me. I had a dating challenge that I was running, and I had the founder of my podcast platform come on an expert panel, because he did 365 podcast episodes every day for a year. And so when you do that many, you're good at rejection. So I brought him in from a rejection perspective for an expert panel for the dating challenge. And he gave everyone a dare, which was to start a podcast. And because we then explored that in my group, no one was interested the first round, but then someone heard it the second round, and then basically said, oh, are you still helping people start podcasting podcast? And I was like, I'm not, but I could. And that's when my startup podcast challenge came, because someone heard me talking about it with someone, even though it wasn't at the time. And so it kind of keeps an idea alive, which I really like. Yeah. And then the third thing is now you guys get to learn, and maybe you get to meet Dan. Maybe there's some idea that you've had in your mind and you had no idea that it was even possible, but then you're like, wait, I could actually do this? And it doesn't involve all this craziness. So anyway, so I just wanted to point out how cool it is that you're doing this and you were willing, so. Okay, so I think what I'm gonna do is let you run the rest, like whatever you need to know from me to decide if it's a good fit for us to work together. Yeah. If that's cool.

Yeah, yeah. And just before I dive into that, I will tell you kind of my origin story of how I got into this, because it's very, very useful for that. So I. When I got engaged to my now wife, we were actually engaged for two years. Cause we wanted to get married the year after, but it just didn't work out. We were moving, so we just decided, okay, let's do another year. I gained a little bit of weight, obviously, because I was not very disciplined for those two years, but I needed to lose some weight. And I was really into at the time a lot of Apps that you could basically kind of bet money to be like, hey, I'm gonna lose this amount of weight, and if I don't, I'm gonna lose this amount of money, or something like that. And it was very, very motivating for me. But I was a runner, and there was no app that kind of incorporated running into this. I was like, boom. App idea, business idea, right? So that's how the inspiration struck me, which is what a lot of people kind of go through. Kind of like you, you're like, you know what? This would be really cool for like an app or a tool or software, right? So the next stage was, okay, well, I don't know how to code, so maybe I'll teach myself to code. I'll just go and take some classes, right? That lasted about two weeks. And I was like, no way am I doing this. This is not for me. Not my thing. If you can do it, more power to you. So then I was like, well, maybe I can just pay some people, right? So I went on and I found all these freelancers and agencies, and you wouldn't believe I got quotes of like a quarter million dollars. I was working a $12 an hour job at the time. So I was like, yeah, that ain't gonna work. One thing led to another, and I found this world of no code. And I was like, holy crap. Like, I could actually bring this thing to life. And I ultimately did, and I launched it and it was very successful. I actually shut it down eventually because I got into this agency space, so the app doesn't even exist any longer. But it. It was really cool. Cause I built a skill and that's how I got into doing all this. But I tell that because that's how it starts with a lot of people, is you have this spark of idea and then you kind of. One thing leads to another, and then you're like, well, how do I actually bring this to life?

Yeah, and I love that you said that, because I love teaching that concept of you. Just what you said was, I learned the skill, and so then I was able to do whatever, right? So even though it's not so living, you learned how it is. I kind of do that with my community building strategy where I'm like, don't get so caught up in what it is because you're learning the skill, and if you stop and you're waiting for six months, then you're going to be no better off than you were. If you just make a pretend group, you just learn the skills while you're building it and then when you actually get the more clarity, then you actually will know what you're doing. So. Yeah.

Yeah, very cool. Okay, so. All right, so let's, let's dive into this thing. So now you, from what I kind of know about this, this is a.

It'S almost like a directory for finding groups. It's almost like the Facebook group part of Facebook, where I can search and kind of have a search to find what I'm looking for. And then it would show things based on results. Is that kind of right? Or I, you know, maybe, maybe you, you give me the, the ultimate vision of.

Yeah, and it's, this is good because I'm still trying to identify what would be the coolest thing to do. But in my mind, because I'm, I've been helping people do this. Right. And so right now I have a spreadsheet of I'll just kind of talk a lot and then it'll come into something. Okay. So basically when I do a dating challenge or I do a two hour cocktail party challenge or go to events, whatever, the challenge is going, oh, the bucket list challenge was another one where I give a dare and I'm like, okay, now in order to travel the world, do the thing is a good group to be in, but you actually want to be in a travel group also, right? So then I'm then looking with them and I'm like, okay, let's go on meet up. What travel groups are there? Or let's go to the library or the community center, whatever is near them. So I want it to be like in person or online. That's number one. Number two, I want it to be around a goal. So like if it's travel or if it's business or if it's a leadership group or a business group or whatever it is. So I almost want there to be a goal. So I don't know if it would start with a survey or something. I'm not sure. Some kind of, like what kind of is your goal and help them identify their goal first. I mean, I technically do have a formula to help people achieve their goals. So potentially I could work that into it where it's like, do you want that goal? And then it almost. Then I mean, this is crazy. This probably is code. I'm always going to go over the top and then we can slim it down. So I'm like, oh, would be cool. Because then they can say, this is what I'm looking for. And then it pulls up the five possible things. Or like you Said just really simple just to get started. And if I think if I'm channeling my inner Alex, what he said was he's like just kind of focus on the nuts and bolts of it when you start so then it doesn't get all sideways. But yeah.

Yeah. Well, I will tell you that matching thing based on desires and goals and stuff is actually not that difficult to pull off technically. Technically inside of. Inside of the tool. So yeah, that's definitely doable. I've done that many times. We do that with a lot with fitness apps. Right. Like when they were like, hey, I want to lose weight and I want to, you know, focus on two workouts a week and I eat this much and whatever and it kind of curates things to you. So. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, cool. Oh, I have to let you know, this is so funny. So Niyama Ashang's here. He's been an expert on a lot of my panels. So you guys might want to connect after because he definitely needs to do some kind of no code portal. And then Paul also just mentioned he's a best selling author where he goes around everywhere and basically like helps people publish books and then eventually he does book tours and stuff. So it's kind of exciting because I feel like I'm seeding all these future.

Yeah. By this conversation. So anyway. Yeah, so that's cool. I didn't actually think that was possible. So. Okay, so that's where we would start from is. And then I think people also. So one of the things I like about being with people that have a common goal is that there are. It is diverse. There's all different backgrounds and beliefs and it's. The goal is what's in common. Right. So there's already that thinks it would be cool to have an age kind of demographic. But then there's another part of me that's like I feel like that could be over complicating it and it doesn't really matter how old you are. Is it more about the goal? So anyway, that's something I don't know either.

I do remember you mentioning that with Alex. Yeah. And the thing that kind of gets me with this is just what you said before. It's like, so you do your challenge, people find their thing that they're going to do. Then then like you said, that kind of leads into the next problem of like, okay, what specifically focused group am I going to find it? But then you mentioned something that was very key. You mentioned Eventbrite meetup. There's probably all kinds of other Ones out there.

Yeah.

The problem that I think someone runs into with that is that one, you might not even know, like me, like I would. I could probably name those two. And then that probably it like Facebook or maybe a third one. Are there other platforms where I haven't even heard of that Your solution could present me. And then two, those being all in one place. Those being all in one place, I think is super powerful because that gives you an edge automatically over your competition, over all these other pieces of competition. And you can say, hey, look, we have. You can find people from meetup, things on Eventbrite, things on Facebook, groups, things wherever. And it brings in that one. Like that gives you such a marketable position.

Could you do that?

Yeah, I mean, you could do it with.

Well, so it's called like APIs. They're. They're basically like they kind of pull in, you know, information and stuff to start. You could probably do a lot of that manually, like kind of like Alex said, keeping it very mvp, you know. Cause sometimes you might find like, okay, there's all these groups on Eventbrite, but maybe Eventbrite doesn't publish that information and kind of allow you to pull from it sometimes, you know, like, so that's just an idea. I know like some people kind of come up with that. But that kind of, I think because again, a lot of people get lost in like, I want to build this feature, I want to build this feature, I want to build this feature and you lose sight of the actual problem you're solving, you know?

Yeah, it's such a good point. Yeah, it's really good point. Yeah. So, yeah, so basically it's like an aggregated directory and then also where I can add people, add groups to it. So it sounds like I would have control with something you could. Let's kind of like where something you could help me create. Whether it's an API that gets pulled in from different things that are already out there, but it puts it all in one place. And I can also just enter data myself and say, okay, I've maybe people submit applications. Like, I have a group, right? Or on my TEDX Talk, I'm having people start to do this where they're commenting what their group is. So then I can like maybe even enter it off of that potentially. Or at least have someone to reach out to, to say, okay, you have a group. Let's have you come in there.

Yeah, because that's the second level is, you know, do you foresee this being something where people are actually conducting and Hosting these groups and the actual interaction is taking place inside of the platform.

I don't want platform. Yeah. I just want a directory. Yeah.

Okay. So it would link out to these things.

Well, yeah, so I'm just looking for. I think I did ask Alex if I should do like reviews or whatever on there and he was saying don't in the beginning because unless they asked for it, that was just something I thought could be interesting. But I feel like there's enough social platforms out there that I think if I'm just like, this is a resource to find a group. So like, okay, I want to start running and I live in San Diego and maybe it, maybe it does have divorced people, you know, like over. Because I think that is valuable if I'm looking for like a specific niche. It'd be good to have checkboxes just like you would a dating app, I guess. Right. And then if there are none, then it's fine. But if I'm able to somehow do that. Oh, you know what? Be really cool. Oh, I love this. Thank you. Is. Is there almost like what are the things that you. What do you connect on? This is funny. This is my audience building strategy. I'm. I'm basically doing it for this. This is so funny how everything always kind of like connects back to the thing that you do. But like what are the things that you really connect to? Right. Or identify as? And so for some, it could be you're single or it could be that you're over 50. Right. Like you would. You're not looking for that. It's almost like liquidating app. You like fill out your profile and so those are your things. So when you do look for. I just thought a class pass, I wonder if it'd be kind of how that is something like that. But that's more classes, which I think is one piece of it. I'd want to stream that stuff in. But anyway, that kind of idea, right, where you're putting your. Your profile and this is who I am. Okay, now I'm looking for the group because I know sometimes I'll be looking for stuff for people. This is when I get annoyed because I'm doing. A lot of times I'm doing like a group zoom. And I'm so excited because I'm like, great, let's implement your dating dares. Let's go find your. Your guy. Right. Or whatever it is. And then we're looking and then out of most of them are online. Online, it's like it's not as many in person as you would think that there should be when you're looking for stuff. And that's why I then created this whole other spreadsheet where I'm like, okay, go to the library, go to the community center, blah, blah, blah, all these different things. Because there are. It's all out there. It's just all mixed. Like you said, it's like some are here and some are there. And I've even done reverse engineering where it's like, okay, if you find a group that you've liked, now let's Google the name of it and see what other sites it comes up on, so then you can at least find the platforms where those things live. So I've done that kind of stuff before, but I guess it is. I guess what I'm validating is that this is a legit problem, because every time I've tried to help someone, it always just take a little bit longer than I would want to find it. It's not as easy as you think.

Yeah, yeah.

So I think if it's like your profile, is there a way to do that where I almost figure out, what are the things that matter? And then I have them fill out their dating profile, but for a group profile, what do you care about? And then what are the things you want to work on? And then from there, maybe it just says, even, like, because maybe it's just a social club that they want to find. Like, I want to be. What do you want more of in your life? You check that and then. Then it says, what group do you want to find? And then somehow the keywords kind of match it.

Yeah. So that's like a tagging system, right? It's very similar. Like, you remember when Clubhouse came out?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

For those of you who remember that, it was kind of like when you started and you could always change it as you would go. There was like a whole big selection thing of, okay, I'm interested in the NFL and MLB and podcasting and politics and whatever. And then like, that feed is curated based on those selections. Right. So, yeah, that. That does take a little bit of implementation to kind of do. And then obviously, the more broad you go, yeah, more it kind of incorporates and kind of, you know, compounds on itself. But it's not a super complicated thing to. To do. But it. Once it's. Once it's done correctly, it works really, really well, because then that lends itself to what we do. A lot of times in the fitness stuff is the recommendation section. Right. So you can kind of have Like a database where it's like just search all groups with no tagging, no anything, no preferences, no other filters. It's just open search. Right. But then there's a recommendation section that after you go through that and you click your interest. Okay. Then it sorts through the records that are already in there and it says, hey, based on this, you would probably like this, you know.

Yeah, that'd be good. And then my.

Yeah, it's almost like I like to do standup comedy. And so since you like stand up comedy, you might also like improv or this whatever Toastmasters thing kind of.

Yeah.

Is it labels it. I love that because then you're like. It's almost like what I said in my talk where it's like you have the mother. Like my group directory is kind of like the mothership because it's suggesting.

Things that maybe you didn't know about before. Because once you do one thing, you want to do everything in that same Jenner. You don't want to just stay in that one group. You want to keep expanding and growing too.

Yeah. And another thing that just comes to mind for me with this too is again, you know, we don't want to go feature crazy, but one thing that I think would be super useful based of like, if I'm using the platform would be a notification system of like, hey, this new group, you know, just got added to the platform that is pro, like podmatch does this. Podmatch does this really well. I'll get an email that says, hey, Dan, this new person just joined Pod Match. They think, would they be a great fit for your show? And I click on it and it takes me into Pod Match and then it's like, hey, this person's an AI expert. And they talk about this and they talk about the other thing and I'm like, great, come on the show. And something like that I at least think would be super useful. That might not be a day one thing, but that's a very useful thing that I can see being. I think that would be a fan favorite for sure. You know, because you want that stuff, that's why you're joining. Something like that. It's like, show me. It's like, it's like a Realtor. It's like when I'm looking for houses, I put in my, in my input and I want to get recommendations, you know?

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of. Right now I'm thinking about. This is so annoying because I don't want to start another group right now, but I'M thinking about starting a group in San Diego because I want to get out more and I want to go hiking and I want to do more of these things. And it's just too annoying to find a group that does it. So I'm like, oh, for me, it's easier to just start my own group. And so anyway, the point is, is it's like if you have something that's notifying you and saying, oh, this exists, then I don't have to be thinking about it. It just tells me about it, which is actually really cool. Yeah, I like that. Okay, so then my. I'll tell you my. I think you heard it from the live that I did with him. But just to. In case there's questions about it, my monetization strategy is it's kind of cool. It added another layer when I realized, oh, there's actually I could make money because at first I do things for fun and then. But if I'm putting money in it, investing stuff with you, then obviously there has to be something attached. And I'm like, oh, it's full. It's list building for both the people that want to join and then the companies. But I have this find your voice challenge, which for the person is amazing because it helps them identify what their goal is, which helps them then identify what kind of group they want to start. Because I get them to tap into who they are, what they want, what their dreams are, and then they're also getting out of their comfort zone through the challenge. And so it sort of gets them to want to take bigger risks. So that's really cool. From an individual side standpoint. And then from the company standpoint, if they put find your voice into their community or with their employees, then it's like a goal activator and also a space creator for a space safe community. So I don't know how to work all that in. Or if it's just like, oh, if you want to explore this find your voice challenge, like, or. And then do a badge. Like, this is a certified find your voice. And I don't know what I'll call it. I might change the name. But a certified do the thing. Maybe that's it. Certified do the thing community or something. So that if they went through, if their community did that, then they at least have some kind of mark. Because even if the person doesn't go through it in the community, if the person knows the community did it, it shows that they're immediately a safe space because it's a very vulnerable and open Kind of challenge. That makes sense. Yeah.

So you're almost talking about they would almost be like affiliates for your challenge, kind of.

No, it's like they'd be my customers. Yeah. So but potentially maybe it doesn't have to be in the. Maybe there's no paywall or anything, but it just, it's just like a thing like we have this available maybe. I don't know. But so, so pretty much think about like you joining Meetup, right? And then somehow, maybe it's in emails too. Somehow, maybe it would be in there like, oh, are you struggling to find your group or would you want to get more out of your comfort zone? Then do the find your voice challenge. So that would be for the actual person joining. That's one approach. And then the company or the community or the group approach is do you want to show your members that your community is a safe space to speak up and to share and to be open? Then you want to do this for your community so that you could get the do the thing community badge or whatever it is, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And that's the other thing that I'll just say kind of, you know, keeping in mind that we're all. I keep forgetting we're, we're live on this because I'm just. I have you on zoom, so it's actually kind of nice for me. But the one of the cool things about, is about building something like this is you can, you can trigger basically backend things, which is kind of what. What I help build with people as well too. Because you're kind of getting to this point now where you see like, okay, I'm gonna have people signing up for this now. I need to keep them engaged. And you know, they're not just, you know, they're not gonna stay on the app forever or stay on the, you know, they're not gonna be on. Have it pulled up all day every day. So how do I re. Engage them? How do I get them involved in sequences and automations and things like that? And we have a whole backend system to do that. So as soon as they come in, you could fire automations and trigger different workflows and things like that. Which is really nice because it just is like, it's like a, hey, come on back, check it out. You know, it's. That's a really, That's a really neat thing that not a lot of people like because it's you. You're building a business around this thing. You're not just building the thing to have the Thing you're building. Like you said, it's a monetization.

I usually build the thing to build the thing, and then it. Then the money gets itself figured out after. But this, it's like more intentional about because I'd be putting the money in. Yeah, that's cool. Like that and think about that. And then. Yeah, I was thinking as you were talking, it's kind of cool when I see you guys here because it helps me think about specific things, so. Hey, Alison. So Allison has a tarot community where she does these really cool tarot events. And so, like. Like, how would anyone find that? Right? And then Rennie, he's the founder. He's not here right now, but I'm just thinking of him now because I just saw Paul. Paul has a group published Speak and Prosper, where he hasn't does meetups yet. They're online, but that would be a group, right? And then Rennie is someone that I've had come in my community for that. He has Shut up and Write, which is like these local meetups at these coffee stores and no one knows about. He's got hundreds of thousands of members all over the world. But whenever I tell anyone about it, they're like, oh, my gosh, thank you so much for telling me about Shut up and Write. Now I've written my book and it's like, how do we put that all? So anyway, I'm just kind of like revalidating that. There's all these amazing organizations. When I think about volunteer, too, I'm thinking, like, volunteer groups right now. There is a place for it. But I just feel like anytime I've wanted to look for something there, I always end up having to really spend more time than it needed. And so, yeah, well.

And I'll just give you a little idea, too. There was an app we built a while ago that we did something very similar with this. And this is something that you could do as an extra monetization strategy is for any. Maybe it's free to host your group on the app or kind of have it listed in the directory, but you can pay for promotion. You could pay for a priority listing. You can actually send out a weekly newsletter and have a promotional section in there to say, hey, here you are. You know, and that's sponsorship levels, right? To say, hey, for, you know, $500, you get. You get sponsored of our whole thing. Or like, you get a live in our group. Or you, like, you. You could. You have so many other assets that you could build into this to monetize.

True.

Because that's like you said, that that's very, that resonates a lot. Like you can have the greatest group or event ever, but if no one knows about it, does it matter? That's a tough thing. That's a, that's what a lot of people struggle with.

I also think of the person that's been like eight because I've seen these people got to start a book challenge and they've been aching to write a book for 10 years. And if it's just stuck in your head, you're not going to write the book. Let's either you have to spend $50,000 to pay someone, right. To pay someone to write the book. Or you could join a group like Paul's group, the Publish, speak and prosper or go to the shut up and write thing. And now all of a sudden you're writing your book. Cause you're with people with the shared goal. Right. That's the thing. That's the whole secret. Yeah. And so it's also my point is, is the company is sad because they don't have the person, but then also the person is sad because they're aching to do this goal that they don't know why they can. And it's just because they're not with people. Yeah.

And like I just told you, I was at an event for two days and like I'm very lit up around, man, these people are doing.

Yeah.

So many cool things. And like that's who my people are. I never would have thought they'd be my people.

But could I, can I, could I side tangent with you for a second and then I'll. And then we can go back because I want to find out pricing and all that if you're, I don't. If you're open to doing that publicly because we can side tangent on what you just said.

Yeah.

Okay. Did you get a chance to watch my TEDX talk?

I did, yeah. It was, it was a little while ago, so I, I'm not fresh. Yeah.

So basically the whole idea is this. It's like instead of your normal friends and family being the one that help you get the goal, which is what a lot of people think it's like, I'm gonna depend on. Let's just use running. That's the easiest example. So I'm gonna run a half marathon. Right. I have really cool friends. Very supportive and very encouraging. But if none of them run, then there's no way I'm gonna run that half marathon. I've gotta join a Running group. Right. And so I want to somehow connect what you just did with your event to people that are running those events with my TEDx Talk to Show them that they could use the concept of my people as a way to promote their event. I'm just curious if you even understand what I just said because I just spent like an hour in my mastermind and they didn't clear. But like for example, PodFest, I talked to them this morning and I think they're going to send an email. I was like, you guys have PodFest coming in January and people think that they can't afford podfests or they don't have the time to go. Not everyone. It's obviously a really popular event that people want to go to, but there is a percentage of people that are holding back because they don't see the value of what you just said by being in the room. But when they understand the concept of my people. No, you like, it's like a law now. Like we have to be around people because of what you just said, that creative idea, all of that. So anyway, I'm still working on explaining it and you just said it really good for me to be able to. So I don't know if anything, just any reflection you have on that would be.

Good.

No, I mean, I do see that it is good to have to be very frank and honest with you. I've. This journey of me being in business has been a very long and lonely road and my wife's in the medical field so we've moved every few years and we've kind of. It got very hard to have friends. It's very hard to make friends when you're an adult. So I've been consciously trying to get myself into more communities even though I know I. I'm like an introverted extrovert. I'm an extroverted introvert. I. I love. I could sit here all day with my headphones on and not talk to a single person and perfectly happy. But I can also come on lives like this and like do the damn thing. You know what I mean? So I'm an extroverted introvert. But like, you know, my wife and I, we just joined a couples group with our church and that has been incredibly awesome for us. Something that we were just like so thankful we were able to do. Then coming to these events, I joined a technology specific community in Pittsburgh here which has been awesome. I went to a big event last Friday. Just being around all these people talking about AI and a couple people talked about no code. And. And just all this stuff. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, I didn't know. I just needed. It's so cool to. Because when you. A lot of us are on this path kind of alone.

Yeah.

And it's cool to be like, no, there's other weirdos out there like me. You know, there's a feeling, I think that's. That's innately human about that. That's like. It's like a. It's like a form of validation that we all kind of seek.

Yeah. It's so true. That's what I. Why I'm so passionate about this. So let's say you were going to have a no code event and you understand this concept of my people and why it's important to be around other people that care about no code, which to me means if you care about no code, that means you're wanting to put something out in the world. You're wanting it to be relatively simple and not crazy. And you're pulling in people that are also some risk takers because that's a little scary to do something like that. Right. And so. And I'm sure there's other things in there, but what would be a way to. Just for them to come to your event and if you were able to use my people as. You don't want to do it alone. You want to be in here. Just curious if you have one little thing you can just reflect on there.

Yeah. I mean, I actually tried this a couple of years ago. Then I never really went super deep into it, but I used to do, like you mentioned, challenges as well. I used to do a challenge. I don't. I haven't done it anymore. But that was. I was. It was really. I was very new into the. I didn't really. I couldn't really nail down what I was offering, what I was doing with it. But I think a lot of people do, they call them hackathons now, where it's like a weekend to just come up with an idea and learn the basics and put duct tape something together that kind of works and then you can go from there. Something like that would be really cool. And then even something like that, like a three day, five day type of thing that's like zero to MVP type of thing. Like, I think that's the biggest hurdle that a lot of people face is like, because once you get through that and you kind of learn the skill and you learn how to do this, then you start to see what's possible. Then you start to be like, oh, okay, I could really do this, you.

Know, Okay, I love it. Okay, so now the next. Can I ask too? What would be the questions I would want to ask my audience to understand what their pain points are now in terms, because I know what mine are when I help people. But are there any questions that would be good for me to ask them? So then as you're building this out, I'm able to dial in on their pain. I think the one is what I said where there's just too many places to look. So that I call that it's a. You know, people say confused mind doesn't buy. I say a confused mind doesn't do. Because it's like, if it's too hard for me to find it, it's like, forget it. I'm just gonna go sit on the couch.

Yeah, I mean, again, I wouldn't even. You wouldn't even have to bring up the software or the app or you could mention something like. Something like I might say would be like, hey, I'm thinking about putting together this platform to finally help people with, you know, finding the right group for whatever they're trying to do. What open ended questions, right. What do you think would be useful in something like that? Like a very broad section because that, that gets there. It's almost like this, you know, when somebody asks you like, hey, how can I help? It's not can I help you? It's how can I help you? Your brain automatically thinks, well, what do I need help with? Like, oh, help me with this. Right?

Yeah.

So something like that's really good. And then specifically is just, I would probably get very, very specific around like, do you usually join a lot of groups? Are you already a part a lot of groups? Do you get results out of groups? Do you have trouble finding the right one? How many times have you joined the right one and found out that it's not the right one? You had to join five before you found the right one. Things like that I might ask, because those are going to lead you down to features like the recommendation stuff or the notification stuff or things like that. So those are just a couple off the top of my head I can think of. I like that we have a very good tool called ChatGPT that can also give you a lot of things as well too.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. If we did this to. Could I have people fill out an application to join or whatever it is, survey application, and then it automatically goes in. So I don't have to deal with inputting people manually.

Yeah, yeah, we've done that before. You can build what's called, like a wait list.

Okay.

So we can build. It's like basically a very generic landing page that's just like, hey, sign up for early access. And then they opt in. And then it's like, hey, would you also take a minute to fill out the survey for feedback or for, you know, market research, recall, something like that. So you could build something like that and then it would capture all those. All those questions.

Okay, okay. Okay. So what would be the next steps if I was like, okay, yeah, I want to do this.

Okay. I mean, do you have a timeline on when you would want to bring this to life? I mean, I asked this because some people are like, I want this tomorrow. Some people are like, I don't really care.

No, I'm pretty. I'm pretty open. My thing, the way I work is I get a lot done, but as long as I have it moving, then I'm good. Does that make sense? So in my mind, you immediately gave me an action that if I wanted, I have a masterclass I'm promoting next week, so I probably won't do it before that's done. But I'm like, oh, I could just create a waiting list. I didn't think about that. And just at least. I at least have one thing I could start with. Right. And then maybe ask a question when they join the waiting list sitting. Like, what would you want to see out of this? Just so at least get immediate feedback. And then. So to answer your question is that's a great first step for me. So now when we get. Then if I have a second step, then it's like, I'm good as long as something's moving. So I'm not in a rush. As long as I can move the needle. Cause I'm learning as I go, if that makes sense.

Actually, how we do a lot of projects anymore is it's called a milestone approach.

Oh, I like that.

And you almost kind of take to say, we're going to have. We're going to scope this project and it's going to be this big, cool thing we're building for you. We might break it down into, like, five milestones, and we'll say, like, milestone one is we have the waitlist system set up and built. Okay, great. Number two is the generic designs of what this might look like and how it might go. Okay. The third is an actual. Maybe we start building the signup process and the tagging system. And capturing all that. And then the fourth would be like, let's start inputting data and how groups are actually going to be found in the search system and whatever. And then five would be, let's test it and launch it. Those are just five off the top of my head that I came up with. But that's usually very cool because like you said, if you try to. I always like the analogy of eating an elephant. You can't eat an elephant bite. You know, you gotta.

Oh, it's so much better to. Yeah, to just piece it up. Yeah, it's really for my mind, too. Something else is coming to my mind also. I'm just gonna say it to see where it lands. But so I'm also working on. So I help people build online communities. That's my kind of, like, main thing that I'm doing. But I. Is that your dog?

All right? Yeah, he's just gonna scream.

But I now have realized the find your voice challenge that I've done for people, and then I'm starting to do it in people's communities. It's also an amazing thing for companies to help develop leaders because it gives people a chance to speak up in a group. And I'm almost thinking, gosh, because I owned a staffing company for 20 years and I remember I wasn't. I couldn't figure out how I was going to connect it to this group directory. And I just think I figured it out. But I used to get approached by all these companies that would. They had kind of like a group directory, but not really some kind of. It was like I'd have to remember what it was. My brain isn't getting that right now, but it was almost something that I could give to employees to also that could say, okay, now your company got you in this company group. Now I'm join this other group. It was like a VIP access pass that they had to this thing. So anyway, I'm saying it out loud because I don't know where it lands, but I don't want to forget it for the recording sake. But it was almost like they. The company would pay. I remember we paid a few thousand dollars a month to give our employees access to this thing that was like VIP access to go to like, these different memberships. You know what I mean? Does that make sense?

Yeah. And I mean, I think part of what you. You could even do is since you're already an authority in the space, is there's. There's always an upsell for any group that does join you to say hey, you need help getting this set up? White glove service. There's always something you could do for that too. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what that might look like for you or what, but.

Okay.

Yeah, a lot of different things you could do.

Okay. Okay, so next steps.

Next steps. Well, yeah, we could go through. I actually got a cool thing we could do. Can you let me share my screen?

Yeah, sure, I'd love to.

So what I'll do is I'll walk you through this thing I have called. Hold on, let me put it. I have like 9,000 tabs open, so it'll probably be better to. So this is called my app cost calculator.

Oh, okay.

All right. So I built this. This is a no code app. Okay. You got. Do you see it?

Not yet, but I see. Oh, there we go. Yeah.

Okay. How much does cost to make an app? You see it? Okay, so basically this is something I built that is. It's very simple, very straightforward, and it basically gives a ballpark idea of what you can expect. So for any of you guys watching, you can go to our site, you can do this for free.

That's cool.

This is really, really neat because I just want to pre frame this. You know how many times I've been to different sites and I've put in their calculator stuff and all they do is they want to get you on an email thing. Like you literally have to input your all kinds of information and then wait for them to get on a call to like, oh, then we'll give you the quote. This does ask for your email, but only so we can email you a copy of it. So it's not like, hey, you get your quote when you book a call. Like it's.

Yeah, yeah, that's cool then. Yeah. Anyway, I like that you took something that was annoying and you made it. Yeah, yeah.

So, okay, so this, this is actually a part I need to improve. So you can't pick multiple of these. Although we can build it to be all three at once. Usually we just add a little bit extra. If you want to do it as like an Apple and Android and that kind of stuff for you, I would probably start this as a web app. Yeah, there's less messing around with Apple and Android and you can also make it mobile too.

Okay.

Okay. Size of the app.

Based on what you've said, it might actually fall in this medium category.

Okay.

This is just with page size, more than seven pages tends to be a larger app. This doesn't really make a huge difference I'm probably gonna say let's just go with medium. We'll go with medium. And then for the level of UI and design, you have minimum, basic or professional. I usually just go with professional with people. Because.

When you're putting something out there, you don't really want it to look basic or minimum, you know?

Yeah.

Unless it's just something for you, you know. So I definitely say professional. Now this is where we have fun. We have the app features you can scroll through. So we got this whole list of different things. Okay. So I'll just kind of walk this through. If you see any, shout them out. But this is usually what I do. So I would say probably people would sign up with their email and password. Yeah, I don't usually do the social signups a lot, even though you can. LinkedIn's usually probably. I mean, Facebook's probably the easiest. Or Google. But I usually leave those because those are actually a lot of messing around for an MVP activity feed or social wall. So this would be something where they would actually see like newly added ones or be able to post and do different things like that. I don't think you're looking for something like that.

Right.

Okay. People aren't probably going to need to do.

I'm not going to do this now because I'm going to make it go crazy. So it's. It is weird. I don't want. I'm like, keep talking myself out of this. So I help people build online communities. Right now I'm using Facebook, but it's platform agnostic. But technically, I guess if it had an activity feed social wall, they wouldn't need to go to Facebook. They could just use this website. Right. But that makes it crazy, right? Doesn't it? Because then I'm like, then we're in an app where you're.

Well, yeah. And remember, just like this could be one or the other. You don't have to make it a social wall where there's posting and commenting and chaos. Like, it could literally just be an activity feed that's, you know, not engageable.

Okay.

You could do that.

Yeah. Okay.

You know what? We can click it. We can click it just to see. You can always remove this stuff when you're done so you can play with it too.

There's the ratings. That's so funny. Should we do ratings? Tell me what you think about ratings. Okay, we'll see what they say.

Okay. I did click profiles. You mentioned profile before. And tags. We did say tags. Search feature, definitely. Yeah, we'll wait on ratings. Or reviews. Dashboard is probably not needed for this because it's more of a search thing. Privacy settings doesn't really apply to this. It is custom, but that doesn't really apply here. App icon design is like an add on we have. I usually leave that because you can get that done on like chatgpt for free. Now. Cloud syncing doesn't really apply.

Barcodes, maps and the geolocation.

Oh, you can definitely do that. So that's basically a way to. You could show like a map view if there's actual like events that have physical locations. I think a lot of online groups aren't going to have that though. But if it's like a running group.

Online and in person. Allison said ratings are a very personal thing. Can ruin someone. And Michelle is. Oh yeah, I agree. That's what I was too. Michelle, I'll just ask. Do you create dating apps too? If you could create a date?

I mean I never have, but I have all the tools to be able to do it. Yeah, we have a cool like flashcards, we have a. I built a Tinder like type of swipe right, swipe left type of thing. You do? Yeah. You can do that. Yeah. Okay. So calendar integration, I don't really think that's applicable. Reservations. You don't want people to really message each other because we said we're taking them off the platform. Right. Forums or commenting, that might be something that you could do. But again that's kind of turning it into a social network.

Yeah.

Now just to keep in, to keep on this thought, I have built very similar like tools like to Slack where you could build like a community chat.

That could also be a down the road thing if people aren't or whatever.

As you're talking because I am starting to get overwhelmed. And so this is exactly what happens and how we could all talk.

That's good feedback. Everything.

Yeah. Is because I'm like, oh my gosh. Because it's like now I'm like, oh, do I want that? Do I want that? Right. But it sounds like, like going back to like Alex's point. It's like the minimum viable is. I just need the. This is good. I like seeing what's there. But it's almost like as a baseline is this something people want where like you could find the shut up and write and you could find the published speak and props prosper and you can find the running group. Right. So in that. And then it kind of doesn't matter. Right. Then it all can be added and evolved. Right.

As we go exactly, exactly. And remember, I keep clicking on these because you can take these off at the end. It's not the end of the world. Like, it will update, so you can always take that off. Social sharing is something that's not very hard to do. It's like you click that little share button and then you can tweet it or text it or Facebook it or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, I like that. Because then they can share the. Yeah, the app and the. Or the website and the group. Right, yeah.

Because all it does is bring them back. People back to the app. So, yeah, no shopping cart. There's no payment processing.

Payment processing fee. There isn't one. Right. Because ClassPass has one because they charge a monthly fee to join these classes or whatever.

But that would be if you wanted to, like, actually accept payments and do stripe payments.

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. The only thing would be kind of cool is if the company charged, if it was a charge for their group, if somehow it could be done in the app. But that complicates it, huh?

Could a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah.

The only other thing I see on here, Obviously we mentioned APIs, which might not be something you need for the. The initial piece, because you could just hand do everything. I mean, this is really. When you're talking about having hundreds and thousands of groups and, like, kind of going crazy. Yeah, this is expensive, too. But then the only other thing that you would have to probably think about is the approval and moderation. You know, like, would you want to approve every group that came on and wanted to post in the app, or would you just want to allow people to just post their group?

Yeah, yeah, I don't know. That's a good question.

My advice would probably be to start with an approval moderation piece, and then you could always automate that down the road. That's kind of where we went through a phase where I built an app where we did, like, challenges and stuff like that. And we had an approval process in it, and it was very simple. Like, they would come into a queue and then you would just click approve. And then, like, it was listed. Like, it wasn't very. It wasn't very complicated to do. It's just an extra process to build.

Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So then let's. Yeah, let's just leave all that and then we'll just click next. And this is. We do have to say this.

What's your email again? Or, you know, you have to give it if it's live.

Oh, that's fine. See, and just, you know, Michelle, I Think might reach out to you. She said she's working with a client right now and she wants a dating app, so.

Okay.

You get a status. The thing, formula.com.

Do the thing, formula.com. okay. Are you ready for this?

Okay. Oh, no, I'm not ready.

Are you not ready?

No, I'm good.

Hey, you wanted to go live.

Hey, I'm good. I know. I'm good. I'm good.

All right. All right.

It's like, unwind, unwind, unwind.

$4509.

Are you serious? That's it?

Yeah.

That's crazy.

We're pretty conservative on our features, you know, and I actually did. I said the medium and all that kind of stuff too. So you could do hide, you know, you could do breakdown. And this is where you can take stuff out. So if you actually want. You can't really move. Put these back in. But if you wanted to, like, take out the social sharing, it kind of gives you, like, what these features, it's like a rough ballpark cost of what the feature, you know, costs. And then the only other thing to remember is that if you did ever want to take this onto the Apple and Android stores, there'd be extra things in that too, because that's, you know, just kind of adapting it.

So much more money.

Yeah, that's kind of the process that I went down when I was like, they were like, yeah, $250,000, and I was like, get out of here. No, I mean, a lot of our projects that we do are actually 10k or below. That's actually the bulk of what we do. We'll do. You know, we do them all over the place. But that's actually where most of the project prices come in for. The work that we do is actually 10k and below, which is really cool because you can get a startup going and, you know, with this, your idea, it's very. It's very honed, it's very simple. So it shouldn't require a whole lot. It shouldn't require a hundred thousand dollars to get up and going. You know what I mean? Like, it really shouldn't. So, yeah.

So it's kind of interesting. That's amazing. Thank you. Because I would have never imagined it to be that, which is. It's great because I've even thought of doing. I'm like, now all my dreams come back to life. I wanted to do an accountability that would be an app to help people be accountable. But then I also. Because, like, with a Facebook group, with the communities I build, a lot of Times people are having people do actions, and there could be one layer of accountability that happens, and then I'm like, oh, man. And then if I could white label this app and it would go to each person that I run a community, and then they can use it as another layer. Anyway, that's a story for another day. But the point is, I've had a lot of these ideas that I'm excited about. So now that I know you, I'm like, oh, my gosh. So there's part of me that's ready to go now, because I know just from the learning of it, it would be worth it to go through the process and, like you said, build the skills so I can even understand how your mind works for us to create this. But then there's another part of me that still feels like. And maybe it doesn't matter, but I'm talking. I'm saying it out loud to see what you say. I'm still not clear on the group, because I even said it in my talk. I'm like, really? It's a group of people. So it is an event. It is a group. It is a class. It's a club. It's a forum. So you see, what I mean is, like, I'm still. The idea of group is still kind of like. It's. It's really what you experienced at that event. It's the sh. It's being with people that have a shared goal. Because that's what's important is because a lot of people, they're in their box, they're in their couch, they're with their normal friends and family, and it's very hard to go outside of that because we're comfortable, you know, and until we have that big goal and we want to learn something, and then we go to the big conference, and then you're like, oh, my gosh, Other people think like me. What? But the whole time, I thought it was crazy or whatever it is that we say. And so it really is the event. And so that's the piece that I still am, like, fuzzy on is like, what? Actually, then I mentioned class fast. I'm like, technically, I don't know if that would. Cause now I'm going crazy. You know what I mean? That's really.

Let me. Let me. Let me break down for you. So you. Before you go. Before you go too off the rails at this. Like, stay focused on one thing.

Okay?

You know, you think about. So I almost can. There was an app that I saw a long time ago when I didn't have a truck and I needed a truck to move some stuff. And there was, it's almost like an Uber for trucks type of thing, right? And I found it and I'm like, sweet, I downloaded it. Well, they're only available out where you guys are, California, Nevada, Arizona. But then as I signed up for it, I got emails every once in a while, said, hey, we're now live in Missouri. Hey, we're now live in Texas. Hey, we're now live in Ohio, whatever. And they kind of move this way. And I think if you wanted to build this to be all encompassing for all of this stuff, eventually one, you need to show that like there's actually going to be a demand for it. But I would start with like groups and okay, the hell with everything else, right? About the other stuff, only about everything else. And then you, then you would say, hey now we have events. Hey now we have conferences. Hey now like and you could, you just. And all you have to do is basically this is where the beauty of software development comes in, is you can have the public facing app that's out there that just is promoting groups and doing all this stuff and you're just killing it and rocking it over here while in the background, you know, you and, and hopefully Dan are working on building the events piece. And then you can promote that and say, hey, on November 1st we're going live with events and now we can promote that out to everything else. You just open up a whole new thing and then kind of have a roadmap for those things going on. So again, it's that elephant analogy. Don't, don't try to do everything. Just do one, one thing at a time. Do it well.

Yeah, I like that, I like that. And then my other question is there's some of those groups, let's say someone wants to join a book club, right? And they meet once a month or something, right? And I'm just remembering another one I heard about. I need to look at it, the Invited app. I don't even know what it is, but somebody had mentioned that to me. But anyway, so there's a book club, let's just say, but they charge $30 a month. And then maybe there's a membership group and they do a social club. They do like social events. And actually my friend, she just started a social club in Dubai because she just moved there and she was like, I want to meet people. And so what do we do? We start groups, right? And so it's a really cool social club, but she's charging like $80 a month. So how does that. Does it just show the price kind of thing? Or again, we're trying to start. So, like, thanks for calming me down, because that's the next place my mind. Yeah, yeah.

I would put a simple tag on it. Basically, when you're adding a group, you would say paid or free. And all it would do is if it's marked as paid, it would show as paid. And like, that I wouldn't get. I wouldn't go too. Down the rabbit hole of like, okay, you could. You could. If you knew exactly what it would be. Something that's like a. Like a little bubble that notates. Hey, this is a paid group. And then you can maybe even have a filter for that. So you could. Hey, I only want.

We want to join for them. So it doesn't have to. It just says reach out to the. How do they sign up for it, I guess is the question.

Well, that. That's also that you don't have to worry about that because you're just linking them to the group so that that signup process is taken care of off the platform.

Okay, got it.

That's the way I had understood what you wanted to do. If you want to do it in the app, that's a whole different story.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. As a starting point, I think that's good. So it's linked. Right. That makes sense. So when they're entering their info, then the links the website, and then. So it just goes straight in. But the website will know it came from me. Right. There's some kind of special link that they could do if they want, just so they see how many signups are getting. So that way, if I do want to have them sponsor stuff, they're like, oh, yeah, I want more of that because I'm already getting leads from her. Yeah, basically. Okay, cool. Okay. What criteria? And I'm almost done. Thank you.

I just. I think this is my last piece. What criteria do you think would be good for me to know now on what qualify. I know this is a question for me, but I'm just curious what you think for a group to be in this directory.

Yeah. Because you're gonna have people at every stage. You're gonna have people who are just wanting to start to get exposure.

Yeah.

And then you're gonna have people who.

I mean, you probably think about people who already have successful ones. They're probably gonna be harder to get onto your platform. So I would say it almost would be people who are kind of new or just starting out, because they're looking for that. They're looking for that platform. Like, how do I go and cast my net to get more people into this? Because if you. If you already have a Facebook group with thousands of people or you have a school group with hundreds of paying clients, you're really not worried about traffic. Traffic. But traffic is always a consideration that even the high people at the highest level have to worry about. Right. So I think your pitch is almost different for both. But, I mean, that's kind of why I would keep. In the approval and moderation piece to where they can't just list themselves. That actually goes through an application where I say, hey, here's the name. It's paid. Here's the link to it, blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, hey, thank you for submitting. We'll review, and we'll post it when we review it. And then that way you'd have visibility until that gets to the point where you can't handle those by hand anymore.

Yeah.

And then you move on to a different model. Thank you. That's. Those are my thoughts on that.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be good. And somehow being able to tell if something gets sunsetted, knowing that, how do I keep track of that stuff if they're no longer running the group just so the. The thing stays clean? So that's what I don't want it to be. Another thing. That's annoying.

That's interesting. Yeah. Cause you could have, like, you know, like you said, those ones that are.

Yeah, that's interesting.

Oh, maybe like, every month. I mean, that might be annoying. Maybe it'd be every quarter. There's something where they would have to update in order for them to stay on the website. There's some kind of, like, thing they have to fill out every quarter.

Yeah. Yeah, that would be what you'd have to do. Because I, you know, it would be tough to know just because there's a link in there, that it's broken or it got moved or it's in the past or whatever. You could do this with events. Events are easy because you say, hey, here's the date of the event. And then you can just filter out for anything that's in the past, and then it just doesn't show up anymore in the app. You know, that's easy. But groups that are kind of there all the time.

Yeah.

There would almost have to be some kind of.

So this is a good example. I'm going back to where my brain is, where I'm like, oh, I really missing out on events. So this podfest, since I just talked to them this morning, this is a good example. They have Pod Lab, where every week they do a training. So that's a group. Right. It's an online group. And so let's say someone sees podlab, I guess then they would find out about the event when they joined podlab. Right. In the description, it would say, come join this group. Because we have events all over. We have this yearly thing. Like, it could say it in their description or something. Right. When it links to their thing.

Yeah. And then maybe with the checkboxes, it will say like this group does in person and online. And then they could basically. Because it doesn't have to be. The group doesn't always have to be in person. It could be online anyway. I don't know. There's something there that I just. I need a circle, so. Okay. Well, this was incredible. Thank you so much.

This was a great time.

Yeah. I just need to listen back to this. But I. I'm really loving where we left because either way, no matter what, I'm just declaring it here. I'm gonna for sure do. No matter what happens, I'm doing that thing you said, the. The waiting list or the interest list or whatever that is.

Yeah, for sure.

I'm gonna do that for sure. Cause if anything, I'll at least get feedback from people. Yeah, yeah. And what would be a number to you that would make sense for me to move forward? For me to get signups with. Barely. I won't be proning it too crazy.

That's hard. It's. That's hard to say. You know, it's based on your audience level. You know, if. If you promote it to. And I maybe I would kind of go with percentages. Maybe, like if you promote it to 10 people and two people sign up. I mean, 20%'s not bad, you know, but if you promote it to a thousand people and two people actually submit and sign up, then you're kind of like, okay. I would probably base it a little bit more on that, you know, rather than the hard, fast number.

Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, please share where people can reach out to you if they want to start their own no code app or website.

Yeah, absolutely. So it is dapper no code. Dapper no code. Like it says on my shirt dot com. We have all the tools, all the services there. And then that calculator is actually the link to right there as well, too.

Okay. Okay. Awesome. This is so much fun. Thank you so much for coming on Dan, I really appreciate it.

Yeah. Thanks for doing this. I've never really done one of these lives, so it's very. Is a very interesting, fun experience. So people got value out of it.

Yeah. I'll send it to you in case you can use it for any of your clients and stuff that are looking at it might be interesting.

So. Yeah, for sure.

Well, I'll talk to you soon. I'll reach out to you. What is it today? I don't even know. Today is Wednesday.

Yes. Yes, it's Wednesday.

I'll call it by the end of the week. Yeah.

All right.

All right. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Bye.

Bye.