Episode 122 - Mike Hogan The Dating Dare Challenge Champion Wants You To Enjoy This Moment

Sam.

I do really believe 100% from every part of me that everyone has the capacity to be able to do the things that they want and not to be held back by the mental baggage that's in our head that we want to push through.

Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. In each episode, we get down and personal with people who go after the things they want to make all their wildest dreams come true. Join us as we unveil and dissect a formula for what it takes to do the thing. Here is your host, Stacy Lauren.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. Oh my gosh, you guys. I'm sitting here with the champion of the second do the Thing dating dare challenge, and I am so excited to be able to talk to him about how the challenge was for him and then also about what he learned about himself and the different ways that he has grown throughout the challenge. And it's been amazing to be able to see people his journey throughout the last five weeks. And I just felt so moved by watching his journey and so I'm so excited to be able to talk to him more and then also to be able to have you guys hear from him as well. So I am welcoming Mike Hogan to the show. Hey, Mike.

Hi. How are you, Stacy?

I am doing great. How are you?

Good, thanks. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Why don't we start off and have you share a little bit about you and your story and then we'll kind of dive in a little bit more.

Sure. I don't know what we exactly want to touch on, but just what we had chatted about before, I guess a little bit about what I think makes me me. Of course, we all have a lifetime of experiences. I had a very loving family, very supportive, and at an early age I became a type 1 diabetic. So I've been dealing with that my whole life. I really don't know anything different. And that is definitely a backbone. I've always greeted everything with it. Oh, you have diabetes. You can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do something. Not going to happen. I didn't let it happen. So, played sports, held political offices at elementary school and high school, but never really saw that as a path forward. Getting out into the working world again. Another little challenge along the way. Traditional four year university. Sure. I mean, get the education you feel like you need and you can work with. I decided to go with a co op program and it was the first year of A co op program at the university. I went to St. Joseph's University and I crammed five years of school into four years, including a full year of 40 hour a week work weeks. That combined with a part time job kind of gave me a step up getting into the real world. So that was really a good launching point. I've been very fortunate. The same guys that I've known for going on 50 years now, a handful of them are still my friends and we stay in touch on a weekly basis during COVID We did these zoom calls to make sure we could see everybody's beaming faces once a week. So. But they're spread around the country and we all have our inside jokes. Everybody has hopefully has a support group like this. So got married. Never really ready for that. I guess you think you are finally was able to have children again. No owner's manual, no real guide out there in front of you. And we were fortunate enough to have one of each, which is perfect, a perfect complement. And on a side note, I'm pretty, pretty pleased so far with the adults that they've turned out to be. So building a life as a family was definitely an experience. And then another major life issue and we all have these that hit us. But a divorce came about when I hit the age of 50 and that really wasn't in my plans. It did knock me a little bit, got me a little off my feet, if you will. But through the support of my brother. You know what you need to do, you need to start running and you need to start meditating. Okay, dude, whatever you say. So I've been doing that for the last eight years pretty consistently and it's part of the fabric of who I am. I have a great relationship with my kids. They're both currently living back with me right now. So I get back a little bit of that time that I missed. Both kids are out of school right now. It ended up being an amicable divorce, but I needed some support and I realized that. So my church offered a divorce group which just again was the right medicine at the right time and gave me an opportunity to express myself, to hear what other people were saying, to get prepared for what I was going to be going through. So I felt very fortunate there. Since then, bought a new house a couple of years ago. Both kids are getting ready to take the next step in life. I joined a social group, a single social group that I've been a member of here in the Philly area for the last three years. And it's a group of like Minded people that get together and do dinners and activities and horseback riding and zip lining. And I even decided very early on that, hey, sure, I'll host the events. So that gives me an opportunity to be me. I like to make sure that people are connected and talking and having a good time and dealing with a variety of different people. My real joy in life is when I can help somebody smile. If I can help somebody smile or laugh, then I've made my contribution to the world. And if I can keep doing that and heck with audiences, not on stage, I just mean at these social events, it gives me the opportunity to be at the top of my game. And that energy, that return energy is what keeps me going. So I, I pretty much approach everything that way. Good people around me try and keep myself busy. Exercise is cathartic and love looking at new opportunities.

Yeah, and I love that you totally get that concept of the my people piece of the formula because you've been doing that kind of all along between it sounds like from the yoga challenge you did to the divorce group to the single social group and all these things that you're doing, your church that you're doing. And so it's no surprise that you get into a challenge with the one that we just went through and you're able to be the leader in that challenge because you're still, you're fully invested into the benefits of what being around my people does for you.

Get out of it what you put into it. And of course, I heard that a few times, we all did. When you go into school, right, when you go into college, if that's the path that people take, and I'm a firm believer in that, hey, look, do I, do I want to do everything that I do on a regular basis. There are meetings I don't want to go to, there are social obligations that when I'm driving there, I may not feel 100% me, but, but staying consistent and, and realizing you made a commitment, it's amazing. Just to me at least just having that mindset, okay, you made a commitment. Go ahead, check it out. You never know what's going to happen. Don't have any predetermined notions. And boy, I'll tell you what, more often than not, I'm leaving a meeting or a social event or even a gathering online with a smile on my face. I mean, what, what else? I mean, it's, it's oversimplifying things, but really, if, if that's what I can get out of what I give, I'm all for it.

So what. How do you decide to join the do the Thing Dating dare challenge?

That's one question I should have prepared for. I honestly was thinking about it, Stacy, and I don't honestly know how I even came upon it, actually, obviously on Facebook, but it was just. It was a confluence, I guess maybe that's the wrong word of where I was. And I think specifically the thing that drew me to it is because you had the full title, the Dating Challenge. I'm still single, so far from an expert in anything, but I always felt you're being you. You're doing the right things. And I'm using air quotes not suitable for podcast, but in any event, I was just at a point where nothing was going on online. You got to be online, you got to do this, you got to do that. Just nothing. There was no staying power there, and it was more an energy suck and a time suck. And yeah, you would take your body blows too if you kind of overthought things too much and that membership was expiring. I was frustrated that you seem to be doing all the right things. Nothing's kind of clicking. You're out and about in real life. So I just. It came up. I know I'm not giving you a real firm answer here, but it just came up at the perfect time and your slogans that are sprinkled throughout the challenge. Like I said, I. I just said, hey, I'm game. Let's give something different a try, something out of the norm, something that you don't see every day, something that's not over advertised. And I. Something popped into my head. It didn't fill a void, but it took the place of the energy that I was wasting in other areas. So it was a really. It was a really good fit because.

It'S not like you had these major expectations when you joined, which I think shows probably why you became the champion at the end, because you were sort of able to just take the fun out of what you were doing. And then understanding that concept of my people and the synergy that you get when you're around others that are doing the same thing as you. The momentum sort of took you away is what I'm imagining, at least.

Yeah, I mean, that's the simple answer. Yeah, it is something. I mean, it took everybody a little while to get their feet comfortable. And this was your second go around, and you went big time from the first one. But having the guest speakers and then the interaction online, I am not a typer per se. I'm more of a three dimensional experience, if you will. But even that interaction with people and then during the week online to read the posts and people were willing to share their vulnerabilities and I mean, I could get a sense that it was a good mix of the real world with regards to dating. And it did help me realize. I'm not finished reading the book yet, but it did help me realize that there are two people involved in this process. So be aware that the other person involved can have some, some other things that might be going on and don't rush it. Be patient, be curious. And as long as you're doing all that and staying authentic to yourself and of course making sure that you're safe, then I think it's a great way to look at things. I could tell that I was tracking, but a few people really came out of their shell. And by no means am I trying to be conceited, but, but it really was a reaffirmation. Let's put it this way, I had a head start because I did half those dares over the last two or three years. So it was fun to kind of recreate those opportunities. Did I do them under the pretense of getting them done in a week or anything like that? No, but it was a reaffirmation. I think I mentioned that I am doing the right thing. There are good people out there, there are people that, that want to grow. There's still a lot that I can share. It was really a two way street.

So what do you think are some of the things that you got from, from doing the challenge and participating in it, now that you're looking back or even maybe some things that you noticed along the way?

I hate to go back to the reaffirmation thing, but there were, there were very few challenges that I felt any type of anxiety about. But I did get that sense that a number of the people in the challenge did have that. So it was kind of just a reminder for me to be patient out there in the dating world in real life. And I'm kind of repeating myself a little bit, but one of the things I did learn is I think challenge is good for me. Challenge is really good. I did not set out to, quote, unquote, win anything with this, so I appreciate being recognized. But yeah, I did a yoga challenge. I'm doing another yoga challenge. Dealing with what I have to deal with medically is a challenge every day, but I just don't let that get in the way. But I think I'm, I'm 100% Mike. When there's something on the line, if you will, it's a way of holding yourself accountable by participating. I mean, there are people in the group and to each their own, that kind of just monitored the whole process. And then you had a core group of people that showed up for most of the gatherings and what have you. And that's another reflection of real life. And I don't know if I learned that or just kind of remembered it.

Yeah. And you mentioned being 100% Mike. I'm wondering. I've been exploring the idea of this. I'd interviewed. I don't know if you saw. I posted in the group the other day, interviewed on the podcast Dare to Dream. And actually Gregory was in the group also. And the thing that he says a lot, and I love this, is he basically took off the mask of who people expected him to be and finally kind of came into who he was. And that's when everything started changing for him. It sounds. That idea of you being 100% Mike, it sounds a little bit similar where you're really being who you are and not what others expect you to be.

I like that, and I definitely agree with you there. I can't put a date on a calendar, obviously. Like I said, eight years ago, my world was rocked. And I'm not the only one that's ever been through it. And fortunately or otherwise, I won't be the last person to go through it. So I guess the shared experience is something that I continually try and remind myself about. But I lost myself while I was married. And by that I mean the person I entered the marriage with. Sure, we all had. We all change whether we choose to or not sometimes. Sorry, a little smirk there. But I was the guy that I wanted to show up at the parties first and be the last to leave. And I enjoyed, shall we say, having adult beverages. And that started to take its toll on me. And I had a dark point, a turning point. I guess I would rather look at it. And I've been sober for 12 years now, since before the divorce. And I don't know why I decided to go down this path, but there was that period in between where I wasn't being me. My friends outside the marriage didn't know how exactly how challenging things were. This isn't funny, but these are a group of guys that we all have conversations offline. And I don't think I was the one in the group that was going to be that statistic, but I ended up being that and nobody knew it. So I wasn't being real to myself. I wasn't being real to my family. I wasn't being real to my friends. And after the divorce, I rediscovered myself without the alcohol. And people say to me now, holy crap, you're like this freaking out, dancing. I can't imagine you doing this and drinking. And I'm like, I'm enjoying life even more now. Just being able to really experience things without any type of fuzziness, if you will. So showing up and being 100%, there was a period of my life, and everybody believe kind of bounces back and forth, but I don't feel like. I mean, look, I know my kids have expectations of me, and I like to think I'm a pretty good father and I do the best I can, but I really don't. It's not that I don't care. It's just if I'm being who I am, then I don't have to worry about what other people think of me because the people that care think fondly of me. And I can't be everybody's friend. I can't be there for everybody. But I can along the way. I can try and add a little bit of joy here, there, along the way.

I think there's so much. I mean, there's so much pain in divorce, but there's so much gift in it, too, because it finally gets you down enough that you're able to then kind of almost, like you said, rediscover yourself and who you are.

One of the phrases I have a couple. But one of the things I like to repeat is don't let anybody else steal your joy. If you have to have the joy from within, you need to find that joy from within. And we chatted about this on Sunday online. That whole idea of your bucket filling up, and it's not until you can have that spilling over that you can share it with. With other people. And if that's your desire with somebody special at some point, there's something so.

Powerful about that idea because I think so many people, especially in the dating world, that are looking for someone else to fill their holes, but when you realize, like, you're the one that has to fill them first, then you can be there for someone else. That's when the real magic happens. Because then you're getting the right person that you're attracting and not some crazy town.

There's no guarantee on that either. But you have a better chance. Let's put it that way. You're improving your odds.

Totally. Well, I would love to talk about some of the stuff. So I'm looking right now and I think you gave me another idea for a dare for a future challenge with this one. One looking at dare 15 and you said still chances to build on this one too. Today during my run at the park, every time I saw someone with Phillies gear on, you shouted go Phillies and spread a few miles and laughs. I love the idea of that because you're kind of giving yourself something to challenge yourself with during the day and then you're doing the dare more than once.

Basically other people have said this. I just love the expression on strangers faces if you can have a meaningful connection. Yeah, Mike, how can you have a meaningful connection in 11 seconds? But if you can, you have to be in my head. So I'll be jogging along and I'll see a couple coming up and then I'll notice, you know, the guy has a Phillies hat on. Well, the Phillies were in the playoffs. Well, let's keep the juice going. All right, go fills and then I get a chuckle out of that. I'm a big dog person. If I'm at the park. If I stopped every time I saw a dog that I wanted to pet, I would never finish a run. But yet those opportunities are there and I have to remind myself to actually, hey, wait, there's a human here too, not just a dog. So there's an opportunity to get a couple of smiles. But I love the look on strangers faces when you, you just as something as simple as, you know, have a great day, love your shirt. Something that just helps somebody else realize, hey, somebody did notice me. And I always kind of keep my head turned or take my earphone out just to see if I can hear a chuckle or see it, see a smile. And yeah, I mean it doesn't have to be at the park holding doors open for people and just simple stuff. The thing I don't like is when I'm walking around the neighborhood and I can't see real well into a car when they're driving by. So I have no idea if somebody's waving at me or not. It's a different tangent.

What were some of your favorite dares that you got to do during the challenge?

The dance like nobody's watching was definitely. And I had to work a little bit more on that, but it actually was kind of a self revelation that, I mean, I kind of, I kind of do that. I mean I was at the airport and heard some cool music and I just started bebopping and I do that in the grocery store whenever Some good music does come on, but I love that kind of stuff. The getting the phone number was challenging. You know, a lot of things, a lot of situations have to go right there. You have to be in the right environment and feel the right connection. So that one was a dare that I don't think I hit out of the park, but that's okay. The dares aren't done. So those are a couple that come to mind, the exercise one. And I think that is going to build off of maybe some of the challenges you have going forward. But again, the exercise one, it wasn't out of the norm for me to do four or five different exercises in a week, but to be able to share that with people, maybe there's a little inspiration. I got a couple of questions. Where's your yoga studio? And stuff like that. So those are the ones that really popped out. Yeah.

And it's cool because that one, just so everyone listening knows, is the exercise one came from a community member that posted that as a bonus dare. We called them community bonus dares. And she had said for people to do an exercise, I think it was four times a week. And then everyone voted on that one the most. So that was one of the challenges that. Or one of the dares that got to happen that week, which I thought was really cool. You had talked to someone that you haven't talked to in like four years.

Oh, yeah, Susan in Florida. Yeah, she was a sparkle in my eye, was probably more emotional because she was part of the divorce group that I was in, so. But to realize that there's still a friendship there is. Is valuable.

Yeah. You know what I think is cool about that is I have. There's this concept I've been kind of exploring, which is just begin again. And it just. Sometimes someone could think, oh, it's been four years since I talked to this person. I can't call them. But when you realize when it's a dare and then you do it and then they're receptive, you realize at any moment, in any time, I can just begin again with anything.

Well, I mean, look, your slogans are all over this, but what's the worst thing that can happen? I mean, somebody doesn't take your phone call, the lines disconnected. I mean, there's. In my mind, there's only good that can come from it. So you get that little anticipation. Wow. Are they going to pick up or am I going to have to leave a message? Yeah. But to me, that's all part of the experience is the little bit of Apprehension and then what it feels like to step past that. And then you do get the person live and all of the memories start flooding back. Remember this? Remember this. What are you up to, man? I'd love to do that. And the next thing you know, somebody else is back in the mix. So I. Yeah, I thought that. I thought that was one of the really good ones.

I really like that, Mike, because what you're saying is you're not just falling in love with what the outcome is, you're falling in love with the process by you liking how you feel while you're doing this new or scary, uncomfortable thing.

I mentioned after the introduction, you asked for my log cabin story and meditation. I am not a Zen master or anything like that. I don't. Don't bother me for 20 minutes. I'm not like that. But a lot of the concepts about just enjoying this moment. So right now I'm enjoying talking to Stacy about stuff that we've done together and just cool life stuff. So I'm trying to enjoy this moment. If I sat around for two hours before this, thinking about, oh, my gosh, what am I going to say to Stacy? Am I going to be funny? Am I going to say everything she wants me, then I would have ruined those previous 120 minutes before the call because I would have been worried about stuff that I don't really have control of. And this, none of this is novel, what I'm saying. It's the idea that you really only have control of this moment. Approaching it with a positive mental attitude is a big step for me. And the same thing about what's coming. I mean, to worry about the future. The past and the future are going to have taken care of themselves. And if you set yourself up right, the future will unfold in a way that works for you. But right now is all you have to work with, so you might as well enjoy it. I kind of laugh at myself when I'm driving to yoga in the morning. I'm actually just kind of, oh, good. It'll be good to see Marty and Lisa and stuff like that. You know what? I was thinking about this funny thing and I thought about Marty. So I'm going to make sure that as soon as I see him this morning, that's what I'm going to tell him. And just being able to think about those opportunities kind of. I don't feel like I'm wasting my time to prepare for what's coming in that moment.

And I'm wondering too, when you talked about trying to get the phone number and that being hard. So here's something I really want to incorporate, and I haven't done this yet. My idea of that, that dare was to get people to not be scared of hearing the word no. So I almost wonder if on a future challenge I should do something where they actually try to get rejected. It's a thing that we actually are. That's the dare is we want to hear the word no. And I thought the picture challenge, taking a photo with a stranger was going to get a no. But apparently stranger likes getting their photo taken.

I don't know. I mean, you can only give so much background about the photos you took. But I was. I was a little worried. Not worried, but mine had a lot of just kind of background to it. But that whole idea. And in our brief chat before we started here, I also saw that you were involved in sales. So oversimplifying the sales process. And that is what my career has been most of the time. Although I'd like to think of it more like account management. My job is internal and external customers and being that conduit between the two. But anyway, that's a quick aside. But the idea of getting no's, I mean, what was the old formula? You know, you get nine no's and one yes, and that can make your month or something like that. But you have to be willing to get the no's and not take them. It's nothing personal. It's nothing personal, but if you never ask, you never get. And I still, you know, I'll be driving back from the park and I'll be going, are you kidding me? I mean, she laughed. We exchanged a couple words and then you just smiled and went on jogging. It's like, you dumbo, there was an opportunity. And sometimes I turn around and run back, and other times I don't. It's not about trying to hit every single person you meet. Can I have your number? Can I have your number? Can I have your number? Because you have to do the work. You have to have a pleasant conversation. There has to be something there to warrant asking for the number. But yeah, I mean, you can get a bunch of no's if you just indiscriminately walk around a restaurant. And you might get a few slaps in the face too, but.

Well, and maybe asking for something else. And I'm just thinking, what would be a good dare for someone? Maybe not the number, but that same kind of idea. I thought it was going to be taking the picture, but everyone likes getting their picture. Taken because that one was easier. The first challenge, I said, I want you guys to get seven nos before you have a stranger take a picture with you. And everyone was, we. Everyone wants to take our picture with them. So, yeah, so that wasn't it. But yeah, if you have any other thoughts on that, maybe not the phone number because that might be a little bit too high on the comfort zone scale, but something where people will say no. But it's also not devastating for the person to have to ask or the person that has to say no to them, if that makes sense.

It does make sense. And obviously I don't know everybody's story, but there's. Most of the dares I think worked really well in kind of, for lack of a better term, baby step methodology. Just getting people to put their toe in the water to try something that they might not do.

How else do you think you might have grown during this challenge? During the last five weeks, have you noticed any changes in you personally?

I've talked to people about it outside the group. I mean just I talked about this opportunity. I invited a couple of people to the challenge kind of late in the game, but so being a. This is an over. Over dramatized word, but kind of evangelizing, it was just another supporting factor to myself that I was buying in and that I was part of it. I really. I haven't done a whole lot of self reflection on where I was before and where I am after. I am definitely looking forward to continuing. And somewhere along the line this was. Oh, this was one of the. Or no. One of the proposed dares was. I think it was up against the exercise thing was. And I forget the phraseology, but say yes to everything. Or something along those lines.

Yeah, I think that was one of the community bonus errors for sure.

That movie. Gosh, I can't even remember his name now. The crazy Terry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that. That, that movie. Yeah. So that's what that. And that's what I actually voted for that time around. But that whole idea that just say yes to everything as long as you can manage your time and your energy. Of course.

But that's when you get expansion, right? Is when you're saying yes. That's how new things start to form and new. You get to see what you like too from it.

It's that split second in your mind and I don't know how you get there for you and I and people that are probably taking the time to be part of the challenge. That. That idea of just saying, heck yes, it's that split, split decision, oh, no, I can't do that, or heck yes. And I just tend to always lean towards heck yes. I may think it through a little bit better after the fact, but I tend to be pretty spot on with my decisions. I'm pretty lucky that way so far in life.

What advice would you give someone that's thinking of doing the next challenge?

Open minded, don't set any final goal. Be willing to learn. Learn about others, learn about yourself and just try and try and carve out the energy that's required. Because I don't want to say it's work, but if you don't commit to it, which there's a time commitment, then I could see how somebody would get frustrated and maybe just kind of stop halfway through and what have you. But I think it's like a lot of things, hey, if I'm going to read that book, I actually have to turn the pages and read that book. If I'm going to be part of a challenge, if it's the Sunday evening, if it's engaging online, or if it's making sure you put a plan together to satisfy one of the dares, there's a little bit of planning that needs to be done. And I would take pictures of the dares from week to week. So I had it in my phone so I could remind myself, this is what you need to be thinking about this week. So where are you going to expose yourself to this opportunity? Where's your biggest likelihood of satisfying that? There.

Yeah, I like that. That's how you added to your accountability, I guess too right. Was taking pictures of the dares.

Right.

What do you think would be the biggest thing someone will get from doing a challenge like this?

I think the biggest thing is hopefully the light bulb goes off and you realize that you have a gift, that you are the gift. And not everybody can be the funniest or the best dancer or what have you, but by taking a chance, by doing something outside your comfort zone, it just hopefully sparks you to say, yeah, why shouldn't I take those dance lessons? Or why wouldn't I go approach that person if interested? I mean, they put their clothes on the same way I do, so it's not a big deal. So I think giving yourself that gift of knowing that just interacting with people is the way that you're going to grow and you don't have to be totally uncomfortable, but a little edge keeps us all on our toes. I mean, I'm not a very good golfer, but I still get first tee jitters. Every time I walk up to the first tee, and I know that, and I make the best swing I can, and the following 100 swings are a blast in a party.

And what about if someone says, oh, because this happened a lot where people would say, oh, I'm not ready to do something like that. That's just out of my comfort zone. What would you tell that person?

I don't know if there's anything I could tell them. I would probably say, if you're comfortable, would you want to share why you feel that way? To put yourself in somebody else's shoes, to have empathy and understanding is great, but there are different reasons, from really terrible ones to recent ones. Recency bias. If you just got five nos, maybe you're not ready to go get the next one. But if you approach it like a challenge. Yeah, so I got that sense. I mean, I didn't read every single comment, but I did get that vibe from people in the group that they just weren't ready. So there's occasions I would just try and offer something, maybe a quick quip or something, or it's an understanding. Again with that electronic communication, it was difficult. The printed word, I don't think, does justice to how people really, because some people are better writers than others, so the written word can be so misinterpreted. But I would tell people, if you feel comfortable sharing, I'd be happy to listen and to listen with no intent of offering a solution, but just to let somebody hear themselves out loud and also just encourage them, hey, time will help with that. Just keep exposing yourself to the things that make you smile, and the next thing you know, you're going to be out there spreading the smiles yourself.

Yeah, that's so good, Mike. I. I'm so, as you know, I'm starting the do the thing, start a podcast challenge, and this wasn't even on my radar. It had originally come from a dare on the expert panel from the first dating challenge that I did, and no one took me up on it. And then the second this challenge, people were interested. So we did that, that Zoom with Adam, the platform founder. After that Zoom, I had so many emails and so many messages from people saying how much they really want to start a podcast, and they were asking me more questions. So I had decided, okay, we'll go ahead and do that, and I'm going to do this one similar to the way I did the first dating challenge, where it'll be built in public in a way. And so as I'm starting to create it, I'M just thinking of just how amazing it will be for people. And I don't even want them to think of having to publish this podcast. I want them just to record 10 episodes and go through the work of the process. But I hadn't thought of the people that are saying no, asking them, why are they saying no? Because I think that would be really. I'd be really curious because in my mind, the benefits they're going to get from even just the process of it, whether or not they decide to publish it, they're going to learn so much about themselves, and it's going to also get them to try something new and then also use their voice in a way that maybe hasn't been used before. And so it's not even really about the podcast. But anyway, that's just something that's coming to my mind. I'd love to hear if you have any thoughts around that as well.

The question you asked about, what would you say to somebody that was resistant, shall we say? I think you touched on that somewhere along the lines in this challenge. And I heard somebody. I heard you use the phrase a couple of different times. What's holding you back? Think about what's holding you back and whether you start. I mean, I don't know what's going to come of this podcast thing. I told you that. Unfortunately, I was unfocused during that last presentation, but since then, I thought about it a little bit, and I think I already came up with my tagline. And it's something I try and put on all of my social media posts. Not that I'm trying to build an empire, but the journey continues. So what? What's next? What? What? Where are you going to find some joy next? What do you have to look forward to? And if you don't have anything to look forward to, damn it, make something to look forward to. Is it travel? Is it exercise? Is it a new career? Is it starting a podcast? So you have a good thing going here. And, you know, I feel. I feel fortunate that our paths have crossed and that kind of stuff happens, and hopefully people realize that kind of stuff, because I've crossed some paths with some cool people. And a little piece here and a little piece there helps make Stacy, Stacy and Mike. Mike and so on and so forth.

Well, thank you so much for doing this with me. Thank you for being so incredible in the challenge and contributing as much as you did. And it's been such a pleasure getting a chance to watch your journey.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Likewise. Don't have the opportunity to be gushy about it, but yeah, I feel the same way. Your smile comes through even just on the audio.

So cool. Oh, can you share where people can follow you so they can see your journey?

Boy yeah, I appreciate that opportunity. Let me take my phone off of airplane mode. Yeah, my my Instagram is a little complicated, but it's hogues H o a g s underscore pres P R e z of wechman G W e C K M a n and there's a giant story in there, a lifetime story that I didn't even touch on.

Oh man, we'll have to save that. Maybe after the start of Podcast challenge, we'll have you come on again and we'll get the full story.

Sounds great.

Thanks so much. And I'll put that in the show notes so if you guys are driving, you can just look it up later. So thanks so much Mike.

Thanks Stacy. It was my pleasure and had a lot of fun.

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