Episode 128 - Kate Middleton On Why Conflict Doesn't Mean The End Of A Relationship

I do really believe 100% from every part of me that everyone has the.

Capacity to be able to do the.

Things that they want and not to be held back by the mental baggage that's in our head that we want to push through.

Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. In each episode, we get down and personal with people who go after the things they want to make all their wildest dreams come true. Join us as we unveil and dissect a formula for what it takes to do the thing. Here is your host, Stacy Lauren.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. So I love my podcast so much because whenever I hear people want to work on something or if I want to work on something myself, I have amazing experts to be able to talk to and bring on to be able to talk deeper about the things that are most important for people. And I brought on a Do the Thing favorite today, Kate Middleton, who has been on several times before. And she has this amazing ability to be able to help you be comfortable in your body through somatic therapy, but then also to be able to communicate on a deep and authentic level. And I thought she would be the perfect one to talk to about this topic that keeps coming up for me. So I have been working on in my life on being able to resolve conflict and not to go away from it. And I'll talk a little bit more about it. Through the episode with Kate, I'm imagining, but I used to be that person that would just go with the flow and not let things bother me. But what I didn't realize was my body was taking on that stuff. And by me not being able to speak my mind and be able to say when something was bothering me, it built up. And so learning how to use my voice and communicate when things got hard is something that I'm still working on. I'm bringing this up because I just had an episode with a Do the Thing challenge participant, and she talked about how one of the challenges that I had had her with helped her have a deeper conversation with a friend when they had a conflict. And through that conversation of talking about the conflict, she was able to get deeper in connection with her. And so I realized that part of that was from Kate being one of the experts in that challenge and being able to voice this important topic in a way. And I thought it'd be good to do a full episode on it. So I am welcoming Kate Middleton to the show. Hi, Kate.

Hi. So good to be here.

Yeah, I'm so Glad that you are here and you agreed to do this because I think this is such an important thing to be able to do is when something comes up to be able to talk to another person about it.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and I, I think that it's really exercising the same muscles that you use when doing the thing. It's in having hard conversations. So they go hand in hand. Yeah.

And I, I did a people pleaser episode with Dr. Nancy. She's the holistic coach that I work with as well. And I think especially for people that come from that people pleasing Persona, it's really easy for them to not use their voice when something bothers them because they don't want to bother the other person or they're afraid how the other person's going to feel. And I know other Personas feel this as well, but I thought we could really talk about that. Number one, why is it important to be able to speak your truth when things are going wrong and then when is it okay to not do that?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so why is it important? Well, for one, it's important if you want to be known for who you truly are, because anything else is, is an adaptation to what you think others want you to be or who you think others want you to be. And then you can never really be known and therefore you'll never really feel like you belong. So learning how to take a stand for your own truth and voice it to others, even when it's uncomfortable or especially when it's uncomfortable, is in service of you feeling more known and others actually getting to know the real you. So there's that and then there are all the repercussions of what happens when you don't actually speak your truth or say what's on your mind. And that basically clouds the relational field because what you are thinking and feeling is already in the space. It's already out there. So it creates this sort of murky or foggy relational environment that gets in the way of connection and understanding. And the way I see it is most of the time conflict is just connection and understanding wanting to happen and that actually a deeper connection and deeper understanding or deeper empathy can arise and through conflict if you navigate it in a compassionate way.

Yeah. And how do you get over that idea of being high maintenance? Because I think a lot of people have that perception when they're coming to being able to speak their needs, that it's coming from this really snotty place.

Right. And so this is important, and I am all for both sides or all sides of the relationship taking ownership. And I think that it is a little bit. It's excessively needy if you are demanding something from someone that you are not willing to own and practice yourself. So, for example, let's say you are wanting more attention from your partner, but you actually don't give yourself any attention. You don't slow down, and you aren't present with yourself in the same way that you're wanting. I think there is an imbalance there. So whenever I suggest, whenever you do feel the need to. To voice a need or a desire, that you do that. And you also own up to showing up for yourself in the ways that you want on your own side or offering that to your partner as well. So that can actually help is if you know that you are showing up in the ways you want to be reciprocated in. It's a little easier to speak for that or to speak to that. And then another thing I'll say is a lot of the time when we are avoiding confrontation or we are withholding a desire or a need, we're doing it not because we want to relieve the other person of the discomfort of confrontation, but because we're trying to relieve ourselves from the discomfort of what it might be like to sit and receive their response or their reaction, their disappointment, their frustration, their anger, their sadness, their whatever. To be able to be impacted by another's experience takes some willingness to get closer, essentially, and be more intimate with yourself and with the other.

That's so good. And I actually, I love the way you said that idea of something that's bothering you could be something that not giving yourself. And you need to look inside first, because once you own it in yourself, it also kind of helps you get in connection even better.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

I'd love to kind of go into the how now. So let's say I'm in relationship and we're talking about any relationship. You guys, this could be a friend, a partner, a kid, a parent, grandparent. Okay, you get it.

What is that?

So there's a conflict. And now what is step one?

Well, step one is agreeing on time and place to discuss or to be in conversation around it. And so I like to consider what is of service to both people or everyone involved, what is most supportive and most helpful for everyone involved. Because what's good for you, say, right after work on a Tuesday afternoon might not be good for the person that you are wanting to have a conversation with or bring something up with that might be at the end of a stressful day. And the first thing they want to do is go for a walk or something else. So set up a time and place to have the conversation or to connect so that you're both available to it. Otherwise it's always going to be one sided. So that's sort of step number one. And you might wonder, okay, so how do I do that? Then you would share something like, hey, I want to talk to you about something. And you can actually name the thing you want to talk about or not. It's up to you. So I want to talk to you about this thing. I would like us to have it just to be the two of us. You could decide if you want it over the phone or in person. Let's just say you want it in person. I'd like for it to be in person, just the two of us, and for there to be enough time to talk through this. So at least an hour. When are you available for that? So you are setting a context and inviting this other person into it. Make room though for some negotiation. So if they are like, okay, I don't have time to meet in person, can we do over the phone? If we can do over the phone, I can do this week. So maybe you meet somewhere in the middle there. But the first step is agreeing upon the where you're even going to have this conversation, the where and when. If you don't do that, then there might be some backlash or the other person might feel bombarded, invaded, backed into a corner and you're not going to be able to go deep into the conversation from that place.

And so what if the other person. Now that isn't. So here's what I've noticed. So I've been really lucky where my boyfriend and I did authentic relating together. So we both have done these practices. So it makes it so easy when we're having anything to talk about. That's hard because we both kind of have this understanding of what, what it is. I know it's so much harder to do this with people that haven't done the work, which is why I wanted to do this episode. But I was just wondering. I'm just picturing the other person that doesn't know how this works and they're like, what's wrong?

What happened? Or whatever.

All those things that come up, how do you stabilize that before it gets disrupted?

Yeah, okay, so this is a really good point. You can give more information or you can actually bring it up at a time where you think they might be available then and there. Because for some people they really don't like the waiting. It brings up more anxiety in them to feel like, oh, they have this call looming in the distance and they have to wait two days to even know what it's about and they make up the worst case scenarios and their weekend's a write off or something like that. So you can either say, hey, I want to have this conversation about this thing. You could share a little bit more about your why, about why you want to have the conversation, because I feel like our communication has been off, or I'm sensing something in the way, or you can really phrase it however you want, but it will be helpful or disarming a little disarming. If you share that, it's because you want to feel more connected. So the whole point is to bring this up so that you can work through it together and come out the other side feeling closer. And then that takes away some of the threat. Because usually when someone tells us, oh, I want to talk about something, we think of worst case scenario and the impending doom of that. So if you remove that first, that will help. And also if you bring it up at a time where they might be able to go right into it in the moment, that can help too. Because for many of us, we just want to have the conversation then and there. It's like, oh, don't make me wait, let's just go into this.

Yeah, no, that's a really good point. And then what would be the next step? So they've agreed and then there you are meeting them.

Okay, they've agreed, there you are meeting them. Since you have initiated the conversation or you've initiated this meeting. I'd say initiate the conversation because it's you who is wanting to bring something up. So then you can start with why you're wanting to have this conversation even if you've already shared it. Something like, I want things to be a little easier between us, or I, I want to clear the space between us, or I want to feel more connected or I want to actually understand you a little better. So, for example, you are sharing your intention or your why behind the conversation and you're prioritizing connection. Side note, anytime your why is to be right, that's a sign you need to do your own work first and come to the conversation at a point where you want connection over being right. Because there's no win to come out. And I'm doing air quotes come out on top of a conflict. The win is actually both of you feeling seen and heard. So I say that as a, as A side note or a tangent we can go into another time, but you share some of your why and then you share the what it's about. So, for example, I'm just going to make something up on the spot to share a little bit of the formula. It would be something like, I want to feel more connected to you, and then what is happening or you evidence your experience. I've been noticing or I've been sensing some distance or disconnection between us over the last few weeks, and I have my own ideas of what it's about. So you're not jumping to conclusion or assuming, but you're saying, I have an idea of what's going on. But I love to hear from you what's going on for you. For example, that's just one example of starting off a conversation like this. There are a ton of ways we can go into it, but you are starting off with why you want to bring it up, what you're noticing, and you can also share how it's impacting you. And when this happens, I feel sad, actually. I feel lonely, I feel frustrated, I feel pissed. However you're feeling, and then you state what you're wanting, and I'd really just love to hear what's going on for you. I. I want to understand. Then you leave room for them to come in. So you bring your why, you bring your experience, you bring your emotions, and you leave plenty of room to hear from their side.

Yeah, so I was curious too, because for someone that's not comfortable or that hasn't had this as a practice for speaking up for these kinds of things, and if they're feeling dysregulated, what would be something they can do to regulate themselves?

Okay, so before going into the conversation, I think it's actually really important that you set yourself up up to be available to the conversation. So if you're already feeling stressed or overwhelmed or disconnected, that's not the best place to start from, because confrontation or uncomfortable conversation will probably just exacerbate those feelings. So I would start off by doing something that helps you to feel more grounded or more at peace. And so it might be going for a little walk outside. It might be yoga or something else. What really works for me is mentally walking myself through the conversation a few times, even though I know that it could go in any direction and I have no idea what the other person is going to say or how they'll be. I can rehearse my side so that I feel comfortable going in. And you don't always have to do that. Sometimes you can just see what organically arises, but sometimes that will actually just send you into a freeze response. So can be helpful to rehearse what you want to say. And then I like to have a touchstone, an object that represents to me a feeling I want to anchor into for the conversation. So, for example, I might put one of my big crystals that I found on a hike one time in my pocket or on my desk. If I'm going into a conversation, that's going to be hard. So I rehearse and I bring in something that makes me feel good. So you could do something that helps you feel good beforehand and have something with you that helps remind you of your strength. That's beforehand in the conversation itself. Bring in pauses and breaths and share your experience. So you could say something like, okay, I'm noticing. I'm starting to feel a little anxious. I'm going to take a breath for a moment. Or can we slow this down for a minute? I'm finding it hard to concentrate. So you can share what's really happening for you and what you're wanting. And chances are the other person is going to appreciate that too.

Yeah, I love that. Because it's so often that when you're having conversations that are hard, it can get heated and then you're almost giving yourself permission to begin again at every moment in the conversation.

Absolutely.

And you're opening your yourself up to this other person, which is that what we said was the why. Right. Which is getting closer to connected to that person.

Yeah. And I'll say that when the other person sees you are doing your best and you're a human having a human experience and that you might be in a pretty uncomfortable or vulnerable spot, they tend to relax a little and feel more willing to open up and be in dialogue.

And this could go down a rabbit hole. So we'll see where it goes. But I wanted to also address the part that you said earlier with the if you're going in because you want to be right, you need to do your work first. What would that work be that that person should be doing before they're going into the conversation?

So the, the work that I'm talking about is owning your own part in it and recognizing that in any situation.

Vital role, we are a participant in the exchange and that we're doing something ourselves to create the situation. So let's say I'm bringing something up to my partner and it's about. I'm. I'm just trying to make something up here. But okay. It's about me feeling like he's being controlling or maybe stubbornly needs to do things his way. If there's a shadow side in that for me, it might be because I'm not actually doing enough so that he can relax his need to control. So if he felt like I was showing up equally around whatever thing he's controlling, then he might feel relaxed and like he doesn't need to handle everything himself. So my part to own would be my lack of engagement and initiation in some area. That's just an example. Another one might be if I'm bringing up a conversation around, let's say to my sister that I maybe want her in my life more or more of her support, my part to own. There might be, oh, have I done anything to ever let her know that? Or do I show up for her? Am I available when she needs support? Those are just some examples of how to own your part. Two, going into these kind of conversations.

Yeah, I love that. And then also you mentioned earlier, which I really like too, is that almost that mirror ideas like whatever you're seeing, is that something you're not giving yourself to and sort of kind of go there too?

Yeah.

So wonderful. So we are in connection and we are expressing what it is from our experience. What if it's something as simple as something bothers you and you want to let the other person know? How would you approach that?

That's great, actually. So I call these withholds, and I.

Did not make that up.

It's a common, authentic, relating term. And many methods, they're things that they might seem small, but they get in the way of connection. And if left unattended, over time they get bigger, they escalate and continue to block the connection. And so in the beginning it's pretty easy to minimize and to push it aside and just say to yourself, oh, it doesn't really matter. Maybe it'll sort itself out. Or you try the passive aggressive approach of just energetically giving off the signals. But that doesn't always get across. So these withholds are really to be brought in the same way you prioritize connection. Start with your why you evidence your experience, name what's happening for you and what you want, and leave room for the other person to come back with their own response and their own experience. And what I find really, really helps is to name and to own that it's uncomfortable for you to bring up, or you're nervous, or you've been avoiding this for a long while, but you really need to Bring it up now so that they know it. One, important for you. And two, it's not so easy for you to bring this up.

Yeah. And then that just makes them. Again, seeing another human and a human experience because you're taking the part that you own.

Exactly. It rehumanizes you. And it. It's a leveler, too. It brings you both back onto the same level. Rather than one person being made wrong, you go into the conversation as equals.

Yeah, I really like that. Okay, so what's the next step?

The next step, then is to check in with them. How are they doing? How are they feeling? What's coming up for them? And this practice is all about listening. Give them tons of space to speak and to share, and you might be surprised with what they share. You might realize, oh, wow, there's a whole bunch of stuff they've been withholding too. And it might be a little hard to hear some of it, but that's all. Part of the conversation is giving them room to share their experience, too, and to not cut them off. It's so easy to jump into justification or blame, but what you really want to do here is lean back a little and listen. Open yourself up to listening. Check in. Is there anything more you want to share? How does that impact you? And then if you have more to say, are you open to hearing more from me? And you might find that you both reach a capacity in your conversation and you can't actually finish it or tie up all the loose ends in one go. And you might say, let's pause here. Take a little bit of space from this conversation and let's come back into it when we're both available. You might have all afternoon to go into the conversation, or you might resolve it in 20 minutes. But be open to what is needed from both of you and trust that you don't have to figure it all out in one conversation. And in fact, if you do, then it might just mean you are skipping over certain things or you're avoiding the discomfort of being in that liminal space of sort of the in between of, okay, we've broached the topic, but still sort of up in the air, and we're figuring it out. And that's often a harder place to be in than either side of that. Either unsaid or. Or tidied up.

Yeah, that's. That's good. And then what's the next thing? Are you. Are you. Is there a closure part of it?

Well, I. I would say that appreciation is always great if you can appreciate Them for being in the conversation with you, acknowledge them for showing up, and to name your desire or your requests for going forward. So it could be as simple as, I would love to check back in on this in a week from now. Are you open to that or. What I'm really wanting from you is more connection. So I want some dedicated you and me time once a week. So you're. You're sharing your desire instead of just sharing what's wrong, what's going wrong, what you're frustrated by. You're sharing what you are wanting. Because that's a collaborative approach. It's like, hey, I want this. How can we create that together?

Yeah. And it's so normal for it to be the other way. So this is such a refreshing way to be able to ask for what you want by asking really for what you want and not for what you don't want.

Yes, exactly.

And I also wanted to mention, and I thought you could add to this too, the risk of what happens when you're saying one thing and then you're feeling another. So you're coming off and it's incongruent. What does that do for someone? Just to give them more power into wanting to do this. Practice?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would say if there's incongruencies there internally, like in yourself, it feels pretty yucky. Usually we know when what we're saying does not match our experience and it. It doesn't feel true or aligned and it can bring up feelings of guilt or shame, unworthiness, lack, too much, not good. All those old beliefs can come up in the face of that. And on the receiving end, it really severs the trust and the safety in the connection because we are wired to pick up on and believe in body language over words. Body language, and by that it includes tone of voice and volume, but all of that way above and beneath and beyond the words that are being said. So if you are saying, I'm fine with your arms crossed over your chest and a scowl on your face, no one's going to believe that you're fine. So the same is true for these bigger pieces. If you say, oh, no, that's not really important to me, or yeah, it will come across, it's already being said by your body, so you may as well follow through on it with your words.

Yeah. And then the other thing that's coming to my mind as you're saying that, I don't know if you've heard that saying, it's never about the dishes when the person doesn't do the dishes, the other person freaks out. It's because there's plenty other things that didn't happen. And then you've built it up so much. And so it's this building up, oh, this wasn't done, or that didn't happen, or you didn't say this, or you didn't do that. And that is not a healthy place to be in. I was curious on that note, how do you get it to know? And I'm not talking about house stuff, you guys. This is just. I'm using that as an example. This could be someone you're not living with. It could be just a friend of yours that there's something going on that you want to be able to talk about. That's some kind of conflict. And I was just curious, how do you get it to where you're not nitpicky and you're really. Is there a meter for yourself to figure out when to really have the conversation or not?

Yeah. So if it's something that you can't really clear up on your own, on your own side, or you feel like it's. It's. It's kind of building, the charge is escalating, then it's. It's something to bring up. And you can also share. You can be really organic about it and share, like, hey, I don't want to make a big deal out of this, and I don't want to let it build in me. So I want to bring it up, but we don't have to go into it in depth. You don't have to process or unpack everything. You can actually just put something on the table and let it sit there a while, like, oh, this one thing that happened, it's been bothering me. I know it's not that big of a deal, but I have to bring it up because I can't stop thinking of it. So that's an example. And then there are other things that you could probably digest on your own. You don't necessarily need to be in conversation with the other over it in order to metabolize it yourself. And that is really up to you to discern. Sometimes it takes reaching out to someone else and talking it through with another person. But over processing gets really exhausting in any relationship, and it actually keeps you from enjoying the present moment. And it can be a very familiar space for people. And sometimes we actually look to create drama when the real desire is closeness. But we've learned that by creating drama, the conflict or the fight usually leads to some resolution. And it's that closeness in the resolution we're really looking for. So you can actually just start with looking for the closeness or some other form of connection or intimacy rather than having to go into a big thing.

Yeah, I really like that.

What would be a good.

On your note of being able to, like, work on it yourself, what would be a good reflective question the person can do to go there to be able to clear the air for themselves?

Right. So something that I like to do is what's mine to own in this and to do some journaling on it. And another one is this is challenging because. And I will say that not everything is yours to own. There's equal responsibility and that there is such thing as over ownership too. But to get curious, how can you get curious and learn and grow from this? And it can be sort of a fun exploratory process of, oh, here's something for me to look at in myself to learn from and to have greater awareness for the next time this shows up.

Yeah. And you mentioned not taking too much ownership. I was wondering. People can tend to blame themselves for things, right. Or they could take ownership. Was there a distinction between those two things?

Yes, there's. I'd say it's sort of the energetic quality behind it. And owning means owning the impact, owning the feeling of and. And how it is in you and for you to own that. It can often be pretty uncomfortable to own your experience. That's why most of us avoid it so much of the time. That's why there's so much blame and projection going on, is because it's uncomfortable. It threatens our sense of self or our egoic self to own things and own up to things. And then there is taking it a little too far. And it's owning someone else's experience, usually to try and relieve the discomfort of being in conflict, or if the conflict threatens our sense of connection and brings up abandonment wounds, will usually take too much ownership so as not to threaten the connection and to not have to feel the fear of abandonment.

And what did you. When you say projection, can you share? I know a lot of people know what that means, but for those that don't, do you mind sharing what that is?

Yeah. So it's basically seeing through the lens that you have developed from your past experience and projecting through that onto your current experience and future. So it's based on your past experience, but doesn't necessarily have to do with the present moment. So you can be in a very different relationship to reality than another. And you essentially see them as how things were for you. That might be a very confusing explanation. But an example would be. I mean, blame is an example of projection. Blaming someone else for what we might be doing ourselves in another way or in the same way to someone else.

Yeah. And I think it's just important to. And that's why I really wanted you to come on. Because I do think doing relationships right, it is a huge part in doing the thing. I mean, both in getting close to another person that's doing the thing right, is having a close relationship, but also it helps you be able to do the thing that makes you feel alive because you're having people in your life that are able to help you expand and grow and you're not scared to talk to them about things and then also to look inside when it might be coming from inside of you.

Yeah, absolutely.

And is there anything that I've left out or that we. That I didn't ask you that seems relevant to this?

I'll just say, and this kind of goes with the doing your own work. A lot of the time when we are bringing up conflict or something confrontational, we have a deep need to be seen and heard. And. And that needs to come from another, but it also needs to come from ourselves. So take some time to sit with yourself and be with your own experience. It's a lot easier just to bring it to the other person or consider it something that the other needs to explain or apologize for or do for you in some way. And sometimes, literally, just sitting with yourself in that experience is all you need to clear up a little bit of that internal conflict.

So good. Well, I'm going to ask you. I think I just asked you that, but I'm going to ask you again to see if anything else comes up. What would be your number one piece of advice for people on doing the thing when it comes to relationships?

Speak from your truth in your body. Speak from the place of your truth in your body. So if that's your heart, speak from your heart, but to listen from there as well so that you actually get impacted by what the other person is saying. You actually have to feel it in your body for resolution to happen.

So good. Well, I appreciate you coming on, Kate. This has been so great. And for the listeners, please share where they can learn more about you.

I'm easiest to find on Instagram. I'm at Kate Middleton Yoga there and Kate Middleton yoga.com you can reach out to me and let me know your thoughts on this episode or anything else you might want to share. Or ask me.

Awesome. Thank you so much for doing this.

So welcome. Thanks for putting this all together.

Thanks for listening to the do the Thing podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. But even more, we hope you'll be inspired to do the Thing. Do you have a burning question on Doing the Thing that you'd like answered? How about an inspiring do the Thing story of your own that you'd like to share? We'd love to hear all about it. Just leave us a voice message at do the Thing callcast co or email us@helloothethingpodcast.com Sam.