Episode 155 - Katy Ward Is A Artistic Entrepreneur And Is Planning Retreats For Dreamers

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. Oh my gosh. You guys talk about breadcrumbs. This feels like a really big breadcrumb moment because my next guest is the epitome of breadcrumb in my life. And she's always there during these transitions that I've got going on and has been a really big impact in me and helping me do the thing after so many things. And she seems to always just be there at that moment. And it's been cool to see her on her journey as she's learning how to get into her own deepest knowing of what she wants to do while also powering through and being able to really get after the things that she wants to do. And it's been exciting because I feel like we've been on these parallel journeys together. And she even is the one that made. She did this amazing painting for me for a vision board that I had been wanting. And it was crazy because I had realized one day that everything on that vision board actually came true. And I remember telling her how beautiful that was. And so it's amazing because sometimes when you're right inside of it, you can't see all these little ripples that happen. But when you take a moment, like right now, what I'm doing is she's sitting in front of me. It's all coming back in flood. So it's just really exciting to get a chance to welcome Katie Ward to the show. Hey, Katie.

Hooray. Hello.

I am just so excited that you're here. I feel like you've been such a big part of do the Thing parallel and here you are. We're getting a chance to interview.

Here I am. It is, is. It's. It makes me blush.

Happy. That's so cool because you even helped me. I'm. I'm thinking about it now. It's all coming back. But you even helped me explore these different ideas I was doing before the podcast started. And you helped kind of visualize things that were still just in my head. In.

Yeah.

And so it's been cool to have you just be a part of this whole process.

Yeah. And you know what I found inspiring, Stacy, was that even while you're going through that whole transition, you were always looking ahead for, okay, what's inside me, what do I want to express in a very open handed way? I could do this. I could do this. What's fun? What do people want? And you would just try things. And I think, I mean, I think that's amazing. And you tried things until you found the thing that was really charming and had momentum. And I just loved catching up and being like, okay, what's working? What are you, what are you trying? What are you working on? And then. And seeing you grow. I've loved that.

Thank you for the listeners. I would just absolutely love to have you share your story because I think where you're so unique is that you have this path that you're following, but you're so introspective with being able to have that self awareness of not just falling into the hustle culture that's so easy for us to fall into, but really checking in with yourself to be able to know that you're on the right path for yourself. And I just love that about you.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. I mean, my whole journey, the business, business that I've started, the one that I just started, all the projects that I've done, every single one has been out of a sense of intuition or almost calling rather than saying, I need this goal to happen in the future. It's just been following, like you said, breadcrumbs. It feels like an ongoing conversation where I'm just listening both internally and kind of, I don't know, to the signs, what is supposed to be next. So that's been the case ever since, I mean, ever since I graduated college. I. I'm not going to tell the entire story of me graduating college and then doing all the things I've done. But the, the short version is that I ended up knowing that I was interested in storytelling, so writing, communication. I'm also a visual artist. I love, love, love people. And I was like, I love all those things in that realm. I have no idea what it's gonna look like. And I just followed one hint after another until I saw Donald Miller give the Story Brand keynote at a marketing conference. And I was like, great, I'm gonna be a story brand guide. And so that was a business I started six years ago. Five or six years ago. Now I'm. I'm just entering into my sixth year of certification. But what was doing. The thing about that for me was that at the time, I'd never run my own client business. I had no money. I was living in Encinitas, right above San Diego, which is not a cheap place to live. And basically the agency I was working with, I just knew in my gut that it was time to leave, even though I had no, no plans. And so I just told them. I was like, hey, in two months, I'm gonna have my own business, I'm gonna have my own clients by. It was like April 4th or something. I was like, by April 4th, that's how it's going to be. And it was after I said that out loud that I saw Don Miller. I got certified the following month and then I just started sharing with people. Hey, I'm. This is the thing that I'm doing. And the cool thing about, I think relationships are part of the thread that allows you to really do the thing when you feel a calling. Because as I nurtured those relationships immediately people were like, oh, okay, well if that's what you're doing, I need your help with this. And so that's how my copy business started. And then fast forward five years later, I've have a wonderful, wonderful copy branding overall kind of brand message business. I still use the story brand framework and yeah, I've built it to the point where I was ready to start growing something else. And just like you, like I, I tried a few different things. I tried growing my painting and drawing in a certain way and then that felt kind of, it just felt crunchy, like it didn't flow. The art flowed, but growing it the way I was trying to grow it didn't. And then I started a newsletter and I, I looked into becoming a fractional cmo, which is much more left brained than I actually am. So I, you know, I just try all these different things and eventually last year, and I'm just giving the summary at this point because we'll talk more about those breadcrumbs later, but I just started asking myself, what, what is the thing I can't stop doing? And it was hosting. And so that's ultimately one thing after another led me to start hosting entrepreneur retreats. And that's the thing that I'm doing now. And that's, I'm sure we can talk about it more, but yeah, that's, that's me. I'm a writer, communicator, artist, love hosting events. And I know Stacy. Yeah.

And I really think it's such a special skill that you have of being able to take what's in somebody's brain in this really kind of messy way and then you're able to interpret it into a visual display and then it helps the person, especially someone like me, see it clearly, whereas you can't see it as clear when it's still in your head. And I just feel like that's such a special skill set that you have. That is beautiful.

Yeah, thank you. That's. It's Honestly, the common thread between the visual communication and the written communication that I do, it's all really deeply listening. And then either writing what I'm hearing in a really clear and poignant way, or painting it like we did on our project. And now, okay, well, how. How can I make a live space to listen to people and have them listen to each other and kind of re. Reinvent themselves?

I'd love to hear more about. So when you were trying the other things. Because I think it's so easy for people to get caught up in what other people say, especially when they know you have certain skill sets. Because if someone knows you and they know you as an artist, and they know you're exploring ideas and you're exploring the art thing, it might be easy for someone to say, why wouldn't you keep doing that? You're so good at it. But the fact that you so deeply know how to follow your own intuition, you're able to then not continue on with that thing. And I think it's so easy for people to continue on because you're hearing other people say you're good at it. You're like, I am good at it. But even though it doesn't feel right and I'm just kind of curious, how do you know? How do you know to stop?

Yeah, great question. One of the things that I used to struggle with, I used to really struggle with stopping, especially when it was a skill that I enjoyed. As if, hey, me not doing this now means that I'm never going to do it. And with the painting and the artwork, what I did, this kind of, this past phase of that was like, this is a hobby. And.

What made it easier to stop was that I was like, I have my entire life to paint and do artwork and make whatever out of it that I want. And I still have my art studio and my house is still full of art. And I just started to think about it in terms of there's not one way to express the different skills and interests that I have. And what's more likely is that they're all going to come out the more I explore and get involved in things I'm interested in. So rather than going the path of, I should make the most of this thing because that's what people do, it's like I'm going to follow where my interest and excitement is, and the art comes naturally with it. So, for example, with these retreats, ultimately, I could very well end up doing kind of anchoring paintings because each retreat has an intention and I can Totally imagine making a painting for each retreat that I send people home with. That anchors the experience that we had and the intention of the retreat. There's so many ways to do it in the future. And what told me I needed to stop Washington, basically that I. I just had to.

Kind of schedule in and force myself to work on a new painting or project rather than the version of me painting, which was like, I just did it when I felt like it, and it was fun and it would come out easily. And it's that crunchiness that when it has to be forced. And obviously, there are times in a project when you're going through the dip, like that book by Seth Godin, and you just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Usually when you're in the dip, you have a very clear end goal, and the end goal is so compelling that it takes you through the day. But I was hitting a point where it was the same thing with a fractional CMO work. I was like, this is.

Not giving me energy in the way that I expected. Why don't I release it and see how it comes back in the future? And I'm already having new ideas about how I could bring visual art into other things I'm interested in. Right? Yeah.

Oh, it totally does. And I'm so glad you shared that, because that's another thing that has come up with do the Thing. It's not just about doing the thing. It's also about doing the thing by letting go of things. Because then you're getting more aligned and more congruent with the things that you want to do. And like you said, I love that you already see this vision of being able to integrate the art and this visual display into the retreats. That's actually something I noticed with do the Thing. It's like I had all those things. I was working on the side with the. I was thinking of the retreat business and all these things you helped me explore. And then all of a sudden, now everything is. I'm able to do all of it with do the Thing. And so it's like that same idea of all of a sudden the breadcrumbs sort of start to make sense, and you're like, oh, I wasn't all over the place. It actually all had a. A line in sight. And it's like that with people that you see them at the same job for 20 years and they're not happy and they just don't want to leave. And so I actually interview people that have left a job after 20 years. Because I think that is doing the thing.

Yep. A hundred percent. Yeah. When people tell me I just quit my job, my. I can't tell you how many times this happened, my immediate gut reaction, I'll throw my hands in the air. I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's so exciting. What are you gonna do with this blank, open space?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'd love to hear more about this whole thing with the retreats, because, I mean, when I saw the email, I was so bummed that I have something already planned the weekend that you're doing it, because it just looks so, so gorgeous and just so spectacular. And I know how you are with experiences, and I can only imagine what it's going to be like. But I will totally go to a future one. And then maybe we'll talk about you helping me plan a future do the Thing retreat. But I'd love to hear more about that. So what? Because that's kind of scary. You're getting some place in, I think it's New Mexico, right? And, and then you are planning it and you're getting people and talk more about that. Because I feel like a lot of people might have the idea to do that, but to actually do it is a whole nother thing.

Yeah, well, I kind of did it unintentionally, but it sort of had a product development little timeline. I, I, I just put together a trip for my birthday last year, and I was like, I'm just going to book a place that's really beautiful. I'm going to invite 12 people. I'm going to have my brother come and chef, because he's a really talented chef and he's great with people and I adore him. And so we did this trip, and it was easier to plan than I expected. And the turnout was great. Everybody had a ball. I was just a melted heart the entire time. I was just blissed out. And so when I came back from that, I was like, man, I had dreamed about doing something like that for a long time. And because I was turning 30, I was like, I'm doing it. Dad gum it. And that's a Southern thing, by the way. Dad gun.

Yeah. And so I get. I had given myself six months, months to plan that trip. And it. I only needed maybe two. I told people six months ahead of time. But anyway, so that planted the seed. And it was like V1. It was like, okay, well, what if I did this more formally? And I'd done it before, so, like I do with everything else, I just Started talking about it. What about this retreat thing? What about events? I'm not as familiar with logistics. I'm more familiar with the atmosphere and programming and making people feel really good. And I actually met. I would just meet different people that had worked in events and encouraged me and told me more. And it was like a. Exploring my. The knowledge in my network to find out what it is that I'd be getting into. And I saw you doing the same thing, especially with that beverage company, and it's like, okay, what's here? What do people want? So I was working with a girl who had been in events on the logistics side, and she wanted to do it with me. So we started booking calls, we start doing the planning. And for me, it was like having someone else really made a difference. And then her business, her main business, started to blow up, which is awesome. And she was like, you know, I got to attend to my business. I'm a mom. I got to look after my kids. I am here to advise you, and I just can't partner with you quite as much. But what was cool was, and this was one of the things that told me I really wanted to do it, was that even when she said she couldn't help as much anymore, I was like, I'm in. It's happening. I think. I think I can do this. And I would create the next step. I'd create the next outline. I'd like, here's a spreadsheet of places we could go. Here's the kind of programming, here's what the brand could look like. I'd show it to people, and I just made it very collaborative. And then eventually, my brother, who had chefed the last retreat, I was going to have him chef this first retreat for my brand, the first paid retreat. And he just put his hand up and he was like, you know, Katie, I just started my coaching business. I really love developing programming around an intention. What if we work on the programming together? And I'm more involved with the retreat than just managing food, and he's one of my favorite people in the world. So I was like, yeah, sure, let's do it. One of the other things that really helped this whole time was that I was thinking about this first retreat as an experiment straight up. Doesn't mean I'm going to do retreats forever. It doesn't mean it doesn't really mean anything. Besides, let's just use this first trip as a prototype, another prototype, and see how it feels, see how it goes. Do we like partnering together? Does this format work? Does an intention work? Does my audience? You know, literally everything was on the table to be tested and scrapped. And I think that really helps when you're thinking about doing the thing is we think it's the thing. It doesn't have to be the thing. Just doing. It's kind of like doing a thing. Like you're running an experiment.

I love that. I love that. Because you're basically giving yourself permission to start it and try it and then to not finish, you know, not do it again. Which it kind of takes the pressure off of. Do I really want to be doing this forever or whatever. Those questions that could come up. It's like you're just going to try it and see how it feels.

Yep. And change it. So one of the things that has come up, I'll share this and then I do want to share about what the retreat actually is. I'll do that too. But as I started sharing, hey, I'm doing three and a half, four day entrepreneur retreat. That's basically an intentional vacation. And I would tell people about it. What started to happen was that the people in my network who had communities already kind of, they already knew me to be a people person and a host. And they'd be like, you're going to be so good at that. And I have a community. What if we were able to do this for my community? And just through those conversations, what I had been thinking about as this little experiment started, having bigger scope, not in the sense like, oh, here's how I'm going to change it and I'm going to do all these big things. It was more like, oh, I can think about it in more ways than I thought I could. And what if, what if this? What if this? It gave me more excitement and more affirmation that the direction of events generally and hosting generally was something that felt really good. Yeah. So I found that really exciting. Oh yeah. What if we actually built a framework for this retreat that I could share with other people? It's like it started growing legs even before it had happened yet. And caveat. None of that stuff has happened yet.

None of that stuff has happened yet.

But it's. I'm just kind of sharing with you my thought process.

I think it's good for them to hear that because a lot of people think you need to have every step already pre planned and figured out and. And you really don't. You keep saying it. I love this next step and then the next step, and then the next step and then you keep talking about it more People are getting excited, and then things are building and that momentum starting to grow.

Yeah, yeah. So once the thing that made it real for me was actually to do the messaging for it. What is the purpose of the retreat? Who is it for? And then what really made it real was when Daniel and I.

Booked the. The house that made it real. It's like, okay, we have a house now.

And then all the pieces just started falling into place. I tell you, there is nothing like a deadline to pull the best creative work out, at least out of me. And people will kind of bash on procrastination.

It can really be a tool, and I'm not a procrastinator. And a deadline. A deadline really forces creativity. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I think booking the first. The. The house was. It really wasn't happening until the house was booked.

Yeah, I mean, it's like when you are. For people that are wanting to run a half marathon, right. Until they book the half marathon, then all the things are starting to. To come in line. I had just talked to somebody who did this amazing sailing trip for three. He still was on the fence if he wanted to do it, but he booked the actual trip. It was like 500 and. But it was enough money to get him to want to do it, but not enough to get him to do it. But it was at least enough to get it to start the deposit. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yep.

What are you put on the line, basically?

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And so how did you find the house? How did you start?

Yeah, well.

I knew I wanted to create an atmosphere of just togetherness and community. And I. I'd been on a lot of trips with entrepreneurs and just group trips in general. I've been on a lot of them. The thing that really made them was that everybody stayed in one house, like a family. Not hotel rooms, not multiple complexes, whatever. Whenever we were staying all in one house, that's when it just felt like.

This funny phrase, we're going to do life together. Like we're really a little village for the next few days. So that was the number one thing I was looking for. And then I wanted it to be aesthetic and beautiful. That's one of my values. And it just helps to create a sense of magic when you're in a different place, different than your normal surroundings. It's beautiful, and you're around people kind of all the time. So I knew I wanted it to serve entrepreneurs who maybe have trouble taking breaks. They could be traveling a lot, they could be doing retreats a lot. They could be doing personal development a lot. But what I was seeing was that there was either a really intense personal development type of weekends that were a huge high, and then it was a little hard to integrate on the way down. And that could be business, personal development, spiritual, personal, whatever it is. Or on the other side, it would be like the type of retreats that were just partying. Here's partying. You're still tired afterward, or not even partying. You're going into the jungle and having this really intense plant medicine experience. And you almost need a vacation just to integrate back into life. And there's a place for all I've. I've done a lot of those. Not all those things, but a lot of those things. And there's a place for that. But the gap that I was seeing is that what about if I just want to rest.

But I need somebody else to book me rest. And it needs to be structured rest or I'll feel restless. So that's where I came up with, well, why don't we have an intention? But you know, it's also a vacation. So basically there's. There's plenty of free time. And we're in this house. It has a hot tub. It has lots of acreage. It's in Santa Fe, New Mexico. It's a beautiful adobe style home that's just beautifully designed and everybody has enough space. There's a big fire pit, so there's free time to relax and chill. Food's going to be taken care of, cocktails are going to be taken care of. And there's just enough structure each day, like workshops around this intention. Or we're gonna go into town one day and go to Meow Wolf and explore Santa Fe a little bit. And then we have these dinners that really I'm. I'm having the dinners be a place where there's interaction kind of activities. And so it's structured enough where you can show up and not have to think about anything.

Mm.

And restful enough that you'll feel rejuvenated when you go back to. To your job, to your work. So that was when looking for this space. I needed it to serve. Has to be one house. It has to be beautiful. It has to feel restful, and it has to have space for us to do a mastermind in a workshop. Basically.

Yeah. And I love how you were able to take all of these different experiences that you've had and that you've seen others have and pick the best parts of each of those things and Also probably look at the parts that didn't work and then be able to then come up with this plan for this new thing that you're excited about.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. There were. I mean, I. I ended up talking out loud about lots of the different events that I've been on and like, okay, I want this from this. I don't want this from this. But really, it was like, how do I want people to feel? How do I want people to say that they felt when they leave? And there's a book called the Art of Gathering. I'm looking at it. How We Meet and why It Matters by Priya Parker. And I thought I had a good sense of events before reading this book, but, I mean, she rearranged everything for me. It's a great, great book about how to host experiences for people that engage them and give them something that they won't forget. Basically.

You mentioned something earlier about listening. You even did this with the story brand, and that's how you're so good at getting things out of people's head to be able to put it into a visual display. And then that's coming in as a common thread for this retreat center because you're basically creating this experience on how people will feel a certain way and then have a certain intention when they come in. I'd love to hear more about just your approach to listening in general.

Yeah, so listening and communication have been one of my main pursuits and interests since I was 12, since I was really young. I remember I was convinced I was pretty cautious and introverted as a. The opposite of what I'm like now as a teenager. And my dad was a professor, so he gave me how to win friends and influence people, and he just started giving me conversation books. So it started that way. And then honestly, I mean, it might sound cliche. I don't know how it'll sound, but I did the landmark communication curriculum, and not a lot of people who are familiar with landmark have heard about the communication curriculum, but it's basically all about listening. And so my biggest takeaway from that and then from my other experiences studying it is really that people want to be seen. They want to feel like they're seen. And the way that you listen to them completely defines how they communicate with you. So if I listen to my brother as like, oh, you're being needy and annoying, then he's going to communicate into that defensively and reactively. And we probably haven't communicated like that since we were both kids. Yeah, nobody actually thought he was annoying because he was my little brother. But just as an example, as soon as you choose to listen to someone as a big person and someone who has a really fascinating story. Yeah. Choosing how you're listening to them, they'll just open up. And so rather than saying, I'm going to listen to whatever it is that you're talking about when I'm out meeting people, the way that I get them to really open up and with this brand script and story brand and everything else, it's asking the questions that let the other person know. You want to know what's going on with them. Basically, yeah.

I'm having another breadcrumb moment because I'm in the middle of starting. I'm planning a challenge for do the Thing. It's called Start a Podcast Challenge. And I'm coming up with dares for people that are wanting to start podcasts. And all of a sudden it hit me that I need to really teach them to listen. Because I think if you're going to have a podcast, that's really important. And I was thinking back to the majority of the compliments I get are about the listening. And I'm realizing what a skill that is to teach someone that. I'm curious, are you going to be kind of working that into the retreats? Maybe not so blatantly, but is that going to be one of your subtleties that you'll be able to incorporate?

Well, it's going to be a tool that has people open up and feel comfortable and have discoveries in the retreat. So the kind of. When I say we're going to do a workshop, it's not. We're going to have a coaching workshop where we have breakthroughs and teach you things. We're going to explore things in conversation and make a really safe space and ask interesting questions. And.

It'S like you really can listen people to the next stage of their development without having to coach them, without having, you know, it's just you make that space of listening and it does all the work for you. I would love the. The intention of this first retreat is enjoy the journey. So it's all about taking our energy back from the future. And yes, we have future goals. We're ambitious people, and we want to enjoy what we have now and really be present with it and not miss it because we're thinking about the future. So that's the first intention for the first retreat. I would love to have a retreat with the intention around listening, listening to self, listening to life, listening to your. The people in your life that would be Fascinating. I'd love that.

I'd love to hear for people that are listening to you, that and they're like, oh my gosh, I want to do something like this. I'd love to hear what advice you'd give them to maybe do the step one that you did, where you did the party for yourself. And it was sort of the door opener to this world. If they want to set something up with an intentional weekend with friends or whoever they want to invite, do you have any advice for them?

Yeah, well, first it would be what is the outcome that you want? And really looking at, do I want to have an adventure experience? Do I just want to experience more community?

And so that'll help to start. And then starting with the smallest first step. I mean, the steps I was taking even before I booked the trip for my birthday was that I had bought a house last year and I just kept throwing parties at my house. Every different kind of gathering. Small ones, big ones, themed ones, ones with crafts, ones with hands on things. I just tried all different kinds of parties that I was hosting. And yeah, so whatever feels the most accessible to where when you put it on your to do list, you're not like, I don't have the bandwidth to think about this right now, but like, oh, if I book this, I'll just start, I'll just start doing it. And then that's really the best recommendation is put a date with the parties. I would just start inviting people like, hey, having a party in two weeks. Here's the theme. I'd have nothing else. And then that's the deadline they'll make it. Same thing with this. As soon as I booked the Airbnb, it was like, all right, well, we're doing this thing.

Yeah, I think that's so cool. And also just for the listeners, Katie's new to where she's not new, but a couple years in to living where you are. How did you just build this community around you from scratch? Pretty much, yeah.

Well, I had lived here before, so I had a couple of connections still. But the thing that did it was that there's, there's a bike ride, a social bike ride that happens every week. So I kept going on the bike ride even when it was like, I'm, I'm not really meeting people that I'm interested in. I just kept going, going. And I also kept booking one on ones with either the people I knew. And then I'd say, okay, friends that I've had for a long time. Introduce me to one person I should Have a coffee with. And I did that. And I just kept having coffees with people that way. And then I found it was kind of by accident. My boyfriend and I stayed at a little boutique hotel that was a yoga hostel. And the people just had similar interests. They were interested in health, they were interested in personal growth. And I just got to know the girl that ran it and found out that she does potlucks the first Wednesday of every month. And then I started going to those come to find out, oh, the people that go on this bike ride have some overlap with the people that do this yoga treehouse thing. Yeah. And I kept inviting people to things and then they started inviting me to things. And then it also always helps to meet the one or two people who know everyone and just tell them, you are social butterfly just like me, but you've been here for years. Tell me what you're doing and not feel bashful about that because feel like that love including.

And so you're totally open to asking for help.

Yes. Yep. And. And just hearing what I'm up to, here's the direction I'm going, here's what I'm up to. Tell me how I can help you and support you, all of those things. Because there's definitely a boundary where you're. You want to be providing value. I'm not just out there trying to jump on what people have built without putting any work in myself. And through those listening and building genuine relationships, it's a no brainer. People are like, yeah, we've had a great connection. You really listened to me. I felt heard and seen. You should meet this other person I really like.

Yeah. So for people listening, a lot of the community right now that is following me is like in some form of reinvention of self because either they had kids that just graduated and now they're empty nesters, or maybe they got divorced or widowed or started a business. So many different things can happen. Right. And with that, it's almost like you're evolving and growing and sometimes you do need to expand outside your current network in order to get to the next level. And I was just curious if you have any advice for them.

Yeah, well, I'm kind of doing that as well. I have, I kind of always have been doing that. So I spend time between multiple cities at this point. I spend time in San Diego, I spend time in Austin, I spend time in Atlanta. And I would say one of the things that makes it easier is finding common interests. So business and entrepreneurship makes it easier for me because entrepreneurs like meeting each other. And there are lots of events for entrepreneurs. So when I go to other cities, I'll just go to events like that. But it can be as simple as you get into yoga or you get into hiking or you have a meetup. Finding those things that are common interests or starting them. Here's one. I was just in Austin last week and I met this girl named Elle and she just wanted to make some new friends and she started a Saturday morning at 8am Walk. And every Saturday morning a dozen to 40 or 50 people would meet up at a coffee shop and walk for like two hours and talk. And she made kind of guidelines for whom she wanted to be there and guidelines for what the conversations would be like. And people showed up. At first it was people she invited and then they invited more and more. And so not being afraid to self generate, what kind of experiences do I want to have? And who are even just a couple people that I think that would nourish and then having them invite that kind of thing, does that help?

Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. I think people also don't realize how easy it is to integrate. Once you can befriend your self conscious person and release that into the world and say hello as it comes in, like I'm not good enough, people aren't gonna like me, whatever that is. And once you release that, that frees you up for so many expansive opportunities. And what's coming to my mind and the reason that comes up is I'm picturing there's some people in my community that are already ready to own their time now. Right? There were these professional jobs and they're like, I wanna now explore these other things because they're writing a book, they're starting a podcast and you're making me think they could. If they want to be an entrepreneur or start a business, they don't need to all of a sudden start something and figure it out. They can just join an entrepreneur event. Because you don't really need to be an official entrepreneur having done all these things. You just need to want to do it and then you all of a sudden are able to then sort of get caught up in what that is.

Yeah, yeah, the, the quote unquote entrepreneurship thing is, I mean obviously there are people who have built and sold lots of businesses and that's the textbook definition. And to me it's a mindset. It's just saying I would like to design my life, I'd like to design my time, I'd like to spending time doing things that light me up. And there are lots of people I know who work inside of companies who are that way. They're fully designing their lives. They're fully being kind of intentional and creating everywhere they go. Yeah, it's.

I'd love to just ask you also because you work with, through the story, brand side of your business, you work with some big brands, people that are doing extraordinary things. Is there anything that you've noticed in common with them on the people that are really doing the thing?

Ooh.

Yeah, it's a lot of it is that.

They'Ll have a curiosity or an interesting and they'll find ways to explore it that involve other people. So I'm thinking of two examples right now. One of them, I just worked with this awesome company that launches rockets into space and they made the first totally compostable rocket fuel. You could eat their rocket fuel. And I just think that's the coolest thing ever.

So cool.

So this guy didn't. He was. He's not a rocket scientist. He doesn't come from that world. He and his business partner just started an interest group. They started, I think, meeting up with other people who are interested in space and talking about their idea, looking for people to work with. And he was self taught. He just did all the research, he read all the books, he ran experiments. And that's kind of an extreme version of having that much initiative to build a rocket company. Not a scientist. No, that's the most dramatic version. I have another friend who I've worked on multiple projects with at this point and his journey has been very iterative. He wanted to work in impact. Okay, well, I also like growing businesses. And then he explored what kinds of businesses do I like growing in. He started a podcast to explore the industry just to see what he could learn about the industry of impact companies in tech. And I worked on that with him and it was just really cool to see him have a very open hand. Here are my interests. I'm not going to put a box around. This is what I want and this is what it has to look like. I think that is really.

A defining thing because it's tempting to say I'm only going to feel safe and secure if I know what it's going to look like. It takes a lot more courage and you go farther if you're like, look, I have these interests, I don't know how to express them. I'm gonna go explore the world and through people, through whatever means are interesting to me and let it evolve in real time. Yeah, I think that's that open handedness but being very persistent about following their curiosity just led them to build these, these awesome companies.

Okay, Katie, the time is here. I'd love to hear what your number one piece of advice for the listeners is on doing the thing.

Yeah, you know what? We talked about listening so much so far and it really is listening. We talked about listening to other people and I think my, my best piece of advice is listening to what you really want and need and listening to what's exciting, what gives you energy, what can you not stop doing, what when you think about it in its grandest form is just dazzling to think about, even if it seems impossible. And then in the small things, the day to day things, listening to what do other people say to you that sticks with you and what patterns keep showing up serendipitously. Yeah, that listening makes, I mean it can make or break your life path. Honestly.

Could you please share where people can learn more about you?

Yes. Okay. So the retreats that, that brand, that site is called resetreturn.com r e s E-T-R-E-T u r n.com It's a great domain.

It's great.

That's for the retreats.

Everything else, my story, brand work and my art and everything else. I also have the domain of my name, which is kind of wild because I have a generic name. K A T Y w a r d.com katyward.com and that's my, my Instagram too with two underscores in the middle. But yeah, that's, that's all the things.

Thank you so much for doing this with me. It was so much fun.

I know, so fun.

You're welcome.

Thank you for having me and for.

The listeners, thanks for tuning in and go out there and do the thing.