Episode 241: Norma Holmes: The Courage to Prioritize Self in a World of Givers

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. Well, you guys, you get to meet another member of the do the Thing community today. I swear, this community has the most unbelievable people in it. It has been just such a privilege to be a part of something where people are just open and vulnerable and really trying to live their best lives and go through the growth and all the challenges that come with really tapping into who you are. And my next guest is a real leader in that path in that she is constantly going outside of herself to stretch her comfort zone, and she keeps going further and further. And it's been amazing to get a chance to see her grow. And I wanted to bring her on because we're at kind of a really cool point where she's done a few do the Thing challenges already, and then she's about to do the Start a podcast challenge. And I think a lot of people think that when someone's doing something new because they've done another thing already, that they're not scared. And I thought this would be a good time to bring her on, because I'm imagining there's so many feelings coming up right now as she's about to embark on this new challenge. And even though she's gone through so much growth on the other challenges, and I think this is a big piece of do the Thing that I really want to help people understand is just because you're doing it, it doesn't mean that it's easy. But the growth while you're doing it and being able to enjoy the process and have that personal development while you're doing the thing, then when you get to the growth on the other side, it's actually kind of magical when you look back. So on that note, I am excited to welcome Norma to the show. Hey, Norma.

Hi, Stacy. Nice to see you again.

Oh, my gosh, it's always so great to see you. I just feel lighter when we get a chance to talk.

Yeah, there's been some heaviness and heavy growth and a lot of heavy stuff that's been going on, so. But it's good to be here and to maybe explain some of my heaviness. Maybe whoever's listening, maybe they can let their heaviness down and move on.

I love that because I think a lot of times people don't talk about the challenges that people have through all of the things, and when you're able to work through it and then get to the other side and you're ready to kind of process it and move Forward. There's just this special moment that you're in this growth spurt. And for anyone that is not watching and you're listening, I'm doing this weird thing with my hands right now. I tend to like to do that now on the podcast, but it's like something's pulling you back, but then you're trying to move forward and you're fighting it because it's hard to walk through. But you know, once you nudge forward, you're getting there and that's where you know the gold is on the other side. While even though it's hard, you're still slightly enjoying it because you know you're growing and you're getting to feel this magic. So anyway, I'd love to talk about that a little bit too.

Oh, yeah. I do feel like I'm in between two worlds. It's this comfort zone of the people pleaser. But then it's also this point where, oh, shit, I'm a people pleaser and I'm moving away from it. So it's almost like this magnet that's going back and forth and it's pulling me this way, pulling me that way. And then you kind of. You feel the pull. It's very heavy. At the same time, I'm cleansing myself with some, I don't know, those things that are happening that I know I need to be that way. So how I'm experienced this. I'll go back a little bit. I joined Weight Watchers about a month ago, and every time I lost an ounce, I got on a scale in the morning. I'm like, yes, that's an ounce. So that's how I'm describing my people pleasing. I'm putting down an ounce at a time. You're leaving it back and it's staying there and it's not coming back to me. So it's a very. I have to have a visual on it and say, I feel bad. I feel like I left some people behind. I feel guilty. I feel so many emotions. But I have to look at those ounces that I left behind as victories for me to find me. Because now I'm at a cross point where who am I really? And changing into a different type of people pleasing. It's a different perspective. So that's how I'm identifying. So when I get on the scale in the morning and I lost an ounce, it could be an ounce. Now I'm down £12 night. So, yeah, it just goes to show where I'm at. And so when I. I give myself Victory, what can I learn today? How can I handle things differently? But also at the same time it makes you hyper vigilant, like, am I pleasing this person for the right reasons? So it comes with some other baggage, but I think in time it's making me stronger to say at least I'm aware of it and I can handle things differently. And yesterday was one of those days at work, or I handled things differently and it was very nice. I thought, oh, yeah, that's a heavy 12 pound victory for me.

Yeah, that's amazing. So I'd love to share with the listeners. So what Norma's talking about is she listened to the people pleaser episode on the do the thing podcast with Dr. Nancy, and it was something I've been going through. I've had the people pleasing thing for a while and it's been something that I've been working on. And so I'm working through this quiz right now for you guys where I'm doing this. What's stopping you from doing the things you want? And one of the Personas is a people pleaser. Because with the people pleaser, you have no time. You're constantly doing things for other people, so your time is not your own. Not to say that you're not okay to do things for other people, but when you're doing them, we want it to come from a place of insight, not because you're seeking validation from others. And so I'd love to just kind of talk about how that episode affected you and then how you got to this point where now you're really starting to acknowledge what's been happening.

Well, I listen to the podcast about disease or really crushed me. It crushed my heart, my soul, everything. And like I said before, to know that I did this to myself, I didn't have those skills. I was very, very young when I found out with my mom at the age about 6 or 7 years old when my dad died. I was trying to please her, make her happy again. And so that was kind of where my all that trait came from. And then never wanted anybody to feel what I felt growing up. Like your whole life changed. You don't have your father anymore and your mother is emotionally passed. So you're trying to make sure no one else feels that way. And I think that's another thing I develop. I don't want no one to feel sad. So I'll do whatever I can to make them not sad. I'll take care of them because I wasn't taken care of. So I kind of developed these Traits that they might be good traits, but not the way I was doing it. I didn't have the traits doing it. I. I actually did it for the right reasons. I didn't want them to feel sad or pain or anything like that. So those were the right reasons. They weren't to validate myself. But as time goes by, you do look at what you did to yourself by people pleasing other people, always giving up your time. Yeah, I'll exercise later and I'll do what they need. And if you don't, you feel guilty. So you want to do double duty so that guilt will go away. So it really is pleasing yourself in the wrong kind of way by giving it to somebody else. And it's just a crashing burn. That sinking feeling inside that was like, how could I have done this to myself? But I didn't have the skills. I was young. But 51 years later, here I am finding out now, despite that podcast just sent me thinking, wow, that was my missing piece of my puzzle because I have gone to therapy, say, what can I do? How can I fix myself? You know, therapist would say, just tell yourself every day you like yourself. And I'm like, yeah, that's not doing it. There was something that I needed, very concrete, something that they weren't giving me. They were just telling me, just tell yourself you like yourself, and just tell people no and just different things that it was. There was something so missing. And throughout years, I just felt not pulled together. And then when I heard that, I'm like, that's my missing piece. I am so busy giving myself away, I didn't get to myself. And so when we look at that, like they always say, when you're on a plane, put the oxygen mask on yourself so you can help other people. I was giving them my oxygen mask. And so I felt empty and depleted and out of sorts and valued their opinion more than I valued my own. There's so many dynamics that come to people pleasing and how you lose yourself in all kind of ways. And now I'm at this point where I'm actually saying, who am I? And it's scary because that's a very hard question for myself. I know I'm very strong. I know I have a lot of intuitions that I never follow because I'm here. I know that I have a drive. I know that I have this happiness inside of me, yet I still feel lonely. So by finding that piece of the puzzle, I'm going through loneliness right now as I'm rebuilding myself. But it's because you're moving out of your comfort zone. So now it's this whole new world and you're kind of doing it all by yourself and still kind of without guidance, like you're trying to figure yourself out. But now I have questions that I want answered, like, how can I get to the next level myself, with dignity, without pleasing, but still maintain my kindness? So there's a lot of work that's still going on.

Yeah, I totally get that. I actually. Because I worked with Dr. Nancy directly too, and so it's something where she's helped me personally with it. And I remember before I would do anything, there was a while when I was still working through with this thing. My first instinct, when someone needs something, it's for me to help them out of my heart. But I had a thing where I had to ask her first so she could help me kind of identify if it was coming from inside or coming from outside. And so anyway, now I actually am able to pause and do it on my own because it's been a while since it's been through. But it is very hard because your instinct is to want to give. But then what happens is there's nothing left for you, right?

Yeah. You have to. One no at a time is basically where I'm going with it. 1 no. Somebody asks, I don't have to say no. You should be able to be like, oh, yeah, I'll do it now I'm gonna make it back to you and let me think about it. I'm not really sure. I may have other plans. So I'm giving myself pause. What I'll say no. And any interaction I have with somebody, I'm kind of doing that right now until it becomes very habitual that, like you said, you'll know right away without asking yourself. It'll become a better habit.

Yeah, I love to hear. So it's great because now you're self aware and you feel like you found that missing piece and now you're still doing the work to get through it. And I'd love to hear how. Because you were in the find your voice challenge, the start a book challenge. How have those challenges sort of helped you in addition to finding that episode?

Oh, I guess. I mean, I had. I really had to search inside and re restart my story from the beginning, from basically when my dad died. I guess that's when a lot of my story begins. Although there were stories beforehand because I remember fond memories of my mother giving us love and care. But it was then that I felt like I lost myself And I had to go back and they always say what would you say to your younger self? And I guess that's where I'm at now. I'm going back and saying to that 6 or 7 year old, your mom is still there and she loves you and she's very proud of you. All these things you have to go back in time and talk to that person, Talk to your 12 year old self, talk to your 16 year old self and because there's a lot of things that happen when you become a people pleaser that you can't change the pattern of life that happened but you have to go back and deal that you can't just, oh, 51 years later I got my piece and that's it. Now you have to kind of go back and rebuild your life emotionally. You have to do it because I think when you become a people pleaser, I think because I identify it when my father died, that's where I have to go back and heal and give myself those affirmations that I so wanted from my mother or my brother or life in general. And so that's what I'm doing during outlife and kind of just reliving it an emotional way. So it's difficult because you're still trying to reach for help and nobody's reaching out.

Yeah, you're getting to kind of see where things are but with your eyes open now.

Yes, yes. I don't know, I, I know I got lost a little bit there but I'm not sure how to say some of the things that are going on because sometimes you feel shame and you feel guilt, you feel stupid. Why didn't I know better? Well, I had no skills but now I have the skills and I'm relearning life back over. Like I said, some people decided not to come along for the ride because I know I'm pleasing them their way. So you lose yourself and you lose people. But I'm hoping to find a healthier me along the way. And I think through all of this it explains the relationships I've been in, explains where I'm going. Just like a lot of things that become aware and you still feel damn. Wish I knew but now and I have to deal with right now so I can't even say rebuild my self worth but start my self worth right now. And so just little by little, one healthy bite at a time, one extra step during the day, one less negative thought, just something to get that self work. Because I think with people pleasing you lose your self esteem, you lose Self worth because your identity is no longer yours, it's theirs. That's what I feel right now.

Yeah, I'd love to hear too. For people that are listening and they're like, what is Norma talking about? People pleasing. Okay, oh my gosh, that sounds like a lot like me. And so like for those people that are listening and that are like realizing, oh my gosh, I've been doing that. Since you're now a little bit into this, what's some advice you have for them?

Well, I think the advice is, how are you feeling? What's going on? I know with friends they can take a lot of your time and can you bring this up? Can you do this? Can you do that? Just different things, like you're aware of how you feel around that person and then you have to stop and think, I have a best friend. I mean, we've been friends for 45 years. At this moment we're not talking because I'm questioning her. Where is our boundary line? I need a boundary line. Like you're texting me between three or four o' clock and I'm running. I asked you not to. You don't care. And that was a boundary line for me. I need some space. And it kind of became like, what's wrong with me? Why can't we go back and do what we want? You can read the text in the morning, you can do this, you can do that. So when you feel uncomfortable, when somebody's not listening to you. And not that I wanted my friendship to end. I hope it's not going to let me end it, but hope we give some space. But those were some tough. You have to ask, how do you feel about this person? Do you feel drained? I was, I was feeling drained. Do you feel that you gave from your heart and not gay just to shut them up? I think that was another thing for me. It was like, yeah, here, I'll do it for you. Just so you can just go away. And those are some things that I was learning about myself. And also I think that you want that friend in your life. Are you doing it because you want something? So you're going to give all of yourself something. I think that was key thing for me. I'm trying to change people for your needs. So kind of become. Comes so mixed up and. But I know for me I needed boundary runs. I didn't have anything. It was like, you want it, you can have it. And I paid a high price for that. So how you do. How do you feel? Is that with my first marriage, I felt completely drained and empty. I was dead. There was no communication, there was nothing. And I, I walked. After 27 years, I was with a man that I, I was already dead with and no communication. And I stayed to please my kids. And the backlash of that is my son, he's older, said that no matter how old we are, divorce still hurts. And my daughter, who's the younger, said, mom, why don't you eat them? Years ago you have these emotions. And I thought that I was taking care myself, which I was, but he still had some. Wouldn't talk to me for a couple of years after that because he felt the family was broken and it was because of me. Oh, honey, that family was broken way before I left. But now that we talked and everything, I get it's different. But when you feel those types of things, you need to question yourself. Why are you staying wiry? Just a lot of things. Sometimes I don't even want to talk about similar things. But yeah, it's empty. You feel empty every day. And then I left that relationship, went into another relationship two years later and I stayed for 10 years and that one. And in the beginning, everything was puppy dogs. But then after a while they learned to. I think they learned how to train a people pleaser. They know how to say the right things at the right moment to get 110% out of you while they are only given zero. They know you want that words of affirmation or something like that. And you're like, oh, yeah. Oh, you love me. Yeah, I'll do all of this. But then when the smoke clears and you finally see for what it really is, yeah, that was something that I noticed myself. So yeah, it was hard. And then when I came to this apartment two and a half years ago, like I said with nothing, I had covet no one here to take care of me because no one can come in. No furniture, no nothing. And then that's when you didn't realize, like, how did you get here? And that's when I was seeking therapy. And it's like, no. Nobody could just say no and this is where you're at. And said, well, I know where I'm at, but how can I prevent myself from going in that same direction? And that's when your podcast, that people pleaser we gave out to me, that was my missing piece. And that was like, yeah, I'm going to stand up now and I'm going to be my soldier. Yeah. And I take care of myself in the right way and I don't need a man by my side because that's what my aunt said. We would be nothing without a man. No, I'm better off with that. So I find it right. But yeah, yeah, I'd love to hear.

How did you originally find out about do the Thing? How did you get into the community in the first place?

When I was at my apartment, you couldn't go anywhere. Everything was closed. And I thought in my wacko head with my aunt. Sick. You'll never be nothing without a man. And so I started doing dating sites, and those proved to be just horrible. I mean, they were. The pictures, who they were. I would write things down later, next time we have a conversation, I would say, so, hi. And they had no clue what they were telling me. And so I was just like, oh, I'm done with this. And then for stories on Facebook, it was due to saying dating. And I thought, well, it's different. This looks healthy. This looks. I don't know what it was, but it was very attractive. And so when I joined and I thought, oh, yeah, it's going to be a dating site, but we're going to actually see people. Well, as I said before, it became a dating. Dating to yourself. You're dating yourself about your self discovery and what do you like and all. It was just a lot of, like, all of your challenges. It was really, really nice because it was like, I don't even know. I want to say, where's Waldo? And that's kind of how I thought about it. So we're gonna go out and talk to the stranger. We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. So it's like this Rears Waldo type kind of thing. And so I enjoyed it because I am adventurous like that. So I'm not very. I think I'm shy, but I'm not that shy, so it's nice. And then through this whole journey, I thought, wow, this is who I am. This is who I am. This is what I like. And so I'm starting to discover myself in between that and then do the thing, write a book, and now do the podcast. There are so many things that are just intertwining with each other.

Yeah.

But yet they're unraveling at the same time. So I don't know. It was weird. It was like the other day I was in my closet looking for an outfit, and I thought, oh, I don't even like these clothes. These are clothes that my friends have. Then you should wear this, you should wear that. And I'm, oh, yeah. And, like, I never felt comfortable with my own clothes, so I was people pleasing. Okay, I'll work for you. So you. There's just so many things, but you're due to think podcast, do the thing, dating, do the thing book. It just was all these steps that have gotten me here. And I know I sound all mixed up because I am. I am a little bit mixed up because there's so many thoughts in your head and you're scared to say what you're really feeling, so you're trying to hold back a little bit. But yeah. Yeah.

And I'm excited for you because I feel like you're right on the cusp of it. And I feel like as you go through this next challenge, everything that you've done already is leading you to this one. And with how you take the challenges and you're able to do the dares, I just know that the growth is going to come from you doing the challenge, but then also after it too. And I think it's gonna just be that extra hump that's gonna help a lot. So I'm so excited about that for you.

I think when we did the interview for the dating, I feel like he's here, he's there within arm's reach. I still feel that. And when I did Divorce Recording Free the other day, I felt so sad and so lonely and stuff like that, but I know it's just transformational thing that you go through, like a cleansing, but I still feel like he's there. He's just right around me. I'm not allowing myself to be opened yet. And so I know with the next challenge, I think maybe the podcast or with the new dating challenge, I think that I'm ready. I'm so ready for it. Before, I was still scared, and I think I was scared not of the challenges, but of not knowing who I was because I was a people pleaser. And I was so afraid that getting into another relationship, no matter what it was a friendship, a co worker, that I was going to be too giving. And because that was my identity, and I was so afraid that if I got into a relationship that I would become that person again. Or now I'm like, oh, no. Hell no. So, no.

Yeah, it's nice. It's kind of what I wanted. With the dating challenge, I noticed so many people were kind of exhausted and depleted, and it was just coming off of dating apps and the whole thing. And so that's where these other challenges came up. Because originally I was just doing the dating challenge, and Then these other challenges came up because I wanted to build people back up again. So then when you went out dating, you'd meet someone where you're at now, not someone at the lower level.

And that's where I feel like with my self worth, this is where I'm at now. But every day I'm one healthier plate or one healthier thought and that builds your self esteem up and self worth because you gave it away. People pleasers just give it away. And then they wonder why they're so depleted because they don't even realize I'm doing it. But if they could just see how is this person making me feel. There's challenges with life you can't do every day. But that's a different type of.

Yeah.

Of feeling tired, but just people in general. I left one of my jobs because of that. Because I was exhausted with the person I was working for and it was time for me to leave. I, I was coming home crying every day and I was like, I just want to tell her. It was like, of course I'm not going to tell her. So I would leave that job crying every day because I had to release all that energy and I was like, oh, I had to leave. So I left it and I'm in a better place. But changes is hard. And you go back and even into this job I'm at now, you still want to please your boss. You want to do good work and be recognized for it. So you are a people pleaser on the right way. So there is a wrong and there is a right. So you feel good leaving that not only you're going to get a paycheck, but your integrity left on that table. So that's what I think. The difference between what type of people pleaser are you? Because they're a good in that.

Yeah. I'd love to hear what else you've learned doing the challenges. What are the things have you learned about yourself or about people?

People will use you as long as you let them. I hate to say it like that, but they will, they will use you. But there's a lot of good people at this community that you have going on. Everybody seems to be missing something and that's why we all connect. It's like a one big. It is a big community and there's no judgment, which I think with other, with your friends or family or work life, there's always judgment. And I think with this community that you have established, there is no judgment or at least nobody's expressing it. There really isn't I think people are like, wow, she went through that too. And I don't feel so bad about myself. Yeah, we're not shaming anybody. We all feel empathy towards people. And I think I won't change my kindness. I'm changing who I give it to. I think that's, that's one thing that even with my family, my daughter especially, like, can you pick me up from work? She gets off at 11:30 at night. I'm up at 5. I finally said, get a car or get an Uber, because I can't, I can't continue. It's been three years, son. You have to make a change. And she was mad for a while, but she found her dad to do it for her, so it's okay. So I realized, like, I feel guilty, like, is she gonna be okay? She's gonna be ready. Go through these scenarios in your head. She's okay. She found someone else to. And those people, do they, they will find somebody. I don't want to talk negative about my daughter. She'll be fine. She's strong willed and she'll fuck. But I was always the mom, the giver. Yeah, mom, give it to you all. But I just, I'm finding just loneliness right now is what I'm finding. But I think it's a good loneliness. Not the loneliness I felt with people that were in my life and I still have certain friends, but my long term friend, I'm still wondering what's going to happen with that. But I felt lonely in that relationship. I felt exhausted in that relationship where now I feel lonely, but not in an exhausted way. Maybe I want life to happen immediately, like, okay, come on, move out. My life doesn't work that way. Time, you have to let it work itself out, be patient. And maybe that was another thing. I was rushing life. I always said I'd never stop and smell the roses. Well, yeah, I'm learning to do that. And every. Well, my morning, I do, I do have my morning time. I listen to the birds and drink my tea, but the rest of my life is busy. I don't know what happened from the time I left my house to the time I got back. It's like, what happened? It's a whirlwind. I'm learning to slow down a little bit. Enjoy. People know that we all have struggles and that we all need support and that some people was. They were meant to just not be there in your life for a reason. But I don't know, I'm learning more. I just. Maybe too many things I self reflected so much that you feel like you owe the world, like you didn't belong in the world or something like that. Like you're a misfit. There was a lot of things that I was going through, like maybe I wasn't meant to be here. Maybe there's another world out there that like that lay the misfit toys. Maybe maybe this is it. Maybe you're do the thing.

Maybe I actually it's so funny that you say that I refer that sometimes when I join groups because I like to join groups where it is the land of misfit kids because I've always felt different. I'd love to hear about how you're feeling about the startup podcast challenge.

Oh well, I mean just in your pre dare, watching it, it's so exciting. Especially where Deb, how she evolved. I'm so astounded. She is just so in charge of herself. She almost says she's unstoppable. So I'm hoping that I come out half unstoppable because she really is a take charge kind of person. But she knows who she is at her core and I'm not there yet. And I think that this podcast pull more out of me and so that's what I'm hoping to gain. And who knows, maybe I'll look back on this a year from now and say, oh, who is that person?

Yeah.

Or anymore.

I would love to hear what you're nervous about for the start of podcast challenge. What's scaring you? Is there anything that's kind of lingering there?

Maybe, you know, how are you portrayed, how people review you? Do you really have anything to say? I always say sometimes I do have that Peter Pan in me. Is it going to come across so mature that people are going to be like, oh that's hogwash. I'm just going to shut it off. Or am I ever be able to touch somebody and reach out? Yeah, I'm glad I listened to her or something like that. So there's back and forth, up and down. Fear is always there. I think everybody's got that fear of being rejected. So yeah, just going to go for it because I probably will never run into, you know, I don't know, going on a trip in two months. So who knows, I might run into somebody.

Yeah, what has you doing it anyway? How are you able to get yourself to do it?

I'm a fighter. I like challenges. Rejection is so hard. When I was leaving my job, I knew I had to find a job before I left the job. That's what everybody says. And it's true. You really need to be in a job. And so you go on these interviews and you're like, well, they either like you or they don't like you. And you've got to put yourself out there. And so that's kind of how I'm looking at it. As interviews. You're either going to catch people or you're not. That's just, what else can you do? So I hope that I help somebody. And there's a lot of things that you don't realize that you're doing to yourself. And as I do, self discovery, and maybe I'll write little short stories and then that'll be my podcast about certain scenarios in life. But I think that life just was. It was handed to me and I here's a deck of cards. And I had to figure it out. And some things I think I did very well, and some things felt miserably at. But that's okay. I'm here. So I'm just gonna look at it as interview. That's what we're doing now, actually.

Yeah, I think you're a priority. It's your second one, so.

And the more you talk, more you get comfortable with it. So sometimes it's hard for me to put my heart into words, and sometimes, like that recording, that was probably raw for me. But when you start thinking and really thinking and you can get there, it's the only place to be. But I have nothing to lose because if you don't move, you're going to be right at the same spot. So I have to challenge myself to get out of here. Get moving.

Yeah. Do you mind talking about that? The quote, what happened with that? Because I think that's probably cool for people to hear what happened there. So just to give you guys some clarity around the voice note Norm was talking about, she messaged me a quote that was so compelling that it moved me as I read it. And then I knew she was joining the startup podcast challenge, so I gave her just a personal dare and said, hey, why don't you just read that quote and then say what comes alive for you as you're reading it? And then she sent me a really beautiful voice note about what it meant. I'd love to just kind of talk about that for a minute because I feel like there's a lot in that that people don't realize. You can just read something and look at it one way and it impacts you one way, but when you can verbalize it and activate your voice, it Changes the meaning completely.

Yeah, that's probably something you should just play, just push play, because that's when you're in that moment and something catches you emotionally. It grabs you, and there's a lot of emotion behind it.

So how does it change for you when you just look at a quote with your eyes and then all of a sudden you voice it? What was that like for you?

Well, I think it was almost your people pleasing podcasts, like when you hear it and then you reflect deep inside and those words are speaking to you on the inside, and you're like, wow, there's something about it that becomes that voice for you that you've been trying to get out. And so when I listened to that, you know, I was reading that mem and I thought, wow, this is something I need to learn to be kind to myself with. And because it almost gives you a pause in life, there's a lot of wrong motions with that. And sometimes it's. You don't know what's going to catch you. I think that's what happens is something that catches you unexpectedly and then all these motions are flowing through. You can hear it, I think, a million times, but finally I'm hearing it the right way. It can change what you've been trying to get at for a long time. I can't even put into words. I'm sorry. Just.

Oh, my gosh, Norma, you just did. It was amazing. What you're saying is so important because it really speaks to what I'm doing with these challenges. And you keep saying how I'm creating the space for you guys and all that stuff that you're amazing and sweetness that you're always saying. And literally what you just said articulated exactly what I've been trying to do. I'm trying to show everybody how these different ways, whether it's writing a book or finding your voice or dating and meeting people, or now starting a podcast, all these different ways that you're putting out information, getting your voice activated, and being able to free your thoughts, it changes everything. And it's like, you can't just do it one way. I mean, you can, but to get the most growth, it's being able to do it all these different ways. And then when the podcast challenge starts, then you get to do it like we're doing it with another, and you get to have these great conversations with it, which then opens up a whole nother layer of healing and growth.

Yeah, killing everybody's interpretation of healing, it doesn't go away. What's going on in your life. Just go away. It's learning how to be different with what was done or said or whatever. So you don't have to beat yourself up all the time or you don't have to replay that record over, just change it. Because playing that same scenario over and over and over, I had to put a stop to that because I was doing that stuff. What's the matter with me? What is the matter with me? And nothing's the matter with me. It was actually, when I look at it, people pleasing. I'm a kind person, and there's people that were not. Maybe they weren't so kind. If they can sit there and take advantage of me. And I'm asking, could you not do this or do that? And they didn't respect me, then it's more about them, not about me. So there was some of that learning that I had gained through that, too, that it wasn't just me, but I played a huge part. And I think. I think that was a big thing. Me, too, is I can own what I've done to my own self. I can't say they did it. I. I was a part of it. And then what? Just them. I'm. Me, too. It's two. Two people in that game. No matter who you're with, if you're with a partner or you're with a friend or whomever, there's two people there or more.

But. Yeah. What do you want to say to Norma five or six weeks from now after she's done with the podcast challenge?

Oh, my gosh. Oh, I hope to say you did it. I don't know. Your dreams came true. You're a warrior. Continue to be there for. I had. I don't want to say everyone else, but I do, because I kind of felt like I was a warrior and in a lot of people's lives and, you know, I helped protect a lot of them, and I got hurt along the way, but I still want to be that warrior. But more. I don't know. I don't want to say aware warrior, but I feel. I don't know. She's coming. I guess she's coming. That's all I got to say. She's coming. So how about in five weeks we find out? Yeah.

What advice do you have for people that haven't joined the community yet or maybe they just joined? What advice do you have for them at least in joining or in being able to do the challenges?

Don't miss out on your opportunity. This is it. If you will find something about yourself. That says I need to come back. It's not because you're missing something. It's because you're exploring yourself and you want to explore more. So jump in. Don't let this pass. Just go for it. The first time. It might seem silly and like, oh, what's this? But at the same time, you're just like, I'm it. I can't let it go. And I think what you said yesterday about you want to do some bears for the other people so they don't feel left out if they're not in the podcast, keep them engaged. Because some people, once you close the book, they may not ever pick it back up. So I think that these people that if you haven't opened up the book, open it up, because this is an amazing adventure that you're going to go on and you're going to be thankful that you did it. And I always said, why didn't I find it sooner? And you're going to feel the same way. There's just on this, on a sign that we'll do that sign that later is a couple things, but just jump in. It's fun. It costs you nothing, and you will feel better about yourself. You'll meet amazing people. Stacy, our host, she's amazing. Come on, you gotta give her a hand because it's all about us. It's not even about her. And I think that's we give her all the credit, but she's given us all the credit and that's what makes this work. So dive in. Jump in.

What would be your number one piece of advice for people on doing the thing?

Have fun. I think that if you are in your head, get out of it. What's the worst that can happen? I went through one of the challenges and I did stop, but it was because of someone that made me stop or I let them make me stop, I should say. But just keep going. Be as silly as you can be. Embrace all of it. It is so much fun. Who knows what will come out of it? You might find a new love, you might find yourself. You might find a new hobby, you might find new friends. There's so many things that can happen here, so just go for it. It's just so much fun. It's like an addiction. It's like, what's coming next? But it's what's coming next for me. But then when I see other people that are growing and they're growing a little bit faster because I'm not with on my own journey and some of them already had surpassed some of the things that I'm just dealing with now. So I always try to live life like, I think one of the things is, for me, it's a turtle and a hare. I was so busy trying to be the hare, and now I want to be the turtle. I want to smell everything that goes along the way in my travels, and I don't want to miss a thing, because the end is coming whether we like it or not. So why not be the turtle in your life and have fun?

Thank you so much for doing this with me, Norma. I always enjoy getting a chance to talk to you, and I can't even tell you how excited I am to see you in the startup podcast challenge. I think it's going to be so much fun.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, and it's always a pleasure. And I can't wait to see what comes out of this and hear everybody else's podcast. I think it's going to be great because there's so many things I want to learn from people. So thank you for having me again.

Yeah. And for the listeners, do the thing. Don't wait for opportunity. Create it.

Create it.

Whoa.