Episode 264: Mara Palermo: Crafting Love with Insights from an Attachment Expert #attachment

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. Well, you guys, I love these moments because I'm in a group with my next guest in a, it's actually a software group, which is so funny because you wouldn't think you could meet someone that's really cool and that's doing something similar as you in a software group. But we were on a group call and she was talking about how she helps people with relationships and attachment styles, and I immediately was drawn to her and messaged her on the call and said, I've got to interview you on my podcast, bring you in my community, because I totally believe in what you're doing and I know that the people in the community and you guys listening on this podcast are going to be wanting to know this information because it's so important, you guys to know yourself and to be able to know the person that you're with and people that you're meeting, because the more you know them and the more you know yourself, the more you're going to be able to tap into the deepest part of yourself and the relationship. And so I am super excited to welcome my next guest to the show. Hey, Mara.

Hey, how are you? I am glad to be here.

Yeah, I am so excited. I know we just talked before we hit record and I'm like, I literally could be talking to you about this all day. We better hit record before.

Exactly.

Yeah. So, okay, so for everyone listening, I'd love to have you share. Let's start with your story. Let's hear how even all this started.

So I am a relationship and attachment coach and I, I, I will say this journey probably started decades ago. However, my background is in the beauty industry, so I owned a salon. I've been in this industry for many, many years. And that's where it, like, really started. Didn't know that at the time, but, you know, just being coined the beauty therapist and being behind that chair and, and having conversation after conversation with so many women throughout my career. And it's like creating that intimate setting and that space for women to just feel seen and heard. And 90% of the time we're talking about relationships, they're either getting married, they're getting divorced, they need to leave that relationship. And so I'm there throughout their whole journey. And what's awesome was I was always really obsessed anyways with like transformation. So I loved being able to make them feel better about themselves. However, sometimes what I was doing was only going to be skin deep. Right? So you can't really just do the outside when things are going on internally. And so that's going to require a different set of skills. Right. So when I was also going through my own relationship journey, if you will, and I felt like at the time I had my business, I loved it, was successful in that. But then it was like relationships just seemed like this puzzle to me. And so it was like kind of like a up and down roller coaster. So when I started really diving into why people do what they do, why is this happening? I was just so intrigued because I was like, what is going on? There's gotta be another way. But I had no idea. I didn't have the skills right at that time in my life. I didn't have the awareness and I didn't know my part in it, right. And thought it was like the other person always. So going through that journey. Once I became aware of like what attachment theory is and what attachment styles, where I was like, oh my God, I feel so seen. And I'm not crazy. I really, like, this is something that is very valuable. And now I can understand why things are happening the way that they are. And it was very empowering to understand that I have learned these types of patterns and then I can actually unlearn them and create something new, which I didn't think was possible. I just kind of thought, well, this is just the way that I am or it's always going to be like this or like relationship maybe just aren't for me, so let me just avoid them completely. But going through this journey was really eye opening and realized that a lot of women were struggling with the same thing that I was. So that's where I decided to work with women on a deeper level. So that the transformation isn't just externally, it's also internally. So that's what I'm doing now these days.

It's so amazing to me and I love that you use the word obsessed. Because I feel like when you are struggling with something and then you figure out how to tap into that struggle and come on the other side of it, it is. It's like an obsession then where you feel like you want to help everyone because you're like, wait, why are you guys struggling? I have the secret. I've already been through it. I love that you use that word. I don't think a lot of people use that word. And I feel that way where it's like you have that conviction in what you're doing. How do you think that came to be? Because I feel like a lot of people, they feel that, but then they won't come on the other side and be able to share it.

Right. For me, I think it was. I think when I was going through it. Right. It's sometimes when we're in pain, if we're in that pain, it's so hard for us to believe even that there's something else on the other side of that. We can actually tap into something else. And so I feel like, for me, as I was slowly chipping away at some of these patterns or shifting things, it became more and more apparent to other people as well, too. Like, they can see that transformation. They can see those changes. And I think the conviction comes from just staying committed to what it is that I really want to create. And then it's like, as I'm seeing things evolve and change and right before my eyes and also with, like, clients, too, I become that more obsessed with it. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. So it's funny, but every time I'm doing a challenge, it's like, everything opens up around that challenge I mentioned before. I'm doing the find your voice challenge right now, where it's, like, literally helping people tap into finding their voice. And it sounds like that's what you did. Right. And I'm just wondering, because there's still something that holds people back from being able to open up in that way. And I'm just curious how you were able to really do that. And did you ever have that experience where you were hiding before? Like, there was this release because you. Yeah, this thing.

Yeah. Because I feel like when this is going back many years ago, but at the time I remember I just opened my salon, and I think I had no idea what that was going to be like, owning a business. Right. And just the stress and all the things that just started coming with it, which I actually felt like I probably wasn't the most secure at that time because it was, like, early 20s, and you know what I mean? Just, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is a lot of undertaking. There's so many things to learn. So when I was doing that, I think that was when I started really getting stressed out to the point that I had an eating disorder. I think it was just, like, the control. I just didn't feel safe. I didn't know what was going on. I really didn't know. And at that time, I couldn't find help. I know it sounds great, but, like, I couldn't find, like, trying to find the help. I was like, I don't know. This is not Right. That's all I knew. And I was trying to find a therapist at the time. Nothing. And someone that specialized obviously, in this specific thing because I was like, oh my God, this is really creating some kind of havoc in my life. And so then I remember I drove a couple of times out, hour and a half to meet with this person, and it was just not the right fit at all. And I was like, this can't be this hard. Now, this was before Internet and all the things, right. So it wasn't easy and accessible. Now it's like you want to work on something, you can just go to Google, right. Or you can find free resources. So I think at that point I just kept seeking and I was like, I'm going to have to figure this out. And I think it was like reading books and I was getting involved at that time. I was involved in this church, anything that was community. But often I think at that point I was isolating myself to isolating myself from relationships, isolating self from people that knew me because I didn't want to dare tell them. But it was easier for me to go to complete strangers.

So that's where I was seeking that type of support. And I'm glad that I did because I feel like it helped me to. I wasn't comfortable sharing what was going on with me with close people for a while.

Yeah, I feel that I did that too with do the thing where I kept everything in my private Facebook group, but nothing was on my personal profile any. Nothing out in the public, definitely not on LinkedIn. And everything was in this group of just people that I just met and got inspired to do it. And so, yeah, I think there is something powerful about almost when you're wanting to go into this new expansion. Right. It's like you want to almost be able to really tap into who you are. And it's easier to do that sometimes when you're able to do without all the other noise around you.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Right. Because it's like you're not really sure you're. You know, there's a fear too, of being judged. There's a fear of, oh, my gosh, like, if I tell people I don't want to be like a burden and there's like all these things, you know, I could figure this out on my own. And so it does create a little bit of like, that isolation. But that was like, what became apparent, right, that I just felt like, so disconnected from myself, really, and didn't have the type of trust. And it was very hard on myself too. So it was trying to. To strive and have all these things, everything put together and making. But then that was just crumbling my insides. And then I just felt like, okay, I am missing something here. And that's where that journey of self discovery started for me to really see.

Wow.

I didn't realize that I had this view of myself. Right. And if I didn't really care or love myself in that way, and I was very hard on myself, it's like, okay, now I can kind of see why X, Y and Z is showing up in my life. So. Yeah.

So if someone's listening and they're wanting to write that book, they're wanting to start that business, they're wanting to start the podcast, whatever it is that want is. And I'll get to the relationship next. But I feel like right now I'm in your. This part of the do the thing story where you're literally kind of coming into your own. What do you think will help them just get out of their own way and be able to actually do the thing that they want?

Well, I feel like what shuts us down sometimes is it seems so big in our mind, right? In that we have to all these things in place beforehand. But like you said, let's say, for example, if it's like you want to start a business. Yes. If you're thinking of like five years down the road or what it looks like, it's like, oh my gosh, I don't know where to start. However, it's like, then to start with something like, what is it that you really like to do? It's those little steps and if there's someone that you actually trust, then it's like talking to people. Because I feel like sometimes if we talk to the wrong people, they might think you're crazy because their fear now is getting put onto you. So it's having that person that's like, hey, this is what I really am thinking about doing. And have someone that's like on your team. Because now they're going to be like, oh, wow, that's awesome. You should totally do that. I could see that. Or whatever. And I think we can't escape the fear because no matter what, it's always going to be there. It's you. Just when we start to get more into action, we just kind of, you get used to it, you get stronger so that the next thing isn't maybe as difficult, but that's where the confidence grows so that you can continue on. I think sometimes we think I'm not very confident, but you're not going to just appear confident. You know, like, one day we wake up and we're confident. It's taking those really small actions and celebrating that. Like, oh, my God. Today I research for 15 minutes all about blank how to start a podcast. Or I reached out to someone and talk to them, and it's like, those little things are those little stepping stones. I realized for me, that's kind of how I would think I would be like, oh, my gosh. And think the biggest. I have to do all these things at one time, and I don't recommend this.

Yeah. It makes me think of the group that we're in. Jenna talks about celebrating the action and not the result. I know I'm initially connected to that because back in the old days, I did sales, and I would actually not focus on the amount of sales I got. It was door to door when I was in college and a lot of other stuff since then. But I'd always focus on the door that I knocked on, whether they said yes or no, because that was a numbers thing. But, yeah, that whole idea of celebrating the action and not the result, that's so powerful because I think so many times we don't. And then we don't even realize how much growth we're having just through the actions that we're doing. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I remember when I was terrified just to even come on camera, and I was like, oh, my God, what do I say? I don't know. It was all these things. And I just remember my friend was like, just do it. And so at that time, when I first started coaching, I had a business partner, and we were in a different niche, but he's like, we're going on together. He just hit record. And it was so funny because that's really, like, sometimes you need that. You need that person who believes in you maybe more than you believe in yourself at that moment, but can kind of push you along a little bit to just get the ball rolling. And I'm so grateful that he did that.

Oh, my gosh. I love that you just said that. I think that's where I'm going. I never have been this. I don't want to say annoying. Maybe I have. I was like this. But the podcast challenge, and I was knocking people over the head, like, you had to start a podcast. It's the coolest thing ever. And I'm feeling like this now at the find your voice, where I have never been so obsessed. I'm using the word now with telling People, you just have to like, I believe in you, you just have to do it. But anyway, yeah, I just. I feel like your words are really speaking to me today because I think, yeah, it's part of that conviction and really tapping into the things you want. I'd love to hear more about what you're doing with people and helping them with relationships. Cause I think that's a whole do the thing. So we went through your do the thing journey with how you kind of tapped into this. And now you had to realize that you got outta your own way, and now you did that. But now you're helping people do the thing with relationships, which is key because, yeah, you could be married 40 years and you could be not happy, and that's not good. Or you could be with a partner that maybe you shouldn't be anymore and you're scared to leave or whatever, or dating, and you are dismissing people because of past protection. And I'd love to just kind of hear how you approach that.

Oh, my God, absolutely. And the clients, they're all coming to me for different things. Right. But at the end of the day, they're just really want to have that type of harmonious relationship. Right. It's like they want to either, okay, stop picking the same partner over and over again. Right. Where it's like leading into nothing, or it's like, how can I create more connection in my relationship, Right. And not have to just break up with them or whatever. Yeah. I feel like when I'm working with people, no matter where they're at, I always start with seeing where they're at. On the spectrum of the attachment theory, understanding where you're at, understanding your patterns. And like you said, your previous stuff that maybe you're bringing into that you're not even aware of because we both. It's two people, right? So it's like, there's their stuff, there's your stuff, and then there's the relationship that you're creating together. And so at least if you can focus on what your patterns are, what are these core wounds that are still maybe not healed. Right. Because what happens is if that's what's showing up in the relationship, then you're going to feel a lot of anxiety or you're going to act in a way that maybe isn't the healthiest. So before we start, I want to stop these behaviors. We got to get to the root of it all. So that's kind of how I start working with them, is for them to become aware of those things, Understanding what Their needs and what their wants are, because a lot of times they're not aware of that. And that's what's suffering is we're in sometimes these relationship that we have, these needs that are just being unmet from ourselves, but then also from our partner too. And how can we become more of a partner to ourselves too? So that we're not just looking at our partner for everything. Right. We wanna be able to at least meet ourselves halfway and able to have that type of interdependency with partner.

It's so huge because when you're aware of what you are attachment styles specifically. We were talking about this a little bit before. Then you have language around it and so then you're able to communicate what you need much easier. Whereas when you don't even know, then you just feel crazy. And we were talking about when I first learned my attachment style. I did feel seen for the first time because I was like, oh my gosh, this is actually a thing that's normal. It normalized my feelings in a whole new way.

Yes. Oh, absolutely. And that's exactly how I felt too, because I was like, this is why this is happening. And I can't tell you how many things I've done for relationship and books and this. So many things. And then when I really came across this, and that's why I was like, oh, this makes so much sense. Because it's really how. It's like your unconscious set of rules, right. That for your relationship. Let's say we're all coming together to play this board game, but we all have different rules to the game. And so you're going to have maybe rules to Monopoly. You have rules to all these different games. And now we're trying to create this healthy, loving relationship, but oftentimes we're not aware of that. And what's going on externally, if your partner keeps triggering you, we're like, oh my God, my partner. We're always focused externally on the person, their fault. But really it's just. It's triggering something that's already inside of you that just needs some attention.

Yeah, I love that. So good. So what advice do you have for people that are in that relationship and maybe they're struggling, struggling to connect, struggling with that kind of different point of view and they're just having this hard time. What would be something they could do to do the thing to improve their relationship?

Well, I think it's creating that awareness. Right. It's just seeing how am I showing up in this relationship. Right. And oftentimes I'll have people, one, they could do one or two things. They can understand what their attachment style is. Because even that right there is a huge thing. So when I have people, like I have a quiz like people will take, right? So they're like, oh my gosh, you realize this, this is making sense. Even that having that sense of awareness about why is a huge game changer. So now it's kind of like, okay, I didn't realize that I have a really high need for closeness and every time I'm afraid that I'm going to be abandoned. Let's just say now that you're aware of it, it's kind of like, well, if my partner doesn't call me back, I'm aware now that I have this abandonment wound or whatever. That's strong for me. But is he really doing that or is my abandonment wound just activated in this moment? When we start to look at it in that way now, we're like, oh, okay, so what is it that I need right now? Well, I really would love some validation. I'd love him to text me or whatever, but how can I give that to myself? So then when we start to get on board with ourselves, we start to self soothe and then the anxiety lessens. And then maybe you're not going to say call or text your boyfriend or your partner a million times because you're feeling that anxiety now. You can take that step back. So you can be like, okay, well he's probably just really busy at work. Or it's probably this. I don't think it's that he's necessarily doesn't love me anymore. It's the end of our relationship. Right? He's probably just, if we do that, our mind wants to take us there. So I think just becoming aware of that and just noticing what are my actions when things come up? Think of when you start to look at your own patterns. Okay, when I'm feeling anxious or I'm feeling like this, this is what I do. Well, why, why is that? But so as we start to become aware of that, we're able to see things in a different way and we're taking back the power and we're owning our own stuff.

Do you think people that are also dating, is this the same approach or do you have a different approach when you're dating and attachment styles?

I think it's interesting because sometimes with anxious attachment styles, let's say for example, they really like the closeness. So they're probably going to be the ones that they call them the Love at it, right? So it's like you might meet somebody and what happens is they start fantasizing and putting people on pedestals and they're like, oh, my God, we're gonna have these kids. We're gonna. Right? And so we start doing all these things in our mind after the first date, and when it maybe doesn't pan out that way, we feel like, oh, my gosh, this person doesn't like us. And then we wanna clean or we wanna start initiating. Whereas because they're ready, they're more ready, I should say to him, type of commitment, they want to be exclusive. Usually. Now, the avoidant, who's a little bit more avoidant vulnerability is very scary for them. So they're going to kind of like tiptoe into a relationship. It might take them. It could take them four to six months sometimes to even want to have there to really open up. So I think that's like, if we don't take it personal, just like, this person doesn't like me per se, or I'm not good enough or I'm not this. When you start to understand the styles, then you kind of get, okay, this person's a little bit more avoidant. It's not necessarily they don't like me, they just need more time.

I think that's so huge because it's so easy to either shut someone down because they're not acting as you think they should in your mind, or you're taking something personally and then protecting yourself because you're like, oh, they don't like me, so I'm just not going to be interested.

Exactly. And I get it. I've been there before, you know, where it's that. Oh, it's the in between. Because when you're leaving a little bit more anxious, one of the core needs that you want is certainty. That's certainty that, hey, you're going to be here, you're not going to leave me. Where are we going? That's what it is that we're needing. So if you're aware of that now, it's like, okay, well, how can I give myself the certainty? Because I can't have it right in this moment with this person instead of, hey, we want it from them now, we're always on their timeline, if that makes sense, you know? And so we're like, okay, how can I create this certainty within? Okay, well. And then whatever that looks like. So that's where. If you're leaning a little bit more that way now with fearful avoidance, they're both. They are anxious and avoidant. So that's like the hot and cold where they. They're very much like red. Just kidding.

To them. Right. Getting close to them and all of a sudden.

Yeah.

Because they want that, but then they fear it the same way. And now they're like ghost them. And then what just happened here? Yeah. So again, it's that it's like understanding. Okay. This person very much seems to be like X, Y and Z. But the more you become aware of these types of characteristics and traits, you can spot it a little bit easier. The main thing is you're not taking it so personally. Right. And then you can kind of, if you are a little bit more, say, anxious or a little bit more on the fearful avoid side. It's like learning how to create boundaries and setting those boundaries as you go too. So that you're not. Yeah.

Yeah.

You're speaking to something really powerful. That I noticed when I was running the dating challenges was so many people get sucked dry because this happens. Right. Where they get ghosted or all these different things that go on not texted. And then it builds up, builds up, builds up, builds up. And then eventually you either shut down completely or no one's a match for you because everyone you see is doing that. And you're just constantly having this wall up. And so I think it's important because I think this can help bring the wall down. So then you're not making it about you. Like you said, it's more just.

Yeah.

Or self aware about all of it.

Right. I mean, the hardest thing too is just staying present. Right. Because our mind will take us all over the place. And I think that that was one of the things. I have this one friend, she's so funny because she's working through her anxious attachment style as well. And so that's what she's saying. Oh, my God. After date two, it's like daydreaming of all the things we're going to do. And that's what we fantasize about. And so now we're in this reality. And then when the person doesn't call or maybe it's something different, it's like we hurt ourselves. Right. Because we've made up this big life with this person in our mind. And it's only been maybe the second date. Right. So again, it's allowing yourself to just stay present in the moment, which is challenging. But it's like, okay, this date was great. I really like the. And seeing, hey, do I like this person? Because we're so. Hey, I hope they like me. Yeah.

So, yeah, you're taking the driver's seat.

Right? Right. It's like you're putting yourself in that driver's seat. Because that's just one of the things that it does happen because we put them like, oh, my God, they're so amazing. They're so great. But you know what? So are you. Right. And if they call wonderful, I'd love to go out with them again. And if not, that's okay too, because, see, I'm not going to abandon myself.

Okay, Mara, the time is here. I would love to hear your number one piece of advice for people on doing the thing.

Oh, I think the number one piece of advice that I can give anybody is just that it's really having that courage to whatever it is that you want to do, whether if it's dating, whether it's starting a business, whatever that looks like is just taking one step towards that, just doing it. And it doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be all planned out and then find someone who is your accountability partner. That is something that has been helpful for me to do anything, whether it's wanting to change a pattern, whether it's wanting to work out more, whatever that looks like. When you are bringing someone else into your vision and having someone to hold you accountable, you're more likely to do it.

Yeah, it's really key, especially if it's someone that can.

Challenge you, but also in a way that's supportive and encouraging, too.

Yeah.

Well, please share where they can find your quiz and then any other details about working with you and who you like to work with too.

Yeah, so I tend to work with a lot of, like, ambitious women. Right. They're either in business or they have some kind of leadership role and really can navigate that successfully and also want to have that type of harmonious relationship. But they want to have it all. Right. They want to be able to be successful in business, but then also be successful in the relationship. And usually that part is the challenge for them is how to allow themselves to connect with somebody else. And so that's where I come in and support them through that. So you can find me. I'm on Facebook under Mara Palermo. You can find me on Instagram, Mara Palermo as well. The quiz is there too. So if you want to take the quiz, you can find it in my bio. And also I do offer 30 minute calls to debrief the quiz so that we can debrief the quiz. You can understand uncovering what your patterns are, why they're that way. And then we can start to create a plan for you to move forward.

So thank you so much. This was amazing. I love doing this with you.

Thank you so much, too. I loved it. I love, love, love meeting you. Yay.

And for you guys, do the thing. Don't wait for opportunity. Create it. And hey, guys, have you checked out my Facebook group yet? Go to do the thing community dot com.