Episode 282: Katy Clark: Transform Your Dating Experience with Expert Tips

Hey, guys. We are live.

I have my special guest that you've been hearing about, Dating with Katie. Some of you watched the. I don't even know, I want to say fire. Fire. Fire. Instagram live that you and I did. That was just non stop nugget after nugget that you gave.

We do our best. It's a mess out there, so we got to do our best to help.

Yeah. And so I'm so excited to have you back on because a lot of people, some people aren't on Instagram, so they see it. So we get to kind of, kind of re. Just introduce you and who you are. And then there's so many. I had to ask questions people would have and struggles. And so we're gonna get into all the things. But could you start off and just kind of introduce who you are, what you do, and then we'll get into everything with them.

I love it. Well, my name is Katie. I'm known as Dating with Katie. That's K, T Y. Because the ies are very different, Right? The same Katie's, but different. It's weird. And then I am a luxury matchmaker. So that's my first career. I put really quality people on dates with other quality people. I call them my 20 percenters. We can talk about that in a minute. But through that process of putting people on dates and really just kind of honing through the feedback forms, I realized that just because I put somebody on a first date doesn't mean they get a second date. So through that, I started doing my coaching. So I'm always coaching my clients. But then also on my Instagram, Dating with Katie, my podcast, so much state feedback. I mean, I listened to my podcast today at Are you even flirtable? And it's good stuff. I'm like, this is good stuff. This is good stuff. So check out the podcast. Get in the database. And I work for a company named Sync Matchmaking, so people get a little confused. But I'm just. That's my cute Instagram name. And I'm glad to be on Facebook because I don't do anything on Facebook. It's exhausting. We're both. I'm more Instagram, you're more Facebook. So we. We both jump to each other's team here. So thanks for having me on.

Yeah. I was so excited when you were open to doing this. Because it's true.

Right?

I know Mike Hogan. He's the one that connected us together initially. And I remember he was so nice. He's in the community and just is all things do the thing. And even been a champion in one of our challenges. He heard your podcast and just was blown away by what you do. I just felt that kind of alignment with our stuff. I remember I was even nervous to do the Instagram live, so he even came on with me.

Like, so cute.

Help me do it.

Because I was.

I don't even know. I did a Go Live challenge a year ago and so I had done a live with someone one other time, but it was. I was in momentum of doing Instagram lives. And so anyway, just. It was great because it was fun. Now here you are in my thing. It's awesome. So, all right, let me check in with you guys, see who is here. Oh, Mike is here. Hey, Mike. Good to see you.

Hi.

Hi, Oswald.

Oswald said good evening to you both and to everyone. And I said, still single, though. All right, well, we'll.

We'll travel shoot today.

Yeah. So, okay. Can we talk about sex? Is that okay to start there?

I mean, absolutely.

That was one of the most common and kind of. I was looking at. There was a ton of comments when I asked, what are your questions? And that was one of the most common things that came out of the struggles. Right. Of just what's happening when people are out there. And this so do. The thing is the singles group is guys and girls. It's a mix of everyone, but primarily women. Just so you know. And so one of the things that kept coming up was. Yeah. That they just want to have sex with me. So just wondering what would be kind of something that you think would help them either set it up ahead of time if that's not what they want, or in the middle, or what advice do you have around that?

Those are all great investors with our hearts. And so I have a rule that you don't get her heart until you've earned her head and her trust. Right. So I try to remind guys, I did have a client once, and he said, katie, I've gone on five dates with girl and she hasn't had sex with me. I'm a strong Christian. Not all my clients are. But I just reprimanded him right away. I said, you haven't even committed to her. Why should she give you her body? This is what I. I'm sorry, this is what I say. A woman should never give you her body unless you have her heart. So, ladies, you'd never give away the body unless you decided to have that heart connection. And he's committed and you're committed and you're comfortable with that although I will say a lot of you are out there just wanting to get your wiggles out. It's fair game on both sides, but you can't expect anything else from that. I have a girlfriend right now, she just wants to get her mojo back. I don't recommend it. I think it can mess with your heart and your head. But if you are going to do that, you have to understand the ramification is just because you piss on the tree doesn't mean you get to keep the tree. Sometimes women do have sex thinking, if I have sex with him, he's going to want to pick me. No, just don't expect that. I know people who have have had sex on a first date, got married, great marriage. I know people who've waited till they got married, got divorced. So it can work either way. But you need to know your standard. Steve Harvey says, don't give out the cookies for three months. But you need to know where you stand on that. Don't put yourself in compromising situations. I remember when I was dating, I would wear jeans for really tight jeans in certain situations. If I was going to his house, because I was like, no, there's no entry here, sweetheart. Just because you invited me to your house, you need to be mindful of that. And putting yourself in situations, not drinking too much. And there's no harm in bringing it up, really. I do want to say this. All men want to have sex with you. It's just how men think. So you can't get upset that men just want to have sex with me. They're men. It's okay. At some point you want him to want to have sex with you, right? Because I did a whole podcast on men with Ed. That's actually one of my most listened to podcasts. I have one on sex and then I have one on Ed. So you know what I mean? It's a good thing. He wants to have sex with you. He's physically attracted to you. But you also want him to earn your heart before he earns your body. So make him earn your heart. Make him work for it. This is my number one rule, and I think this is in my fifth or sixth podcast. The four things that every woman should, should watch on a man. Number one is his effort. That's it. He needs to work, ladies. You need to make him work. You only mirror his efforts. So if it's minimal, you're minimal. If it's amazing and you like him, you better show up equal, because these men are not going to crowbar you. Open there's the opposite, too, where some of these women are. So I'm not vulnerable. I'm not giving him anything. As a matter of fact, I could pull this up on my phone right now. I have a client, and he likes this woman, and she's 40, wants to get married and have kids. Here I am helping her out by putting her on a date with a guy who wants to have kids, and he likes her. He says, katie, she just boring. She. She's not flirting. I don't know what to do. So I'm helping her out. Like, hey, just suggesting, maybe be a little bit more flirty. And she's like, what, did you want me to be sexual? I said, no, it has nothing to do with that. But he is not going to crowbar you open. He will move on. And so for a lot of you women, the idea that I'm going to make sure he knows I don't want to have sex. Well, I mean, you don't even want to give him a peck on the lips. He's going to pass. So it's that fine line. But you've got to be flirty. I mean, even she said, I'm not in the mood to flirt, so I'm not going to flirt. No man wants to date that. So be very mindful both ways. If you're going to be a little Miss Stickler about everything, he'll probably pass. And he's probably a good man, too. There's a lot of good men. They're not looking to have sex. They're thinking it. Yes, they are. But they will honor you if they're honorable men.

Ooh. They will honor you.

And I call them the good guy. So not the nice guy, which is the simp, and not the bad guy. But it's. There's good men out there. And so a lot of times you think the good man is like the simp or the beta. He's just a good guy. So he's not going to be that alpha male who's all so fancy and charming. Skip fancy, charming men. Skip them far, far away. No.

Yeah. So while we're here, would you tell her flirting tips. Do you have any kind of good tips for people to flirt with? And let's talk in both. In either range, if you.

Yeah. And sometimes I take notes so my mind get. I can recall my thoughts. So let's talk about flirting, because I'm actually doing. I do a whole Good Morning Texas, and I'm doing a segment this week on flirting. So I have this thing, and it's. Are you even flirtable? Do you even know how to. To flirt back is part of it. Number one, I think, is banter. You've got to learn to be witty and funny and cute, right? So as women and guys can be cute too. I always used to say the biggest compliment I could give a guy was that he was adorable. So. And most guys are like, oh, what does that mean? So an adorable guy, and this is kind of a cute, flirty way to say it, means that I would take him home to meet my mom and I would take him home to my bedroom. So when a guy got the adorable marker, I was like, oh, he's adorable. And see, that's cute already. And that's kind of flirty and fun. So another thing is, women, you just need to be more light and breezy. My girlfriend and I, we have this saying, light and breezy don't make first, second, third dates complicated. When you're complicated, that's already not being flirty. You're just exhaustive. But here are a couple things, and I teach this to all my clients. I just onboarded a new client today, and you've got to learn to say things correctly. So it's tone, especially for us ladies, right? We can get very interview. So, for example, and I want to pull up. I want to pull up the email so I can share all these because they're just. I mean, they're. They're in my podcast, but let me see if I can find them real fast. For example, you always want to say something, like, always have a joke on hand. Okay? So rather than tell me a funny joke, you could say something like this. Let's tell each other a funny joke, and whoever says it best gets to pick dessert. So see how I've made it competitive? I mean, it's fun. Guys love that stuff. They love it when you pull in anything competition. If you even said, I bet I could play pig better than you. Whatever he's talking about, if he's talking about anything, just act like you can beat him at it. And guys love it. They're like, oh, okay, I had a client, he's playing pickleball, okay? And so he went in for a kiss when they were passing each other. But the problem with that, and this is how men should flirt, men should foreshadow what's going to happen. So here's a great example. She could have said, if I beat you, you're going to have to give me a kiss. Or if, if you beat me, you're going to have to give me a shoulder massage for two minutes. So that would have been flirty on her end. He should have said foreshadowing it all. If I beat you, I'm going to give you a kiss when I walk past you. So there's always this idea of foreshadowing playing into the next event, that kind of stuff. Here is my number one tip, though. I encourage people to sit close, close by each other on a date. My husband and I, we still sit next to each other every time we go out to eat. We sit at the bar because you want to be in a proximity where you're going to be able to touch them. Men do not have cooties. Now, here's my rule for men, though. Men do not have the right to touch women until a woman has touched a man. Okay? And now I'm not talking groping. I'm talking flirty touches here. So men do not go in for the touch here. Don't. This is for women and men. You can do something after. But ladies. So sit, sit. Instead of a cross, this is the little too interview. Sit. Maybe caddy corner or try to sit in a booth. And I know some women will first date. I'm not doing that. Well, then don't be dating and don't be dating. Sometimes some of you just, you shouldn't be dating. But if you like a guy, and Matthew Hussey does say this, he says, drop the hanky. Back in the day, women would drop the hanky to give the clue. You got to give men clues. You got. You got to let them know they're doing a good job. There's three things men need. They need to win, they need to be appreciated, and they need to forget it right now. But we'll go back to that one. The three things men need. I've just been formulating that since I've been married. But you're going to sit next to him. You're going to sit close enough where you can kind of tap him. You're going to lean in and you're going to say this. I kind of like you. I kind of like you. Do you see that fun, flirty, like on your eyebrows go up? Or you could say it with your hand on your chin. I kind of like you. And even if you just tap his little shoulder, I kind of like you. I kind of think I'd go a second date with you. I love, like, juxtaposition of. He's like, yeah, I think he likes me. Yeah, it's. It's so cute. It's so fun. It's so. It's easy, too. It's easy. There's so many women who just can't, like, oh, I can't touch him. I'm not gonna touch him.

Yeah.

You know, and it's. I've seen it often where these women who don't flirt, they're a little. I call it flat on a date. They'll get second dates. They don't get. If you're not getting second dates, probably because he feels like he has a crowbar you open. And by the way, by saying that to a guy, it does not mean you're going to marry him. Women think, in will I marry this guy? First date? Is he suitable for the next 17 years? Slow down, slow down. Just here's the rule, ladies. Be the best first date he's ever had, and you'll always have the opportunity to have a second date. So the rose is in your corner. You have the rose, you get to give it away. But if he doesn't want second dates, you're doing something wrong.

Yeah, I love that idea of just the playfulness of it and just making it fun and. And kind of trying to get out of that. It's like the exhaustion. Right. Of all the brick walls of all the past trauma is there while you're. While you're going on the date. Right. And you have this protection up. That's where the crowbar probably comes from. But you're immediately. You're just kind of softening it and. And making it more playful.

Yeah. You've got to get into your feminine now. I know it's hard for a lot of women who work. Like the other day I had a client do a FaceTime video with this girl and I. And he said, katie, she just. Again, he used my word. Flat. She was so flat. I said, what does she do for a living? He said, she does government contracts. I said, well, there you go. All day long, the woman is doing government contracts. So she has to be like this just to be flat. I mean, my husband, if you met him, he's a little bit flat because all day long he's doing business, business, business, business. So I have to pull the, like, man, the fun guy out of him. And, ladies, you want these alpha males. Guess what alpha males do? They work their buns off. So you better bring the fun. Women are like, I want him to be everything. It's like, are you crazy? So expectations like that you should be the fun one. I was always, guys are like, you're the most fun I've ever had on a date, I'm like, good. I'm the common denominator. I am fun. So even if he was lame or if it was not a great date, I still had a good time. I honor him and his time and his money. And I honor my time, too. So just practice being fun.

You brings up such a good point. Because I noticed this even this weekend I was with my boyfriend. And so when we met, I was in the middle of exiting my business. And I then had this kind of just me exploring different things for like a year. And then I started my podcast. So really. And then I was doing challenges, so just everything was really easy and fun for me. I didn't have all the stress that I used to have. And I was thinking that I changed a lot over that time. And I did change because I had so much more fun. And then recently, I'm building out this program and I'm kind of exhausted because I'm. I'm in the middle of all the stuff, and I have all these people that I'm helping, and it's a whole thing. Almost kind of reminds me a little bit of my business, but different. And I was telling him this weekend, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm reacting a little like how I used to. And I'm like, oh, I thought I changed this whole bunch. But what it was is I let go of all that stuff. Now that it's back, it's like, he had to. So anyway, my point is I had to tell him. I'm like, okay, we gotta get me back.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, bring it back out. And he did. He did such a really great job. But it definitely takes that communication piece, right? Because if I hadn't have noticed it, like the stick up the butt, right? It's like you don't notice that you have your stick up your butt, then you're going to stay with it up your butt, right?

The resting bitch face is real. I'm always like, damn, woman. I mean, I love watching dates from afar. My husband and I were always watching people, and I was like, no, he is. No, this is not going well. These faces women have, that's pretty LA based, too, but be smiley, be fun. And I understand moms get this way. I was a teacher for a while, and the last thing I want to do after teaching 120 kids a day was go on a date. So I understand. And so a lot of you are in this rut of, like, that's the last thing. So make it a rule. You only go on dates on Saturday nights. You only do first dates on Saturday nights. So you can prep, you can listen. I have a playlist, like a get ready. It's all strong female music, like, I'm badass. I usually drink a little bit of wine and eat some cheese and crackers to kind of get my mojo on. I mean, I still do this. Married or not. Not every day do I feel like, oh, I feel like sexy Katie. I haven't even shaved my legs. But I will tonight. So we, we as women have to choose to do that. We can't always expect our person to help us with that. But I do love how you even said this. You told him. Because men don't read minds. They're like puppies. They're clueless. Okay, I love men, but it's like, you gotta stroke that puppy. You gotta be like, good job. But you have to tell the puppy what to do. Right? In the same way, tell men exactly what you want. I love it. And a good man wants to meet your needs. He's good with it. And he's so much better when you've approached him in a good tone and at the right time. Tone in time. Barking it out on him at the wrong time is not good. We've all seen the bitchy woman at the table and you're like, ouch. I was on an airplane once and I finally had to be like, woman, quiet. I think it's a nine hour flight. And if you keep yelling at him, I will be yelling at you. Someone's like this in the background. I'm like, that's right.

So this is a great one. So Oswald actually was talking about, we were talking about earlier about different standards and things like that. So he's brand new at dating. He hasn't dated before. So this is great. We have a brand new dater. What would you, would you give him as a man?

Right?

He's.

He's a man. So we're gonna get in your masculine as much as possible. Totally direct every step. So it's really imperative. Women are looking for this now, especially if you're dating online, even if you're doing it in real life. Tell her exactly what you're thinking. Right. Be intentional dating. People have said that. And if she says she's not ready or she wants us, keep chatting. So again, it's this idea that, hey. And I do this often for my clients. So I have coaching programs where I actually pretend I am my male clients on Bumble.

Okay?

So I'm the one who swiped on her thought she was cute. She seems interesting. I send a message or send the message back, and right away I say, hey, you look pretty amazing. I really like this about your bio. I don't want to be wasting your time or mine, but I. That's what I say. I'd love to get your number. If you're comfortable. I'd love to text you and arrange a good time to call you. And then on that call, I'd love to see if it's a good fit and make a plan for a date with you. Every woman would be like every woman who's really ready to date and not just on the apps to get self help and all these. Since up there's a lot of people doing that, they're like, thank you, thank you. Yes. And so honor him, ladies, and send them your phone number. And then you as the mail, do exactly what you said you do. Do exactly what you said. So that's again, the number one thing women should look for is effort. A man who puts in an effort like that, that's great. And guys, if she's reciprocating that effort, if she's mirroring that effort, she likes you. If she is not mirroring that effort, she doesn't like you, move on. Okay? You don't need seven signs to tell if a girl doesn't like you. You need one. If she is equally mirroring your effort, she's it. If she's not, she's not that it. She's too busy, whatever it is. So. And then here's my. Here's my other thing. And this sells every time. I was just talking to my new client today. I said, do you have the dating with Katie? Perfect first date outfit. No, every man, I'm telling you, it's classic. You have to wear this outfit, a pair of dark blue jeans. And I don't want to see any rips. I don't want to see some funky coloring, no weird stitching. Just dark blue jeans, classic Levi's. And I want them fitted. I want to see the man package. Okay? We women want to see it too. So dark blue jeans, crisp white shirt. Now, recently a client went and got a photo shoot and he was wearing a light blue shirt. He looks like a businessman. It looks like a business photo. It doesn't look like a dating photo. You have to wear a crisp white shirt. White shirts look clean, they look fresh, especially on guys. And then it has to be a dark blue blazer. It's just some sort of. Just a Plain blue blazer, pocket square. So sexy. White sneakers. Good. Shoes matching your belt. Shoes match belts. Yes, guys, brown and brown, black and black. So that is. I'm telling you, it sells every time. That classic man look. Woof. It's hot.

Do you have advice for the women on what to wear for a first date?

Wear a dress and heels. I mean, I believe first dates should be dinner, that you should be sitting down for a meal or drinks. Okay. I've had people say, well, I want to go for a hike. I'm like, you know what, I want you to go see how they interact with other people, how they can they focus on just you on a hike. You're not really looking at each other. You need to be like this. So we do. Especially in matchmaking, we encourage only sit down dinners. But ladies, I cannot stress enough. A fitted dress. Now I understand the frumpy dress look is in. I get it. Doesn't mean you should wear it. Just because you like it doesn't mean you should wear it. And yes, you need to wear some heels. I actually have a whole course, it's called seven steps to sexy. So when I got divorced, I was pretty frumpy. I was a missionary in China for seven years. I didn't have anything fancy, like zero. I didn't have any fancy watches or purses or shoes. And you don't need that to look sexy. And even when you're sexy, that doesn't mean you give out free sex. So this whole, this whole seven week course, I have a whole week where I talk about, I show literally clothing because I did a whole, I did it. I asked a bunch of men, over 100 men, what is your favorite clothing pieces on women? Open toed shoes, point toed shoes, strappy shoes. So I give all the details on that in the course. But. So that's just seven steps to sexy. But yeah, dress like a woman. You should have steakhouse dresses, you should have brunch dresses. Go shopping, Take a minute. Just like you have church outfits, you have Saturday morning soccer outfits with your kids. You need date night outfits.

Okay, here's another common one. And then I'll get. I've seen a couple questions in the comments, so we have the, this one came up a lot. Meeting men who live in my geographical area has been challenging.

Okay, here's. I got, I got two really good answers to that. So your pond is full of carp and you want a king salmon. Guess what you need to do. You need to go to Alaska. This idea that you're going to Find your perfect fit in a five mile radius is shenanigans. There might be. You might be in a season where you cannot move. Okay, I understand that. But you also have to understand there might really be nobody with all the criteria that you're looking for in your area. I have clients in Louisville. Louisville is not a great area today. Like, I have seen the apps. It's not good. Okay? So we always ask our clients, are you willing to date long distance? Right? And a lot of times some of my clients want to get married. So these women have to be willing to relocate. And. And I've seen young girls do not want to relocate. They're like, nope, this is where I'm going to live forever. I'm like, you're 39 and single. You might want to rethink that. I dated long distance, my husband, for five years. And people could say, well, why so long? I wasn't ready to get married until all my kids were out of the house. So once my kids got out of the house, I literally said to my husband, let me rephrase this with a little story. Two nights ago, we were on our date night and I saw these Instagram questions to ask. And one of the questions was, tell me some good advice you got that has stuck with you, right? So I asked my husband this on date night. He says, I just posted this on my Instagram. He literally looks at me and says, and I gotta read this, right?

Because it's good.

It's good. I say, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received? Right? This is an Instagram question, like, how to build connection. He says, he looks at me, says, marry me or I'm out.

So that was. We came to a stage at a point where I was like, either we get married or not. Like, we've done this for four years with the goal that we get married. Where are you at? Ultimatum. Women need to be better at giving ultimatums and then be ready for whatever the answer is. He's either in or he's out, and you're fine either way. But stop wasting your time. But going back to the idea, I moved for my husband. As a matter of fact, a lot of our matchmakers moved when they found their husbands. One moved to Denver. The other one, this is a great story. She was living in Canada. She was a curvy girl, big curvy girl. And she said, nobody in Canada likes big curvy girls. She goes, I'm moving to Miami, where there's a bunch of Latinas, okay? She Knocked it out of the park there. She knocked it out of the park. She said, I had so many dates lined up, I moved. She moved because she knew it wasn't in her best interest. Now some of you can't move then either. Rearrange your expectations. But I'll say one more story, and I want to give real life stories because sometimes we get stuck in this, like, oh, I will only date 20 mile radius. Had a coaching client for two years. Okay, he's a great guy. But his thing was, I will only date 20 mile radius, Katie. And I'm like, that's ridiculous. Well, there's traffic in Miami. I said, there's traffic everywhere. For a great woman, you should be willing to. So sure enough, he goes through 27 dates, yada, yada. And then he meets this woman, her name is Katie. And he met her on Facebook dating. I literally have had two clients meet 2Katies on Facebook dating. So I don't know if y' all have tried it or not, but since Facebook dating is kind of the thing right now. And he meet this woman, she had three boys. She lives in an rv. She lives down the street right now, but she's moving three hours away. I can read you the text he just sent me. He's in love. He's like, I'm happy to drive three hours. We're going to do it for one year. And then we talked about her moving in with me and the boys. And I was like, oh, look at this. Oh, Mr. I'm never going to date that far is now willing. And they worked out a plan. So just never say never. It drives me insane. We hear this all the time. I mean, I'll call my other matchmakers and we roll our eyes at what people say. Then we're like, they said this and now they're doing it. So be more open.

Yeah, it's the openness, right? Because it's so easy to have that closed mindedness because that's safer, isn't it? And then you, you're able to say you can't meet anyone because you're. Yeah, you're repeating what you're seeing. Okay, this is kind of like I, I'm actually really curious because I don't think we've been here on, on our live either. Finding chemistry and connection. So what do you say about that?

So I have a podcast, podcast, like 3132 and it's the five Cs of a great relationship. And I talk about chemistry last because chemistry is baloney. I'm A very practical matchmaker because life is a merger. With the right person, you're a partnership. And guess what? You play a part and they play a part. Too many people come into relationships saying what do you, what's he going to give for me? I want him to do this, I want her to do this. I want them to meet my needs. That is not working people. It doesn't work. So you go in thinking, what am I going to give to this person? If both of you are givers, it's amazing. But a lot of givers attract takers. I have a girlfriend, she's a giver and she attracts these takers. And it's just like you need a giver. But going back to the chemistry, think of it like this. So I just actually went camping last week and we had a fire and chemistry is the, what's that stuff called? The, not the propane but the lighter fluid. So chemistry is lighter fluid. You put it on the fire and it goes. Right, that's your chemistry. But it's not sustainable. You can't just keep going like this for a fire all night. Like it's great for a season. And by the way, I can have chemistry with a 25 year old guy. What's, where's that going to go? Nowhere. So this idea of Katie on the first date, there was no chemistry. Yeah, but was he a good man? Does he have the kids character qualities? So people are looking for personality but what you need to be looking for is character. And character isn't like lighter fluid. Okay? Men with character are not charming because men who are charming are charming to everybody. Women who are a little bit sexy all the time are sexy to every man. So in the same way, you can't trust this chemistry idea. And I always liken it to say on a first date there should be a spark, a spark of interest because that's what starts a fire. And what keeps your fire going is the embers. And that's ultimately what you need to have is that ember kind of relationship. My husband, I have great embers. Every once in a while we get a little fluid and woo. But that's not reality. And even the other day some dating expert posted and she said never settle for less than mind blowing sex and long conversations. And I'm like, this is shenanigans. This is so romantic. And she's 39 and single, just got dumped again. Look, I'm not putting her down. But here's the reality. There are nights my husband is so exhausted he doesn't even Want to talk? He talked all day. And here I am, like, I'm ready to talk. So we have to meet in the middle. We're partners, right? We can go sit by the fire and just sit and listen to music. And I have to honor his need for silence. And in the morning we'll talk over coffee. And no, you don't have crazy, amazing sex every single time you have sex. What are people posting? But they get thousands of likes and when you start to keep putting that in your mind and it's not happening and you're like, why isn't this happening? Because it's unrealistic. So chemistry. No, that person should be attractive to you, to you. Okay? Remember that. That's all it matters, right? And, and stop with these preferences. Like, well, he has to be tall, dark and handsome. That's a preference. Girl, that's preference. You know what he needs to do? He needs to adore you. That's what you should write down. That's it.

Okay, so this was one that came up a lot too. Meeting a guy I prefer organically, but unfortunately that doesn't seem. The guys I match with on apps aren't serious. They either don't start a conversation, don't keep the conversation, or they say they want to meet, but they don't make plans. It's frustrating.

That girl, that's everybody. But this is, this is a mindset that I teach from the very beginning. It's called the 80. 20, 80% of people out there dating are junk. Okay? They are those people who will ghost, you never follow through. They really are limited in their dating. They don't have the time, they don't really have the money. They're on these apps to get likes and to get interest and just to waste their time and they're going to waste yours. Just know going in that out of every 10 guys you chat with, eight are joke. Out of every same for women, eight are junk. They're full time moms, but they think they have time to date, but they don't. Or they want a guy with a private jet, but they're going to like you until they find the next guy. So it's common, both sides. So keeping that in mind, 20% are quality. Problem with that is of that 20%, finding your age, your location, all the things that you do need is hard. So if you know that, you can kind of go in. I always say, like water off a duck's back. Don't get riled up. You gotta stay aloof. Aloof. Like, oh, no surprise no surprise.

It's then good.

It shook out for you. That's a good thing, right? So we wanna get the quality people I know in real life seems like a really good thing. I mean, my whole podcast, my whole season one is on in real life. I think I have two podcasts on in real life dating and that everything else is online dating. You got to make sure if you're online that you are so memorable, that your photos are so amazing. That's for the ladies. Ladies, you get lots of options. Men, please up your game. Up your photo game. I have a whole podcast on. There is this one photo that women dig. Women love. You put on that outfit. I said the dating with Katie outfit. Then you go sit in a chair. I have clients that have done it where they put it on a timer. I don't care, guys, but if you do this one photo, I'm telling you, you sit on that chair, you put your arm up and you go like this. Chicks dig it. I mean, you kind of get what I'm doing, right? Like the man pose. Oh my gosh. Women love it. They love it. One fish picture. I have all these advice, so I do believe in online. I know lots of people who have met online, but just know it's exhausting. Same as same story for everybody. But I always say get in lots of matchmaker databases. But if you do, you better have some great photos, memorable bio. You're giving me selfies. I'm never going to send that to my clients. My clients pay a lot of money. They don't need some girl who's like, I mean, some of these pictures I, I look in our database, I'm like, never, girl. You will never be going on a date for us. Go listen to podcasts. I literally have Hot or not what men think of your photos. Just for ladies. I will tell you what works and what doesn't. So. So don't be discouraged. Just if you know the numbers ahead of time. And I had a girlfriend, she went on 30 bumble dates and then she met her great guy, perfect for her. But that 30 bumble dates meant she probably swiped on hundreds, chatted with hundreds, and then finally it's a numbers game. What do you think about this?

So I planning another dating. I do these dating challenges with dares and planning another one this summer. This first one I did, I had the apps because I didn't know any better. And like the apps, people were using the dating apps. But what I found was when I was giving the dares, they were kind of taking the easy way out with the app. Right, but they better and then plus, you're burning all the energy with the dating app. So since then, I've said no dating apps. And it's things like complimenting a stranger or going to a dog park and talking to someone with a dog. And so yeah, but what I want to.

I want to get to this point.

But the problem with the organic dating is I think it's harder to get a date. Right. Whereas on an app, it's easier to practice dating. And that's what I did when I got divorced. I used the app to flex my muscles with dating until I got tired of it, then I got off of it, and then I met my boyfriend in real life. And so what do you think about just like that in general, if I want to help them actually go on dates, do you think doing the apps is good or do you have a strategy for in person to, like, get the date like you would as easy as an app.

Good point. You talked about online fatigue, dating app fatigue, so I want to address that real fast. I always recommend you do it in the morning and at night only for 15 minutes. Only for 15 minutes. Every 15 minutes is 1% of your day. So you're only spending 2% of your day on the apps. Okay. And you're not getting all riled up. And if you want to do that on the backside or just spend 1% of your day at night, perfect. And again, my girlfriend called me today. She's like, he didn't text me back yet. I'm like, girl, why are you getting all ruffled? You got to be aloof. You got to take your toes out of the water. No, no, you got one toe in. That's it. One. That's I always call it with my clients. How many toes are you in? They're like four. I go, that's too many. Take some toes out. You gotta be one toe in. In the beginning. That's it. That's it. So no big deal, right? As for in real life, one of the things I do recommend, and I have a podcast on this, they're all topical. They're all 15 minutes. 1% of your day go out alone. So I. You probably are challenging them to do this. I love it. I met my husband, I literally used to go the nights I didn't have my kids. I was on a two to five schedule. So those of us divorce, we get that. I would go out without my girlfriends. Because when you're with a girlfriend, it's just. They call it A cock blocker. It's not great because you're involved and these guys are like, I don't know, you don't have a ring on. So they're not sure if you're single, but you could be dating someone. They don't know. They don't know. So I like going out by myself. So I'd usually go out and get a beer because that's all I could afford back in the day. I always go to nice restaurants, to the bar area. I tried to go the same one. So I got to know the bartenders, which was great. And one night I walked in and there was this cute man and I was like, okay, I need to sit by him because I want to talk to him. And when you know the bartender, you can get a little intel. I actually just sent a speaking engagement and that's how I met my husband. And it's, he's saying, okay, so what did you order over there? All right, what are you drinking? Because I need to know, what do you recommend on the menu? You just got to go for it. What do you have to lose, right? Men and women. I do love sending a drink across the bar. I have a girlfriend getting married because she sent a drink to a guy or getting married this year. But if you're at a dog park, let's say, and you meet a cute guy but you don't know if he's single, you just, it really didn't come up in the conversation because you were talking about dogs and you're kind of ready to leave. You could say something like, and I, I'm trying to teach women mostly, but guys would say the same thing. Well, if you're single, I think you're pretty cute and I'd take you on a date. So if you want to exchange numbers, just let me know. Well, if you're single, it's kind of like, I kind of like you. Well, if you're single, if not, then take it as a compliment. Always say that. And if you're not, take it as a compliment because you seem like a good catch. Yeah.

Wow, that's cool. Imagine if you could do that. So 80, 20, right? Imagine if you do that a hundred times in a three month period. And then what would happen? I just, I'm like, I feel like that would be a fun test to do that.

But it's how you say it and it's the juxtaposition of, well, if, if not, you're not hosing in on someone I know at the end of a day. Tell A girl. You like her. Well, don't tell her you like her. Just make it clear that you do like her. Don't say, I like you and I want to go on a second date. Yeah, I really liked our date tonight. I bet you a second date would be fun. But I'll text you in the morning. He's running the show, but he's giving her space. There always needs to be a little bit of space given in those conversations.

So let's see here. Let me check in. Okay. Lots of stuff happening here.

Okay. I'm a hugger. Yes.

Yes on the Huds. Yes on the Huns.

Oh, Carmen said you just changed her radius thought.

And she's starting to go shopping for dating clothes. She doesn't have any. A Norma said question. What if you say, hey, I kind of like you and they're not that into you or you into them? What, do you walk out? What do you walk out? Do you leave them the check?

Well, I believe men should always pay. So, ladies, I would actually say, never, ever even pull out your credit card. I've only offered twice in my dating life, and that was because they're both douchebags. Well, one was a dork, and I was like, I'm done. I got to get out of here. I went to elementary school with them, so I was like, no hard feelings. And then one was putting me down. So actually, three times I walked out. That one, I walked out. I just got up and left because he was putting me down as a matchmaker, and I was like, I'm out. So I just got up and left. But the other guy, I was like, you know what? I'm good. I'm done. You just made fun of me as a mom, and you're an absent dad. I was like, nope.

What's the worst case? You walk out. Like, how? Worst case scenario.

And it's called self respect. No, I don't believe women should be paying on first date. So I would say that let the man be the man. If he can't afford taking you out on a first date, he shouldn't be taking anybody out on a first date. Don't even offer. I actually. Some guys like it when you offer, but is that really the kind of guy you want to be with? If you can't afford a first date, he just shouldn't be dating. If he needs you to offer, then he's kind of a simp. That's kind of how I feel. You can pay for something else later, but I wouldn't do it on a First date with. Answering the question, though, the end of the night, if you said. I mean, read the room, you guys. You know, if she's like this, and you're like, hey, I kind of like you, and she's still like this, she's not that into you. But I think really, what's the most important thing is, ladies, you have the go. You have the green light for all of this.

Yeah.

It's your job to make it clear to these guys because they're clueless. And every guy on here is probably like, thank you. I'm so glad she said it, because these guys probably like you.

Yeah.

And let me also say this. They're probably nervous if they like you. They're probably nervous on a first date. One of our matchmakers, the curvy one that moved to Florida, she went out with this guy. She was like, he was not. There's no chemistry on the first date. But I knew he was a good guy, so I actually gave him a second date. They're now getting married. They have four kids. She has two sets of twins with him. They are adorable together. He adores her. She picked him because he was a good man, not because of chemistry and not because the first date was so amazing. She knew she picked on character, so we gotta pick on character. So you go on this date. And let me say this too, ladies, a lot of men are finance. They're engineers. These alpha males that made big money all day long. They're in business meetings. My husband, business meeting, business meeting, business meeting. So he's not Mr. He would never say, like, oh, I kind of like you. That's really. Some guys would, but it's more like, ladies, this is your chance to get him engaged. And if it's not going great, you can literally say, this was awesome. You're great, but I just don't think it's a right fit. Save it for the text the next day. You don't need to call anybody. You don't need to tell them what they did wrong. You don't need to. I mean, just. The idea is you're making friends. And I always made friends. The guys that I dated probably. I mean, I was cutting some of their hair during COVID I was dating my husband, but they needed haircuts. And I was like, I'm good. He's good. My husband was fine with it. So it just. You're not going to marry everybody you date. You're just going to have to get used to the fact that some of them aren't the right Fit. I like to think of it like this. I think of you're walking in the mall and there's an awesome shoe in the window. And you walk in, you're like, I want to try that shoe on. I'm a size seven. And they say, well, we only have a six and a half and a seven and a half. And you're like, okay, let me make it work. Right? You put the six and a half on. You're like, oh, this is not gonna work. You put the seven and a half on, you're like, no way, Jose. You still love the shoe. It's just not the right fit. It's okay, right? It's just not the right fit. There's something about this person or something. It's just not gonna fit. All good, everybody, we can date like adults. Okay.

And then let's see. Oh, Ann was talking about earlier. Nothing worse than the lack of banter. So true. And let's see. Oh, Fern, you said the exhausting part is when you're trying to avoid the pushy ones. It's harder to relax in those situations.

Well, let's. Let's address that real fast. Guys that are a little bit too pushy, touchy, you gotta flirt back to be like, no, no, no, no, no. You got to earn that. That's like, date 17. Be funny about it. But then they're like, oh, okay. Put them back in their place, ladies. And the more we all do this, the better it is for everybody. So whether or not they're being rude online, call them out. Call men out. Say, whoa, this is something I'd expect from my son, not from you. And if he takes it like, oh, butt hurt. Goodbye, Goodbye. Right, but if we all start telling men to stop acting like boys, they might rise up.

Okay.

Or weed out. That's all you gotta think about.

And Mike said he just executed your formula. He has a date tomorrow, follow up test in the a.m. so we gotta update us. Mike, how it goes.

I love it. He did the whole, give me your number and I will do this and then this and then this. I'm imagining. Yeah.

Cause he's. He's the one that. Yeah. This your podcast, so.

Yeah.

And Mike, feel free to update us here and I'll. I'll check it in a second. And then let's see here. There we go. So fun. You guys just change radius. Absolutely can be ridiculous. Let's see. Sorry, I'm going through the talk. Oh, I'm sure Nadia said, what if he's a perfect guy in all respects Except I'm not attracted to him romantically. Is there a way to make yourself or push yourself to find romance? I can't imagine myself kissing him, but.

I definitely interview with them. Done. Right there. If you cannot imagine yourself kissing him, he's not for you. What? I call those people. He probably looks good on paper, right? Oh, he's the perfect man. But he's not perfect, so stop saying these. First off, there's no perfect man. So don't even say that word around me. I'm like, no perfect man. There's good men, there's good men. But no, he's not yours. You need to want to make out with the guy. But I do call those people expanders. And so in the world of dating, in the world of whatever you're doing business, when you meet somebody and they're a lot of what you want, but they're not yours, that's just to expand you and encourage you. It's a little bit of a faith builder that they're still out there. You might even meet a married guy. You're like, okay, that guy is great. Okay, well, he's obviously not yours, but you can be encouraged. That that's like a. I always think it's God giving you encouragement of like yours is out there. Just keep expanding your belief and your faith for it.

And let's see. See here. Susan asked what apps are good to go, and I know you mentioned Facebook dating, and you've mentioned Bumble a few times. Are those your kind of go to ones?

Man, I heard Bumble's changing some of this stuff. Here's the deal. It doesn't matter what app you're on. Everybody's on all these apps. There's people on Luxy, which is the bougie app. I've heard it's terrible. What really matters is how you show up on that app. You've got to have great photos if you want options. Ladies, I can't stress this enough. I'm talking. And go. Listen, that podcast, hot or not, what men think of your photos. What you think is cute is not what men think is cute. What? This outfit your girlfriend said was cute. Every man is like, that's gross. You got to start thinking like a man, and then you'll say, well, I don't. I want to be me. Well, okay, fine. How's that working out for you? Feminine. Up, girly. Up a little bit. They love it. These guys love it. You've got to have great photos. You got to be memorable. A lot of bios will Say I like red wine and sunsets on the beach.

Okay. I like to travel. Okay, tell me the details. Tell me about your favorite red wine in France. I'm an old world wine drinker and my best experience, I'm going to champagne this summer. That's way more detailed. And if he's an interesting man, he'll know how to run with that. Much better. My favorite beach experience is on the island of Bora Bora. Whatever it is, be a little bit more interesting. Just. And be funny. Everybody loves funny people. Both sides. So some of the starting lines I like to say is my kryptonite is whatever. Nutella ladies use this line. I am an expert back scratcher. Men love that line.

Is.

They love it. They love it or whatever it is. I mean, it shows you're a little bit physical, but it doesn't. It's not like putting yourself out there like you're going to have sex with them, but they like to know that you're going to be affectionate. I do have a podcast all on things to write and things not to write. And I literally took them all from different apps. I read hundreds of bios on apps and I was like, that's funny, that's cute. So I actually stole them all and I say them on my podcast. So go listen to that podcast and just rewrite what other people wrote. No one's going to notice.

Spike the puppy. Oh, good, we get to help Norma out. Norma's moving in a few months and she wants to paint the new place. She decided this might be a good chance to flirt. Can we open that line if she goes to paint store or Home Depot. What would be fun?

You seem cute. What color should I pick? My for my house, whatever Compliment. People like what you said. You seem cute. It's so much different when you say you seem cute versus wow. You're cute. You're cute. People will be like, oh my gosh, that's a little direct.

Right?

So just you gotta learn how to be that flirty, goofy person. And it, it takes practice. I was sitting with a client for breakfast the other day. He's an engineer, mind you guys. Ladies, you got to understand these engineer alpha males, they're not great at it. So you kind of got to pull it out, be patient with them. So I made him practice that line. I literally made him say, you seem kind of cute. Bless his heart. Little 28 year old engineer. It took him a minute. He was not comfortable saying that. It was not his regular vernacular. Right. So this is a skill Set. And you have to practice it and you have to learn to be like water off a duck's back. If some guy's like, what cares? Most guys would be like, oh my gosh, did you just give me a compliment? I watched past three guys the other day. They were looking spot on, head to toe, and I was like, head to toe? Fire. You guys looking hot. Just give these guys a compliment and.

They'Re like, yeah, you can just kind of to get into that playful energy. Just do it. That's right. Just to kind of get into that mode.

Yeah. And practice with women. Women are not kind to women. So that's another great way. Girl, you're looking good today. High five. Looking hot. Looking hot. They're like, who's this old lady over here? Like, it's me.

So what would you suggest? Every week until we do the dating challenge, I've been just playing around with giving them a dare and something just to do when they want. Through the week, we've had things from go to a music anything like outdoor music festival to complimenting someone. I'm trying to think what some of the other. Oh, like a self love act. It's been just a lot of all over the board. Is there something that you'd recommend for the group for this week that would be fun?

Volunteer.

Oh, I like that.

Volunteering is such a good space. I mean, philanthropy is great. Go to one of those fancy bougie dinners. I was at 250 a ticket. But for me, it's always for a good cause. I get to get dressed up, I get to eat a fancy meal. I get to be in a room with other dressed up people. And it all is a nonprofit and it's all a write off and I love it. And I would sit next to the cutest single guy. He was a doctor. And I. I mean, I'm in. I'm married, so I'm good. But you never know. And if. If you can't go to one of those galas or something, just go volunteer. Volunteer somewhere. Volunteer your church. Volunteer at the do. Find what you love and start to volunteer.

Oh my gosh. I'm so glad that we met. Thanks, Mike, for connecting us. And I just. Yeah, I'm so. I just.

You're.

Every time you work together, I just feel so much.

Just hopefully practical application. I want to give legit advice. How do I see this? What should I wear? I mean. And again, I have so many podcasts and I think there's only one podcast topic that I haven't really hit. And that's kissing. But that's weird. I'm not sure how to do a podcast on kissing, but whatever. You know, I'm so.

I would love for you to share, just to get into your database and then also to listen to your podcast and just share all the things and how they can do all things. Dating with Katie.

I love it. So I have a website, datingwithkatie.com Katie, you can go to the work with me page, and that puts you in the database if you do want to work with me. I don't. The only female clients I take is for coaching, and so I kind of help you with what you're wearing. What are you saying? Online, Those kinds of things. I take men coaching as well, but for matchmaking, I only take male clients. Sorry, ladies. I love you, but men do not like the idea of a woman having a matchmaker. They're like, why does she need a matchmaker? Is she ugly? It doesn't work. So that's why I only take men. But I want you in the database because if you're a great fit for any one of my clients or any of the other six matchmakers. We're a small team, but we're actually international. We have Dubai, we have London. So it's pretty amazing. I mean, I have a client recently. He's in San Francisco. He's in London, and he's in Sri Lanka. So he's like, I'm open, Katie. And I'm like, I love that word. I'm open. So you want to get in the database, but make sure you have great pictures and make sure you have a memorable bio and then check out the podcast. That's my strength. They're all kind of off the cuff like this. I'm a little scattered, but lots of good practical points in dating. Lots of feedback from clients, different people. So it's hard because when you're dating, you're not really getting feedback after a date. I would actually say if you went out with a guy and or a girl and it was good, but you both knew it wasn't a right fit, ask them via text. Hey, I'm trying to get better at dating. I would love some feedback. What do you have to lose? I mean, obviously if someone asked you that, you would be kind about it. Like, hey, well, your outfit was kind of little messy. Like, I on a first date, I told this guy, I go, what is this, your dad clothes? Come on. Really? Is this the best you could do for a day with me? He was laughing, and then he on the second date he wore what I told him to wear so he didn't know it. He's still a good friend of mine, but. So we all need a little bit of feedback. I think I would really their people to ask an ex person that you went on a date with for some feedback.

I like that. That's really good. Maybe we'll have to do self love for two weeks before that one.

Yeah, sandwich it in right there. Like happy happy, little tough happy happy.

Yeah. And tell us your website again. I'm assuming your podcast and all the.

Things Dating with Katie across the board. Dating with Katie. K a-t y.com My Matchmaking Company is Sync and that's C I N Q E dot com. I am on Insta Facebook. I'm really never posting. So hop over to Instagram. I think it's way easier than Facebook and I do come fall. I am finishing up my book soon. It was 101 things every woman and Man Needs to know about Dating. And then. Yeah, right. And then I want to start doing some small group masterminds so we can really get down to the nitty gritty of Katie. This happened on my date. What should I have done? What could I have done better? And I'm curious if you guys think I should do that in a male female group or just males and just females? What are your thoughts on that?

Do you guys like the idea of if. If she does like Mastermind Zooms asking about dating if it should just be only female or male and female together? Let's see it. While we're waiting, Norma asks, what is the site you have on what to wear and not to wear. I'm a tomboy, so this will be challenging. That's on your Dating with Katie site, right?

Yeah. So it's a course. It's called Seven Steps to Sexy. And if you use my code 10 off, it's 10 off, you'll get 10% off. It's worth it though. It's six one hour sessions and it's a video course. You'll love it. I literally am folding up clothing of mine. I'm telling you no on this. I actually teach you even how to know your colors if you've never done your colors. If you're a summer, spring, winter, fall. I used to work in fashion for 10 years, so I love this stuff because it makes a difference. You want people to say, wow, you look good, rather than oh, that's a cute shirt. That's the difference. So you'll shop smarter. So I even show you on the week where we talk about getting fit, I show you how to get rid of the wiggly arms. I used to be a trainer at Equinox, so I cover a lot of bases there.

I want that one right now.

Tricep dip, ladies. I should be doing some tricep dips right here.

Okay, so we have. Oh, Mike said he wants a signed copy of both your books.

Carmen said female and male. Fern said mixed groups. Oddball all about said male and female together. Mike said all three. Compare the perspectives. So, oh, Herman said, how do you qualify to be in your database?

Anybody can be in the database. We will reach out to you when we feel like one of our paying clients would like to meet you. So if you don't hear from us, that's because we don't have a client that is either living where you live or really wants to go to where you live. Or maybe they don't want kids because they're 70 and you're 30. All these different reasons, so don't take it personal. But we do want you in there. And again, there's seven matchmakers. We have all different kinds of clients. I usually take the more conservative Christian clients. We have one who does Jewish. It doesn't matter what you are, who you are. We all have different clients and we will reach out when we think it's good.

Thanks so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me on Facebook and.

Thanks, guys, for joining. Good to see you. And I'll be live again with you on Sunday for our community gathering at 5 o' clock, Pacific Standard Time, and follow Dating with Katie everywhere. Go to our website, look at all the things and do the thing. Don't wait for opportunity.

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