Episode 51 - Kayla Jimenez Becoming A Successful Ip Lawyer—Eventually Buying The Firm

I do really believe 100% from every part of me that everyone has the capacity to be able to do the things that they want and not to be held back by the mental baggage that's in our head that we want to push through.

Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. In each episode, we get down and personal with people who go after the things they want to make all their wildest dreams come true. Join us as we unveil and dissect a formula for what it takes to do the thing. Here is your host, Stacy Lauren.

Hey everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. Sometimes you meet people who go against the grain to do the thing. Today's guest embodies that mindset. She's an incredibly determined high achiever with an uncanny way of finding hacks and using them to her advantage. This guest is an attorney and she also happens to own the firm. Her work is her passion. She enjoys serving clients who share her same out of the box personality. And as much as she loves what she does, she still refuses to put business before life. She truly defines happiness. Whenever an opportunity arises, she finds a way to make it happen. From hacking college courses to making tuition more affordable, to buying a condo with a trick she learned, she does whatever it takes to reach her goals. She even went after her dreams of attending art school, took a two year sabbatical and she was able to do this and still work remotely. Whether representing clients in court, traveling to Florence to learn about art, or teaching as a professor, she always finds new ways to do the thing. Please welcome Kayla to the show. Hey Kayla, how's it going?

It's going well. Good.

I'm so excited to have you on because we've talked, I know we're working together now where you're helping me with something and so I'm so excited to just dive in more about you and your story and all that good stuff.

Okay. I'm excited to answer questions. Okay, good.

Well, let's start off and if you could just tell the listeners more about you, your story and your background.

Okay. Well, I am from a tiny, tiny town of like 220 people and I moved to the big city of San Diego for university actually, and I fell in love and ended up staying here in the meantime. Somewhere along the lines I worked in biotech and then fell into.

IP law, intellectual property law, and went to law school and through a really wild.

Set of circumstances ended up owning and running my own law firm. So that in between I've traveled all around the world. I've lived in Italy and went to art school. I've done just a whole bunch of wacky things that don't fit with this Persona of lawyer. But it's been an adventure and I love every second of it.

Oh, I love it. Yeah, I definitely. You have such a 360 degree scope of just everything that I've seen from you. So I. I'm not surprised with the Italy thing. That sounds super cool.

It was. It was a huge, huge adventure getting there, actually. When I went to university, I went to UCSD and I put myself through school. And at ucsd, they kept advertising that you could study abroad at this art school in Italy if you were an artist. And I grabbed a brochure and looked at it and really, really had my heart set on it, because I had always loved paint, had done art shows in the past, but the cost just was for a 19 year old who was putting herself through college, kind of exorbitant. And it was always in the back of my mind that, oh, I want to go study abroad. I want to do what all these other people are doing. And life continued on. I went to law school, I started practicing law, and then one year I had to attend 14 weddings. And I remember looking at my boyfriend at the time and going, you know, we've traveled and spent like seven grand going to all these people's weddings. And I could have gone to art school for that. And he's like, well, why don't you?

And I thought, you know what, he's right. Why don't I go to art school? I mean, I'm pretty sure I can run my part of the practice remotely. I can take meetings on Zoom. So I went to my law partner and told him, hey, I think I'm kind of having burnout from going to all these weddings. And I feel a little bit of, you know, FOMO about missing my opportunity to go to art school. What do you think about letting me work remote and going to art school during the day in Florence? And my partner was like, I think that's the best idea ever. You need to go do it.

Oh, awesome.

And I packed my. I got in, I packed my stuff up and didn't. I actually didn't tell any of my clients because I just figured I'd work, you know, I'd be doing the same work. And I went to art school in Florence and had the time of my life. And I don't think any of my clients really suspected that I was doing all the work from Italy.

That's so cool because like number one, I feel like you got a really good risk assessment by just the why don't you.

You know, and it's like, I wonder, did that, Is that something you've used again that why don't you statement that he had given you that day?

Yeah, I think one of the great things about having really solid friendships or relationships is that they make you. They kind of are the voice in the back of your head you're thinking, why don't I do this? But you just need one person to go, yeah, why don't you do it? And then that's like, opens the floodgates for you. You're like, yeah, no, you're right. Okay. That voice is. I wish I could self justify it, but sometimes you still need a trusted friend who's got your back to be like, no, you should do it for sure.

Yeah. That's so cool. I love that because it's so true. It's so easy to get stuck in the whole like normal, you know, like what is that prescribed pattern of life, you know, and then to actually just be able to have that path, complete pattern interrupt while you're going through all that stuff. So the other thing that's really cool is how you, like some people would have just gotten stuck in the whole, I can't do it because I, my partner is like, my law partner is dependent on me, you know, and the fact that you went out of that box and you've had that courage to be able to say, well, what? I'm, I don't know, I'm putting words in your mouth right now. But like, what is the worst that could happen? They would just say, no, you can't go to Italy. Right. Is that kind of.

When you actually made that decision to talk to your law partner about going?

Well, to be honest, my, my law partner is the person that would have done exactly what I did. Like I said, I had a very non traditional legal career because of where I chose to work and I'm very grateful that I did. And I, I purposely chose to work with the law firm that I got in with after law school because they were so flexible and because they were so understanding. My law partner, when I had been practicing for about two years, so he was my boss, pulled me into his office and said, hey, let's get happy hour tonight. And I was like, that's sudden. Usually we plan things further in advance. So he went, got me a drink and then said, you know, I'm feeling burnout. I am going to take A year or two off practicing law and move to Bali.

Oh, wow.

And then he told me, you can either get a job at a big law firm or you can try to run my practice while I'm living in Bali. And I know it's a lot because you've only been practicing two years, but I really need to do this for me.

So he did that when I was two years into the practice. And of course I said, yeah, I don't want to go to a big law firm where I have to work like 90 hours a week. I will do my best to run the practice and I'll fall on my face 50 times. But you know what?

I think I can do it. So when he came back from Bali, we had a really good relationship with each other. And I felt like. I felt and still feel incredibly lucky to have worked with several attorneys whose life came before business. And so when I went to him and said, dana, I'm feeling burnout from going to all these weddings, emotional burnout, all that, I knew that he would. He would encourage me. So I wasn't very nervous about asking him. I was kind of just looking for him to be like, okay, here's the game plan. You know, we can work these hours.

And.

Xy, you know, xyz. I'll check your email for you on hours where you're not. Where you. Where it's off.

So I feel pretty blessed, to be honest about that. So I wasn't afraid that he'd say no.

Yeah, it's amazing. You had this, like, unbelievable mentor, basically, that kind of showed you the way in terms of how to balance life with law.

I, every day I wake up and I, like, am so grateful to have the people in my life that I do. And I told a friend, like, that's also a lawyer, but she's at a big firm. I told her, oh, I feel really lucky to have met these people. And she's like, you weren't lucky. You chose them.

And I think that's true. The traditional path is really to go out of law school, to go into a big law firm and put in your hours, and then, you know, you make partner or maybe you go start your own firm after putting in, you know, eight to ten years of work. But that just sounded miserable to me. So I picked something a bit non traditional, and I'm glad I did. Yeah.

So how did you get the confidence to run his law firm while he was in Bali?

That is a good question. I don't know. It was confidence, maybe misguided, but really, really what it was is just knowing I really, really, really did not want to work in a big law firm.

And work those hours and be in that kind of environment where you have to wear a suit and you're there until two in the morning if there's a trial or you're there on the weekends because everyone expects you to meet your billable hour requirement. That just sounded to me so much worse than the possibility of me failing at running his practice.

Yeah, I love that because it's like, it's so great when I get to talk to people that, and this isn't that yet because you eventually started your business, but where their businesses literally started just from the pain of some experience that they had or didn't want to have. And I love that you like pretty much, you got to see, this is probably the moment that you got to see that you could run it, you know, just by having that pain of what it would have been if you weren't going to run it.

Yes. Yeah. And it's a, I would say it's almost a fluke opportunity that I started that only two years in. And I'm not going to lie, it was really hard. There were definitely nights where I spent the night in the office or, you know, worked till 2 or 3 in the morning trying to figure things out for myself that now those tasks would take me 15 minutes. But back then, you know, you're still learning the ropes about, especially about admin stuff. To be honest, it's the admin stuff that drives me nuts about running, running the practice of law. But it's all, it was all really worth it. And I'm, I'm really, really thankful for him to put that trust in me to be able to do that. And I hope someday I can pay it back to someone I mentor as well.

Yeah, that's amazing when you get to see the full cycle come around. I'm sure you probably have and don't even know it where someone's been. I mean, I know you personally, so I could imagine that people are feeling it without maybe even you knowing.

I really hope so because the practice of law gets a really bad rap and I think a lot of lawyers get a really bad rap of working long hours or kind of being jerks or not having a life or even having to put in 90 hour, 60 to 90 hour work weeks before they can reap the rewards of.

Partnership or lots of, you know, financial freedom. And I really hope to share that you don't need to be miserable. And the practice of Law can be really fun and inspiring and great. It just, it really depends on where you work and.

What you select to do in your career.

Yeah. So what do you. I'm glad you said this because this is actually, this hasn't come up yet. So, like, what advice? And let's think about it generally. Right. Because I think that's a really good point is if someone's going to work anywhere, it's not just, where am I going to get a job. It would be where would I want to be that's supporting me in the best way. Like, what would be your suggestions to the person that's in that situation and looking at different things?

My suggestion is there are lots of ways to achieve your dream job. And so you have to be flexible and seeing multiple opportunities to achieve a quote unquote dream job. A lot of people think, oh, it is going to be, I'm a lawyer, so I'll use a law example. I want to be a prosecutor. That is my dream job. I want to be the DA. But then they become. They work in the DA's office and maybe they have a bad experience with their supervisor and maybe their colleagues aren't very friendly. And even though it's quote, unquote, their dream job because they define their dream job as being a da, it actually makes them miserable. And then they end up thinking they made the wrong choice. Sometimes, like, for me, I pick the job based on the people I work with because to me, that's what really defines my happiness, is do I like the people I work with? Do they make me feel happy? And I can find reward in something menial, like.

Drafting a contract. If the people I'm working with are encouraging, fun, supportive, I have clients who are really awesome and I like what they're doing, then even though I might not, you know, drafting a contract might not be my favorite thing in the world, it becomes a lot of fun because of the people I surround myself with. So dream job's got a lot of meanings and I think looking outside the box to find it is way more helpful than just saying, I want to be this type of thing. That's the only job that's going to make me happy.

Yeah, I love that. It's just having that flexible thinking and not just calling out a whole career based on one, one or two experiences.

Yeah. I had to work in a biotech lab when I got out of undergrad because of the recession. And that was really the only companies that were hiring in San Diego were biotech startups. And I remember Thinking, what? This is not my dream job. I wanted to go into finance because I had an econ degree. And this is so disappointing. I'm just like sitting here ordering lab supplies and occasionally like pipetting stuff. But the people I worked with in that startup were the most amazing people I've ever met in the world. Creative thinkers, brilliant, kind, funny, and it made this kind of mundane job just phenomenal. And I'm, I'm so glad I took it. They're still my great friends and they inspired me to actually, you know, become an intellectual property attorney. But. Oh, wow, I'm glad I, I'm glad I took it. Like, if I didn't, if I, if I would have just been like, nope, I'm doing finance, I'm only doing finance. I don't know if I would have had as good of an experience as I did in the lab.

Yeah.

And it's so cool when you get to, you know, as, as we get older, you get to see just how every experience leads to the next. And if you didn't have the one experience, it would, you'd be on this whole other path. I just think that always just like blows my mind how that works.

Yeah. And I love it. I, I love when the unexpected turns out to be the best. Like one of the best things that makes you smile.

Oh, that's so good. That is so good. Okay, so I definitely want to talk about how you opened your law firm and all that, but before we get there, I just want you mentioned you put yourself through school. So do you mind kind of talking about that a little bit?

Sure. That is a dark part of my life.

So I went to UCSD and.

The regents raised tuition, I think two or three times when I was in school. And I am always on the hunt for a good hack to save money. So for the first couple years I just had two jobs and I worked almost 40 hours and tried to squeeze all the required classes into lunch breaks or breaks in between.

My job. So I'd work at this lab in the morning and then I'd have some free time to take classes. And then after 10 o' clock at night, I'd go work in the biomedical library. And I slept maybe four or five hours on the weekdays and scrambled to get all my work done and it was really stressful. And then my, my second summer, I realized that if you crammed all, and I don't know if they, you can still do this, they might, the ucs might have closed this loophole, but you could cram a whole bunch of classes into the summer session and you would be eligible for grants that you weren't eligible for during the school year. And then you could drop down to part time status during school the school year and save money that way. So I kind of played this game where I piled up a lot of classes during the summer because they were effectively cheaper. And then I dropped down to part time.

Status during the full year.

But I was always really tired and it wasn't, I did not have the traditional college experience, we'll just put it that way. I just, my college was just me taking buses to different jobs and frantically trying to do work while I was running in between classes. So.

Yeah, and isn't it like, how, how do you think that? I mean, you know, it's like, gosh, by you having to put that much work into like getting your education and you know, like the value that you got out of that, I'm sure had to be unbelievable compared to someone that might have had it given to them. No offense to people that have had to pay, that didn't have to pay for their college. But I do think there is that difference of, you know, you really had to work for it, like literally, you know.

Yeah. I think it made law school, it definitely made work like work in the lab and then law school so much easier because in law school I only had one job and then I went to law school and, and I remember just thinking, oh my gosh, this is amazing. I'm actually sleeping. I can actually study. Like, this is what college must have been like for most people. This is great, this is easy. And I remember thinking the same thing about work. It's like, what? I just have to work? That's all I have to worry about. Okay, I've got this.

So there's definitely an upside to having having that really intense.

College experience. I also graduated early from UCSD to save money. But the downside is I didn't get to take those fun classes. I missed out on a lot of social events. And one thing I've really noticed is back in the day you could take unpaid internships. Now in California, they're not legal, you have to pay your intern or give them credit. But back then everyone was taking unpaid internships and I just couldn't afford to do that. And then when I got to law school, and even in some job interviews, they would ask me why I didn't have any volunteer work or any internship experience. And it was so frustrating because I'm like, I wanted to just, you know, shake my fist and go, are you kidding? I was poor. I was poor. I could not, I could not take an unpaid job. Yeah, but so there, you know, there were a lot of downsides of how I did school, but I think.

It made me, I guess, you know the old cliche, it made me stronger.

Yeah, well, and you got a killer work ethic from it, you know, and, and then had to do. You learned these life hacks, which I think even went into. When you, when you talk to your, your law partner, you know, about, you know, you almost like built up that muscle of being able to take these risks. And even though it wasn't a huge risk by asking him, it still was something that you did. Some people wouldn't even do that, you know?

Yeah. I think when you have it, really, when you have to think outside the box, I mean, when you have to think outside the box really at a younger age, then it trains you to always think outside the box. So I'm always going to be thinking of non traditional solutions to a problem, like, okay, how do I make myself, you know, how do I buy a law firm? Okay, well, you could do this traditional way where you join a big firm and you buy into this partnership, or there's this hack where, you know, you join a small law firm and then the guy goes on sabbatical and somehow you take his practice. But there is always, if you're, if you had to think outside the box, you, you, it takes over the rest of your life. So you're always finding or looking for those little hacks.

Yeah, it's like you've retrained your brain to be able to do it naturally without even thinking about it now.

Yeah, that's how I bought my, that's how I bought my first duplex is the hack of. I was like, well, there's got to be an easier. There's got to be a way to do this. I'm going to research this. Oh, okay. There's this FHA with a 203k loan that'll let me do a complete renovation gut job on a house for like only three and a half percent down. You know, you're always thinking about these like little hacks. If you had to hack it through your early life.

Yeah, that's really cool about the duplex.

And now you're.

You've opened yourself up to real estate too, by learning, like using that hack skill.

Essentially.

Yes. And that's also something my law partner kind of guy guided me on when I was telling him I wanted to invest in property. Kind of. He opened the door up to me about thinking of investment property, but the only thing I could really afford at the time were these really rundown, rundown homes. And so I dug deeper and kind of. He let me be. He let me use him as a sounding board as well. But I told him about this 203k loan. I'm like, hey, Dana, what do you think about this?

What do you think about using the FHA to buy a multifamily unit, but then doing a renovation on it through this FHA program? It's going to be a lot of red tape, but I think I can.

Navigate it, given that I'm, you know, I'm a lawyer. And he's like, I think you should do it. You know, if there's a way to get $2 million house for $700,000, then it's worth investing the research into figuring out how you can hack it. So.

Dang. Well, we're talking about that later.

Because I want to hear all about that hack. So let's talk about your. Your. Your practice. So how did that. How did that start?

How did I buy the practice? Or how did I. How did I.

You know, why did I join the firm originally?

Yeah, how did you. So, yeah, actually, now you're. I'm hearing what you said earlier, where you bought it, so let's talk about that. So how did you kind of get into your business that you're in now?

I had worked with my main partner, the one that took the sabbatical. His name's Dana, for shoot since 2013. And Dana is an amazing person, but he's an entrepreneur at heart. So during COVID we were just chugging along. I had, you know, he had made me a partner. And then one day he shoots me an email, and he's like, you know, I really want to pursue other business ventures, and I want to spend less time working at the firm. And by that point, he. He didn't have a ton of hours anyway, so we just started talking about me buying him out of the practice at that point.

Because it made sense for me. I really love the practice of law. I love the law. I think it's interesting. I think it's fun. And I love, love, love my clients. I think they're all brillian. Dana loves being an entrepreneur, thinking about different things, investing in different businesses. His brain's always running a mile a minute, and he's always got a hand in every pot. Right? So we came up with a plan for me to buy him out during COVID And I did. And so far, it's been working great. Great.

And I think both of us are very happy because we're both doing what we love. I love the law, and I also love having 100% control over things. So that's nice. And he has the flexibility now to go pursue a bunch of other business ventures that he's interested in. Yeah.

So was there any hesitation when you decided to buy him out, or was it a clear choice since you had already had experience running while he was in Valley and now you've had more experience just in law in general?

I am not going to lie. There was a push pull. The push was, yes, full control. This is amazing. The poll of, like, heck no was, oh, my God, you could fall on your face. If you have a bad year, there is no one to back you up. Are you sure you can do this? Everyone's going to look at you like you're crazy.

You.

You know, are you sure you want to take over these bank accounts? Are you sure you want this debt? Are you sure you want to take over the lease? Dah, dah, dah, dah. I mean, there's all these, like, huge, I would say huge risks in owning your own business.

As I'm sure you know, but there's. There's a ton of rewards, too. And I honestly just made a judgment call of, well, if I fall on my face, I fall on my face. It can't be any worse than working two jobs and trying to go to college full time, so I might as well give it a shot. And I'm glad I did. The firm's doing very well, and it hasn't been as bad as the bad moments. Haven't even been as bad as I, in my head, thought they would be. So.

So when you. Is that what happened? When you said, if I fall on my face, I fall in my face? Did you go through scenarios of, like, what that would look like?

Yeah, of like, okay, so the biggest. The biggest thing.

Stressing me out was wasn't me making money. Like, well, I'm fine. I have this. I have this rental. You know, I have my rental property, whatever it was. I have a paralegal and law clerks, and they need to be paid. So I looked at the books and realized what I. What. What I had to do to make sure they were paid every month. And I'm like, as long as I can make this amount, I'm fine.

And cover rent and the other expenses. So I came up with my bottom line, and the bottom line wasn't that scary. So that's really what gave me the confidence to be like, okay, you know what? I don't think I'm going to fall on my face because I can make this bottom line happen and maybe it'll be tough for me for a couple months, but it'll be worth it.

Yeah, that is, that's really great. So I'm, I'm writing down your formula for doing the thing as we're talking.

Do you mind if we go through it?

Yes, please.

Cool. So, and it's cool because I, you've helped me define a few and then I've added one since we've been talking, like one that I haven't had yet, which is surprising that I haven't had it. So number one is surrounding yourself with people, like, like minded people. That seems like it's something that you do in order to do the thing.

Yeah.

You're even with your. When I think about your dream job and like knowing how important it was for you to be surrounded by people that, you know, light you up essentially.

100% the people I'm around make my life amazing and I'm lucky.

And then the one that I'm most excited about because I've had this as a piece of the formula, but you've helped expand it so much more than I've had in any interview. So thank you for this. So it's been, I had it down as being open minded and just not having any kind of ego, you know, or rigidity when you're doing things. And it seems like that's been a huge part of you doing the thing. But we've expanded it with like out of the box thinking your life hacks and just really being resourceful in that way and just going outside of what, what did you, what was the word you use? Unconventional thinking. Yeah. And I think, I think that's huge when I think about that out of the box thinking and then also being able to like find these life hacks with doing the thing. Right. Because you can't just go this ordinary route if you really want to achieve great results.

No, I think so many, I see so many of my friends get, get in their head that there's only one path or one way to do something. And so when that doesn't happen, when there's a roadblock, like they don't pass a test or you know, they, I don't know, something, some family event comes up where they can't, that path is blocked to them. They don't explore other options or really think Critically about how to get around, you know, how to still make what they want happen even though that path is blocked. And I'll just sit there and think about it, like, all right, what can I do? Can I move this? Or can, you know, is this, like, is there somebody I can talk to to get here? Is there some kind of weird loophole in this law where I can still achieve this? Do I need to go talk to a city council member? I don't know. But there's usually another path or way around an obstacle.

You just have to keep picking at it.

Oh, that is good, Kayla. That is so good. So with. When you're thinking critically and you're asking yourself those questions, like, what can I do to get around this? Is there anything else that works for you to just. And I. You've had it since you've been young, right. Where you've had to creatively think. But is there anything else that you've noticed that really gets you to, like, go into that place of. Of thinking of other ways to around it?

Oh, it's so hard. And I'm not perfect at this. But not getting sucked into the negativity of I can't have my goal or I can't have my thing now because the path is blocked.

That is hard. But I gotta do anything to not get sucked into that because that'll block all my thoughts on how to get around it. If I just keep thinking, oh, I can't have it. I can't have it now. So I take myself out to ice cream sometimes I take a break and go get coffee. I do whatever it takes to get me in a better mood. So I don't see. No, I just see, okay, what do I have to do now to get around it? Yeah.

So it sounds like you're focused on the next step and not so much future, tripping into all the things that could go wrong.

Yeah, I mean.

I've seen so many of my friends who are successful fail multiple times at things that they needed to do. Good friend of mine failed the bar twice, and every time just got back up and kept thinking of ways around it. Like, okay, well, I didn't do well this time. I'm going to try a different bar prep class. Okay. I didn't pass this time. I'm going to try eating differently. I mean, he, like, he never got dragged down by the no. And just kept trying to pick at it and find different ways to get around the problem. And eventually he passed and became an amazing attorney. So there's always a Way around it. You just can't get bogged down in the. Oh, I didn't, you know, my path is blocked right now.

Oh, yeah, that's so good. I'm loving these nuggets of like, I'm like, I'm clipping that.

That is so good. So the other thing I didn't have down, which I don't know, it's crazy to me that I didn't have this down because I sold bookstore to door Right. 80 hours a week when I was in college. That was how I put myself through school.

Oh, my God. Oh, gosh. Okay, girl, you win.

No, no, it sounds like similar. You're just reminding me of, like, what I, you know, of that. You, you're just, you're just reminding me of what that was like. And so, so it's just that that work ethic, which I think is a muscle that you have to flex to build the work ethic. Because there you are busting your ass, you know, like with your job in college and doing it all. And then it's almost like your law stuff was easy because you already had to flex those muscles when you're in college.

Yes, and I think the law stuff was also easy because I was that, like.

I just liked it more too. I mean, I did not like these general education classes that you have to take in order to get a degree. The upper div stuff was fun, but to me, the law is just so much more interesting. So that was also probably helpful. But mostly helpful was the fact that I got more than five hours of sleep and could attend class.

And then it looks like the. And I don't know if this is risk assessment or what this is called, but we'll just say what it is. But the other piece is that concept of asking those questions, which is like what your boyfriend did in college, which is the why don't you. And then what you said to yourself before opening up the practice or buying the practice, if I fail on my face, I'll fall on my face. And then going through those scenarios, which. That is a risk assessment, because you're making the uncertain certain. You're already saying, well, if this does go wrong, what is going to happen? You're going through all of that and that's what then moves you past fear.

Yeah.

I think that's entirely true. I wouldn't say I'm very risk taking, actually. My law partner is very okay with risk. I'm really hung up on can I make sure my staff gets paid and can I support my, you know, Can I support my family? Is my big, big one. That prevents me from taking.

Bigger risks. But once I can assess that I'm going to cover my staff and make sure they're okay and I can support my family who needs me.

Anything after that.

Is gravy. So that helps me in my risk assessment is knowing what's super important for me to cover. And as long as I can cover that, then I can make that, then I can take that leap.

Totally. That's so good. So what do you think has been the hardest thing for you when it comes to doing the thing?

Not.

Listening to. Okay. The hardest thing is putting or setting aside people who tell you you're making the wrong decision because it's the non traditional decision. I cannot. I care about what other people think. I care about other people. So unfortunately that means I care about what they think. And everyone's got an opinion about everything. And.

Usually they come from a good place. The people saying things, it comes from a good place. I had a mentor tell me, why are you buying a duplex for this much money when you can buy a giant home out in Vista that's twice as big on twice as much space for less money? Or, you know, and it gets in your. That's just an example, but it gets in your head. You're like, wait.

Why? That's like the traditional thing is to have like my single family home. What? Why aren't I doing that? Or I had a lot of people ask me why I didn't go into Big Law. Why didn't you go into Big Law? You can, you know, it's a steady job. You don't have the ups and downs of running your own business. Like you have more support staff. Why didn't you do that? It's prestigious.

It gets in my head, why didn't I do that? What's wrong with me? Why aren't I doing that? And.

It'Ll mess with my mind for a couple days and then I gotta ground myself and remind myself because why am I not doing Big Law? Because I want flexibility, I want freedom. And I want to take the clients that I want to take. I don't want to take the clients somebody else tells me to take. Why didn't I buy the giant house out in Vista?

Because I want passive income and I want to make sure that I can care for my family.

And I don't like Vista. I like living downtown. So.

That'S why. But I'm not perfect. And it'll still take me a couple days of really questioning Myself to reaffirm that I'm doing the thing that I want to do.

Oh, yeah. So good. What would you say is your biggest piece of advice for the listeners on doing the thing?

Oh, this is so good. But I would say.

Make sure that you know what makes you happy before you even start pursuing the thing. And as you're pursuing it, check in with yourself and ask, all right, is this going to make me happy? Is this still going to make me happy? Because your goals and life experiences change, especially if your goal is, like, your thing is more long term and just constantly checking in with yourself to make sure you're still on the path you.

Want to be on.

I know we didn't. This is kind of out of left field because we didn't talk about it before, but it's really helped me is just I wanted to be a lawyer, and I want, you know, so I constantly have to check in with myself. Do I still like the law? Do I still want to be here? Do I still want to be owning my own firm? Or do I want to get out? And my answer is always, yes, yes, yes. I love my firm. I love my clients, I love my staff. Okay, it's a yes. Maybe someday it won't be, and then I got to reassess, and that's okay.

Yeah, I love that that was your biggest piece of advice, Kayla. Because when I started this podcast, it was, you know, all about doing the thing, you know, like, yeah, yeah. And then as it got going, I realized, like, I don't want people to do the thing out of, like, you know, distraction or avoiding or comparing themselves to others. I really want it since I'm. I'm now, like, bringing these. Bringing people to people, I want to make sure they're doing it out of alignment for themselves. And you just verbalize that so.

Well. Yeah. Sometimes your goals change as your life changes and it's. Or your thing changes. Right. And it's okay to not do. You know, it's. It's great to do it, but as soon as that's not in your. It doesn't fit into your life and doesn't bring you joy, it's okay not to do it too.

So.

Good. So is there anything that I did not ask you that you wish I asked you?

Oh.

That'S a good question.

No, I think we covered so, so much. I guess we didn't really get to talk about my experience in Italy. Like living in Italy amongst all these crazy artists who were actually all doing their thing, and I kind of stepped into Their world, which was pretty amazing. But that's a story for. That's a story for another time.

Oh, man, Now I'm so curious.

Oh, I lived with a crazy French girl.

In Florence and it was. It was. It was probably one of the best experiences of my life. But.

Yeah, she was doing her own thing at age 19, and I have so much respect. Respect for her. Artists are their own. Artists listen to themselves. And I think that's. That's part of it. They don't let other people really get into their head that much because they're already so outside the box that they just have accepted that from themselves. But it was a good experience to be around people who really just don't. They're just doing their own thing and they don't care about any what anyone says. To the contrary.

Yeah, that had to be amazing just to be part of that experience and get to see a whole other brain working in that way.

Yes.

It honestly was the best experience of my life. I am so grateful for everyone who encouraged me to do it and helped me get there.

To see that side of people and meet different people and have an entirely different experience is great. But.

When I came back, I was just so grateful that I was allowed to do it. It made me look at humanity and feel faith in them again. I guess that everyone encouraged me to do it and was so nice and so supportive. And everyone I met there was so nice and so supportive. I came back thinking, okay.

I know the political situation in the US is pretty dire, but I still have faith in humanity. Hmm.

So good. Well, how about you share with the listeners where they can learn about you and then talk more about your law firm and all the things that you do there, too?

Yes, you can. I am on LinkedIn, but I also have a website, usipattorneys.com you can find my contact information there. And I don't have any social media, actually. It was a conscious choice. Tend to never have it. So you can't find me on social media other than LinkedIn and my firm's website.

That's so funny. I'm doing the same thing. I actually even did an episode with my. I have a holistic coach that I work with and. And she. I did a whole episode on me if I'm going to get on social media or not. And the answer was not yet. So I'm also just on LinkedIn, so that's great.

Yeah, I have. I have accounts that I have to use to keep track of infringers for my law firm. But. But nothing. So I know how they work. I'm not like, oh, I have no idea what the TikTok is.

But I don't have anything personal.

Oh my gosh, I love it. Well, you're so cool. I, like, really, I really enjoyed talking to you and I'm so grateful that you're able to take the time and do this with me today.

No, thank you for inviting me. It's a blast to chat with you and I look forward to seeing you out in the real world soon for maybe happy hour.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Thanks for listening to the do the Thing podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. But even more, we hope you'll be inspired to do the Thing. Do you have a burning question on Doing the Thing that you'd like answered? How about an inspiring do the Thing story of your own that you'd like to share? We'd love to hear all about it. Just. Just leave us a voice message at do the Thing callcast co. Or email us@helloothethingpodcast.com.