Episode 87 - Kate Middleton, A Somatic Therapists, On Understanding Your Attachment Type Is Key

I do really believe 100% from every part of me that everyone has the capacity to be able to do the.

Things that they want and not to be held back by the mental baggage that's in our head that we want to push through.

Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. In each episode, we get down and personal with people who go after the things they want to make all their wildest dreams come true. Join us as we unveil and dissect a formula for what it takes to do the thing. Here is your host, Stacy Lauren.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. All right, guys, I have a Do the Thing favorite back with me again. I brought Kate Middleton back on and she is the person that has done several episodes with me. And then also she's been the expert on our different panel episodes as well, both the dating panel and then also the self love panel. And I also work directly with her. I met her originally when she was the authentic relating facilitator for an authentic relating training that I went to. And then she also happens to be a somatic therapist. So she is all kinds of amazing and has been a contributor to the do the Thing dating dare challenge that we have had. Now we're in the second. The second round of that. And she's always really helpful for the participants. And we were talking about really what was going on right now in the group because we gave them a dare on reviewing their attachment style. And so then I realized that there's really more to this attachment style that I wanted to do. I recommended a book that they read called Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller that I really found really quite helpful for me. And actually one of the participants in the challenge that's in round two is wanting to even do a book club on this book. That's how much it's resonating both with the learning your attachment style and then also how to help yourself once you learn it, and then also identifying partners.

That would be good for you.

And so Kate and I were talking and she has some really good modalities and to help people understand this concept more. So I thought I would bring her on and we could talk about it. So. Hey, Kate. Hi.

Thanks for bringing me in. I love this conversation around attachment and someone in the challenge is sparking a book club around that because the idea with healing attachment wounds or moving towards a more secure attachment style is that the healing happens in relationship.

So I love that there are a.

Few people wanting to gather and support each other. In that.

Oh, totally. It's been really great.

Especially it's been really neat seeing the.

People that participated last challenge and now that are already got some foundation for what to expect. And many of them met people already from it, so they're just kind of. They're calling themselves the Lurkers, sort of helping support the next people and the new challenge. And so it's been really cool just to kind of see it develop and grow as everyone's getting to get to dive into it more.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Great.

Okay, so I'm going to assume that for those of you who are listening, you've either taken the test or you will take some sort of an assessment to see where you land on the spectrum of attachment. And alongside of that, I think it's really helpful to consult some people closest to you and see what they might have to say. Because it's one thing to assess ourselves and then it's another thing for those who we are actually in relationship with or have been in relationship with to give us some insight into where we might have some blind spots or things we might not be as aware of ourselves.

Yeah. And actually, Kate, I would love it.

If you could start off and just.

Kind of explain what attachment is and just a little background just for people that may not have heard and are going to be interested after they listen to this, to check this out and be able to take the quiz and then be able to really understand where we're going with this.

Yes, absolutely. So attachment theory and attachment styles. Relational attachment is sort of buzzw a pretty popular theme these days for people to explore themselves and in their relationships. And for good reason. It has been around a while, but it sort of became a common phrase or more known theory, I would say, in the last 10 years or so. But it came out of some pioneering psychologists and who were curious about bonding and relationship specifically. That is set up in developmental stages. So from in utero up until about three years old, that sets up, let's say, a relational template for the rest of the your life, which can be changed. It is malleable, but if not intentionally worked on, generally tends to stay as it was when we were very, very young. And so essentially it has to do with what support was available to us in our very dependent first years. And if there was adequate support, which includes responsiveness from our primary caregiver, engagement and attunement, then that sets up a template of secure attachment. We take that as it is safe for me to exist in the world. There are people out there who Care about me, who are looking out for me and allows us to grow into more, let's say, relationally trusting individuals. If support and connection is not available to the degree that we need it when we're very young, then we develop strategies, coping mechanisms essentially to, to handle the pain of that actually. So one attachment style is called anxious attachment. And the essence of an anxious attachment style is that it's proximity seeking. It's looking. The person is looking to feel better and self, soothe through connection and feels threatened by separ or by being alone. That is not at all inherently bad to seek soothing through connection. It's really what we're wired for. But when it's the only option, it becomes a limitation as adult selves. Another attachment style is called avoidance. And these are kind of commonplace names for them. If you look more into the research and the science behind it, you'll hear them described as slightly different things and avoidant. Someone with an avoidant attachment style is threatened by proximity and seeks space to feel safe. And so in relationship, what that can look like is perhaps a bit of an aloofness or a non responsiveness. And these individuals tend to have a harder time accessing their feelings and identifying and speaking their needs. They're a little more distant and disconnected from perhaps their felt sense.

I think the term for that in the dating world is emotionally unavailable, right?

Yeah, absolutely, yes. And then there is another attachment style known as disorganized attachment. And that is when. When the individual doesn't really know what actually has them feeling safe or secure. So they swing between anxious and avoidant strategies but never really feel soothed. And that is a little more complex. I will say with all of these attachment styles there is room to move into secure attachment. And even for those, let's say, born into secure attachment through life happenings and relational ruptures, it is absolutely possible for them to tip out of security and into another attachment style. So ideally, in, let's say a process of getting to know your own attachment style and the way you tend to show up in relationship and how to move towards or to stay in security or secure attachment is first identifying your methods of seeking safety in relationship, you can reach back into history and sort of consider what was available for you when you were younger. Absolutely. But most importantly and more importantly is having to do with who and how you are now and who and how you are now in your existing relationships. These attachment styles don't only show up in intimate partnerships, but they show up in all relational places. So let's say step Number one, you take a quiz. Step number two, you consult some people who you have connection or relationship with and you have a chat with them and hear their side or what they might have to say or how they might interpret your attachment style. You might also work with therapist or a coach who is well versed in attachment theory and just get a bit of a lay of the land of okay, who are you and how do you show up now as adult you in relationship and how does that support relationship and how does it potentially harm relationship and just gaining some insight and clarity there. So that's sort of the first few steps and then let's say you've gone so far as to identify your attachment style and you so let's start with anxious. Say okay, the quiz says you're on the more anxious side of the spectrum. So what do you do now? And we can talk about this. I can talk from my own experience. I have experience at different times of my life and being more on the anxious side of the spectrum and also being more on the avoidance side of the spectrum. Fortunately now I can say that I am in a securely functioning relationship. And all the hard work really does pay off in terms of these processes because it's absolutely possible to find your way back to or to secure attachment. So starting with an anxious attachment style, that means that you seek soothing and safety through connection. That's why you might be calling someone a lot or texting incessantly. You're trying to get a response so you can relieve your own discomfort through the connection or through understanding you are proximity seeking. One just want to normalize that that a lot of people are and those with an anxious attachment style, they also come with a lot of gifts. Usually they're very empathetic people and connection really matters to them, which is a beautiful thing at first just identifying that that's your go to soothing mechanism. And now is an opportunity to flex some other muscles, essentially some self soothing muscles so that you can learn to be alone with yourself and feel safe enough there to actually meet your own emotions and to start to meet your own needs from this place.

I think this is really great. I love that you were able to point out the good part about the anxious attachment because it's almost once you learn how to manage it better and you realize like you come through that self realization that that's what's being activated, you're then able to take the good parts of the anxious attachment but then also have the benefits of moving into secure.

Absolutely, absolutely. And some other great things about Those with more of an anxious attachment style is they're the ones who will more actively seek therapy or coaching or healing spaces and to work on themselves. They're more inclined to do that because relationships really matter and there's a desire to improve upon themselves and to deepen and strengthen existing and future connections.

That's a really good point. I wanted to mention also too, you had mentioned that someone gets a certain attachment style from the support that they're receiving, and I wanted to make sure you guys know it's also, if the parental support you got was inconsistent, that's where this can also get activated. Because you might say, oh, I don't understand why I'm anxious. My parents loved me and they might have loved. Or they. I don't want to say they didn't love you, they definitely loved you. But it could have been inconsistent. Maybe they were tired one day and they didn't show you the same amount of love that they did another day. And so that's where things can get triggered as well.

Absolutely. Yeah. Maybe you have siblings and they were overwhelmed or they were just not able to for a number of reasons. To be there for you all the times that you needed doesn't make them wrong or bad in any way, nor does it make you wrong or bad in any way. Anxious types tend to be quite sensitive, which I also think is a very beautiful thing when we learn to harness our sensitivities and to work with them rather than be ran by them. So let's talk a little bit about this self soothing. And one is essentially step one is really building capacity to be with your own experience. So maybe you have experience of as soon as something happens, you want to call a friend and talk about it. Or maybe you are always listening to music or a podcast or you need the kind of background hum of things happening. You are sort of looking for constant external reassurance to let you know that you really are okay. And so the practice here is to start to identify places in you internally, in your internal environment and external environment that feel pretty okay, that feel pretty good and accessible or even easy to connect to. For example, maybe you like the quiet hours of the early morning, or maybe you have a pet who you really love to be around. Maybe you like to go for a walk and you could do that without listening to something. You could do that just by yourself, taking in the view or the scenes. So starting to identify when and where you do feel okay in your own company and to start to do a little more of that so that eventually, when you feel activated or triggered, you can use one of those as a go to method to self soothe before seeking soothing from another. That's a pretty simplified practice, but it is very much a starting place. So there's that, there's this, the work that you can do on your own, and then there is work that you can do in relationship. Now I think it's possible to be practicing healthier attachment or secure attachment in most relationships. But those are familiar patterns of that where your attachment style gets activated are not necessarily the easiest pathways. So I would say to be actively working on moving towards your secure attachment by being around those who model it for you. This is where the healing power of a therapeutic alliance comes in. And this could be a mentor, a coach, a therapist, a friend. But one that is secure functioning. That means that there is a responsiveness, availability and an engagement or an attunement to who and how you are in the moment and who and how the other is in the moment. I do think that it takes both, coming from both sides of self practice and relational practices to establish secure attachment style. It's both and how we show up alone, how we show up with another. Because sometimes we'll get to a point where we're pretty comfortable then being in our own company, but as soon as we are with others, or especially when we're with and around others, that we want to be around even more, say in the early stages of dating or relationship, that our attachment style can get activated or triggered and we fear the loss of connection more and therefore try and grip a little tighter on what's happening or on the relationship. So then it's an opportunity to recognize that to what you are gripping, where you are gripping or clinging, or where you might be wanting a little or asking for more than is available at this moment in the relationship. Especially if it's in the early stages, let's say talking dating, since this is a dating challenge. If we're reaching for the other to immediately become our person who sort of is everything for us. That's way too much than the early stages of a relationship can or should handle or hold up. So it's also getting into right relationship with your expectations and with the timing or pacing of relationship. Sometimes it happens that you go way deep in really, really quickly and that works out for everyone. But sometimes it's easier for a gradual deepening and opening in relationship in terms of attachment styles.

So when someone's secure and then they're setting a boundary with the anxious, I'm wondering what that would look because I think there might be people that if they're anxious and someone's secure setting a boundary, they might think that they don't like them or they might take it in a different way. Right?

Yes, that's such a good point. The our attachment styles can certainly skew our read on what others are communicating with us. So in this scenario, someone with a secure attachment style is saying maybe something like, I really enjoyed our date the other night. I do want to get to know you more. My next few weeks are really full. So how about we schedule something in three weekends from now which might be seen way too far away. To the person with an anxious attachment style, it might seem like, oh, they're just saying that they're just creating space and then they're going to cancel last minute. I know this game already or I know how this plays out when maybe they really mean it, maybe they are just really busy and that's the soonest they can hang out. So I'd say in this scenario to ground an anchor into yourself, to give the benefit the doubt. And then if the person say upholds their boundary in a way that honors both you and them, then that's a really good sign they meant what they said. If the person doesn't honor the boundary in some way or doesn't manage to meet, say they do cancel last minute, then you can make up more conclusions at that point. But one of the things about anxious attachment style is it tends to lead us towards worst case scenario, future tripping. So it's always helpful to lean into, okay, what is true right now? How is it that I can either choose to be with that or to not and what actually feels self honoring for me right now, Maybe it's true that you want to date someone who has more availability than that and that would be a great way to then honor their boundary and honor yours and say something like, you know what, thanks for letting me know. I'm actually looking for more connection or availability than that. So I really appreciate what we shared together and wish you the best.

And I'm wondering because you just brought up a really good point. And the thing that really helps with the anxious attachment style is to become like a way better communicator than what you've been, you know, in the past. I'm wondering in that situation, would you even try to go back and forth with the person? Because one of the things I had.

Mentioned in the, in the last one.

Of the calls that I did with the group was dating is a really good practice for relationships because you're able to like speak up for your needs.

And communicate versus just making assumptions.

And I'm just wondering if this could be a good time for that as well.

Oh my gosh, yes, absolutely. I say that anxious, avoidant and disorganized attachment styles all tend to struggle with communication. And openly speaking from an owned place is so important from both sides. So that is shifting projection and blame into ownership of like when this happens, I feel this, this is what I'm wanting or needing. Pretty simple format. When you don't call me back within, I'm just making this up. But 24 hours I feel frustrated and what I'm really wanting is easier communication or more responsiveness from you. Could you imagine at least texting me a reply within a few hours? So that would be one way of communicating your needs and desires and sparking a conversation around something that might feel a little sticky and that is perhaps another call or practice because communication is so huge and it really, really is core to relationship and it doesn't always come easily to anxious or avoidant attachment styles. For example, someone with more of more anxious tendencies might tend towards over sharing which can actually push people further away rather than bringing them closer like they're intending to. And those with more avoidant attachment styles tend towards, well, avoidance and unavailability. So non responsiveness, which is no better.

Yeah, I think we thought of our next call too because I think that would be a good addition after this one is to have them be able to practice those conversations. But I think just you guys knowing that that's what you need to work on based on your attachment style I think is really good information. And it also helps almost like deactivate the charge. When you can identify what is coming from an anxious attachment, once you are able to be self aware about it.

The charge can get way more reduced.

Because you know it's not coming from the other person, it's just something that they may be doing that's activating a certain part of you.

Exactly. And this is key because then you can become the support that you're wanting and needing from the other person for yourself. When you realize like oh wow, I'm really activated right now, my attachment system feels under threat in some way, I'm feeling anxious or I'm feeling more needy than normal, then you can be that holding, you can be that connection for yourself that you're looking for in another. But it takes slowing down, calming down and getting present to do that. Because you essentially are being, becoming the parent figure or the secure caregiver for the younger or more anxious part of you that needs holding.

Yeah, I love that. That's huge.

It's so good.

That's why this work is so powerful. I just really resonate with it. So for the somatic practice on being anxious, first you're going to identify the places in which you feel good or okay, which is either taking by yourself, which is either taking a walk or really whatever is going to help you get calmer on your own. And then from there you're just saying what is true right now, how can I choose to be with this or not? And then if it comes time to.

Needing to communicate, there's more work that.

We need to go through on that. But for the most part it's just taking that owned place and taking ownership of the way you feel, not what the other person is making you feel. Is that right?

Yes, yes, absolutely. And that I really think is a good starting point. Of course there are way more possibilities or options of sort of things that you could do to self soothe and establish soothing connection. But that is a great starting point. I think that's like enough of a starting point. But to also I'd say do your homework work of identifying what are triggers for you. What activates more of an anxious response in you? Is it when someone doesn't call when they say they would? Is it when someone gives you a look that you take it to mean they're mad at you? Or just start to identify where and when and why you get activated so that you know these sensitive spots that you have in relationship and you can be more, more aware and more on top of those.

So good. Now what if they notice their person they're dating is anxious and they like them and they want to continue the relationship, what would be some strategies they could use with that person?

This is so good. It really takes using what skills you do have and honing in on them, especially communication skills. So identifying your own boundaries, like how much space you need in order to connect to me, that's really the whole point of a boundary. It's not just a hard wall or a loud. No, it's this is the space that I need so that I can be in connection with you, so that I can be in relationship with you. So if you are dating someone who has an anxious attachment style, be clear on your boundaries, set some boundaries up front in the relationship and then follow through on what you say you're going to do. If you say I don't check my phone between the hours of this and this. So if you text me at that time, I will get back to you the following morning and then actually get back to them the following morning as an example. And just know that this person is probably having more of a response than you in certain scenarios and have their best interest and their heart in mind. It doesn't mean you have to completely conform to all of their needs, but you are holding their best interest in mind when you are setting boundaries in the relationship. But trust that you can model the kind of attention and engagement that you want in relationship and that will have a huge benefit for your relationship and for them.

Yeah. And what would it look like if their partner was anxious? It would just be they would want to be texting them all the time and wanting to see them all the time. Is that kind of the.

That would be more of it. Like they probably want to dive straight into the relationship. They want to see them as much as possible, communicate as much as possible, and that they get triggered or activated when that's not available or less available. So you could say something like reassure them of your interest and desire in the connection or in getting to know them better and let them know that you prefer to take it a little slower or in order for it to feel safe for you or real, authentic, genuine and not some sort of a fantasy thing for you, you need to go slow or slower, which I think is pretty valid.

I like the way that you're able to destabilize the charge with someone else too.

It's.

You're having, you're like this big tool belt now. I think we got the anxious. So thank you, that's amazing.

We ready for the good old avoidance?

Yes.

Oh, avoidance. And I think about these styles with so much compassion and love because as I said, I have been them at certain times and they can change depending on the relational dynamic, who you are in relationship with. They tend to be more set. But so for an avoidant, let's say you've identified yourself as avoidant and you want to move towards secure attachment because you actually want a relationship that feels like a relationship where both people feel happy and nourished and connected and where you have enough space and you show up as a good, kind, caring partner. So you've identified the desire, you've identified your attachment style and you can start to identify the things that you do to keep yourself more separate from or disconnected from those around you as a self soothing technique. So often it is avoidant types tend to have things that they do that they really love. To pour themselves into, let's say a passion, a hobby, something that they like to do alone or is their thing. Maybe it's a sport, maybe it's creative pursuit, but they can sort of dive into it for just hours and hours and hours on end and be totally absorbed, which is not inherently a bad thing. But when it comes in the way of connection it can be a limitation. So that is called autoregulation. Where the anxious types need to work on self regulation or self soothing. The avoidant types need to work on co regulation, being able to find shooting and safety in connection to others. So that could look like such thing as parallel play for example. I'm just throwing something out there, but maybe you love hiking, that's your thing and normally you hike alone. The stretch for you is to find a hiking buddy who you go out on the trails with maybe your thing. And I'm going to throw this in here too at the risk of yes, it comes with a risk of bringing this in, but I will say that avoidant types can tend more towards using substances in any manner of ways. But that can be a go to shooting mechanism. And so it can also be identifying when and where you do that and reaching for connection instead or something more connective. Often with substances, whether it's smoking a cigarette or some weed or drinking or whatever it is, there's a tendency to want to hide the behavior. So it actually supports the isolating patterns of avoidance. So we want to get out of isolating patterns of avoidance and build capacity to be in connection with others and feel comforted by it. Small baby steps. But start to identify your go to ways of self soothing and then start to think of some people or some connection, some relationships that feel good for you to be with, to connect to and consider like what right now is your sort of right amount of time, is it going over for dinner? But knowing it's sort of a maybe a two hour thing and the thought of like spending all day with someone feels totally overwhelming. So start to identify where it feels safe and then you can begin to stretch those muscles of connection and lean into spending either a little more time with this person or having more frequency of contact in incremental doses. All the while reassuring yourself that actually this is okay. Actually this feels pretty good for me. So that's one thing, one starting place. I will say also with the concept of like this parallel play practice, one of the reasons it works so well for those with more of an avoidant attachment style is you don't actually have to be Talking while you are sharing space with someone. So let's say you're out for a hike. Half the time you're probably not talking, you're just huffing and puffing out for your walk. Or there's a bit of space, there's, I don't know, 20ft between you two. If you're in a challenging part of the trail. Another way is, let's say it's with someone you're dating. You could do something reading side by side. So you're doing your own thing, but it's in connection. But you don't have to be talking, which can be overstimulating for an avoidant type. So that is the building capacity to be in connection and seeking out relational spaces that affirm a sense of security and connection. Speaking and do the thing language.

Because you're actively building this capacity to be with another, you're flexing the muscle, right. And that's when you're bringing this other person into your life. Is that kind of what that idea is? Is that you're building that capacity through.

Continuing flexing the muscle? Exactly, exactly. But it's. If you go to the gym without having worked out for a year and you go as hard as you can, you're going to get that delayed onset muscle fatigue a few days later where you're just hobbling around and are totally useless. So it's the same thing with connection for an avoidant is that in order for it to be regulating and move them towards a secure attachment, it has to be progressive so that it doesn't overwhelm their system. And because if they do feel overwhelmed, they'll just shut down, retreat, and think that they need way more space. So that is important. And that is one of the, I'd say sort of the challenges with attachment work is that you can't rush it. You have to honor your own speed, which is sometimes slower than you want it to be. I'll just say that I would say that's true with any form of therapy and it's practice of patience in a very impatient world. So I just bring that in. And then I want to mention a couple other things that those with avoidant styles tend to do more, so much more so than those who are securely attached or those with anxious attachment. And they tend to pick up on the flaws or what they don't like about someone quickly and almost reassure themselves that they don't want or need the connection because of this list of things that they don't like about the other person. And then they Sort of run them over and over in their mind until they actually annoyed by them or smothered or irritated and they want less to do with them. So to counter this, a simple practice is an appreciation practice, actually letting the other person know what you appreciate about them. Either if it was a way something they did or a way they were with you or just personality trait and saying it out loud and then really taking that back in for yourself so that you begin to admit to yourself that you actually do like things about this person and you do like things about connection and relationship.

And you're doing it with the person, right?

Yes, you're doing it with the person. You could also do it as a journaling exercise. But the, I would say the more potent practice is to actually share your appreciation with. I like that especially.

Yeah, especially if you're coming off as avoidant, which then can be called emotionally unavailable. You're showing that you're working towards being available by this appreciation practice in a way.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And I think the benefits of this and knowing what you are and being able to identify with the other person is even though it's going to take time, you're going to have a deeper connection with that person because you've been able to work towards these things together.

Yeah, absolutely. And you're going to have a deeper connection. You're going to get more enjoyment out of the connection. The thing about avoidant types too is they tend to have a bit of flatter affect or be less emotional and that often need like more stimulation to feel something. So this is where maybe extreme pursuits come in or workaholism and things like that. They need more to feel something, something, but they're not looking in the places where it's readily available in connection. So it's also starting to tune in and turn on to be the feelings that you do have moving through your body and starting to notice and name those and make closer contact to them. Whereas someone with more of an anxious preoccupation needs a bit more distance from there or needs more perspective and distance from their emotional landscape. Someone with an avoidant attachment style actually needs to get closer to them or learn how to get closer to them.

And then how about if you're in relationship or dating someone with the avoidant attachment style?

Right. So I would say that it's often harder, I just want to name that to be in relationship with someone who's avoidant if you're not, because it's hard not to take it personally. So I would say try not to take it personally and recognize that it really is the relational template that they were born into and that yes, of course you impact them and their behavior, but to the best of your ability, try and hold on to that. That it in this scenario, it's probably not so much about you as it is this attachment style or it's not just about you. Because I think taking it personally will just lead to more of that dynamic. Another thing is to recognize so if you do have a secure attachment style and you're dating someone who's more on the avoidance side of the spectrum, it's a little easier to see and perceive things that are going on in the relationship and to have some more flexibility there. If it's an anxious and avoidant pairing that is doable and much more challenging because those attachment styles play off of each other very much. So that often takes intentional work together either like going through a course together, working with a therapist or coach together, or having a shared intent around how you are going to do relationship in a healthy way so that you don't just continue to play out these dynamics that are not that supportive to healthy relationships. But let's say you are dating someone with an avoidance style. One is two to give them space because they need an amount of space to feel safe. So honor that. Honor their boundaries to the degree that you can and then see if there's any room for them to come in closer once safety is established. So once they know you're not threatening or smothering or going to be texting them at all hours of the day or demanding their attention 24,7 then you could start to have some conversations around like, okay, I get that you need space and you like a lot of alone time. And for me to feel like I'm in a relationship, I need a little more than this. So is there somewhere we can meet in the middle? Can we commit to however many nights a week or some sort of a consistency of connection and communication so that your needs can also be met and see if there's ability there to come closer. I would also say that with any attachment style it also takes recognizing where there is room for connection and change and where there's rigidity and if and when it's something you might have to re evaluate because it can be in, let's say, a dynamic of say, being with an avoidant. It can be really hard to pull away because we really believe that if we could just get them to look at us more and notice us more or more time with them or then it will be or would be okay. But there is some sort of sobering truth to attachment styles that it also takes owning up to what's happening in the relationship and what you're really wanting from it and recognizing if you are both coming in as equals or if that's a possibility, which sometimes is not. Sometimes one person is going through something really big, a loss or a change, and they need either more soothing or more space or vice versa. And that's okay. You can stretch for the other person to support them through that. But if that's always the case, then I'd say it's worth re. Evaluing.

Yeah. And I would say just the biggest benefits of. I would, if I was you guys, I would listen to this. I mean, I'm going to listen to it probably like five times myself. But it's really understanding that concept of noticing and naming whatever it is, whether it's within you or within another. And then that really helps deactivate any charge you might have to then be able to be in connection and communication. So I just think this is so huge the way that you're explaining it because you're not only explaining what it is, but also a practice to help kind of flex the muscle to get more deeper into connection.

Absolutely. And that's, that's a great way to think of it as a muscle because that's something that you can take initiative on to strengthen yourself. And consistency is key. Looking for connection in the right places is key too. You might find, for example, if, let's say you've just come out of rough breakup and you are still feeling tender about that and say the. The other person was unavailable and you were wanting more, maybe they were avoidant and you came out of that feeling very anxious. I would say for yourself, for yourself, for your heart, for your whole body mind to seek connection where it's actually available to reprogram or repattern a new possibility. So going for something different to what didn't work before is reparative and healing.

I just wrote it down. Reprogram a new pattern and new possibility. I love that. I've never heard you say that before. That's really good. It's really good because that's what you're doing. And then it's kind of neat because you could be discounting someone not when you don't understand attach the attachment stuff. I'm still calling it stuff. Sorry. But when you don't understand where it's being activated from. And then you could discount someone amazing because you just don't Understand that what's being activated and you might be missing out on a really good opportunity for connection with someone. So I think that's why. Another reason why it's this is so important.

Absolutely, absolutely. And also you might be discounting someone because they're going through something that has them more tipped towards one side of the spectrum than another. For example, I can speak about myself right now. I've been working with attachment therapies and theory for a long while now and have been pretty securely oriented for several years. And I'm in a secure, functioning relationship and really happy in it. I'm also very pregnant at the moment and I notice that to feel safe and soothed, I need actually a lot more connection and proximity than I normally would. I actually, in other non pregnant times, love a lot of space and alone time and get pleasure out of doing my own thing a lot. And it's just so interesting to experience this from the inside and know that it's actually very situational and it makes a lot of sense based on my hormones and all the things going on internally. So that you can consider also where you are at sort of in what cycle and phase of your life and what you're wanting or needing more of. As long as you know that those needs can and probably will change from time to time.

Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because that is so important. Because just you might see someone evolving but not knowing where that's coming from. And just by kind of understanding during different transitions, certain things could get more activated. I think that's really, really helpful to know.

Yeah, absolutely. And my situation that I talk about is obvious to my partner and he gets it. And there are other situations that might not be so obvious that you might have to be a little bit more explicit about. If someone close to you is. Falls ill or something significant happens, the big sort of life shifts that shake you to your core. You might need to let your partner know this is what's going on for me When I'm under stress or duress, I tend to need either a little more connection or I need a little more space. And this isn't always going to be the way, but this is what I'd love from you right now.

So. Good. Should we talk about the third one that you mentioned?

Yes, I say that with a little bit of. I'm not sure if that was apprehension or hesitancy, but it's a little trickier because there's more going on and there's less sources of safety for this individual so the first step, if you do identify as disorganized attachment, is really to work on resourcing practices, I.e. practices that have you feeling safe so that you can start to recognize when you are safe. And therefore you can actually start to feel safe. Because a lot of the time from a disorganized attachment, the person will feel under threat when the situation is not actually threatening. So it's sort of getting into right relationship with safety and connection. And I would start to look to all the places that you find comforting, all the things that help you to feel more relaxed in your system and to do more of that and to start to recognize and identify what it feels like in your body when you do feel that way. Like what does safety feel like in your body? And then if there are people or places that you feel safe, safe to be around or to be with, start to identify what that feels. Because there can be an over identification with threat or perceived threat. Because once upon a time you were not safe. So it's not that you're wrong or bad, but now it really takes reorienting to what is, what is okay in the here and now. And then how do you do more of that? And then how do you start to reassure yourself in the moments when you feel unsure or uncertain that actually I'm okay, actually in this situation I am safe. And this is sort of flexing the muscle of the middle ground or walking that middle path a little more of not going too far to either end of the spectrum of proximity seeking or space seeking and seeing if you can really find some middle ground of boundaried connection. So for someone with a disorganized attachment, I would say that it's really important to work with someone else. A mentor, a coach, a therapist, someone who can model safety and secure connection, and who your relationship with can be a representation of what's possible elsewhere.

Yeah, I think that's really great. That's really great advice. So. Oh my gosh, Kate.

Well, this was amazing.

Time just flew by like crazy. I don't even know.

Insane.

I know. This is so good, I think, because I'm just so into what you're saying and I am wanting to really explore everything you're saying even more.

What would you think would be the.

Biggest thing you'd want someone to just take from this conversation that we're having today? This is great.

So the biggest thing I would want someone to take is to identify their. How they seek and sense safety right now. And then ways that they can actually stretch to find it. Through other connections or other pathways. So for example, the anxious types are identifying their go to methods for feeling less anxious and what they can start to work on themselves and in connection. So really building those those connective muscles and same for the avoidance and disorganized. What do you do right now that maybe works to some degree but not really. And what could you start to do more of that will actually support secure connection? So good.

Thank you so much for doing this with me. I really, really appreciate it. This was super valuable. Oh good.

Absolutely. I love talking about this stuff and exploring it. So for anyone listening, if questions come up or things you want to share, you can bring them to the Facebook group or you can reach out to me directly and I'm open to continuing the conversation.

That's great. Yeah. Will you share your website and your information as well?

Yes, yes I will.

It is.

You can find me@Kate MiddleTonyoga.com or I'm fairly active on Instagram Ait MiddleTonyoga and both are good options for contacting me.

Awesome. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

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