Episode 93 - Niimah Ashong Developed His Edge Framework For Creating A World Of Difference

I do really believe 100% from every part of me that everyone has the capacity to be able to do the things that they want and not to be held back by the mental baggage that's in our head that we want to push through.

Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. In each episode, we get down and personal with people who go after the things they want to make all their wildest dreams come true. Join us as we unveil and dissect a formula for what it takes to do the thing. Here is your host, Stacy Lauren.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. I am beyond excited about today's guest. Most of you guys will relate to his story on some level, and I hope you walk away ready to take action and live authentically for yourself. We can all feel like an outsider on occasion. I know I did. Maybe you felt like an imposter at a new job, or perhaps you struggled to find your people in school. But what if you felt like you never really belonged? My guest today is able to go through how he worked through this by finally owning his identity and went from fitting in to fitting out. His mission in life is to help others use what makes you different to make your difference. I know his powerful story will impact so many of you in such a profound way. It is such a pleasure to welcome Niyama to the show.

Hey, Niyama.

Hey there, Stacey. It's good to be here. Thanks so much for the invitation.

Yeah. I'm so glad you're here. It's funny. I'll tell the listeners. We chatted for just a few minutes right before the interview, and you've already been spilling all these nuggets. We have to hit record now before you say anything else. Amazing.

I love that because, like, from my standpoint, if done properly, if open to it, everything that is said can be used and be meaningful for someone. So I really love that. That idea right there. Glad to play with you.

Yeah, for sure. So I would love to start off and have you share your background and your story.

Yeah. So a bit about me here, I think. I think the thing that's most pertinent is that I grew up in a household where my parents are from Ghana, West Africa, and I grew up finding out that I wasn't African, nor was I actually, like, American. I remember my dad sitting me down and saying, niyama, look around you. You come from a different background. You come from Ghana. You have a lineage that you can point back to, that you're the people around. You may not have. Right. And so that put me in a position that of recognizing that I wasn't quite African nor was I quite American. I was in like this in between space and I, I think I spent my most of my life being, trying to figure out how do I navigate and be me in the world given the fact that I wasn't quite like everything else. And where that really started to, I, I, I, when I really started to like take its fruition was once I started working, kept getting in jobs where after I had been there for years, I would find out that 3% of all people who were in that profession were African American. And up until that point, I didn't even consider myself that like I didn't know how to even navigate. But I kept finding myself in rooms where like the statistics said, you're really not supposed to be here. And that's the states of my honest, like that's the, that's the sentence that runs in my mind a lot. I'm not supposed to be here. And what, what grew from that was a, I was an actuarial consultant at a, at a consulting company. I worked in tech back in, back in the day where there's like, yeah, well, I worked in tech and there just wasn't a lot of other people like me there. And I started to realize that there's something here that, that really is bothering me. And the thing that was bothering me was I didn't feel any different than anyone else. And yet at the same time, when, when I was confronted with different stats, different numbers, for some reason there weren't more people like me there. And I couldn't understand why. And so that's really been a driving force for me. And what I do in the world right now, which is really in the most simp, holistic form, I help co create a world of difference. I go out and I find things that make people different, find ways that leaders can incorporate that into the work that they do, into the way that they lead, into the impact that they make and help them embrace not just like more of what has been done, but what is it that they have uniquely to contribute so that we can expand like the, expand the playing field and ultimately get to the place where any kind of statistics accurately reflects the world around them. So that's, that's me in terms of like what I do. And I think what I do is it's just like I'm just really connected to my soul's calling. And that's all about co creating a world of difference. I have Two children. Well, one's coming up in about six months. And, you know, I have a lovely life and I'm really glad that I can spend my time really just being in, in service of this larger mission that, that's driving me forward.

Yeah, there's so much in that that I love. But starting off with, well, some. Starting off with something really weird because you mentioned being from Ghana and I told someone last week, if I hear Ghana one more time, I think I have to go there because it's something where a friend of mine's going to Ghana to film some, some video series. And then I just heard about another friend who just hired someone from Ghana and I was, what is up with Ghana? So anyway, this, that's fair.

I'm happy. I'm happy to connect dots. I like to say it takes two dots to, to make a line. So if I'm the third one here and it's to Ghana, like, lean in.

Yeah, I know. I'm like, what's up with Ghana? But anyway, and then as far as the way you felt growing up, I mean, I can imagine that identity kind of questioning and then that the. It sounds like you were saying, like that feeling of not belonging that you had when you, when you were going through that hard time. What do you think you were able to do? Like, I know the work that you're doing now is because of that and driven from that, but I'm just wondering what came from that time in terms of the, the things that you built up. I'm imagining you built up strength and perseverance and all of that. But I'd love to just kind of dive into that a little bit more.

I love what you're imagining. Oh, if only that was true. What I, what I built was an ability to be a chameleon. I can walk into any room and understand what the power dynamics are. And really, I'll say power dynamics. But the real element is I learned how to be safe in any place that I go to and to understand, okay, what is it that works in this space? How can I be aware of what's going on? And it's almost like a. I describe as almost like a 360 degree vigilance. I walk into the room and I notice things, I notice how people are, I notice what works in that environment and so forth. My thing was I realized very early that I wasn't going to fit in in most of the things I did. So I actually chose a path of what I call fit and out. I became quote, unquote like that guy. I was a class clown. I was the one that was like, you almost wanted me around because something ridiculous could come from that. And I would rather you see me in that light. Any other thing else. Right? Anything else that. What I'm not saying here is I was afraid of being seen as a black man growing up in America because the stereotypes and things that were available to me felt very limited. Whether I was an athlete or I was a dangerous person or I was really smart, I felt like a very narrow room to go. So I developed. I developed the sense of being PC. And what I would really say, Stacy, is I developed a way to make other people feel incredibly safe around me. I have a smile that you can't see it on audio, but it shines. It really comes through. And I've gotten that feedback from people. And one of the things that I realized is that part of the reason that my disposition is so jolly or it comes off in this way is that I want to let people know from like, miles away that I'm safe. I'm on the safe ones. You can relax, you can be around me, and then you don't have to look at when you see me. I want to make sure that you see me. And so. So those were some of the things that I actually picked up on. I wanted to say strength and perseverance, but that wasn't my reality. My reality was I'm going to try and make sure that you don't. You don't think that I'm too different from you. And for the most part, I'll be like, it wasn't. It wasn't as though it was. It wasn't a struggle. I didn't realize this, Stacy. I didn't realize that I was doing this for decades. You're talking to me now as Niyama, but I. From high school, for about 15, 20 years, I went by the nickname of Nemo, like the fish. And that's how I would introduce myself to people. That was on my resume and so on and so forth. So I want to come off and say as like. As though I was like, super enlightened from a young age. And it really helped build me up there. But I learned other. I learned other tools and skills that now I'm. I'm leveraging. And in a more mature way, I will say that's the reality of growing up thinking that I didn't fit in, I didn't belong.

Yeah. Thank you so much for clarifying because I think that that definitely helps. I'm wondering so was it almost like you had on a mask to sort of fit what other people were expecting you to be?

Yeah, I think so. I think the way I describe it is like, as a chameleon, because it was like I could change my mask or whatever. It was like, Stacey, I. I was me, right? To the extent that I thought I was me, I was. I actively pushed away anything that. Where someone would consider me black. And I. Yeah, I did that pretty actively. Like, I was involved in a number of different programs growing up, and you would find me in the Asian Americans Association. You would find me in the women's group. Like, I love being in spaces where. Where you wouldn't expect me to be, but you wouldn't find me the Black Americans group, for example. And. And so I think that's. There was. There was a part of me that wants to own into. This was not something that I was actively thinking about at all times. I was passively wearing these masks. I was passively choosing things and thinking that it was me, but it was actually me running away from having to confront what. What. Like, what I would be required or what I felt would be required if I was considered in my mind right here. What I didn't say out loud was reduced to stereotype because of what I look like. Does that make any sense, Stacy, When.

I say that 100%, yeah. No, it definitely does. And so trying to think of how to word this question. This is really big. I really. I really appreciate you doing this with me.

Yeah.

Yeah. So the reason why you didn't go in the Black Americans group at the time was just because of the expectations you would have to. You felt you would have to be able to. To be there, or was it, like, part of that identity?

That's a good question. I think if I play with that. And I appreciate these questions because it gives me a chance to really get to what is true. The reality is there's a couple different things that come up. One of them is, yes, I didn't want to be seen. I didn't associate myself as a black American, and I didn't want people to think of that first when they saw me. And there's a part of me that feels really bad saying that out loud right now, but I love the part of me that just knows that that's the truth of at least how I grew up. There's another part of it that. That shows up where I described it as someone that's like, I'm afraid that people will find out that I'm not Really black. Like, I might look this way, but like I, it's part of the ways that I found safety and I created safety for myself was that I ended up taking on what I would say is white culture. And I, all I know is like, again, it was just me living my life, but I, there was a part of me that's like, I don't, I don't identify with the culture, but at the same time I should. I grew up outside of Camden. My parents, I come from, parents from, from Ghana. I look the way I do, but if I go hang out here, I'm like, I don't, like you're going to find out I don't have, actually have a black card. And there was something about that where I was like, I want to stay away from it. And that's, these are, these are some of the truths behind it all. I want to frame it in a more empowering way. And I'll tell you, at least at this time, in terms of where I'm thinking about it, I was going to say this is what my 14, 15 year old self was doing. But then when I think about it, if I'm being honest, as I go through my work career all the way until, I don't know, 29, 30, I was very much in the same kind of, kind of frame of like, I don't want you to see me in this way. I remember someone at my workplace coming to me once and saying, oh, I'll see you at the happy hour later. I didn't know there was a happy hour. What happy hour? It's like, oh, it's, it's the Black Alliance's meeting. I was like, oh, you absolutely will not. And this was, I was, I was close to 30 at this time. It was just. But like I still had that, that point of view on. And I guess, I guess the thing here that I'll say, and I'll toss it back to you, Stacy, to see what comes for you. I just became a black man like five years ago and I. And that is something that is, it's been an incredible journey to understand and also recognize that there's still to just to embrace. I think that's, it's been an incredible journey to embrace. And so I want to put that out there. Like this is part of what has been leading me through and bringing me to this, this point right now.

I think this, this conversation is so important because this is how even change happens is by being able to talk and be able to have people understand different points of view. So then you're able to really get in there. And I'm just wondering, like, so what changed? So five years ago, how did you finally let the chameleon off the hook?

Oh, yeah. So there's. It's interesting because like I said, it was just me, so it wasn't like anything I was actively looking for. I think that there were two important instances in my life.

That led to the point where the person you're talking to right now, at least in the last five years, actually, I'll say three. The first is, was through my job. My job actually required me to support some of the affinity groups and diversity and inclusion groups within the organization. And as a result of that, I got a lot closer to people who I got a lot closer to, to diversity and understanding, like, its importance and. And how. How it helped an individual to feel they belong by. By having these spaces. I have a. My point on inclusion and diversity is I'm like, most organizations get it wrong. I would hate to be told that, hey, the reason that you got hired was because you're black. Of course it's never going to be that. Never the case. But the idea of going into rooms or going into groups that were specifically, in my mind, segregated because of a surface level demographic of me really just never appealed to me. And it still doesn't to this day. I do see the value in it. I do understand the value of having safe spaces and having places where you can be understood in this way, but it really. It really didn't appeal to me. But I recognized that I would. It was. That was when I started to recognize that I was actually actively running away from it. And I wanted to have more. More understanding, do my job better. But I also started to realize there was something important for me. There was a part of me that just wasn't being honored. And I remember sitting in a basketball court, watching a movie. We were. The company that I was in was in the room where 50 Cent used to. Used to have that floor. And so he had a basketball court there. And we were watching the movie. It was called White Like Me. And it was a documentary talking about systemic racism and institutionalized inequality. And. And it was made by a white man talking to other white men to explain like, hey, this thing is real. And Stacey, it's not lost on me. It's part of me still in this moment, still kind of icky about it, but it's not lost on me that it took a white man trying to. Trying to talk to other white men for me to Actually hear and see, wait, this thing that my parents have been saying, that people have been saying around me, that has clearly been around in the spheres that I've been in, it's actually true. And, and with that, the second thought is, wow, I'm really not supposed to be here. And that was, that was a really important moment for me. That was one of the moments where I started to. There was a follow up thought which was, but I am here, so what do I want to do with it? And that's, that's part of what started to break me free to, to pursue something new new, to pursue something and say, what do I want it? Like, how do I want to leverage this? Because I keep finding my room myself in rooms where statistically it's an anomaly that I'm there. So that was the first thing. And then shortly afterwards, my wife and I moved to Singapore and we spent several years out there. And I think the importance of that was I got a chance to remove myself from the environment of being like a black American. And any of the history and stories associated with that that I was dealing with on my day to day, the way I would describe it is like I just got. I just got a totally different experience of being me out there and an experience of being me in the body and skin that I was, that I grew up in. And just being a place where for years people saw me as an American first. And that was a bigger element of it. As I'm thinking right now, I'm remembering a moment where I used to push this, I used to push my blackness away so much. But there was a time where I was walking down the street and there were so few of us in Singapore. This, in the area where I was at that one day, some, some guy was walking by me and he was talking to someone else and we looked at each other, we locked eyes. And eventually I'm like, I need to make sure that people know that I see them out here. Other, other, this, this. So this black man walks by me, we lock eyes and we just walk by each other. And I don't know how it happened. Stacy. It's a really surreal moment. We both extended our hands, shook each other's hand on the path and just walk, kept walking. And I think that for me became an important part because this is, this is just some of the elements that took place as I was learning to embrace this other, this part of me that I had been pushing away for years. And then the last thing that really came in was one day I was In a circle full of powerful coaches and my mastermind here to support me and my movement. And I was like, I want to have a movement that is like really helping everyone be who they are. And someone said to me, I was going by my nickname of Nemo at that time. Someone said, why would you go with the nickname of Nemo when you have this powerful name? Niyama Nemo literally means no one in Latin. And you're going around with this. I remember looking at her and saying, okay, thanks, but I'm definitely Nemo. We're good. And someone came up afterwards and said, here goes the thing that you should know. You have a hard time being understood not because you're not saying anything, but because you're. You're trying to, to make it fluffy and, and palatable. And all around his words, like all around white, it's like, you are a big, black, bold, beautiful man. And when you show up that way we get you. Stop, like, stop trying to hide your words. Like, just say what's true for you. You don't need to make us feel safe and say in reality, that last bit, you don't need to make us feel safe, was one of the things I think that my inner child, my whoever I like, I needed to hear that. I didn't realize it, but most of the things I had done in life was to make other people feel safe. Because if they didn't feel safe, they may call the cops, they might. They might kick me out of a group. They may not even let me in. And then I would never have access to that opportunity. Or to me, it's really this. It became life or death. And I didn't realize I was walking around my entire existence in this life or death fear state. And with that, that's when, like, I was able to reclaim my name as Niyamah. I thought about a lot about President Obama. I was like, if he did, if he was President Barry Obama, it would be very different than him being Barack Obama. The name makes a difference. And, and that's really where that was the beginning of me being able to start talking about this journey start. And I guess for myself, like, just going through the part of recognizing at least a big component of where I was out of alignment with what it is that I wanted to be and bring to the world. It's not all that I do in terms of working with people who are black or African American. That's not where I live. But for me, it was my journey of being able to break through the story and the, the character and the, the limitations I had put on myself in order to try and belong when all I was really doing was really attempting to fit in.

The quote I've been living with lately, since I heard about it, I think a month ago, was the woman that wrote the book Five Regrets of the Dying. She had said one of the top five regrets was, I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expect to me. And that's what keeps coming to my mind as you're talking, is just how you really have now embraced this, this, and now you're helping others embrace living their, Their. Their true life.

Yeah, I mean, that, that feels good when you say it, Stacy. Yeah, it, it is. It's accurate. It accurate. It feels good and it's accurate. I think there's, there's a component there for me where I also recognize that it's that second half, like, what are you going to do with it? And I think, I think there's. There's a component for me that I've been recognizing. It's not just about living your true life, but there's. There's something that you have to offer. There's something that can be given to the world because you are here. Stacey, I don't know what got you to start this podcast, but you came out here and decided you're going to do this. You have hundreds of episodes and we're now able to have these conversations and people get a chance to experience it because you decided to show up and bring something that was great for you and the modality that works best for you out into the world. And because of that, we all get a chance to benefit from it. And that now that gets me the thought of people being able to see what is actually available to them. People being able to see that there's more than one way to be successful and that there's actually quite. There's so many different ways to accomplish it that why not have the way that works for you also be a part of this? And I talked earlier about a world of difference, and that's something that, that came to me recently where I was like, oh, this is really what I'm here on this earth to do. It's like to create more difference in this world and have us celebrate that, have us value that, to have individuals know that it's important for them exactly as they are, but also to get paid for it, to make their contribution in the world, to make impact based on it. Something here and it excites me. It's something that also scares me, but it's also. It feels super high level. At the same time, it's the most concrete thing I can ever consider. So I'm all about living. Living your truest life. And my thing is. And how can we do that in the most visible, impactful way if that is also true to you?

Yeah. What you're saying is really hitting home. I'm actually, in addition to the podcast now, I just did a do the thing, start a podcast, video, go live video. The other day, one of the challenges that I'm running, and it was just a fluke where I had done an expert panel and the guy that hosts my podcast platform had mentioned that as a dare, because the challenge is based around dares. And this time around, one of the people was interested. So I'm like, great, we'll just do a Facebook live to see who's interested. And all of a sudden all these things are spurning from it. But I'm bringing this up right now because it's that idea of being able to help someone else start something that's true to them. And I'm just. I interviewed this amazing couple yesterday. They were married 43 years and they told their. Their marriage story. And so many people think, and this marriage is just an example of life. Right. Think that you could just show up that way and be married 43 years. Oh, you're so lucky. All this stuff. But as I'm talking to them, they're working. You know what I mean? They had.

Yeah.

At this thing. And I'm just, oh, my gosh. I texted her this morning because I did the interview yesterday and then all these ideas flooded because the reason why I interviewed them was she was thinking about starting a podcast and I was, oh, my gosh, your podcast has to be raising the consciousness of relationship in the world. It was something. She had said it. So it's not something I came up with. And I gave her a list of 10 episodes to come up with love, all about marriage and family and even relationship with yourself. And so anyway, and she texted me back and she's excited about it. And it's like, it feels so good to help someone who is so in tune with who they are as a person. And meeting her and her husband, they're so in tune with their relationship and they've done a lot of work. And now knowing just that this little one little prod can help potentially now all these people value from that experience.

Yeah, I. I love it. Part of what strikes me about what you said was the fact, you said like it was, it was her words, not. Not your own. You heard the wisdom. I'm in this conversation with you and Stacy. I'm, I'm kind of meta, like I'll stay present with what's going on and kind of describe what's happening for me in real time because I think that's, that's where the truth, the truth lies and where my edge lies. I've recognized like, you find things to be curious about that, that other people haven't been curious about and you choose to stay in, in that curiosity and linger there to find like what's, what's really real and what's available for, for an individual there. So I think that's really wonderful that you bring that to the table. And I can understand how like something so deeply resonant with those two could, could come forth from that conversation because like, you're, you're with someone and, and you're listening and you're finding and you're, you're. You bring for me, it feels like you show you shined a light on a mirror of like who that person actually is. It's like this is your words, this is what you do. And if this is what, this is what's up for you. Let's just lean into this because you have 43 years worth of experience in this field here, in this, in this arena. And it's. That really strikes me and it's, it strikes me less about them and more about your skill and the way that you contribute yourself towards like actually listening to people's stories and pulling out, pulling out that which is important and resonant and, and living within us that just might need a little bit of space and a little bit of recognition so that we can take it and actually run with it. So I like, I'm really glad you.

Shared that story and I love the way by you saying, adding a little bit to that quote, the I wish I'd had courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. And then kind of adding to that and thinking about what you can do with that now and how you can actually contribute in a big impactful way just by you now sharing that. I think that's, that's really cool. So I gotta play around with that a little bit more now.

I think it's, it's fun for me because it also like it when you bring that up. It makes me think about how we started off this conversation and one of the things that's been really wild for me as I, like, stepped into. I call it owning myself. Right? Reclaiming and owning myself. One of the things that's really wild for me has been this recognition that, well, everything in the world is made up. People had an idea and then they made it come to life. You know, there's. We have these rules about even like traffic lights. Red, red, yellow, green. People decided they used to be those colors and they should mean those things. Everything around us is completely made up. And we just choose as humans, as individuals in our society, to. To lean in and to. To embrace that and share a common. A common understanding around it. And so what's the reason that this. I'm smiling over here and it tickles me so much. It's like it's. It doesn't need to be that complicated to make an impact. Doesn't need to be that complicated to, you know, to. To have a tremendous influence on someone. Part of it is just showing up and then allowing. Allowing whatever shows up in that moment to be the way I would describe it is like to be exactly what someone needs and allowing that to be meaningful. It's been really interesting that the more that I embrace myself and I own that, the more that I feel the freedom to just do and say whatever needs to be said or to create whatever needs to be created, knowing that there's no right or wrong and depend, no matter where we end up, someone can gain value from it.

You're getting out of your own way to be able to. To be able to make that impact. Because that's usually, usually where what holds people back is something that they're thinking is not aligned with what they want to do.

Yeah, I think that. I think that's it. So you're catching me right now after I've tapped back into the world of difference movement within me. But if I'm going to be honest with you, and that's. That's my commitment in this conversation. There was. There's a lot that I've been doing where I would say, like, I was mission oriented, but I wasn't actually mission driven. The difference for me is mission oriented was everything. Everything I've done in the last few years have been like, probably most of my life has all been toward helping people feel comfortable being who they are and then bringing that out into the world. That's what I do. Even when I'm being a class clown, I'm like you. You have this much more room to be silly in your life. Don't worry, I got you. But What I've recognized is like, there's a difference between being mission oriented, which is like knowing that I'm on a path, and being mission driven, which is now this path is pulling me forward. There's, there's more risks that I'm looking to take. There's. There are new projects, new ideas. Stacy. And I'll be curious if you have any thoughts or considerations around this here. But the idea for me is of putting together a World of Difference festival and bringing in artists and directors and musicians and scientists and people from all different walks of life who are one of the first, one of a kind or one of the only in the things that they do and platforming that in an amazing way. That's something right now that's really energizing me. The thought in my mind I just recognized that would have come up that I, that I expected to come up was who am I to do that? And another part that just showed up was just more, oh, we're getting, we're getting this done one way or the other. Like this is happening. Let's bring this out to life. So it's something that I wouldn't. There are these components that are taking place right now as I'm looking and seeing how I'm able to shape my world because I've chosen own who I am and to blaze my own trail out there. There's, there's been a complete shift and opening of what else becomes available. And as this goes on of living the life true, there's this other component of like that purpose that's pulling things forward. Be curious what, what, what if anything landed for you and what I just.

Said, yeah, a lot. It's funny. So, yeah, I will totally sign up and help you with the dreams.

I'm dancing every year. My hands are in the air.

And what just came to mind, I just went to a, an investment group last week of people that are all investors and looking. We, we joined, we bought some NFT and then we're all investing in other people's businesses. And there was like a moment where we all just kind of talked where there was a lot of moments. We talked real talk about the story in our head and it kind of was. I basically had said it's almost. We all have been on the land of misfit toys and now we're all together getting to like, you know, like share this experience. And I think the idea when you can put people in that have lived this different life and then bringing them together and seeing that just that beauty in the acceptance of just that, being different, I think that's so, it's, it's unbelievable.

So when you say that, you really, you really melt my heart right here. Because I love that element of coming together, the co created element of it. And see, and I think about that room and I think about each of you and your own experiences and what could come from it. And you know, I was sitting here talking about this vision that I have around this festival, bringing people together, and in my head I was, oh, it's not fully formed. I shouldn't be talking about it right now. And yet there's another part of me, it's like, this is how it gets formed. We go out and we talk about, we talk about what it is that we're creating and we find others who are, who would love to be a part of it. And rather than waiting to see what's the right thing, am I fully prepared? Do I have the exact plan down, which I do. I have all these things laid out. It's more about who do I want to co create with, who wants to co create with me. If we're going to be in alignment here, who can we bring together to have that and bring forth their experiences, their resources, their visions, and what can be created that is even larger and greater than anything that I alone would have been able to do on my own. I could put together a nice festival. I'm not worried about that. I just feel like what else could come from this? Should we be able to find others who have completely different experiences to mine, who look at life completely differently and different from most other people who've put on festivals? Let's use that as an example and see what can grow from there. So when I think about that room that you're in and y' all having that real talk, I get excited about what new ideas, what new things will be able to come to life as a result of y' all being together?

Well, yeah, because everyone has their own contribution that they can bring to something. And what you said is when you bring all the different perspectives and all the different viewpoints and all the different experiences, it does create this magical vortex that people can then ripple among other things. And the other thing that you said that I is by speaking it out loud, even when it's just a rough draft idea of a goal or something you want to do, that's how it's going to get formed. Because that's when universe hears you and you're able to then meet the people you need to meet. And it's all these things that happen. And I don't know, that's just something I've been really exploring lately is just having that rough draft idea of a goal. And that came from one of the podcast episodes. Someone had mentioned that. And I've just been loving that idea because so many times people have to have every step planned or what if people hear me and then I don't do it. And all these inner talk that can stop you from saying something, but oh my gosh, when you speak it, wildfire happens. All of a sudden, things get created so much faster and so much better and so much more magnificent because you're speaking it out loud. And then all of a sudden the ideas come and you meet the right people and it's just this magical thing.

I find myself, as you're saying this, deeply curious. What's something that's a rough draft for you that, that you're. That you're working on or thinking through right now?

So, I mean, I have a few different things, but one that's really kind of in my space is identified the formula for do the Thing. It's been. It took 100 episodes and coming so fast. Yeah. So finally the formula has been identified and now I was. When I my business, before starting this podcast, I owned a staffing company for 20 years and helped people that were in prison and in recovery get jobs. And that was so rewarding and so fulfilling for me. And so that's something I've been really missing since exiting that business. And so anyway, after the formula was developed, I was, oh my gosh, I could help people that are in prison, so when they come out, they're able to, to really do the thing, whatever that thing is to them, whether it's getting back together with their family or just living in society again. Because giving someone a second chance is like, I mean, it's. There's no better feeling for me than that. And so, yeah, so I. That's. My rough draft is creating curriculum for prison systems. And it's kind of. It's hard sometimes you go through. It's like, oh. And I keep saying this where I'm like, I don't know if I'm doing it, but I've done a few episodes with people and I've interviewed people just not on the podcast. Like people that have come out of prison and then also families that have been affected by it, just to kind see what resources there are now. And so anyway, that's the rough draft of the goal. And. But I always feel I still have that thing where I'm. I don't know if I'm doing it because I don't want to putting myself in a corner, but who cares? So what I can still say I'm doing it and then it. It not be fully formed and then if it ends up not working out, then it doesn't work out.

Oh, I do. And. And like in my mind. Actually, it's not even my mind. In my heart, my body, my chest is expanding. Thought highly of you. And now, wow. This is who I'm talking to right here. My. The parts of my mind that go off are a. I can't wait to. For you. For you to let me know how I can contribute toward whatever it is that you're doing. However it comes to life. Other parts that come up are just in you sharing this with me right now. My. My whole vision that can take is taken on some new dimensions to some additional pathways that. That come to life with it. And as. As much as I'm lucky enough to spend my self to spent my career in like a lot of different places, from hard math with actuarial work all the way to coaching and some more spiritual things. So there's things that. That feel. It may feel not tangible to say it out loud, but to my. In me, what I found is that's just a prototype. It's a minimal viable product. Will someone buy the version of me saying it out loud? I don't have to go create it. I can. That is a product in and of itself. So when you say this year I'm connected more with you, connect more with what it is that actually fuels you. Stacy, I'm looking forward to more conversations with you to dive in more into your world because I think that when you said giving someone a second chance, there's just nothing better than that. I just. That that spoke directly to me, directly to my heart. And all I feel right now is like, how can I put my energy toward making this vision or whatever iteration or whatever it blooms into, Even if it blooms into nothing more than just this part of our conversation. I just feel really energized to come behind us and to galvanize behind it.

Yeah.

Thank you for that.

Yeah, no thanks. I love that. And you know, it's coming to my mind now is it kind of leads us back to what you said earlier. And I wrote this down because I just think it's so powerful and I'd love to talk about this more. Helping people feel comfortable with who they are and bringing that into the world. I love the fact that you're doing that, and I'd love to hear more about what that process looks like.

Yeah. All right. Thanks for that. Look, in certain ways, we're living it right now. One of the things I have in terms of my process, I live life through a series of distinctions. And distinctions, for me are one of the most powerful ways to both make decisions, but also to distinguish your own vision and mastery and leadership. So one of the distinctions I use is, rather than trying to create something, I choose to model it. And right now, I want. In any space I'm in, I want to model the future that I wish to see. Because in that moment, what we've done is that we've already broken through and eliminated some of the barriers. And just like the naysayers of saying that this ain't possible, this can't be done, but yet we are experiencing it right now like it is happening right now. All we have to do is do this more and bring more people into this space, bring more people into alignment with this. So I would say underneath everything, this is element of we can model the future that we want in the moment. Another way that I look at it, my mentor says, actually it's a modification. So that my mentor says, I'd say a goal is a place to start from, not a place to get to. So it's like, yeah, a goal is a place to start from, not a place to get to. Yeah, that feels a really big part of the underlying parts of. Of the process, like, where is it that we want to be? Where is it that we want to go? Like, if I was really being true to me in this moment, what choice would I make? I look at life as, like, having all these little crossroad moments and being able to choose a safe path or choose a path that's, like, 1% more in alignment with me. And from my actuarial days, I recognize that you can approximate a curve. This is my math coming out here. But you can approximate a curve by. By looking at it from a bunch of straight lines. And to me, those straight lines are all these small little decisions that we make in life in any given day, any given moment that have a chance to tangentially move us closer and closer to what it is that we're looking for. So I do have a more concrete answer to what you're saying. But I don't want to miss out on, like, the underlying part, which is it's about living it. Living it now and building out from. Building out from what is available Even in the smallest iteration, the smallest way that it can live until that continues to grow. In terms of the. In terms of like. If I was going to say, like the methodology and the things that I walk people through and work people through, I have found that this has been a. It's a journey. There's a. There's a journey that takes place, and there's three phases to that journey. First phase is about owning your outlier. Owning the thing that makes you stand out, stick out that. That has you, like, distinct out into the world. And this is why distinctions become so important for me. Because if you're not able to know what's distinct for you in terms of your values, your choices, the strengths that you have, the advantages that you have, the places that make you uniquely you, and what you can contribute as a result of that, and if you can't own it and not look at it just as a thing that is accepted, but actually as a thing that the world is needing, it may not be the world that you're in right now, but it may be a place that there's a. There's someone out there who can use exactly you. That. That's the first part of it. We spend a lot of time just like, owning everything that makes you, like, outstanding, then we go on the blazer trail. So if that part's like your inner journey of being able to get. Get your mindset in a place, get in a place where you can actually own yourself and claim yourself, the next part is the blazing your trail, which is about your external journey. How do you actually create in the world around it? So for me, I'm a talker. My entire business is set up with me getting the conversations. And I have a team that listens to the conversations and they pull out worksheets and they. They email letters. And we're writing a book that we. That we're choosing to launch at the end of the year. I just made that up a week ago. I said, let's go, right? Let's go publish a book. And I was, okay, I know how we'll do it. I'm going to have a whole bunch of conversations and y'. All, and we're just going to do the thing that we do. And to others, it's going to be. It's like, where did this book come from? How did you do this in two months? And so on and so forth. But because I've blazed my trail and I've aligned my external pathways with the way that I naturally show up in the world, this is, it's easy. It's, it's not necessarily simple. Yeah, it's, it's going to take some work, but it's, it is actually quite simple overall. Like, I know what we're going to do for this. We're going to have a book by the end of the year on that. So we own our outlier. We get ourselves internally owning all of us that we go and we create external things around it that's blazing our trail. And then we go and we shape our world. And that's, that's, that's leveraging and elevating our impact, deepening our influence and really saying, okay again, what more can we do with this here? Can we go and help other people go through the same journey as well? And how do we step into our leadership? Because the world needs what we have to offer. And that's. So that's, that's the, that's the path that we go through. A lot of times I'll meet people and people are in different phases. It's not, not entirely linear. Sometimes in order to own your outlier more, you have to go out and do more external work and try and go do something and be put into a confrontation where you realize, oh, actually there's another part of me that I haven't claimed yet. And you go back and you own that part. So it's a really wonderful dance between all, all these different parts along the journey. But that process has worked for me over and over again. And all I know is the person that I am. Right. Time of this conversation, Stacy, will be even greater by the time I come back and listen to this again. Because of that.

Yeah. There's so much in there that I love. I'm also wondering, like, how do you help someone identify what's distinct for them and what they can contribute so that the way they're owning all their parts. How does that, how does that, what does that process look like?

Yeah, so it, it depends on the individual. But a lot of it is what you do, Stacey. You listen to their stories and you hear the parts and what they say that, that resonated with them. What I, what I'm thinking right now is that it's about honesty and the honesty being like it's about honesty. And I'll also put in this word here, I'll say like energetic transference. It sounds more woo woo than it is, but it's, it's like realistically we can tell when someone is just kind of talking at us or telling us something that they know, but they don't actually believe there's a different quality to the way that they speak when they're, when they're invested in what they're saying. And there are, there are a lot of processes we have that, that help people go on this path on their own. But the key part of it is really around owning your story, telling your story, listening to yourself as it's being said, taking in feedback and being honest and trusting, like the feedback that you're getting and, and bringing that, and just bringing that out consistently, finding out what is energetically aligned and what is not. I'm going to answer this question that way here, Stacy. I have a lot of different tools in my mind, so there's a lot of different things. It's not this one, one component of it. Yeah. When people are in conversation with me, I say, look, I'm having a multi dimensional conversation with you. I'm hearing what you're saying, but I'm also listening for what you're not saying. I'm seeing what you're putting out, but I'm also seeing what isn't being said. And all I'm looking for is like the paradoxes to see, like, where are, where are the places where you say something. But if we let you talk. I love letting people ramble. If we let you ramble, we'll find the contradiction in there. And if we can resolve that contradiction, then you can gain some ownership, then you can gain some more power again and again. That goes back to the element of the distinction because you're able to see something and allow yourself to then get to a crossroad and say, I can make a different choice. It doesn't have to be this way.

So if someone's at home or they're in their car and they want to at least do a first step, which would be maybe asking themselves some questions to be able to kind of get into this mode. What would be some questions you recommend them ask themselves? To be able to feel comfortable with who they are and then be able to bring that into the world.

Yeah. Okay. I'll look at it from the standpoint. I like, I like to look at people's edges and like your advantages. Right. So let's focus on that component specifically. And what comes to mind for me on this year is to ask yourself a few different questions. One of the questions I would ask myself is what annoys you? What annoys you? What are the things that other people do that you think are like, so easy? Why is this taking so long? This would Be like, super quick. It's all you need to do is X, Y and Z. Like, what's annoying you in your life? What. What has annoyed you? Take note of that. Then I love to look at. Secondly, what is. What is it that when that people said that you did really well, that you tend to dismiss. You tend to like. And dismissing can look a lot of different ways. It's like, really wasn't that big of a deal, or, oh, I had help, it wasn't really me, or, oh, I got lucky, those kinds of things. It was. It was just. It was just five minutes. It was. It was all right. What are the places where people praise you that you yourself tend to dismiss? Or in more of another way of saying this, like, you don't receive that praise. I love to look at those. Look at that as well. And then the third thing is think of three instances, three stories, and three experiences of your life that you're really proud of, be incredibly proud of, and tell someone that story. Tell someone who can be curious about it and listen to and ask yourself. And as you're telling that story, try and uncover what it was that went right for you, what it is that you loved about. About that experience that maybe no one else would have appreciated that. That you knew made all the difference, at least to you. That. No one that. That others might have, like, glossed over or overlooked. I like looking at these three questions in particular, Stacy, because they help uncover, like, our bright spots, the places where we excel and the places where, like, we are actively not embracing something that comes easy to us. And I think that's one of the first places to be able to start out with. To be able to see and start to understand, okay, what is something that comes like. Like, what am I pushing away? What am I not embracing in this moment? And those three questions, looking at it through. Through those lenses, really start to open up an area of exploration and kind of some ahas around, like, oh, wait, what if. What if it was actually true? What if there was something special here? What am I actually doing? If I became aware and I slowed down and created some distinction rather than assuming that it just happens. What if there was a thing that I was doing? And if so, what am I doing? And going through that process will help. Is one of the. One of the ways to start embracing what it is that you're doing. Embracing yourself, embrace and owning more of who you are.

Okay, great. Thank you.

Yeah, no, thank you. I appreciate it. Like I said, everything is valuable. So, like, you asking me these questions you're helping me codify some of my thoughts in a new way that I haven't ever looked at it before. And so I appreciate you a lot.

Yeah.

Do you mind if I bring in one other thing around, around that, another process that I found?

Yeah.

Okay. So I'm also bringing another process here. I talked earlier about, like, crossword moments and like, just like, I think of it as every decision you make, you get, you get a chance to choose. And that helps build, that helps build a lived experience and start getting some data, you start getting some stories. You start being able to like, incorporate things and know, like, okay, actually I've done something like this before. And when I think about the transformation journey, I call it the, the edge transformation journey. Like the framework that I used, really, at the end of the day, it's a framework on how to be, go, be. Don't do. Bring your being up. It's like, but how do I do that? And this framework is actually modified from the learning competency model, which was the models that was brought up in the 70s around how does competency grow within someone? So the original model is around. You might have got this in some way. It talks about someone starts off with unconscious incompetence. They don't know what they don't know. And then, oh, you know, I'll do, I'll describe this. And almost like driving a car before, the first time you ever drive a car, you have no clue how hard it is. You have no idea how many things you have to pay attention to, so on and so forth. You have no, you have no idea. You're just like, just put me behind the wheel and I'll go. So unconscious incompetence. Then you, you get a chance to experience it and you start to realize, oh, you become consciously incompetent. I don't know how to drive this thing. There's a lot more going on than I, that I would have thought. So there's this conscious incompetence. You now are aware that of what you don't know, then you move on to conscious competence. When I spend time thinking about it, if I'm concentrated, I can actually get the result that I'm looking for. Okay, now you're driving the car, your hands on 10 and 2. I have to make sure I'm turning the traffic indicator on, so on and so forth. Okay, I got there safely. And then the stage, the last stage in that model is unconscious competence, which is you don't have to think about it and you just do it. You, you Say, I'm gonna go pick up some milk from the grocery store. You get in your car, and then you become. You zone back in, and you realize you're at the grocery store, and you don't think, I made this turn. I did all this stuff. You just. It just happens unconsciously. There's a fifth level beyond that, which is a level of mastery or leadership, and this is the level of distinction that I was talking to you about earlier. And that fifth level is called conscious unconscious competence. Conscious unconscious competence. And what it boils down to is bringing yourself back to awareness of the thing that you were doing unconsciously once again. Yeah. And that's. That's an incredible, incredible stage. I. I heard it from you, Stacey. What came alive when I said that?

Yeah, no, it's. It's true. It's. You're then becoming aware that you're doing something almost automatically. So it's not even. It almost. It's almost. What else can I do?

Yeah, yeah. You. You actually talked about it a little bit earlier. You said it took you a hundred episodes to come up with the framework work to come up with a formula. That was your words. It took. It took 100 episodes to come up with the formula. You were going through this process, and by the hundredth episode, like. Like the first couple episodes, you might have been like, okay, let's see how this goes. Like, how do I want to go about doing this? Then eventually, you started, like, experimenting with different things. Then probably at a certain point, okay, I got my flow. I kind of know what we're doing. And things were going well. And then one day you came and you looked at her over a period of time. You looked at it and you came back and you said, oh, this is what I'm doing. This is how to help people do the thing. It's just this. That was going from unconscious confidence to conscious unconscious confidence. It's a lot of words. So I want to give space to the original component. But let me ask you, does that align with what you're saying?

Yeah, no, it definitely does. Yeah, it really does.

So what I'll do here is just to make things really simple for people, because all the conscious and the unconscious stuff becomes really complicated to say. I trip over it all the time. I look at this here, and the key here is not to know what stage you're in, but to actually. It is important to know, but it's. What's also important is how do you move from one stage to the next? And to that, I look at these four Letters. E, D, G, E. Edge. One is the E stands for explore. This is about raising your awareness. In this stage here, just. Just learn, journal. Give yourself opportunities to see different things and really just explore without having to know anything at all. This, like, this is going from unconscious incompetence. You didn't know that. You didn't know. To conscious incompetence. Okay, well, to get there, you have to have awareness. You have to grow your awareness. Like, oh, I didn't know this. So then you want to move on to the next stage, which is conscious incompetence to conscious competence. This is actually one, I think, that one of the hardest stages to get to because to. To go through. Because this stage, we use the D there. And in this stage here, this is about being messy. This is about experimenting. You're bad at it still, but you're going on the path to get better at it. So you're going to have to take some risks. There's going to be some things that don't work out. There are going to be some things where it doesn't actually, like, line up. Just know that that's part of the process. And if you try and skip that process, you're not going to be able to actually get to where it is that. That you want to get to. Especially if you're going down the path of being you. You might go down. You might be able to skip that path if you watch other people be them. And if you, like, you want to become someone else, sure you can. You can skip that path because you can just follow those steps. But you won't get you down the path of becoming you.

I wanted to add something to that.

Please.

This is really coming up for me. I interviewed a book. She's a editor. What is she? I interviewed a writer yesterday and she was talking about how she started writing by getting. She went to a comedy show and kind of fell in love with comedy. She decided she wanted to do this comedy stuff. And then through that is when she became a writer. And I asked her how she went from going to this comedy show wanting to actually do comedy. And she said, because I saw the person that was up there fail so many times, they messed up over and over and over again that it gave her the motivation to say that she could do it because she saw them mess up. And so what I realized was with you messing up and with you being going through these different experiences through the DARE component is that you don't even know who you might be inspiring by them seeing you fail so I just. That's what's coming up right now. It's just. I never thought of it in that way of someone else could see you be imperfect, and then that could even motivate them.

I'm so glad you said that. I'm getting goosebumps as you say that there, because that deeply resonates this. Even when you fail, you still win, provided you do it out loud. She's like, oh, that. That person was so bad. I can do better than that person. I love that. I love that. It's the reason. It's part of the reason why I tell you, hey, I'm publishing a book. Yeah. Maybe it'll get done by the end of the year. I'm. I'm very confident that it will. But even if it doesn't and it comes out a month or two later, it's. There's a documented part of conversation where someone in the future might come out and say, I don't know if I could ever write a book. Well, I thought it would be like this. And this is how I messed up. And we totally thought it was going to be easy. And this is where it fell apart. And in just allowing ourselves to be visible, we give other people the permission to be. To go on this journey.

And it's funny, I was talking to my boyfriend about it yesterday, and he was, I wonder what would happen if that person that was terrible knew they created this amaz person's experience just from them being bad. And I was, oh, my gosh. So when I think about it, my mind is blown. So I love that you said the dare component, because that is being. Having permission to be messy. And honestly, that's how this podcast started. It started just being imperfect, and that's what resonated. And then once I realized that, it gave me permission to just be imperfect this whole time. And then just finding my flow as I'm going along.

I can finish off with the other two letters, and I will in a bit, but there's something really important here. Imagine if that person knew what. What they like, the impact of them. I don't think we get that we are having these kinds of impacts on people all the time. And the small conversations we have, the way that we. We look at someone and greet them in the grocery store, or we don't. The fact that we hit launch on something, or the fact that we posted something and we would. We strike people with almost everything that we do. And there's something else that happens when we. When people see someone actually going, I don't know, going for it. In your words, like when people are actually doing the thing, it's like, well, you're, you're going for it, you're making this happen and it changes something in them. And they're looking, they're looking to see is this going to reinforce a story that I have about myself or are you about to break something in me that, that will actually give me the freedom to move forward? I love that you did. You, you caught that there. This person probably has no idea, no idea that they influenced the. So the comedian probably has no idea that they influenced that writer who's then going to go out and influence tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and more of people through that, through that person's writing. It's.

Yeah. And it almost like gives you permission just really fall in love with messing up.

That's like, I think that's it. Like, I'm so glad we're talking about this here because this is part of what I was trying to convey earlier. All 80% of the game, 90% of the game is just showing up. It doesn't. And leaving it up to that other person to get, to get what they need out of it. And that's what I was talking about. The freedom that I feel. Oh, I can do no right and I can do no wrong. Can you imagine if that person had a perfect set? They were incredibly funny and everything they did was spot on and relevant and well timed. We wouldn't have this amazing writer coming up right now. You would have had that conversation and we wouldn't have be in this conversation right now. This, this to me gets to like that element of like, if you can own everything about you, it like you have no idea. Some. My mentor says you have no idea when the most important conversation in the history of the world has taken place. This person's up on stage failing left and right and it inspires someone else to go out and create and inspire other people.

Yeah. So then it almost takes away the fear of messing up. Because if you mess up, what's the worst that's going to happen? Someone in the audience might. And whatever it is they're doing, it doesn't have to be an audience. But looking at what's going on could be getting impacted in a different way.

Yeah. It also, to me, it also throws, it throws it on its head and says, what is the cost of getting it right? Because if they had gotten it right, this person would not have gotten inspired. There's strength. This is it. This is this. I'm Glad you're asking this, because this. This is it. This is part of the game. It's. It's. And giving yourself that permission, knowing that even as you're messing up, that could be the best thing for someone. For someone who's seen you as successful, everything that you've done in life, to see you struggling or to see you going for something and having it all. Not all line up, that might give them more compassion for themselves or the things that they want, or they may be like, oh, I. I know someone that can help you, or whatever it is. Life works for us in. In more compelling ways than I think we give ourselves credit. And so I'm grateful that you slowed down on that. I'm glad that it brought up that memory. This is something I will never forget. So if you don't mind, I'd love to tell this story in the future to people.

Oh, yeah, for sure. I think it's. I think it'd be great. I'll send you her episode when I publish it too. Because she also said with that comedy experience, what it did was it. She failed so many times doing it that she became bulletproof to failure.

Yes. Yes. Oh, I can't wait to listen to this yet. This is. Because to me, it's. It's speaking a truth. It's speaking the truth. I'm actually. Right now, in the time of recording this, I'm taking my. My entire community through a. A thing that we call November. It's November right now, and the entire month, it's all about getting them to dare and get rejections, get. Go for proposals, reshape their relationship to failure, because that is the pathway to success. And I think too many times we. We think that if we're not successful with it right off the bat, we must not be good at it. And it's like, no, you're just new at it. Like, go, like, stay with it. And we'll get. We'll get through that. We'll get through that messiness there.

But is it, like, we're gonna have to. We're gonna do a whole. Nother. You're have to come back on, because that's my whole. I'm living that right now through. I'm doing a do the thing dating dare challenge to get people to go out and do different dares to be able to get themselves out of the comfort zone. But I used rejection therapy. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

Yep.

As a guide. And I'm just really. And the dating thing is just One thing, that's a challenge. I said I'm gonna be doing other challenges like do the thing, public speaking and do this now, now apparently do the thing, starting a podcast, but, but getting people comfortable with that rejection muscle because I think that's key to be able to do success. So anyway, we'll have to, we'll have to have you come back on another time because that's, I mean, a whole episode right there.

Yeah, I would appreciate that. And you know what the fun part about that is? Like now I feel like I'm co creating with you. And so what came in my mind was I'm going to feel even more during November so that when we come back and we have the second podcast conversation, I'll have even better stories to share and even more things that we went for and so on and so forth. So just even you putting that into the space is contributed and co creating something different for me. So I appreciate that. Yeah, I would love to do that. Would you like me to finish the last two?

Yeah, I love it.

All right, so this is a quick recap. It's the edge framework to get us through things that I'll say all four of the words right now, but then I'll explain them. All right, so we have explore, then we dare, then we grow, and then we evolve. Explore, dare, grow, evolve. So explore is all about like raising awareness. Take during this time. You're, you're, you're learning more. You're, you're journaling, you're just taking, you're learning, you're just in the space of observing and, and that's enough. You might think, I have to go get something done. It's like, nope, take the time to just see how, how do you be, how do you behave? What, what, what, what, what's showing up? The next stage then is dare. Now this is the stage to go and experiment to be messy. Know that when you, that the right way to DARE is to fail. If you're not failing, then you're not daring. Put that in, to put that in there. You get points for failing. You get points for the experiments that you try during the DARE phase. And just you, this is a great time to just put in as much as you can and try a bunch of different things so that you can then get to the grow phase. The grow phase is all about practicing and being intentional. So during the dare phase, you tried a lot of different things. Some things worked really well for you, some things didn't. Some things worked well in terms of the end result. But oh my gosh, you hated the process to get there. Fine. Now you get to choose with growing the things that work for you. Okay. I look at return on investment, Stacy, I'm really big on that. What are the things that took the least amount of investment from you that got you the highest result? It's why I asked those three questions earlier about what do people say you're like, you dismissed because it was so easy for you. That's. Those are like the high ROI activities. And during the growth phase, you want to. Now you want to be in the practice, you want to do it again, you want to do it more intentionally. You're still experimenting here. You're still learning different things, but you're getting it to the point where it can become like just. You can just hit record and you can just jump in. You can just. It's just, it's just a part of you. And that. That will take you all the way to unconscious competence. So then the last stage here is to get to that conscious unconscious competence that. So this is now when we go and we evolve. The stage of evolve is all about distinctions. Being able to find nuance, being able to, to. I like to look at as a stage where you can go back and teach someone else what it is that is now you're so well practiced on. This is where you, this is where you might become the coach. This is where you might come out and start pulling out what's the process that I use for these things. But you're really taking the time to see for yourself what is it that I. That worked for me. And really taking some time to distinguish that and then choose to evolve it in some way, shape or form, whether it's evolving it for you or helping someone else evolve, because you are leading them through a process where they can go and explore and dare and grow and so forth. And Stacy, this is what I found like, I found like these, this path here which has taken us all the way through, from unconscious incompetence all the way to conscious, unconscious competence, brought together through this edge framework of explore, dare, grow and evolve. Explore, dare, grow and evolve. I have found that that's the only framework I need to consistently, over and over and over and over again, find out more about myself, embrace more about myself, and leverage that out further into the world.

That is so good. I'm so excited.

And what excites you about it about this?

Oh, it's just. I love having. I love frameworks. I love a path that you could follow over and over again. And knowing what works for you and then being able to follow that with any new thing you want to do.

I'm big on that as well. So that, yeah, it was fun discovering this, where I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, this is. This is exactly it. This is. Am I willing to be messy right now? Oh, I'm in the messy stage. I just gotta let it happen. Or, okay, I know what I'm up to. I gotta practice. And I can practice once a year or I can schedule a whole bunch of these things and do as much practice as I can so that this becomes easy. I loved how we started out this conversation. Like, let's just hit record. I'm like, oh, she's so well practiced. Like, she got this.

Boom, let's get into it. I know, like, and it's like. It's like. It was so comforting to me because, oh, she totally got this. So wherever the conversation goes, I know that she's either she's already prepared or she's resourceful enough to take us wherever it needs to go. So just. Just so you know, like, it may. It was really helpful for me. I. Instant trust on my end came with the way that we started, and it was just like, that's so cool.

I love hearing that. Yeah. I would love to know, and I know the listeners would love to know, what would be your number one piece of. Of advice for people on doing the thing?

Yeah, sorry. There's a lot of different. There's a lot of different things that are flowing through. I guess the thing that's. That's coming up more than anything else. Just believe in yourself. Trust yourself. Know that you can do no wrong. It's a mindset thing. And I think, like, to believe in yourself and trust yourself is. It goes back to what we were just talking about, where it's. Things aren't gonna work out exactly as. As you plan. That's a benefit that's beneficial too. Write it that you choose to see it as a benefit. There are a number of things that I've done that have failed. Like, I went through three decades of my life not understanding and accepting who I was. I was going out in the world telling people to be more you under the name of a website of Nemo Ashang. That's not even my name. And yet through that, I've been able to leverage that into stories, into helping other people's and so on and so forth. So I think. I think the biggest thing for me is just trust. Believe in yourself and know that even when you fail you're winning. I really do think that that is. That feels. That feels really core. Yeah. This. Because there's something that comes up around, like, the dark side of being authentic. It's not a game of just, oh, just be you. And if you be you, everything's gonna work out. Like, that's not how I found the game to be. From anyone who's actually really gone through it. It is you is one of the most confronting things in the world, to choose to be yourself, because they're on this planet of almost 8 billion people. There's only one of you. There's only one. And it is one of the most. It could be one of the most scary and one of the most liberating things at the same time. So my. My thing, my advice, just, like, just believe in yourself and trust that, like, even when you fail, you win, provided that you choose to leverage that failure in some way, shape or form, and grow from it. That. That's what's. That's what's alive in me right now. Stacy. I may say something different other day, but that's what's alive right now.

Yeah. It's so good. It's funny, too, because I was gonna ask you a question before that, and I decided not to, but I was gonna ask you what your favorite mindset trick was.

And then I. I don't know. Something got me not to ask that, and so it's interesting that I. It basically combined both questions into one, so I love it.

Yeah. Yeah. I. I think I feel like my thing around that would be around building your nervous system to handle discomfort and pain. Like, that's. Has been one of the single biggest changes for me, because I recognize, like I said, even my smile was to help people feel safe around me. And I've come to recognize that when my nervous system cannot handle something that I would like to do or I think I would like to do, I almost don't even give myself the chance to think about it. I don't even give myself a chance to even consider it as an option. And so I'm someone who's. I'm odd like this, and I like it, but I'm someone who runs into places, runs into rooms where I can be triggered. And if I'm not triggered, I question why I'm in the room. I don't mean triggered in terms of, like, my. My trauma per se, but triggered in the sense of, oh, there's something about this person that rubs me the wrong way, or, wow, this. Like, I've been challenged in A way that intimidates me. If I'm not feeling those kinds of feelings, I like, I get bored. I feel like I'm in the wrong room. So.

So cool. That's great. I mean, it gets you to look at everything differently when you feel like that.

Yeah, I think so. It changes things, and I think it also allows more. More space for, again, I say a world of difference. Right. And it's. Right now a lot of us are avoiding confrontation. And in my mind, I'm. What was the point of being here if I enter a room one way and I leave the exact same way? I'm like, that was a waste of time. I don't know how else to describe it, but even in this conversation, I've gotten so much from just being in space with you, Stacy, that I have grown. You've confronted me with myself, with parts of my story that I didn't know, with different ways of expressing things in the frameworks and so on and so forth. That I really have gained a lot from being in this space with you. And that's. That's something special for me. That's. That's. That's what I look for.

Thank you. Yeah, I feel the same way. I'm feeling very energetic right now, and things are spurting.

Excitement.

Yeah. My mind is like, welcome to my world. I was with a group of people the other day, and they're like, I'm feeling sleepy. People don't. That doesn't last when they're around me. I don't need to energize you, but you. You're gonna. You're gonna wake up.

I love that.

Yeah.

Well, please share where people can learn about you and the things that you're up to.

Yeah. So you can find me on all the. The social platforms at Niyama Ashang. That's N double I a M a h a S h o N G. I would prefer to. To like, actually be in conversation with you. I love. I love spending time being in service. I love helping people with real issues as opposed to just sharing things out with them. Come into my coming in at a wonderful time because I can spend time with you. Actually, what I would say is I am creating a book right here. We're publishing a book by the end of this year. And there's a lot of things that we're doing in the book that is that. That you can be a part of if you'd like to. You can go to my website, which is niama.com n/I a M a H. You can go to niyamah.com WOD it stands for World of Difference. And we have a number of different ways for you to get involved and to, to share and make your impact and share your contribution and then bring your difference to, to what it is that we're creating here. All the way from participating in a live workshop or coaching session with me where, where we're doing, we're actually creating the content for the book in real time or to sharing something on social. There's a lot of different room there. I think that right now, Stacy, that's the, that's the best way for people to, to continue the journey with me. And I think, I think like, what I love to do is like, it's not about me. Good. I'm really good. How can I use everything that I do to raise someone else up, help shine a light on what makes them special and make sure that the world knows it. Because there's just a lot of greatness in this world and, and that's how we're going to move forward. So I would say if there's anything you can do, go to niyama.com wod which is world of Difference. And if you listen to this after the start of the year and you think, oh, I might have missed that opportunity, we'll make sure that redirects it to the next thing that you can come and join us in because we're, we're co creating a world of difference. Difference. And I'd love for you to be a part of it.

Amazing. Thank you so much for doing this with me. I, I just, this has been absolutely incredible.

Thank you. Stacy, thank you so much for the invitation. And again, like, I, I really want to acknowledge you for your curiosity, the energy that you bring into the space. You're clearly great at this and I'm so happy that you are spending your time helping people do the thing. It is, we need it. And I'm so glad that you stepped up to, to keep leading here. Thank you.

So cool.

Thanks for listening to the do the Thing podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. But even more, we hope you'll be inspired to do the thing. Do you have a burning question on doing the Thing that you'd like answered? How about an inspiring do the Thing story of your own that you'd like to share? We'd love to hear all about it. Just leave us a voice message at do the thing.callcast co or email us at hello do the Thing podcast dot com.