From Stage Fright to Spotlight: Dr. Gary Wohlman on Embodied Speaking and Radical Expression

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. Well, you guys, I'm excited. I got to meet my next guest, actually, inside the do the Thing community. He was initially referred to me from Sue Anderson, who has the group Entrepreneurs Gone Wild. She has this amazing retreat center where she helps entrepreneurs reset while they're busy building businesses. And when she connected me to him, there's something about him that just opened up the space of just fun and expansiveness. And then he came into the community. I got to see him on some of the. As you guys know, we do these fun My People parties that we've had and that we recently touched base again through Corey Poirier Speakers Network, where I was one of the people that was kind of curating speaking opportunities. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I've been wanting you on my podcast. Let's get it together. And so here we are, we are getting him on the podcast, and I'm so excited to introduce him to you because he helps speakers in a way that gets them to share their message powerfully, but also from the deepest part of who they are. And I can't wait to tap more into that and be able to really see what he's doing in the world and who he's helping. So I am introducing Dr. Gary to the show. Hey, Dr. Gary.

Hey, Stacy. Oh, my goodness, what timing we have. Hey.

And just so you guys know, it's so funny. He is so good with trying to help support this. It's like three in the morning at his time. Right now we have a massive time zone crunch. And so he is doing the thing in this moment, which is really exciting.

It's all about doing the thing, Stacy, is it not? It is.

Everything comes back to that. Well, I'd love to start off and just hear your amazing story. Please share with us who you are, what you're doing. What happened to get you to this point right now?

In one of my presentation coaching principles, it's always the first time. I had been asked this before, and I was going to ask you a question. The question being, please answer as though it's the first time. So I'm going to answer as though it's the first time in the shortest, simplest, strongest, specific statement. That's my 5s principle. You see what I'm doing? I'm using the body to make pictures.

And I'm playing with my sounds to convey a playful, inspiring, transformational messaging. And you notice every syllable is consciously pronounced so that the verbal, vocal, visual elements are in concert. How did this happen? Oh my goodness. I was sent to the best camps and schools when I grew up in New York. I won this award in my senior year Horace Mann private school in New York City the small eclectic hundred boys and I won the award for the student that graduated with the greatest academic and athletic. I was a champion springer diver, gymnast and track star combine academics and athletics and when I stood up on stage I remember now I was terrified. I accepted this award and I can remember to this day how shaking I was how it came that I now am a speaking coach. The presentation doctor always wanted to be a doctor, didn't get to medical school. Was creating a multisensory way of utilizing this body wisdom.

And love for creativity to connect with other souls. So it's been a 50 55. I'll be 74 in a couple of month year process developing and refining this tool that breaks free people's holding back patterns often by repeating them and adding a new self talk that is multisensorized. You see what I'm doing with my gestures. I'm teaching, I'm training you the audience to follow both in past, present, future and in choreograph the different points with specific gestures showing the telling. So that's a short long version answer of how did I get to here where I am now from what happened to get me here? I never said it that way before.

Then for those of you listening to this on the podcast, definitely check out the YouTube right now because the way that yeah he's moving his hands is really powerful and it's great. It's especially nowadays because people have attention of gnats. We're so distracted as a society and I feel like there's something kind of mesmerizing also about the way that you're doing it that helps us actually pay attention which is really, really good too.

Well, it's interesting you saying that because that mesmerizing that you're talking about.

Is a conscious spell. I'm spelling.

With my body and voice to engage a full bodied intu me see into uc into. We see connection that allows the words to whisper, wander waken through this landscape of the body. This is our chief instrument of communication. So yes, it's about putting down the phones. Yes, we're talking through computers yet the more multisensory the better. That's my way of seeing life. And then it feels real. If we can include more senses, any new piece of information can be encoded instantly in the cellular memory. That's my approach doing it, as wild and fun and ridiculously as possible, is another very important tool. So people are having fun crying while they're laughing and shifting their patterns. I remember once I was working with a man and he admitted how utterly terrified he was in being seen, being rejected. I'm terrified of being seen, I'm terrified of being heard. And I had him go like a chicken goblin, the arms around the room. And when he turned it into a Monty Python event, he and the whole audience broke into uproarious laughter. And he didn't have to return to the pattern. He ridiculized it, which is a very conscious tool as well.

So tell us more about. We'll start with where you're speaking it out because I know whenever I see you, you're always speaking somewhere. I think it was. Was it Canada? The last time I saw you, you were speaking somewhere.

I was speaking in Canada recently at a Urban Municipal Association 120th conference in Saskatchewan. I was asked to present as I offered this Monty Python approach to make ridiculous and to have people stand on stage to deal with how to turn. I'm moving through time here. Watch what I'm doing with the screen. Conflict in your community to conscious conversation and how instead of being a PowerPoint presenter, because I am so physical, I brought the people up on stage to present, represent, model the verbal, vocal, visual elements of sexual harassment, personal harassment, discriminative harassment, and different voice tones and words that would hold a new stand of command in their land. So it was very interactive and that was fun. That was Canada. Recently, I've also just come back from Vietnam and Cambodia where I was coaching coaches. I was working with a five star wellness retreat resort in Cambodia with the executive management team. And again, turning their fears, their worst fears, into ridiculosity, into scenarios where one person could be the worst guest. How do we have a chain to go from hello to dissolving the situation? And so they had so much fun. When you do it with fun.

People, I disagree. That you learn things only from fear. No, no. I think that's part of the process. But then when you. Once you get the new self talk. I'm playful, I'm inspiring, I'm transformational. Whatever your three key words in gestures would be, then the secret is to multisensorize it. And then it lasts. It becomes indelible, permanent, sustainable, and it affects all of your thinking, speaking actions and interactions. So it's a tool. It's a very consciously created moment to moment tool.

For one's thoughts, words and actions to re Define to refine this instrument. That that's, to me, the greatest gift in the world is to be able to do that with these bodies.

You mentioned in the beginning that you started off really, I don't know if you were. Used the word quiet or shy, but not outspoken, not being able to do what you're doing now. How did you make that shift?

When I moved to San Francisco in 1972, I just graduated from Johns Hopkins University, pre med, didn't get a medical school. And I had made the leap at that point to San Francisco, where I was exploring a whole new way of being then basically being supported for being an intellect, which was what my earlier upbringing was about. And so that leap, that shift that took place, allowed me to explore a very different way of being a doctor and very different way of honoring the caring and the creativity and even the chaos that I was managing through years of going to this very fine private school. I had learned a lot of Shakespeare, a lot of iambic pentameter.

That rhythm. And so years later, when I came out as a court Chester in Hawaii, I utilized this tool with the presentation coaching to take people on this again, multisensory rhyming dive. Like that thing I said earlier. The person said, I'm utterly terrified of being seen. And the tears were dripping and the audience was rejoicing because he was honoring his darkest as his deepest, rather than being afraid of that, to face that, to heal that by practicing sharing. My transformational body therapy in my early 20s in San Francisco, which was so unheard of at the time. Massage is a dance. I got into all this 55 years ago. I had to talk about it.

Yeah.

And that's what made it comfortable. By joining Toastmaster groups, leading Toastmaster groups with the art of nonverbal speech evaluation. I realized, well, now I have hearing aids, you know, I have a hearing problem now. At an early age, I. I realized that I have to be able to see what a person's saying. And that made the biggest difference, to use the body. At first it was unheard of, and now it's everyday word. We're all finding that trauma is somatic and it's in the body. You were going to ask me a question, perhaps at one stage tonight I had a feeling about how do you make that shift with people? It is by going back into the trauma. It is by exaggerating the trauma or finding a way through a skid to do the opposite, exaggerate opposite a few different times. And by that time, a person just breaks free. It's a very simple tool that works very sustainably, very powerfully. And often a person can't go back to the old pattern because now the awareness is expanded. They can't go back to being tiny, shy, quiet. I couldn't either. Once I realize we're all bound within these landscapes. Our sages, our mages are stuck within these cages. And it is our choice to find new pages and new stages. If you get my outrageous.

Yeah, I feel like I have to show my comfort circles now because you're getting there. So, yeah, we're kind of talking about the non verbal. That's the horse, right?

Yeah. It's holding still for a second, all this stuff. So we can see it. What are we seeing there?

So this is a comfort circle journey of an individual and how they actually transform personally through whatever they've gone through. So the horse is like the non verbal side of who we are. Right. And then you talked about talking about it, which was like, by finding your voice, right. In that non verbal thing that you're going through now, you're talking about it. So you're able to find your voice in whatever that was that you went through. Right. So then you're able to share it. Right. That's when you started joining the Toastmasters. And I see mashing. Yep. Isn't that cool? And then monetizing it. And then movement and then global reach. But at each level we're finding our voice because, oh, can I charge? I don't know, can I charge this much? At each level we're kind of tapping into that. But anyway, I just thought I'd share that.

No, that's very powerful because in a couple of different ways, with your energy and my energy here combined, I'm feeling. I'm the alchemist and you're the one that brings it to the activists, bring it to life in the outer, from the inner. It's very interesting.

Yeah. Okay, so talk to us about. Because now you're helping people. Now you're a speaker mentor, right? Where you're helping people basically kind of come into their own self with being able to use their body, with their words and really being able to tap into that. I'd love to hear more about that and what you're noticing that you're really helping people with.

That's a great question there, Stacy, as you say it. And my mind echoes, recalling hundreds of incidences as speaker, mentor, as the presentation doctor. I noticed one thing.

I noticed that we are all, in our own particular color and flavor and version, holding on to at least one story about keeping ourselves small, holding ourselves back, pulling in our magnificence, being afraid to be seen. It's all the same in our culture. We've all been brainwashed to have a low identity and to serve the outer authority as a way of keeping the system going. It's a very dysfunctional system and yet we've all participated in our own way. So for me to unravel, I woke up one morning from a dream two years ago. Fresh stories, new glories. We dance and sing. Yes, we are remembering. Yes, we are awakening. I woke up with those words. And my sense is the one thing holding us all back is the holding back story. That's serving some ancestor who wanted to push you down or they were held back. It's not, not even conscious. Often in the multi generational history of wounding that happens traumatically over multi generations. And yet the way to deal with it, here's one simple tool that works so well. Imagine yourself carrying that pain of not being enough, or not being seen or being whatever it is, whatever your particular flavor is. Flick out your hands for a moment. Whoever's listening, watching. Unless you're driving a car, hands on the wheel, that's a shaking. If you're not, hold, strive for it. That's good. So we're moving the energy, also your feet, down through, all the way through the body. And now your right hand, palm up, you're holding an open chalice, the left hand dipping into the right hand, saying these same exact words after me. I'm going to help get you started. You can pick it up on your own with your own personalized wording. Say these words after me. I take this pain.

I take this pain and I wad it up.

And I wad it up, wad it.

Up into an ugly ball. This pain of being afraid to be seen. I'm not safe to be here. Whatever the story, I take this pain. And this is the important part. Everybody do things with me. I send it.

Back to the source with your full body, if you can.

Yeah.

I send it back to where it came.

I reclaim fulfillment in this life.

Renewed again. Today for me is a new day. And then the most important part, putting your hands against your hips as you say these words with me. Hip, hip, hooray. Hip, hip, hooray. She says with full enthusiasm. Exactly. So that leads to the next point, which is my new self talk is so I have people go through that sequence of turning the drama, the trauma into a drama so it becomes ritualized out by having it be Fully expressed. So to me, at one pulling back mechanism, there's many ways of doing it, but that's one really simple tool. Send it back to where it came, I now reclaim. And then to re. Multisensorize that new story, that new subtle.

Yeah, I like it. I'm bringing it out again because it's almost like where we're in horse mode. We're still basically potentially still struggling, right, with what we're going through. And so as we then talk about it, we're sort of healing through the process, right? And then when we start sharing it, then we have to start talking about it to other people because we realized as we start talking about it, we're actually helping others through our story. And so that's where you are. You're in the universal find your voice section. Because at each level that you're sharing your story, whether you're making money from it, you're creating a movement from it, you're global reaching it, you're healing these old wounds because you're getting to know the pain in a different way. Because as you hear other people, you're helping.

That's true.

Yeah.

What you're saying, it's so true. There's a sacred responsibility I feel anyone has who comes up with an awareness that could improve a relationship or situation. It's not just that I have it to share or I have to share it. I have it to share. And that it's a sacred responsibility to heal, to balance, to create more vitality or aliveness in the situation. What does the situation need rather than what do I think it needs? That's one big step there. You do that. I noticed, Stacey, with a number of the ways that you come across very eloquently in a way that also brings out this great sense of sharing it with more people. So much underneath your telling being compelling. And to me, this is the answer. To give people such a feeling of joy even in their chaos or fear or depression. So what? We're out of another version of it. So it's time to embrace it. You see, I wear all these colors. I'm doing it consciously to attend to all of the emotions. The full with that moving solar light and back with the full range of our emotions. It's not about staying up here and holding a certain. It's about allowing the full gamut. So when I teach people about using the online space, I'm often suggesting past, present, future to move in that specific direction, from right to left. For a speaker that connects to your left to right to Talk about key stories and moments of vulnerability where there was a breakdown and then a breakthrough. These are the ones that people remember far more than those points. And yet the system that's been created. Go like this with me for a moment, making this triangle with your fingers touching. And I call this the P formula. P with the fingers touching, the letter P for points, the points we make, E for the examples we give and A for the application. Any speaker who just delivers points and even interesting stories, examples often does not connect with the audience. P, E, A, the P, E, A, the P formula. That application, the relationship for me is what makes the whole thing come alive. There was a woman I was working with once at the Peabody Conservatory of Music in Baltimore, Maryland, and she was a singer who had an attitude about the audience. The audience doesn't like me. The drummer's out of sync. The piano player has no idea how to be able to be on my own rhythm. I said, what would happen if you change that before they accompany you in this next practice session we're doing in front of this audience? She said, okay, okay. The audience loves me. The even more interested in hearing what I have to sing than I am nervous to share it. Very good. Okay. The drummer plays in same rhythm. Excellent. And the pianist totally in tune with me. What happened? The power of intention. How swiftly shifts can happen.

Wow. I understand it now. I feel like you're helping people express their emotions, which is then tapping into the pain of what happened, which is what they're even getting to share it. And so that's why at each level you're tapping it in and then you're bringing in the fun. So it actually almost heals it even better in a way because, yeah, it's.

Very keen way of observing that. That's right, Stacy. There was a man from New York City who I was coaching in a what was called One Dance Tribe, a multi somatic specialist event that's grown from Five Rhythms dance practice in Maui, in Hawaii, where I used to live. And he at the break said that he gets nervous and he forgets what he has to say sometimes. Who wouldn't prefer he speaks? So I started the afternoon session saying to the class that this man here has a pattern. Who else can relate? Of course everybody can. And what actually was it? Now he's having all these people from all over the world looking at him and he began to tear. And he said, I'm afraid because I grew up in New York City, I was always attacked and bullied. When I'm standing in front of People, even when I'm teaching my classes, I feel like you're gonna attack me. I'm acting, but I'm not acting. I'm tuning into how he was authentically being in that moment. And one person after another came up to him and said that vulnerability is strength on the one hand, your courage to share the depth of your feelings. You're the kind of teacher that I would go to all corners of the world to work with because I would take directions from you. I trust you can go deep and you can take us just as deeply.

Well, I'd love to hear what is your number one piece of advice for people on doing the thing?

My one piece of advice about doing the thing, no matter what you're thinking, saying or doing.

Is to be fully alive in your own story. To be fully alive in your own story.

Alive from the inside. Right? And then you're able to speak it in a way that there's no fear or no pain. You're able to work through it all, through healing. Basically.

Once the relationship is intact, I am this, I am safe, I am play. But whatever that is. And the gestures match, then the words flow through with such wisdom, warmth and wonder without wondering what to say. It's about getting into the state, the body into the state, and then the words. And the wonderful reception follows. But first by making oneself receptive.

Embodiment. Yeah. Well, is there anything I didn't ask you that you wished I did?

That's a question I always ask people. I love it. I'll ask myself the question out loud. Is there anything that you didn't ask me that you wished I did? You're going to let people know how to reach me anyway so we don't have to do that here. That's happy to offer two people support beyond this. I have this also on my YouTube channel and I have a way of being able to contact your challenges about where can you break through to this authenticity and full bodied presence? So we'll include the link that will give you a complimentary 20 minutes, 30 minutes to guide you there. I guess the question, if I were to ask a question that you didn't ask me that you could ask, the question that just came up is ask her to notice these words. What are you doing right now, Gary? And so what I was just doing is a tool that I use with presentation coaching when people don't know what to say. And I had them say the first part of a sentence and then whatever follows is the answer to that question. So I'm doing that in front of you right now by making myself quite vulnerable and answering the question as though I do it, guiding someone else to places that have never been before. So no, there's nothing you didn't ask me I feel was left out. I appreciate our being on the same outrageous page. That's what attracted me to the first place with you, while also having such a different approach to it. I'm the alchemist, you're the amplifier.

Thank you so much for coming on. This was so much fun. Really, it's exciting. I was able to explore more the Comfort Circle framework that I have, so that was really powerful too. So thank you for the listeners. Do the thing. Don't wait for opportunity. Create it. And hey guys, have you checked out my Facebook group yet? Go to do the Thing collaboration. Com and I am doing my most favorite thing ever that is brand new and it is called a billion dollar impact marketplace where I'm giving entrepreneurs the opportunity to sell their offers in a live charity auction virtually and then potentially in the future in person. And half the money goes to charity, the other half goes to the entrepreneur. So definitely check that out as well. Bye everyone.