Julie Roland Says Ditch the Doubt: Build Your Boldest Life Without Waiting for Permission

Hello. For everyone that is going to be watching this either live or on the replay. Wait until you see and meet my friend Julie. So in August, did a TEDx talk, met Julie. She did her talk. My talk's on the power of community to help you achieve your goals. Her talk is on how the power of public arts help you build community. And just when you meet someone that has that level of alignment in terms of the stuff that she's actively doing with people and groups and being able to gather people in the way that you do. And I love that you said this in your talk where it's scrappy gathering. You don't need the whole show that everyone thinks you have to have all this craziness, but you actually can focus on connection. And so anyway, that's where I feel like it's so cool and really aligned. So anyway, welcome to the community.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah. Please share with people, tell us about you because you have so many things going on.

Okay. I always feel a little bit awkward giving a personal introduction, but my name is Julie Rowland. My day job is that I'm active duty in the military. I serve in the Navy. I'm a lieutenant, and by trade I'm an aviator. I fly helicopters for the Navy and I've deployed around the world doing that. That's been my career since I graduated college. I did ROTC in college, so I've really been in the Navy for 14 years. I've been an officer for 10 years. So that's the backdrop. But then in my free time, I just finished law school. I just graduated law school, got my JD and as of today, I've had my first day of classes at Columbia remotely. But I'm getting an LLM, which is a Master's of laws. So I'm doing that in my free time. I also, in 2019, started a backyard show, which is what I really gave my TED Talk about. But I started a backyard show that featured magic, music, comedy, everything else. It was called Just Trying to make Friends. The point was to promote the arts and build community. And since starting in the backyard in 2019, it has become a 501c3 nonprofit. We've done over 50 shows, entertained thousands of San Diegans, featured hundreds of local artists. So I did that in my free time and then just like throw a couple other things in there. I produce that show, I run the nonprofit, and I host an emcee, but I'm also a magician. So I sprinkle some magic tricks in there. But then I'm The San Diego chapter director for the Truman National Security Project. I serve on the Mission Bay Park Committee. I'm in the League of Women Voters. I'm in the Rotary Club in San Diego. I'm in the Women's foundation and a handful of other clubs and things like that as well. But basically, I say, you know, I'm very busy, but I am trying to do the most good on the biggest scale I can. I want to make myself the most useful to help people. And sometimes it means I don't have a lot of free time.

It's so cool, because when someone hears everything that you're doing right, they can't even. A lot of times, can't even imagine it. But you probably get that reaction a lot, right, where you're like, well, I'm.

Not often introducing myself and just slamming them with all of it. But what I'll say is, someone will meet me in one realm, and then they'll find out about one of the other things I'm up to. And whenever one of them is revealed, there's always kind of like, wait, what? I mean, in the art space, if I'm doing magic, if someone meets me as a magician, then when they find out that maybe I'm in law school, they're like, wow, okay. They believe it. When they hear that I fly helicopters for the Navy, then they don't believe that. They think that's a joke. If I'm in the art space, it just. It doesn't compute. And so sometimes people have to be like, no, really, look, here's a. Here's a picture of her with the helicopter. That's real. So, yeah, I do get kind of some shocked responses sometimes. The flip side is, in the military, at first, no one can believe I'm running this backyard arts show. It's such a hippie thing. So sometimes they are incredulous. But eventually, once he gets to know me, I think they are able to kind of piece together the puzzle.

Candy just said, what doesn't she do? A Doesn't. Where does she find the time? So that's actually. I love that question, because I'm curious how you feel about this, because you're a living example of do the thing right, where you're just, like.

Doing it.

But I feel like my other thing is do the thing, but it's also finding your own voice while you're doing the thing, which then almost activates you. Like you said, you want to do the most amount of good that you could do. So it's like activating you from the inside. So it doesn't even feel like you're doing the thing because you're. I mean, it feels like it, but it's not in a way of exhaustion, it's in a way of love.

Yes. So actually I, I think I left out a piece. I say I want to do the most good on the biggest scale possible and I want to be the most useful. The missing link in between there is I want to do the most good on the biggest scale possible while maximizing myself and optimizing myself. And that's how I can be the most useful. And the way to do that is like, I mean, I believe we all want to do good. We all want to be good people and contribute to our communities and everything like that. The trick is finding your way to give to the community that comes naturally and energizes you. Because if it does, then you have more to give. Right. We all could work in the soup kitchen, but if that's not flexing all of the muscles you have to contribute, then it might be draining. And, you know, it's like you could maybe do something that helps more people. Maybe you should be working on policy to feed the hungry. You know, there's. So it's a matter of where are you best served. Maybe you are so good at one to one interactions and something like that just fills your cup. And so then great, that's, that's the way. But I say the military is often described as like that, service to country. If you want to serve your country, you join the military. They've kind of claimed that tagline. But you can serve your country in a million different ways. I think if you're a good neighbor, a good friend, a good parent, all of those are service to a country, you know, to whatever way. I think I'm, I'm. I know that you are an asset to our community, Stacey. And I'm sure everybody who's involved in your environment, that's the idea. When you find your thing and you're doing the thing and you're passionate about it, then you just have more to give to that, but also to everything else. So I have friends that say Julie has a unique relationship with time because I do seem to find it in the couch cushions. But I think it's that I really try to find a way to make anything I'm doing feeling like my own. And I seek, I say I have difficulty saying no, but I make sure to say yes to things that I know I can bring myself to. When I say no, it's because I know I don't maybe there, it's an offer. And I'm like, I want to help, but I know that whatever I'm being asked to do doesn't come naturally. You know, I'm not that good at it or it takes a lot out of me to do that kind of work. And I'm like, you actually want better? It seems like I'm very capable. I wouldn't be good in that role. And it would take a lot out of me. That's when I found myself saying no. But anyway, it's knowing yourself and then being selective. And if you are selective about those things that really do fuel you, then you can actually, you can create much more space for more of them.

And I imagine you don't spend much time in your head. So a lot of people might spend time overthinking and overanalyzing and perfecting, and you're just more in the doing. So it gives you more time.

I will say I recently received feedback from someone who professionally is a psychic medium. They get paid to be a psychic medium. And she was talking to me and she was like, you got strong intuition. You really go off intuition, don't you? And I was like, cool. I think so, maybe. But I think I do trust my gut is. I mean, that's probably just another way to say that I'm, you know, I feel good in what I'm doing. And so I think there's space between overthinking and then just like doing so much that you don't have time to think. There's a space in between to check in with yourself. But it's kind of, it's just a really quick check in the box of, yeah, I'm, I'm happy, I'm feeling good. This feels good. This feels right. Okay, cool. Now I get to proceed. And it's not second guessing. The overthinking comes from. If you're not trusting your intuition, probably you're, you're there and you're either thinking, oh, maybe I don't want to do this, but then you're talking yourself. Overthinking comes in the form of talking yourself out of quitting because you're like, well, I don't want to be a quitter, so maybe I should do this, or the alternative is you think you should be doing something, but you're overthinking because you're like, but I have too much going on. That sounds really fun, but too much going on. Whatever. If you just trusted yourself and you, if it felt right to do it, then you'll figure it out. And if it doesn't feel right to do it, then don't do it. And that's the only thing that should matter. So I think I just, I listen to me very briefly and then that's enough. And then I trust.

And then it sounds like you really flex the courage muscle so you have confidence in what you're doing. Because I think that's where another person can live. Because I think that's where the disconnect is when people meet people like you that are doing all these things right. Because a lot of times they're spending the time thinking about it or doubting themselves about it. Whereas your implementation to action is faster. And I think this is important because I think when people understand, the more that you're able to move out of that insecurity or the overthinking, you're able to do more, be more, because you're not spending as much time in that other place.

Yes. Okay, so this is a great point. First of all, this is a muscle and you can practice it. The more repetitions you get pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, the more comfortable and confident you get in any environment like that. But. But I'm gonna get specific, which is that I do this with my show. So with the just trying to make friends show. Our mission, promote the arts, build community. But I have these secondary missions, and one of them is I try to blur the line between audience and performer. And one way I do that is that when I curate the show when I'm producing it, I have some acts that are touring the country, they've got records recorded or they're famous standup comedians. And then I have other people, it's like it might as well be their first time on an open mic night. They've never performed stand up comedy before or whatever. And I make sure that there's a spectrum that you have talents of all of that. And I'm kind of that final piece where sometimes if I feel like it's a little too professional of a show, then I might do something while I'm hosting that I've never done before. I might juggle on stage, where I'm not really a juggler yet, or I'm not really a singer. I can barely play guitar. I can play four records. I might write a song and play a bad song on stage. But it's adorable, it's endearing in that I'm trying. I got a couple rhymes in there. It's funny when you do that it makes it so anybody in the audience can think, wait a minute. I could do that. My hope is someone who's been playing guitar for 10 years, but they've never played for an audience. They go, gosh, I've been playing in my bedroom for 10 years. I'm a better guitar player than Julie is. Maybe I could do that. Or whatever the case may be, they've been writing poetry. It doesn't have to be the same art. They just are thinking, okay, she's just a person. And she's up there trying it. And she's, you know, maybe I try. I say, it's kind of like being the first person at the pool party to get in the pool. You're just showing everybody that it's okay, that it's safe, and that I can make the fool out of myself and still be held by the audience. And that I'm. Okay. I'm kind of failing. But that. That is not a failure, because it's in the trying. And so, yeah, actually, one of my law professors told me the other day, she was like, you might be the most uninhibited person I've ever met. And I'll say, maybe I am. But I also. I practice being uninhibited. I practice putting myself out there. Both for me to work that muscle, but also, it is important to me to show other people, hey, it's safe. Come on out. I'm out here on the limb. You can come out here, too.

You know, it's so huge what you're saying. I didn't realize we had this in common, too. Cause I have a whole comedy routine on sucking. And so I'll lay down how good it is to suck. Cause most people think if they're used to being perfect, it's actually kind of exhausting. Cause then you think you have to be good, but it actually is okay to not be good.

I mean, even with magic, I say I'm everyone's favorite mediocre magician. You know, it's like your mom's favorite mediocre magician or whatever, you know? But I'll make a lot of jokes like that. And in a way, you're lowering the bar and you're lowering expectations, which makes it easier to jump over them. But you're doing it for yourself, too. You're just. You're giving yourself permission to fall wherever you fall. You can do amazing up there and how great. But also, if you don't, that's okay because you've reframed the failure. It's not A failure anymore, no matter what. There's a win in trying. And then it's just. The rest is just bonus. Yeah.

I learned this one of my episodes, my podcast episodes. I interviewed an author, and she was talking about how she got into writing, and it came from going to someone's standup comedy performance that, as she said, was terrible. He wasn't good. But then when she saw him perform badly, she was like, wait, that looks like it could be something I might want to do. And so then she signed up for comedy, and that was when she learned writing, because with comedy, you have to really write and stuff. And that's how. And ever since then, it was like, what did she say? Failure made me bulletproof? When she learned how to experience failure.

Yeah. If you can make a fool of yourself and know how to bounce back, if you've practiced bouncing back from making a fool of yourself, then, yeah, that. Nothing. What could hurt you if you learn how to get over embarrassment and shame and fear of embarrassment? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You're unstoppable.

Yeah. So it's almost like when you say, tell me what you think about this when you go in that place of, am I going to be good enough? Or, no one's going to listen, no one's going to care. Then you just say, they're not. You know what I mean? Like, you almost, like, want to tell yourself that's not what it is about. Right. Or how would you word that for somebody?

Yeah, I think it's. It's not that it doesn't matter if no one's listening, but it's like, no matter if they're listening or not, no matter who's listening, do it anyway. But the call, again, should come back to do it for you. Does it feel right to do this thing? Are you speaking your truth? Are you living your truth? In general, I think don't make decisions based on how you expect other people to react. You should make decisions based on, is it coming from an authentic place within you? If it is, then, yeah, who cares what other people, how they react to it? You're living your truth. And I mean, is it Dr. Seuss who says, those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter? I think everybody matters. But, yeah, I. I think in terms of your critics, don't let the potential critics stop you from doing the thing that you want to do and finding your own way in it. And I think that comes in especially within creativity. It's. Don't limit your creative expression because you're trying to fit it into the form that you think is going to be best received. Try it. People had to try something for the first time. Abstract art didn't exist before artists started making abstract art. So you just. You give it a go. If it feels right to you, try it. I say all this like, the caveat, I guess, is I do feel deeply to my core that I am a performer. That is a part of who I am. And so I do care about my audience, and I want them to have a good time, but I don't have to get there on the first try. I think, one, they're more likely to have a good time if I'm being my authentic self. But two, it's like even the best standup comedians had days where they bombed and they have to keep workshopping the jokes. You don't have the perfect product for your audience on day one. Even as a performer, if you want to be really consumed with your audience experience, which I think can be a really positive thing, even if you do, like, even if the audience experience is a big part of it for you, you have to trial and error and just keep workshopping it, and each iteration is going to figure out better what works each time. And. Yeah. So, yeah, it's like you're just saying.

Stop trying to be good. Just try to do, you know, perfect.

On the first try.

Right.

Probably stop trying to be perfect ever. But, yeah, that. Don't stop seeking perfection. That you'll land on something awesome, but only once you get started. Yeah. And the practice will help.

And hey, Alan, good to see you here. Alan said that's called doing the thing. Pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and doing it messy.

On that note, I'll just jump up and let's say it's funny the minute Carrie has an expression, which probably other folks say too, but we'll say a 50% solution today is better than 100% solution tomorrow. And that I think, gets at one piece of it, which is just. Yeah, don't let the overthinking delay beginning. And so it's just. Just start. We don't need perfection. Even if we can have perfection, if we overthought it later, we're losing by waiting. Begin. Just jump in.

Wow. You're like the epitome. Do the thing, but it's also. Find your voice is the other thing. So what I ended up doing when I started my podcast, it was originally going to be on sales, because in my business, that was what I noticed people held back on was the word Sales and selling and Anyway, then longer story. But then I started dating. I'd gotten divorced, started dating and realized that it was actually do the Thing. So that's where do the Thing really started was because it was the principles that I learned during sales that help me take action. Anyway, so with do the Thing starting, it was like, I started that because I was like, okay, I really want to help people get out of their head, release the mental baggage, all the stuff that gets in our way. But then by the 12th episode, I realized it wasn't just about doing the thing anymore. Because what I had done previously is I always did things for other people because I thought people wanted it or they expected it of me. And so what do the Thing became was really doing the thing, but doing it out of your own, from your own voice and tapping into that greatness that's inside of you. And so it's a compliment. I think you're. You're showing both right now where you're in this massive momentum because you've really tapped into who you are and what your mission is in the world.

Well, thank you. Yeah, I think it actually is all there in do the thing. But what is key is that you gotta define the thing, right? Like what's. What's the thing? It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean do anything. I mean be intentional, find what is the thing. What's the thing that you're like is coming from here that you want to do? So what is your thing that you're passionate about or that you want to try that you're curious about? Whatever it is, it's like having some sense there and putting intention into that, having some mindfulness about what the thing is. And then the next step is, okay, do it, you know, like then, then it's jump in. And you can create a constant feedback loop within yourself of like, is that the thing? It can change. I mean, brief anecdote is just I, every decade have like a list of things to do. I had a 30 before 30 list. Now I have a 40 before 40 list. And I write the list at the beginning of the decade. It's not like career goals, it's not ambitious goals. It's more like eclectic, well rounded things of know, off the beaten path that I wouldn't otherwise do. It's not like get promoted. It's more like go skydiving, something like that. So I said it at the beginning of the decade, but by the end of the decade I may have. When I was turning 28, I was like, oh, there are a couple things on this list that I haven't done, but I don't really want to do them. When I was 20, I thought I would want to do that by the end of the decade, but now it's like, not really me. So I was. You just give yourself the freedom to be like, I'm going to pull that out and I'm going to replace it with something else that feels more accurate so you can have that feedback loop within yourself of, is this still the thing for me? And then as long as it is. Okay, cool, great. Keep doing it. Keep checking in.

I'd love to hear. When I say, find your voice, what does that mean to you?

I feel it in two ways. One is like. The second one is actually public speaking in a way. And it doesn't have to be to a large audience, but it's like, find the way that you actually want to communicate, share your story. It is much more like words. It can be writing, but it's like, how are you actually. Yeah. Communicating with your audience, whether it be friends, family, or a larger group. But the first, I think, is bigger than voice. And it's just. It is your way of communicating with the world, with the universe, and with your life and with yourself. And so I think. And it's maybe more synonymous with this concept of truth. And so you said, find your voice. It's like, yeah, find the way that you are going to speak to the world. And speak is. Yeah, metaphor for just leave your mark. Your voice in that way could be dance. You're a dancer. And that could be finding your voice is like the way you're going to express yourself and leave a mark on this world is through dance. That's not verbal, that's not written or whatever, you know. So it could be that, but it could be also, it could be teaching. You're just a teacher or you're a baker. Any of these things that could be kind of your voice in that first way. And then the second way is like, okay, great, find your voice of. Find your power within. Like, sharing whatever it is that you do want to actually articulate to someone else in a concrete way. And I think that also is about finding your truth. But it's like, well, I think maybe it's that the first one is finding your truth and the second one is speaking that truth. So the first one is. Yeah, figuring out your authentic path through the world. And then the second is finding the confidence or feeling empowered enough or finding the right words or whatever it might have to be. For you to actually articulate that and share it and express it to other people in a way that they can understand.

And then I'd love to hear what you think when I say now I add community to it. When you find your voice in a community.

Cool. Yeah, I think, I mean, to me a community is such a instantaneously shifting puzzle where people are filling in the gaps for each other. I think about, I don't know, my mind immediately went to. In college, I was a backpacking trip leader. There was another leader and I. And then we'd take like 10 freshmen on the Appalachian Trail. And you don't know who the 10 freshmen you're taking on the trail are before they arrive on campus. But there are two leaders with unique personalities. And it's an interesting moment as a leader because as you get to know these freshmen and you're hiking together, you sort of see what personalities they all have. And as leaders, I think it's really important to kind of fill in the gaps what isn't represented in the group. So if it happens to be a more a group that's not really. They're not that chatty right away. They're not starting to socialize or whatever. Maybe the leaders need to step in and crack some jokes, lead some bonding games, lead some riddles or something, you know, just to get people talking and. But alternatively, maybe you have already some class clown energy in the group or whatever. Then maybe what you need to do as leaders is to step back a little bit and look for which of the campers aren't engaging as much. And then maybe you need to just be a little bit more soft spoken, have one on one conversations with them or whatever it may be. But I definitely really, that was a early moment for me where I had this feeling of observing a group and then deciding where I fit in. And so I think when it comes to finding a voice in a community, it's both everything already addressed, which is like you already, you know, a sense of self awareness is important, of what you can bring to the table. But then it's also seeing what does the community need and where can you fill in. Because there's an opportunity, I think, to affect, to be intentional about how you grow or shapeshift within what's already authentic. So in the same way as I described being a leader on this trail, it's not in that position. I bring my own strengths to that table. I know a million riddles and I have silly bonding games for the trail. But I also know that I can have that one on one conversation. What I'm less Good at at 54 is hanging the bear bag. I'm not the best person to do the. We need a taller leader for that, you know, maybe whatever. So it's like it's knowing what kinds of roles can I fill. And so in the community, I think what's special is that you can see what need might be there and how you can bring your voice to fill that need. And what's special about that is you take a moment to first observe the collective before you. You're not just subjecting the community to what you think you need to bring. You're creating space for what it seems like everyone else is bringing to the table too. And you're being flexible to. To shift within what you're able to bring. And so, yeah, I think that's really the only nuance is creating space for the fact that everybody else is also there with their own voices. And the end goal there is like what is sort of the maximum, not to make it utilitarian, but what's the maximum sort of utility of that group? And it doesn't mean how productive can it be, but in terms of overall joy or connection or whatever, I think when you fill those gaps and you're creating that puzzle piece of space for everybody else, the more that every single part of that community can be bringing themselves to the table, the stronger that entire community will be. So it's kind of like the personal responsibility to the group is to, while being honest to yourself, to adapt and be flexible to them as possible so that there's as much room for everyone to be their biggest selves.

Wow, it's so good. I'd love to get your thoughts on something. So the last couple years I've been building these communities and really understanding people's psychology and what helps them move through the do the thing part right through their comfort circle. And anyway, a few months ago, I think it's been, I met a movie producer, writer and we ended up starting a movie studio. It's actually do the Thing studios. And through that I ended up going, I don't know if you heard of Saddles and Service. They're local, they're in Descanso. We're creating a movie for them right now. It's going to be a fiction film. It's actually called At Liberty. They help veterans, first responders and active duty overcome ptsd and they're combating the suicide rate through equine therapy. And what I'm going to be doing with Them is we're going to have this fiction movie showing the power of community and the power of equine therapy. But we're going to movement with it, and the movement is going to be helping veterans understand that after you leave the military, it's like we're going to highlight these organizations that are helping people rediscover their purpose. So, for example, with Saddles in Service, it's equine therapy. There's another organization I found. They do it, they're sailing. There's another one that's with comedy. And so we're bonding together, all of these organizations, and uniting, because what happens is, you see this, I'm sure, where all these people are doing their own thing, but when you can gather all the people that are doing it, then all of a sudden, now, what can we do together?

Yeah, I'm so pro community. I mean, I run this nonprofit about building community. I think it's so important for everything. It is important for public health. It's important. I mean, yeah, the health benefits from just happiness to actual longevity matter. But, yeah, I think it's also. It's how we get through tragedy. It's how when there are natural disasters, we recover faster. It's. If we do want to be productive, it is more productive, I think. And it's. I think, you know, this is great that you're doing that within the military. Say what you want about anybody, but one thing it for sure is there is a teamwork mentality. And, you know, it's a massive team, but you're entirely teams within teams within teams. And I think what one thing I hear that people really miss when they leave is that sense of being on a team. Because, yeah, you know, we all, like, if it were like the Padres, it's, you know, there's like a million people on this Padres team, right? And. But you're on a ship with 5,000 padres, and everyone's wearing the same Padres uniform. And there's this sense of you're rooting for your team, and even if you don't know that guy well, he's on the team and you have different roles on the team, but everyone's pitching in and doing their part of the team. Even if you weren't conscious of it while you were serving, when you get out and then suddenly everybody at the grocery store, they're not all on your team. It's disorienting. I feel it even when I get back from deployments and I'm back in the regular world and I'm like, oh, because if I'm on the aircraft carrier, there are 5,000 people on the aircraft carrier. Every single person I bump into, a lot of them are strangers. I don't know all 5,000 people by name, but there's this sense of we're all working together, we're all on the same, you know, because you have some.

Whole comment, you're out, you're having a shared experience.

Yeah, absolutely right. You know, we're all in the same part of the world. We know that our next port call is in this city and we're all excited about that. Or we know where we just left from and we know what dinner is. You know what, like, oh, great, we can look forward to it, we're having burgers, whatever. But yeah, then you get back to the real world and the 5,000 people near you, 5,000 different, completely different lives. And who knows what the commonality is. And there's not, you know, whatever. And so I think when you get out of that in a permanent way, it can be really disorienting and can feel isolating and all, you know, there's so much to it. So that's really wonderful. Also, not to mention, of course, to combat PTSD is important, but to whatever extent you can help people find community, especially those who are feeling the delta, that's. Yeah, it's a really beautiful thing.

Okay, and then I wanna show you this. So this is what I've ended up discovering. Once I started, I had a couple of the circles, but I've completed them, at least for now. Let me just kind of show you. Basically what I found is, so the horse represents what you were talking about where you join the group and you're observing and maybe you had a tragedy and you're not even feeling safe yet to talk. And what the horse represents is equine therapy in this example, because that's what I got to see with the veterans and the active duty and the first responders is they went to this organization when some of them were actively suicidal. When a friend of theirs told them, not equine therapy, they said, hey, come and be a cowboy and learn how to train horses. And so then they went, and then they were met with the horse and they weren't even comfortable sharing their story or talking or anything. And they just did the equine therapy. But a horse also represents art, it represents sailing, it represents whatever that thing is the community puts as the non verbal part of it, where the person gets to just be in the room and not have to be a thing. And then There's a find your voice piece where they're like now, and this is like a person's evolution. But then once the person goes through the evolution, then their community goes through it. And some people, they never get out of finding their voice. They're staying there. They're never sharing their voice. I meet Uber drivers all the time that are amazing and tell me the coolest stories in the world. But then no one else will ever hear or not saying all of them, but there's some of them. And I'm like, oh my gosh, someone has to hear your story. And so some people don't even get out of find your voice. So then it's share your voice now it's make money with your voice. Then you're creating a movement. And I have movie on there just because I'm doing that now. And then what you're doing is you're doing that for your own movement. So anyway, I'm just, oh. And then I have the find your voice at each level. Because every time you're doing something new, a lot of times you have to rediscover. I'm just curious what comes alive when you're seeing that.

So I love that, I think, I love that you put find your voice at each of the circles. I think that sort of speaks to what I was saying about you should be a feedback loop with yourself to just keep checking in. But I also think, yeah, it looks different at each stage. Finding your voice of, okay, what's the way that I move through the world? How can I contribute the most? What's the thing that charges me? Great. Step one, then it's cool sharing it. That's more, I guess what I was describing as how do you best articulate that? And I think so. I've been a public speaking coach through Rotary Club. I was a public speaking coach for high schoolers. And these high schoolers come from schools that are predominantly from families that are very low income. They're all on school lunch plans. So these kids lack a lot of opportunity. But they come to this public speaking program, they have maybe an idea and that you have to work with them to get them to where they've memorized this five to seven minute speech and they're basically giving a TED talk and they're 15 years old. And it is so inspiring. But what's really interesting is each kid has a different idea that is going to be the thing that they're passionate about and want to spend the time on. And that's sort of step one. Find Your voice, but then share your voice. It's like, what is their unique style of speaking? Some people are comedic. Some people are very physical in how they share it. Some people, they're quiet, but they want to bring your attention to it. Even that is an element. And so until you reach the share your voice step, you might not even be thinking about what is your personal style to verbalize all that. And then, yeah, monetize. I mean, maybe you want. There's a way to boutique share your voice, right? But maybe you're like, no, I want to go. I'm going to scale it. Every city around the world is the way that I see it. And all of those things have a unique you style to it too. And I mean, I love that it goes to movement and then it goes to make a movie. That's so fun for me. But it's like, yeah, everyone's movie would be a different style. Pharrell, the musician and producer, I think it's already come out or it's coming out soon. But they did a biopic about him, about his life, and he said, I want everybody to be able to access this, so can we animate the film and do it in Legos? And this is like, he's a musician, music producer, and he was like, my biography film in Legos. And I think that is really cool because it's like, at no point was this guy the poster child for Legos. I don't think at step one circle or step two circle, he was communicating using Legos. But he reached the make movie space and he's like, yeah, in this moment, in order to continue my unique creative space style, it'll be Legos. And I think that's just a fun example of how what being you looks like is different as you change the environment and, you know, the stimuli. And I'll just say, for me personally, I had to figure out how can I be really Julie in the military? But I'm leaving the military. My Last day is June 2nd, and I don't know what's next, but I have been the helicopter pilot, magician, law student for a long time. Now I'm no longer. I have my law degree. I'm not going to be a helicopter pilot in the navy anymore. I'll still be a magician. So it's like, okay, what does being Julie look like when I don't have the same kind of identity markers that I once did? That's both in choosing what jobs to do, but also who am I going to be in those jobs?

Okay, so what Is your number one piece of advice for people on doing the thing?

Okay, well, I don't know, but the number one advice that I always give that I think applies here is to just be curious. It's like cultivate curiosity and to make that be a mini thing that you're always doing and it's be curious about yourself. If you find yourself interested in the thing that you didn't expect, don't be like, oh, that's weird that I like that and blow it off. Engage with, oh, why? You know, really be peeling layers of why about yourself, about why you do stuff, but also about other people, which it seems like this community is great at. But when you see anything that piques your interest for a second, definitely dive in and be very curious about it. But also if you see something you don't like, be curious about it too. If you meet people you disagree with, meet them with curiosity. Find out how they got to the place that's so different from you. I just think it is a, like being truly curious is a form of being compassionate. So I think that's really useful for just having civility with folks, is to meet them with curiosity. But in terms of personal growth, I think if you are always curious and are in this state of I'm always learning, then you will continue to always be learning. And it's basically doing with knowledge and learning what we're describing with lowering the inhibition, lowering the bar for performing. You know, if the second you call yourself an expert, now you have to. I feel like it's the same as deciding to be on stage, right? The pressure is on for perfectionism or whatever once you're an expert. But if you decide, no, no, I am an always learner and I'm always curious and I'm always asking questions, then you become uninhibited in asking questions. And yeah, it kind of in this, it breaks open personal growth in a similar way that deciding to be uninhibited or stepping out of your comfort zone is you're giving yourself permission to ask a million questions and to not know everything, which just opens up the field to grow.

Please share with everyone how they can follow you, find you and all the good things.

If you want to keep talking to me or listening to me, you can follow me on Instagram. That's probably the best way. My Instagram is J Y R O L A Gyrola. That's my Instagram. And then if you're interested in the show or JTMF show for just trying to make friends, show but if you find my Instagram, it's linked to that. If you find Jtmf, show, it's linked to me. Yeah, great conversation. I look forward to the next time we can chat.

Yeah, definitely. And thanks, you guys for coming. Do the thing. Don't wait for opportunity. Create it. And hey, guys, have you checked out my Facebook group yet? Go to do the thing collaboration dot com.