One Part Lion, One Part Lamb — Stephen Scoggins on Breaking Ceilings Through Surrender. (S5E15)

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Welcome to The Shepherd at Work, a weekly program to help you learn how to walk out your faith in every place you live and work. You'll be introduced to individuals who are successfully and effectively engaging in marketplace ministry, giving you the tools needed to do the same. The Shepherd at Work is brought to you by the Central Florida Christian Chamber. Now, here is your host, Crystal Parker.

I used to worship work. Now I use my work as worship. I'm Crystal Parker, and business is my sport. I serve as the president of the U.S. Christian Chamber of Commerce, and you're listening to The Shepherd at Work, where faith meets business. Listen, I brought in a lion today. I'm just saying. Well, he's one part lion and one part lamb, and you're gonna get to hear a little bit more about that. I can't wait. To introduce you to this kingdom warrior that dropped into the studio today to impart some incredible words for you. We've got some exciting things to talk about. I don't know that we have enough time, but we're going to try to maximize that. And I can't wait to, uh, get into the story of this gentleman that's joined us today. But first, we have to do this Shepherd at Work style. Stephen, we always start the show with who you are at the core, because at the core, nobody— the world cannot reject that, take that, fire that, remove that, or tell you who you are if you know who you are at the core in Christ. So my friend, who are you? Who is this guy Stephen Scoggins at the core?

Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on. I, I love everything you're doing, excited about the upcoming conferences and everything. But, uh, who am I at my core? Uh, I am a disciple of Jesus at my core. Everything that I do, everything about— doesn't matter if I'm building leaders, building businesses, or whatever, I want to do so with stewardship that's reflective of his mirror, uh, plain and simple. So that's probably the easiest thing. And he's the true one part lion and one part lamb, and I just want to emulate his behavior as much as humanly possible.

Let's talk about that— emulate his behaviors as much as possible. I think there's even a part in the Bible where he talks about, you see what I do, do what I do, right? Reflect me.

Yeah. So let's talk about—

because the, the Bible, I see the Bible as the living word of God, right? It's just so rich, it's so meaty, it's so wonderful. It just has a fragrance and a taste and an experience. But why did you hone into that one part lion, one part lamb? Like, what about that means something to you?

Yeah, well, I think it's— I think it's interesting because, um, I'll tell you this. So in September— I'm sorry, February of 2025 I went to New Zealand, and I was out there for about a 3-week sabbatical, and I wasn't really sure why I was going. I was going kind of more or less by myself. And, when I landed, there's a bit of a— call it a prayerful unction during some meditation, some prayer time out in the beautiful scenery of New Zealand. About 3 weeks into it, I hear this phrase, He said, "Stephen, you've been acting as a Saul and I've called you to be a David." And that really opened me up. In fact, I almost got emotional right there. That opened me up in a way in which I couldn't articulate. And then I discovered that he's calling all of us leaders to be Davids, and many of us are being Sauls. So I began to really think through, okay, what does that really look like? And when I started thinking about one part lion and one part lamb, I kept envisioning David in the fields as a shepherd boy, and the whole reason that God selected him to become the next king of Israel was because of his heart, because of his desire to be obedient, his desire to reflect God's presence, his desire to search God's heart above all things, his desire to stand up for what was right versus what was wrong, you know, by divine principles and not by harming and hurting other people., but by instead leading. He's leading, leading through embodiment. And when I looked at Saul, I began seeing a leader who was originally chosen and anointed to be the king of Israel, bring the 12 tribes together, and ultimately a leader that ends up falling, uh, literally on his own sword because of his own hubris and mistakes. So I began like contrasting what does it mean to become one part lion and one part lamb, and And each of those archetypes, there are mature styles and immature styles. So, I'll give you an example. You look at King Saul, he would be what I would refer to as the immature lion. He was prideful, he was arrogant, he was egotistical, he was controlling, domineering, and largely led by insecurity. Okay? On the immature side, he's also— it was also simultaneously an immature lamb, over-functioning, self-abandoning, constantly seeking approval from other people, often leading from fear and insecurity. When that helped me, that helped me just begin to shape up what I discovered is the 5 constraints. And these 5 constraints are what hold all leaders back. Now, when I go and look at David, on the other hand, I look at him on his best days, and he was the mature lion. He was bold, he was courageous, and he was protective. At the same time, he was also the lamb in maturity, in that he was loving, compassionate, merciful, graceful, ability to have connection, even divine wisdom of sorts. And you very quickly realize that when God asks a leader to step into a leadership role, no matter the level, he's asking them to really carry strength and surrender simultaneously. And I think when I look at that whole entire illustration, there's no— most everyone knows that Jesus comes out of the lineage of King David. His embodied carnation here on the earth, um, through Mary and through Joseph. Most people don't realize that from the 77 generations from Adam all the way to Jesus, um, that, that actually gets to Jesus through Joseph and through Mary. Mary being the bloodline, Joseph being the divine line, meaning the, the, the archetypal of King David, if that makes any sense. And both of them, both of them come out of two of Solomon's sons. I'm sorry, two of David's sons, one of which was Solomon. And you begin to unpack this, you begin to see that things are very much a, an onion that you can continue to pull layers back. But when I look at it, if I look at the world and the, and the things that are going on in the world, God is asking us to stop calling ourselves a Christian. Instead, start emulating that Christian behavior or the Christ that he gave us to begin with. He wants us to model and embody. That gives us the unity. It teaches us to become one part lion and one part lamb, because Jesus ultimately was the ultimate illustration of what it means to become one part lion and one part lamb. You know, not— it wasn't that long ago, a couple years ago, uh, I'm very gracious to grace one of your stages, and I chose the story, uh, for one of the conversations that we had around Jesus, with Jesus being, uh, with the woman who was caught in the act of adultery. And literally in seconds, you see Jesus, uh, you know, talk to the Pharisees and the Sadducees, if you will, at the time, who went out of their way to go find this woman and throw them in front of Jesus. Where he basically draws on the ground and says, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone." He was grounded, he was regulated, he was embodied, but yet he was firm, he was protective, he was courageous, he was bold, right? When he did that, and within seconds he turns the woman on the ground, and either some translations call her daughter, some call her woman. I like the term daughter, but he looks at her with tenderness in his eyes as a lamb. And it says, "Woman or daughter, where are your accusers?" And she says, "Lord, there are none." Within seconds, he is giving us a living illustration of what it means to become one part lion and one part lamb. But that contrast was started with that moment in New Zealand, backed by Saul and David, backed by what I later discovered were the 5 constraints. And then I saw fully embodied with our Lord.

I just ate a full meal right there on your words, and I'm just taking it in. And I can't help but to think about Stephen, I'm thinking about myself in corporate. I'm thinking about House of David because I'm like consumed it as soon as it came out, second season, and waiting for that third. But I'm thinking about Saul in those moments, and I'm thinking about leaders. And it sounds to me like you at this point were leading at that level. I mean, you're just, you know, recreationing in New Zealand and sitting out, and you know, it's a beautiful place. And God speaks to you in this way, and he's, he's, he breaks this down and gives you this divine wisdom. But in the moment of being a Saul, when you are using the word and language of 'I'm a Christian'— because I, I did, I used that language of 'I'm a Christian, I'm at the top of my game, I have enough money and power to make my problems go away'— but I'm telling people I'm a Christian, that there is— there's no one part of anything other than all of those things that you said about Saul. What, what's the looking glass? What, how could, how could you have reached someone like me in that moment? Because saying these words are words, but, but what is it? Just in one moment, just how could you? You're speaking to somebody that's in this season that's at the top of the game. They want to do a reflection on their heart to say, am I leading as one part lion, one part lamb, or am I more aligned with Saul What do I need to do to reflect, to see truly and start to have that humility to really assess where I am? I'm just trying to think, how could I have gotten through to me before I hit the rock bottom, right? Before you hit that wall.

Yeah, absolutely. So I think the first thing I would ask, I would invite someone to do is to close their eyes and take a deep breath and ask one question. Is there hidden weight that I have yet to express? Is there hidden weight that I have yet to express? In other words, is there weight that you're carrying right now in your heart, your mind, and your soul regardless of how successful you are? So, you know, Crystal, and some of your audience knows this as well, but I was homeless and then went on to build a company upwards of 9 figures in annual revenue, multiple team members, hundreds of team members across multiple states. And The moment of New Zealand was actually after I sold my company, after I had everything under the sun that you think you want or need, the things that most of us spend our entire lives chasing, the ability to have financial resource, the ability to have a great team, the ability to build a big business, the ability to, on paper, do everything under the sun. But yet, if I'm honest with myself, in that season, in that moment, and again, I've worked with I work with high-capacity leaders. A lot of clients that I've worked with are 7, 8, 9, and even a couple of 10-figure entrepreneurs, like business leaders, okay? Doing the different things, I'm mentoring and teaching and coaching at different levels for different things. But the one intangible that we all shared at one point in time until we began to do some of this alignment work is we all have an unspoken weight we're scared to acknowledge. We're scared to speak it out loud. What set Saul in— go— what got caught— what got Saul in trouble was actually the fears and insecurities and the things he was carrying that he wasn't sharing. He wasn't talking about it. He wasn't trying to develop it. He thought that if he got enough praise, enough power, enough control, um, that he was basically untouchable, right? And he thought that that was going to create safety in his heart, his mind, and his soul. Meanwhile, you've got David over in a field somewhere or in a cave somewhere, even with the ability to kill Saul, who chooses not to because he's so grounded, embodied, and so much in divine alignment with— call it his assignment if you want to call it that. But at the end of the day, if you have an unspoken weight that you're carrying, right, you got to start asking yourself, why am I striving in the first place, right? What— literally out of brute force and will my entrepreneurial journey got started. Necessity to eat, necessity for shelter. And then I got into, I'm going to prove that I'm the best at what I do. But then I had to ask myself, and this is hindsight, why do I feel the need I need to prove this? Because if you feel like you need to prove anything in the marketplace rather than serve the marketplace, it changes the lens in which you look at the marketplace in general. It changes how you look at your family, how you look at your relationships and your friends. In other words, are you surrounded by people that you can only gain from? Or are you surrounded people that you can pour into? Are you surrounded— are you in a marketplace where it's super exciting to kind of be out in front? Or are you in a marketplace that you can just show up as your authentic self? A lot of us don't realize it. I mean, we really don't realize it, but a lot of us are pursuing culture. We're pursuing world culture. And kingdom culture and world culture are completely opposite. The kingdom says those that serve receive the benefit of a bountiful harvest from the heart, right, of God, which could come in the form of beautiful relationships, money, resources, all kinds of things. But most of us, the kingdom culture says you have to become something to be seen as something, to be valued as something, and to be appreciated as something. David's identity was tied up in what God said he was, regardless whether he was in a shepherd's field or he's in a cave or in a palace. Saul, like many of us— and I'm speaking to the, you know, I'm speaking to a man who's walked this part of the journey out— but your Saul nature always wants to be seen, validated, and appreciated and heard by other people, but has the inability to feel seen, valued, heard, and appreciated from the inside out. David was grounded. David had that connection. And Jesus was the magnification of what David expressed on his best days. The courage to take out a giant, the faith to move mountains. Saul hid from the giant. Saul hid from Goliath. David took him out with a stone. Which one had the greater faith? This is where we have to start doing some self— some, some assessments with ourselves.

We have to pause. We have to take a break. But I just didn't even want to stop the riff because this is gold. But let's take a moment, hear from our sponsors. Central Florida Christian Chamber of Commerce.

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Once again, here is Crystal Parker.

Thank you to our sponsor, Central Florida Christian Chamber of Commerce. Uh, I don't know about you, but like, I've got flies in and out of my mouth after that because my jaw is on the floor with Stephen Scoggins and some of that information and just taking a reflection on the Saul and David and the lion, one part lion, one part lamb. I'm— I can't. I know that one of the things that people are going to be wondering is, wait, did you just say that you went from living in a car to 9-figure entrepreneur? How did that happen? I want to know more. I know there's a book coming out, all the things. So here's what I'm thinking, Stephen, for this small part of the second segment is that we help people understand how they're going to be able to hear your full story and engage with you. And then when is this book coming out? Because I know people are going to want to read about it.

Well, it's a little bit early for the book, but, uh, we, we're going to be partnered with, uh, Simon Schuster as a publishing partner, um, with one of our distributors. And the book will come out probably late October 2027. Um, but I am getting a lot of requests about to go deeper, "Hey, help us go deeper with David Saul. Help us understand One Part Lion, One Part Lamb." Is the book, is the resource, is it for just the faith audience or is it secular? It is actually both. We built it instructively that way. But I think what the easiest thing is to actually come and visit us at SWC this year. We are about 2.5 weeks out from SWC. I will have the fortunate benefit of hanging out in the Currency Lab, working with faith-led high-capacity leaders, understanding the currency, not just real currency with my fellow co— co-teachers, but also from a lens of kingdom. What does it mean to have currency in the kingdom? And it might surprise you what that is. Followed by, what I'm really excited about is obviously being one of the sponsors for the Red, White, and Blue— Red Hot and Blue.

Red, White, and Boots.

Yeah, Red, White, and Boots. There we go. I'll be bringing my boots. And I think that's probably the easiest way for me to spend some time with your audience who's very interested. We're going to have a beautiful time. I'm happy to unpack anything and everything. But I will give you this little tidbit. If you want to go from a Saul to a David, you just need to understand the 5 constraints in its simplest form: arrogance, ignorance, impatience, fear, and insecurity. And then simply begin living your life by their opposites. So the opposite of arrogance is humility. The opposite of ignorance is teachability. The opposite of impatience is not patience, but presence. The opposite of fear is truth. And the opposite of insecurity is compounded faith. These are the types of things that I think we can more unpack at the upcoming conference as well as let me, let me hug some people's necks for a little bit.

So good. Well, what's great about this conference, it's SWC 2026. It's in Orlando, Florida, April 22nd through the 24th. You're going to get a really close-up front look and conversation with Stephen Scoggins. I love the fact that You guys will have a booth there so people can engage with your team, but you'll also be sharing that, you know, from homeless to 9-figure story at the Red, White and Boots, where that evening is really— and I'm so grateful for your sponsorship and you're pouring into it, but that evening is really about faith, family, freedom, and the American dream. And I just love living in a country where we can be hearing from the wisdom of somebody that knows what it's like to live on the streets, to also be able to run, you know, 9-figure-plus companies and work in that level. I think there's value in the story because many people quit, they give up, they don't persevere, and they certainly don't walk away with the lessons and humility that you have. And then also the Currency Lab— I mean, this is a think tank on currency where people are going to be able to gauge around money. And a lot of this, uh, that we're talking about— the Saul, the David— but that part of power is money and the love of money. Money is not a bad thing, but the love of money is where people start to get a little off-center. What do you say? What do you have? What do you think around that?

Well, I think people need to understand that there's a difference between kingdom currency and culture currency, is, is the core thing. We're going to dive into that really deep during the Currency Lab, but At its highest level, kingdom resources come as a byway of authority where culture seeks power. See, power is a control statement, in my opinion, but authority, on the other hand, stands at the source in which the source comes from. So, when I think about the difference, we're going to start looking at at least one of the segments I'm planning on doing with those that attend is how do they see themselves with money? What do you believe to be true about money? I'll give you an example. You just mentioned going from one extreme to the other and how many businesses actually fail in the first 5 years, all this kind of stuff. Here's the crazy— all the businesses that succeed, 80-plus percent of them still never break 7 figures in annual top-line revenue. And when I actually began working with business leaders, high-capacity leaders, a lot of what we discuss outside of the types of currencies and things to invest in and whatnot is actually how they see money. So, the question I would leave your audience with is, what needs to be true for you to be completely aligned with the kingdom and how you see and handle money? Do you think wealth is evil? Do you think wealth is greed alone? How do you see wealth? Do you find yourself leaning into scarcity because you don't know any better? Because those are all the things that I had to overcome to one day be entrusted with any level of stewardship of any level of wealth. So I want people to ask themselves, what needs to be true about you right now to change how you see and handle the kingdom resource known as money?

I mean, that is something very powerful. People can just pause and reflect. I think you've given two very insightful nuggets for people to reflect on, and, uh, one of them being around money. And here we are, you're going to be one of the subject matter experts in the Kingdom Currency Lab. Your entire team of SMEs are some really neat people. We've got Kimberly, who represents, you know, merchant services and fintech. You've got the guy that is writing the laws around gold, and Kevin Freeman, and then Jeffrey, who has got Kingdom Bitcoin. And then your experiences— like, that lab alone is worth admission to people coming to join us at SWC 2026. And so obviously we want people to get a ticket to come out to join in conversations, be in the room and get a chance to meet you, Stephen. In addition to joining us at SWC here, how do people get a hold of you if they want to reach you right now?

Yeah, I think they can always go to stephenscoggins.com with a P-H, S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S-C-O-G-G-I-N-S.com. It's probably the easiest thing. You can also find me pretty much on every social channel of your choice. But more importantly, when you visit stephenscoggins.com, go ahead and put a backslash there and just type in the word leader. The reason is, is that'll give you a really quick assessment. There's nothing to sell, nothing to buy, but a really quick assessment on where you are in your own hierarchy of becoming one part lion and one part lamb, along with some, some key tidbits and principles that will help you essentially figure out what to do next with that information. That's where I would start.

Awesome. We'll get that in the show notes. And Stephen, thank you so much for all of the wisdom you imparted and truly living out what you're talking about. What a joy it was to have you on the show, and God bless you, and we'll hear you here next time on The Shepherd at Work.

You've been listening to The Shepherd at Work. Tune in next week for a chat with another marketplace leader who will help you learn how to live your faith in every place you live and work. The Shepherd at Work has been brought to you by the Central Florida Christian Chamber, building kingdom, business, and community. The preceding was a Mark Radio production.