Women’s Month Special - Money, Mindfulness & Mastery

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The Bolden financial planning platform, formerly New Retirement Create a financial plan for free@bolden.com. Welcome to Bolden youn Money, where we explore the intersection of wealth, mindset and smart financial moves. I'm your host, Steve Chen. Today we have a special guest, Lisa Peterson, who's joining us from Sedona, Arizona. We're going to talk about financial mindfulness and her own journey from scarcity to abundance. She's the author of the Mindful Millionaire, and she's helped thousands of people transform their relationship with money. And today she's here to share insights. So with that, Lisa, welcome to our show. Thanks for making the time.

I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

It's a little bit of a interesting story how you got here. You were meeting with Dani Jackson, who's our chief of staff, her women's group. She mentioned that you came to present and then demoed Bolden and that's not why we did this, but she told us this after the fact. And then we were getting ready and she pulled out your book and she's like, I'm reading the book. And she said it was super helpful. So I appreciate that we have the connection here and get you on the show.

I love it and I love Bolden. And I just have to say that was extra treat. So I'm a big fan.

That's awesome. Yeah. So I would love to hear your own journey, how you came to where you are today. I was watching your YouTube video. We'll point to that. Like how you came from growing up to college, your first career, and then this pivot to coaching and being an author. Yeah.

I talk a lot about my backstory and what I create because the most important thing, especially having a book called the Mindful Millionaire, people might assume that I've come from money or that I had people helping me along the way. And it wasn't really like that. Like, I came from lower middle class in the Bay Area. My parents had barely finished high school when I was born. They were both 20s and no education about money. It was not an easy situation. My mom cut hair, my dad, I kind of partly jest, but my dad was a truck dispatcher and sold drugs on the side. Just to give you an idea of like, that was my childhood. So I say that because my relationship with money has always been good, but not because I was taught it. It was because I learned from an early age that was we didn't have any and I really liked money. So I figured out how to hold onto it, even though my parents weren't really good at holding onto it. Maybe that sets the stage for the fact that I would eventually go into finance and study finance in school. Not my first pass, but my second pass because I wanted to design clothes. I got out of college, started working in San Francisco for a clothing designer. And I was making minimum wage, I was making less than I had made when I was like, like working as a waitress in high school. So I was like, okay, redo. And then that began my financial journey.

Did you go get your MBA or something like that?

I did, yeah. I went to, at that time Cal State Hayward. And I had a business in San Francisco working for all the biggest designers, clothing designers, because it turned out I was a fit model size, like perfect size 6. And so I built this business and after I quit working as a designer because I couldn't make any money and I was making a lot more money as a fit model. And then I came up with the idea that I could go to college at nighttime. I didn't have any money, so that was the only way. And thank goodness for state schools because it was like a godsend that I could pull it off in a couple years and not owe any money when I finished, for sure.

I think it's so many people have gotten into trouble with student debt. We're dealing with the repercussions right now. I think now the next generation has definitely learned that it's got serious consequences. We have a kid in community college right now and like the first kid, we have three kids, first one went through four year state school. It's way more affordable. Second kids in community college, which is basically in California free. I mean you have to pay for housing, but we have friends that their kids are going to USC and it's 90 grand a year or something like that, it's like it's a tremendous amount of money. So more people are definitely thinking about it. But I mean college is a good investment or can be a good investment, but you have to be thoughtful about it. But taking on a bunch of debt, you got to be very careful about.

Yeah, I was not into it because I think coming from where we had no money, the idea of getting into debt, which was my parents big problem, they came of age in the time when credit started taking off right in the early 70s and so they got in way too deep. They would have cars repossessed. We had a house that we had to move out of because they couldn't make the payments. It was really stressful growing up. And so you can see how that would set the stage for me eventually teaching people about scarcity, because I lived it and I had a hard time getting out of it.

How are your parents doing now? Are they still alive or are they.

They are not alive, sadly and unfortunately. I've had a lot of tragedies in my life, and one of them was my father was killed in a domestic dispute back in 1999. And that really was the wake up call. Like, the first wake up call. For me to say I'm not actually a very happy person, and then to face my dad being basically murdered was a big turning point in my life. So my parents, they had really, really traumatic lives, let's just put it that way. My mom died a few years later, unfortunately.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know that. I wasn't trying to.

No, it's okay. I'm very open about it.

We're so informed by not just as individuals, but also as giant cohorts of people. Like people that were born after the Great Depression. They lived a certain way. Millennials. A lot of them came of age around 2000, the great financial crisis in 2008, and that totally affected their earning power and savings ability, but also some of their mindsets around how they think about money. You kind of had this very rough or challenging childhood, and then that got you focused on, like, I want to make a lot of money. And so you got your MBA and then you went into banking. Mortgage banking. Like, what was that like?

I started after my mba, I started in insurance and started building a career there, and then ended up getting a phone call, actually Wells Fargo in San Francisco with kind of the job opportunity of a lifetime to run a division, and ended up moving into banking in 1998. And I did that for several years. But long story short, the people I worked with came from a different world than I had come from. For the most part. I had come from the other side of the tracks. And as I would work circles around people, but the corporate world was not actually a really good place for me. Like, I didn't fit in. I didn't really know how to kind of hold my own, and I just wanted to work really hard, and I got up the ladder really fast, but. But I wasn't ready for the corporate stuff that would come kind of after me. And I ended up leaving and going into mortgage. So I stayed with Wells Fargo and I started working in mortgage banking, which, by the way, nobody walks away from the kind of job I was a Vice president with almost 40 days of vacation. I was getting stock options. Like, nobody walks away from those jobs. And yet I was like, I'm outta here. I'm gonna go do sales. Which was crazy pants. But I went into mortgage banking and then eventually started working on my CFP to become a financial advisor.

Interesting. So you had a larger corporate job and then you kind of headed towards one to one service. Yeah, I would imagine the transition from mortgage banking to financial advice would be pretty different. What was that like?

Yeah, all of it was not normal. I think the first couple of years in mortgage banking, I had a lot of lucky breaks. I was in living in Tahoe at the time. I got connected to some very powerful real estate people in Tahoe, like the number one producer in all of Lake Tahoe. And she started sending me deals. And my first home purchase deal, nobody could understand this in the mortgage business was a $5.5 million lakefront at the time. So, like, I was really fortunate. So I was able to kind of establish myself very fast in that line of work and learn how to work with high net worth individuals because that's who was buying homes in Lake Taho. And that also probably inspired me around my work that I do today, which is really understanding what it takes to build wealth. Who are these people? How did they do it? Where did they get the education and knowledge to build wealth? And then eventually I realized that I could be even more helpful to people as an advisor. Even that transition was a big one, but I was like, ready for the challenge.

Interesting. Do you have any big insights from working with people that have a lot of money? I mean, I think a lot of people think that many people that have money come from money. Did you find that or did you also find a lot of people had worked their way up?

Most of the people did not come from money. They had worked very, very hard to get where they were. A few things that stuck out even back to that first purchase. I was an underwriter, and so that was an unusual thing that they don't do anymore. But they allowed the producer, the banker, to also be the underwri, especially for these very complicated loans, you know, when you get into multimillion dollar loans. So I would go through the tax returns and have to understand. And I'll tell you, that person made a big impact on me. He was giving hundreds of thousands of dollars away in charity on his taxes. And I was like, wait a minute. Right away, these are not the people I thought they were. These are incredibly benevolent. Shut down, he owned A restaurant in the Central Valley. And he would sh in his restaurant several times a year to, like, give free food to, like, everybody in the community. I mean, just the most giving, kind people that, you know, wasn't everyone. But that was one of the things that I was like, yeah, there's something else going on here. This idea of giving back and caring about the impact that he was making in his community made me pause. I also noticed just the kind of risks, the risk taking that people were willing to engage in and how hard it was to get loans for people. Even though most of us would think that these are really wealthy people, but they were putting everything on the line.

Yeah, for sure. I think that that's part of the American dream, is that you can bootstrap your way up and work hard and take risk. I second that. I definitely. The people that I know that are successful, they all work hard. They do have an appetite for risk. That's unusual and is basically required. They say to get rich, you have to concentrate your bets, and then to stay rich, you have to diversify. Once you have money, don't keep it all in the same place.

I like that. Yes.

So you're doing this stuff, and then you become a financial advisor, and then after that you stop being infinite. So how did that go?

So it's probably important to mention that my husband and I have been together since college, and early in our, I'd say, late 20s, we realized that he wanted to build houses and is a contractor, and I'm really good with money. And so we realized that there was an opportunity to build a business where we would build houses with his expertise and I would find the money for them. And so we've been building wealth for 30 years now through this partnership of renovating homes, living in homes for a few years, taking advantage of the tax benefits. So we weren't building our wealth through the traditional just like our 9 to 5 work. It was being done on the side, and that's where we were taking our big risks.

And has that worked out pretty well?

Yeah. So if I hadn't done that, I think it would have been hard to walk away from being a financial advisor in my mid-40s thinking that we were pretty darn close to having enough money to last, you know, if we were careful, for the rest of our lives. I started my business at 47, and now I'm 58, so 11 years. Over the course of that time, I think partly because of the work that I do, and something like Bolden helped me to, like, realize hey, we're. We're okay because of all these steps that we've taken over the years.

Yeah. Well, I think it's awesome that you've done the. I've known some people that have done this. It was pretty prevalent in 2005. I remember people were like flipping houses, but they weren't necessarily experts at it. They'd just be like trying to finance it in San Francisco, buying, fixing houses and selling and making a few hundred thousand or whatever they made. I think the way you're doing it over 20 or 30 years definitely works because you ride up and down the interest rate fluctuations and are you keeping the houses or are you kind of fixing them and you're selling them as you go?

We definitely take advantage of tax code that allows you to live in your home as a primary home for two years and then earn up to half a million dollars tax free. So we've done that many, many times. And we try to not live on that money that goes sort of into savings and then we live on whatever we're earning.

So.

So we've done other projects. But you have to admit, it's a pretty sweet deal to be able to just live in the house almost for free with what we end up pulling off. So after a while, we had enough money that we didn't have to get loans so that we could build another house while we were living and doing the two year thing.

So. Got it. So you're building ahead and then you're moving into it. Smart.

Yeah, exactly.

There you go.

Yeah.

So you did achieve financial independence or close to financial independence leading into this. And I do think that's such an important thing. If you can get there or get some understanding of how you could be close to it, it can make a giant difference in your life and the choices you're willing to make.

Yeah. When I started to really think about all that I had learned that had a lot to do with me wanting to help other people and realizing that it's not like one size fits all. Everybod is going to build wealth in a different way. And there's no right or wrong. The challenge is, is that a lot of people have a hard time understanding the degree of focus that it takes to get to that goal, that you can't keep going off the freeway. Like you got to stay on the freeway. You can't take all the off ramps and then think that it's still going to work out for you. So a coach is helping people stay on that path. Not that it again looks the Same for everybody. But you've got to be really focused or it's too easy for it not to work out.

Got it. Do you focus specifically on helping women or do you help anybody?

I've helped anybody over the years. Definitely women have been drawn to my work because I bring the mindset and all the preparatory work into the practical because I like to go back and forth. It's like, okay, well what's keeping you from doing this? And then now that you've got that out of the way, let's talk practical stuff. What do you need to do? How are you going to achieve these goals, practically speaking?

Got it. Just as a side note, what do you think about the Elvest situation? Did you see that?

Elvest?

Do you know Elvest? It's like a female focused financial advice.

I don't know the latest news, but I know who they are.

They basically have pivoted. So they were helping, I think 70,000 people as members. But then the business wasn't scaling well enough so they moved over like almost everybody to betterment and then they kept the top 300 ish clients as one on one clients. Anyway. I was, I don't know if you.

Saw that, but yeah. Well, talking about the video that went viral that you were watching, like that was my challenge with the industry is it's so hard if you aren't focused on those top earning, top, most wealthiest clients. That's where all the money comes from. So it doesn't surprise me they would have to make that pivot.

Yeah, it's tough because I think there's so many people like us included, we're trying to solve the problem for the mass market. But yeah, all the money is in the top tier. Okay, so you achieved financial independence. You've kind of gone through this whole, like coming from scarcity, getting educated financially, going through all these jobs and then you're like, okay, now I'm going to be a coach. Was there some moment that was like, okay, I need to do this, I need to change. Because that's a pretty dramatic switch.

Yeah. Sadly, I feel like I have all these sad stories, but in 2013, I was a financial advisor in Incline Village at the time and I had a doctor's appointment in Reno, Nevada. I was in the doctor's office. A man walked in who had been a past patient. He looked at me and everyone in the, in the lobby and he said, you might want to leave now, and pulled out a large gun and started shooting people and killed my doctor and killed himself and shot other people. In the office, I did not get hurt. But that was one of those pivotal moments. I had already thought that I wasn't going to stay a financial advisor. I had already had some thoughts that I could make a bigger impact in the world through education. But it scared me to even think about it. And in that moment I was like, if I live through this, I am going to leave. Like, I'm just going to do it and I'm just going to leave and I'm going to start teaching people and I have no idea how I'm going to make money, but at least I'm alive. That was the beginning of leaving.

That is crazy.

I know.

You're the second person I know that I've met. There was one of our kids friends was in Las Vegas when that guy was shooting. The sniper guy was shooting into the concert. It's so insane that this stuff happens in our society. Yeah, people just do this kind of stuff and it's real. You know, people are like, oh, it's a read about the news, it's like whatever. But you lived. I mean, it's incredible. Well, one, I'm glad you're alive. You must have PTSD about that. I mean, I can't imagine that because you were right there.

Yeah, it definitely changed my perspective, I think because I have come from a lot of trauma. Maybe it didn't change me as much as it might change someone else. But I think that more than anything, I have a big sense of how precious life is. And I know inside of your question there was like, are there other pivotal moments? And I will say that that caused me to start the business. Writing the book was another big wake up call. First of all, to be invited by this incredible publisher to published the book with St. Martin's Press, The Mindful Millionaire. We've sold nearly 20,000 copies, which is incredible for a financial book. And then a few years after that, my husband got diagnosed with prostate cancer. And so again there was this other moment of like, wait a minute, you know, we're, we're trying to live life fully, but still it's not enough. And at that time, I ended up shutting down a lot of my business. So this was a couple years ago because I was like, I want to take care of him. I think we're okay with money. I want to live. We don't know if this is going to be it. And we just started traveling and doing all these things that we had put off because our kids are eight years apart. So we have been parents of children in the home for 26 years. And so my son was going off to college, and we were like, we're just going to be like kids again. And all of these different moments, though, continue to reinforce why the work that I do is so important. Because I think the biggest realization I've had through all of this is that what happens for many of us is we go on pursuit of money. We think that money's going to take care of us and solve all our problems. And it does help a lot. But in the course of building a life, we can actually lose sense of the true life that we're here to live.

How do you frame that up for the people you coach? How do you get them to think about how they should prioritize things in their lives?

I think writing the book is one way, but what I found is people have to be at their own moments of understanding. Nobody can force you to confront the life that you are living and whether or not it's at the highest level that it could be lived at. I'm probably here more than anything for people when they realize that something's not right. And I'm here with my books or my videos or I've got a new book coming out. Like, all I can do is position myself in places where if people are receptive to another way of thought, then my book is there for them.

What are those moments when, for you, they've been through some very tough, challenging times? Is that usually what happens? Is it someone loses a job or someone loses someone they love, or there's a health scare or something like that? Or is it. Do people come to you? They're just like, I'm having a great day. Actually.

Not so much. Not so much. Most of the time, people are like. I mean, divorce would be another big one, especially for women, where maybe they were used to having two incomes and now they're working on their own financial independence and they're struggling because there was a lot of. Maybe there was codependence or there was not as much understanding as they need. I would say it's. Life transitions are often why people will hire a coach. In general, there's a realization that something in their life isn't right. And for me, I think over the past 10 years, when I first started, people didn't even know what scarcity was. But a book came out and talked about scarcity. And just for everyone listening, this book about scarcity by these two professors at Harvard and Princeton, it said that when we are in, when we're consumed by there not being Enough of something, we can lose like 13 points of IQ or like losing a night's sleep. And our decisions are heavily skewed in ways that don't serve us. And so I love talking about that because what happens is we go into scarcity mode. And I mean, let's face it, right now there's been a change of administration. There's all kinds of strange things happening and people are going into scarcity mode. They might not know that's happening, but they're becoming frozen like deer in headlights. I'm not sure what to do or panic, where they do things that they probably shouldn't do. And so those are moments when having someone else to kind of hold your hand and be like, okay, let's look at what's going on. Like, what's working, what's not working? Like, let's frame this in the context of a helpful. And that's when all this experience that I've had can be really, really helpful.

No, it's awesome. There's so much uncertainty right now and volatility. And you're seeing, I think, people, the whole country potentially lose a little confidence. Right. The stock market's kind of an indicator of confidence. Right. People are like, I don't know, maybe all these tariff changes and rule changes and maybe we don't want to dump Social Security. Like, you know, there's talk of like, oh, we're going to change Social Security and Medicare. Right. All these programs that people have kind of relied on for a long period of time. It's kind of a vote. Let's transition to this part of it. Like, how do you help people recognize that they're in that mindset and then make changes to get out of it?

Yeah. So recognizing it is definitely a crucial step towards transformation. It can show up in these subtle but perversive ways. So, like worrying about not enough, or anxiety coming around expenses or surprises or the unknown, even something like thinking to yourself, I can't afford that can be a response. So being able to notice it is really helpful. Knowing yourself well, knowing the patterns that you fall into. For me, I will go into worst case scenarios. And that's when I'm like, okay, something's not good here. Like, slow down. And what we do in that when we catch ourselves is we can ask ourselves, like, is that actually true? Do you have factual evidence that this thing that you're worried about is, is true? And many times we'll run on outdated programs that don't relate, but if it is true, then we can still come up With a very clear strategy of what am I going to do about it? Because I hang out with a lot of finance people and we'll just talk about the market for a moment. Some people, they have nerves of steel and it does not matter to them what's happening with the stock market. I am not one of those people. Some of us are not like that. And we have to have a way so that we can sleep at night. That's it. So you got to know yourself and know what? You can't just be like, it's not happening, it's not happening. Like you, you gotta understand what your strategy is and how do you take care of yourself. I also would say things like practicing gratitude deliberately. Like again, back to Bolden. One of the things that I love about Bolden is that it allows me to be like, you're gonna be okay. Like this might go down. But like you've seen the picture, you know where you're at. Like I can normalize it with a tool that actually gives me some factual data that keeps me from like running into patterns that might be helpful. So gratitude platforms that give you information. I also think it is really helpful to surround yourself with abundance oriented people. Like people that are like curious. And even when the market drops, that means that there's an opportunity, you know, to actually take advantage of something new, you know, like make sure you've got those people in your life. Does that make sense?

Yeah, 100%. There's a self organizing group of our users that invited us in last week to kind of just meet with them and there's a bunch of. It was actually all guys. We were asking where the women were, but it's like a lot of guys and they're all like, you know, they're all kind of like approaching retirement and they were there because they kind of supported each other and they were kind of sharing their stories and you know, I mean they're sharing their, they're pretty open with each other. Once they learn to trust each other, they want to understand and learn from each other. Like what are their blind spots? What are they doing? Well, what are things they're dealing with in their, in their own lives? And how do they, how do they do that with their partners or spouses and, and with their kids and things they're trying to get accomplished and it's kind of super interesting to watch them. So I definitely agree, like a community of like minded people that have seen it before. So personally I used to be more active in the market and worry about it and Then I took the index and chill pill and just like, hey, I'm just going to invest in lo fee index funds and just keep doing that and not think about it. This is after doing like 80 podcasts, people like you that know what they're doing. And generally it's, I mean, the market's been up to the right. It's been working. But like even now when it's with this volatile and kind of like, I believe the US Economy and the world economy is pretty resilient, we're investing in productivity. It's worked for 100 something years generally. Well, there's an impact to the climate we have to be thoughtful about, but generally we're helping, we're getting more productive and that is helping people live better lives. And that's a good thing. You can participate in that through the stock market. I'm not trying to pick the perfect equity. I'm just trying to kind of ride along with the market. Yeah. And I would say the gratitude thing is also huge. Right? That's super, super important.

Yeah.

How do people's thinking change? Like people are coaching as they recognize this hopefully scarcity mindset, learn to adapt and get out of it. How do you see them changing as they, they get to more of, I guess an abundance mindset?

First thing that comes to me is confidence. A lot of people struggle with having confidence, particularly around their financial choices. And when I say that, I say women more than men and being able to have somebody to kind of talk through their plan, talk through their strategy, check and make sure it's going where they want, make sure that their mindset is oriented to what they actually want to achieve. Then people actually do it. They deliver on the things that they've always wanted to do. They don't make some, you know, the excuses maybe that they kind of got trapped in. So they get out of their own way, they take action. I would say I work with entrepreneurs and also people who work for others. And I'm always blown away at like people taking huge leaps in their career, which isn't actually all that common that it happens. But that is one of the things where, you know, they were when I first start working with them, they're at one level and a few years later they're a couple levels above where they started at a much higher pay. And they're responsible for a lot more people and their mindset and the confidence that they have and the strategic wisdom that they're applying, it really shines brightly in their organizations. And again, back to a lot of Companies don't invest in their people with coaching. So these are people that have invested in themselves. They paid for it out of their pocket, which I don't even know if I would have done when I was working in those roles. Like, I got some coaching and some other stuff way back. It takes a risk to invest that money in yourself without the company paying. And it pays off in a big way.

I can see that. When we renamed the company from New Retirement to Bolden, we called it your financial confidence platform, because that's what we thought. Kind of the main benefit is people, they understand their money, they get more literate, and they build confidence. And that confidence can express. I mean, not that there's your financial confidence and then there's your career confidence and everything else, but agreed that it's a key part of being successful.

Yeah, I think it goes together, actually. I often think to myself, like, oh, if I had to go back to work and I had to go into a job interview having been self employed, I know that that has its own baggage. But I feel very confident that it wouldn't take me very long to be able to prove the value that I could make in an organization because I am so confident about what I've been able to do on my own and the idea that I could bring that into a company, like, I know it's possible. And I say this in the book. Actually, I was revisiting something in the Mindful Millionaire, and I talk about the fact that your level of personal prosperity that you feel is 100% connected to how you feel about money. And that prosperity doesn't just apply to money, it applies to, like, every aspect of your life. And people can feel it.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that if you go off, if you've never been an entrepreneur, once you. If you go off and you kind of like, figure out how to do this stuff on your own, then people can't really take that away from you. So you've been outside the corporate world, but if you went back in, you'd be like, okay, I'm playing. But I think your orientation probably much more like, is this worth my time versus should they? When you're first getting a job, you're like, I hope you pick me. Right? It's like, please pick me so I can work here. But once you're like, out, you're being like, well, is this worthy of my time? Right. Because our scarcest resource is our time and is the organization. We see this a lot with people in our company. It's like they're really being thoughtful about. They have choice about what they want to work on, who they want to work with. Do they think they'll be doing something good in the world? And more companies are getting that way and more younger generations are definitely way more this way.

Wow, I love that so much. Because that's not what we always hear about, you know, like in the news.

Well, it's. Yeah, not everybody, I mean, not everybody has choice and it is definitely a privilege. But so what are some of the habits that you, you encourage people to develop so that they can build their resilience and confidence?

One of the things specifically to women that I was thinking about coming into this conversation is a lot of women feel like they're faking it with finances. They don't feel like they have all the information. Even the group that Danny's a part of, like, they're so successful. I don't think people would believe this. Just some of the most successful women on the planet and still the confidence isn't there around finance. You know, there's still a lot of unknowns. And so we'll call it like imposter money mindset. There isn't the understanding of just how far along they are. And so back to your comment about community. Like, I think it's super powerful to be in community with other women talking like very openly about your financial situation because where else are you going to get that wow, you're amazing kind of feedback? Because we don't know. Because if we don't talk about it, how would we know that we're so good at it? And when we don't know, we might self sabotage, we might undercharge, we might avoid financial conversations altogether. Owning that, owning your financial authority, knowing that women are actually. All the data says that when women apply themselves, they're actually more successful investors overall than men, which is like fascinating. Most people don't necessarily believe it, but it's. The data says it. They do really well. We also can be very hard on ourselves and we have this like perfectionism mentality. But that isn't the way that money goes. Money is like, you really do have to feel this way. I am doing the absolute best I can in this moment. And that's enough. That's it?

Yeah, 100%, I think women. Well, we just had Toussaint Bailey on the podcast. He was talking about this book, 2030 that says that in 2030, women are going to globally are going to control like two thirds of the wealth in the world.

Oh my gosh.

I think we're definitely heading that way. Yeah, yeah, I would love to look at the data. Agreed. Long term investing. I know that there's also data that men, especially younger men, are much more comfortable with risk. And risk taking appropriately applied is a key part of this, of building wealth. And this is from someone who took weight, not enough risk when they were younger. As you learn to embrace risk and take a long term perspective, it totally changes your outcome in a huge way.

Yeah, that makes so much sense. The other thing that women get, really, I mean it's just a fact of nature is that there's a lot of emotional and financial caretaking happening through money by women. We end up taking care of children, we take care of parents, we take care of a lot of different people. And I think it's good to have allies in that experience because giving more isn't always the best solution. And if you only have yourself to go through the decision, I think that's putting a lot of pressure on people without any experience of how can I do this better?

Yeah, caregiving is going to become, is and is becoming a much bigger drag on society. I mean it's important. Right. But people are living way longer. I think people over 100 are the fastest growing demographic now. Proportionally people are just living which good. It's not free. This is a huge reason to really invest in your health continuously. Be ready to be working out when you're 75, 80. Yeah, it's like that orientation.

I don't know if you pay attention to this, but I'm super curious because even in Bolden I haven't set it to go beyond 100, even though I know that there's a good chance. Like I have grandmothers who've lived into like 97, 99. Do very many people set it beyond 100?

That's a good question. I would imagine more people are taking it out farther. And if you're planning to live or think that you could be alive past 100 or you know, who knows what's happening with technology, then you really want to get to a place of equilibrium where ideally you're, your assets can pay for your life on an ongoing basis. I mean what does happen is people spend less over time. Everyone's worried about like having enough money when you're 95 and actually the odds of you being alive are lower, way lower. You know, if you look to the average 95 year old there, you know, one, we're not supposed to live that long, but two, there's no beating 95. You're still whatever that age. But you do spend less money as you age. When you first retire, people, they call it the go, go slow, go, no go. I mean, that definitely is a real thing. People spend about 1% less on a real basis per year, so about 10% per decade. So, you know, if you're three decades into retirement, you're spending 30% less than when you first retired.

Yeah. So what that tells me, combined with all the different things like long term health insurance, which we do not have, this is why when you're in your 40s, 50s, and 60s, you want to be really good friends with your children to the point where they're like, yes, mom and dad, you will have a place to live when you are 95 years old. We love you so much and you do not annoy us to no end. That's when you work on who you are inside to make sure that your kids would actually be agreeable to something like that.

This whole idea of intergenerational planning, I think is real. And yeah, this idea of the older generations, they have all the money and they can use it to help their kids buy houses and stuff like that. But maybe they should also have contracts that, yes, okay, I'm going to help you buy your house when you're 35 and 45. But, yeah, you're going to be helping take care of me when, you know, when you're 65, I'm like 95.

We do that. Like, if you've read Die with Zero, Bill Perkins work, he came on my podcast several years ago. I was like, oh, yeah, we're going to help our kids buy houses. We are going to get them set up so, so that they, they're not going to have student debt. All those things that can help them early in life so that they have a really strong foundation and then they don't need you again, hopefully. And then later in life they're like, you were so wonderful to us.

I read the synopsis of Die with Zero, but I'm going to have to listen to your podcast, so maybe I'll try to get. It'll be interesting. It's Bill Perkins, you said.

Yeah, Bill Perkins is good. The conversation with him that I had, I'll. I'll send it to you, the link to you, but it's so good. Like, it definitely was one of those conversations I've had, like three or four or 500. I don't know, I've lost count. And that was one that stuck out, that I was like, oh, yeah, this is a game changer for Me, that.

Book keeps getting circulated. People are like this idea. So are you a die with zero person, or are you.

I'm hoping that I can give them money when I'm done, but I definitely am not trying to amass some huge amounts. It's more of, like, lifestyle. Like, we just got back from three weeks in New Zealand. We went last year. We definitely live a very adventurous life.

Give me your top three adventures.

Well, the New Zealand trips have been great. We actually took a helicopter to the top of Tasman Glacier near Mount Cook. That was amazing. We love mountain biking. We ski. We travel all over. We get ski passes and travel to different locations. And thinking about Mont Blanc and my daughter and her husband. Now, a few years ago, during the pandemic, neither of them, especially my daughter, wasn't really. She was out of college. She wasn't sure what she was going to do. She was working as an EMT and thinking she was going to go to med school. And Covid happened, and long story short, we asked them to quit their jobs and move here to Sedona to build a house with my husband and learn how to do it. And in the course of building this house, which we're now about to sell, they started an Instagram company, like content creation, that has exploded, and they have close to 750,000 followers all over the world. They negotiate deals with the biggest brands in the world, all because of taking this time off of, you know, the normal path and following their passion. And so they do adventure travel and backpacking. They're based in Tahoe, and it's just so exciting to watch the lives that people can create. And I have to say, my daughter has an abundance mindset, and I think it has a lot to do with this work. And, like, growing up in a home where we were trying to figure it out, she just ended up getting it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, it's interesting to think about the generational evolution. Well, you'll have to introduce me to your daughter while we're looking for influencers. We should have gotten her on the podcast, too, with you. We should get my son on the podcast and your daughter, because my son is an entrepreneur. My oldest son, he watched us, and then right out of college, he's like, I'm going to build a company. And I was like, this is a terrible idea. And then you're copying someone else's idea. Anyway, he. But of course he makes it work, and he's grinding it out. And now he's like, you know, having a lot of Success. And it's kind of interesting watching him apply. Hopefully, by the way, younger generations, if they're paying attention, leaning in, they are so much more sophisticated than previous generations. There's just so much information out there.

There really is. And they have us. I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm like my, my daughter and her husband's like personal, financial, everything. And so they're benefiting from that. And like their friends might be as successful successful, you know, with views, but because Zoe and Kelby are so tight with the money and so clear about what their goals are and what they're trying to achieve, they make more money, they keep more money and they're building wealth and have very, very clear wealth goals. And they're 27 years old.

It's an example. It's like if you're super intentional, you know, it's game changing. I mean, you have to be careful. There's also people. It's so funny. There's so much noise about like the crypto stuff and stuff like that, which ends up being, I mean, maybe some of it you should have a little exposure. But there's low intrinsic value. If you do the basic stuff of like saving and investing, you're going to have way better outcomes.

Yeah, we're pretty conservative around here. So my, I have a bit of crypto and it's really funny because my son is in college and he's learning about all these things and he'll send me notes like, I hope you sold all your crypto, Mom. That's really irresponsible for you to have it. He really is saying that. I'm like, honey, it's gonna be okay. I don't have that much. It's kind of like play money. Just that's all. I look at it for our oldest.

Son, he one day he's like, yeah, my fraternity brothers and I have started trading these things. They were all trading with each other, you know, but they own some Meme coin and they're like, yeah, it's worth 20,000. And then like two days later he's like, it's worth 40. And then it was like 80, 160. And then it was like, I have $600,000, right? This is, this is like a 20 year old, right? And I was like, you need to sell all this stuff. Oh my gosh. And then of course, it tanked. Their fraternity had like $10 million of one coin, but like they owned the market. So they basically were trading among. Like, there's a life lesson in volume Matters. Trading volume matters. Right. How much liquidity matters? And like, who's. Who's your counterparty? All these lessons and wow, I don't know. People think it's all. Just because one share of Google or Nvidia trades at whatever one price doesn't mean that the market's that deep. And if everyone starts selling as we're seeing now, things go up and they go down. Any final thoughts for folks based on your book and things you've learned on your own journey?

Yeah, you know something that came to me when I was prepping for this conversation that I don't know that I spend enough time thinking about, because many of us, maybe on the Bolden platform, are doing this on our own versus having some other folks, who knows? But I realized that having a personal investment policy would be really, really helpful. And I started getting into AI and kind of asking myself some questions, like, what would that look like? What should I be asking myself? Because especially in these times right now, things change, and it's good to revisit the strategy. It's good to make sure the risk and the goals and the management are all in alignment with each other. Because sometimes we do get it to a point where we're like, okay, everything's great, and then something changes and we might not go back and revisit it. And so that was just something that was coming to me as we came into this conversation. Because I don't know if Bolden, you guys write about those things, but sometimes inside the app, we might forget if we're using the app all the time.

Yeah, fair. No, I think that's important. We're definitely doing a bunch of work to try to help people be clear about their goals and align their activities and also show progress. Like right now, I kind of. Sometimes I think of our app is like Grand Theft Auto, but it really could be more. You can go anywhere you want, do lots of things, but really, could you make it more methodical for people so they can kind of see their progress? Like what you were saying about women or people in your groups recognizing that they are doing a good job. How do you know that? How do you benchmark and say, well, I'm actually pretty financially literate or I'm saving at a high rate. We did roll out these financial metrics and stuff like that, which is good. So there is that view, but just the progression versus your peers and your own security. Like making that kind of stuff obvious and calling it out to people, I think is important.

Yeah. I do have to say this and why? One of the reasons I love the app so much is it was the first time that I could ever not just have it be a mindset that I have enough, that I could actually feel it in my bones. I have enough. And I feel like that is one of the most beautiful statements anyone could ever say to themselves in the society that we live in. And I just don't know that that would have been possible without the app. I've learned how important it is for me to say, celebrate those moments of like, you're going to be okay. You've worked really hard. It's paid off.

Yep. There's this famous quote, I have enough. I got to find it now. Hold on one sec.

I think it was Kurt Vonnegut.

Kurt Vonnegut. Basically they were talking about how different people have different amounts of money. And he says, well, I have something he'll never have, the rich person, which is like, I have enough. Right. And knowing that. Right. Knowing that you have enough money and knowing how to also not screw it up once you get there, because you can also do that. We have to basically defend ourselves against our own bad habits.

Totally. I am always dealing with that because I am very comfortable with real estate, not as comfortable with the markets. And so when I have a whole bunch of cash, it's like, okay, what do I do with it? Those choices are never going to go away. I'm going to have to deal with that. And I'm navigating it and making sure that I'm making good decisions. Because, yeah, cash isn't always our friend.

Just as an aside, I was the same. I was an entrepreneur. I had a bunch of cash. Cash sitting in long term money buckets like retirement. I have all this risk in the company and then I just want to know that I have liquidity. And it was totally the wrong way to approach things. And I think we just have to be diversified. Right. It's like I have friends that are all in on real estate and they crush it. But I also think it's important to do both, have real estate, have some regular stock market investments, different kinds of things, if you can have that. Because these things are very often countercyclical. They don't behave the same way.

So I love diversification. That's a great way to end.

Lisa, this has been great. I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective and your stories about how you got here. And hopefully it's inspiring for our listeners. I will definitely link to your book the Mindful Millionaire and your website and your YouTube video, which is awesome. No, I appreciate the work you're doing. And I'm actually going to be up in Tahoe this weekend. So maybe at some point when you're in Tahoe next time, just let me know because we do, like, a ski lease up there and we'll. Because we try to bust up there on the weekends to go ski at Palisades and stuff like that.

That's awesome. Yeah, definitely.

All right. Thanks, Lisa.

Thank you.