PhD While Working Full-Time? Here's How I Did It

'Cause right now, I'm just thinking about graduation. That's where I'm at now. I've submitted the final dissertation. I had to get it, but final one to the grad school. So once I did that, I'm like, okay, now it's just graduation. So just getting prepared for that, trying to— I was just trying to get my invites and stuff together. So my study was a qualitative inquiry. So a narrative analysis. So it was a narrative analysis, the career success of Black women in C-suite positions in STEM organizations. Yeah, that's the gist of what the main dissertation was about. I didn't even think I was gonna do a Ph.D. I did my master's straight after undergrad. My undergrad was mechanical engineering, and then I went on straight through and got my master's in engineering management. And so I've been in the career, it was 19, 18 years into the industry itself. And so the opportunity presented itself to do a Ph.D., get tuition reimbursement. I was like, okay, well, let me work, maybe do this and do this route. And so I knew that there was challenges with me being an engineering, um, an under, you know, woman of color in the industry itself. And so when I saw the opportunity, I said, oh well, it has to be an online program. I said, let me make sure it's online because I'm working full-time. So that when I looked, I was like, okay, it has to online. So I looked for programs and I saw some that were in the Leadership Studies program at North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University. And then I said, okay, and it's the Leadership Studies, this is probably the route. I was doing engineering management, what's the route? So tied with my STEM, they had the curriculum where it could tie in with what my leadership and STEM. So I knew that's the route I wanted to go. And so, and then I also wanted to go to HBCU, historically Black college and university, because I went my undergrad at University of North Carolina at Charlotte for both undergrad and grad. And said, well, and my brother had graduated as well from North Carolina A&T. And so I said, well, my, the opportunities presented itself. I had Cousins that also graduated with their Ph.D.s from A&T, North Carolina A&T. So seeing that they did it, that was the kind of inspiration that I could do this too. And so that's what got me into it. And then seeing other people that also graduated from the same program was encouragement. And one of them actually did my letter of recommendation and was an inspiration anyway for it. So that's what got me into the program. I said, oh, okay, let me go ahead and get into school. I never thought I'd be going back to school, but the opportunity presented itself. And so I did make sure it was online opportunity as well as working full-time. So it was a part-time, partial part of it. As my mom tells me, do you even know what you signed up for, Tiffany? And I told her I really didn't. I did not know because I did not do the thesis route for my master's. I did all courses, so the writing part really kicked my butt. I was like, I don't know how to write. I did not— when it got to the dissertation part, because the beginning parts was like classes, straight just classes, and so you're with your cohort, you're with your classmates and everything too. But when you got to that dissertation game, what's the dissertation part? So I really, at that point, I didn't know because I was used to classes, you know, classes, classes, which was still tough because you had to then do a comp exam, which I would tell you I did a lot. I was traveling on top of that. I traveled at least a lot of places within my studies. For the most part, I was in Africa 2 times, Ghana 2 times. I probably went to Italy throughout this time frame, to Canada. I traveled some just in general. And coming back from the Africa trip, I was trying to be online with my cohort as we was trying to do the prepping, doing too much, and then still was able to get through the comp exam piece of it right afterwards. And it was a 2-week comp exam. I really did not know what I was walking into. And I mean, with the help of my advisor, yeah, I didn't know. And so now, looking back, It's some things I probably could have done better as far as understanding the process earlier, but wasn't until I really got into it that I really understood it. But trust in the process, and that's what I had to keep reminding myself. And my advisor kept telling me, stop trying to tell everybody when you graduate, because I started thinking, oh yeah, we got this plan of study, okay, I'm gonna do this, this, this, this, this. No, no, she— it was reality check. It was a reality check. And so yeah, that's the biggest thing is, um, trust the process. But no, you know, some of my cohorts, they graduated before me. And so you go at your own pace, and life is life., and I think that was the biggest piece I take away from where I am now. Yeah, and then I realized I didn't have to take as many for the dissertation writing part. I kind of did too much of the credit hours. That was my lessons learned too. I did not have to take that many credit hours for what I needed for the writing piece, and I think that was one of the things if I look back, I probably could have took one credit hour for one of the semesters because I kind of wasted some of the hours, and I think that was what I learned from that piece of it when I was at the writing piece of the dissertation. So yeah, that's, that's just the gist of it, but it was so much more in between for the most part. From beginning to no, I did not know what I was walking into to now, I get it, because once I did that defense, I realized, oh, I do know what I'm talking about. You are the expert. But it took getting to that point, doing the literature review, to the methodology. My methodology changed. Thought I was gonna do phenomenology but couldn't explain it. Advisor said, no, you do not know what you're talking about, so we're gonna switch this. So that was a whole year of— not to say a waste, but I didn't know what I was doing with it. So that changed up too, from changing to a narrative analysis. Um, but once I got it to the Brown and Clark, like, for me to even get to this point where I can even talk about references and citations, I never would have thought I'd be able to talk like that at the beginning. So yes, it's been— when they say you're a scholar, like, I get it now, um, on the other side of things, to be able to now understand the research process and be able to know now how to go about doing it and getting it and grabbing it, the citations. Because I mean, it was a lot of feedback. And another thing is also, um, trust the process and understand the feedback that's being given to you. It's a reason behind it. Don't be hard-headed, is what I said with the feedback. The faster I was able to follow up with that feedback with my advisor, because we had on the calendar every, um, biweekly meetings, like, I learned the process of just get it back to them. And then, yeah, it took some time to really grasp it, but that feedback is necessary to keep you getting to the next part of it. And so that was what I learned on the other side of things. I was within a year of just trying to justify this methodology as the chapter 3, and I really did not understand it. I was trying to do some research, trying to see the books, let me try to figure out how to do it and tie it in with my theory, and I just could not explain it. The phenomenological approach probably could have been it with the lived experiences. Me being an engineer, I'ma tell you, this qualitative was— I was— I would have probably understood quantitative because I didn't understand the numbers, but what I was studying, I had to interview these women. And so I had to choose the qualitative. It was the best way to do it. And so that's what got me was, okay, if this the route I have to go, but I got to be able to explain it. And so when my advisor, um, when my chair told me narrative approach, and she told me to use the Bronwen Clark, look at the thematic reflexive thematic analysis, the steps for it, I was like, oh, I get it now. And it's like it clicked. But I'm going tell you, it hurt. Like I said, a whole year I was trying to do this phenomenology methodology, and it just But I couldn't explain it. And you get to the point where you're like, okay, I can't even bluff anymore. Like, I'm wasting time. What do I need to do? And when she gave me that as an option, and then I was able to click and able to flow and then be able to now be able to use it, you know, once I was finished the proposal part of it and be in it with the interview part, and then it came together. Yeah, I think that's where it hurt. It hurt. And I still think back to it like, oh, I did a whole year of one method and then had to change it. But it was for the best. And then when you're saying I'm an expert on the end, when I did my defense, I can speak to it. It all came together full circle. So even if I had to wait a whole year of one thing method, I'd rather be able to be confident with it. And I think that's the biggest piece to speak on it than to not be confident. So I was able to speak on it, understand it, understand the process, and be able to do the work and get through faster. So yeah, it hurt. It hurt a lot. But to see the end results of it and be able to speak to it, I think that's the biggest part. Yeah, the chair and advisor, she's the best. She put up with me because my mind thinks about one. Oh, yeah. Yeah, let me think this way. And, you know, she, she was patient with me. Um, at the end of the day, she was patient with me because I wasn't getting it. I just was not understanding it. And I think she just kept it real with the reality check of it. Um, me and her, we had a great communication when we started getting on her calendar. Like, I saw the need for getting on her calendar biweekly, on the calendar, step by step for each of those chapters, each of the chapters, and where I was with it. I think that's what really helped me was to be able to get on her calendar. Let's talk about it. What I need to do? What's the next steps? What do I need to do? What— seeing the feedback, seeing all the markups, I mean, I just got used to it. At the end of the day, I knew it was getting me closer and closer to the next chapter. So, um, yeah, it was a learning process. It really was a learning process. And working with the chair, like I said, she was patient with me and she was working with me and she kept it real and honest with me. And I think that's the biggest piece, which I needed. And me going— I will say going to the HBCU with North Carolina A&T, it was excellent. So it's like a whole different vibe. I know I went to a different school, but I needed that guidance. And I think that's what I got out of this one. That's why it worked for me because of the advisor and the chair that I was with. I'm thankful for the one I had. She kept it real with me. She was like, let's be honest. She's like, you're the engineer. Like, let's do the math. And I'm just like, oh, really throw it in my face. But it was— that's what I needed. So, yeah, it was understanding, learning each other. She learning me and what approach worked for us to keep moving. I think that was the biggest piece of it. And staying in communication, emails and on our monthly or weekly call or biweekly calls. That really helped. So being on the calendar, which I needed that structure. Structure anyway. The literature review, chapter 2, probably was the hardest if you talk about chapters. Like I said, I've never written— like, I didn't do— I've never done the thesis route. I didn't do the writing. But to get all the pushback of, you need to go explain it, explain it, go find some more citations, go find some more citations. No, you need to explain it. It just was like, when does this stop? Uh, so yeah, the literature review was the— I think the hardest part that took the longest for me. Um, and that's the chapter 2 part of it. And once it got to the point where I guess you get saturation, where they're all starting to be the same, that's when I knew— that's when we knew was good to go. But yeah, that part was it. One more was, because my niche of, um, you know, being in STEM, science, technology, and math, um, organizations, and looking for women specifically, um, in C-suite positions, um, you know, Black women in it, was another part of the— in the recruiting part of it was a part of the other part of the challenge when it came to the interview part of it. But it helped. I used a lot of stuff, professional organizations, trying to look through that, um, who knew who. And that's the whole snowball effect of the sampling and trying to figure out, um, you know, where to go with that, the purposeful sampling, you know, from that end. So between the literature review and then the interview recruiting part, that was probably the toughest parts throughout that process that I would say. But it came together, um, survey-wise. I got the surveys, I got about 12 of them back. Of course, it's 100 and some as far as trying to get it out there, but narrow down to 12, you know, those that met the needs of it was, um, 11 out of there. Was able to do 7, um, which was the needed for the what I needed. So able to interview 7 for what I needed for the interviews and stuff. So, and it came together, some powerful women from chief CEOs to chief chief nursing officers, chief financial officer. Like, to be able to do that was a powerful experience. So definitely the recruiting part was tough, but once I got in it, it was worth it. Contacted organizations, of course the IRBs. I tried to stick with what they said because I was like, I'm not going back to amend anything, I don't want to do it. But there's some things I probably wish I could have did that I didn't realize I could have probably did, but I stuck to the IRB, whatever I said I was going to do. Um, but reached out to the organizations, um, National Society of Black Engineers, to Society of Women Engineers, and all that too, um, which followed up through the LinkedIn piece of it to be able to connect with others and who knew move and it ended up working from that end. I mean, it's a numbers game. I said I was gonna get 6, I ended up with 7, which was great. I met the need, but it wasn't easy. And then getting back with trying to get interviews set up, get them to do the consent forms, that's why I ended up with 7. But I mean, I've had 12 of them complete the survey. One of them didn't really meet the needs of it, so then that narrowed down it. But then getting consent forms and getting on their calendars, like, there was a CEO that I wanted really, and they filled out the survey, but we could not get on their calendar. And I just like, I gotta keep moving, like, I don't have time for this. This was during the summer. I'm like, I'm trying to move on. I didn't get IRB approval, and yeah, That whole once you get IRB and you're ready to do the interviews and recruiting, you're thinking it's going to be one thing, but the timeline is the timeline. And yeah, when you think it's one timeline, yeah, it could be different. But yeah, trying to coordinate with human beings is a different thing. Yeah. Quantitative versus qualitative is a— qualitative is a totally different ball game. And I realized that when you're dealing with people and humans as well with doing these interviews. And so yeah, it was a process, but like I said, it came together. Yeah, it's a numbers game. You got to get it out there, but still stick within the IRB approval with what I said I was going to do. So yes, they can do it, but you still got to get the paperwork part. That helped. Because who knew who, they was like, okay, well I know someone else. And so that really helped, especially in the environment, in the type of where I needed for the niche, for it to be STEM, science, technology, and math. I mean, I'm active with the National Society of Black Engineers. I'm a lifetime member of it. So it's like, okay, I know people. So you know people who know people. So it's like, help me, help me, 'cause you are a part of this organization, you already know. And that helped with the LinkedIn piece of it too. And then follow up. A lot of it was follow up. Getting in emails to talk to them and say, can you do this? And trying to, yeah, a lot of follow up for that whole process itself to make sure they were good with it. Okay, can you do this? And having a system in place. I had a spreadsheet, I had it outlined. Okay, who did I talk to? Like, all of those names, 100 and some, I had it outlined. Who did I talk to? Okay, what was their response? Like, it was a whole system involved with the whole recruiting part of it. You got to stay organized in some way. So I had to make sure, and then I said, well, which organization are they tied with? You know, when did I talk to them? Okay, they said they can't, let me highlight it. So it was a whole process to stay organized. I'm gonna tell you, to be honest, I had narrative at the very beginning, but I switched. So I should have stuck with my gut of what I knew, but then I said, oh, other people are doing phenomenology. I was looking at other dissertations. I love looking looking at everybody's dissertation, but then it's like, okay, which one works best for what I need to do for mine? And I think that's also good. So for me, I think really working with my chair advisor, who was also— that's what she does is narrative analysis anyway, so it worked out from her being a methodologist. Like, that was her method, so I should have stuck with that for the day one. But I will admit, switching different methodologies early on, I should have stuck with my gut with sticking to that because I had it that way. I think that was one that stood out. The RB, like, I probably could have did a flyer. I wish I could have did a flyer for another part of the process, but I didn't have that as one of the ways to do it. So yeah, there's There's other ways I think I probably could approach it for the recruiting part. I think maybe being more open to that, but still get the approval. But I was able to move forward with the, like I said, the snowball methodology. So that helped me to get that. But I think if I could have maybe had a flyer, that probably would help me get it out there from a recruiting standpoint. Those are some key ones. Yeah, I did have others that were on the committee that had other— they could do phenomenology, that was their thing. But by having my advisor chair who was specifically for that narrative analysis, it's like that helped when she told me, let's try this approach and that, and be able to talk to her. She saw it. Like, for me to come back with my theme of all the things that came out of it, She was so impressed. Like, my committee was so impressed because I was able to— I understood it. Now I'm gonna tell you, Chapter 4 with the findings, it was the longest section because it was all their stories and I had to narrow down. It was long, but I understood what I needed to do because I understood the methodology and the steps for the analysis. But that was the longest one because I had to tell their stories, then break them down to themes. I didn't know I'd be doing some coding, and it was just like— I'm telling you, I did not know what I was walking in. I really did not. But it came together and it made sense at the end of the day once I got through it. But yeah, once I was doing the things and the coding and breaking it down to the things and then narrowing down what they said, you know, transcribing it, you know, to then be able to do it, it's just amazing how it all came together. But I will say the findings was— it was a long chapter for me because it was a narrative analysis. But yeah, aligning with the chair that understood it, like, she was impressed. She was like, this is good, Tiffany, you did really good. So, um, it came together. Like I said, I work a full-time job, it's tough. This whole process timeline it took me to do this, there were some ups and downs in life. I was moving, I relocated, the environment where I was for working, and it was just a lot going on. So yeah, I had moments where I was just tired. It's a mental thing. Like, I will tell you, it's so mental. And then to hear that people don't— did not make it, it was just like, oh, I could see that. But I did not want to give up. I just— I was already deep in it. But I could see moments where people can give up, and I had those moments just because of the life I was going through, working full-time and making sure my work was where it needed to be, on top school. So yes, there was times, you know, I don't want to say give up, but I just needed to continue to push myself. There was moments where I needed to rest, and that self-care was important, cuz you know, I had times where it's like 1, 2 AM, I would get off work and be tired. So I was like, okay, let me take this nap, but I got to keep going and writing and stuff. So yeah, not necessarily give up, but just wanted to just take a break for moments. My mom, who's an educator, she just always encouraged me, God has not brought you this far to fail. So with me being in the field of engineering, trust me, when you talk about somebody won't give up, I mean, that was not easy in undergrad. And I'mma tell you what, Grace Ph.D. having A's. I'm like, I want all A's. They're like, how are you talking about A's, Tiffany? I was like, if you go back to undergrad, I never was talking about A's in them getting an engineering degree. So it's a whole different mindset when you talk about giving up. Like I said, it wasn't easy for me to get my engineering degree, to get the master's, so to get a Ph.D., I wasn't gonna give up to the point where I wasn't gonna keep going. And that's the— that was just my drive. But it wasn't easy. When they say what, only 2% or something like that gets Ph.D.s? I mean, now I'm in the 2%, and so I think that's what pushed me more to be like, okay, if it was easy, everybody would get a Ph.D. So, so yeah, there might have been moments where I might have needed to take a break, but the give up part, I just knew I had to keep going back to my why. So when you say, what, at the very beginning, why did I even decide? Because I knew the study that I was doing was for a reason. I didn't see much representation in the C-suite positions. This was my opportunity to be able to talk to women in those positions, and I got motivated. That interviews that I did with them, it was motivation for me, inspiring. Let me tell you, also doing those interviews, I had to be— the whole researcher's bias piece, I had to keep that in mind. So the reflective journaling, they talk about the triangulation of the interviews, the archival documents, and then journal I'm the only reflective one. That was important. I had to make sure I wrote down every time I interviewed them what were my thoughts so I wouldn't be biased, being calm on it when I'm interviewing them. So there was moments where, yeah, not giving up, but being inspired played a role with it too, because I was— I knew the work that I was doing was important. That the findings part, once I finished getting those interviews, that was tedious, but to see all of it coming together, the themes, the commonalities amongst all of them, I think that was my wake-up call that I'm almost there. I've now found what is it, and then being able to say, okay, well, what's some recommendations? What's some ways we can do better with it? And so I think that was the biggest pieces. It all came together once I got the interviews and was able to then generate the themes and come up with why it's happening with all of them and everything too. So yeah, I was at the end, chapter 4 or 5, and not even getting as much feedback. Like, I was like, wow, they gave me more comments and feedback at the proposal part, but the findings, they was impressed themselves. They was impressed with the interviews, the quotes that came from them. They said they're on the defense themselves, that yeah, we were surprised by them saying this and everything. But so yeah, that was my turning point once I realized what the commonalities and it all came together from the findings. I think that was my wake-up call for— yeah, but when I said, oh, this work is coming together, I didn't know how to talk about research like this. Yeah, my mindset wasn't on this. I'm used to taking classes. We take the classes, we take the classes, and they all were related to the leadership and everything too. But it wasn't until I had to get into the dissertation part where it hit home of the process. But it hit home once I got defense, and the defense, when I could defend it and say I'm an expert in it, I mean, that's what I think where the belief was, was like, wow, I can speak to this. I now can tell you the process of how to go about research. I now can publish additional articles. So that was the belief of it. Now, okay, I'm getting this published. I could get additional published articles out of this. And that's what my chair told me. She says, you do know you can't solve the world with this one dissertation. You can pull other things. Yeah, she kept it real with me. You can pull additional articles and journals and stuff from this. And so this is just the beginning. And so that's that belief piece. Well, at the beginning, I wouldn't think anything about this. So yeah, this is the belief afterwards is, oh wow, I can do more with this. That's what it's got me from that end. Now beforehand, I'm gonna also say I'm also a children's book author. I've written STEM children's books as well. I've written children's books. And so she was like, well, you've written books before. I was like, this is not the same. That's why I say my chair, I love her for being honest with me. I was like, this APA format is not the same as writing a children's book. Yeah, I've written books, published books, and all that stuff. But this process was a whole different mindset to now being able to now say, "Oh, I can publish articles based off of subjects and research that I've done." So now being on the other side, the belief is there even more. Let's talk about the day before defense. I was at my mom's place and she's like, "Okay, you need to run through what you're getting ready to defend." So I had to practice before then. Practice, practice, practice. She's like, "You're going to get this right." So, and then I tweaked it some more just to make sure. And I sent it out to a lot of people. I sent it out. It was a Zoom online defense. And I sent it out to family and friends. So I have a lot of family and friends. So a lot of people were on there. About 40 people. So I took a risk. I mean, it can go either way. I took a risk, but I did invite a lot of people. So yeah, of course Chair got on there, and then we got our committee members on there. And so I did my defense. Basically, the first beginning parts was chapters 1, 2, and 3, which was a proposal part that I already defended proposal-wise. So the goal was not to highlight that too much, maybe 10 minutes of that. I had a total of 30-35 minutes to speak. I talk fast, but I had to learn to slow down. A lot of it was making sure that I didn't gloss over it. Basically, defense was really for my committee for the most part, to try to make sure that they could pass me, but they had already heard that piece. So of course I just emphasized that piece a little bit, but then the main part was findings, the chapters 4 and 5, and the, you know, discussion piece. And so my emphasis was mainly themes. What was the themes? You know, my research participants, I use the pseudo names for them, just emphasizing that. And they could really feel it because of the themes. And then I would do their quotes from the participants for each of those themes. And then there were sub-themes that was with it too, so I highlighted that piece for each of the things. I had about 5 themes, total 14 sub-themes. And so went through those and then did the— that's the findings piece. And then went into the discussion and recommendations and implications and what came out of it for the most part. Once I was done, 30 minutes, then I was able to get questions from my committee members. I just was trying to get prepared. I didn't know what it was going to ask. It wasn't too bad. I did get stumped on the first go-round one, but it came around where I was just like, okay, I can answer this. I can think about what— because he just said the research that you did, you know, what I talked about recommendation-wise, how did you go about interview them and that thing. So I kind of got stumped on that a little bit of where he was trying to go with it, but I was able to answer it. A lot of the questions was, if you look back to when you started, where do you see yourself now? So those was kind of those type of questions, and I told about my journey of, you know, I didn't think— what you're doing right now, just interview, like that was one of those type of like when you look back to the beginning of your proposal, yeah, proposal start to now where you are. So that was kind of questions. And of course the researcher's bias one, one of the questions of how did you keep staying to par with not having that researcher's bias and stuff. They went and deliberated and family friends got on and then they came back after deliberation into the break room and said, congratulations, you passed, Dr. Tiffany Tichy. And that was it. I was just glad and thankful it made it through. It came together. It's still surreal. I think it takes an adjustment afterwards because, you know, saying the doctor part of it, the comma Ph.D. So I start trying to see where am I going to go next with it of the title itself because Industry-wise where I work, I'm not in like the academia, so we all still do first names at where I work. So, but I have changed the LinkedIn to the comma Ph.D. to my signature in the emails and stuff like that. But it is an adjustment after the defense. It's like, okay, and then graduation in between there. So I think I saw your accelerator, so I had went on and got that, but said, okay, let me do the accelerator piece of it just to get that 7-day one. Now I already signed up, like you said, for the free community, which was great because everybody's on the same page, everybody's trying to get to that next stage, and so the encouragement piece of it. But you also had different different talks. I would hop on when I could to the different talks, and so I was kind of like in between the part where I was about to defend, and I told Dr. Tippins, I'm like, I'm kind of already at the end, but I need some help with the defense part, get me prepared for that. So of course you had the template for how to prepare for your defense and stuff, so I looked through that. And then of course you had speakers talking about your Chapter 5 and Chapter 4, so I was kind of over in that piece of it. And so I would get on for that, for how to approach your defense, how to approach the Chapter 5 and 4. So I was in that stage. So having speakers and your workshops, those were helpful when y'all did those different talks and stuff. I would hop on and listen to that. It was encouraging, much needed. When you're in this environment, especially when you get to the dissertation phase, it can be lonely because your cohort's all in different phases. And so having a community where everybody's in different— trying to move to the next level, it's encouraging. I love the fact that you have the community. Like I said, I was at the tail end of it, but it didn't— it still was helpful. As far as graduation, I'm excited. I'm one who's like to celebrate. I mean, it's everybody that celebrate, but I do. I had my regalia when they said you can submit for your graduation application. I was like, really? Oh, okay, all right, well, I'm submitting and we're gonna work on this. Uh, so I'm ready. I'm so ready. I mean, I'm taking graduation photos, photography photographer, professional photographer, making sure I got pictures and announcements and stuff too. So I'm just excited to walk and get hooded. I mean, it takes you to the next level of that experience. As far as the level that this can take me, um, it varies. I mean, now it can take me to the academia, to teaching, to also the consulting side of things. Like I said, my focus is STEM related because I've written books and stuff too, but consulting side of things. So it can take me to different levels, you know. Industry-wise, I'm in engineering and everything too, so it's all related. I want to see growth with the study that I did. I can also publish articles. I've been in conferences. I'm gonna tell you, throughout that, I've challenged myself. Throughout, there was opportunities for me to do conferences, poster competitions, so I did that. So I'm gonna try to do another conference before— or symposiums, I've done those too. So that's my goal, to try to do some more of that, get the message out there about the work that I've done. With it being the C-suite leadership positions in STEM organizations and them being Black women, many of it was sponsorships. That's really how it helped them get to the next level, getting somebody to vouch for you. And they don't have to look like me or you. At the end of the day, sponsorship and having that opportunity for somebody vouch me. So a lot of them had that. One of the quotes was, "It's lonely at the top." So what do we do to try to get more representation? So that was one of the things that stood out. One of the recommendations was if we could check from when they started from their first career to where they are now, maybe watching the trajectory was one of the recommendations of maybe some further research to look into. So yeah, it's the sky's the limit on different things that this could approach, but yeah, that, that stood out to me. Like I said, I live it every day as an engineer and in leadership itself to see where there needs to be more, and just getting some of those from the study, I think it's going to be good as well. Trust process. Thing is, it is a process, and you got to go at your own pace. You know, don't compare yourself to others in your cohort or class. Life be life, man. So just stay encouraged, be encouraged. Find a cohort or group that you can stay connected with. I will say I stayed connected with the cohort that I started. Some of them, I mean, not everybody in my cohort, but we still had a GroupMe. So if you can connect with them, that'd be great. Get in the community as well. I think it's important if you can get some that's in, in the same boat. I think that's been helpful. But trust the process. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Like, if I can do it, I know others can do it. And yeah, just be encouraged. It's worth it at the end. So if you can keep going, set aside writing time, yeah, on your schedule. I think that's important. And self-care. I always say make sure you get some self-care in there too. Yeah, stay, stay strong and trust the process. I'm gonna keep saying that because it is a process. Like I said, I wouldn't have thought I'd be where I am, but I made it. And I'm sure y'all have seen so many, so