From Frozen Lockboxes to Tech Entrepreneur: Stephanie Jones on Thriving in Any Market | LeadingLane Podcast | Ep 110

So that brings me to what my big change. I never in my mid-50s thought I would be a tech entrepreneur, but.

But here you are.

I am. I am. And finding it so outside my comfort zone and so foreign and learning something new at any age, but certainly when you're my age, is a challenge, but it's been very gratifying. Welcome to the Leading Lane Podcast for Real Estate Pros by Real Estate Pros, with your hosts, Ashley Frederick and Stephen Burch. If you're looking for an honest, authentic, and raw perspective, you found it.

Welcome everyone, back to the Leading Lane podcast. We are excited to have our dear friend Stephanie Jones on the podcast today. Stephanie, for those that don't know you, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your market, and what real estate looks like in the up.

So I'm in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. It is the often forgotten from Maps section of Michigan on the north coast of America. Driving around, we see Lake Superior and appreciate its beauty every day. We live in an area of high snow. Right now we're about 50 inches above normal, so we're at almost, I think, 180, something like that. And there's a lot of it on the ground. So we tend to trudge through snowdrifts if we have to. My background, I have always been in sales. When I was a little kid, I sold my grandmother's shoes and jewelry and played store. When others played school or house, I played store. My mom had a retail clothing store in our town, so I did that, went away for a while, earned the right to come back. And I had friends who said, you know, you're showing this around Marquette. Why are you selling real estate? So 33 years ago, I started before there was an Internet, before there were cell phones, when we still had MLS books. So I've seen changes. The year I started with, the year Michigan implemented buyer agency. So that's always been a part of my playbook. And two years ago next month, I joined Ben Argo as a managing broker, co owner of Next Home Superior Living in Negaunee, Michigan. And we're killing it. Our market is. I just pulled stats a couple weeks ago, and in 2025, we sold half as many listings in the Upper Peninsula as we did in 2015. So we have, we have a market that's challenging. We list things and if I call it Goldilocks pricing, try and hit that perfect sweet spot of pricing. We list it and then we review all offers seven days later. So there are bidding wars, but there's a lot of Negotiation. And a lot of that work happens before we actually list something or before we actually have a buyer write something. So I'm finding consultations are. You have to. In order to educate the consumer as to what we do.

So I have to share this. Ashley, I think you and I were in New York, or we were summer. Maybe it was in Chicago, Remember where we were? We were somewhere in a. In a Uber. And you kept on talking about how Ben, your husband, Ben Frederick, was fishing in the up. And then he was texting me that he was fishing in the up spelled out up. And I was like, what. What is this up? What are we talking about? And you were like, what do you mean? And I was like, I have no clue what up means. And she like, no, it's you. P. Upper Peninsula. Get it together. And I was like, oh, all right. So it is absolutely beautiful up there. I just thought I'd share that little. I'm horrible with geography, apparently. So, Stephanie, you shared that you have a ton of freaking snow. How does that affect your listings and everything?

We just keep going. We work 12 months out of the year. We take faith that maybe the backyard is going to look okay. But the nice thing for buyers looking now is there's a lot of buyers that will enter in the spring market. So we might only have three offers, as opposed to something in May, might have 10. So there's some pluses and minuses. And people move all the time. So we work all the time, we felt this year. So if you're not familiar with the Upper Peninsula, we are very big hunting. There are schools that are closed on the first day of deer season. And for real estate, that's often kind of a pause where we can hone our systems, take a break, kind of catch up. And that pause didn't really happen this year. It just kept going. So on my chart of 30, 60, 90 in December, I had scheduled some time off, and I. I didn't get as much off as I wanted because we were busy.

Do you think that's a mindset thing that happened previously with you as far as, like, that slowdown, or is this something that you think has been affected across the board?

I think there's so few inventory, so it's kind of like you've got to strike when the iron's hot. And I am getting much better. After three decades of sharing business and not trying to do it all and. And scheduling vacations, there's two different types of people. There's people who take vacations and end up working the Whole time. And then trying to take that vacation where you put your phone away except for pictures. And I get two long weekends like that a year and try for longer, but when I try for longer, I end up working. You guys know, it's. It's something I take from you in that people say, it must be nice. And the response that I've learned is it is. But at the grocery store this week, the checkout clerk, who I've known forever, small town, she said, oh, you're going Caribbean or anywhere warm. You work so hard. You deserve it. And I went, wait, wait, wait. We never hear that. So it was nice to hear somebody else saying, you deserve a break.

It's hard. Yeah. The market can dictate, you know, how we take time off, what mindset we're at. It's. I think it's just hard for people to understand. Like, you have to. You have to move when the market is moving. And it's weird, right? Like some. Some properties. Some days, you know, we think it's like, I think last week when it was negative 50, I was for sure, like, no one's going to want to look at houses when it's negative 50. Sure enough, that's when they wanted to look. And we had frozen lock boxes and couldn't get into properties. And it was a whole situation.

Yep, it is. And then also on the flip side, on that beautiful, perfect 80 degree day, we can also play hooky. So we have to remember that as well. Yes.

Well, I will tell you, I was out the other day in our snowstorm. Definitely not like a snowstorm like you guys get up there, but everything was shut down. I think there's like 6 or 8 inches on the ground. And I have a buyer that we fell out of contract out of a different property. And she's like, hey, I really want to go look at this house. I was like, really like you right now. It. So luckily she loved it and we put it under contract, but I could not imagine doing that all the freaking time. And I will also tell you, I don't have the shoes for snow.

Well, yeah, yeah.

Or the mittens.

You don't have a weather issue. You don't have a weather issue. You have an equipment issue. You have the right coats, the right. You know, if that makes it easier.

I don't think I'm meant for the. Like that.

That's fine. All right, Stephanie, if we shift into some of real estate type things, what do you think is the biggest threat facing real estate right now?

Siloism, Tribalism I think one of our biggest gifts is our ability to collaborate. And I think real estate, as with the rest of our world is becoming so me versus them and of from a scarcity mindset instead of abundance. And I think that mindset is the most challenging thing we have to face. I tell my clients that one of the skills they're hiring me for is my ability to work with other agents and that part of my negotiating on their behalf started 33 years ago. There's only about five agents who probably shouldn't walk in front of my car and that's pretty over that.

Long noted.

That's good. So I know that there's, you know, we've talked a lot about, you know, some merges, there's some other types of changes. I think I saw something about homes.com the other day. It's just like an ever changing landscape. What do you think that agents should actually be focusing on instead of kind of all of the hearsay and all the unknowns.

Making themselves as educated on the process? I think we lost a little bit in the last easy market where agents came in and they didn't learn how to negotiate, they didn't learn how to structure multiple closings so that you don't have five domino houses that all have to close on the same day. That type of skill set is always going to be needed and everything else is just noise. I sold real estate before computers, I sold before cell phones. We all just do the work. And the work, no matter what is going around in the real estate ether, the work is dealing with people and, and the things that's moving them. And we do it through houses. But ultimately we are working with people and we can't forget that. And I tell new agents when I'm educating them, are you working in your business or are you working on your business? And you can get so deep into systems and tools and all the stuff we need and all the things that are going around. I'm reading 16 books on real estate process. You are working on your business. You're not calling three people and working in your business.

Do you think that the those types of agents that are, you know, working and constantly looking for things, they're in my opinion, I guess. And let me see if you agree. They're constantly looking for the next lead, the next thing to shiny object, right? Then they versus the back end items of how do you actually write out that contract properly? How do you do things differently to set yourself aside, not just get customers?

I do and I think there is this as Ashley said, shiny object, where are the leads going to come from? And that really is where we could see the biggest changes coming up. But if your leads are coming from the people you know, you aren't going to be beholden to what's being given to you. So I think that becomes very important. I listen to a podcast because I'm a little bit of a podcast junkie. And. And it's ACQ2. It's an interview podcast for the acquired podcast series, and it was with Jesse Cole. Hands down, every Realtor should listen to is all about customer service. He's like Walt Disney on Adderall when it comes to the consumer experience. And frankly, the consumer doesn't care what tools we have if we're not communicating the process and feeling like they're being heard. You know, one, I think that's so much. I think that's so much harder when your leads aren't. Aren't just being given to you. They're not your own organic. They're from any of the portals. You haven't built that relationship so that when you say, yes, there's going to be multiple offers. Yes, this is what you have to do to be aggressive. You haven't built up that trust.

Yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot of people that talk about your top 50 or your top 100. Right. Kind of depends on how long you've been in business. But it is really true. I think that if you can have that list of whatever that starts with your core 10 people, your core 25 people, if you really stay in tune with them and, you know, they see you as the expert or the one that they trust, that over time, like, that's just how that number gets bigger. And that's how those organic referrals happen, which to me are always easier to handle than an online lead because they've already been referred to you some for someone. So there's like that trust that's already been connected. So I think that if people can really hone in on their people and who they're meeting and connecting with and how you're staying in touch with them, it can really make an impact.

And the other thing you can do to build your business is to get involved. I have been involved with a National association of Realtors director. I'm on the RTAC Trustees for Michigan. I have been involved with committees at the national level. And I jokingly said I'm a upper yenta yupper is what the term for people who live in the up. And I get Calls all the time across the country from people who say, oh, I've got a referral for you. I'm like, no, you don't. You've got it for three hours away, but I'll send you, this is who you need. Making those connections is incredibly important. And the flip side of that is having those connections that are outside your market as a mastermind group. And it could be a text thread that is 70% memes and 30% of pulling each other out of ditches, but it's really, really important to get outside of your own echo chamber.

Agreed. It's like the fish in the tank, right? Like it can only grow so big with it in the tank.

Yep.

You know, Stephanie, you mentioned tools and not everything can be about tools, but obviously there are some tools that really do help us. And I know you are into some AI type things, so could you tell us what your two favorite IA tools are currently? AI. Did I say that right?

I'm, I'm, I'm pretty J Chat GPT. I go there mostly. I'll play a little with Gemini and then use the AI that's in some of the systems. But when we talk, you know, everyone is, what's your tech stack? What are you using? I think for me the one that changed my career was Google Calendar and I have I think 14 colors. It's all coordinated. But I was in high school, I was the square Hallmark calendar and my four color pen person. I've always needed that visual of colors and organization because that is not my greatest skill and the one that helps me with clients the most. So more front end is a Google add on called Folio. I think it's like 150 bucks a month. It is hands down, I think the biggest bang for my buck because it communicates the timeline with my clients so that I don't have to. I am striving to be an efficient agent. Notice the word choice. It's not what it used to be. And I want to not have to answer questions 17 times. The thing I need to do more of is video answers to questions we always get. And that's this year's goal list.

Awesome.

So one of the things that I noticed that you have done very consistently is posting, you know, either motivational tips in the morning or quotes or I mean you share every day consistently. Tell me about that, like what sparked that and then what are the reasons results from that that you've seen.

So I do six days a week, I take Sunday off and I tell my clients that I pretty much take Sunday off, unless I'm choosing to work and write an offer. So I establish that boundary from the beginning. Taking Sundays off was when I decided I was successful. But the motivations, it's really fascinating to me. They came from the rise and thrive with Neva and we were. I was coming up with my own motivations and then I just. I work with ChatGPT. It's hilarious to see some of them evolve. It's whatever's going on with me at the moment and I share them. I also created a page on Pinterest that has all the motivations I've done. So it's there and I'm coming up almost a year on them. It's been very interesting to me, the people that have come up and said, you don't know how much I needed to hear that. And they never liked it, they never showed it, but it's all about me. I'm not doing it for the effect, I'm doing it for the effect on me. It's whatever I'm working through in the moment. And it's been very positive to see that it's had an impact on other people. There is one that I did about women working together, and I think that one's been shared 20,000 times. Wow. I should have monetized that. But I'm very, very specific about them in that they don't have. They're not branded. They're only branded with an orange border because I want people to organically appreciate them. And when I see like it gets shared someone that I don't even know, I feel very positive.

And the reason why I bring that up is because, you know, we're talking about a lot of agents want to know how do I get the next lead to where here's something that doesn't cost you anything, right? Facebook ChatGPT. Yeah, you can upgrade if you want to, but that's a simple way that you can have consistent things posting and always out there because people are always watching. We've talked about that multiple times. And something that's so easy, but because you've been consistent with it, you're seeing way more results. Now people are organically having conversations, which it's easier to be able to have an organic conversation versus trying to pick up the phone and cold call and say, hi, do you want to buy a house? Right. So I think agents, a lot of time over, complicate what do I have to do for my systems? What do I have to do to be in front of people? It's something that simple.

I had an instructor years ago who said, let me preface this by saying in the up, we often are accused of having an accent, and often the term A will end up at the end of a sentence. So this instructor was saying, in your social media, in your outside, what you project to others life, you need the three A's or the three E's. And I the end said, I agree with you, I think you need an A too. And he says, well, of course, because you're from the up, eh? But his three E's were you should educate, entertain and enlighten. And my A is. And it has to be authentic to you. And I think that authenticity is what we're all striving for. And new agents, you get that by being out volunteering, serving on committees, going to your farmer's market, actually, as Ashley says, being the agent in the room and just being available for whatever questions may come and being seen as, you don't have to be a positive person. I'm not saying be a Pollyanna, be authentic to you, but be present.

Yes. You talk about involvement. So as you mentioned, you've been super involved in NAR and at the Michigan level. What made you want to step into that type of role?

Oh, I didn't know I wanted to. I was told I was voluntold that, you know, you should serve on a local board. And for the first time in almost 30 years, I'm not on that board anymore. Taking Lee Brown, you've got to train your replacements. I finally did, and they're at a leadership conference today that I could have gone to, but I'm like, they've got to do it without me. And having extreme FOMO getting texts from people, what do you mean you're not here? And like, it's kind of nice to be missed instead of taken for granted. But I stayed involved because I felt like there was a voice that was needed. And I learned that from Pat Coombs, who is a past Michigan president of National Association Realtors, who has sat with me on couches and been such a magnificent example of what leadership can be. And that I decided after doing the Michigan Leadership Realtors Leadership Academy. We read the book Start with why Again. Everyone should read that book. And what I thought my trajectory was going to be wasn't because my why is community kindness. My why is making my community the best it can possibly be. And I need to do that through volunteerism, tech projects and selling houses.

So why do you think that agents should look at being engaged instead of just Sitting on the sidelines.

Because that's how you get the best clients. And I think the consumer, whether they're ever going to be a client, respects your involvement and then you respect your involvement.

The other thing I tell people too is not necessarily real estate involved, but I had another organization that asked me to serve on their board recently and I, I didn't answer right away. I took some time to think about it but I decided to agree to be on the board. And part of that was because there are some things that I think needs some major improvement on that board. And I guess my thought process was I can't complain about it unless I'm willing to be part of the solution. So I think the same thing falls back to agents. They like to complain about industry standards or forms or other agents ethical things. But if we're not willing to step up and actually, you know, put your, put your mouth where your money is, then it's hard to complain about it if you're not doing anything to change it.

Yep, absolutely. So that brings me to what my big change. I never in my mid-50s thought I would be a tech entrepreneur, but.

But here you are.

I am, I am. And I'm finding it so outside my comfort zone and so foreign. And learning something new at any age, but certainly when you're my age is a challenge, but it's been very gratifying. I have a company called Kaither ID and my goal is to encapsulate and verify consumers identities through the real estate transaction. And it's a big hairy, audacious goal. I am in the process of pre seed million dollar fundraising which is talking to people that you never would think you'd be in a room with. But it started because I had two clients and these women are wonderful. They've been married longer than all of my marriages put together and they're just salt of the earth people. And we found their forever home. And the home was filled with religious iconography and they were so afraid that they were going to get discriminated against being two women buying a house. In the end the people were fantastic. But no one should have to ever have that fear. And so that's why I started Kytherid. We also want to mitigate discrimination, errors and fraud. I mean, are you getting the new email? My wife and I want to move to Marquette and we're looking for a qualified or exceptional agent. Please accept my FaceTime. No, I'm never going to accept your FaceTime. I need to verify you are who you are. And so I Want to make that simpler.

I think this is freaking phenomenal and I have this on my notes. But I didn't know if we were going to go this direction or not. So I'm excited that we're able to talk about this because this is something I think that will be extremely huge for this industry. There are so many different times and so many different scenarios that, you know, I know we all probably can give examples on where either the other agent or somebody interjected their feelings about who is a part of the transaction. Let it be about the other agent or let it about the buyers are. I know I have one specifically where they, the seller or me, the buyer asked me not to put their name on the contract. They were going to do cash and they went to the listing agent first and they emailed in and they wanted to be an anonymous about it. They wouldn't do it. The company wouldn't do it at all. They said, nope, we have to have proof of funds. We have to have this. We have to like they tried to go through all these hoops. Well then they came over to me and said, can we do this? Of course I'm going to write it up that way. Submit it. Another company didn't want to accept it. You have to present any and all offers. So this scenario right here would help eliminate that because on the contract it would be your kid, correct?

Yep.

Buyers names, you would have your actual ID number that is going to be listed as a name that shows that you are verified and true who you are. You know, I kind of look at it like on Facebook you have that blue check mark that looks. That's going to be a more legit account than this next one that doesn't have a blue check mark. So cool. And then on that my, my deal went through and it happened to be the sheriff's department that they bought their building through me with cash. And that other company was furious that they lost out on it. Discriminate and you're going to knock it down. You're going to lose opportunities and how.

Much time is wasted. Our agents and the consumers and all the ancillary players on addendums that I lovingly call underwriters. Subterranean moss covered gnomes with pus filled infected paper cuts. And they're the ones that are saying you need to do an addendum because it doesn't say Avenue or it doesn't say state highway or Butch's name is actually Andrew and. Or it has two legal descriptions because it's actually two lots. All of that would be encapsulated in data that's enclosed in Kaiser.

And really it's like, I mean, I don't want to say it's a Social Security number because we all know that that is not even going to be validated. Um, but it almost follows you, I mean this, this ID number continuously continues to build your portfolio, if you will, so that it does eliminate those different types of things. And just think of it from a perspective of, you know, title, right. Writing on there. Wouldn't you want like, if you're an underwriter, wouldn't you want to be able to have this to make sure that there's no errors and help eliminate those types of mistakes on cloud, on title titles or whatever else might be popping off. So I originally, it's over.

It's over 80 million in real estate fraud a year.

That's insane.

It's wild. I mean, and even people like you got to think to like common names, right? Like a John Smith or whatnot. Like we've had plenty of those issues that the wrong John Smith got tied to property. Right. And so I think having these numbers, which obviously it's different per John Smith would be super helpful. But I know that like land has been a really big fraud, you know, issue. I know that just as of January 1st, all the title companies here had changes as far as trying to do, you know, some fraud prevention. And so I think that it really is something that could be a game changer for the industry.

I think. So the worst I ever had with names and I was younger in the business so I didn't ask when I'm starting with a buyer, how are you holding title? What is your relationship together? I didn't ask those questions. I had a male and a female with the same last name and his name was Todd. There were young kids involved. I thought they were calling him dad, but they were actually saying Todd. And it turned out when we got the deed at closing that they were not a married couple. He was her ex brother in law. Interesting. And I oh, we're gonna have to redo this deed. But I didn't ask the right questions up front.

So I think of it from a safety perspective too. Like I don't think we talk about safety enough. I know there's a lot of different products that are out there that you can, you know, put through forewarn or searching, you know, to make sure that it matches their story, if you will. But being able to have that, you know, kid right up front. Here I am, I'm verified. Think of it from our perspective, like, how much? Not that you still can't. You don't need to be cautious of who you're meeting, but now you have some way more information on somebody than just an Internet lead coming into the system.

And for both sides of the transaction, whether there's an agent involved or not, they have that knowledge that they are encapsulated. So I just want to change the world and make it a better place for everyone.

Love it.

We're here for it.

I'm excited.

So if anyone has a spare million dollars to get me to beta how.

To win that lottery.

Interested in being beta? I'm in discussions with some angel investors, so we'll get there.

Good turn you on, man.

We're excited for it. So, Stephanie, what is a lesson that real estate has taught you the hard way?

Oh, I think that trusting my instincts was the hardest skill to hone. And I have never been. Not never. For 25 years, I have not been the stereotypical pop tart agent. I had one experience where I went and showed a house, and I have never felt so unsafe in my life. And I decided I'm never doing that again. So I always have worked with buyers as a client, relationship with a conversation, and trusting myself enough to do that has been the biggest lesson. And also knowing that I don't know everything, I'm still absolutely fine saying, let me get the answer to that.

I mean, every day I tell people, like, for however long we've all been in it, something will come up and I'll be like, how have we gone, like 15 years and this never happened? And I don't know, I'm going to have to make some phone calls. So it is literally like a never changing. And I think it's interesting because, you know, rightfully so. People, like, expect us to have all the answers, but also, like, some of these things are extremely random or haven't happened. So I. It is just trying to stay educated, but also just knowing that you can't have all the answers and being okay to ask questions. But you're right. I think trusting your gut, I think that that's come along too with just knowing maybe when your time isn't being valued. I think that's been one big thing, you know, just, it's okay to fire clients. That was probably a really good, tough lesson to learn. But, you know, then you hear, like, the horror stories after you let them go of what happened, and you're like, so glad I didn't have to deal with that.

I think too understanding As a professional that the consumer. Our clients don't know what we know. So where there may be a hiccup, I think being compassionate in your delivery and your explanation and not. I have seen agents do it where they just like, oh, this is gonna be fine. It's no big deal. Okay. But that dismisses them and you're not hearing them. So when you can take a client through a problem and they still respect you like you and feel valued, those are your stark rating. Fans.

Freaking love it. Okay, so to wrap it up, Ashley, you have some rapid fire questions.

Yes.

For Stephanie to answer.

Yes.

Are you ready, Stephanie?

Yeah.

Okay. Favorite thing about living in Marquette.

It's a small town, but it's got multiple industries. And I don't always know people everywhere I go, so there is a joy of discovery.

Least favorite thing about winter, besides potential snow removal, it's.

It's more just. It goes too long. March is a hard month, and I need to schedule more travel in March and April. Rookie move is to leave in January because it's still three more months. And that's the. That's the hardest thing. But, yeah, beautiful. I mean, sun is shining today, and that's all I really need. A good day is a sunny day. I don't look at the temperature.

Coffee or tea during a snowstorm.

Hot chocolate.

Ooh, I like that.

I am an anomaly. I do not drink coffee.

Neither do I.

And I really limited my caffeine consumption over the last couple years. Makes a difference.

One thing you wish every agent would stop doing immediately.

Making assumptions.

Make the ass.

Making an assumption that. Yep. Making the assumption that that email you sent was received and not sending the text. Making the assumption that there's nothing more you can be doing. A buyer's agent who does not communicate with a listing agent before they write an offer is making horrible assumptions. There could be things that you could do for your client that communication will help you win an offer. And listing agents not taking those calls, not communicating what is in the best interest for their client.

Assumptions 100%. One thing you're most excited about in real estate right now.

I think we're on a precipice. I think it is possible for change, and I think if we can get people's fear of change out of it. I am so appreciative that nationally, the buyer contract and the listing contract are both seen as equal client agreements. And treating ourselves like that is the next big hurdle. Like, everyone has to see that. And there'll be less poaching, there'll be Less anxiety. I think that's what I hope.

Along those lines. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Stephen, I have a question for you. What's your favorite favorite animal?

Oh, come on. Anyone who knows me knows this. I, for some crazy reason, I love sharks. I have cagedye with great white sharks. I have more shark shit than you can take.

Don't you have a tattoo?

Right here on my ankle. My son and I have matching shark teeth. Some of my bracelets I wear track sharks. I just love sharks. I think they're the most majestic creatures. Someday I will have a Megalodon too. That's like my sneaky goal of something stupid to buy.

Since you do your motivational quotes every day, what is one positive thought or reminder that you can leave everyone with with today?

Be Give yourself grace. Every single person has their perspective that's valid to them. And many people are coming from a place of fear and fears that we don't possibly understand. So give yourself grace and give grace to others.

Love it.

I love it.

That sounded way nicer than I am.

We really appreciate you being a part of our podcast today and obviously always love talking with you. You have an energy about you that is just contagious. So thank you for being inspiring and inspiring other people out there and making the impact that you are in the world.

Well, I adore you guys. I can't believe we've only been friends for a few years because having people like you to rely on as advocates and bounce things off of is what makes our profession phenomenal.

Well, thank you for listening to the Leading Lane podcast and tune in for the next one. We appreciate you guys.

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