Quadrant 4 of the Heroic Journey 2.0

Hello, and welcome to the StoryGrid podcast. This is a show dedicated to helping you become a better writer. I'm your host, Tim Grall, and I am a writer in the Storygrid universe. Joining me shortly is Sean Coyne. He is the creator of StoryGrid, the author of the book StoryGrid, and an editor with over 30 years experience. In this episode, we dive into quadrant four of the Heroic Journey 2.0. So we made a big error several months ago when we just kind of stopped recording for several months where we were talking about the Heroic Journey, and we talked about Quadrant one, Quadrant two, and Quadrant three, and then we never got to Quadrant four. And so we correct that error in this episode. So we talk a little bit about the heroic journey 2.0 overall, how that interacts, and how it's different from the storygrid trinity. And then we go through quadrant four of the heroic journey 2.0. So if you're one of the several people that have emailed us about the fact that we left you all hanging, I'm so sorry about that. We are correcting that error in this episode. Also, I just want to mention that our newest book at StoryGrid Publishing is out. Actually came out yesterday. It's the StoryGrid microscope. It's by StoryGrid certified editor Kimberly Kessler, and it's all about how to use the Story grid spreadsheet to analyze your novel or a masterwork. If you've ever tried to use the spreadsheet and struggled with how to actually fill out all of those columns, this is the book for you. So you can go to storygrid.com books and you can pick up your copy of the Story Microscope. Okay, so let's jump into this episode and talk about quadrant four of the heroic journey 2.0. So, Sean, back in December, we were working through the Heroic Journey 2.0, and then we just stopped recording for four or five months or whatever and then picked back up with the Trinity. And we had several people who were like, hey, you left me hanging. You talked about the first three quadrants of the RO Journey, but not the fourth. And so I thought it might be good to just jump in and give a quick, like, overview of Heroic Journey 2.0, and then talk about the fourth quadrant.

Okay, so let me just frame the concepts here. One of the things that came up, we've been working on sharing the Trinity seminar that's coming up in August, and one of the questions was, what's the difference between this Trinity stuff that you're talking about and the Heroic Journey 2.0 that you've already established. So, unfortunately, I hadn't really been very clear about that. So let me just clarify that right now, and then I'll get into the Heroic Journey 2.0. I'll give an overview, and then I'll get into the details of the fourth quadrant. Okay? So if you look at the big picture, the big picture of story structure is generally considered to be called the meta myth. And the meta myth is all that stuff that Carl Jung was talking about and Corbin and Paul Tillich and Joseph Campbell. And essentially, it's the individuation process that has been shared throughout time. So, like, for thousands of years, stories have been told, and people like Jung and Corbin, everybody, they examined all these stories, and then they said, well, what do all these stories have in common? Right? So they read them all, and then they picked out all the elements that were similar, and this is what has become the metamorph. And so Carl Jung came up with this idea of the individuation process, which is his conception of the meta myth. And then Joseph Campbell took that theory, which is very heady, very abstract, and people can get lost in it because you really have to put your thinking cap on to be able to follow it. So what Campbell did is that he took Jung and Corbin's kind of stuff, and he made it more practical. So he came up with the procedures of the Heroic Journey, or the Hero's Journey, right in his book the Hero with a Thousand Faces. So that's a great title, because what he's explaining is that there are thousands of heroic figures that all have the same function. So he came up with the Hero's Journey. And famously, George Lucas used that theory, I mean, that practice, to create Star Wars. So George Lucas talked to Joseph Campbell a lot, and he consulted with him to make sure that he was hitting all those heroes call, Hero's Journey, refusal of the call, all that stuff, which I'll get into for a second. So the reason why I'm explaining this, this is the meta myth. So it's the myth from which all stories sort of follow thematically and metaphorically throughout time. So a masterwork, for example, what we call masterworks at Story Grid, these follow the metamyth, and they metaphorically follow this heroic journey structure. What the heroic journey 2.0 is, is I've taken what Jung did, what Campbell did, what Corbin did, what Tillich did, and I've tried to synthesize so I could get rid of the archaic stuff, because my Fear is, is that we're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because there are a lot of archaic notions in Campbell's formulation of the heroic journey, it's not really matching what we experience today. So there's a lot of like colonialization, mythos and metaphor in there, like returning with the treasure after the hero goes to some other foreign place, steals the treasure and comes back home and shares it. So that's not really cool. It's not accurate for what Jung was talking about. It wasn't about a result oriented thing. Right. So people confuse Campbell. And I think Campbell was a little confused. Campbell made it a result. Right. The hero's journey for Campbell is like there's a result at the end where the hero returns with treasure for his or her people and everybody's happy. Whereas Jung was not talking about a result, he was talking about a process. So his process driven individuation process, he called it. The individuation process is about leveling up your growth. It's about becoming better than you were yesterday and constantly aspiring to higher levels of competency across all kinds of domains. So it's really about becoming a better person. Whereas Campbell's was more about getting a result and then. And then they lived happily ever after, sort of. Anyway, so that's the metamorph. Now what's the trinity? Okay, so we have the metamyth at the top and then we've got this thing that I call genre. Right. Underneath the metamath and genre are very specific domains of interest and value to us as Homo sapiens. Right. We value justice, we value getting along with other people, we value love, we value competence, all this. We've got like 12 genres, right? So that's underneath the metamyth. So it's sort of like you use the metamorph to guide you as you're creating a genre story, which is propositional, meaning you have a clear destination in mind. I'm going to write a crime story, so I'm going to use this propositional value and I'm going to show how it changes throughout the story.

Right.

So it's very like top down kind of thinking. Now underneath genre there's this stuff. Yeah, this is the stuff that's the trinity. Yeah. And the trinity comes from the participatory and perspectival experience of being a Homo sapiens. So it's not in your head. It's about the way you experience the world, literally the way you take in sensory information, the way you process it. And Then what you do about it, the connection between your processing and what the world is giving you. So the Trinity is very foundational. Okay, so we've got Trinity at the very bottom. Then we've got genre, and then we've got heroic journey 2.0. So that's sort of the sandwich.

Okay.

All right, so now we're going to talk about Heroic Journey 2.0 to pick up the fourth quadrant, which is what is the ending payoff in story grid terms. And so what happens in the fourth quadrant at the Heroic Journey 2.0? It's the time when the heroic figure now actualizes their transformational change that they've just experienced at the end of the third quadrant. Okay, so let me just briefly go over the four quadrants, and then I'll turn over the fourth again. So in the first quadrant of the heroic Journey, so we have things like the call to adventure. It's the beginning of the story. Right. So our heroic protagonist is called to adventure. And being a human being, being an avatar of a human being, that protagonist is going to do what we would do, which is refuse it. No, thank you. I'm good.

Right, right, exactly.

All right, so then what happens is that their usual way of behaving doesn't work so well, and people are getting. The environment is not giving them the. The validation that they usually get. So they have to face a choice. And this is the crisis at the beginning. Look. And so the choice is, do I go on this journey and satisfy the demands of the environment, or do I just stay here and not do anything? So it's sort of like this. This red pill, blue pill kind of idea. Right? So take the red pill and go on this journey and try and discover reality. Or you can take the blue pill and just be yourself. Now, obviously, this is a Heroic Journey story, so they always take the red pill. Right? Right. Yeah. And they are usually forced against their will to take the red pill.

Right.

Luke Skywalker is not really interested in going with Obi Wan Kenobi to save Princess Leia until there's a very nasty thing that happens. His family is killed, and he's like, geez, what am I going to do? I have to avenge the death of my family. And then he goes on. All right, so that's the crisis at the beginning, Hook. And then. And then they make the choice. That's the climax. Luke says, yes, I'll go with you, Obi Wan. And then they leave. Yeah, that's the first quadrant. And then the second quadrant is what happens after they Leave. And in the second quadrant, what happens is that things start to get really overwhelming for the protagonist. So they go into a brand new experience. There's so much information flying at them that their procedures, the things that they usually do to behave, to get what they want, start to fail. And they escalate in progression of failure. So they fail, fail, fail, until they hit a place which is called the midpoint climax, where nothing works for them anymore. Yeah. And so their engine of operating system in their minds is no longer working, so it crashes. So it's sort of this point of no return because now the engine of their procedures, the things that they do to get what they want, isn't working anymore and it's not going to work the way it once did. It's a point of no return. You can't not have knowledge. Right. Once you discover that you have, you've been living under falsity, you can't go back and believe that falsity.

Right, right.

Yeah, yeah. So that's why it's called the point of no return. Like I could believe I'm going to be a professional football player like I did when I was 14. Now I can't do that.

Right.

Because I'm 57. Right. I can't believe that falsity anymore. And when I discovered that I didn't have the skills to become a professional football player, shortly thereafter, it was a point of no return. Then I had to shift my frame of reference. Right. Yeah, yeah.

Once you finally see the truth that this isn't working anymore, then you're faced with like, okay, now what?

Yeah. It's kind of what I call terrible knowledge. Yeah. When what you thought was true and you've been building your life around that truth and you discover that it's not true, it's kind of a terrible knowledge situation because it completely undermines you. Which brings us to the third quadrant. Right.

I just turned 40. I'm facing that. Yeah.

So once you get the terrible knowledge at the midpoint climax in the Heroic Journey 2.0, then what happens is you go right down. The third quadrant is really about the fall into chaos. So the chaotic system is random. It doesn't appear to have any patterns whatsoever to it. Things happen willy nilly. And so the character, the heroic figure, falls into this well of chaos. It's sort of like when, when Gandalf is fighting the Balrog in Lord of the Rings and he thinks that he's slayed the Balrog. And then, you know, he famously gets that whip around his leg. And the Balrog pulls him off the edge.

Right.

And then Gandalf falls. That's thematically and metaphorically what happens to the protagonist at the midpoint climax. And the third quadrant is all about that descent. Okay, Right. Yeah. So it's about the blowing up of the operating system, of. Of the hero in the third quadrant until they get all the way down to the bottom of themselves, and they have what I call the existential crisis. And the existential crisis is this moment when the heroic figure comes to the bottom of themselves and asks themselves this question. What is the point of my existence? Yeah. I don't understand why I'm here when everything is chaotic and I have no control. So what is the point? Point? It's a very, very deep dive, very. To the very bottom of yourself. And the only way that you can have a new operating system is for the heroic figure to get all the way down to the bottom. So they hit that existential crisis, and what happens then is kind of what I call the noumenal event. And in the nouminal event, something occurs to them. A revelatory moment comes to them. It's like in the movie Rocky, the end of the third quadrant. Rocky is about to face Apollo Creed, and it's the night before the fight, and he looks, and there's no way he's going to beat Apollo Creed. He comes to that deep truth. Yeah. Right. And so he's like, I don't know what to do. There's no way I can win this fight. I'm gonna get destroyed. What's the point? Should I really fight this fight? And then he has a revelatory moment when he realizes, oh, well, who am I? What is my special sauce? And he discovers, oh, I'm a fighter. That's what I do. So I can take a beating. And so that's what the revelatory moment for Rocky is like. I don't have to win the fight. I just have to last 15 rounds. And it's a beautiful moment because. Yeah, it's not about the result. It's just the process. I have to keep fighting until the final bell.

Right.

That's my job. And it's a beautiful metaphor for life. Right? That's what we have to do. We have to keep fighting until the final bell. All right, so then now we're getting into the ending payoff. So the end of the third quadrant, the heroic figure understands themselves, and they have a new operating system. Right. And the new operating system is just keep fighting for Rocky.

Right? Yeah.

Just hang in there, take your beating, give as good as you get as the best you can, and hang in there until the final bell. You're not going to win. Win? What does that mean? Anyway, all right, so now we get into the ending payoff. And so what happens is now the heroic figure operationalizes that new operating system, meaning they proceduralize their new thinking. So Rocky goes into the fight and he's like, my job is to survive. So he's not worried about winning. And guess what happens at the very beginning of the ending payoff of Rocky? He hits Apollo Creed in a very vulnerable place and he knocks him down.

Yeah.

And he can't believe it.

Right. But then, so there's this beautiful moment at the. That's the inciting incident of the ending payoff of Rocky, which is the big fight, right. It's a performance story. So that's the inciting incident. And then, then he really takes his beating because now he's woken the giant. And Apollo Creed is not a wimp. Apollo Creed is far more powerful than Rocky. He has far more skills than Rocky. So the first stage of this ending payoff is called no holds barred drop down bubble up of super call to adventure. Now that's a very, very long phrase. Yeah. But it just means a similar thing that happened at the beginning hook that started this journey emerges at the ending payoff. So the beginning hook of Rocky is he gets the call to adventure. Come fight Apollo Creed.

Right.

And so now in the ending payoff, the call to adventure is now you're fighting him. Yeah. Right. So it's, it's just an escalation of the original inciting incident. And so that's what I mean. No holds barred. Now he's like, he's not confused. Yeah, he's full bore. I'm on my call to adventure. I've got a plan. I've got an operating system. I believe in myself. I've got the skills to do this. I'm just going to survive this fight. So it's no holds barred. He's not constraining himself. He's not constraining his agency at this point. He feels, at one, he feels like he's on a mission. So he's operationalizing this new revelatory understanding of him himself. Okay. Then after that, bang, bang, bang. The second is the acceptance of the inevitability of loss. So what that means is that the heroic figure.

They go into the ending payoff and they think, hey, it's going to be cool. I'm just going to do My thing. And we'll see what happens. Yeah. But guess what happens is there's always loss associated with. With the dissolution of an old thing. Rocky gets a lot of physical loss, right. He gets beaten to a pulp. Yeah. So he loses eyesight, right? Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right. He loses his eyesight. Yeah. And so he could have quit, Right. Hey, I can't see. I've lost my eyesight. But no. What does he do? He's like, I'm doubling down, man. I've accepted that I might never see again, but cut my eye open. I'm starting to get emotional because I need to keep fighting. I made a pledge. I have an ethos that says, I'm going to go to the end.

Yeah.

And so I'll sacrifice my eye in order to continue this fight. And he does. And then what happens is that the big thing at the end is. Is the crisis, is the net calculation which results in a greater amount of agency and which captures the greatest amount of agency. So it's the heroic figure reaches a crisis. And it's just what I explained. Right. So the crisis for Rocky is if I continue to fight, I might lose my eyesight. That could really constrain my ability to be an agentic figure in the future. Right? Yeah. So I'm basically losing a big part of my body. For what? Is this sacrifice worth it? So he's doing a net agency calculation, and he's going beyond himself at this point. So he's thinking. He's not literally thinking this because he's in the middle of the fight, but thematically, in terms of heroic journey, this is the big idea here. He's thinking to himself, if I quit this fight, then I can save some of my agency and nobody will be upset about it. But he doesn't make that choice. Instead, he. He makes a calculation that says, but if I can survive, that will make me much larger than I was before I started this fight. I am going to grow. And then thematically, all of the people watching Rocky on that stage, watching him fight, watching him sacrifice his eye to continue the fight, what does that do? That becomes a symbolic representation of the heroic way of being, such that when they face a similar problem in their lives, they might say to themselves, what would Rocky Balboa do in this situation? Yeah. Yeah. Would he sacrifice a little bit of his agency to make other people agentic figures? Yeah, he would. So that's the big moment in the story. He gets cut. That's the release. He releases his gift to the world in that moment. It's painful. Now, the counter is the anti heroic figure doesn't. But what's beautiful about Rocky is that Apollo Creed has a transformation simultaneous with Rocky in that final battle. Right. So Apollo Creed is sort of the anti heroic sort of antagonist throughout the story, but what happens is that he has a transformation in the fight, and at the end, Rocky and Apollo Creed hug. Now, Carl Jung would say that's the integration of shadow. Oh, right.

Yeah. You know, I watch UFC sporadically with my kids, and sometimes Candace, my wife, is in the room and she's like, I don't understand how after they, like, they're all bloody, you know? And. Well, and even in this last UFC match, a guy broke his arm. Like, the one guy broke the other guy's arm, and that's how the match ended. And at the end of the fight, the guy with the broken arm went over and like, hugged the guy that just broke his arm with his good arm, his one good arm, and, like, told him he had a great fight. And they stood there together at the end, and Candace is always like, how.

Do they do that?

Like, they just beat the shit out of each other for five rounds, and then at the end, it's like they're hugging.

Yeah. The way I would say that is the reason why people are attracted to those kinds of really, life and death choices is because they ascend to a spiritual realm. Because the body starts turning off pain. Right. When you're in a physical conflict, your body doesn't even really process the pain. You feel the pain later, of course. Yeah. But in the moment, your body is just trying to pay attention to the horizon of intelligibility in the fight. And so you can't really give energy to the pain mechanism. So at the end of the fight, they are both so spiritually transcendent. Like, that guy's never going to forget that fight. And UFC fans won't either.

Right.

So this is the ending payoff. And you can see how it can produce catharsis because the heroic figure is literally sacrificing their agentic being in the service of expanding agency for the species. When you do this in this story, extraordinarily well, and it's a masterwork, then the avatar becomes a representative symbol that strangers that you've never met place inside of their minds and use as aspirational figures to model their behavior on. Yeah. So this is the importance of stories, Right. So the better we can create these stories such that this heroic journey is really, really perfectly pitch. Perfectly signaled. And then we get symbolic representations of the avatars in those stories in the minds of other people. Then people will start referring to that model of symbol when they start facing challenges in real life, in their own lives. It's like that famous thing, what would Jesus do? Yeah. That's an internalization so that you can refer to a sage, right. Who will give you advice through their motions that they performed in real life or in fictional life. So you see, like, how that's meta mythic. Right?

Right.

It's the big story of what, having a meaningful life, pursuing growth of yourself across multiple domains and sacrificing illusion and power and just kind of dumb ideas so that you can gain agency. And as you're gaining agency, you can become a symbolic representation for other people, and they can go, I don't know if I want to start a business. Let me read this book by Tim Grohl called Running Down a Dream. And you don't lie in that book. You're like, here's the cold, hard truth of starting your own business. Right, Right. So that. I mean, that's how we wrote that book. I'm like, you can't lie to the people and tell them it's easy, and the best way to tell the truth is to tell the truth. And you're like, really? I've got to do that? And you did. And people just really love that book because you're not lying to them. Right. So you see how the Heroic Journey is a metamyth that goes beyond categories of genre, categories of nonfiction, and it's actually a really great thing to use in your own life. That was Jung's point. And what Tillich did is he said, once you get your individuation stuff going right, once you start leveling up your cognitive capabilities and your physical capabilities and your spiritual capabilities, now what you got to do is do that in the world, Participate in the world. So you've got individuation, then you've got participation so that other people can map themselves onto that process. So the ending payoff of the heroic journey is the actuality of participatory procedural movements in the world. So walking the walk. Yeah, not talking the talk, literally walking the walk in participation in the arena. So that's why Rocky's so good, because it's literally a fighting arena. So you got to get in the arena and do your thing. Once you have your revelatory moment of after you hit the bottom, like, you didn't quit, when, you know, you had people knocking on the door saying, hey, you owe us money, did you quit. You wanted to. Yeah, but you, you sort of like, well, I'm not a quitter. Right? Like, you hit that moment, you're like, well, I just can't quit. So I'm just gonna keep. I'm gonna just dig myself out of this as best as I can and I'm gonna focus on the things I can control. And then you iterated that in the world and now you're, you know how to run a business and it's not like a big deal to you like it was before.

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