The Achieve Podcast - Kyle Wiggs (UX Wealth Partners)

Welcome to another episode of the Achieve Podcast, the show where we highlight leaders, creators, and entrepreneurs who are building meaningful businesses, shaping their industries, and having an impact. I'm Taylor Baker Baker, your host, and today we're excited to have Kyle Wiggins, the CEO of UX Wealth Partners, and you can find them at uxwp.com. Also RiskDNA. So Kyle, give us the backstory. You've got several businesses and organizations you're working with and own that are bringing together and weaving together. How did you get into the space and who are you currently serving?

Yeah, Taylor, thanks for having me. It's super awesome to be here. I— so I got in the industry by accident, honestly. I got into it in sales really as an internal wholesaler back in 2005, kind of worked my way through becoming an external wholesaler and really understanding the business. And I supported advisors all across the country. Independence, wirehouses, like you name it. And my job was to sit across the table from them and take their feedback and take their feedback to management and have these discussions about like what people actually want. And so I did that for about a decade and then the DOL ruling sort of came in and it was all about the best interest contract. And so I was running a wealth management platform that was owned by an insurance company. We had 4,000 advisors across the country, and I would sit in meetings literally every day and say like, hey, this is what the advisors want. And the answer was always no. I was like, well, but, but, but why? And it was always, well, compliance said X or legal said Y. And that was a really sort of eye-opening experience for me. Um, the company that I was working for sold to LPL Financial, publicly traded, in 2017. And after that, I was like, I'm done. I am going to figure out a way to go understand technology and bring it to financial advisors to help their clients. And so I sort of found myself in this dark web of AI and finance. I know it's all in vogue today, but this was back in 2017, 2018. Wow. And I'm getting introduced to professors that were leading quantitative finance departments at universities across the country. And I said, why haven't you told this story to the rest of the world? And then they sort of said, well, the finance industry doesn't want want to hear this story. I was like, I can help you. And so I would literally take their stuff and I'd go around the country. And what I found is this: the institutions, they were right, they didn't want to hear about it, but the advisors did. And so I raised a couple of billion dollars. And along that journey, the advisors would call me and say, Kyle, this is great, I need help, I need to trade it and bill on it and report on it. And like all these things. And the products that I have today Honestly, they just don't sort of keep up with what you're giving us. And so we decided in 2020— great timing with COVID— we decided to build UX Wealth. And the idea is it's a cloud-native solution where we do everything that the advisor honestly has to do but probably shouldn't do— trading, billing, reporting, model management, all these things that like sort of take time and add risk. We said, hey, we're going to take those away from you. So we built that. We launched that in 2020. You know, we've grown it, we've learned a lot and taken feedback from advisors. We're not perfect. We've made some mistakes along the way and, and we get better every day. And then along that journey, I launched RiskDNA. It actually goes live April 1st and it's not a joke. And the idea is, listen, these advisors are spending a fortune on technologies that actually don't speak to each other. And the analogy I'd give you, Taylor, is 10 years ago, presumably you lived somewhere where you had a remote for the TV and a remote for the cable box and a remote for, you know, the stereo and all the things. And it was like, well, which one works? And the batteries died and it was maddening. And this is what advisors face today. Like, I have great respect for Michael Kitces. He puts out this map. But the reality is, if you ask 100 advisors they have no idea how these technologies work together. So the idea behind RiskDNA is to bring together a CRM, financial planning, income planning, annuity planning, and risk assessment along with an M&A marketplace. And then because it's native inside of UX Wealth, we can execute the trades and run the billing and do the reporting. So it's been quite the journey. Um, I've, I've aged quite a bit, but Here we are.

Wow, that is quite the story and so valuable. And I love your analogy with the remotes. We've all faced that. Now, how big is the team in the organization right now?

So it depends on which organization you sort of talk about. Um, so UX Wealth actually is not massive, and that was by design. I said we want to go after 500 RIAs And we want to treat them as, as if we are the DNA of their business. And so when we built it, we built technology that's very scalable. So the team is roughly a couple dozen people today, not massive, but we can actually scale, you know, 10 times what we are. And the reason we can do that is because the technology, as we're all seeing every day, has become so great. And so that's what we're working through. So we've got What I would describe is like, if you saw my office, we've got multiple sort of teams of agents, but they all report to people. And so, you know, we've basically designed a technology company that I think if you were to go back 10 years is probably 200 to 300 people, but we're doing it with 12.

Wow, that's impressive. That's unreal. Now, looking back for you personally, what turning points, positive or negative, have molded the way you think about running the organization?

Well, one of the big ones is where we started. I mean, I'm not— I have great respect for where— what I would say I grew up in the industry, but it was also a source of frustration. So I sat on, um, this company that I worked for, um, I sat on the Leaders Council, and the job of Leaders Council was to go around to every one of the wholesalers in the company and the advisors that use the company and take their feedback and try to make the product better. And I'll never forget, I actually quit. We were at a retreat, it was a Leaders Council meeting in San Francisco, uh, it was probably 2012, and I was the guy tasked with like the next generation of the company. And what we were building was not what the advisors were asking for. And I was like, I quit. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna lie to the advisor. Listen, I make mistakes. Our company makes mistakes. The one thing we won't do is we're not going to lie to you. We're not going to, you know, sort of hide behind sort of our mistakes. And so that was one of the moments in my life that really defined my, I would say, career. I thought, I don't care how much money I make, I'm going to stand behind whatever we do. And so I left there. I would say that honestly, Taylor Baker Baker is probably the biggest one. There's others, but that to me is a moment that I can tell you where I was, when it was, and who I was with. I remember at the time I was married and I came home, I told my ex-wife, I was like, I quit. And I had a job that paid me well, and I was home every night. And I honestly played golf like 3 days a week. And she's like, you're out of your mind. And I said, I can't do it anymore. I don't care what it takes. I want to do something that I can stand behind. And so I would say that was probably the turning point.

Wow, that says a lot, a lot to unpack there. Now, as you guys try to grow and expand, what have been the biggest bottlenecks or obstacles that keep showing up?

Uh, the industry. So we're not going to talk about this today, but I'm involved— I, I made an investment in a company called Thor Financial Technologies. And Thor, if you look them up today, two great ETFs, THLV and THIR. They're don't quote me on this, but they're two of the better ETFs in their categories. Like, we're talking top 10. And we keep getting demand from a particular broker-dealer, which I will not name. And we went to them and we said, hey, we have this great product, we want to give it to your advisors. How can we partner to help your advisors help their clients? And they went away. We didn't hear anything for like 45 days. And they came back and they said, You have to have at least $1 billion and you have to have a 30-year track record. So what's wrong with finance is that it is, it's the old boys club. It's so afraid of change because the people that are in control are making so much money that they don't actually want to embrace it. And I sit there and I say to myself, well, how do you ever get better if you don't embrace new ideas? And it just honestly, Taylor Baker Baker, won't— the industry won't do it. You have to have this track record, you have to have these assets. Well, which is— which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Yeah.

So if you have new technology, look at every other industry not named finance. They're using technology to break down barriers that honestly need to be broken down. And for me, the bottleneck is the stodgy old, this is how we, how we have always done it sort of mentality that, you know, I've got partners and they're like, why don't we go after XYZ broker-dealer? And I'm like, because it's going to take 2 years. They're going to ask you for a million-dollar check and you're not going to get anywhere. And that's what's wrong with finance.

I can see that.

Well, if I Can I add one more thing to that?

Please.

For those listening, I'll tell you what the risk for the industry is. The risk for the industry is you can't have it both ways. You cannot tell everyone you have to have all of these things in order to get on our platform and then also get upset with companies that go direct to consumer. Because here's what's happening: good companies with good technology are like, look, dude, if you're gonna hold me hostage for 2 years and a million dollars. I'm going to go direct to the consumer, but I'm trying to help you. And I think that is the risk that our industry runs.

I like that distinction. Good companies with good technology going straight to consumer. Now, when it comes to your messaging, your outreach, your marketing systems, what have you found that's been working well, and where are you seeing the gaps and frustrations?

So what's working well is that a company our size today, we don't have red tape. So what do we do? We try everything. We break a lot of things, we make a lot of mistakes. Sometimes we post things online that we're like, ah, we should pull that back, and we figure out like, well, how did that get through? What's working is the technologies that you're hearing about every day. Here's the problem with, I think, most of business is that most people are using AI today to like replace Google. It can do so much more than that, and most people honestly have no clue as to what's coming. If you listen to the Anthropic CEO, he was on Fox, uh, about a month ago. He said he predicts unemployment to be 15 to 25% in the next 1 to 3 years. I think it's going to be higher and I think it's going to come sooner. So what's working for us is because we don't have red tape and because we're willing to like break a few eggs along the journey, we are trying everything. And what we're learning is data access and speed to market. And so we're using these tools that if I was back in a prior life a decade ago, it would take probably 2 years and a couple hundred meetings to sort of discuss whether or not we could even go forward.

Yeah. Wow. Now, with all this talk around AI, what are some of the ways that you're using it internally?

I mean, it's a— that's a loaded question. I don't think we have enough time. So, uh, how are we using it? So, I mean, you name it— calendar management, email management, um, product development. So Here's what's tricky about AI, and I think a lot of people are afraid of it. AI is one of those tools where it can get you to the 5-yard line, but great people have to get you into the end zone.

I like that.

So where are you— where are we using it? We're using it to like test everything, every idea, thought, strategy. We're gonna break all of it, but then we're gonna use humans, get it into the end zone. And not every drive leads to a touchdown, but we're willing to take the shot. So we're using it in every aspect we can, from product development to, uh, client outreach to internal analysis to— over a weekend I replaced QuickBooks. We're done. Like, done with QuickBooks, done with Outsource Controller, like, done with all of it. So we're using it in every aspect. Honestly, Taylor, we don't have time to get into all of it, but I think the trick is you have to be willing to jump into the deep end. You need to educate yourself on what works and what doesn't. You have to put the time and the resources behind it, but then you have to have great people to get it over the finish line.

I love that analogy. That is, that's a very beautiful Pointing at one. It'll get you to the 5-yard line, but it takes great people. It doesn't replace it. That's, that's phenomenal. I love that.

Wow.

Now, when you think about the next stage, Kyle, of the business, what are you most excited about?

Oh man, um, I guess I'm just going to tell you what I'm thinking. It, it's, it's sort of— in my head it sounds cliché, but the unknown. The— so do you remember when the internet launched? Yeah, it was a big deal, right?

Yeah.

But yes, that was a big deal. What's happening today, in my humble opinion, is we are launching the internet every hour. What's happening is so big and so disruptive and so massive and so capable We are not going to recognize the world in 5 years, let alone 50. What I'm excited about is to be a part of that. We have built a culture of yes, excuse my language, but like, fuck it, yeah, let's try it, let's do it, we got this, like, we can do this. That to me is what I'm get— what gets me up in the morning. And I'm, you know, if you talk to the people that know me the best, they're like do you ever sleep now? 2 years ago I was like, God, I need more sleep. Now I'm like, let's go, let's roll, because what's happening is so disruptive and so fast. I don't think people appreciate it. So what I'm most excited about, to answer your question, how do good people take new tools to create better outcomes?

Ooh, say that one more time.

That's the mission that I am hell-bent on solving.

I love that. That's good. Now, for you, when you look at your own journey, the wins, the mistakes, what stands out to you? What do you wish you understood sooner?

Uh, the biggest mistake I ever made was outsourcing technology. We've lost clients. Listen, I mean, uh, I'll sit in front of you and tell you we made mistakes in the last year and a half. The biggest mistake I ever made was not believing that we could do it. I listened to a podcast, um, on like 2 times because it was so long, but it was, it was a podcast with Elon Musk, and he said, in effect, if I could boil down 2 hours, it was control everything, make mistakes, like take responsibility, but like be in control of your own destiny. The biggest mistake that I made was thinking that we couldn't do what we needed. So what did we do? We did what the industry does. Well, we hired this big giant international firm to build this tech. Nobody knows what you do as well as you know what you do. And I lost personal friends as clients over it. And I will never ever make that mistake again. That to me is the biggest takeaway of the last couple of years of technology and innovation is you can do it. You need to do it on yourself first. You need to understand what you're doing and then you need to bring it to market. And that to me is, I mean, we spent millions on outsourced tech development where we're moving very fast to replace almost all of it within a matter of months.

The speed at which change is happening. Is astronomical.

It is. Wow. Wow.

So Kyle, last question. If you had to pick one constraint to focus on and solve over the next 90 days, what would it be?

One constraint? That's a good question. Um, I think the biggest constraint for me to solve— you and I have gotten to know each other, you sort of gotten to know my background. There's only two people that understand in my world. There's a lot of people that understand, but in my world, two people understand what's going on at the pace that it's going on: myself and my one of my business partners, Brad Roth. I'd say the constraint that I would love to solve is to empower the people that I work with to understand you're not going to be replaced. We have these tools now that can send us from where we are to where we want to go, and it can do it in a speed that you never even imagined. And so I think the constraint that I would want to overcome is the, uh, doubt. How do we help people and empower people to believe in themselves and give them the tools to do things that they at no point in their life ever believed they could do? That's the constraint that I'm trying to figure out how to solve.

Wow, that is quite the mission and much needed because there's a lot of insecurity, a lot of concern around replacement. And I love that— empower them, like, be the owner of your own destiny.

Unfortunately, there is this sort of undercurrent of man versus machine, woman versus machine. I I think we're missing it. I think it's man and machine, right? It's this idea that we have been given this gift of these tools that I never even dreamt of. Like, honestly, as a startup a couple of years ago, and as a— what I would describe as a, you know, younger company in a pretty established industry being finance— I can go toe-to-toe today with the boys that have raised $200 million. I can do it. We are doing it. 2 years ago, I couldn't do that. That is a superpower that if people understood, they wouldn't be afraid of, they would embrace.

That's impressive. That's— yes, that's a beautiful mission. If they understood that, they wouldn't be afraid. Because yeah, AI just compounds these skills that you have.

Like, you can— I'll leave you with this: AI is only as good as what you give it.

Yes.

So it, it becomes an extension of you. So one of the very first things I did was I downloaded every text, every email, every everything, and I gave it to a few different systems, and I said Lark, tell me what you know about me. And it came back and said, well, you're no-nonsense. You don't say hi, you don't say goodbye, you don't use exclamation points, you don't say have a good weekend. You say thank you, period. It's an extension of who we are as people. Could I get better as a person? 100%. I get told that by people all day. But AI is there to help you become better, to amplify who you are and what your potential is. It's not there to take your place. And I think as soon as people get on board with that, we got something.

Wow, so many nuggets. Kyle, thank you for coming on and sharing your wisdom, your insight, sharing light on the real potential of AI and, and how to embrace it properly and with a healthy view.

And wow, wow.

And for those who want to learn more, they can reach out on LinkedIn, they can go to uxwp.com or riskdna.ai. Anywhere else you want to send them?

I think that's enough for now.

Okay, so reach out and, and find out what, what tools are coming down and how they can help you in your industry. And thank you to our sponsors of today's episode, Achieve a Fractional which provides fractional executive leadership for growing businesses. And if you enjoyed the episode, share it with a friend, with a colleague. If you're wondering about financing or finances in and how to invest and some of the tools that are available, reach out to Kyle and team, see what is there and how you can maximize your potential. So reach out and we'll see you in the next episode of the Achieve Podcast.