The Achieve Podcast - Thiru Thangarathinam (KeenStack)

Welcome to another episode of the Achieve Podcast, the show where we highlight leaders, creators, and entrepreneurs, those who are building meaningful businesses, shaping their industries, and having an impact. I'm Taylor Baker Baker, your host, and excited today to be joined by Thu, CEO and founder of KeenStack. Give us the backstory real quick. For those getting to know you and what you guys— you have quite a rich history and have done quite a bit, but give us the backstory on how you got into this space and who you're serving today.

Yeah, so I've been in the IT space for the last 26+ years or so. After spending 10 years at Intel, I started my first company in 2012 called MSD Solutions. We were a Salesforce.com system integrator. I grew that to about a $35 million business. Wow. It's an IT services consulting business and sold that to a strategic buyer in 2022. After spending a little over 2 years with them, I left that company, started my second startup, KeenStack. Uh, we are a pure-play ServiceNow system integrator. We specialize in, uh, customers helping maximize the value of the ServiceNow investment that they've done. Um, so my goal is to grow this company and then, um, in the next 4 or 5 years, and then see what opportunities may exist in terms of exit or, you know, strategic growth opportunities.

Oh, that's awesome. Now, how big is the team in the organization right now?

We are a little over 100 people between India and US. We have an office in India, southern part of India called Trichy, about 70+ people there, and about 35 folks in US. We're based here in Phoenix. Okay.

And what would you say has been some of the greatest factors for driving growth for you guys right now?

So whether it was my previous company or the current company KeenStack, one thing that I've realized is if you build, especially if you're in services space, if you build a company with great culture, create a great environment for my employees to thrive and do their best work, that directly translates into excellent customer service. Because at the end of the day, I believe if I do a good job of taking care of my employees, they do a good job of taking care of the customers. I almost view culture as a secret sauce for what we do as an organization. A competitor can come and replicate a lot of other things that we do, but it's extremely challenging to replicate the culture, the bedrock on which KeenStack is built and how we work with our customers.

I love that. And that is so true. Culture is something you can't just copy, cut, paste. So, so with where things are at right now, what would you say for you, what turning points have molded the way you think about running and creating organizations?

I think it's, it's the mindset of growth mindset that I've, you know, learned about 10, 12 years ago has been a big factor in terms of how I think and operate, especially if you're an entrepreneur. There are many times where you have to lean into discomfort, learn something new, and really grow through the process. And, and in the last 14, 15+ years of doing this, between my first company and second company, I cannot count the number of times I have to go into a kind of a very ambiguous area and figure things out. Having that mindset of growth mindset versus fixed mindset is so critical. Because without that mindset, you know, all these things that are coming at you from so many angles, whether it is the, the overall geopolitical situation that we're dealing with, or it's the AI things that are happening there, there's just a lot of noise coming in at you at any point of time. But being able to filter through the noise and really lean into those things and learn through it and then come out, come out on the other side stronger is, is just a key part of how I operate. And I think that's very important for any entrepreneur.

Yes, absolutely. I love that. Filter through that noise. So when it comes to your messaging, your outreach, your marketing systems, what's been working well to attract and retain good clients and customers?

Yeah, I think it is kind of evolved a lot, especially in the last year or so. There's just a lot of AI-generated content that everybody's blasting. Yeah. The barrier to creating content has come down so much now. It's very hard. I think, I believe people crave for authentic content. So one of our core values is authenticity. It's something that we're really big on. My approach has been while the AI tools can increase the productivity, it cannot replace authenticity, cannot replace empathy in terms of how we work with customers. A lot of what we look for in terms of how we market ourselves as a company or our services is all about how can we be very authentic, how can we be empathetic when we work with customers. And I think people do look for those things. Yeah, yes, we use— do use AI tools internally for certain things, but that's not the only thing that we do. I think the ability to marry those AI tools with this authentic empathetic approach, I think, has been a key pillar of how we go to market with our services and solutions.

I love that. I love that distinction. AI cannot replace authenticity. Like, it just can't duplicate your voice. That's beautiful. So when it comes to your sales and marketing, where do you feel like there's still opportunity or money on the table?

I think there is a, you know, one of the distinctions between my previous company to, you know, my current company is right out of the gate, we want to focus on enterprise class customers. Whereas in my previous company, maybe year 5, 6 is when we got to a certain level of maturity to be able to go after enterprise class customers. But I think we're trying to build that maturity from day one compared to my previous company. I think that's there is a big opportunity, but at the same time, there's also a challenge when you're going after enterprise-size customers. The first thing that they look for is how long have you been around? Do you have similar type of customer that you're working with? Sometimes that's hard because we are trying to land the first customer and the next 10 customers and all of that. But I think that's where the biggest opportunity exists. I honestly also don't— I, that That's where honestly the biggest challenge also exists, which is where, you know, a lot of our brand building activities are really focused on building that credible brand so that enterprise customers can say, yes, we can trust KeenStack to do the right thing for us. Yes, they have the scale while they may be boutique in nature, but they have the scale to deliver the solution that we are looking for. So we are always looking for those opportunities, opportunities to, you know, build a brand that's credible, that can be associated with enterprise class customers.

That makes a lot of sense. And yeah, it's not always just about what's cheapest. Like, is there longevity? And that's what I look for. That. So with AI and automation, because there's so much talk and confusion and opinions flying around, where have you guys found ways to utilize it internally?

Yeah, so like everybody else, you know, we use cloud internally. We drive a lot of productivity improvements. Through that. But also, we, like I mentioned, we make sure we don't lose authenticity, which is one of the core values. So we've been able to use, you know, tools like Cloud and Krisp, which is kind of a meeting recording tool. You know, we've connected Cloud with our HubSpot, with our emails and all of the systems, so we can drive insight very quickly without having to look at 10 different systems to be able to say what's happening at an Intel account from an account intelligence from a customer standpoint as an example. So what are we, how are we tracking on this employee experience survey as an example. So all this data that's accessible at, you know, at a finger point on at this point, but the same time what we're also finding is these tools are very expensive. So this whole token models can get out of control. So like everybody else, you know, we are trying to put some governance around that and say, are we using the right tool for the right scenario without, you know, losing sight of the, the costing model there? And I think that's something that, you know, a lot of companies are struggling with. And, you know, we have our own learnings that we are trying to apply and see how we can help our customers.

Wow. So as you look at the trajectory of the business, where it's going, If you had to pick one constraint to focus on and solve over the next 90 days, what would it be?

I think the biggest thing that any small businesses face is that consistent pipeline and demand generation. And that's something, you know, we've done a lot of work again from a marketing standpoint to be able to achieve that goal. But at the same time, you know, that always ends up being a constraint because If I can get a predictable demand generation engine going, everything else downstream becomes much more easy to plan and manage. But when it is not there, it's always a catch-22. Do I build supply before demand comes in? You know, it becomes a catch-22 scenario there. That's where, that's where I think, you know, that one constraint, if we solve that, it can really help us grow.

I can see that for sure. And so is there anything you have found that's worked well in the past to kind of keep that ebb and flow on a steady pace?

Yeah, so I think the key thing there is, again, it goes back to my comment about enterprise customers, because if you land enterprise customers, in essence, you've created a predictable, predictable pipeline because those enterprise customers, especially when they're using ServiceNow as a key platform, it ends up being multiple years of relationship with the customers. Essentially what you've done is you've solved that pipeline issue to an extent because you can predict a certain level of work coming in as long as we continue to do a good job of delivering valuable outcomes for the customers, which I'm confident we can. So that definitely has worked really well. I think the second part that we have seen is on the marketing activities again as well. Can we just go after a very specific niche? And become the go-to market, go-to player in that area. Again, it's easy to build economies of scale. It's easy to build marketing thought leadership content focusing on the niche. So I'm not trying to be everything to everyone. I'm just trying to be, you know, this for this set of customers. It just makes, you know, everything downstream a little bit easier and also allows me to attract the right type of customers. The customer that I want to work with versus working with anybody that shows up. Those are the things that we are really focused on as a company. How can we do less, but then with more higher quality? So that way, you know, we can systematically solve the demand generation pipeline issue very productive.

I love that. It's amazing what happens when you have that clarity, like you're talking about. It's like, use focus.

And I think it's, it's interesting, right? Uh, you know, there's a saying, companies don't starve because of lack of opportunities, but companies lose direction because they try to do too many things. Mm, yes. I have to remind myself and my team of that all the time to make sure, are we focusing on less number of things versus, you know, saying yes to everything but they're not being able to do a good job across those things.

I love that. So when you look at your own journey then, the wins, the mistakes, what lessons stand out to you?

I think that's a great question. So I think there are so many lessons, uh, that I've learned over a period of time, um, all these years of, um, doing this. But if there's one thing that I have to pick, I would call it resilience. Because when I look at last 14, 15 years of doing this being on this entrepreneurial journey, I've heard so many nos versus the number of yeses that I've heard. Being able to pick up from those nos and say, you know, the next thing would be fine, next day would be fine, or next week would be fine, next month would be fine. It's such a critical part of the genetic makeup of any entrepreneur. Without that, it's just very hard to get up in the morning and show up to work and hope that make it be a better day compared to the number of nos that I heard yesterday. And that's what I would say. I think that's what keeps me going, having that resilience and not let that, you know, bring me down, drag me down, and being able to say, you know what, I think it is fine. We'll learn something through this. Now how do I get up and move to the next thing and hopefully make that a yes?

I love that, that resilience is underrated value often in society. So last question for you, Atharv. If you think about the next stages of the business, what are you most excited about?

Yeah, so I think what we have done over the last few years is we have at this point, through the work that we have done, we have built a strong foundation across sales, across marketing, across delivery. And then, you know, like I was talking about, this focus on enterprise type of customers has been a key thing. It took a lot of effort and resources to get to this point, but I feel we have landed about 8 to 10 enterprise customers. We have great logos to showcase now. Now the goal is, now how do I now drive growth through those logos? But in addition, Now, how do we attract new set of enterprise customers using this as a baseline model? So if that goes according to the plan, there's almost going to be like a hockey stick growth that we see over the next 2 years or so, you know, especially going into 2027, 2028 and beyond. And that's what is very exciting because all the grunt work that we have done and the foundational work that we have done has really helped us position ourselves to be able to grow. And when I think about that, you know, that, you know, keeps me very excited about where the business can go.

I love that. Solid foundation, clarity, and resilience. So key ingredients in your formula. Any final thoughts for our listeners or others on a similar journey?

Yeah, I think the only thing I will say is, you know, I have a lot of empathy for people that are going through this journey. It's not easy. It's not for the faintest of heart. I think for people who have a, who have a, you know, ability to, you know, when they're knocked down and get up and go to the next thing, I have a lot of empathy for them. But one thing that I've always helped me or kept me on track is this belief that tomorrow will be better than today, and having that belief and sticking to that belief has always helped me. So that's, you know, something that I've learned from my own experience.

Well, that's a beautiful belief, and that, that's amazing. So for those who want to get involved or want to learn more, they can reach out keenstack.com, LinkedIn, anywhere else you want to send them.

Yeah, even if they want to talk to me directly, learn some, you know, exchange some stories or ideas, uh, theru@keenstack.com. Um, I'm happy to be of service and help to anybody and happy to share my lessons and experiences.

Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom and the years of knowledge and base that you've gained, gathered. I appreciate you sharing that with us today.

Absolutely. I've really enjoyed talking to you, Taylor, and I hope that is useful to your listeners.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I got a page of notes here myself, so And thank you to our sponsors of today's episode, Achieve Fractional, which provides fractional executive leadership for growing businesses. And if you enjoyed the episode, share it with a friend, with a colleague. If you're not sure, reach out to, to the team and KeenStack can help solve a lot of these problems you have. They'll, they'll do the diagnostics, they'll run through and see where your problems are. And again, I love that clarity aspect that you're bringing. It's like resilience. Just get up, tomorrow's gonna be better. Just keep that mentality.

I love that.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Taylor Baker Baker.

All right, we'll see you all in the next episode of the Achieve Podcast.