The Achieve Podcast - Todd Searle (Searle Management)

Welcome to another episode of the Achieve Podcast, the show where we highlight leaders, creators, entrepreneurs, those who are building meaningful businesses, shaking their industries up, and having impact. I'm Taylor Baker Baker, your host, and excited to be joined today by Todd Cyril, the co-founder of Cyril Management. You can find him at cyrilmanagement.com. Yeah, now Todd, Thanks for joining us.

Of course.

Give us the backstory. How did you get in the space and who you're serving?

So it's kind of a windy road, but so went— I born and raised in Arizona. So of course my dad taught at ASU, so I became a diehard ASU fan. So I'll fast forward to that. Got a degree in accounting and finance, dual majored. Was kind of a mistake. Probably should have just picked one. But then got into private equity out of school. So I worked at a private equity real estate firm firm here in Scottsdale, Arizona, um, but had always been raised to have kind of entrepreneur bones. My dad had owned several businesses. That's kind of how he, you know, he had businesses on the side while he taught at ASU. And so he always taught us, you know, take risk, get good at sales, you know. And so while I was working at the private equity firm, uh, me and my brother actually took my dad's jewelry store that was brick and mortar and brought it to the internet age. We said, hey, he was going to shut it down. He actually had shut it down all the way. He was walking away from it to go run a boys ranch in Arivaca, Arizona, which is on the border of Mexico. We're like, well, he has such a firm, like, client base. We still want to serve them. How can we do it without having a storefront? So we put it online. And so me and my brother, we co-founded that, and called it Olive Avenue Jewelry. So if you go to my LinkedIn, you can see that, and put it online. Uh, and at first we were like, oh, we'll make, you know, a couple grand a month. Uh, and it just took off the first year, did, you know, $250,000 in sales. This was probably 2016, I think, is when we started. And then the next year we did a million, and then next year we did 2 million, and then the next year we did, you know, 10. And now we're in the 8 figures every year. So looking to grow that to wherever we can and, and have success there. But my role there was I got really into the marketing and content side. Um, and so when I basically got replaced by hiring people at a certain point, I was like, hey, I still want to stay in this space. How can I do that? So we started kind of a media channel called Built By Gamers, which was taking a passion of gaming And we created kind of— we were one of the founders, probably like 2019. I can't remember the dates now. We did fake podcasting, me and another gentleman, around gaming stuff, around like storytelling. So it was all scripted, every line. We would go back and forth. We would say the line 3 times to each other. And then when we edited it up, like you can go look at some of the edits, they— we did— went really intense, like with B-roll and music and— but it was a fake podcast. Like completely fake, um, and kind of one of the first ones to do that. Anyways, it blew up, you know. So in 3 months, uh, I think we got to our like 100,000 subscriber mark. And really what we learned was this— there was a system to it. Like, content is very systematic if you want to get views. At all. You can go viral once, cool, but how do you go viral every day? It's all part of a system, data-driven, like to the T. Like everything is very intentional. And so we learned that very quick. And so then for the next 3 months, we just said, here's our system, here's how we're going to do things, data-driven. And it just started compounding, compounding, and then eventually we post a video and get 1.3 million followers just from one video. So that kind of just like pushed us up to the stratosphere, got lots of attention, and then grew, grew, grew, grew. And now we're at whatever, 5 million on there, a million on TikTok, a couple hundred thousand on Instagram, Facebook, and Snapchat. But what we learned was that system, right?

Yeah.

And I'm an entrepreneur. Gaming was a passion. It wasn't like— but my real like love was sales, you know, buy low, sell high, even like stock market type feeling, you know. And so I said, what, could we apply this content system to anything? And so we tried, and we went to a couple of my buddies here in Arizona that run successful businesses in pest control, roofing, even a university, University of Silicon Valley. A couple like things that have nothing to do with what we were doing. And we're like, hey, let us try and see what we can drum up for you. Sure enough, it works, right? And so, uh, boring things can still go viral with a system. And then what we learned— and I learned this with jewelry actually, which inadvertently, when now when I look back, I was doing this like we, we had a content system. We just weren't trying to go like viral. But what we were, what I figured out was in 2016, 2017, was we wouldn't put ad dollars behind anything unless it organically did better than our other organic, if that makes sense. So an outlier is what we call 'em, which is super important today anyways. But I like, now that I know the concept, today, I'm like, oh, we were doing that in 2017. But that is basically now what we do with service— these service-based businesses. Hey, let's give you an organic content system, um, that will give you outliers, and then those are the things that you turn into ads. And what we're seeing, like with the pest control company here, you know, they were going from 1% click-through rate on their ads, and now they're at 7%. Because the creative just— it organically worked. So people will watch it whether it's an ad or not, and then it just so happens to be an ad and they click it and they're like, oh, okay, cool. So, uh, that's kind of like my, I'm— my soapbox moment right now is businesses should be posting on organic first before you spend any money on an ad, because you can always turn that organic piece of content into a conversion ad. Uh, you can put a CTA at the end of it, or it already has a CTA in it. Like, it's just kind of like— I'm kind of like preaching. That's like the biggest mistake businesses are making right now, is they're curating an ad and putting dollars behind it, and they're forcing it without testing it. Go test it. There's like— these algorithms on these platforms are so smart now, they'll tell you what people want to watch. Anyways, that's my 2 cents. Wow.

That is a wealth of knowledge you just dropped right there. Yeah. So with the organization, so how big is the team right now? How big is the organization?

So, uh, CRO management itself probably has about 20 employees within different sectors, different shared services. So we have a, we have our AI arm, which is ran by my older brother. He comes from a technology side. And then we have, uh, off-source software development that's ran by Aaron. Then we have accounting that's ran by Kyle and finance. And then creative is ran by me with along with digital, so paid. So me, I run our creative and digital arms. And then we have kind of internal ran by Cole and my other brother TJ, where we have a playbook that we like to implement. It's based around a system called Arbinger. My dad taught it down at a boys ranch. I don't know if you've heard it. Yeah, so we, we think that that will actually make your business better if you apply the Arbinger playbook. We've made some tweaks to it, obviously made, but, uh, so that's one of our other arms. And then kind of management, I mean, we, yeah, the whole whatever vertical you can think of in a business, we try to attack with as much expertise as we can. Uh, so there's probably about 20, 25 of us in the CRO management arm. In the creatives my creative team, we have 1, 2, I gotta count. We're up to, I think, 7 employees now. And we started 9 months ago. Wow. Wow.

That's impressive.

Yeah.

So what would you say right now is driving growth for the business?

Honestly, it was just word of mouth. Like I told you before we got on, like just this week we're like, okay, we can let, we, We feel comfortable with what we did. Let's go advertise it now. So there are a couple ways that we're trying to do it, either the hands-on one where, hey, we'll come in and actually do it for you, or we'll consult your social media team, what you already have for 90 days or whatever. Hey, 90 days, we'll come in. Or there's some kind of entrepreneur founders that have— we're actually helping right now where, hey, I want to be the face. I don't want a social media team. I want to do it. Teach me what to do. And so we're working with like, there's a window cleaning company that's doing well. They just want to do better content and better ads. So we're just going to consult them, not hands-on for 90 days type, you know, hey, apply the system, boom, get you up and running.

Wow.

Yeah, that's where we're at.

So for you, what would you say as you look back, the turning points, positive or negative, that are molded or have molded the way you think about running the organization?

Oh man. So I mean, I learned more from negative moments. Uh, so even starting like the jewelry company, there weren't like negative moments, but it was, it's a really good, especially with social media, people can find themselves, what are the competitors doing? Like scrolling, right? Like who's, What are these people doing? What are these people doing? And what I, what I noticed was anytime I've done anything successful is I stopped doing that. I don't care. Like you just block out the noise and just put your head down and go. Because anytime I've ran into, oh, what are these people doing? What are these people doing? You start to try and mimic them and that's not— you might be going against who you are or what you are actually good at. Trying to mimic these people who have spent years crafting what they're crafting, right? It's human nature. We want to know what's going on around us. But a lesson I learned in anything that I've done up until this point is you got to block that all out unless it's specifically like with content. You do go look at what competitors are doing and spin it off is what you call. But for the most part, you can spend 10 minutes doing that and you got to, you got to walk away. But also, you know, there's moments like, you know, deals gone bad or, you know, partnerships gone bad, employee moments gone bad that have taught you or have taught me, you know, to reevaluate how I approach certain situations. You know, I've had big deals blow up where people are going to acquire us and then string us along for a year and basically have to completely fire everyone in the company because they didn't pull through with the funding, you know. So like moments like that where it's okay, now you approach a partnership not loosey-goosey ever again, right? Like there's no bro code. It's what, what are we getting, what are you getting, and when are you getting it. So Yeah, there's tons of moments like that for sure.

I love that clarity. Clarity helps so much. Now, as you guys try to grow and expand, what have been some of the biggest bottlenecks or obstacles that keep showing up?

Oh, good people, I think is the number one thing, right? Like human capital, I think is the most underrated thing. I mean, AI will definitely help with scaling certain things, but even AI right now, Like we were actually having a conversation about that with, you know, like 10 of us in a group where we were talking about there's some young guns that are using AI to basically, they're accounting students that are interning for us and they're using it to learn how to like completely do everything. Oh, what was it? Amortization. He said he couldn't do an amortization table by hand. And then there was one of our other guys in the accounting group was like, oh, that's how I learned. And so I was, uh, we were talking like, is that good or bad that he's using AI to completely remove that? I'm in the camp that I think you should learn how to do it by hand just in case you have to, and then use AI to amplify that skill. Um, which I see every day in content. If you, cuz we use AI for content all the time to find ideas, maybe help polish certain or research. But you do not want to use it to script your video 100% because it will— you can tell that it sounds like AI still. I mean, we jumped on the train early with Built By Gamers. Like, as soon as ChatGPT came out, we were using it. We got in lots of trouble because the research was not good for some videos. But like, I've seen the evolution happen. We're like 60, 70% of the way there. But you still have to like know what you're looking for for a good video. Still. Now don't get me wrong, it helps significantly, but I'm, I'm kind of like, I think you need to get good at the craft by hand and then use AI right now to amplify it. I mean, maybe one day it will replace us all, right? Like, that's kind of like the theory. They're going to be our overlords. But I'm kind of, yeah, I'm kind of like, uh, with the, the question was bottleneck. Bottleneck is people, right? Uh, I don't think AI is gonna solve that 100% yet. That was what I was trying to get at is a lot of people are like, AI's gonna solve the human capital. I think it's the opposite. I think you'd still get the best people that will use AI to even amplify their skills. That's the bottleneck right now is finding good, hardworking people that are polymathic is what I call it. So like, can be good at anything. Utility knives. Because I think that's where we're going because of AI. Yeah, gotcha.

I can see that. And, and I love that distinction where it's like AI isn't going to replace people, it's somebody using AI can do his job.

Yep, there we go. Exactly.

That makes a lot of sense.

Now your 40-hour work week will be done in 10 hours. Yeah, so you have 30 more hours to do XYZ. Projects, right? Or work 10 hours, I guess.

Yeah, whatever suits your fancy.

Yes, exactly.

Okay. Now, as you guys have gone your messaging and your outreach, your marketing systems, what have you found that's been working well and where do you fill the gaps and frustrations?

As far as like marketing? Mm-hmm. Um, so I mean, again, these, it's, I mean, we're kind of fresh out the gate marketing it now, so I'll get back to you. But we're applying the same system, right? Even for us outreaching to find businesses or service-based businesses that we want to help, we're going to apply the same system. I just created the Instagram yesterday, like I told you, but that's how we're going to attack it first. And the reason I say Instagram is because that's where the highest quality buyer is of people we want to be. A lot of people can use TikTok or other platforms, but Instagram, we're going to apply our 5 bucket system. Create that type of content speaking directly to the avatar. And anything that's an outlier, we'll put money behind it and get in front of people. So check back with me in a week, but we're going to be posting, you know, like 3 videos a day is basically the kind of the 90 or the 30-day roadmap is we try to get 90 videos out. Um, not everyone should do that, but that's how we do it since we're kind of deep, but And then we'll really find where our holes are. We'll find what works, what doesn't, and you double down on what works. Yeah. You know, data is king at the end of the day.

So true. And now where are you guys using AI internally to kind of automate things?

And yeah, so my brother's a real nerd, so we've, we've built our own internal, like, you know, we went and got the graphics cards in our own internal server rack because what we noticed with AI is the context window. I don't know if you've— so like you might be using AI and then eventually it will forget it's some of the stuff you talked about, you know, a day before or even a few hours before. And so we've— we're building our own internal system where we can, one, flood our own private data into it so we own it, uh, but then we can remove that context window so it will be ever learning. So we're pretty I would say my brother's pretty level 10 when it comes to this. I am a kind of like, I'm like level 3, 4, 5, right? Like I use Claude. I've kind of moved away from ChatGPT to Claude. It just kind of seems to be working better right now. But every, in every way. So let's just say for creating videos, I use it at every level. So finding ideas to to editing, to scripting to an extent, like not all the way. You can use it for posting, you can use it for managing comments. I use it for DMs. So like I use ManyChat, but it's an AI system, right? So if someone comments on a video, you might send them a link to somewhere. So yeah, we use it everywhere and I, and It's trial and error too, though, you know, like, oh, there's a video that I'm making right now. I don't know if this story is real, but my brother told me it where you can get in trouble with AI. So there, I guess there was, there was this lawyer that had to present a case the next day, was kind of behind procrastinating getting her notes together. So went to ChatGPT, Claude, whatever, one of the AI systems. Started giving it the details, asking it for advice, gets some cases and some that would set some good precedent, right? The next day she goes to present it, presents these cases as precedent, yada, yada, yada. The judge is like, yo, these cases don't exist. So basically loses the case by using AI. And now I don't know if that story is real or not. Maybe it is. Somebody told me it and I was like, that's a great example of what we were just talking about. Use AI, but don't rely on it too much. Yep. Yep. You never know. In a year it might be like you have to, right? Like, but right now that's where it's at.

Wow. So Todd, when you think about the next stage of the business, what are you most excited about?

I really want to, yeah, I'm super excited about the just expanding our really consulting. Like if I lived my dream, it would be I go into a business that really wants to scale, might already have a social media team or is already doing content and just say, just take my brain, guys, just do this. And you'll, you'll go from 7 figures to 8 figures or 6 figures to 7 figures. Just, just apply this in 90 days, 6 months, it changes everything. So that's what I'm most excited to go and try and do, like is build that up. I really want to focus on that consulting, but also acquiring more businesses. That's a big kind of thing. What do you call a goal of Serral Management is we want to work on what we own ultimately. So I would love to use this as a funnel to try and find businesses that are good to acquire. So we want to be in that AI-proof space. So we recently, we got some equity in a roofing company. Um, what else did we do? Oh, uh, a dental company that does, uh, mobile hygiene for just businesses. Uh, we signed like a pretty big contract with school districts. So teachers that have a hard time going and using their dental insurance, we come to them, set up pop— like a little pop-up shop, and we have— bring hygienists and clean their teeth. Anyway, stuff like that is We want to find stuff like that where we can apply our systems to it, not just creative, but everything across the board and create scale, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Wow. Wow. That's crazy. That's so impressive. Now, Todd, when you look at your own journey, the wins, the mistakes, what lessons stand out to you and what do you wish you understood sooner?

Failure is the best thing for you. I think we're all scared to fail. Like, what are these people going to say? What are these people— like, we're afraid to fail, like inherently, like as a human, we don't want to fail. And I'm an introvert, actually, like in my truest form. And so I definitely don't want to fail. I don't want to look bad in front of people, right? Like, I get it. Just, I just don't want to. And what I've learned the last 10 years is like, that's crucial and it molds you. And nobody actually cares at the end of the day. Like, maybe they do for a second or might talk about you to their, you know, behind your back, whatever. But it doesn't matter. And, you know, going viral so much on the Build by Gamers kind of taught me that too. Like, we get so many comments that say stuff and it's just, or like, you failed or you're wrong or you said the wrong thing. Who cares? Just go. Just keep going. Like, that's something I wish I would have learned actually way, way, way, way sooner was you have to fail. Working out, right? It's kind of the cliché example. You got to tear up those muscles to build them. So you got to fail, fail, fail. And that's even cliché too. So many people say that, but that really is like, don't care what people think. Who cares if you fail? Fail 99 times because that one time you succeed is going to change your life. It's going to change it. That's how it works. So That's what I would wish I learned 20 years ago, is like, who cares what people think? Just go fail as much as you can. Go fail and fail, fail fast. Exactly.

I love that. Last question, Todd. Now, if you had to pick one constraint to focus on and solve over the next 90 days, what would it be?

For me personally, it would be— this one's kind of a little too Maybe personal, but editing. I'll give you one that's really personal to me and then maybe kind of, we already touched on it, but, uh, editors are the, the biggest bottleneck for anything creative. So if you're in the content game or wanna make content, editing or finding an editor to scale your business is the hardest thing ever anyways. But other than that, no, it's how do you create a funnel to attract human capital. How are you building your brand and your ecosystem to have the best people work for you? What incentives are you structuring? That is kind of like the biggest hurdle, I think, that we want to tackle as a business. And we, we, we harp on it a ton because we're trying to build that ecosystem and incentive program, incentive structure to attract the biggest and most valuable talent, because I think that's going to be the biggest bottleneck in going into the future.

Well, Todd, thank you for coming on and sharing your incredible journey and story.

Sure.

And the little nuggets all the way through is just how it can apply to so many different industries and businesses. For those who want to learn more, serialmanagement.com or realtoddserial on Instagram.

On Instagram, I just made it yesterday, so there's not a ton on there, but go follow it. I'll be dropping more nuggets. Or yeah, strongmanagement.com if you want to learn more about our, our business.

That's awesome. Again, thank you so much for coming on. Any final words or thoughts for our listeners?

No, that's it. Thank you. You've let me talk a lot.

It was very enjoyable. You, you've given a lot, a lot of value, and appreciate it.

Great. Thank you. Appreciate it.

And thank you to our sponsors of today's episode, Achieve Fractional, which provides fractional executive leadership for growing businesses. And if you enjoyed the episode, share it with a friend, with a colleague. If you're an entrepreneur, if you're starting up and you want some advice, you want some management, some help, reach out to Todd and the team and they'll see what they can do for you. And we'll see you in the next episode of the Achieve Podcast.