Unghosted w/Alishah Novin and Taylor Desseyn

Uh, what's going on everybody? Good morning— or no, it's 11:59 AM, so good morning. It's great to see y'all. We are, uh, the boys are back, the boys are back. Uh, the Bash Bros. Alicia and I are the Bash Bros. Anybody watch the Mighty Ducks? Speaking of Mighty Ducks, I'm playing in a hockey tournament this weekend, big hockey tournament locally. So, um, uh, between hockey tournament this weekend and me going to Italy for 2 weeks next week Um, I will not be talking about a lot of career stuff. So if you want to get hockey content and you want food content, feel free to follow me. Um, Alicia, how are you?

Good. You know, it's funny, you, you started your hockey tournament. I'm now coaching 4 and 5-year-old soccer.

Uh, are you really?

Yeah. I love that. I love that. Man, it'll, it'll test your patience.

It's, it's a great— Really, anything with kids tests your patience.

Yeah, but when you got a lot on the field and you're trying to get them to focus, it would pull my hair out.

My hair, I would go bald. I would go bald. Um, it's good to see y'all. Please comment, say hey again. So this is, this is a, it's not guidance counselor. This is, this is, this is unghosted, but I still want you to say hey. I still think it's applicable. I still think networking's applicable. So say hey if you're tuning in, if you're lurking in the background, just throw up your favorite emoji or something. Connect with the people on the show. Again, I'm big on networking. Alicia's big on networking. We're gonna talk about it today, but I'm gonna kick it over to Alicia. First off, I wanna give a shout out to people. It's great to see y'all this morning. Alex, Chris, Scott, the boys are back. We are back. Albert, it's good to see you. Garrett, it's great to see you, man. Wow. 3 in 1 week. Yeah. I go live pretty much every day. So it's exhausting, but I like it. Uh, Matt, it's good to see you. Michael, it's great to see you as well. Uh, hello LinkedIn user. Um, Zalim, it's good to see you. Ryan, Scott, um, Adonis, great to see you. We got some new names on here. Christopher, it's good to see you. Alex, uh, Brian Hamburger. Now I want a hamburger. Thanks, bro. I love that. Everybody throw up their favorite emoji. All right, real quick, it's a quick exercise. Whatever your favorite emoji— so go, go to your phone, open up your phone, go to the keyboard, whatever your favorite emoji is, throw it in the chat. I'm generally curious. Alicia, what's yours? What's yours? I'm looking at mine right now. What's yours?

My spin on it's not, not favorite, but it's the one I identify with the most, and it's the upside down smiley face.

That is like upside down smiley face. Yeah, mine's, mine's the skull, like I'm dead. Like what you said was funny. It's between the skull and then, uh, one that's really, that's up there on mine is the pig because my hockey team is, is, uh, Black Pigs. So, uh, we're sponsored by a barbecue joint. So, uh, let's see here. Uh, Joe, it's good to see you. Richie, good to see you as well. We got a lot of people commenting. Jake, we got the crew out today. Michael, people want to hear from us. That's pretty impressive. Dominic, it's good to see you. Nicholas, look at this favorite emoji. Ghost. We got a cross. Love that. What's this?

What's that?

Is that, is that, is that, is that a figure in the clouds? Richie, it's good to see you. All right. Yep. Love that. The shrug. Dan, I'd love that, Michael.

Love that. I love that.

That upside down hits home. I love that. Let's see here. What else we got? My happy is happy crier salute.

I love that.

Cool. Awesome. All right, Alicia, why don't you set the stage of what this is and why we're doing this and really who you are too?

Sure.

Because it's been a minute since we've done this.

It has been a minute. Well, I was hiking in the mountains. No. Back in 1936, when we used to tie an onion to our belt because that was the thing at the time. So I you know I I've resume I've reviewed resumes a while.

You have resumes? You have resumes.

Resume reviewed resumes. I didn't do my vocal exercises. Yeah. But yeah, so so we've been both reviewing resumes for for. some time. And we've pitched ideas on how to— to each other about how to, like, make this scale and be more interactive and maybe even do a conference that's geared around, like, just not tech, but the job search and what the job world is like. And we've had ideas and stuff. And then we thought, you know what, let's just— let's do this live and give active feedback so that we can benefit from people commenting and giving their thoughts and input, too.

Yeah. Yep.

And I think, you know, one of the things that I've noticed, I've not kept count, but I'm sure it's in the thousands that I've done on the side, not as a hiring manager, but then probably also in the thousands as a hiring manager that you always see the same kind of things over and over and over, the same sort of mistakes and all that.

Same things. Yep.

Yeah. And so it's just like this way, instead of doing the review on our own offline, you know, where people don't see it, We're putting it in front of people. They can see what we're doing, why we're thinking the way that we're thinking, what we're looking for. And, uh, and that way we can do it, uh, in a way that's more interactive for people. So it demystifies it, you know? Absolutely, absolutely.

And Alicia, give a quick background for the people who don't know who you are.

What do you do?

And yeah, all that jazz.

So I was born—

Right, Friday. The reason why I wanted to do Fridays is because it's a little bit more unhinged. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm definitely there.

Yep.

So I've been a software engineer for, like, ever. Forever. Like, I started as a kid and I'd always code and code and code. And then I was— I entered the professional world of software engineering as someone without a CS degree, which at the time, that was more rare. You know, boot camps weren't quite a thing. They weren't as big as they are today. So there was a lot of pushback on me in terms of, like, oh, you don't have a CS degree. Oh, you don't know this. You don't do that. So I really, really had to, like, push my way through and got to work at some pretty awesome places as a coder. And I progressed as a coder into, you know, Mr. Manager and then Mr. Director.

Yep.

And then, you know, as everyone had their COVID identity crisis, I had mine. And I said, you know what? I don't want to write code anymore. If code is the how you implement something, I'm now in my career more interested in the what and the why. Particularly the why. That's true.

Yeah.

And so, I really want to chase after why are we building this? Why are we solving the problems that we're solving? Are we solving the right problems? And so, my professional point has shifted to be a product manager. But still very much in the tech world and still very much, you you know, wanting to help people who are trying to figure their way through this world. 'Cause I had to do it. Lots of other people had to do it and I just wanna pay all the good fortune I've had, pay it forward. I love that. I love that.

Yeah. And quick background about me. I've been looking at resumes now for 12 years, so, and talking with a lot of software engineers. Obviously I see a lot of familiar faces from Guidance Counselor 2.0. I have a podcast and then actually Alicia, fun fact, I'm pretty sure Alicia was like my first guest. Like, I, I'm trying to remember who was like my first true— I think you were my first. It's either you or Calvin, um, what was his name? Calvin, um, not Ridley, he's a wide receiver with the Falcons. Um, Calvin, Calvin Curry. Calvin Curry, I believe. It was either you or him. But let's just say this, Alicia was my very first guest on Guidance Counselor 2.0 3 years ago. Um, and I've only met Alicia once in person. Right? Once. That was an NTC thing.

Was it once?

I think it was only once. But Alicia's one of those dudes that like, I'm just BFFs with him virtually. And, um, um, I mean, you know, we decided to do this together so we can hang out more. All right, cool. So let's talk about what we're gonna talk about. So resume. So I have a bunch of resumes lined up. I'm gonna go ahead and start, start sharing the screen. So what we're gonna do is the original, the original title of this series, I think we did 3 of 'em, was Yeah, Call Me— was it Yes, No, Maybe or something like that?

Yeah.

Call Me Yes, No, Maybe. Kind of the same thing. We're gonna pull up a resume, we're gonna review it, um, and, uh, we're gonna give you tips real time. Um, and, uh, yeah, we'll go from there. So, um, so first resume. So I'm gonna go and share my screen. Let's go and pull— Scott, you're first, buddy. You're first. Um, hold on, share screen here. I'm gonna make sure I do this right. All right. Can you see that? All right. Let's zoom in a little bit. Hold on. All right.

Cool.

So let's scroll through this. So, Alicia, initial thoughts as I kind of scroll through it?

I like it because it looks a little familiar. I think Scott's used a template that I like.

It looks really good, by the way.

This looks Really good.

I—

so, so let me, let me— I mean, I'm gonna be biased because I— because this is an awesome template. But, um, you know, here's— here are the things that I love about it. If I'm hiring for a software engineer, I'm seeing the stuff that I want to see right at the top. Yeah.

Yes, yes.

Because before I start digging into experience, before I start going how many years, how many this, how many that, I, I just want to know like What do you know? You know, are you actually a good candidate for this role, right? So do you know, in this case, like React? Maybe I'm entirely— well, yeah, maybe I am entirely a React shop. So I want to make sure that that's there. Or if I'm Node, hey, cool, Node's there as well. You know, so— or if I'm switching between things, you know, this is all like the exact thing that— this has the exact kind of things that I'm gonna just do for that initial vetting.

Yeah, I think so. I'm really big. One of the things I've gotten really loud about on social media, if you've been following me, is I think the summary portion, or, you know, this case it's called career summary, is like super important. And I don't think anybody talks about it. And in my perspective, the career summary, the professional summary needs to be this and/or bullet points outlining how many years of experience you have, right? Because I think it's almost like a mini cover letter, like the summary portion on your resume. Like I need to know. And then Richie, I see you in the comments in here. Would definitely love to know your thoughts. Richie's a great recruiter. Highly recommend him. Go follow Richie. But I wanna know what you do without even looking into your resume. Like I need you to frame up your experience. You need to have this overall, I need 6 years of engineering experience. And then let's dive into those 6 years. What does it look like? 3 years with React, 2 years with AWS, 1 year with serverless AWS, 6 months with Rust, 3 months with Go. Like I want all that in the top so I can be like, bang, bang, bang. And you know what? If you have a good summary, I'm not even reading your resume. I'm calling you immediately. At least for me.

Thoughts? And, and there's, there's 2 things I'll add on top of that. Like one is, let's imagine that summary wasn't there and this was printed out. I'd get my red pen and I'd be sitting there going, okay, this looks about like 2+ years.

So it would be, it would be like this.

Yeah. And I'd have to do all the math and the figuring it out, right? And so I'd have to be like, okay, it looks like 2+ years. Looks like I see some React. Looks like I see this. And the result of that is I might make mistakes, right? I'm doing all of the work to figure that out. And so you're not representing yourself as the best way. You're having me represent you.

Yep.

The other thing is that just before that job interview, I'm gonna go and, like, reread my notes. This gives me the notes. This at the top, it says exactly what I want to see.

Yeah.

But the other thing, the other whole side of this coin that I think is so important is this shows me how you're thinking. You know, like this is because software engineering, coding, any job is not just about doing the like delivery of the task, right? What is the one thing that everyone always says is the most important? It's on every single job posting. It's communication, communication, communication. This is a resume that communicates because it gives me the important stuff in the way that I need to see it and knows what I'm looking for, right? It's giving me the summary so I know, okay, I can put this person in this kind of like, uh, stage of their career. This is what they know, this is what they don't know, and then I can get the details further down and it shows an effective way of communicating. So it lets me measure the person on a completely different level than just what's on the resume itself.

Yep, I love that. Um, and also, by the way, I want to open this up. If you have comments, questions, if you have career questions, right, we're here to answer career questions. This is really the— this hour is for you. So if you have questions, comments, all this stuff, please throw it out there. I wanna get to a few at this point. Brett comes in here. What's that leading line for someone with no professional experience? This is— that's a good question. Do you have thoughts on this? 'Cause I can dive into it if you need to.

I have thoughts on it.

Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

You, you, you go ahead if you're, if you're ready.

I mean, for my thing, Brett, if you— even if you have 6 months of code school experience or 6 months of volunteer work or 3 months of volunteer work, I think that's a great leading indicator. 3 months of software experience, freelancing, volunteer work. That's what I would put. Thoughts, Alicia?

Yeah, I think, I think if you're just starting off The most important thing that I'm looking for, let's kind of see it through the why would I even be looking at your resume kind of lens. So I'm already probably going to be looking for entry-level roles, right? Like I'm hiring for those people who are in an entry-level position. I'm not gonna be looking at— if it's a senior position and your resume comes across, I'm not gonna look at it because I'm just gonna know there's a huge disparity in terms of the experience that I'm looking for. So because of that, you know, what my expectations are are gonna be aligned to what I'm ultimately looking for for someone who's just getting started. So I do wanna know what languages you know. I do wanna know what projects you've built. I'm not looking for you to have 5 years of experience when it is kind of absurd for you to have.

Correct.

So it's really more about, again, think of it as, like, what's the information that you're gonna try to get across to me? And it's really just about, okay, beginner, but what do they know? How do they learn? How have they learned? How do they continuously learn? How do they continuously grow? And if you can get those things across to me in whatever way that you can, that's important. Don't pull away from that message by putting in other stuff that's fluffy or—

And that's what people run into. They get weird and you feel like you have to fill up space.

You don't have to. Yeah, don't do that.

No. Um, uh, Dominic goes, this is very insightful feedback. Um, Richie comes in, goes, I love Scott's resume. I do think you're right, it could have a great summary. Just, I think Richie's just saying like the bullet point thing of what we're talking about. Um, he has a lot of great tech, and what we talked about yesterday is he's getting hit up for senior roles when he's not senior. Interesting. Okay, so Richie, Richie, Richie and Scott talked yesterday.

I love that.

Um, BTW, I love summaries and disagree with those who say you shouldn't have one. Yeah, again, I, I, I need to know what you do specifically before I even look at your resume. Um, let's see here. Where can I find this theme? Um, Alicia, um, alicianovan.com/resumetemplate. alicianovan.com/resumetemplate. Sweet. Um, yeah, I've heard many conflicting. So he, he, and here's the deal, y'all. Alicia's been doing this a long time. I've been doing this for a long time. People are gonna have thoughts. Mm-hmm. Like you can take what we tell you today and shop it around and people are gonna disagree with us. Like, people just are. I will tell you this, we have experience placing and hiring a lot of engineers in our career between us two, so take that for what it's worth.

Um, how— Let me just also add that real quick though. Yeah, like, I have a look, I have a style. I don't like to use color on my resume. My resume looks a lot like this. It's one page, it's all this stuff. But does that mean if I'm sitting there looking at someone who's got a blue and pink resume with their picture on it and all kinds of silliness. If they've got the skills, I'm still going to look at it. I'm still going to assess it, right? I'm not going to turn them away. It's more a matter of trying to solve the problem that the state of the world is in right now, right? And I'll tell you this, that this resume is very much a North American resume.

Yeah.

It's selling yourself. Right? If you put this in like a euro market or somewhere else in the world, some people are gonna like be opposed to it just because it looks very, very much like a pamphlet on a person as opposed to a CV, which is a lot more academic. So you're going after a market and you're trying to solve a problem. This resume, this approach is trying to solve the problem of setting yourself apart from the rest by being very, very intentional with how you are communicating what you're communicating. Absolutely.

Um, how can somebody screw up a summary section? I say by not having one. That—

yeah. Uh, fluff. I—

fluff.

I mean, gosh, if, if you're trying to impress me with your vocabulary and your thesaurus, and just don't. It's, it's just like, what— it doesn't mean anything, you know? Like, if, if I have to sit there and go, what do they mean by this, then you failed. Because a summary Right? A summary is the thing that everyone should be able to read and understand. Your grandma, your grandpa should be able to read the summary and go, I don't know what React is, but you sure do have a lot of experience in it. You sure do know this. You sure have like had an impact in this way because, oh, I know $250 million or 1,000 users or whatever. That should be pretty important to someone who doesn't know anything about your career.

Absolutely. A lot of questions coming in. I knew this was gonna be a hit. I wanna get to Mark's. I wanna jump a few questions. Resumes are such a bottleneck to the process. This is why Alicia and I are doing this is because we don't, we, we don't want that to be a problem for you. Karen comes in. Karen goes, I'm a, I'm an SME healthcare, was an ICU RN for 10 years. What's the best way to show off those skills on my resume now that I'm a dev and wanna work as a dev in that same field as a former director of engineering? Alicia, What would you like to see?

So, you know, without seeing the resume, I mean, again, the key things are those basic elements of I do want to see the languages. I do want to see what tech you know. Because that's gonna be ultimately the main kind of baseline just to start considering the resume. After that, though, I mean, I think this is— I'll try to make this long answer very short. I think the world has moved towards empathy. And what I mean by that is people are less focused on, oh, you've had this very linear path from point A to point Z and you've done it in the right way. Order doesn't matter as much anymore. It's who you are and what you're there to contribute.

I agree.

If you've been in the ICU and you're an RN, like anyone who spent any time in any kind of emergency room knows that the most important thing in that environment is calm, patience, empathy.

Which is somebody I want on my team.

Exactly. And so if you lean into that, I mean, I would like, I would go to the point and I've said similar things. I've not been an ICU RN, but I've, you know, in an interview I've been incredibly candidate or candidate, I've been incredibly candid with people where I've sat there and I said, listen, I don't have the CS degree, but how many of your CS candidates have Like 17 websites that they build on their own time? How many of them are going out to coffee shops and just building their own things? Like, I live, eat, breathe writing code. This was me at 24 and having no other obligations in life.

Right.

But I would tell them, you know, you can make your decision based off of who's done stuff that's purely academic or someone who might not always talk the talk but can definitely walk the walk and has all of these skills. And I have the code to prove it. If you want to see something, if you want me to send you one of the things that I've built on my own time, I'm happy to. And if I was a nurse, I would probably take the same approach to say, listen, how many times do you find yourself in a stressful situation where temperatures rise and, you know, things boil over and people get angry at each other, right? I've been in these circumstances or situations where I have to diffuse that and I have to like Work through that. And I would really lean into just those skills that being a nurse has taught you, because that's incredibly important regardless of what your next move is or what your next role is.

Absolutely. Real quick, there's been a lot of questions coming in. Um, I'm gonna go ahead— uh, Scott, great resume, I would call you. So let's go ahead and— yeah, yeah, let's move on from Scott. Um, cut the fluff. Um, let— so, so y'all, so y'all keep The question's coming. We're gonna go to another resume real quick, okay? Um, because I do want to try to knock out these resumes because these individuals want to be looked at. Um, all right, so we have a, we have a LinkedIn next for us.

Cool.

So let's, let's go ahead and bring that up.

Share screen. Also, at the end, I want to know who's talk— who talks more with their hands, me or Taylor. So keep track of that, keep score.

That little promo video you did, I was rolling. All right. First off, Colin, your cover banner photo thingy with all of your icons, that doesn't tell me anything about you, man. It just, it's just a lot of like, as somebody who's not technical, like I know the Angular, I know React, I know Next, I know JavaScript. I don't know the rest of 'em. Right? So in my opinion, the COVID banner photo thingy, a very non-technical term, needs to be something about you to draw me into your profile. I think it's fascinating. I say this a lot, that LinkedIn, a highly, highly professional platform with a lot of words, gives you the option to have a, to have art, to have something on your profile like this. You need to use it to lure people in. And I know that sounds weird. Biggest story, I met one developer, he was back of the house audio engineer for the Backstreet Boys like 2 years ago.

Get down.

He put, I told him to put that on his banner, you know, former Backstreet Boys audio engineer turned software developer. He got a job because the recruiter was interested in talking to him, not because of what he does, but because of what he did. And he got the conversation going. So that's what the banner is, in my opinion, is used for.

Alicia? Yeah, I agree. We keep it simple. No, I mean, I like It's, it's clean and it's polished, but, um, there's just like, it's just a bunch of icons and it doesn't really give me a sense of the actual knowledge there. It's just, it's just icons. Yep.

And moving on, Colin, great profile picture. That's half the battle. Let's talk about, um, all the words. So that's, it's called the title portion of your resume. I mean, of your LinkedIn. Give me like 2 or 3 that's most important. Right? Honestly, here TypeScript is JavaScript, right? React is JavaScript. Angular is JavaScript. Node is JavaScript, right? SQL, NoSQL. What do you wanna get called for? That's what I would put here. So I would put full stack engineer, JavaScript, TypeScript, React, Angular, Node. That's it. That's what I would put. Just keep it simple. There's a lot of terms here. You gotta understand something. You get, you need to reverse think. When, when, when, when I search a profile on LinkedIn, I believe only the first few words of your title show up. So you need to be able to have the most important words at the front. Alicia, any thoughts?

I'll give you— I'll give a story here. Anecdote.

Oh, boy.

When I was— when I was with—

18 hours later.

When I was with a startup, I had to be incredibly scrappy with the budget that I had for hiring. And so one of the things that I would do, and I— this is maybe dangerous to say because I'm now part of like a company that owns LinkedIn. So yeah, but yeah, one of the ways, one of the ways that I had to be scrappy was I had to be really, really good about how I could find people on LinkedIn while having no premium, no business, no nothing, just being a guy searching on his own, kind of like non— premium type account. And the way I would do it, uh, take note people, is I would go and I would search. I would put in keywords. I'd put— and you can do an advanced search where you can set the location, uh, if you want, if you need the person to be, you know, in office. Um, but I would, I would set some keywords. I would search for certain types of, um, demographics that I needed, like, you know, whether they were, uh, You know, again, geographically located or whatever you might have. But then I could just hit search and I could just get a list of about 200 people before LinkedIn would cut me off. And I don't think I'm the only one who does that or did that. And so go grab a friend and say, hey, can you pull up your LinkedIn and see if you can find me? And just work that, work ways to which you want to be found, because I think that that's going to give you a bit of an edge in terms of like getting at getting seen, and that's the name of the game right now. It's not being like so crisp and perfect that someone's like, I'm just gonna hire you based off what I'm seeing. It's about just getting noticed and seen.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, all right, let's move on— or not move on, let's move down real quick. Again, we're going to kind of go through these. We're almost already halfway and we have a few more profiles, so we're going to knock these out. Keep the questions coming. I'm gonna try to save the last 15 minutes for questions, but I definitely want to get through all these profiles for the people. So we're going to kind of put our heads down for the next few minutes. Um, so Colin, uh, love this. Love volunteer dev experience. Love this. You, you go into what you've built, you've teaching, you, you list your skills. Really, really good. Thoughts, thoughts on this, Alicia?

No, I think it's, I think it's fantastic. And if you actually scroll up just a little bit real quick to the activity, so that right there, that's so important. Uh, not because I'm trying to get people to post constantly, but because that's how people would appear in my searches when I'd search something. And you'd come up. I mean, cuz you could search by post, you can search by profile, you can search by a whole bunch of other things. And having a recent post will help you get in that, in that list of people. I love that.

I love that.

Absolutely.

Colin, great. See if you have any recommendations. You put projects. Love that. No recommendations. Get some recommendations. Listen, it's just, it's just like, it's like I say, if you look up a restaurant, where do you go? You look at Google reviews, right? It's not the end-all be-all. I still go to restaurants who have bad Google reviews. But you still need them because it only strengthens your profile. Um, so, but overall, Colin, um, fantastic, um, fantastic LinkedIn. Um, all right, let's see here. So we got Colin, we got Scott, and check that out. All right, here we go, there's another one. All right, Alex. All right, Alex sent me his, um, LinkedIn and his resume. Alex, just for time, we're just gonna do your resume, um, since that's technically what we're focusing on. Um, We will get to your LinkedIn next month. We're gonna do this once a month, y'all, by the way. Every Friday. Not every Friday. Once a month on Fridays. All right, here we go. Alex. All right, so let's see here. Summary. Got the summary, not bullet points, kind of just vague. 100 devs. We got the 2 columns. That's distracting. Yeah, so I think it could be better. Um, Alicia, you first.

Yeah, if I were— if, if I were trying to move as fast as possible, this would confuse me. 200 email or 200 resumes to go through. Yeah, I wouldn't say no to this. I would just put it in a stack of I'm going to come back to this, which—

And you don't want to be in that stack because right now you're not going to get called back, right?

There's just going to be other people that I'll find that have stuff more. It's just, it's, it's just like I, I'm— it— I have a hard time kind of knowing exactly where to direct my attention. The skills stuff, I've noticed that People put their skills and their languages, right? Like, they're mixing skills and languages together. Fine. But then they appear like as if this afterthought. And it's the most important thing. If you're pursuing a coding role, like, what you know, the languages you can— that you know are the most important things. And if those are not at the top, front and center, easy for me to find, it's important. And actually, let me call out something else. I made a mistake. I was reviewing somebody's resume once.

Elyse made a mistake?

Can you believe it? It's my second one. I put 3, but I said second, so 2. Okay. I was reviewing a resume recently last week and I said, hey, you know, it looks like you have these. You probably wanna focus on like growing yourself in this direction so that you have these languages as well. And they responded saying, I do have those. Did you not see it? And I went back to the resume and I missed it. And the reason why I missed it was because in terms of the languages and the way they had listed it, It started off with like, ooh, impressive language. Ooh, impressive language. HTML, CSS. And that's when I stopped reading. And then they had impressive language, impressive language, impressive language. And I was like, why would you put HTML and CSS as like this divider between all these other really important languages that's gonna help you stand out? 'Cause it's almost like there's like a general way where people read things where they start with a priority and it gets lower and lower in priority and, or lower and lower in terms of importance. And they had, in my head, the way that I was reading through it, once I got to HTML, I was like, okay, that's kind of the end of that. And I was just, because I was moving quickly, because I was trying to get through things really like in a fast way, I missed those other things. So prioritize your languages in a way that actually is gonna help you stand out. Having HTML at the top is not gonna help you. HTML is like, I love HTML, but it's not the most complicated thing out there right now. No.

Yeah. And it looks like from some of the comments, it's maybe a 100 devs template. Listen, there are templates everywhere. I don't wanna hate, but I don't think this is a great template. I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. If you're writing, if, if a lot of y'all are doing 100 devs like this, I don't think it's great. Use Alicia's. It's really good. This is confusing. If I were to look at this too, I'm probably a little harsher than Alicia. Alex, I love you to death. You're a constant supporter of what I'm doing. I would reject you immediately. Um, because I just do not have time. To sift through a summary. So, so here's— so I'm gonna give you real time how my eyes work. I pull this up, summary, not bullet points, moving on. Skills on the right, I hate that, moving on. Software engineer, 100 devs, don't know what you're doing. First thing I see, Scrum. Scrum's the thing that pops out to me, right? And then I go, okay, well then, well then there's all this stuff and it's like, ah, forget it, move on. So, uh, Alex, I love you, but I would I would move on. All right, let's, let's go ahead and stop sharing.

I don't know you, Alex, but I feel like I love you.

Yeah. Alex is awesome. All right, here we go. Let's, let's, let's go to another one. All right, hold on real quick. So let's do this. Let's do invite. Nope, hold on. Sorry. Present screen share again. If you have questions, we will get to them, I promise. Um, throw it up in the— throw it up there. All right, here's another one. Um, let's, let's talk about this one real quick. Uh, no names, I'm gonna keep the name hidden. Um, so, um, what do, what do we think? Not ideal. It's just not ideal. Yeah, there's just a lot going on. We got—

yeah.

Yeah, we got different formatting and we got bolds different places.

It could be better.

It could be better. I'm gonna be honest with you, and who— obviously I know who sent this. I would not call you. I would immediately— so like Alex, it would take me like 5 seconds to reject. I— this is, this is a rejection immediately. And I think the content is there though, which is the problem. Right? BS degree, MS degree, 2 MS degrees, right? You know, I see tech in there, right? But like, there's, it's long paragraphs, it's no bullet points, it's a bunch of bold text that shouldn't be bolded where it's bolded. It's dual columns, which is, I'm gonna say it, it's fucking terrible, right? Like just, yeah, I know.

Language.

I'm sorry. We're, we're, we're just unhinged on this Friday afternoon. So, so yeah, again, just not great. Look at Alicia's template and let's condense it.

Alicia, this isn't an effort to try to promote mine. I don't get paid for that template, by the way. Um, but, but like, yeah, it's, it's just not doing you any favors. I mean, there's so much in here that's so valuable, but the one thing that, again, like, I'm just gonna go back to communication. Like, I just don't— I, I just don't— this would worry me in the situation where I would have you present to a leadership group. Because if this is how you're presenting yourself with all the great knowledge that you have, it's just so overwhelming and it's— it makes it really hard, right? There's a reason why people talk about executive summaries and, and they'll include them on, on professional documents and presentations. There's a reason why even in academia you have the abstract, right? It's there to let people just know what it's about.

Right.

And this is like, it's just, it— there's, there's just, there's a lot of good stuff. It's just—

Well, it's just, it's like what Garrett said, my eyes just can't decide where. And that's the thing, that, that it's annoying.

He's talking about our videos though. He's talking about me and you. He just doesn't know who to look to.

Ding ding ding. All right, cool. Um, again, we love you. Thank you for sending this, but it's not good.

All right.

Um, let's see here. So we got that, so I'm gonna go ahead and delete that then. All right, here we go. We got another one. All right, we got LinkedIn. We're gonna fly through this. It is our guy Michael. Love Michael, he's great. All right, here we go. Front-end web developer, love that. Name, content, love That. Great.

Love that. The phone number's a bold choice.

Phone number's a bold choice, but I love it. Yeah, great profile picture. I can see your face, you're smiling, you look pleasantly happy. Um, okay, so Michael, I don't, I don't know you super well, um, but I, I see technical writer as your first thing. Do you wanna be a technical writer or do you wanna be a developer? Right, let's figure that out.

So, um, I like that highlight.

Thanks, appreciate it.

Um, no, no, I mean the highlight in the profile.

Oh, the highlight.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, heck yeah, Michael. That's what I'm talking about.

Again, Michael's great. Uh, love this, love the featured section, looks very intentional. Love the activity, love the activity. I'm currently interested in junior and technical writing opportunities. At least, what do you think? Do you think he's got a pick or do you think keep it open?

Sorry, say it again.

Do you think he can— do you think he's got a pick? Should he just say a developer or just say a technical writer, or do you think—

Oh God. Okay. Like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, that, that it's tough on a LinkedIn profile. I would pick and just see how it's going. And then adjust it and change it frequently. There's no harm in changing it frequently. But I would, I would pick one and then kind of get a gauge of stuff because it's just, I'm, I'm always worried about somebody getting pigeonholed. You know, you want to be a coder, but I have a technical writing job. Okay, I'm gonna give you that. And then you're gonna be like, well, I want to really code. And I'm like, I don't have anything for you. So now I've invested all this time to bring you on, and then you're learning, you're doing great, but now I ultimately know your heart's not in it, right? And that's the thing that kind of worries me.

Yeah, absolutely. Also swallowed my water wrong, almost died just now. Um, love this. Microsoft specialist, would love to see. Okay, love that.

Yeah, a lot of, a lot of detail and tech stuff.

Love that.

I'd summarize that just, just Just a quick point.

It's just a little long, maybe a little long.

Yeah, I mean, like, I think it's probably— is it different role? Is that the link? No, that's, that's just one thing. So if that is just one thing, I just— those paragraphs, it's kind of like, I see what you're going for trying to break it up and all that, but it's just—

it— Which is what I talked about. I think Michael took that, took my advice and ran with it, which I appreciate.

I, I don't think it's like— let me try to be clear about what I'm, what I'm trying to get at it. Because there's so much in there, it's hard for me to— like, I don't think I would sit there and read the whole thing, you know? So that means that anything that's super important, I'm probably gonna miss. So just, just either trim it down to the things that you're like, no, no, you have to know this about me, you can't miss it.

Yeah, I love that. Uh, Nathan's a fellow recruiter. He loves it when phone numbers are on their profiles. So there we go. I love it, Nathan. Thanks for tuning in, buddy. Um, Just checking, just checking. We got one.

Probably get one more. Put it in the comment. Like, if putting your phone number helps you get more calls, put that in. I was—

I'd—

for me, it's a spam thing, but I don't know. People— if you look at my most recent contacts, the last person that I contacted was like 2 months ago. So.

Yeah, there you go. There you go. Michael, overall solid. I just think— I think dig into, do you wanna be a technical— do you wanna just go for Techwire jobs? Do you wanna go for software dev jobs?

And then make your profile that.

But then also maybe experiment, right? Change it up. There's nothing wrong with changing it up. So, um, cool. Hope that helps. Who else we got? Again, we will get to questions here in a second. We got 2 more profiles to get to. Alrighty, I'm going to share this. Zalim, he, um, he's tuned in. I saw his name in the chat. Let's go over his profile. Well, hold on. Okay, hold on. All right, so I know what your name is, I'll tell you that much. Um, let's see here. Thoughts?

Um, Close.

We're close.

Yeah, we're good. I think we're close. So, okay, go ahead. It's the order. That's, that's probably the only thing that, that I would say change in this one.

Do what?

Because the education being at the top, like, not— I don't— I mean, people work hard for their degrees. I don't want to knock getting your degree, but, but it's just kind of where we're at though.

I mean, it's not— I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying it's not as important because I feel bad, but I, I just don't think it needs to be at the top.

I just don't think it's not the most important thing that I'm looking for, right? I'm not— if I'm looking for a candidate, I'm not gonna be like, first let me see what degrees they have, right? 15, 20 years ago, that was more important that they have a degree, not where it came from. But I just don't think that that's like— I'm not sitting there going, what were the courses that they did? You know, what was their GPA? Like, that stuff is The world's moved on from that. Keep it in there for sure if you have it, it's great, but it doesn't need to be the most important.

That top half, it's so important, man.

It's so important.

It's prime real estate, right? So like, for this also too, um, uh, Zalim, so you graduated Trebekka in 2021, so you have 2 years of experience.

Like I don't know.

To me, I almost, to me, I almost reject you in my mind mentally because it's like, oh, well, and while I understand you only have 2 years, if you put your systems engineer for Cigna at the top and then this down here, you're like GitHub, my mind mentally is gonna think you're maybe more senior than you are.

Yep.

And again, this is just my, this is how I interpret resumes, right? I'm not saying it's how everybody interprets resumes, but for me, if I'm like, Oh, well, he graduated in 2021, so he only has 2 years of experience, which is the truth. But if you put that systems engineer role like that, that, that's a pretty— you got some tech in there. You got AWS, you know, Glue, which has been very heavy, very hot lately. Um, you know, you have Docker, Ansible. I mean, like, you have really good tech, but it immediately gets in my mind rejected because your education is first.

Yeah.

So, yep.

I would take it if you drop down on the skills real quick.

Yeah, I'd put that at the top. Yeah, yeah.

And, and just work on your formatting so it's a little bit more categorized. And like, I get skills, it's brief, it's to the point. It just doesn't— I prefer the word technical proficiency. I think it just is a little bit more—

Skills is like, I can eat a hot dog in like 30 seconds flat. Like, to me, that's like what a skill is.

Yeah, it's not too far off from hobbies. And so it's just like you can, you can put a little—

or just say technical proficiencies or technical skills even. But like skills is like I can, I can bounce on it.

And then instead of spelling it out Python and Bash scripting, right, just putting Python Bash, like Python comma Bash, perfect, right? Put a little headline in front of it, languages Python Bash.

Yeah, good.

I love it.

Oh, and, and Zalim comments, he goes, I've been getting calls for senior roles, so that makes sense. There you go, there you go. It's almost like we know what we're doing. Um, all right, so Zalim, just a few critiques. Hey, what do you think of the red? I don't love it, but that's just me. I still think black and white all the way. But I do have to say, it's, it's very— it's— your resume is pretty easy to read though, which is surprising because of the color.

Yeah, yeah, I think It's, it's not— I mean, I'm not gonna knock anyone for it. I, I, it's not my favorite, but again, it's like, I— would I, would I say no to someone just because they use right?

Right. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. It's just, again, it's, it's the eye test. It's the eye test. You got 5 seconds to capture somebody's attention.

So I will say that the one OCD thing that was, was hitting me though was like the spacing between skills and the paragraph right above it was less than the one above it. So If you really wanna get into the layers of OCD, which people do, like when you, if you have a group of hiring managers sitting there looking at resumes together, it can be brutal cuz they'll really rip into some resumes. And so, you know, they'll get into font choices and everything.

So, all right, last resume. It's my boy Dominic's resume, and then we're gonna go to questions. So if you have questions, let us know. We're gonna go with the last one here, which is my boy Dominic's. Let's get after this real quick and then we'll go to questions for the last 15 minutes. This template looks familiar, doesn't it? I hate to hate on 100Devs, but stop it. Because 100Devs, like, whatever. I don't even know what 100Devs are. I know it's a good thing. I know it, you know, I know they're helping, but their resume template's not good.

It's a lot of margin space.

It's a lot of space. A lot of space.

I mean, like, I'm not saying squeeze it right to the edge, but for some, it just looks like, it just looks like a weird formatting thing went on there. Like, if I were looking at it, I would think, oh, they did this in Word or, you know, Google Docs and they just didn't align something correctly. And this is what they sent to me. So it just feels incomplete because of the spacing. It just, it's a little, it's a little That's my first immediate un— like, unaltered impression.

Yep. I mean, again, summary, it's a bunch of words, Dominic. It's a bunch of words. Like, give us facts.

Those bullets though, those are killer on the work experience. Those are fantastic.

Yes, I, I do agree with that. I did 4, you know, 4 to 5 front-end features, leverage Rails to backend store data, implemented changes to 20% of the onboarding documentation. Love Quantitative.

Love that.

Love that. Again, bullet points are great. I just think the format just is like, yeah. Again, Scott, I like Dom's word choices. And then, yeah, I'm with Richie here. Side by side messes with my brain, man.

It—

listen, Richie is a very tenured recruiter as well. I think he's been doing it probably longer than I have. Um, it's just, it just messes with us. Again, it just distracts us and we just, we don't have time. We don't have time. Dom times. Also, Dominic, you show up to a bunch of my shit, you know I hate 2 columns. Come on, man. Come on. Can I—

I'm gonna, I'm gonna— I don't know Dom, but hopefully I can, I can—

he's, he's a good—

I'm gonna pick on something here. Um, so, so real quick, just, uh, you know, at the top there. So a couple of things. One is, uh, that, that last paragraph in the summary, I just don't know what to do with it. Right? I'm very passionate about open source as well as public good companies. That's great. That's admirable. The goal is work on technology that reaches out a helping hand to the people that need it. Like that phrasing needs a little bit of work, but it's just, you know, from a hiring manager's perspective, I like that you're, you've got a purpose and a passion. I just don't think that's the spot for it, you know, because it makes me go, oh, I'm a privately owned company that is not necessarily doing something for the public good, right? Not necessarily doing something evil, but, you You know, we're not— that's not our focus. So is he even gonna be interested in this role? It just makes me go like— it just puts me on a weird spot where I have to then go, you know, what do I actually make of this part of the summary? And it's not— don't lie about yourself. Have your passions, have your purpose. And I think this is an admirable one, but let that come through when you're actually talking to someone so you can explain it and give them more of an understanding of who you are. 2 sentences to tell your passion is just like—

Yeah, Dominic, again, I love you. I don't give a flying flip what you're passionate about until you get in the interview. I just don't. I, I don't care. And when I read a resume, I don't care what you're passionate about. You could tell me I love coffee, and, and maybe you can put your hobbies at the bottom. I do like a little hobby section, for the record. I used to not, now I do. I think a little one bullet point listing out your hobbies is a good kind of like conversation starter. So I do love that. But Dominic, listen, man, I don't, I don't give a flying flip what you're passionate about. Like, let that come through in the interview.

And, and, and on your resume, that is on your resume, on your resume. And if you don't list your hobby, you don't have to list your hobbies. I don't list it on mine.

That's fine.

But like, I think very quickly anyone who like starts looking me up will quickly know what my hobbies are. I don't think it's like I don't shy away from that. So, but the other thing is that there's a mixture of fonts on the far right in the contact. You used a sans serif and the serif one, which people like, I'm telling you, people get really picky about stuff.

Real weird. Yeah, absolutely. So Dominic, thank you.

Just be consistent. We love you.

All right, let's get to the comments. Last 15 minutes here. If anybody has any— 13 minutes. Anybody have any comments, questions, or concerns? Um, I'm gonna go kind of scroll back up because there's a bunch of comments that came in earlier. Oh man, wow, there's been a lot of comments. Um, I probably should have planned this a little bit better. Um, let's see here. I've heard completely— hold on, we're going where Uh, here we go. Uh, from John, when I hear— when I keep the summary, my resume goes beyond one page. How can we have a summary make— here's the deal, it's fine. It's fine to go over one page. Again, I don't— I wanna kick the guidance counselors in the shin. That's another reason why my podcast is called Guidance Counselor 2.0. Who's ever been telling us one-page resumes, they need to go get kicked in the shin.

If, if you've got like 2 lines though on the second page, like I think that's more get it back down to one page.

But, but here's the deal, I think it goes back to formatting. Like Dom's resume, like Dom had 3/4 of the page not even used because he's not using the margins of the header. Use every— use, use them. Use the header, use the footer, do what you got to do.

Um, it's about finding that balance, right? You want to be able to— it shouldn't be so word heavy that it just looks like a page of words, like a phone book or something, if those exist. But, um, but You know, don't, don't like go crazy with the formatting that it becomes hard to actually consume as well. And again, if it goes on to 2 pages, no one's gonna be that upset about it. I've actually been thinking about how whether people have started changing the page format, because if people aren't printing resumes anymore, why are we still going with 8.5 by 11? But that's for another conversation another day.

Yeah, well, that kind of goes off to Brian's quick question. He goes like, with all this technical innovations, we're still doing it this way, basically.

Yeah, yeah, I— it's— yeah, I, I, I completely get the sentiment. Here's, here's, here's 2 things, just quick. I'll try to be as quick as possible.

You're gonna wait, we got 10 minutes, and then I gotta get my hair dyed.

Oh, okay. All right, I do too. No, um, so, so for— you got the opposite of me. You've got dark and then light. I know, I know, I know. We are a yin yang.

Okay, so my, my, my, uh, uh, my, my hair girl, she, she like watches my stuff and she goes, I always, always know when I'll let you know when it's time for you to come back in.

I was like, thanks. So, so yeah, so this is— this obviously like resumes still do mean something. It's, it's less of like the, oh, someone's gonna spend, you know, 5, 10 minutes poring over it. They're gonna spend 30 seconds. They're gonna spend maybe a minute tops because they're trying to make decisions as quickly as possible. There's software that tries to prioritize and, and like help rank people faster. But at the end of the day, it's It's important just to get it right so that someone can see you and get a sense of whether they want to talk to you.

Right.

The other side of it is it's important for you because I think if you take one of those resumes where everything is just scattered around, it's so hard for you to take that and translate into a message when you're giving the interview. You're going to be all over the place. You're going to be talking about all kinds of things. You won't have a focused, cohesive message, right? Cohesion is the important part here. Like, If you can't pick between a coder and a technical writer, and that comes through in an interview, they're gonna have a hard time really figuring out what you wanna do and whether they want to bring you on. Same thing goes with a resume that has just too much stuff. If you don't know your immediate impacts, if you don't know or can't speak to what languages are probably going to be more impactful to the hiring manager than other ones, like, you need to have a good sense of it. So think of a well-designed, well-formatted, well-summarized resume as benefiting you because then you go into the interview and you are very, very precise about what you're talking about and you're to the point.

Absolutely. We're not gonna get to everyone's questions. We got 9 minutes. How should a summary of a non-dev person look like? I think still the same. If you're a business analyst, data analyst, I think it's, I tell people research job descriptions of the job you want and then work that into your summary.

Yeah, I mean, I like my— I've moved from a tech role to a product management role. Part— most of my summary is now made up of some of the projects that I've worked on, some of the management, uh, like this number of teams and the size of the teams and the number of products and the size of the products and the revenue and the impact that I've had, um, the community work, things like that. Just, I'm trying to paint a picture of who I am. So it doesn't have to be, here are my languages. It can be like, what are the things that you drive What are the things that make you valuable to that team?

Yep, absolutely. So I'm a sales, same guy. Shaquid, thanks for tuning us from the UK, man. I appreciate it. I'm a solution sales engineer. I'm not sure what's right there. So here's the deal. It's sales revenue, like deals. Like I need quantitative. I drove $2 million in revenue when I interviewed for Gun. I had to let them know how much revenue I drove from content creation. Like everybody right now in today's sales world, Because people gotta be profitable. It needs to be very specific of how, you know, how many qualifying trips did you hit or how many milestones or how many sales? So that's what it needs to be there. Quantitative. Get quantitative. Is Alicia hiring? How do I work for 'em? Yeah, Alicia's great. Are cover letters really helpful? The old CV comment. Ritsu, I'm not picking on you. This is always asked with here. Alicia, thoughts?

I— a year ago, 2 years ago, I would say no. Now I'd say, like, everything is on the table. It's just such a mess. So— It's a mess. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, don't waste time by putting together a cover letter that's not valuable. But there was a period of time where, like, I spent a lot of time on a cover letter because this was a few years ago and it was just because I had a really— like, the company, for what they did, it was like my jam. It was not just, oh, I'm passionate about it, but like I had a story there about, hey, if there's anyone that you want to hire, I'm the guy for it because I actually have, in a weird twist of fate, 7 years of experience with this exact thing that you are going to have a very hard time finding the right person for. And that was the story I told. But I can't do that for every single company because one, it's not true, and two, it's going to take a lot of time. So—

A lot of time.

Be selective. Don't write something that's just gonna be like rinse and recycle and reuse.

It's like, 'cause then it doesn't work.

Yeah. And it gets ignored. So just be very intentional with them.

Let's see here. What else? 5 minutes left. Again, thank y'all for showing up. This is incredible. Nathan, I love you. We went over the summary stuff at the very top of this, so go check that out.

A good summary will make me stay at the top rather than jump down. That's my answer. There you go.

Let's see here. Thank you guys, really appreciate it. Sorry, I'm just trying to get through all these comments right now. Can you talk a little bit about having a resume formatted for human readability and a resume formatted for ATS? They're both the same. They're both the same. Scott, yours is human and ATS because they're both the same. There's not I think there's, you know, and, and I, I don't know if there's any agent, if there's any internal recruiters that chime in, you know, because some, because, because I am curious, right? Some people get rejected immediately when they send their resume. So I'm kind of curious, like, that's not a human doing that. So I'm, I am, I don't know if you can put up parameters in ATSs, but for the most part, a human is reviewing your resume in the ATS. They may set up like a quick parameter, like if you don't have, like for example, gun.io. Right where I'm at now. We have an algorithm that we wrote that if you submit your application and you have less than 5 years of experience, you're rejected immediately. So there may be some general stuff there to reject you just for overall years, but for the most part, like, you're—

it—

an ATS is a person. So, uh, yeah, one single call from start to finish, please. Um, along with phone numbers, I would say an email about doing a call would be nice. Yeah, and I agree, I agree. Again, well then don't put your phone number, right? And I would also recommend having a job search email, by the way. You don't wanna be emailing your mother and accidentally emailing your hiring manager or potential hiring manager about something. Uh, how do we feel about Calendly links? I mean, sure. I don't think There's gonna be a lot of people probably doing it because that's not the point. You should be, you should be reaching out and networking with people and sending a Calendly. No one's gonna book it randomly.

The sad fact is that when you're in a position of being the hiring manager, you're— you can put yourself on a pedestal and feel like you're all high and mighty and being like, I'm not gonna base my thing on this person's Calendly. I'm gonna, you know, it's gonna be around my calendar. So it's like, it's well-intentioned, but it's, you know, unfortunate that people take that, but, you know, power goes to your head, and so I don't think it's worth the effort. No.

Um, I've heard don't put your graduation year. Ah, I mean, I don't know.

I, I mean, that's, that's actually against the law. Not, not you can put your graduation year. It's against the law to exclude a candidate based on their age. So So, you know, if a company is doing that, you know, they've got— I think that's a company you don't want to work for anyway. Absolutely.

Let's see here. Dominic, time to get roasted. Thanks for being such a good dude. Let's see here. I don't see anything else. Am I losing more than I'm gaining? Gaining with that one? I'm really interested.

Oh, that's talking about that second sentence.

Oh, okay.

Okay. Yeah, I would say, I would say pull it from your resume and then apply to those companies, or keep in your resume and apply to those companies. That's probably a better way of saying it. Like, it depends on how you're going about your job pursuit. That, that is going to be important for companies that are very much focused on, you know, climate, climate change, etc. I'm not trying to handwave climate change there, but, uh, yeah, yeah, you know, that whole thing. But, uh, but, but the point I'm trying to make is if you're exclusively pursuing those, then absolutely keep it in there. Um, but if you're not, if you're going more of a blanket approach, then—

Yeah, yeah, I like what Richie said here. Um, yes, we will be doing another once a month. I think we agreed on the first Friday of every month. I think that's— no, second Friday, something like that. Something like that.

We'll create another invite every month with a Friday.

Yeah. STAR action, situation, task, action, result. I've been saying, what do you like? X technology to solve Y problem because of Z is kind of what I say, but I've been told it's the same thing. So yeah, what's the situation? What did you have to do? How did you do it?

What was the result? Yep. But if you have to pick, I feel like STAR is a little long.

Like there's a lot of things.

Action and result are, are—

it's just action result. Like what'd you do? What was the result? Give me data.

You don't need to give me the whole job description. Let's, let's say that. Like, yeah, we're gonna assume that you did your role and your responsibilities. So what were the actual specifics that stood out?

Uh, can you comment about potential ages in our industry? It's there. So you just don't want to work at those places. I mean, it's never gonna be fixed. It's gonna be a mess.

I think part of the thing is also like, it's tough because seniors tend to have and want to approach things like senior engineers, not senior citizens, want to approach things in a more the way things have been and things have changed a lot. And it's not to say that, you know, they are being excluded, but what will end up happening is there's a bias against them for that fear, right? Oh, we don't wanna bring this person on because they're set in the old way of doing things. And so one way to counteract that is, one, don't work for companies that are already taking that approach or taking that perspective. But two, you know, show how you are like, proactively staying tuned into how the world has changed with AI, with, you know, just technology and, like, how it's evolved and what is happening in terms of, like, the way that people are— I mean, web developers and software developers and app developers are a lot more social today. And I mean, like, on the internet than You know, 20 years ago, it was you'd go to a forum or you'd go to like a, a mail list and you kind of chat there, but it wasn't the way that it is today. Today it's a lot more prolific, it's a lot more visible, it's a lot more like out there in the open.

Okay.

And if you're like the— unfortunately, if you're the quiet one that's like in the background, like that's— that doesn't stand out as much. And so that's a way to like try to fight against that ageism. It's wrong, it shouldn't be there, no one should be Um, remove or like ignored just because of their age though.

Sure, absolutely. All right, y'all, well, that was it. Thank y'all so, so much. I can tell y'all enjoyed this. The comments were insane. So thank you so much. Uh, if this resonated with you and you think somebody in your network would, um, wanna hear this, please repost it to share. We're gonna do another one, like I said, 2nd Friday of September. We'll create another invite. Invite your friends. Thank you so much, Alicia. Anything to say?

Just that we're also going to try some other things too, so it's not always going to be resume-focused. Yep. Um, but like, we're— Taylor and I are still figuring that out, but it's, it's not just going to be the same thing each month. So we'll have different themes, we'll have different things, uh, things that we want to try out that I think will be fun and engaging. So yeah, just keep, uh, stay tuned. Like and follow.

Like and follow. Yep, absolutely. All right, y'all have a good one. Take it easy. Have a great weekend.