Struggling to Get Shortlisted? Avoid These Application Pitfalls

Hello and welcome to the Ace Your Consultant Interview podcast. I'm Tessa Davis.

And I'm Becky Platt.

And if you're a final year trainee or a locum consultant and you want to prep, not panic, then you're in the right place. Hi, Becky, welcome to our next edition of this podcast. Great to have you back.

Hi, great to be here. Good.

So let's get right into it. First off, we're going to look at our question of the week from a student. What question have we got this week?

Okay, this is a good question. Hi, I was just wondering, is it advisable or common to take notes into an interview? I'm somebody that likes to prepare on paper. What do you think?

Well, I don't think you can take notes into an interview. Do you think? I don't think so.

No, I kind of— I think it feels kind of feels like cheating.

Yeah, I'd be, I'd be worried about what the panel are going to think, and they'd probably tell you not to, I would say. I don't know, I've not really seen a situation where someone's tried to do it. There, there is a thing though that when— if you're doing an online interview, that you can essentially have your notes there and no one's gonna notice. So I do, I do get asked that quite often from academy students, which is, you know, what When you're online, is it okay? In fact, I was talking to someone about it yesterday. Is it okay to have the notes? And what I said to her was that it's fine. I think it's okay to have them as prompts near you, but what you don't want is that there's too much that's distracting you. It needs to be there as a prompt to help you, not as something that you're flicking through stuff. But I do think you can get away with it in an online interview, but I don't think it would work physically. face-to-face. I think it would look like you, yeah, cheating, not well prepared, not ideal.

Yeah, I agree. And I think if you are doing an online interview and you want to have a few notes, you know, basically as a security blanket, just, just make them bullet points, nothing more than that. Um, just, and, you know, just really as, as an aide-mémoire, something that helps you to feel a bit more secure, but hopefully not something that you'll actually use. Because I think the goal is to be well enough prepared that you can answer any questions because you've got a, you know, a pre-prepared plan of all of the things that are unique selling points for you, that you're going to bring those in, and that you can bring them in in a way that feels natural and authentic and that actually is tailored to the way that they answer the question. I also think it's not a good look to be rifling through sheafs of paper. Um, in the interview, I think it just looks like you're underprepared.

It does. You're like, oh, you're asking me about training, let me just get to page 543. Uh, yeah, that's not, that's not a good look. Yeah, and what you're saying about the bullet points is, is I, I totally agree with that, because one thing that I do would encourage people, or do in the Academy, is we obviously, we get them to choose 5 USPs, is to have— you could have a Post-it note with your 5 USPs just to remind yourself, because these are like the things that you don't want without saying, so you really do want to remember them. But yeah, if you've got your whole answers written out, I think it's going to be really obvious, you're not going to connect with the panel, and yeah, it's just going to look bad.

Yeah, I think what is fine is taking in a blank piece of paper and a pen so that if they— when they ask you a question, if you just want to jot down 3 things that you're going to cover just to keep yourself on track in case you lose your train of thought during an answer. I think that's okay. But I think pre-prepared notes is a no. Shall we look at our golden example now?

Okay, yeah. So this golden example is from one of our students, which is an example where there's a woman who's in her 30s who's presented with SVT. And they want to give her the first— they want to give her treatment. It says she's had a failed Valsalva, and now she's refusing to have The first-line treatment. So, this was a conflict, I guess. So, what do you think about this as an example?

I actually really like this. I think it's actually a quite— it's a nice example of a conflict with a patient. It's quite easy to explain. The kind of incident of the conflict is succinct. And actually, it's a really nice opportunity for you to be able to show in an interview What you do to de-escalate conflict. So, you know, if you've got a patient that's absolutely point-blank refusing a treatment that you believe is appropriate, how do you de-escalate that anger and that conflict in the moment? And I think it's important to remember that the point of this conflict with the patient question is to show that you can de-escalate conflict yourself. in the moment without help from anyone else. And this is a nice opportunity to do it. You can hopefully talk the patient down, you can demonstrate that you're listening to their concerns, and then you can find a way to move forwards together. And that, that's everything that we really want from that conflict with a patient example.

Do you like it? Yeah, I love it. And also it's explained quite like in a quick way, so it's not got loads of unnecessary detail. You know the story, you don't need to be a Emergency person or a cardiologist or whatever you want to understand this. You could be in any specialty and you'll understand this. They need the treatment, they're refusing, and it doesn't need much more context. And why that's so important is that when you've got a really complicated example, what you do is you spend loads of your answer explaining all the ins and outs of the scenario. And it takes up time. And it takes time away from exactly what you're saying, which is— The point of the question is to talk about how you de-escalate conflict and how great you're going to be when that conflict arises. And when you have a short example, a clear short example, you can then focus on that. So I think this is a great one.

Yeah, I love it. And then I think that because the other bit is once you've hopefully persuaded this person to have the second-line treatment and resolve their SPT, then what you can do as part of your interview answer is just to focus on— so What worked when I, you know, when I was de-escalating this conflict? What were the things that actually were positive factors in helping to de-escalate this and to get everyone on the same page? And then what have I learned about managing conflict as a result of this incident? Not what have I learned about managing SVT.

Yes.

This is about, you know, so actually thinking on this. What I know about managing conflict is that actually 90% of it is listening, then working out where the other person's coming from, maybe kind of moving forwards with some joint decision-making and a compromise agreement, and showing how you've maintained patient safety and your working relationship with that patient. This would be a gold answer.

Yeah, I think that from most of the different types of examples that we ask people to come up with, this conflict with a patient, I think, is one of the ones that people find easiest, actually. Because you know the kind of regular routine things that you would have in your specialty disagreements with patients about. And so it's not usually something wildly controversial, and it usually is relatable. And this is a classic example of a good one.

Yeah.

Cool. So next up, we're going to look at the interview question of the week of this edition. So what we're going to look at today is this question about why appraisal is important. So it might be phrased in different ways, what do you think is the value of appraisal, why is appraisal important? So what do you think about this question, Becky?

I actually like this question. We see it coming up reasonably regularly. I think that it's useful to have an understanding of why appraisal is important, and I think it gives you as the interview candidate a really nice opportunity to show that you've got, first of all, an understanding of what the appraisal process is for, and to reflect on things that you've gained from appraisal, or if you haven't yet had a consultant appraisal, things that you can extrapolate that and talk about what you've gained from your recent ARCP. And just then to demonstrate how you would use that to ensure that you are meeting required standards and developing yourself professionally.

Yeah, I think often final year trainees get very stressed about this question because they've not done an appraisal. And it's definitely, if you've done an appraisal, it's definitely an advantage because you've done the process. And actually, if you've done an appraisal, one good way to start when you're answering this question is to say, actually, I've got experience because I've done, over many appraisals, or just to set the scene versus someone who's never done one and is just reading about it. But what I will say is that even though you're a trainee, if you've not done an appraisal, you've been doing ARCPs and they're really the same. It's really not that different. Yes, it's not, it's for your training school and it's not for the GMC, but the general idea of having an annual review is similar. And so many of the things that you'll draw out will be the same, but you do need to know the procedural side of appraisal because you wouldn't be familiar with that if you've not done it before. So it's important just to make sure you know what is it, what it actually entails.

So I think it's also a nice opportunity for you probably to showcase some of your USPs. So, you know, for in the section where you're reflecting back on what's happened in the last year, you know, you can describe some of your key achievements and maybe draw out a particular project that you've done that is also one of your USPs. And that gives, you know, the panel a way to understand the kind of impact that you're making. And then the other thing is you can talk about, you know, from the PDP side of things, what you'd like to achieve over the next year and how your particular skill set aligns with what they need as a department and therefore what you're going to take forwards. So actually, in addition to showing that you understand the procedural side of it and the purpose, it's also a nice opportunity to show a bit of who you are and to kind of get any other Projects on the table that you haven't managed to talk about yet.

Yeah, one of the other things is that you do not need to use it to declare complaints that have been made against you when you're recounting it in your interview. Because I did have someone yesterday or a few days ago in a coaching session that was doing this question, and they used the example of how it's a time that you disclose complaints or any issues, and then used an example of a bit of feedback that had been given to them and how they were addressing it. And it just reminds me of a solid piece of advice, which is that if they do not ask you for a negative, you do not need to give them a negative about yourself. Don't volunteer bad stuff. And actually, this question, it's not asking, have you got a complaint? They would ask you if they wanted to know. It's a chance to do exactly what you say. Show your USPs, show off how great you are, show your understanding of appraisal. So don't throw yourself under a bus if you don't need to. You don't need to be declaring complaints here.

Solid advice. Okay. So I think that brings us to our tips and tricks section. So what have we got this week?

Well, this week we were going to talk about tips for getting your application ready for your interview. We kind of think of the bottleneck— well, I still think the bottleneck is not at your application at all. It's actually at your interview because it's not that hard to do a good application, but it is hard to learn the skill of how to do a good interview. It's doable, but you need to put in the work. Whereas an application, I think it should be straightforward and you should get shortlisted if you're eligible. But we have actually noticed recently that there's been a lot more competition at the shortlisting stage. Do you feel that as well? Where loads of people are applying for jobs, and so they're cutting it down at an earlier stage.

Mm-hmm.

And actually, yeah, it can be very stressful for people when you feel like you're applying for lots of jobs and not getting shortlisted. And so, what you want to make sure is that it's not because your application's missing something that it should have. Because there are some things that will be outwith your control. You can't control how many people apply, you can't control certain things, but you can make sure that you do the best application you have and are able to. So, yeah, I thought we'd talk about how to get your application as good as it can be. What do you think? How would you advise this?

Yeah, I think it's right. I think that the consultant job market is a bit more competitive at the moment than it than it has been previously. Um, and yeah, it seems like people are sometimes not being shortlisted because it's ultra competitive. So I think that the key point around this is that you've got to make it easy for them to shortlist you. Um, and, and what I mean by that is really have a look at the person spec, work out where you meet it And make it really easy for them to decipher from your application that you actually meet the person spec. So whether you, you know, however you decide to format your, you know, your free text section, you may even use the same headings as they did on the person spec and just make it clear how you meet each one of those. It doesn't have to be done like that, but however you choose to do it. Use similar language, similar headings, and just make it really easy for them to go down your interview and go, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Yep, they've got all of the things that we need.

Yeah, because that is how they're going to mark it. They're not marking it against some abstract feeling. There is a job spec, there is essential criteria, person spec, there's essential criteria and desirable criteria. You're going to be marked against them. And so, if you meet them, you meet them. You can't make up the things that you don't meet, but if you meet them, you don't want them to have to be pulling out, have they done this, have they done that, and trying to decipher from lengthy paragraphs. Just make it really, really obvious.

Yeah.

And what do you think about this, about culling people when they've got, say they've got, I mean, we see it quite a lot, 20 applicants for 2 jobs or something like that? And so, it does feel a bit unfair in some ways when they only shortlist 8 people or whatever, but it also saves 20 people unnecessarily going through the interview process. So, I think it's like a double-edged sword as to whether it's good or bad. I don't know what you think about it.

I feel quite conflicted about this because on the one hand, I think If you meet the person spec, you should be interviewed.

You should get— yeah.

Um, so, so I suppose that's the kind of starting point. But then I also do roll my eyes when I hear about 15 people being interviewed for one post, because actually the odds are clearly against you in that situation.

Literally, yes.

And, and also, you know, for the, for the panel, you know, that's 5 or 6 people spending a day or more of interviewing. Is that honestly a good use of anyone's time? And honestly, are they going to be listening very hard to the 15th person? Um, so I just think from a practical point of view, it doesn't really work. Um, but part of me thinks, you know, actually, if we— maybe they just need to think really clearly about what the person spec is for this job.

Mm-hmm.

Um, maybe they need to have some scoring criteria. I mean, they probably have got some scoring criteria. That recognizes, prioritizes certain aspects of the person's spec, I guess.

Well, what usually happens, I think, when they cull it like that, because they've got too many people applying, and I tend to think, like you've said, it's just better that they just do it at that stage. It does feel a bit unfair because you think, well, if I'm not in the room, then I can't show them how great I am. But realistically, if they It's just a waste of everyone's time. But most commonly, I think they just say, well, we have to cut it somewhere. So, if you've not got consultant experience, or you've not got whatever it is experience, then we've not shortlisted you. And that does feel unfair to people who are final year trainees. But if there are a lot of people already who are already in consultant roles applying, I think that's essentially how they cut it. I don't know, have we heard of it being cut in any other way that people have been told? That seems to be really what people are told.

I think that's generally the bottom line, that if you haven't got consult— if it's hugely oversubscribed and they've got loads of people who've already got consultant experience, then they are probably the ones that get shortlisted. Yeah.

And I suppose it's— sorry, go on, what were you going to say?

I was going to say it's kind of a side note, but I think sometimes people say, oh well, we'll shortlist 10 people for one job because they can have some interview experience. I personally don't think that's a good thing. Um, you know, if you want interview experience, we can give that to you.

Yeah, but you don't need to take up a teacher's time.

Don't put yourself under that amount of stress. But also, actually, it is a huge amount of stress and time commitment preparing for an interview. If the odds are so wildly against you, just in terms of numbers, Then actually, I don't think it's fair to make people do all that prep. No.

It's also massive. Yeah, it's the time taken up, but also the recovery and being so demoralized by getting knocked back from a job. Because even if you knew there were 10 people going and the odds were really not in your favor, it just feels so bad that you then carry that on to the next interview. So there are consequences beyond just turning up on the day, and it is time.

Yeah.

And I think, so if it happens, you're not being shortlisted because you're a final year trainee, it's very competitive, and there's lots of consultants, that you can't do anything about. You are what you are, you know, there's nothing you can do. But you just need to make sure that it's not for a reason that's within your control. And we've seen some clangers, haven't we, where people have just not filled out applications properly, and not read what they've been asking. And that's a waste. That's a real shame when that happens.

I think the key point is, if there's specific instructions on there about how they want you to complete this form, complete it that way. Also, this is not something to be starting at 8 PM when the interview— when the application form— when the thing closes at midnight. That's not when to do it, because you're going to need to amass evidence and all of this kind of stuff. Um, and so sometimes they say on application forms, um, you know, in the free text bit, only tell us information that you haven't previously told us. So do that. Don't repeat everything, because if they've got to read 10 tonnes of stuff to get to the actual things that they need, they're just going to get cheesed off before the end of it and probably stop reading it properly.

Yeah.

Um, I think the other thing is don't, don't expect them to read your CV if they haven't asked for one. So, if they ask you to upload your CV, that's absolutely fine, but still answer all the questions appropriately. You know, they've put them on there for a reason. If they haven't asked you for your CV, they're not going to read it. So, you've got to cover everything on your application form that would have been in your CV.

Yep, great advice. Okay, so we've covered quite a lot of ground today, I think, and we shall wrap up there. We've got more great stuff coming next week, including talking about some tips about how to choose a good example for tell me about a time you had a conflict with a colleague, which is one that always— people always get stressed about and really struggle to find the difficult ones. So we'll chat about that then. Thanks for chatting to me, Becky.

See you soon.