Part 1 of Season 4 Episode 16: Irina Gorin - “Piano, Pedagogy, Pioneering” with Irina Gorin, Creator of the "Tales of a Musical Journey" Series and Founder of The Gorin Institute

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Oh, you like this song? Okay, so feet flat, right? Big arms, strong body like a horse rider, feet in stirrups. Closer to the black keys. And it starts on D. Good. And which finger is this? What finger? 2. Meow. Deeper.

Meow.

Cat, bow, wow, says sad dog. Oink, oink, says Zeppik and Squeak. Gozemaus. You did such a good job. Milečka, look, what did you do like that? Remember when we use monkey swing? You still have your monkey. Which part of the arm is moving? Which part? The wrist. We don't move the whole body or the elbow, right?

See?

No, no, no, no, just the wrist, honey.

Welcome back to another episode of The Piano Pod. Here, tradition meets innovation. We bridge the timeless beauty of the piano with the dynamic pulse of today's world. I am your host, Yukimi Song. The title of today's episode is Piano Pedagogy Pioneering with a very special guest, Ms. Irina Goran, educator, creator of Tales of a Musical Journey method books, and founder of the Goran Institute. She has become one of the most sought-after pedagogues and speakers at music educators' conferences, masterclasses, and workshops, sharing her expertise and passion for teaching music and mentoring fellow piano teachers worldwide. We've wanted to interview her since Season 1, but we were not able to book her till really recently. Ms. Goran is in such high demand. Finally, I decided to get in touch with an old friend of mine from college, Amy, amazing pianist and piano teacher based in the West Coast, and she came to my rescue. She was able to connect me directly to Ms. Goran. So I'm very excited to invite Irina Goran and hear her story today. And also, I asked you guys on Facebook and Instagram if you have any questions for Ms. Goran, and I received several questions and feedback from you, so thank you for participating. I added your questions to the list of topics we will be discussing during the show, so be sure to watch or listen to this special episode till the end. Before getting started, let me read a brief bio of today's guest. Miss Irina Goran is renowned for her pioneering piano teaching techniques, particularly for young children and beginners. Born in Ukraine and carrying over 30 years of teaching experience. She has made significant contributions to children's piano education globally. Her instructional series, Tales of a Musical Journey and Musical Journey, merge Eastern European and Western teaching methods to effectively introduce beginners to classical piano. These books have been translated into 14 languages and are utilized in over 90 countries. In addition to writing, Ms. Gorn actively engages with the piano community by conducting workshops, master classes, and serving as a judge at competitions. During the COVID pandemic, she established The Gorn Institute to further support and enrich piano pedagogy worldwide. This institute offers a variety of educational programs that continue to influence piano teachers globally with her innovative teaching approaches. So in this episode, we'll be diving into a discussion with Ms. Goran, exploring the core of her Tales of a Musical Journey method books, the reasons behind their creation, the key to her successful teaching approach, and how she supports fellow piano teachers globally through her organization, the Goran Institute, and more. But before we dive in, a warm welcome to new listeners and a big thank you to our faithful TPP fans. Don't forget to rate and review the show on your favorite podcasting platform. Dear TPP fans and listeners, I am thrilled to welcome today's guest to start our conversation. Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. Welcome, Irina, to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with you, and thank you for being here today.

Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm very honored and excited.

Oh, thank you. So I have been wanting to interview you since the start of this show in 2020, so finally my dream as a podcaster came true today, and yay! And we have a lot to cover in such a limited amount of time, so let's get into it. A colleague of mine introduced me to your Method books, Tales of a Musical Journey, years ago, and I was instantly captivated by the illustrations in the book. They reminded me of the old fables and children's stories from my childhood. I've gained some young beginner piano students recently after letting go of my high school students for college, so I decided to research, and then I decided to use your books with my beginner students and made me realize the importance of engaging them in the world of music and piano in a more imaginative way from the start. And the kids love the storytime, and I appreciate how the books introduce new concepts through characters and stories. It's really made my teaching beginners a lot more fun and encouraging, you know, it encourages imagination and creativity to children. So what inspired you to create your Piano Method book series?

It probably will not sound very exciting, but what inspired me was desperation. When I immigrated from Ukraine, and I had been teaching there for 13 years before I came to the United States, even though I had a very Intensive Pedagogy, not only piano performance, but piano pedagogy training, which included 9 years of weekly group classes and teaching under supervision of my own teacher. I loved teaching it. It's a passion since I was a child. And in my mind, I was the best teacher before I started teaching. My own students. And then I realized that all my knowledge and all my experience as a college student teaching with my teacher worth nothing when it comes to beginners.

Yeah, it's a little— a totally different ball game.

Yeah, absolutely. We had only a few method books back in Ukraine. They didn't upgrade. There were no much new materials coming up. We still use those that I used as a child. But with time, children change. Technology changes. And of course, those books I learned with were not as good for kids I was teaching. It was new generation. They seemed bored. They seemed uninterested. I didn't know how to fill the lesson with, with things, with activities, because I wasn't taught that. I, I read tons of books on piano performance, on piano technique. Uh, we worked on musical form with the student on analysis, but with 6-year-old child, you can't do these things. And especially I couldn't do them with existing method books. But because piano education in Ukraine was quite different, it wasn't private education. It was a system. It was a school. We had certain requirements and we had at least 2 individual lessons a week, 45 minutes lesson per student, plus tons of group lessons like solfeggio, theory, music history, accompaniment, ensemble, choir. So it was very different. So I just went with the flow and I actually, besides feeling not excited about teaching beginners and looking forward until they pass this first stage, I had good results. Let's say. And when I arrived to the United States, of course I wanted to see what teachers teach with, and I went to the music shop where I experienced a real cultural shock. Hundreds of colorful, beautiful, amazing books. And I spent all my budget for a month, my family budget, in that shop in that one day because I, I was hungry for these things. And I thought it was amazing. Uh, it had artworks, it had lyrics to the songs, the font was big. It was only one song per page. After, in Ukrainian books, we had like 5, 6 songs. Per page, no artworks, no anything, very small font. And I started teaching with these books, and I tried probably everything we had in '90s here in the United States, every single one. To my dismay, the results were terrible. I expected my students to get to get interested, to, to be loving piano lessons. After a few lessons, it all went down. It was worse than with my old books, which of course I couldn't use here. The old books, it was out of the question. So I started during the lessons creating some kind of games. Um, trying to get kids to listen to music, to use their imagination, trying to make up little stories for the pieces they were playing. The problem was in method books they were not actually pieces, they were 5-finger patterns. How many emotions or feelings you can put in 5 notes that go in different order? Uh, it was a real struggle, but The biggest challenge and puzzle for me was why my students in the United States were so crippled physically. There was so much tension in the whole body, in the hands, in fingers. Uh, I've read in one of the method book, I think, Monster Claw. And their hands looked like monster claws, especially younger kids, because they had to stretch all their fingers over 5 piano keys. And pianos are not designed for children, they're designed for adults. But even my hand, I, I have huge hand, I can reach interval 11s easily.

No way, really?

Even when I put my hand in a relaxed position on the piano, I don't cover 5 keys easily. I do have to stretch a little bit. So imagine 5, 6-year-old coming to the lesson and you immediately show them how to stretch and this way accumulate tension. It was absolutely new for me. As much as it seemed logical, and it seemed like it would give instant results because it's very, uh, logical. You put 5 fingers over 5 keys, move your fingers, and you get Ode to Joy by Beethoven. But with time, I realized how crippling it was and how children didn't learn how to use their wrist, either of the function, because wrist is one of the most important joints in our body for playing the piano. But with 5-finger position, when hand is stretched, you can't really use your wrist in any direction— not vertical, not horizontal, not circular, not rotating, because fingers are glued to the keys and you just push them with the whole hand, which brings even more tension. And another thing that happened to me within the first 10-15 years of teaching in the United States, that kids start piano lessons much earlier than we used to start in Ukraine. For example, I started as 5 and a half year old, but my sister was teaching me at home at first. In the music school, you could enter only after you turn 6, and then you still have the whole year of preparatory level, and then you go to the first grade. Here I got students who were tiny. They were 4, 5 years old with small stature and I couldn't even imagine doing this, stretching their fingers, especially with 4 or 5-year-old. How you can start lessons saying quarter note has 1 beat? What does it tell a child? And half note has 2 beats. And that's how most of the method books start. And then you start playing. And of course they don't, they have no idea about relationship between 1 beat and 2 beats. And they count it. They count, they learn to count, but it's, It doesn't sound right because no instilled sense of the rhythm. And in 2010—

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Uh, one of my existing students brought her little sister to the lesson, and this tiny 4-year-old— she just turned 4— She said, I want to take piano lessons. And I couldn't say no to her, but she was so little, so tiny. It was right before summer break. And I thought, at least I have these 3 months or 2 months to think about how even start piano with her. And in summer, it's always easier schedule because a lot of people are on vacations. So I just sat down at one moment. And I started kind of thinking through what can I tell, how can I introduce her to piano and what to do and use the technique I used in Ukraine, which wasn't 5-finger position. It doesn't have a name. In fact, I call it finger number 3 approach, but all the beginning, uh, tunes, melodies, pieces are played only with finger number 3. And this way the students inevitably, without forcing them, learn to use their wrist and switching from tension when they press the key to relaxation when they release the key. With balancing on finger number 3, they learn all the functions of the wrist. They learn how to support their weight from the upper body when we go to the keyboard through the fingertips. So it happens naturally. Then they easily transfer to finger numbers 2 and 4, and only then— and for children it usually takes different time— we go to finger number 5, which requires a lot more of horizontal wrist motion, and then much later thumb. And even though at first the process, the progress seems slower, uh, by the time they play 5 fingers they already absorbed all the fundamental skills. And that's what we call non-legato. Unfortunately, and I tried to raise this question in many piano teacher forums and at all my workshops in the United States and around the world, except Eastern Europe, people have no idea about this articulation. They think it's not existing. If it's called non-legato, they think it means it's not articulation, it's just no legato, not connected. We actually had different word in Ukraine. We use the word portamento for the articulation, which is fundamental and it has to come before legato and staccato. But here it means a violin articulation. It doesn't apply to piano. So it was struggle for me to find. I did very long and deep research on all these things and came to the conclusion that it is in fact called non-legato. So non-legato, naturally, when kids master it, it naturally evolves into two-note slurs and more to legato eventually and staccato. That comes very easily and quickly and with good sound and without any tension. This little girl, her name is Chinyao, inspired me along with all my previous years of desperation to write the book. And I wrote for each lesson with her, I wrote a story that would introduce her to certain concepts. And by the end of her first year, she just turned 5, she was able to play simple pieces from children's repertoire, even from Anna Magdalena Bach, short pieces by Diabelli, little etudes by Czerny. She, and she started developing very, very well. And that was the year I actually started posting my videos on YouTube. And I posted videos with her, me teaching her. And I started receiving tons of emails. From teachers. What methods, what method are you teaching with? And I didn't even have a book. I had just papers. I never even in my wildest dream would think it will become a method book. That, that's how it happened.

Wow. And then basically you revolutionized the, um, early childhood education in piano teaching.

You know, it wasn't the purpose to revolutionize. In fact, I didn't invent the wheel. All I applied is something I learned from my own education, from my own experience, through my struggles. And what I actually did, I adapted it and made this good sequence of how to teach and what to teach after, and also adapted it for a young age, created stories, created lyrics. It wasn't very good in the first year because I'm not a native speaker. So it took 2 editions and a lot of helpers to finally have it in a good shape. But at least all my students understood me. That was good. And parents. So I wouldn't say revolutionary method. It's not something that comes out of nowhere. It's just thinking through and bringing out what needs to be done at the first lessons. Especially what difficult thing about all the resources I studied and researched, all the works of famous pedagogues, None of them actually worked with ordinary children. They all had gifted kids because they were big names. If they wrote a book about pedagogy, they definitely were big names, pedagogues who would never work with a child who doesn't practice, who doesn't have talent, or at least brilliant ear or natural velocity. And that's the biggest challenge because for all my 40 years of teaching, I probably had 4 or 5 above average kids. I never even experienced huge talents, you know, from, from nature that were born pianists. But with Tales of a Musical Journey, I could develop ordinary kids in outstanding ones. And that, that's probably the biggest pride I take because all my students can play well. I, when, when I watch my own recitals, I know what these kids struggle with. I know their challenges, but no one else can tell it. On many occasions, I was accused of being elite teacher, teaching elite students, that teaching only gifted kids. And I know for sure that this is not the case.

Really? Because I'm watching, I usually refer a lot of pieces through your YouTube channel, like how you're teaching, and then they looked like a gifted students.

Yes, as I told you, I, I always do an initial interview with the family who inquires to take lessons, and I never ever choose a child by their abilities. In fact, I love pedagogical challenges. I love to see those changes in the students. But what is really important for me, I choose parents, actually. I choose family who trusts me, who would follow my suggestions, who would not question my intentions. And if we are on the same page, then I don't care how much or how little the kid is talented. I can do a lot. I'll play for you now. You quickly turn around and play this note.

I would like to discuss this amazing book now, so let's just get in into the inside of this method book. So can you introduce us to fun characters in the book?

Yes. When I prepared for Lessons with Little Qinyao, that summertime I took to study how kids learn, young children, preschool ages. And what I've learned, they don't get things from explanations or demonstrations. Only through analogies, through images, through stories, through artwork. They need to see, they need to hear, they need to imagine, and they need to feel or experience. And all of that I try to use. So when I created the stories, they're not just stories. They have characters, each of those have their own theory concept. For example, Fairy Musicalina is a magic creature that comes— she has wings, so she can fly in anytime anyone has any musical trouble and help them with. Other characters are King Meter, one of the main characters. So With him, his character, I introduce kids to the word meter and to the concept of the beat, along with Withered Metronome, who work together. Prince Rhythm introduces the relationship between short and long sounds. Princess Melody brings a concept of melody. Sir Grandpalina is the evil magician who muted the notes and turned them into rests. I have many animal characters who first they introduce the notes. For example, I have them in this box.

I have them too.

Cat C for middle C, deer for D, and so on. But also they teach us some very important technical skills. For example, when I introduce staccato, Freddy the Frog— and it's already our beloved character because it's note F— but it also was very talented in jumping. So when we learn staccato, we put Freddy the Frog on our wrist and have him jump far away. And try and see, they immediately learn a good the cut. Of course, now it's— if you try it on the first lesson, it's not gonna work. Of course, to come to that point, they need to learn all other prior skills to that. But all these characters— or we have a song about butterfly, and also we have a butterfly that we put on our wrist, and it teaches us vertical wrist motion. The butterfly flies from note to note. And then I don't have to tell them, you need to relax your wrist or lift your wrist off or float off your wrist. I just say, where's butterfly? And immediately their wrists start floating. Or there is another very hard concept as horizontal wrist motion. Which a lot of students lacking, again, because of 5-finger position, because they're so stuck and keep their thumb always on the certain note that they don't move your wrist toward 5th finger as we have to. So we have another character, a little monkey. We put it on the wrist. It has a Velcro. And when on the key, we, we sway a baby monkey. And say, "Wee, wee," and he's doing it on long notes, on the whole notes first. And then we can add it to playing 3, 4, and 5 fingers, or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Again, I don't need to explain them. In fact, music is such an abstract thing, and movement will be different for each individual. Student. We can't measure it and say, move your wrist half an inch to the right. We can't tell it to children. But if I say monkey swing, where's our little monkey? And it immediately becomes natural and what their body feels like doing. Uh, some other props I have, especially with transfer kids, I use this little rubber elastic band. To teach them to relax, to feel the weight of the hand. I use that to help them to transfer from note to note. So I try to find things that are close to them, that they don't find it weird or, you know, foreign. And they love it because it's fun. It turns into a game instead of really like instructional. Do this, do that.

Great. Because, you know, I think one of my audiences, they had a question. So, you know, when I am trying to teach piano technique, their reaction is, you know, like, oh, like rolling their eyes because it's boring to them.

I never even say the word technique.

That's smart.

We only play games and we use all these props and stories, because if children have a vivid image, very vivid image in their head, it's so much easier for them to do certain movement or gesture or even produce a sound, find certain ways to produce a sound because they can describe what they want. To be able to play on the piano and do it well, you need to know how you want it to sound. If you have no idea, if you have no image of that sound, it will not sound good.

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So thanks to American students that you learned from where you felt like at the time they're really tight, rigid in their posture and whatever. So that's one of the inspirations. And then so that's the reason your book method books and your method of teaching really focus on piano technique.

Um, yes and no. I don't think piano technique is the most important thing in piano teaching. Imagine box of tools, like tools for house repair, and you don't know which tool is used for what. Would they be a lot of help? Of course not. You need to know why you need those tools. And how to use them. So for me personally, and actually right now I'm reading amazing book called Famous, Famous Masters, I think, and Their Technique, written by Juilliard former professor Reginald Garrick. Absolutely amazing book. And the first chapter is called What Is Technique? And the whole chapter is is filled with quotes of the most famous and amazing pianists, pianists and pedagogues from around the world. And they are all, I would say, opposite. Some say the technique is the most important thing. The others say no, musical, uh, the sound is the most important thing. For me personally, and again, There could be other opinion. Technique is the tool to produce beautiful tone. That's the goal. That's why we learn all of these, to be able to express ourselves and feel comfortable while doing that. Feel rhythm. Otherwise we don't need technique. That's, that's what I think. And that's why in my books, The stories, the songs, they all work for developing students' imagination and making them active participants in the lessons rather than passive observers. So they participate, they, they want to experience, experiment, they want to try, uh, they want to learn, they want to know what's next because all the stories like in a chapter book. It's not separate fairy tale. It's like in a chapter book. They go, they start in the beginning, they go through both levels, and that creates thirst for what's next. And kids, sometimes they come to the lesson and say, oh, I already read next chapter.

Yes, same thing happened to me using your book. A lot of students are like, I already read the next chapter, and I already read even next after that. So they know the story already. So that's great.

That makes my work so much easier.

How many levels are there? So I have this, you know, the basic one, and I also have different Musical Journey etudes and duets and many more.

So Tales of a Musical Journey come in two levels. Level 1 and Level 2, which teachers should be able to cover first year of lessons with these books. And then I feel that children do not need method books anymore. Everything else could be introduced while playing good pieces, which there are a lot of them in the world written by big composers, small composers, pedagogues. And folk songs from different countries. No, I mean, in Five Finger Position Method you probably could find few traditional songs and maybe one arrangement of a classical song, but I want them to get into the world of real music as soon as possible. So Musical Journey, not Tales, but Musical Journey, that purple series, I'll have already 4 Different levels of those. These are collection of those amazing pedagogical and classical pieces that I start actually while in the second book of Mu— of Tales. I use them for the recital, for extra sight reading, for extra duets, and then children smoothly transition and thanks to Another teacher, Ek Mar, who created activity books for Old Tales and Level 1 of Musical Journeys. They have activities, theory activities to do with that, and some creative activities like composition and improvisation, ear training things. We, I always incorporate all of them in my lessons.

Really? Not just a traditional note reading, but No, no, no.

All my students, in almost every lesson, we do something to give them excitement, feel of accomplishment, develop their creativity, develop their ear. So many teachers ask me in my conferences and courses, students don't like polyphonic music. How to make them like Bach? They hate it, and I, the teacher, saying, I don't like it either. It will not happen if we don't develop the ear for that. When students from the first lessons learn to listen the sound, single sounds, and to listen to a motive of 2 or 3 sounds, then they hear 1 sound in the left hand, 2 sounds in the right hand, they start developing this polyphonic ear, and then they will love polyphonic music when they come to it, especially playing a lot of folk songs which are all written in polyphonic imitative style. But unfortunately, existing method books— that's another very big disadvantage— they introduce children practically at once to homophonic style of music, and of course then they— teachers have trouble with balancing right and left hand because students don't understand how it all works and have trouble playing chords because it's so tense. So working on composition, uh, working on improvisation, on ear training, it's an integral part of every lesson, especially first year.

So it's so good that you incorporate all that very important essence of music into a book because as a music teacher, it's really overwhelming, right? And although we have the training and knowledge, but it's like, it's too much information and I don't know where to start. And the kids need the structured and step-by-step instruction. Before continuing this fun episode, I'd like to take a moment to highlight The Piano Pod's valued sponsor, PH Media Studio. Whose generous support helps us make this episode possible. Attention, The Piano Pod fans! I have exciting news just for you. Our website has undergone an incredible transformation. Ta-da! Welcome to the newly revamped website, featuring exclusive interviews with celebrated pianists and educators, showcasing podcast episodes, and captivating YouTube content. There's a lot to discover for every piano enthusiast just like you. With an intuitive design and smooth navigation, your journey through thepianopod.com is more fun than ever. And meet the creative force at the heart of this transformation— Poki Wang. With his latest venture, PH Media Studio, Poki has reimagined The Piano Pod's digital space into a sanctuary for all piano lovers. So head over to our website to immerse yourself in the piano universe and discover the magic firsthand today. And if you are an independent artist like myself and want to elevate your online presence, look no further than PH Media Studio. Trust me, you won't be disappointed. So go to phmediastudio.com to see his amazing portfolio. So get in touch with the amazing Pokey Huang today for more information. By the time they finish, let's say, first 2 method books, where are they at level? Maybe you mentioned a little bit the girl that you first— you taught, she was able to play maybe minuet.

Yeah, everyone is a different level because of different abilities. Different practice ethics, different amount of lessons per week, different ages. I never try to categorize my students. So by the end of level 1, you have to be here, or by the end of first year, by the end of second year, you have to be here. Everybody develops differently, but my real goal is to immerse them in real music as soon as possible. As soon as they can. Usually in the second year, I start introducing some simple etudes, and that's all in Musical Journey. If you look inside, you can see that most of these pieces are still very short because usually when kids start at 4 or 5, by the time they finish, still, they're still very young. They're still 6 or 7, right? And all of the pieces, I feel like they have to be short to give children opportunity to learn a lot of those. Because when I get to sheet music of level 1, let's say, of American composers, they are 2 pages long, even in method books. Starting from level 1, a lot of pieces are already 16 measures long. 32 measures long, 2 pages long, and sometimes it takes months just to learn the notes even though they are in the same finger position, but it's, it's, it's not fun. Kids forget how to read notes. So my goal was to compile this book of pieces that are super short, that are easy to learn the notes. So we have time to really work on musicality, on developing new skills, necessary skills to play it musically, right? So some kids go through this Level 1A very quickly. For some kids, it could take a semester or even two, and it's okay. As long as they don't stay on the same piece for too long. I would say for after first year, they still need to be able to learn a few pieces every 3, 4 weeks. I actually, in my pedagogy courses, I have the whole session about choosing the right repertoire for children. It's so important to give them something for technique, like little etude, folk song for developing polyphonic hearing. And we are talking about the youngest. Some classical homophonic piece, like maybe Tiny Deer Belly or Turk pieces or Leopold Mozart, some minuets by Haydn and Leopold Mozart. And of course, contemporary pieces, some with jazzy styles, which usually I teach the youngest ones by ear. Yes, because again, they can't understand jazz rhythm in such a young age. It will take ages, they will hate it. They will still— until you know fractions really, really well, until you understand fractions, how can you understand these complex rhythms? But when you have a nice accompaniment and repetitive pattern, they get it really quickly. Even I'm teaching now my 5-year-old granddaughter, and I can tell how happy she is to learn those things that it would take months for me to explain to her, and she can play them with ease just by ear. So I don't really like the term "by rote," which a lot of teachers use these days. I never even heard this word before the past 10-15 years. I really do think teaching playing by ear is very, very important. Important. Teaching to transpose, teaching to pick up the melodies. And with my students, I usually have like each month devoted to certain activity. Like this month we transpose something, this month we play by ear something we pick up. I pick up for them. They want— I want them to play by ear. This month we compose and so on. For me, by rote, it's just imitating or copying teacher's hand without actually involving the ear. Or a lot of teachers who love 5-finger positions, which I think because they don't know the other way. For me, it's easy to say because I experienced both and with my level of education, I don't think I did something wrong with 5-finger positions to not appreciate them, but experience in both ways. I can tell how many, you know, advantages, disadvantages each one has. So even when they play only with finger number 3 and I ask them to pick up by ear, they will not use the sequence of fingering to find the next note. They'll use the ear to do that. But when you introduce certain things in 5-finger position and ask them to play by rote, it just learning the finger pattern. Sometimes I help my students. I don't say I never show them anything. If they have trouble, I don't mind to help. And I, I can tell them, here you move a little bit up, here you can skip down, but the rest they find themselves. So I want, again, I want them to be active. I want them to take initiative and be curious.

Yeah. Yeah.

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Can you share any success stories or anecdotes from students who have used your method books to learn piano? I'm sure, I mean, thousands of them, but maybe one or two that struck You know, kids say the darn cute things in the lesson.

That's why I enjoy these young ages so much. They are probably my favorite age to teach, even though of course I like all my students. I love teaching them, and especially when we get to a real repertoire, it's amazing. But, uh, these kids, they never filter what they say, and It's really hard for me because every lesson brings something, and it's not— it doesn't have to be connected with Tales of a Musical Journey. Like, some kids, their focus is so switching, and that shows how important for us to keep changing activities often and get them curious and interested and participating in the lesson so they don't lose that focus. But I had a little boy and in the middle of my explanation or in the middle of just doing things, his eyes suddenly catch his feet and he says, I have new socks. I lost my old ones.

Those are classic. Yeah.

Yeah. Another, I have now a girl, Claire, who cracks me up every lesson she has. Do anything I say, she adds her own interpretation and it's so funny. The other day I was explaining to her, she played and put her thumb flat on the side. And I say, you know, your thumb looks so sleepy and tired. It should be awakened. It should be alert. And she says, right, not like It wants to fall asleep. Like, I want to go party at 9 o'clock in the morning.

Oh, that's funny.

Very early, I introduced students to playing duets practically from the first lessons. At first I play with them and then I start putting them together back to back. And one of my other students, Jerry, because he's like tall boy, and I didn't have other boys at the time, and I always put them with girls. So he used to play second, seconda in duets. And it's not because, um, I wanted it. It just happened mostly because he was more advanced and the seconda is like a teacher's part. And once he said, Why should I do all this work and no one even sees me? Because I always play seconda. So I said, okay, I'm playing with you and I'll be seconda, you'll be prima.

Oh, cute. Yeah, they are the best. And then, you know, honestly, they are so, so lucky to have you as a teacher.

Oh, thank you. Oh, blessed with all my students. Honestly, I love them all.

But really, honestly, they're learning from the get-go from the master, right? I mean, that's so special. I took a little, like, 3 months of violin lesson when I was a kid, and then, you know, at that time you record yourself on a cassette tape and then you send it to the Suzuki headquarters, and then actually Mr. Suzuki recorded his comment on the other side of the cassette tape. So that's how special It was, and that's how I think your students feel special learning from you.

You know, I don't really want them to feel like, oh, I'm— even though I did have some kids who would come to me with my book and my pictures and, is it you? But I'm trying to build a very trusting and warm relationship with each child so they don't feel that much of a distance. I want them to be able to share things with me. I want to not to be only their piano instructor. I want to be their mentor, their friend, their piano parent. And only this way we can really hope for really good results. If students are afraid of a teacher or feel, oh, I'm so little, she's so, so big, I— it will not work well. So my students come, give me hugs. When they leave, they give me hugs, and they don't mind when I touch their hand and try to show with my hand. They trust me and they feel close to me and they share things that bother them. And I always ask at the lesson how their day was or their week, anything that bothered them or anything exciting happened, and they love sharing.

Hey there, TPP family! The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song is now into our 4th season, and it's all thanks to you. Since 2020, you've in with my journey with the TPP, exploring this burning question: How do we make classical music resonate with today's audience in fresh and captivating ways? 4 years in, and the journey has been nothing short of magical. The Piano Pod isn't just a podcast; it's a movement, a space where pianists, composers, and educators brainstorm, debate, and reimagine classical music's place in our fast-paced world. We're together on a mission to ensure classical music doesn't just survive but thrives in our modern age. But here's the thing: to keep bringing you these insightful biweekly episodes, I need your help. Every bit of support goes into the podcast's essentials, from hosting to high-quality recording tech, and the countless hours behind the scenes. So, do you want to be part of this journey, click the PayPal link in the show notes or head to thepianopod.com to donate. And as a token of appreciation, I will personally mail you The Piano Pod's snazzy logo sticker. So hit the subscribe button, spread the word, and let's continue our mission and journey as classical musicians. Now let's continue with the show. Your books are so loved by not just people in North America, but worldwide. So at this point, how many countries are you reaching out to? How many languages this method book is being translated to?

So it's been, it's been translated to 15 languages, but now it's in work in 2 more or even 3 more.

Now, so, but what would be the challenge? Because, you know, you speak multiple languages and so do I. So translation is tricky because you think of one sentence, but in other language you have to sort of explain in the different ways. And of course there's a cultural context as well that you have to consider. What are some challenges like that?

To tell you the truth, I never translated it to any other language. And I never asked for translation. Teachers asked me, they contacted me and asked me if they can translate my book to different language. In fact, very interesting story. After 2 years of just introducing this as a method book, or even the first year, I get an email from a young lady from Colombia. And she said, I'm sorry, I took a liberty, but here are your books in Spanish and attached files, completely new artwork and all done.

Wow.

Uh, her name is Juliana Reina, and we are very good friends now. And this year she's organizing Tales Festival in Colombia. On May 22nd through 26th, where kids will have to play pieces from Tales and Musical Journey with orchestras.

Wow.

So what do you think the attribute to this success, your teaching method, and what aspects of your books do you believe resonate strongly with fellow piano instructors worldwide?

You know, I can only convey what teachers told me. Not what I think, because it's hard for me to think for other people, but what they say mostly when they see my students and the process of my teaching, which I post a lot of my lessons, just entire lessons on, on YouTube. When they watch it and try even some little things and see immediate results they never want to go back to the way they taught. And it's just word of mouth. I haven't ever used any marketing tools. I never paid for any advertisements. Only things I did, I posted my videos on YouTube and I started my own Facebook group. And I also participate in other Facebook groups and sometimes post post my videos. But when teachers see how my beginners play and compare to those kids who really struggle with 5 Finger Position Methods, they become curious and they try it. And then they feel, okay, if this— they, they think, if this works, then maybe other things will also work. Maybe I'll try the whole book. And they get the book. And I don't know real percentage But most of the teachers who once try the book, they continue using it. I have lots of requests for a book for older beginners because kids who are older than 7, 8, 9, they might not receive well princess and prince, you know, this stuff. So right now I'm in the process. I'm almost finishing the book for older beginners. And the main work is done, uh, and designing will start now. So hopefully maybe a few months and it will be ready. It will not have stories or colorful artworks. It will be targeted toward kids above 8, 9, up to adults, but the sequencing and musical material will be the same. A little bit more detailed explanation of why we need this technique, why, for example, wrist is important, something I don't use with little kids, but for older kids, they, and especially adults, they want to know, they think logically. They want to know why I need to use wrist this way or that way, why I need to lift fingers, not that way, but this way. So I try to work a little bit with that logic and give them a little food for thought and way to experience and experiment. But hopefully it will be helpful for those teachers who want to try non-positional method.

And that's a wrap for the first part of this exciting episode on The Piano Pod with with a guest, Irina Gorin, the visionary behind the Tales of a Musical Journey method book series and founder of the Gorin Institute. If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review us on your favorite podcasting platform. You can also watch this episode on The Piano Pod's YouTube channel. Please find us on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn. All the links are in the Tune in next Tuesday, April 23rd at 8 PM for the rest of the interview with Irina Goran.

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