Part 2 of Season 4 Episode 2: A Team of A Seat at the Piano

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So A Seat at the Piano is essentially a platform to raise the voices of a lot of composers who have been less heard or historically excluded or underrepresented. So it is a database, it is a resource, it's a blog, it's kind of a lot of different things that we've combined into one, kind of a one-stop shop for a lot of pianists, teachers, students to go to if they're seeking different kinds of repertoire that are outside of the normal kind of canon.

The mission of ASAP is to promote and include the music of composers that hasn't necessarily been in the forefront, you know. So basically we're trying to catch up with the inclusion of works of piano music from composers from historically excluded groups.

Hello, piano enthusiasts. You're tuned into The Piano Pod with me, Yukimi Song. We're diving into Part 2 of the season's second episode with the brilliant minds behind A Seat at the Piano, aka ASAP: Annie Zhang, Brandon Jacklin, Evan Hines, and Susan Yang. If you missed our intriguing conversation in Part 1, where we explored ASAP's mission and how they support fellow classical pianists and educators, make sure to catch up on your go-to podcast platform. A warm welcome to our new listeners and viewers. This podcast is your all-access pass to the captivating world of piano. In each episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song, I interview a guest speaker, or for this case, guest speakers, who have been breaking exciting new ground in the music industry. Please rate the show and review it on your favorite podcasting platform because every rating review will help people find my show. So dear friends, here is part 2 of The Piano Pod season 4, episode 2, with the team of A Seat at the Piano. Please enjoy the show.

You know, uh, since the summer of 2020 you've been working on this, so it's been over 3 years, right? For me it's the same thing. This is the 4th season, so I am very grateful for this opportunity. So What's been like, what's the impact of ASAP in our industry, in our community that you started to feel, you know, after 3, 4 years? Brendan?

This will be a little egotistical.

It's okay.

One of my favorite things to do every once in a while is I just Google the C of The Piano Pod with Brendan, just to sort of see what else is out there. And it's really neat how many different universities and organizations and competitions have just started listing us as a resource and we had no idea. And like every couple of months I'll just do a check just out of curiosity and there's always a few more that have added us. And so I think, you know, just even that sort of growth with these institutions of various types offering these very different resources for people, I think does show that it is having an impact through that way at the very least.

Maybe Brendan can correct me if I'm wrong, but our website gets about on average 1,000 unique visitors a month.

Yeah, we're between 1,000 to 1,500 unique visitors a month right now, which has grown. I believe the first month our website, I remember it took about 4 months to break 100. And so that was, this is a, a pretty good growth.

I feel like we're also seeing the change amongst local and national state organizations, whether or not they have festival performance festivals, and they're, you know, a lot of these organizations will have required repertoire that students have to pick from when they're doing these festivals, and seeing that they're also utilizing our database and adding more diverse works. What we've noticed a lot is that if you don't require it, sometimes people aren't really going to do it. And sure, we'd like to say that we don't need those kinds of requirements, but unless people are at least exposed to it in a certain kind of way, and in this way, by requiring certain repertoire for competitions or festivals, that really ensures and guarantees that people are at least listening to it or learning it. And that's a really, really great start. So, you know, even my own studio, my students at my university, at University of North Carolina at Greensboro, my students have to learn at least one of their pieces each semester is of a non-traditional composer, either of a genre or of a different background. And I found that students actually are like very excited about this. Maybe a little bit hesitant at first, but then, We're really, really excited. I know Susan is doing a bit of this as well, and all of us are just encouraging our students and those around us to really be exploring these works. And sometimes that just little slight nudge of gentle requirement is what you need to do.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly— yes. Okay. Oh, Susan, your baby. Ah, so cute.

The baby is awake. I guess a fun fact, I don't know if you know, but Brendan and I are married. And oh, baby.

Oh really?

Okay, baby.

Oh wow, okay. So you, you're in a different room right now?

He's at work and I'm at home.

Gotcha. I hope your baby is okay. Um, Abby's sleeping well? Yeah, all right, good. Yeah, mostly. Yes. Yeah, wonderful. Now, so then since you started, do you, did you receive any recognition or awards?

Yes. We've definitely, I feel like, received a lot of attention and everything from a couple different organizations. This past March, we were given the— MTNA and the Frances Clark Center have teamed up to give like a National Pedagogy Award., and we were honored enough to be given that this past year, which was really exciting. And we've been in talks with both Francis Clark Center and the Music Teachers National Association as well, just to sort of like integrate our ideas into these big national organizations. And I think that is also sort of indicative of the institutional understanding of the importance of a project like this, which was really—

exciting. Yeah, that is very exciting, and congratulations. I mean, double congratulations, Brandon, because you are now a father of the little baby girl too, but also with this, these, uh, awards and recognition that your organization is receiving. Yeah, Annie, you want to add something?

I, I think just that we were very honored, of course, to get this award, but we were just kind of shocked. Like, um, a lot of this work that we've done. And maybe you can empathize with this of having started during the pandemic and getting things off the ground. It's like you don't really see the fruits of it until much later. And so we've just been kind of doing this casually for the past 2.5, 3 years now. And then all of a sudden to have all this talk about it, whether or not it's on the internet or now nationally through these two organizations, it was really kind of just jaw-dropping. Like, oh, Wow, people see what we're doing. I had no idea. Or like, you know, at these conferences and people will reference us of saying like, oh yeah, I got this information from A Seat at the Piano. We're like, oh my God, like, this is amazing. So that's just been, that's just been really, really lovely. And also the most recent NCKP, National Conference for Keyboard Pedagogy conference, we were also featured as like a PedEx talk. And so Brendan was over there and he gave a really great talk about our organization and competitions and festivals and things like that. So, yeah, it's really amazing to see all the work that we've done. And we really have put a lot of work into this, and so much of it has just been volunteers. We're not getting paid, which— yeah. So to get that recognition, it's like, oh, that's really lovely.

And Annie, really, really congratulations on that. It's the hard work, but also I admire your passion too, right? Because we are all passion-driven people, and being able to see that visually in tangible way is so encouraging for not only just you guys, but also for me as well, to hear that wonderful news about your organization. Throughout this journey, what did you gain and what important life lesson did you experience from building this organization? For me, it's been a really amazing experience doing this podcast, being able to meet you guys. Otherwise, there's, you know, I would never have, right, in a virtual way like this. And eventually I would love to meet you in person too, but What sort of important life lesson did you receive by building this organization?

I think for me, an important lesson I've learned is focus on the quality and progress, not success. So, you know, earlier when you were asking us, oh, how are you achieving your mission? But I'm thinking, I'm thinking, well, I don't know if we're ever going to be completely achieving our mission. This is like, it's about the process. It's not about the end goal. And I don't even know what the end goal is going to look like. Yeah, for me, you know, and like And he said, we did 3 years of this work and then we finally got recognized. Not that we were looking for this recognition, but it's about our passion. It's about what we're trying to do instead of seeing like an achievement, an accomplishment. So I think that's been the biggest lesson. I'm sorry. I'll end with that.

Okay. Thank you. She's agreeing with you. She's like, amen. Annie?

Yeah, I, I love that, Susan. Yeah, I think process is everything. And like, you're—

the—

our process, even with this project, it goes in ebbs and flows. Like, I think one of the big things that we've realized as a group and as a team is that, you know, we don't have the luxury of time that we had during the pandemic. Of course, there are lots of other things that we had to be occupied with as well, but we really were able to devote a lot of time to researching and adding to this database. We all have full-time jobs or being a doctoral student and it's busy. And so having to fit this in, we do as much as we can. And so the little bits of progress that we're able to make either with this, with the research that we're doing or how much we're able to share is I think the little successes that we can celebrate. Something I really have learned a lot is just how much passion and curiosity can drive people. And so just in sharing some of these works with my students, like a lot of my students, they have never even traveled outside of the state of North Carolina. And so by sharing these kinds of works, it's able to enhance their perspective of the diversity of the world through music. And that's a really kind of incredible thing that we're able to do as musicians and artists. And, you know, like anyone, anyone is capable of making this kind of change. We say this all the time. It's just a matter about doing the work. Like you've got to show up and you've got to do the work and, you know, just being excited to share that with others. You know, like a lot of times we've talked a lot about vulnerability and like when we started this, like, oh my goodness, are we even like the right people to be doing this kind of work? And it's uncomfortable at times. But I think as long as we continue doing it and to be passionate about it and to see like how fulfilling it is, um, in going through this process, it's worth doing it.

Amen with that. You have no idea how many times it's like, what am I doing? But then, you know, it's the passion that drives, right? Yes, yes, totally agree.

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Now let's go a little deeper into our conversations. Now it's a little bit more philosophical question. So what is your thought on keeping classical music relevant and industry thriving in this fast-paced society? You know, we hear, oh, I live in this, you know, sports-oriented town and nobody cares about music. And to encourage my students to continue piano lessons is just so difficult. I hear sometimes like this, or, you know, I live in a really big city where everybody is so busy, and just to have one focus on one instrument really sometimes seems so impossible. So what is your thought on that? Wow. Is it— did I Catch you off guard?

No, it's just like, it's so, it's hard, right? We all have our own lives. We all have, you know, just like things to do. Who am I to be telling you what to do, right? However, I think what's more important is that every little bit counts. I just think the more that we remain just ambassadors for this kind of work, you never know what little thing you might say to someone that can totally change the— it sounds so dramatic, but like the literally the trajectory of their life. You know, like I think of back when I was an undergrad, all it took was one conversation to sort of completely change my direction in music. I think also be willing to kind of have to talk to people. I think for a long time I've been the kind of person that I'm a, I would say, rather reserved individual. So a lot of the time I'll say, well, I'll let my work speak for itself. Or like, I love being especially a collaborative pianist because I'm like not the only one on stage. Sometimes, yeah, all it takes is one little conversation to really, to make a lasting change in someone. And that one person knows a whole different set of people, right? So as overwhelming as it looks, yeah, we are more effective than we might think sometimes.

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What is your thought on our duty or gift as classical musicians to society at large?

I mean, part of it is, I think, the joy and the hardest thing, I think, as well as about being like any type of artist, musician, you know, actor, whatever, is that I think the best thing you can do is just be sort of true to yourself when you're doing your art, whatever that might look like. I don't personally, I don't know if I have a, would describe it as a duty to an audience because I think it's more of a duty to your own artistic integrity and just kind of like looking at it that way. And then people might like it and people might not, and that's okay. You know, and then the other thing is just to realize that like there's so much more out there as well and just to be constantly exploring new things. So right now I am not by any means a jazz musician. My dad is and I can do some basic stuff, but I have a lot of students at Fisk right now who want to study piano and they want to learn to improvise. And this is new for me to do, even though I've listened to jazz my whole life. And so I think part of my sort of shifting identity as an artist and sort of what I'm doing right now is I'm also just reacting to the needs of the community. And I'm like studying how to improvise right now. And so that way I can be a more effective teacher. And I don't know if I'll ever be what I would consider as a good improviser, but I think that sort of reflection of you have to present yourself and you have to sort of react to your community, that sort of duality of being an artist is really important to hold on to as you're sort of going through this work.

Yeah, I agree. So now next question would be, What sort of innovative approaches can classical musicians employ to connect with contemporary audiences?

I mean, I think that audiences today are very different from audiences that we've had 100 years ago. We have shorter attention spans. We are all about our devices and phones and scrolling endless content, yet never exactly do they want endless classical music concerts And so I think that the interacting with our modern-day audience today is all just about engagement and how to make it either having a really thoughtful and genuine theme or idea that you're trying to convey through performance. I think a lot of times, especially young students, get into that mindset of, "I program a recital." to hit all the checkboxes that I have to play for my recital jury, you know, your Baroque piece, classical, romantic, contemporary. But there are more creative ways, I think, to program, whether or not that's thematic or whether or not that's based on a genre or some kind of idea, a quote that inspires something. I do find like visual elements, sometimes they can be extremely helpful, sometimes not. But, you know, if it's done well, is done effectively, I think it can be very, very engaging. Or I've had friends who've done concerts that have apps that go along with the concert with like live time kind of program notes. So I think of sportscasters all the time, like if when they were watching sports and they tell you detail by detail. I do not really understand sports, so I appreciate that a lot. So if someone was doing that for me and listening to a classical music, that's fantastic. That's great. Or having like interactive things. I've done some concerts where I've had people like write down words through also an app and it gets projected onto a screen. And so people get to share their ideas and create a word bubble of, you know, the way, like kind of anonymously too, which is nice. 'Cause you don't have to like, you know, speak out loud of what does this piece make you think of? How does it make you feel? Maybe like putting up an image or a video that also kind of accompanies a piece. I think that we, especially as pianists, we tend to be very kind of solitary in the ways that we work. But the more that we're able to collaborate, whether or not that's with other people or other terms of media, that's always going to be, I think, a lot more effective. And of course, like, yeah, we wish like the music could just speak for itself, like kind of with, or, you know, we do art for art's sake. But I think that's kind of just, it's a romanticized kind of way to think about how we operate as musicians and artists today, and we need to do a little bit more.

Right, absolutely. I agree with you. Hey there, TPP family!

The Piano Pod is now into our fourth season, and it's all thanks to you. Since 2020, you've been with my journey with the TPP, exploring this burning question: how do we make classical music resonate with today's audience in fresh and captivating ways? 4 years in, and the journey has been nothing short of magical. The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song isn't just a podcast; it's a movement, a space where pianists, composers, and educators brainstorm, debate, and reimagine classical music's place in our fast-paced world. We're together on a mission to ensure classical music doesn't just survive but thrives in our modern age. But here's the thing: To keep bringing you these insightful biweekly episodes, I need your help. Every bit of support goes into the podcast's essentials, from hosting to high-quality recording tech, and the countless hours behind the scenes. So, do you want to be part of this journey? Click the PayPal link in the show notes or head to thepianopot.com to donate, and as a token of appreciation, I will personally mail you The Piano Pod's snazzy logo sticker. So hit the subscribe button, spread the word, and let's continue our mission and journey as classical musicians. Now let's continue with the show.

What's the next phase and short-term goal of ASAP?

So we have a couple things on the docket that we want to get to. One is the anthologies that Annie mentioned previously, which would be just exciting for us to, like, figure out how publishing works, and also, more importantly, serves as, like, a tangible resource based on our database that just makes finding this music even easier. And then we do want to expand the types of music in our database. And so we are hoping to build up our data on works for piano four hands or for piano chamber, including two piano works, and then piano with other instruments to sort of keep expanding what we can that way. And I know those are two big things that we want to sort of build work towards in the future.

Wonderful. So the last question is, any advice—

this is just from the perspective as you being the music teachers, piano teachers, but any advice for young musicians we all work with students every single day, and there are moments when I'm teaching where I like to think of myself as being optimistic, but it's very easy to think like, oh, being a musician is really hard. Like, what am I preparing you actually for? What kind of career are you looking for after this? Um, and the only thing that like kind of helps me to keep going, and I like to think that it's the same for students, is that they are pursuing these interests for curiosity, for enjoyment, and also for hope. Because, um, I think a lot about like the Brazilian pedagogue Paul Freire. He wrote this book, Pedagogy of Hope, and he says, um, something along the lines of like, there's, there's no change without a dream, just as there is no dream without hope. So like, if you don't have that hope and you don't have It can be kind of abstract in any kind of way, but we have to have something that's driving us. And that my hope being for them is that they're able to impact someone's life, whether or not it's through their music or through their interests in art in some kind of way. And I like to pull quotes from other people because I feel like they say it much better than I do. But another person I think of is Brené Brown. Who's just a really wonderful speaker. And we talk about this too within our group and our team of we're not here to be right, but we're here to get it right. And so it's all about process and the process is going to be forever going. This is not a sprint. We did actually a whole presentation about this that our process in this is really an ultramarathon, the longest distance that you could go, because our goal really is to to keep on doing this for as long as we can.

Right, right.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

So I know I want to ask this question to everybody, but time is running out, so we have to go to the next segment. But before we go, give a special mention to all the pianists and piano teachers and students tuning in today who might not be familiar with your organization. So just the last, like, a quick promo that you can do.

Yeah, come visit us at aseatatthepiano.com, um, or visit us on social media. There's a lot to explore, and I can promise you that you will find something that interests you.

Thank you. So all of us can go to aseed@thepianopodwithyukimi.com, right?

Yes. And you get there ASAP.

Okay. Yeah. You get there ASAP. Yes. That was perfect. Great. This has been such a fun, inspiring conversation, everyone. Annie, Evan, Brendan, Susan, thank you so much for being here. But before I let you go, we have one more thing to do. So it's called The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with rapid-fire questions. And this is the part of the show where I get to ask fun questions to every one of you. And here's a little twist. As silly as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who Truly you are. So ready or not, question number 1: What is your comfort food, Annie?

Tacos.

Evan?

Pho.

Okay, Brendan?

Uh, chips. That's probably bad.

Okay, Susan?

Ice cream.

Yes. How do you like your coffee, Evan?

A little bit of soy.

Brendan?

A lot and black.

Susan?

Black, sometimes with milk.

Annie?

Black and bold.

Okay, wow. All right, cats or dogs? Brendan?

Dogs.

We have a dog.

Okay, okay. Annie?

Dog.

Dog.

All right, we're all dog people here. Great. Now, uh, summer or winter? Susan?

Winter.

Annie?

Oh, definitely summer.

Evan?

Winter.

Brendan?

Uh, winter in Nashville, but summer where it's somewhere not as hot.

Yes, amen. All right, now what is your word or words to live by? Annie?

Curiosity.

Evan?

Pick your battles.

Brendan?

Um, I guess be willing and flexible.

Right. And Susan?

Be nice.

Okay, now name one unknown composer whom you discovered through your work at ASAP and admire. So one unknown composer. Start with Evan.

Oh, I can't remember their name. I just like found their YouTube the other day.

Okay, I'll get back to you. So Brendan. Yeah.

I would hate to call her unknown because I think she's actually really well known except to me, but Sarah Kirkland Snyder is somebody that I found and love her music.

Okay, Susan?

Vyacheslav Kapralova.

Okay.

Oswald Russell. He's a Jamaican composer.

Oh wow, I need to check him out. See, I'm really learning.

Evan?

I can't remember. I'll say, um, Shimonoska.

Okay, great. Thank you. So name one piece in your current playlist, Brendan.

Um, uh, Snarky Puppy's newest album, uh, Entreact, I think it's called.

Okay, Susan?

Florence Price Concerto.

Wonderful. Annie?

Um, Hozier's new album, Eat Your Young.

Okay, great. Evan?

Uh, Mahalia's new album, IRL.

Great. So now last question, fill in the blank. Music is blank. Susan?

Powerful.

Annie?

Music is empowering.

Amen. Evan?

Profound.

Indeed. Brendan?

Music is necessary.

Ah, so good. Ding ding, you're done. So you all passed. Congratulations.

Yes.

All right, so this concludes this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Annie and Evan, Brendan, and Susan for joining. And the baby, I didn't want to ask the name because sometimes, you know, you want to hide, you want to be anonymous with the little ones, but thank you. Yes, thank you, little girl, little baby, for joining. So, um, sharing your stories and insights and expertise. You can learn more about A Seat at the Piano through their website at aseatatthepiano.com and also through Instagram and Facebook. Thank you to my wonderful audience and fans for tuning in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review it on whatever podcasting platform you use. Remember to hit the thumbs up button and subscribe to my YouTube channel, and then also follow The Piano Pod social media to get the latest Piano News via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. Bye everyone, and thank you so much everyone. Annie, Evan, Brendan, Susan, thank you.

Ryan Seacrest here. Every great barbecue has one secret ingredient: patience. You do a little, then you wait a little. And while your dinner does its thing, you got a few minutes to yourself, right? Well, kick back with a little Chumba Casino. A flip and a spin, who knows, maybe even a login bonus. It is is the perfect recipe. Chumba Casino, always good to have you back. Chumba! No purchase necessary. BGW Group. Void where prohibited by law. 21+.

Sponsored by Chumba Casino.

You're listening to a podcast right now. Driving, working out, walking the dog. If you're into podcasts, chances are you have something to say too. With RSS.com, starting your own podcast is free and easy. Upload an episode and we distribute it to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and more. Track your listeners, see where they're from, and start earning from ads just like this. If you've been thinking about starting a podcast, this is your sign. Start your new podcast for free today at RSS.com.