Part 2 of Season 4 Episode 1: Dr. Michael Kaykov, Concert Pianist/Recording Artist/Educator

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So tell me your love for Franz Liszt and Scriabin?

Well, you know, Franz Liszt is really my favorite. Scriabin contributed a lot towards the development of harmony, and he really came on a really unique— he came up with a really unique harmonic system. That being said, if I had to pick one, I would pick Franz Liszt. It really goes without saying, just the sheer amount of works that you can explore and the amount of different styles that all of those compositions encompass. You can also look at his transcriptions. I mean, Liszt transcribed stuff from Bach preludes and fugues for organ to completely free fantasies on Bach works to things that are like multi-stylistic, like this Handel transcription, things based on popular tunes, like a ridiculous amount of variety, really experimental works. So with Franz Liszt, you're just never going to run out of repertoire ideas. I mean, Leslie Howard recorded the complete Liszt, and that's what, 110, 115 CDs, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not gonna— it's safe to say you're never gonna run out of material.

Absolutely.

Unless you're Superman.

Hello, piano enthusiasts! You're tuned in to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. We're diving into Part 2 of our Season 4 opener, featuring the incredibly talented Dr. Michael Kaikoff. If you missed our intriguing chat in Part 1, where we delved into the mysteries of Scriabin's synesthesia and the life of an independent artist post-prestigious training, make sure to catch up on your go-to podcast platform. A warm welcome to all our new listeners. This podcast is your all-access pass to the captivating world of piano. In each episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, I interview a guest speaker who has been breaking exciting new ground in the industry. Please rate the show and review it on your favorite podcasting platform because every rating and review will help people find my show. So, my friends, Here is part 2 of The Piano Pod Season 4, Episode 1 with Dr. Michael Kaikoff. Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. So how about Scrapping? I know you recorded at Shoes. Before?

Yes, I've done the— I've done the 65, 65 number 3. I did the 6th Sonata. I did— I did— I worked on the complete Opus 8. Scrabin is on my radar. I will definitely release a Scrabin album at some point. What grabs me the most in Scrabin's output is the late period compositions, the late period stuff after Opus 61. Absolutely. There's no question about it. I would say it would be enough to say that all of them are worth learning. Every single opus from '61 up until '74, his last composition for piano, worth learning.

In your opinion, what makes them special and worth learning?

They're special because he came up on a harmonic system which is still based on acoustic principles. And if you look at the development, he actually didn't throw away the previous relationship, like the acoustic relationships. He's very aware of how the overtone series works, which— how the sounds are actually formed based on the overtone series. It doesn't go against that. And even though you have things like the Sixth Sonata, which I recorded, probably his most dissonant composition, it's still— every single chord can be explained. And just the meticulousness of the writing, and the way the material develops is extremely traditional. Very true. My teacher Jerome Lowenthal said that Scraban's late music is as clear as a Mozart sonata. It's like even more clear in terms of composition than Mozart, and he's right. There's like nothing in there that's out of place. The level of, level of craftsmanship. Yes, of course, when you hear it, it sounds chaotic, but yeah, yeah, it's true.

Yes. You are a dedicated music educator, piano teacher, and you teach online mainly, and we can talk about the convenience of it and everything. Yes. But tell me what's like to teach at the Harlem School of the Arts.

Well, at the Harlem School of the Arts, I currently have one student who has been with me for many, many years. She started with me when she was 3 years old.

Oh my goodness.

It was really kind of probably for a lot of people, they would say it's too early, but we kind of stuck with it and we really worked, really worked hard with her. And my sort of end goal would be to have her audition for a couple of maybe college prep programs and things like that. I have a couple of private students that auditioned for different kind of pre-college programs. And I have one person that's currently— who got into the Manhattan School of Music pre-college. It's very nice to also prepare for really high-stakes professional goals. But a lot of people also want to take this as a fun class, or not necessarily to have some kind of end result, like an exam, in mind. So it's a spectrum. I have some people online that are preparing for the RCM, or the ABRSM also very valuable. I like that there's a standardized repertoire list and it kind of makes my life a little bit easier because as you know, selecting repertoire is actually really important. Of course, how to pick pieces that showcase what you can already do and how you can grow. So that's that. Everyone sort of comes to me with a different goal in mind. I also teach a lot of adult adult beginners, people that used to play piano as a kid and are coming back to it again. So it's a, it's a whole spectrum. I've seen everything.

Great. And then, so you only have one student at, you know, Harlem School currently, right? Right. Then most of the students are through online.

Yes.

Wonderful. Now let's talk about online learning. So e-learning has become such a big thing, obviously, after 2020, because that was the only way for many of us to be connected with each other, but also only a way of learning as well. So tell me your thoughts on that. Pre-COVID, it was a huge, like, uh, resistance that I felt from among fellow educators and among students as well. But I was actually giving an online lesson even before COVID I had one or two students who lived in Upper West Side, and I couldn't go to their home, So the only way was through actually FaceTime before Zoom, because I did not know the existence of Zoom before COVID honestly. So tell me your thoughts on online lessons, e-learning.

Online lessons and their success a lot of the time is dependent on the, the weakest link, the internet connection on both sides and the kind of basic equipment people are willing to kind of invest in. Either some kind of keyboard with preferably 88 keys or an acoustic instrument. So occasionally I make people go and purchase a microphone, like a standalone thing that's going to kind of circumvent the Zoom compression. Something like this. Yes. If people can't afford it, I can take a financial hit on the first lesson and just buy this thing for them just to ensure that the lessons aren't a waste of money and I can hear them. And they can hear me. Seems like a really basic thing, but it really isn't because it does take a little bit of special equipment to make it feasible. Otherwise, they cannot really— if there's too much of a lag in the internet connection, it's also not a good value. You can't really teach.

Absolutely.

Yes. Now, online isn't ideal for complete beginners as well. I have those, but it's less than ideal. And I think people that go into it, they know it might not be not be, you know, the best thing, but it can work with enough dedication. It can, it can work. But the best results online that I found were people that already had some lessons prior, and they kind of, they already have like very clear, very clear goals.

Yeah. And then how do you like teaching online?

I love the convenience of it. I love working with people who are already come to me with a kind of a motivation, because if you're, you're seeking these lessons out online, it's pretty clear that you're kind of interested. You're not passively signed up for some kind of program. You're just going through the motions. So it's very, very, very nice. I've had people reach out because they're— they do have an in-person teacher, but they want a second opinion as they prepare for an exam. I've had college students reach out to me also that are enrolled in some program, but they want like an extra, extra lesson or also like a second opinion, or just even to play through some pieces and see what I— what I say about it. So it's pretty cool.

Yeah, that's a great way to do that, uh, using online. Makes sense. Yes, yes, definitely. Yeah. So as an educator, what do you see in these students, especially the students in, I guess, in of Gen Z? I wouldn't say Gen Alpha because I don't think you're teaching really young students, young, young students, but you know, Gen Z, uh, I'm sure you have students in that. Or maybe you are too. You are Gen Z, maybe. I don't know.

Well, born 1990, what does that make me?

Uh, the millennial. Yes, you're still—

still—

well, pre-millennial.

Yeah, but the, the era is called millennial generation.

Okay. Yes, I'm a millennial. Oh my God. Yeah, I'm having an existential crisis right now.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's, it's, it's called Gen Y. You're, you're in Gen Y. So Gen Z is like— yeah, Gen Z is the, you know, I think the age 23 or something.

Okay.

Yeah. So anyway, what do you see in students of that generation?

It varies. Well, people are much better suited to using technology. They're quite fast with it. A lot of people already had to go through a lot of the schooling online just because of the COVID thing. I mean, they had to attend regular school online. A lot of university students had to have online college lessons even for their major. We're talking about like the, all the big schools, even Juilliard, even people like in the dance program there, they have like online dance classes just through Zoom. So I feel like those students are already kind of well adapted to this. It's definitely, it definitely needs like, you need a certain level of tech savviness, and working online requires greater concentration on the part of a student because you can't, you can only communicate these ideas, you can't like directly show it at the keyboard, you know, it's more advanced. It's difficult. It's more difficult. Of course, you're not going to argue otherwise, but it allows for consistency of lessons. It allows for flexibility in scheduling, and it can give you a decent result.

What kind of skills are required or demanded as musicians of young generation? You're young as well, so, you know, that skills that you you didn't necessarily learn from all the schooling you went through, you know what I mean?

Yes, I, I wouldn't say it's a skill. I think it's a mindset. I think it's a mindset. At some point you have to really think, how do I want to play this composition? Or, you know, what do I want to play and why am I picking it? And, you know, you know something, even as I am playing this, this repertoire, there's spots in the 19th Hungarian Rhapsody where I've always felt strongly when I listen to recordings of it that it might need like a cadenza, or it might need like an embellishment on the repeat. And I went ahead and I composed a couple of inserts very carefully so they don't sound intrusive, but I make tiny changes in the score. These are things that are really not encouraged, not encouraged in school. We're so glued to the score. I mean, it's— I know some people would be horrified listening to a Liszt Rhapsody and then looking at the repeat passage and seeing that I added some things in there. But ideally, ideally, it has to be done very sparingly, very sparingly. It has to sound organic. It's a matter of taste. But at least I think when you get to the point where you can play what you want and, how you want, I think that's already a win. That's a win. Think about it for a minute. Early training is based on restriction, what not to do. And you also learn by imitation. That's a very good thing up to a certain point. When you're finally given a completely free pass to do whatever you want, what are you going to do? Yeah, that's an interesting— when you get to that point, pretty interesting. What are you going to pick? How are you going to play it? And why?

That's a very different perspective, right? From—

Yes. And I've only been thinking about it recently.

Yeah. That's a very important question to ask.

It is. And you have to come to this. I, for a certain period of time, I was collecting old recordings and listening to all the recorded output of like Rahma in the— Friedman, Gadovsky, Horowitz, like everybody. I have all the collections in my hard drive. I hardly listen to the stuff anymore, but I'm kind of aware of what the pianists of the past sounded like. And it was just an era of extreme freedom, really strong individuality. I mean, look at Alfred Cortot. Everyone, all different, all so different.

And yeah, that is, uh, something that You should.

Absolutely, absolutely. You should cultivate. Okay, cultivate. It goes without saying. Otherwise, why are you recording it if you can't bring something new to it? And I don't mean something new in a completely tacky, contrived way.

Yeah, yeah.

But if you're not gonna present something new or have your own ideas about it, why not just put a recording of Rachmaninoff on? Even something like the Rachmaninoff Third Concerto, which I haven't done I have a wonderful recording of Rachmaninoff himself playing it in 1939. It gives me a good reason to play that concerto again. You know, that's what you have to think about when you learn a composition. It may sound arrogant, but I'm not saying it's a competition between you and Rachmaninoff. No. It's like, what's there? What do you have extra to say? And why are you picking it? And do you think that you can present something that's like unique enough? When you select something.

Hey there, TPP family! The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song is now into our fourth season, and it's all thanks to you. Since 2020, you've been with my journey with the TPP, exploring this burning question: how do we make classical music resonate with today's audience in fresh and captivating ways? Four years in, and the journey has been nothing short of magical. The Piano Pod isn't just a podcast; It's a movement, a space where pianists, composers, and educators brainstorm, debate, and reimagine classical music's place in our fast-paced world. We're together on a mission to ensure classical music doesn't just survive but thrives in our modern age. But here's the thing: to keep bringing you these insightful biweekly episodes, I need your help. Every bit of support goes into the podcast's essentials, from hosting to high-quality recording tech and the countless hours behind the scenes. So do you want to be part of this journey? Click the PayPal link in the show notes or head to thepianopod.com to donate. And as a token of appreciation, I will personally mail you The Piano Pod's snazzy logo sticker. So hit the subscribe button, spread the word, and let's continue our mission and journey as classical musicians. Now let's continue with the show.

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Because you are not only a concert pianist and recording artist, but also you're an educator. So let's talk about the vision of the classical music industry. So I wanna— I'm curious to know your thoughts on how we can keep this classical music tradition, or even like classical music itself, relevant and then thriving in this fast-paced society.

It's still relevant. The markets of it have changed, but it's as relevant as it always has been. There's massive audiences online. You have to just find a niche. You have to find something that's unique to you. And I think there will be an audience for that. I saw a posting recently and it was an artist and he said that he basically doesn't want to continue posting his stuff on YouTube because he feels it's unappreciated and he just wants to take down the whole channel. And I feel, what are you doing this for? Are you, are you setting out to build up, you know, 400,000 subscribers, or are you getting your work out there? Because it's two very different, two very different goals. So I would say you, you have to be patient. You have to find the audience that's right for you. That love specifically what you do and what you select. And it's a matter of just staying patient and creating more so-called content, but like on your own terms. If you go into this with this specific mindset of growth, you might have to go and study marketing first or look at something else because it's, this, it may not be immediately sort of comparable. Also, one, one pretty interesting thing. All the major streaming platforms, they've peaked, haven't they? They've peaked. The time to be on YouTube was right before YouTube was, uh, was purchased by Google, right? The time for that was like 15, 20 years ago, however long ago that was. You know, right now it's—

you—

the market is so oversaturated that you really have to be on the lookout for the next kind of big platform. I know, for example, when you post an Instagram reel, it gets more organic views than stuff on YouTube or Facebook because Instagram is actively interested in promoting their kind of new sort of newer platform with longer video. So when the next sort of big thing comes out, you have to be ready for that. For example, I worked a little bit with with this, uh, company Muse Live, which I think they're gonna go— Dr. Lisa Yui, by the way, also played a couple of recitals for them from Muse Live. Yes, I think it's gonna— it's— they have an app and it's gonna go— it's gonna go live somewhere around this year or maybe next year. We'll see. It's a slight delay to it, but that's just a streaming platform where it's audio only but it's uncompressed audio, so you can stream potentially in high quality.

Oh, wonderful. Then what is your thought on our responsibility or duty, or you may say gift, as classical musicians to society at large?

That's a very good question. You know, I would say, our duty in classical music isn't to cheapen the content so that it's available, readily available for mass consumption. I think that's an error. If you think that you can get more views by doing a certain thing that your heart isn't really in it, and it's all just like marketing, and you— I think you know what I mean, when you kind of keep posting certain things that are there just for the views. I think people have to sort of reconsider really what is classical music. It's really come to the point where you might not want progress. You just want to do it. Let's do it well again. Let's do it well again. I mean, if you look at the past, look at the past 100 years, look at the past 100 years of the recording industry and of, you know, all the great artists, over the past. I don't mean that to discourage people, just on the contrary, but a lot of this has already been done. Let's keep the level where it is. Let's kind of match the level. Let's not, let's not degrade it. Let's not cheapen the art for mass conception. What I mean by that, even like, um, platform limits. I know for, for certain Instagram clips, and I've been guilty of that myself, but you can only post a tiny sound bite that is 30 seconds long. I don't know if that's the best sort of— I don't know if that's the same— the best medium for the art. Is a Chopin scherzo all about the coda, the last 30 seconds? I don't know. Is the Liszt Sonata, you're just going to post the octaves, just the octaves, all the climax section, that's all the people are going to hear? I'm not so sure. So it's just, it's a question of media. Also, what mindset are you— when you're on social media and looking for so-called content to watch, kind of scrolling by. Are you going to listen to a late Liszt masterwork when you can't completely focus on it, or it's like background music? I don't think so. So it's a question of kind of redefining what these platforms are for. I don't mean that in a pessimistic way.

Right, right, right, right.

Yeah, totally.

I understand that. Why do you think it matters to each one of us at one point to explore and examine our sense of purpose or mission as performing artists and music educators?

Well, I think we have to think about that anytime. I think just with rigorous schooling, with staying in a more kind of confined thing where you have a thousand things going on, your number one concern is when I graduate, am I going to find it? 'find a job.' Am I wrong? Is that's really— that kind of weighs you down, and it completely— it may crush some of your creative instincts, right? Let's, let's say you wanna— let's say your main goal from recording is to make a profit. It's not going to happen. If you look at streaming, what streaming pays, and if you look at like the various platforms, I mean, you're— it's not even close to— not even close to minimum wage. Of course, there's things like Bandcamp where you can sell like a physical product or people can donate, and these things are actually changing already. But in the case of the most popular one, like Apple Music and Spotify, it's safe to say that the streaming income that you make from that will not cover your production costs. It's— these things have changed. They've changed very rapidly. You went from CDs, physical CDs, being relatively profitable in the '90s when record labels were actively looking to duplicate the catalogs previously available in LP, right? There was a mad rush to get the stuff documented. That's when companies like Philips, Sony, and others would actually pay a very decent amount of money and royalties for that. Right now, I don't know. Right now, I think the, for the recording, it's more, it's going to go in a library somewhere. It's going to go in one of those students, I'm sure know this, with the Noxos sound library where you can access pretty much anything on demand for streaming. So the purpose kind of changed, but I think it's still worthwhile. You think?

Yes. Life is hard. Yeah.

Look, if you're number one, because I'm only saying this because people have asked me this, they're saying, well, What, you're telling me there's never going to be any profits in this? Or absolutely, there may never be any profit. And the best that you can hope for, for some of this, is you— if you're a freelancer and you produce a project like that, is a nice tax write-off. Get a good accountant, get a good accountant, write off those thousands that you invest in your career. It might be worth it. And then something eventually will click in place because you're spending basically on It's an advertisement, isn't it?

Mm-hmm.

You're also taking a so-called loss just to— artistry can't exist in a vacuum. You need an audience. You need a specific goal. It's not like a treadmill where, oh, I'm just gonna do this to get better, just to— for self-betterment. It's— no, it's— that's not it entirely. You need an audience. You need at least one person out there that you're gonna communicate with as you play. And it may reach somebody. Just what takes one person.

Yes.

Right.

So yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When you make a recording, you're playing for the sound engineer in the booth. Yes.

Well, thank you, Michael. It's been a really great conversation. I am really enjoying this. Now, time is running up and we're toward the end of our wonderful conversation here, but I just want to know a few more things. So one is, what is your next step or next phase in your career? What's your next goal? Not that it doesn't have to be the specific— we know the specifics, like that your recording is coming up, your concert is coming up in September.

But no, it's— you, it's— you asked a very good question. The— I want to play more live, and I want to start booking more venues and playing, because recording can only take you so far. I want to just go live. I want to do more more streaming, more streaming, and more streaming.

Okay.

And more live, more live concerts.

Yeah, yeah. And it will happen, and I'm— I can't wait for really the concert, you know, to attend in September and more, you know. So yeah, that would be great. Wonderful.

It's enjoyable, you know. Look, you, you cannot set concrete career goals because you never know how the industry is going to change and what's going to click into place. All you can do is be very alert and look at a variety of different options and see what clicks into place. Otherwise, you're going to be deeply unhappy, deeply unhappy. If your number one goal here is to secure a traditional management by a certain number of years, I don't know if that may ever happen. I'm fine with that never happening for me. I came to terms with that. But in music school, everybody is sort of grinding the same thing. They're either doing, you know, competition after competition hoping to secure a traditional management, which is, which is going to last only a couple of years anyway, with in most cases 3 or 4 years if you win something. And then they, they kind of grind these degrees, and then you hope to secure like a college position by a certain amount of time, after which people have told me, you know, if you don't secure a college professorship like an X number of years after graduation you may not be hireable. I'm fine with that.

Yeah, but you know, honestly, I'm completely fine with that. It's not true though. It's not true though.

And, and it's, and it's not, it's not entirely true, but you can't set like artificial deadlines for yourself like that. And you can't, you can't just start doing the same thing, you know, getting into a mode where you're doing the same thing over and over and hoping something's gonna finally click into place. That's a definition of insanity.

Yeah, but you know what? Unknown makes us thrive. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's hard, but the, the unknown makes us who we are as artists. That's why our industry, this performing arts industry, is so interesting. And you can really push so hard, so far, right? Because of the unknown that you're pursuing, right?

Yes. So yeah, your only enemy is what's, what's like inside your mind, like the limitations that you create for yourself. You I think it can be done. Actually, it probably can. Just do it. Just do it. Just go for it right now. Yeah.

Before we go, I want to promote— so I know the concert is coming up on September 2nd, but this show comes up on the 5th, so unfortunately it won't be much of a promotion. But for listeners, if you're listening and who are interested in learning more about Michael, please go to michaelkaykoffpiano.com. And also, he will have the next All List album coming out sometime next year, early next year, 2024. So please on the lookout for his recording on any music streaming services, I guess, right?

Yes, yes, and Bandcamp and others. Yes.

Okay, great, fantastic. So Michael, again, this has been a great, fun, inspirational conversation, but before I let you go, we have one more thing to do. It's called The Piano Pod rapid-fire questions, and this is the part of the show where I get to ask fun questions to each guest. Now here's a little twist: as silly as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who you truly are. Oh, and then, uh, so, uh, I want you to answer each question with the shortest response— as responses as possible. So, and then you don't have to explain anything, just, just do it. All right, are you ready?

Yes.

All righty, number 1: What is your comfort food?

Pasta.

Yay. How do you like your coffee?

Espresso, double shot with a little bit of steamed milk.

Cats or dogs?

Dogs, preferably basset hounds.

Sunrise or sunset?

Sunset.

Summer or winter?

Winter.

Good old paper book or ebook?

Ebook.

Okay. What is your word or words to live by?

I don't think I have any. I don't think I have any. It might be an obscene word, might be something obscene when you're in a frustration, you say something like that. But I'm a product of the 21st century, unfortunately.

That's okay. So what is the most quality you look for in other people?

An openness and good intentions. Just open to new things and not looking to beat anybody down, because there's really kind of two types of people.

I want you to name three people who inspire you, living or dead.

My mother, I would say also Franz Liszt, and maybe for, for pianists, for for pianists of the past, it's really, really hard to say, really hard to say. Maybe somebody like Ignaz Friedman.

Oh, yes. I love his interpretation of Chopin Nocturne.

Oh, that's a great one. That's a great one.

B major especially.

Oh, so good. The E-flat, the E-flat, E-flat major. There's a B major piano roll that you're referring to, but there's also the acoustic recording of the, of the E-flat, the late one. Yes, yes.

Wow, wow.

Yes, yeah, great.

Now name one piece in your current playlist.

Uh, probably a bunch of Art Tatum stuff, something like Art Tatum Night and Day. Oh, 1946.

I love that pianist, jazz pianist, so much. Oh yeah, he's incredible. All right, so last but least, fill in the blank: music is blank.

Life. Music is life.

Wonderful. Yay, ding ding, you won. So this concludes this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Dr. Michael Kekov. Thank you, Michael, for joining.

Thank you.

No, thank you.

It was great to be here.

Oh, wonderful. And then thank you for sharing your stories and insights and expertise. You can learn more about Dr. Michael Kekov and his amazing work through his website at michaelkekov.com. Piano.com, and you can listen to his recordings on all major music streaming services. All the links are listed in the show notes. Thank you to my wonderful audience and fans for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review it on wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to hit the thumbs up button and subscribe to my YouTube channel if you are watching this, this episode on YouTube. Follow The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song on social media to get latest piano news via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Michael Bock. Bye everyone, and bye Michael. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

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