Season 3 Episode 15, Part 1: Dr. Alan Moverman -- Piano Soloist at New York City Ballet

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Welcome back to another episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. So today, for my audience exclusively, I'm going to take you on a quick trip to New York City's famous Lincoln Center, and more specifically, the backstage of the David H. Koch Theater, home to one of the most renowned ballet companies in the world.

So for this episode, I got to interview Dr.

Alan Moverman, piano soloist at New York City Ballet. For his 20-year career at the company, he has performed concerti and solo repertoire in prominent concert venues worldwide and worked closely with the most celebrated choreographers such as Alexei Ratmansky, Jerome Robbins, who was actually the choreographer of the original West Side Story, and Justin Peck. And more. Before getting started, I want to welcome everyone listening or watching The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song for the first time. I'm a classical pianist and educator from New York City, passionate about creating a thriving and meaningful community of the classical music industry through this podcast. Please visit yukimisongstudio.com to find out more about my work. In each episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, I interview a guest speaker who has been breaking exciting new ground in the industry. Before getting started, I want to thank everyone for tuning in today. Please rate the show and review it on your favorite podcasting platform because every rating review will help people find my show.

So here we go.

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You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song.

You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.

I am honored to welcome Dr. Alan Moverman, a piano soloist at New York City Ballet. So, Alan, welcome to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. And thanks for being here today.

I appreciate the opportunity. That's great.

I'm so excited to get to know the world of ballet today by talking to you, as I'm not familiar with what really goes into the production of ballet programs. And I enjoy listening to ballet music and attending shows. And to be honest, I did a few years of ballet lessons as a kid, for 5 years or so, and my experience and knowledge of what it takes to put together ballet program stops right there. So I can't wait for you to take us to the backstage of David H. Koch Theater, which is home to New York City Ballet, and to be exposed to the ballet world and hear what it's like to work with the most celebrated dancers and choreographers and what it takes to be a solo pianist at one of the most celebrated ballet companies in the world. So, Alan, I want to start with this question. Oh, by the way, where are you tuning in from today?

Oh, this, this is the, uh, the Koch Theater at Lincoln Center. You can see there's a ballet bar behind me.

I know.

And then there's a, uh, piano next to me.

Oh, wonderful.

This is a very small rehearsal room. Uh, the ballet company is really lucky because we have rehearsal rooms in the Rose Building, which is where Juilliard is. Also huge, huge rehearsal rooms. When I do gigs with some modern companies on occasion, they'll come into the studios and they'll just be like, I can't believe this.

Oh, wow.

You know, it's like the most beautiful studios with also gorgeous light and, you know, huge 15-foot windows throughout. You know, it's really gorgeous. And but the dancers really deserve it because It's, as you know, it's an incredibly difficult career for them. And, you know, they've made it a long way to be here. You know, we want them to have the best possible conditions to work in.

Well, thank you for showing me the room. It's gorgeous. I mean, it's such an exciting— excitement happens in that room. So that's incredible. What is the job description of ballet pianist of this major ballet company? What are the responsibilities?

Well, we have a really large repertoire here, and a lot of it is quite complex. We have 30 active Stravinsky ballets in the repertoire.

Oh my goodness.

So obviously Stravinsky can be complicated, and we play them all, or virtually all of them, in rehearsals for the dancers on the piano. So I would say one of the primary job descriptions is to be able to realize piano reductions and hopefully imitate the orchestra sound. Also, you need to have or develop kind of sophisticated sense of rhythm because the dancers are very sensitive to the speed of music. And there are other parameters in music also. Well, just talking about the rhythmic parameter, they need a lot of steadiness, a kind of steadiness that is a kind of default position. And as we all know, as pianists, rhythm is one of the things we study. Rhythm is a living thing. It's, it's flexible. It's rooted in dance and it's rooted in our bodies. And it's something we always need to work on. But it's something Dancers need a sense of predictability in the rhythm.

How are you going to be able to match the orchestra? Because, you know, after the rehearsal with pianists like yourself, then they're moving into orchestra. So what's the transition like?

That's one of the pedagogical problems with rehearsal with piano versus orchestra. And I think it's important for people who do this job to constantly listen as much as possible to the orchestra version of the piece they're playing, because in specific ways, like what instrument is prominent, but also in subtle ways, like the type of rhythm an orchestra plays. Like, I can give you a good example. It might be fun to, play a little bit. So this is from one of Tchaikovsky's well-known pieces. It's called, uh, Serenade for Strings. So that piece I was practicing the other day, and I realized that, you know, the way I play it, it sounds nice. It's like a Chopin nocturne almost. But, you know, orchestras have a broader kind of sound. So then I think a little more careful, not really careful, but play on the more subdivided way, like orchestras, you know, have to line up vertically. So you can't do like as much. They would do, you know, this kind of thing.

So instead of playing with fluidity, you want to be more metronomical. I don't want to say that term.

Not musical, but, but, but a kind of a more— you could— it's kind of more classical rhythm in a way. And also, you know, orchestras, orchestra music is by definition has a public sound. So when you're dealing with a public sound, you're going to be dealing with things that are easier to understand, that everyone can understand in a nice way. So if you play this— it's very beautiful, but it's intimate. The public might want— You hear the difference?

Mm-hmm.

You know, it's very hard when you play ballet piano not to get caught up in, like they say, if I played it the first way, they might say, "Oh, that's beautiful, that's great." Or they might say, "You know, it feels a little too fast." So it's important not to get caught up in the fact that I did something wrong. I just, I just didn't do it in the best possible way for them at the moment, because once you get into it, it's very easy to get into self-criticism of your rhythm in ballet. So it's better to, to forthrightly play what you feel and then adjust than to always be like, what do they need? What do they need? What do they need? Another thing I was practicing, there's a beautiful And the other morning I was listening to the orchestra version. I was like saying, well, maybe better. It's different.

So speaking of that, how about playing like, you know, that those are orchestra reductions. So during rehearsals you're playing orchestra reductions most of the time, such as, you know, rehearsals.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that must be really challenging. I've done, you know, accompanying for, you know, violin concerto and everything and playing the entire score.

Well, not, I mean, not, I left out a lot of notes. But it is a little different than playing accompanying a violinist or a singer because you tend to pick and you've got the melody is generally being carried by another instrument. You have to play the melody and you have to indicate as much of the sense of the orchestration as possible.

Wow.

Which is wonderful if you accompany people too, but doesn't always happen and isn't even always desirable, partly because it almost requires you to play the piece as if you're a soloist.

Wow, you're right. And but what's the secret to playing them well?

There are a lot of different ones, different elements. Listen a lot to orchestras. Try to think about what orchestras, what the emotional effect is of hearing an orchestra, which is very different than hearing a solo pianist, although there's a lot of overlap, of course. Also, I learned there are very few books on the subject, but there's a very good book on accompanying by Martin Katz, who was a famous, famous vocal accompanist for Fredericke von Städt and lots of Marilyn Horne. I mean, he was a great, great— and I studied with him a little bit and And he wrote a book about accompaniment. I can't quite remember the name of the book, but he did have a chapter on playing orchestra reductions. I've never seen any other book. I think there's a Robert Spillman book also that has a chapter on playing orchestra reductions. He was a— he taught at Eastman for many, many years and was also a spectacular spectacular vocal accompanist, and I actually studied with him as well, but they both wrote good books. Probably Bob Spillman's book is out of print, unfortunately, and it was an amazing book. I wish I— I'll have to look on one of the websites and pay $300 to buy the out-of-print book, which, to be honest with you, I almost would because that's how good it was.

Do you come up with your own piano transcriptions as well?

Well, I mean, I can show you what I was just playing off. You know, most— for most of music history, there weren't recordings. So almost everything written up to about 1950 has a piano version, which is kind of fun to know if you like piano music, if you like orchestra music and you're a pianist. You can really find on, you know, online or IMSLIP, you can find almost any of your favorite Beethoven symphonies or Brahms symphonies in piano arrangements or at least in four-hand arrangements. So that's where we get our reductions for the most part. If it's a contemporary piece, someone has to make one. And it could be another pianist. Or we could hire it out to someone who does that thing. I've done some myself. I probably have played close to 100 ballets here. Most of them are about between 35 and 60 pages long. And, you know, I could probably get through pretty well 50 ballets, just sit at the piano and play.

Oh my goodness. So what does your day as a solo pianist for a major ballet company look like? How, how does your day start? Like, are you with dancers at the piano all day long?

I rehearse between, generally between 3 hours and 5 hours a day. Usually it comes in about 4. I start usually at 11:30 or 12, and there's a schedule that comes out 2 days in advance. It says who is rehearsing what, who the pianist is, who the rehearsal director is, and, and also all the dancers that have to be in the rehearsal. The schedule, and it shows one of 6 or 7 studios, or not, that's, I think, 5 or 6 studios that we can rehearse in. So 2 different pieces. Today I have to rehearse a piece called "Camera Music" by Hindemith, which is a piano concerto, and it's from 12 to 12:30. Then I have to rehearse this piece, which is "Serenade," the piece I was just playing, "Serenade for Strings," from 1 to 2:30. And that rehearsal is actually with the corps, because in ballet we have different categories of Dancers, as you see on stage, there's a soloist, principal dancer often. So you've got the corps generally is more of the background, for want of a better word. And then you've got the people that are kind of leading the troupe. Those are more principals. So they don't always rehearse together. At 1 o'clock for Sérénade, it will be a corps rehearsal. So even though it has principal dancers in it, I'll just be rehearsing with the corps for an hour and a half, and they'll be going through it. It's a lot of responsibility because we're going to Madrid next week, and this piece hasn't been touched by anyone for, I don't know, 4 months. And so there's going to be 2 of these rehearsals, and then tomorrow I'm playing what we call a complete, where the entire company will be there, the conductor will be there, you know, the directors Wendy Whelan and Jonathan Stafford will be there, and all the dancers in the ballet, and we'll play the ballet from beginning to end, which is the hardest thing we do.

Wow.

Playing with a conductor also is different than playing by yourself. That's kind of a bit of an art form unto itself.

What are the advantages, not to mention having a full-time paid job as a pianist, which is sort of rare, right? Because pianists don't usually, unless if you're teaching, you don't get to have that luxury. Now, what, what are the advantages of being part of this company? And maybe you have more performance opportunities.

Well, it is a reliable job at different kind of levels of the job. I mean, you know, just as with any part of the music business, there are different places you find yourself in. You can be a pianist who plays for ballet class around New York. There are probably 100 ballet classes every day in New York.

I've done that before. Yes.

They need pianists. Oh, so you, you know about that. I also play class. I know how to do that. Then you can play with the company. That's also— that's maybe you'll be paid more money and you'll have more regular work. And then you can play, you know, hopefully if you like doing that sort of thing, you can play with a major company and then, then you get a more full-time kind of job. A job that resembles a regular job, you know, with benefits and insurance. And, and, and, but yeah, sure.

But more, I understand that part of, you know, full-time job, but more to do with more than that. What are the opportunities as a pianist that comes with this?

I mean, we, because we have such a large repertoire and because the music we work with is so complicated, We can do any of the range of music at all. I mean, we have Prokofiev Fourth Concerto, Fifth Concerto. We do the two Shostakovich concertos, all three Tchaikovsky concertos, Beethoven First. We do Ligeti etudes. We do at least 3 hours of Chopin music that we perform on stage. We do the Ravel Sonatine. We do Miroir. We do—

So you get to to really perform, perform, not just the rehearsal, then?

No, no, we, we play plenty of, uh, plenty of stuff on stage with the dancers.

Wow.

And then dancers are being, of course, choreographed with that music. That is really fascinating. I never knew that part of your job description.

Yeah, we— it's, it's, it's the great part of— well, all these other parts also great parts.

Uh-huh.

But we do get opportunities to play big pieces that all pianists enjoy playing. And we play with a very fine orchestra and very fine conductors. That's— it's kind of an unbelievable privilege.

It is. That is fascinating. Yeah.

I played the last— The last really big piece I played was in the spring last year. I played a piece called Piano Pieces by Jerry Robbins, and it's a 40-minute piece of solo Tchaikovsky piano music ranging from children's pieces that are, you know, of course always a little more difficult than people think, to very hard virtuoso pieces that are recorded by, well, all— everything Everything's recorded now, but, but, you know, virtuoso piano pieces. And that was really great. And you generally, we play on the apron, they call it, which is on the side of the stage. The pianist comes out and takes a bow for the audience. That's how the piece always starts. And then, then the lights kind of go down and then they open the curtain and then you play. And that. This piece has, I think, 13 pieces in it. I try to make a little story. It helps me and it makes it more fun, you know, like every music piece.

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Piece or choreography piece, generally there's some sort of structure, some sort of subtext or story, and that helps you kind of organize all these pieces and, and have fun telling, telling the story that you, you think should be told with this music. And it also helps you get the tempos. That's really, really important. Important because, like I was saying about the serenade, you have to be able to get kind of specific, you know. You can't just go— you're not— it's not all about you. You're, you know, I mean, if you're, I don't know, Puccini, you can sit and you can play You know, you can play whatever you want, but maybe the choreographer, maybe the story of this dance is a little more neutral. Even though it's Chopin, you might play— You might play something a little more broad, so you can make a picture, so the listener can make a picture. Instead of being involved with your emotion, maybe you want the listener to be able to dream. So that's the kind of thing, but if you say, say it is a kind of intimate communication with the dancer. And so that changes the tempo. You might play— which is poco rubato. So, you know, poco rubato is something you can remember. Or you might do the broad moonlit thing that, you know, the picture, which you might write semplice. Those are different tempos. The intimate one is slower and more in eighths, and the, as I found in the second measure as I was thinking about it, the moonlit one is more in two. And has a slight larger rhythm that moves and every possible variation. And I mean, these are the things we think about. We're privileged as pianists to play complete pieces. We're the only musicians that, you know, play so many complete pieces. Violinists only play half the music, you know. And so we have to— we have to— we have a lot of fun, but we have a lot of responsibility to make decisions about characterization. And dance forces you to. It's not just anything you feel. You know, it is important to realize that all the things you feel have validity, but you have to eventually decide what is it? Is it agitated or is it defiant, you know, what is it? And, uh, it's fine if you're playing by yourself. It's not even fine really, because you really have to have this— I feel strongly you have to have this language of emotion in your mind.

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I had wonderful teachers. I had Richard Goode for many years, and also, uh, the son of Schnabel I studied with, uh, Karl Ulrich Schnabel. And he taught me, he said, to begin a piece, you should play it in many different characters, like, you know, every character you can think of. So you can get this language that connects the head and the heart or the body. And it's very useful in dance because then you can remember a tempo in more than just an abstract, you know, an intellectual way, although you do— dance pianists do get a good sense of metronomic exactness, like, you know, 63, 63 is different than 66. I don't want to test myself and embarrass myself. But, you know, one thing that helps sometimes is some pieces you just sort of know the tempo. And so, like, I know I could be wrong, but this this little Scott Joplin waltz. I believe it's 96. 1, 2, 3. Actually, I think that was too fast. So you remember that, so maybe I have to play some other piece that I decide is 96. You know, you remember a piece, you know the tempo of, oh, that was 72.

So yeah, develop this metronome in your body. I'm sure especially with, you know, playing with dancers forces you to be more aware of those things, right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's fun. You have to look at it as fun. One. If you look at it as terrible and, you know, how dare you play, you know, my, you know, sonata, you know, at 50 when I wrote 54. I mean, you're not gonna do too well. I mean, and, and, uh, and then I think it's interesting, um, the, the two, the two approaches to tempo in the studio. You can play the tempo that you think the orchestra orchestra will play all the time. That's one approach. That's a good approach for some people. Also, you can look at the dancer and the situation. Where are they in their preparation? Are they remembering the piece that they've played a long time ago? Are they amazing dancers and they— if you don't give them something to chew on, meaning a really healthy tempo, they're gonna fall asleep. They're gonna— they're gonna not— it's too uninteresting for them. You know, you have to get into the personalities.

Interesting.

Working with, like, uh, and that doesn't even just involve rhythm, it can involve sound also. You know, say I'm working with, uh, Tyler Peck, who's a complete virtuoso. She probably has the greatest ballet technique of our time, you know. So and she's played Don Serenade a million times, and say we're doing like a rehearsal right before, she's totally on it, she knows it. You know, if I play like— for her, which is Serenade for Strings, that's more of a tempo you would play when a dancer is trying to remember something. They're in the room and you don't want to impose too much. You want to remind them, remember this, you knew this last year. So they have space. So you know, you knew this last year, so just remember, you know, jog your memory a little bit. Then you might have a dancer who's very tall, so they need the characterization, but they also need maybe a slower tempo. That's a bigger body.

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And so all these things also, these are words like characterizations. Of a Beethoven sonata? Is it aggressive? Is it stately? Is it— what's the difference? I mean, there was a big long Schnabel article in the beginning of Opus 111. What's the difference between maestoso and larghetto? You know, there is a difference, you know, and it doesn't mean you're locked in, you know, to this terrible, odious pedanticism, but, you know, you want to project some specific— in order for an audience to read your music or for a dancer to read your tempo, it has to be specific.

Wow. Now, all these things are very fascinating, but what attracted you to start this career, and especially as a full-time soloist at a ballet company? Did you start as like an internship or apprentice?

Ship? No, not really. They kind of throw it all at you at once. It's sort of a little sink or swim. It's— they're kinder now. But when you come in, when I came in, I think I had to play Suite 3 by Tchaikovsky, which is a big orchestra piece, complete— what, on stage with the conductor, the entire company. And within a couple weeks, and then I played the second act of Midsummer Night's Dream, which is about 40 minutes long, on stage with the whole company. And that's the way it used to be. It used to be a really, really challenging, to say the least.

You went to Juilliard for master's, right? And then for doctorate, you went to Stony Brook, the great schools. Now, did they prepare you to be the ballet pianist?

No, not really. I mean, I, you know, like, I think that one of the main things that helps me is that I started as a jazz pianist.

Oh, really?

Yeah. And so, and I was, I was very good. I was, I was, I studied with very famous jazz teachers and I was New York State in high school. You know, first, you know, the— I don't know what they call it— All-State pianists, jazz pianists, 2 years in a row, New York State, which is a lot of jazz pianists are in New York. You know, my sense of music is very— in a sense, it's kind of conceptual. Like, the piano is just a part of what I do. You know, it's just the expression of what I do. But I just play music. And so, and when I see I see music, because I was a jazz pianist, I just see harmony. And I, you know, so when you're playing reductions, there's a kind of quick analysis of what's going on in the music. I mean, this is not only true of jazz pianists by any means, but it helped me, you know, to be less orthodox. Like, you know, I'm not like, what fingering am I, what finger am I going to put on the note? I'm like, okay, This is a serenade, so it's slow, it's 6/8, it's A minor, it's moving to the dominant, like these little, almost like cue cards, you know, what you know in the music. Now it's changing tempo, now this phrase is 8 measures, this phrase is 6 measures. Also, I studied composition with Howard Boatwright, who's who was a wonderful composer and a pupil of Hindemith. So I had really good composition training. And, you know, really, I mean, my musical life, I mean, the main thing I do is play the piano. But I mean, it's like all day. You know, it's listening, you know, thinking about structures, thinking about reading about music history.

And yeah, well, but that's very different from traditional way of learning piano because Because you have this background of jazz and also the training of composition, so you see music differently. So I think so, yeah. Then obviously playing for dancers also give you different perspectives about playing piano, right?

Yeah, right. And also, I'm— well, you mean playing itself, um, for example, you know, compared to—

I've done a ton of work collaboration with singers and instrumentalists. So as opposed to that, playing for dancers.

Right. Well, you have to give them the structure more because they're going to be dancing to people. Actually, for one thing, they're going to be dancing to people that can't really see them while they're playing. So obviously they're dancing to the music, so you can't follow them in the same way that you follow a singer. I want to say that with a caveat. You can follow them also. But as a rule, you have to keep in mind that they need structure. You can't see them, so that is— so you can't really, like, you know, connect in that way. So that's why what you do has to be involved with them but defined. Kind of very definite, you know, like this is, this is what it is. So they know where the music is. They need to know where the music is. That's in a way your primary responsibility is a structural responsibility. Now, when you're playing for singers, you know, I studied with Gil Kalish also, who was a great vocal accompanist, and he always said the pianist provides the structure in that too. So I, I, my career is not a vocal accompanist. Maybe you do more than I do. I used to do a lot when I was in school, but when I was accompanying voice, a lot of it was in the studio and a lot of it was about a kind of following or connecting, which is what made it so enjoyable. But I have to say that, you know, Gil, who was a great vocal accompanist, always talked about providing the structure.

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's more so for dancers. I guess they have to really keep the beat, right?

They keep a beat and they need to know where they are in the piece.

In the piece, yes. And it's impossible to sort of feeling each other, although you may, but because they're on a different, you know, you can't see them all the time.

It has to happen after. I mean, and it's when you play a solo piano piece like the Robbins piece I talked about, the Tchaikovsky, or Dances at a Gathering is an hour-long Chopin piece by Robbins with hard pieces like the B minor scherzo and all sorts of crazy stuff. When you play those things, you can connect more. But still, there's something that's agreed upon prior, really.

Right, right, right, right, right. That's why you spend so much time on rehearsals and—

You spend time in rehearsals, like the things I was showing before, different ways. And then once that way is established, you can connect. You know, that's the wonderful thing. But until that is established, and I suppose there are some dancers that are just, you know, spontaneous, and maybe you just throw the book out the window and just connect. And, you know, that's great if you can see them. Yeah, if you can see them.

But, uh, hey, TPP friends and listeners, The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song is in its third season.

Thanks to all of you for watching or listening to every episode episode since its launch in 2020. I started this show with a simple question I had in mind for quite some time, which is how can we as classical pianists and music educators present the beautiful classical music tradition to the 21st century audience in a fun and contemporary and stylish and engaging way. It's been an incredible journey for the last 3 years, and I love what I do through this podcast, providing a platform a platform for pianists and educators to reflect and discuss freely how we can keep the classical music industry thriving and relevant in this rapidly changing world. Now more than ever, I need your support so that I can continue my work by bringing you highly valuable content biweekly by interviewing groundbreakers in the industry. You can make a one-time donation or monthly pledge by clicking the PayPal link in the show notes or going to Piano Pod's website at thepianopod.com. As a thank you, you will receive the Piano Pod's fun logo sticker in the mail. So please support my show today and don't forget to subscribe and continue listening and tell your friends and colleagues about The Piano Pod. Let's continue with the episode.

And I, I just love, uh, dance because dance is, is another way that music can reach people because some people are more visual. Like they say, there are 7 types of learning, right? Some people are more— they, they learn with their eyes, and it's friendlier for them to hear a piece of music with choreography. It helps their imagination. They connect with the, the seeing someone move makes you feel your own body. Seeing stage set evokes, stimulates your imagination. You were talking about, you know, reaching people before we started the conversation, and one of the things that I feel really strongly about, you know, you were asking, you know, what is the relevance of music in society and stuff. Music and all art, it's a much more, in a way, it's a more specific language than the words we use because it combines ideas and emotions in a way that's much more sophisticated than we're able to. I mean, maybe if you're Shakespeare or something, you know, you can communicate those ideas in words. But people in the world has problems, people have problems, but they go to see a dance performance or— and it puts put them back in themselves, that in a way that's tremendously healthy, even practical. We really need that in the world. And, and art people, you know, say, oh, you shouldn't be an artist because, you know, I— you know, how are you going to make money and stuff? But it would be, it would be a terrible world if— just terrible— if no one tried to do it. Yeah, it is very, very hard, but it would be terrible. Without that, we would have more wars and we would have, you know, we would have more, probably more diseases, maybe even, you know, because the scientists wouldn't be as good because they would be unhappy people. Absolutely wonderful. It's, it's like the best medicine.

So that concludes the first half of this fun episode of The Piano Pod with Dr. Alan Moverman, pianosoloist at New York City Ballet. Tune in next Tuesday, April 4th, at 8 PM Eastern to hear the rest of Alan's stories from the backstage of the David H. Koch Theater at Lincoln Center, which is home to one of the most celebrated ballet companies in the world. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review it wherever you get your podcasts. You can also watch this episode on The Piano Pod's YouTube channel. And don't forget to follow my show on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. The links are listed in the show notes. Till next time.

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