Season 3, Episode 20, Part 2: David Hackbridge Johnson -- Composer & Multi-Instrumentalist

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It's just one of those strange things that you, that the music comes out, you think you know what you're doing, but Sometimes it's a bit strange, the creative process. Sometimes you're not thinking, you're listening. Oh, I will invert that theme and do double counterpoint with the blah blah blah, and then I'll use— No, I don't have any of those thoughts when I compose. I mean, it might be that once I've written a piece, you can go back and analyze it and see that that's exactly what I've done, but I won't be consciously— I don't know what other composers think when they compose, but Certainly for me, I might discover afterwards that I've done something— oh, that was quite clever, I did a bit of that, I did a bit of a stretto fugue there or whatever. But normally it's the listening that dictates the process. Often the music is already there, it's kind of up there somewhere so I can see it and hear it, an object, and all I have to do is bring it down and write it out.

Welcome back to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. Thanks for tuning in for the second half of Season 3, Episode 20, with a special guest, Mr. David Hakeridge Johnson, composer and multi-instrumentalist. In this second half, we focused on his compositions other than piano solo pieces, such as his 15 symphonies and recently premiered opera called Blaze of Glory and more. As always with each guest, We ended our conversation with philosophical questions such as how to keep our industry relevant in the post-pandemic era and how we classical musicians should reach out to the 21st century audience more creatively. Before starting this episode, I want to welcome everyone listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song for the first time. I'm a classical pianist and educator from New York City, passionate about creating a thriving and meaningful community of the classical music industry through this podcast. Please visit yukimisongstudio.com to find out more about my work. In each episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, I interview a guest speaker who has been breaking exciting new ground in the industry. So please rate the show and review it on your favorite podcasting platform because every rating review will help people find my show. So dear friends, Here is Part 2 of The Piano Pod Season 3, Episode 20 with David Hackridge Johnson. Please enjoy the show. We are always looking for new music, especially during COVID I think there was a big wake-up call where, you know, we classical musicians tend to stick with the, you know, good old regular composers. But then during the COVID time, we had more time to experiment and explore different things and realize that we need to play more new music. And then I think people should play your music more often, Mr. Huckeridge-Johnson, I think. So I would love to see your scores in my hands, you know, being published and then being able to purchase.

Well, I will consult with my, shall we say, my syndicate of supporters, which is basically my wife and my family. And see if we can't come up with a plan. It to me, because I'm always a bit obsessed with things, I write a piece and I think, oh yeah, I should try and get that out there. But when I get up the next day and I come down and I thought, actually, do you know what? It's easier just to write another piece. The simpler option for me is to write something new. If I've heard it, if something in my head, if it's not in my head, I don't write. It has to be there. The kernel has to be— of the idea has to be there. But that always seems to be an easier option than, than doing that extra mile where you actually get your music out. I mean, at this point, I should mention a person who is, of all people in recent years, is probably most responsible for any of my music appearing at all. And that's Martin Anderson, who's the director of Takata Classics, who I've known for 35 years probably. And we met through an organization called the Havergal Bryan Society. Our associations were really through other people's music, particularly neglected English music— British music, I should say. And in 2015, I had a health issue which was quite serious, but it was tremendously dealt with by my local hospital. But when I came out of the hospital and I was convalescing, I had a bit of a talking to myself because I knew that I had this monstrous pile of music which I'd never shown anyone to. People didn't know what I was doing. And I thought, what the hell, I'll send a copy of my Ninth Symphony to Martin. And he wrote back a couple of days later and said, what the hell have you been doing the last 30 years I've known you? What is the Opus 309, whatever it was? What on earth have you been doing all this time? And he sent this music, sent this Ninth Symphony to the conductor Paul Mann, who said, right, we're going to record this. So the rest of that, you probably know the CDs that came out consequently.. But someone had to say yes, someone had to say, okay, yeah, we— I believe in this piece, we're going to do it. And that person was Martin. And then the conductor was Paul, who then went forward with it. So I can't quite remember how we got onto this aspect, but, oh, the idea of self-promotion and the availability of music. I think it is very difficult for composers because, of course, There are hundreds of us. You know, you lift up a pile of leaves and there's 5 composers under there. You look in a waste bin and there's someone in there composing. We're everywhere. So it's extremely difficult because you could send a piano piece, you could send it to 100 pianists and not get one reply.

Yes, but there are too many pianists out there too. You know, always looking for wonderful, great music. You see my point? So there are too many of us, too many, too many podcasts, too many pianists, too many musicians. But then there's always your niche. And then somebody is recognizing you, someone like Lowell, someone like Steinway Company, right? So I really, I'm saying this not to twist your arm to do something that you don't want, but You know, we are always looking for great music. So, you know, you have more piano music that I listen to on YouTube. Songs of the Seasons, I listen to Tales from the Forest, and what else? Paraphrase on an English carol in the beautiful setting of Bristol Cathedral. I mean, I would love to try them, and I would love for my students to try some of the smaller pieces.

I wrote a lot of pieces. I started to write an enormous amount of piano music after I met Ronald Stevenson. He invited me to a summer school that he wasn't running, but it was a society, the Ronald Stevenson Society was running it. And he said, well, why don't you come? And I went up there. I had written piano music beforehand, but This was a revelation because Ronald Stevenson is a great pianist, a great composer, and of course he attracted lots of pianists to the summer school. And two of the pianists I met— well, I first of all, I met Chisato Kusunoki, who was at the summer school, and I wrote a lot of pieces for her. And I met her teacher subsequently, Nicholas Austin, who lives up the road here, who is a marvelous pianist who tends to specialize in the Romantic repertoire— Chopin, Rachmaninoff— but also composers like Godovsky, of whom he's, in my opinion, a really leading expert in Godovsky's very, very difficult, very, very beautiful piano music. And I started to— once I'd been exposed to their way of playing and their approach to the piano, I began to perceive the piano more in terms of the sound and the textures of a piano, the sonorities of a piano, rather than just thinking, oh, I thought of a really good tune and just, you know, do that. So it became not just about material, but it became about the medium. And I wrote a lot of piano music which was exploring that sonority. I think one of the pieces I wrote at that time, which isn't on the album, is Five Coloured Parakeet, which Cisato recorded many years ago now, which I felt was a bit of a breakthrough piece for me because it was the first piece where I thought, I'm thinking in terms of the piano rather than just thinking in terms of a piece that could be written for anything. That really changed my approach and probably why I've written so much. I mean, I love the piano as an instrument because I play it all the time and mainly improvising, mainly jazz. But I love it as a, as an instrument to compose for. And you've got these great pianists and they're at your back. They're thinking, well, you know, write me something good, you know, write me something for the piano. The piano is a beautiful instrument, right? You know, it really is because it's an instrument. It's an instrument, isn't it? It can't sing. The piano can't sing. It's not singing, is it? But yet it does sing. If you write it in the right way, it can sing as well as any other instrument.

How about orchestral work? How many symphonies did you write?

Well, I've written 15 symphonies and I keep trying to write a 16th symphony. But because I've spent the last 4 years writing operas, I'm getting a bit stuck now. So I start my 16th— I've started my 16th symphony about 5 or 6 times now, and it goes very well up until about 4 minutes. And then I think to myself, well, hang on, somebody should come in and sing now. So somebody should be singing because I'm so now involved in this. It is a very involving world, the world of opera, where instead of just writing half an hour's music, you've got to write 2 hours plus. You've got a libretto which dictates to you what you have to write. And you have the dramatic concepts of narrative which inevitably make you write in a different way. And so now I'm quite finding it quite hard to write a long orchestral piece. I keep expecting someone to go in, burst in and suddenly go, "Oh, the king is dead!" I think, "Oh, that's the end of that symphony.

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Now that you mentioned about opera, I want to know more about this Blaze of Glory. And it's interesting, this opera was Set in the 1950s Welsh valleys mining community. And then I saw the little bit of a mini clip of this opera. There were like a lot of audience reactions and your comments. And then there's like a few sections in the opera of this male choir singing that, that's actually quite remarkable. It's different. So tell us a little bit more about this Blaze of Glory.

It is an unusual piece because it combines lots of different types of music. Because it's set in the 1950s and the libretto is very much of that time, it lays out quite clear— the librettist is Emma Jenkins, an absolutely marvelous writer— and it lays out quite clearly the types of songs and the types of music that are required. That go with the story. So the basic story is that a Welsh male voice choir, its numbers have become decimated due to a pit explosion down the mines and they're very depressed, but there's a move to try and stimulate the choir master Mr Pugh, who's played quite magnificently by Geoff Lloyd Roberts in the production, to start the choir again. Come on, stop being miserable, we've got to So the first quarter of the opera really is trying to persuade this rather downcast man that, no, we can still sing, and in fact that we must sing because it's our hope of salvation. And so of course the repertoire of the Welsh Male Voice Choir— it's difficult to say— plays an important part in the piece. So there are several set pieces and some pieces that we've actually revived from the old repertoire of pieces that were sung in the 1940s and 1950s. They form part of the opera. There's also a close harmony vocal group consisting of 3 ladies who are really like the Andrews Sisters, so it's got a lot of American influence in it. So there's quite a lot of jazzy numbers in which, which are right there in the text, and it also has a competition which has to be set to music. So there's a competition between choirs because, of course, in Wales there's a great history of competitive singing through the Eisteddfods. And the choir does eventually get going. And so far, so good. It's quite male-orientated. It's rough miners in the bar arguing. But actually, it's got two remarkable aspects to it, all based on fact, I might add. This has all been thoroughly researched by Emma and it's all factual. That they kidnap a countertenor from a rival choir. So this guy, and it's played by, by Fergal, Fergal Mostyn Evans, who's got this marvellous countertenor voice, and he teaches the male voice choir to yodel. And it's all based on a true story. And there's also a character called Miss Price. Now, of course, like a lot of societies that on the surface at least, and perhaps even going quite deep down, they look 100% patriarchal, they look male-dominated. The men are, they're quite gung-ho, they're quite, you know, they think they're in control, but actually in a lot of ways they're not. They're really, their behaviour, at least to a certain extent, is being governed by their womenfolk, and it's in fact Miss Price who not only galvanizes Mr. Pew to start conducting again, but also excites his emotions. So there's a very improbable love story between these people who are deliberately portrayed as of a certain age. They're no spring chickens, and they form this rather unlikely bond, which, which I think when I read the libretto, I thought, gosh, I've got to write some nice music here because it's a very touching aspect to it. So it has a community feel to it because of all these different musical aspects that come into it, and it was an absolute joy to write, and I've been so lucky with the creative team. Caroline Clegg has produced this fabulous staging which almost never stops, it's this tremendous activity, and Ryan Upton has, has been consulting on the choreography, and I've got the marvellous Stevie Higgins in the pit, who is just this wonderful kind of center of calmness and musicality that keeps the whole thing going. So it came out of nowhere. Well, I— it was quite strange because I was doing my teaching and doing the occasional jazz gig and minding my own business. And I suddenly get a text from someone saying, you've got to go and meet David Pountney, the director. About doing an opera for WNO. And I thought, oh, well, at first I thought it was an April Fool's joke, but it was January and I went and discussed it and I got that job. The very next day I got another phone call from Jonathan Bookter, who runs Surrey Opera, and he offered me the job of doing an opera called Madeleine based on Madeleine Smith, the famous Scottish poisoner.

Allegedly.

So I had two suddenly from not really doing anything, just minding my own business. I had two opera commissions on successive days. And so, of course, the first thing I did when I got home, I thought to myself, help! What am I going to do? Suddenly got all this enormous quantity of music. So it completely takes you over. So I'm up at 5 in the morning working till midday and then collapsing. Went on like that for years.

You have two operas?

Yes, Madelaine was performed last year by Surrey Opera and Blaze of Glory is in, well, it's coming to the end of its run actually. We've done, I think, 4, 5 performances in Wales and 5 or 6, is it, in England. There are 2 more to go and yeah, it's a lot of fun and the What pleased me actually, the audiences have been lovely, and also the musicians appear to really enjoy doing it, which is obviously a bonus one.

Wow, amazing. Then you also wrote ballet music too in the past, right?

It's never been performed. A choreographer has not had a whiff of any of these pieces, although funnily enough, because I got to know Ryan, with WNO, he has suggested something. I won't say too much about it in case nothing ever happens, but, but he does have a desire to do at some point a full-length ballet. But watch this space. I think it's the best thing to say about it. It's a very, very interesting subject, and I'm amazed it's not been done before. So I better keep quiet about it in case it gets pinched.

Okay, wow. Now, how are you composing all these different genres? I'm sure you attend a lot of opera concerts and ballet, and you know inside out about the industry too, but composing is a different thing, you know, especially, you know, when you think of opera, you— there's so there are so many elements to it, not just the singers, orchestra pit, and also choreography being involved. And there's like a dialogue involved in a ballet. You have to think about choreography. And I honestly, I took just like a few years of ballet when I was a kid. That's the only knowledge I have with ballet. And then, wow, I can't even imagine what sort of like knowledge you have to have to create.

Well, I can't dance for toffee. I mean, I can tread on people's toes, but I can't dance. But I can look at dancing and I can appreciate it. In fact, I find the ballet absolutely extraordinary because I'm a bit physically lumbering. I find that what goes on, on a ballet stage is to me utterly miraculous. It moves me. To see it and to think of the utterly glorious music that they have. What a wonderful life. I mean, I know it's terribly hard and they get injuries and it can be cutthroat, but what an extraordinary world to be involved in. But yes, so I watch ballet, I go to the ballet and I go to the opera because I think, you know, that's the way to learn. You've got the best stuff out there. I mean, who's going to write better ballet music than Tchaikovsky? Not me. But you can learn from it. You can learn how it's done. And the great thing about doing an opera or a ballet is that it's a collaborative thing. Obviously, when you're writing, the composer writes completely alone. I mean, I don't let people in to tell me what to write. I mean, I have to write it myself and then you let it go. Because it then has to go to the director and the musical director. And if I get a phone call— and this did happen, this happened with both the operas— you get a phone call and think, well, David, yes, we've got this bit of music here, but actually we only need to get 3 characters off stage and 2 characters on stage, but you've given us a 4.5-minute entr'acte. Do you mind if we— they want to cut it. So you think about it for a bit and you think, yeah, well, yes, if it's going to make the drama flow, you've got to let things go. So there's that collaborative aspect where your part of you, the egocentric part of you, wants to say, no, you must play every single thing I've written exactly as I've written it. You can't do that. Because I'm not a director, I'm not a choreographer, they're the professionals, they know what's going to work on stage and I trust them not to do serious damage to my music, which they don't. I mean, literally it's a few things here and actually sometimes they ask for more music because they've had a change of heart about how to do a scene change. A lot of these questions are about scene changes. How much music do you need and what's actually going on? Somebody might need a costume change. Well, how long does it take to get in and out of a suit? You literally have to time it, you literally have to put stopwatch on the character and say, right, go! How can they come off stage, change clothes, come back on stage all safely in the dark with just a, you know, just a bit of light on them? Do that safely, come on, that's the amount of music you need. So the composer has to think about that and not be too egocentric about things that need changing. And in the end, when you see it and you know they're right, you do it absolutely right, what they're asking you to do. And that was the case with both Jonathan, who not only conducted but directed Madeleine as well, and also Caroline, who, who's directing Blaze. All of those things, they were fairly minor things compositionally, but they all amazingly made so much difference to the dramatic flow of the totality, which you must have. Otherwise audiences get— they switch off, don't they?

Thank you. I never knew that part of compositional process. And obviously I'm not a composer, so—

You're not yet a composer, but who knows?

I don't think I will ever be. It's okay.

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You know, you, you are multi-instrumentalist. You, you mentioned that you started learning violin first, not piano. The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. Because your brother was an excellent pianist, so you chose a different path, and also jazz music. Then you can play violin, piano, drum. You can also sing. Any other instrument you can play?

Well, I have played other instruments. I'm interested in free jazz, completely free-form jazz. And intermittently over the last 20, 30 years or even 40 years, I have played freeform jazz, often using instruments that aren't my specialities, simply in order to access a different voice. So for instance, I can get noises out of things like trumpets and clarinets, but I've quite deliberately not learned to play them properly, so that what you get is a series of sound effects. And I've got two very, very old and very close friends, Marcus Wright and Paul Rogers, with whom I've done a lot of this kind of thing. And it's very, very interesting. I was inspired initially to explore this style of music by listening to Cecil Taylor and Ornette Coleman, who are two of my really great heroes. Cecil Taylor is an extraordinary pianist who appears to be playing free, but actually he's using an awful lot of patterns and things that he's worked out, often very bluesy, also using modes, of which he's a really expert improviser in the modes, but also quite chunky, almost late romantic piano textures. You hear him do things like this. That's a kind of Cecil Taylor type sound. Which seems to me a lot of what he does is derived from Brahms's Second Piano Concerto. But he's often playing quite atonally and he's a very percussive pianist. And I thought it was a revelation when I first heard him play. And so I thought, well, I want to try and do that. So I have done some free jazz piano playing, but often when I'm with Marcus and Paul, I think, okay, let's see what, what what's going to happen with the euphonium, for instance, which again, I can make noises down. And I don't have any of these instruments here to demonstrate for you, alas.

It's okay. Wow. You know, you also composed pieces for like, you know, viola. I really enjoy listening to the Seven Versets for Viola played by Peter Shepherd. I can't pronounce his last name.

Peter Shepherd. Scarver.

Scarver.

He's a force of nature. He's one of those, he's one of those guys. The pianist Jonathan Powell is another one. Wonderful pianist who's played some of my music. They're kind of forces of nature because I mean, Lowell is a bit like this, the way Lowell can learn things so quickly and get deeply into them. Peter's like that. Peter can have a discussion with you and his discussions are always incredibly lively and informative, and they go around all sorts of different subjects. And before you know it, you've talked yourself into writing a piece because there's some inspiration point that you've grabbed onto. And so almost every time I hear Peter play or I meet Peter and we have a discussion, I think, oh, I've got— there's a piece coming. There's a piece of solo viola music or solo violin music. Coming out. And that's exactly what happened with the Versets. He'd given a concert. He gives concerts in, in the beautiful London churches, a series that's now been going on for many, many years. He gives quite a number of concerts yearly, every year. And he was playing on a particular viola, which, if I remember correctly, and he will correct me if I get this wrong, it's the Jacob Rahman viola. Which I think is— it's 1600 and something. It's a very, very old instrument, and it has an absolutely beautiful sound. And we got into this whole idea of thinking about instruments as having individual characteristics. It sounds an obvious thing to say, but most of the time as a composer, when you write a piano piece or a violin piece, you've no idea what kind of piano or violin it's going to be played on. It could be anything. It could be a honky-tonk or it could be a Steinway grand. You don't really know. It depends on the venue, depends what's available. So I became interested in writing a piece not just for an individual violinist or violist, but for an individual specific instrument. So that's how the Versets came about. I also wrote a set of pieces for a violin that Peter often uses. For his Baroque recital work, which is a violin that on the belly there's a stamp which says Charles II on it. So this was a violin, probably one of many violins that Charles II owned because he had a violin group. So there's an extraordinary history behind this. It's a beautiful instrument. It's quite a soft instrument. It's not like the modern big sound. It's a gentle, soft, sweet tone. And I thought, I'm going to write a piece just for this instrument.

Hey, TPP friends and listeners! The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song is in its third season. Thanks to all of you for watching or listening to every episode since its launch in 2020. I started this show with a simple question I had in mind for quite some time, which is, how can we as classical pianists and music educators present the beautiful classical music tradition to the 21st century audience in a fun, contemporary, and engaging way. It's been an incredible journey for the last 3 years. I love what I do through this podcast, providing a platform for pianists and educators to reflect and discuss freely how we can keep the classical music industry thriving and relevant in this rapidly changing world. Now more than ever, I need your support so that I can continue my work by bringing you highly valuable content biweekly by interviewing groundbreakers in the industry. Your support will go directly to all the costs of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song, such as a yearly subscription to the podcast hosting platform, the software I use for high-quality recording sessions and tech gear, as well as all the hours I spend researching and audio and video editing. You can make a one-time donation or monthly pledge by clicking the PayPal link in the show notes or going to TPP's website at thepianopod.com. As a thank you, you will receive The Piano Pod's fun logo sticker in the mail. So please support my show today and don't forget to subscribe, continue listening, and tell your friends and colleagues about The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. Let's continue with the episode. Now let's get into a little bit more philosophical questions. So You know, I would like to know your vision for the classical music industry. So what is your thought on keeping classical music relevant and this classical music industry thriving in this really fast-paced society and especially in this post-pandemic era?

I think a lot of that has got to do with schools. School music. I can't speak for any other country, but I know from my own experience as a as a teacher of music and also from colleagues, I know that classical music is under a little bit of pressure, partly because, of course, it's, it's often easier, an easier option to study other types of music, partly because there's a completely erroneous idea surrounding classical music to do with elitism, to do with having to have money or having to have class breeding or whatever you're supposed to have to to play classical music. And I think that's damaging. Both of those things are damaging because I think classical music should be available to all. It's not easy, but then we wouldn't expect to do easy physics if we wanted to get on in science, would we? So I think it's, it's right to have those challenges. But at the same time, you shouldn't then have a hierarchy where you start to discriminate against other types of music. Many of which, let's face it, don't have any notational aspect. So I think it's important to have a perspective and to have classical music as part of a general musical education, not instead of, and not within some kind of pyramid structure. I think with children, particularly young children, they don't know necessarily the differences between different types of music. It's adults that like to pigeonhole. So if you take, if you take a bunch of small children to a rock concert, I think, yeah, that's great. Then the next week, if you take them to a ballet, they'll think, well, that's great. They haven't necessarily had those non-musical aspects of reasoning that might be telling them, well, maybe it's not so cool to like this. Maybe I should not be liking this. There's also the other aspect that they simply might be bored. And that, that's okay. You shouldn't be— you can't force people to, to like things. But if you've decided from day one that classical music is difficult, it's elitist, it's for posh people, then you've already lost the argument. You're condemning it to a slow death. And we have actually seen in this country declining numbers of children, declining numbers in the uptake of of music exams for secondary school children, for instance, which is a great shame. So I think it begins with the schools. I think also you mentioned something which I think is very interesting, the idea of the fast-paced society. I think it's a good thing to step off the hamster wheel. I think classical music is one of those things that allows you to do that. Some people meditate, don't they? They might have terribly stressful jobs and they come in, well, you know, I'm just going to get into a nice position. I'm going to meditate. I'm going to let the thoughts come in and I'm going to process them. I'm not saying that music is just therapeutic, but it can have a role if, for instance, we catch ourselves. I think even musicians, we catch ourselves doing this. We think, oh, I'm going to listen to music, but I'm going to do loads of other things at the same time. I'm going to wash the dishes. I'm going to cook a meal. I'm going to put the baby to bed. I'm going to do a resume. I'm going to do— actually, why not just do nothing but listen to music and see what it does to you? See what it does to your perception of time and energy and flow. Naturally, you find, oh, oh no, I'm now a different person when I'm listening.

Absolutely. Thank you.

Fast isn't necessarily good.

Right.

Yes. I think if the pandemic has taught us anything, if we've been lucky enough to come through it unscathed, if it's taught us anything, it's space and time. I think I can't speak for— okay, I'll just speak for myself. For me, I became aware of space and time. What happens? You don't have anything to do now. You can't go out. You can't work. You can maybe do a bit of work on a computer at home, but you can't really go to work. You've suddenly got all this space that you fill with thoughts.

Classical music allows you to do that, to create the space. Absolutely. Whether you are listening or learning a classical music instrument. Yes, absolutely. Now, so in relation to that question, how can we as classical musicians reach out to the 21st century audience in a more creative way?

I've seen a lot of amazing work done in— again, it's back down to schools again, really. With professional companies now having really fantastic outreach departments where instead of, as they might have done 30, 40 years ago, saying, well, we're just going to put on a series of concerts and that's it, you can buy the tickets and come or not. Now a lot of companies are going out into schools, into universities, into, into workplaces. They're also involving themselves with the handicapped, with the learning difficulties children. Also with in practical ways actually inviting people who have got nothing to do with the music profession to participate in actual music making. And I think that's, that's, that's really good because that, that does help to break down those barriers, this erroneous perception of classical music as something that's up there and you can't reach it. So English National Opera, for instance, which has been in the news for all sorts of reasons, has an amazing set of initiatives and started some of them in during COVID One of the things was how singing can help your health. I think it's called Breathe. I think that was their initiative, that singing is good for you because you get stuff in your lungs and they've done a lot of things like that. Of course, one can't mention ENO without mentioning the fact that they there was an enormous threat to their funding. There's a problem here because on the one hand, the government wants an expanding art sector that expands into areas where it traditionally wouldn't have gone into. But at the same time, it's strapped for cash, though it's giving with one hand and it's taking away with the other. So ENO is tremendously successful It's our local opera company, if you like. We go there all the time, either to there or to Covent Garden. The amazing thing is you can get a seat for £15, which I guess is about $18, $19, something like that. So what's elitist about that? You could save up your pocket money and go once a month. A school kid could go. You could sit there and listen to Bergs Wozzeck. For £15. It's unbelievable. It's for everybody. It really is for everybody. Yet, of course, it's heavily subsidized because opera can't make money. It's just too expensive. And when the subsidy is pulled away, those opportunities, those areas where you want to expand into, into youth or into people that wouldn't necessarily think of going to the opera— they offer free tickets to under-21s— those schemes, those subsidized schemes are under threat, and it then reduces the company's ability to do that outreach, to do that vital work, because your future audience is always the young.

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Now then, another question is: under the umbrella of classical music, how far can we push in terms of multidisciplinary works and performances, multi-genre, let's say?

Well, I think a lot of that stuff's been going on for some time. I remember— well, I don't remember. Yes, I do remember when I discovered something called fusion, where jazz musicians in the '60s were thinking, hang on a minute, these rock boys are getting one over on us. We're not, we're not pulling in the sales. We're not getting the gigs anymore. I know, get an electric guitarist and electric keyboard player in the band and we'll change our style a bit. Now, for jazz purists, this was a horror show. But for people with slightly more open minds, you could suddenly then go out and buy, you know, the latest Herbie Hancock album, for instance, where instead of just having your classic jazz quintet, your tenor sax and trumpet, piano, bass and drums, you've got a whole bank of keyboards and electric guitar players. Now, of course, The trick is you want to produce high quality music in whatever genre you're in. And the news out, of course, is there's a lot of stuff in all genres that is not very good, is not very interesting. It doesn't, doesn't last the test of time. But that's true also of traditional jazz as well as fusion. So it's not an argument against changing the style. If you refresh the style, it can potentially open up a new audience for the music who might in the end go back and buy Herbie Hancock's earlier albums. Hey, that Herbie Hancock's really cool. He plays acoustic. A lot of that is going on. And I think again, we've seen a lot of changes in concert programming where now most orchestras in this country, instead of just having a wonderful, wonderful series of, of classical concerts, they'll go into a school or they'll do a gig with a, with a pop star, or they'll get together with some local musicians who are working with drum and bass or turntables or electronic music. And they say, okay, what happens if we put these two things together? Might be a bit of a mishmash, but let's see what happens. You have a symphony orchestra and a reggae band or whatever it is. Now, again, there's every hope of success and every chance of failure. But that's the true, true of any venture.

But, you know, honestly, I think your piano pieces, particularly because I'm a pianist, so I want to promote, should be played more often. You know, I hope that your piano music, at least your piano music, will be available to a lot of people in the future. That's my hope.

I'm gonna write something down. I'm gonna write that down. Note to self: publish my own music. There you go.

Great. I hope you don't lose that note. Great. Wonderful.

It's on your envelope.

Yeah, I will remind you every time I see it. Wonderful. So what's your next phase or step in your career? Is there any fun project coming up?

Well, I'm writing another opera as we speak. I've got another opera from Surrey Opera. Jonathan Butcher has very kindly asked me to do another piece. Again, I better not tell you too much about it in case someone pinches it because again it's one of those ideas where I think, my goodness, why has nobody thought of that story before? So I'm half— I've finished the first act a couple of weeks ago, so I'm having a bit of a rest and gearing myself up for the second act. So that will be finished by the end of the year and hopefully go into production next year. And that's it really, because that takes up all my brain space. I mean, I'm always writing short pieces, little pieces, just to keep the juices flowing, really. So there'll be little pieces, but the main project is the next opera.

Wonderful. So before we go, this is a tradition that I usually ask to each guest: any advice for young upcoming musicians, composers?

Join an orchestra. Or a wind band or a choir or form a string quartet or form a band, form a jazz group, form a rock group, play together, find out what it's like to play with other people, and then start writing things for those groups. See what happens.

Thank you so much. So if you're interested in learning more about Mr. David Hackbarth Johnson, please go to his blog site. It's called dhackj.com. Blogspot.com. And also, Mr. Hackerbridge Johnson has a YouTube channel. It's youtube.com/@dhackj, D-Hack-J, so, uh, so that you can listen to his music, some piano music and orchestral music and some chamber music on his YouTube channel. So Before I let you go, it's been a really wonderful conversation. What a wealth of knowledge you have, and it's a very privilege to really speak with you today. However, we're not done yet. There's one more thing to do. It's called The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with rapid-fire questions, and this is part of the show where I get to ask fun questions to each guest. Now, here's a little warning: as silly as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who you truly are. So I hope you're ready.

But is the audience ready?

Ready or not, here we come, right? Okay, so please answer them with shortest responses possible, and no explanation is necessary. Question number 1: What is your comfort food?

Cornflakes.

That is so cute. Question number 2: How do you like your coffee?

I don't like coffee.

Cats or dogs?

Cats.

What is your word or words to live by?

Be kind to each other.

What is the most important quality you look for in other people?

Follows on, really, kindness.

Name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead. Haydn, Haydn, and Haydn, who wrote like 100 5 symphonies. So, hey, you have—

I've got a long way to go.

That's right. Name one piece in your current playlist.

Oh, Arnold Bax's 7th Symphony.

Okay. I need to check it out. Yeah. Right.

Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Gorgeous.

So the last question, fill in the blank. Music is blank.

Everything.

Wow, beautifully said.

Also love.

Love. Oh, music is love. Perfect. Great. Thank you so much. So this concludes the episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with David Hackridge Johnson. Thank you, David, for joining my show today and sharing your stories and insights and expertise. And you can learn more about Mr. Hackridge Johnson through his blog site at dhackj.com. .blogspot.com. And you can also find his music on YouTube channel and other music streaming services if you are interested in his, you know, symphonies and also piano music. The links are listed in the show notes. And thank you to my wonderful audience and fans for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate the, uh, rate and review it on whatever podcasting platform you use. Remember to hit the thumbs up button and subscribe to my YouTube channel if you are watching this episode on YouTube. Follow The Piano Pod on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod. Uh, thank you for watching, and thank you so much, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Hackerbridge Johnson. Thank you, everyone.

Pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.

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