The Piano Pod, Season 2, Episode 10: Ching-Wen Hsiao & Konstantinos Valianatos--Concert Pianists & Faculty Members at The Tianjin Juilliard School

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Hello everyone, welcome back to The Piano Pod with Clara Zhang and Yukimi Song. For anyone listening or watching our show for the first time, welcome! Yukimi and I are both classical pianists and piano teachers from New York City, and this podcast is for anyone who plays the piano for fun, loves listening to piano music, or for someone who is currently pursuing a career in piano or works in the industry professionally. Or anyone who is simply curious about the world of piano music.

In each episode, we interview a guest speaker who has been breaking exciting new ground in the music industry. Before getting started, we want to thank our listeners for tuning in. Please rate our show and review on Apple Podcasts because every rating and review will help people find our show.

Today, I want to start this episode with a fun game with our audience. Yukimi Song, what do you think?

Okay, sure.

All right, so audience and dear listeners and viewers, when you hear someone who is studying, uh, you know, music intensively to become a professional musician, what is the name of the school that pops into your head first?

I mean, I can think of a few, you know, this— yeah, but I know this answer. Yeah.

Ah, you're there? Okay, all right, let's say it. 1, 2, 3.

Juilliard.

Okay, well, yeah, ding ding ding, we are winning the urgent fire question already. We have had so many guests in our previous episodes that, you know, have talked about Juilliard, either have studied there or have taught there, but well, we have today 2 very special guests, and they are faculty members at Juilliard, also fabulous pianists. But most importantly, guess what? They are faculties of Juilliard in my hometown in Tianjin, China.

Wow, you know that, right? That's so cool. Yeah, I mean, I've heard there is a Juilliard School open in Tianjin, but I have never met anyone who, you know, is affiliated. To Tianjin Juilliard School. So I can't wait. So tell me, because I've never been to China actually. So where is Tianjin?

So Tianjin is the city near the coast, it's on the ocean. It's about 2 hours driving from Beijing. And but with the bullet train right now, it's like 21 or 23 minutes. It's very fast. It's considered like the door to Beijing. So even back in the days, people, you know, during the war or whatever time they come on the boat and they will come to my city and it's considered the culture center. You know, it's a lot of people even in China, it's really the second biggest city near Shanghai and Tianjin and Beijing. But only if you're really into comedies or food, you know Tianjin. Yeah. And the music obviously also was. So I'm very proud that Julia came to my hometown.

So for the purpose of this episode, why don't you tell us a bit about Juilliard, the Juilliard School?

Absolutely, yes. So Juilliard School is a private performing arts conservatory established in 1905 in New York City. It is widely regarded as one of the world's leading drama, music, and dance schools. In 2015, the Juilliard School announced a major expansion into Tianjin during a visit by China's First Lady Peng Liyuan. Since then, the Tianjin Juilliard School is growing. It became the first performing arts institute in China to confer a US-accredited Master of Music degree in 2021. They also have different components such as a Saturday pre-college program for students aged 8 to 18, continuing education programs for professionals and adult learners, and public performances, and more.

Wow, that is incredible. You must be so proud of your hometown and expansion. It's quite amazing. I mean, seems like the world seems to be coming together or coming closer, connected through music, right?

That is very true. Yes, and that's why we are so excited to welcome our today's guest, Dr. Chiwen Hsiao and Dr. Constantinos Valeonados, both graduates of the Juilliard School, and now they are both faculty members at Juilliard Tianjin. I cannot wait to hear about their stories and experiences. And for those young musicians, students watching or listening to this episode who dream of attending Juilliard one day, we want to dedicate this episode to you. We hope this interview will inspire you to practice more and create beautiful music every single day. So Yukimi, let's get the show started, shall we?

Yes! You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.

So we are very excited to introduce our guests of episode number 9, Dr. Qiumin Xiu and Dr. Costantinos Valentinakis. Noddles, or Mrs. and Mr. Valentino Xiao Piano Duo, a talented piano duo as well as wonderful solo pianists and teachers. So welcome to our show.

Welcome. Thank you so much for coming.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you, Clara. Thank you, Yukimi.

Thank you.

Of course.

How is Tianjin?

Everything's good. It's getting warmer and sunny today. Right.

I'm sure everybody's preparing for Chinese New Year. Coming up soon, right?

Everybody's preparing for Chinese New Year. Everybody's preparing for the Beijing Winter Olympic Games.

Oh, that's right.

That's right. That's very exciting.

Yeah, we hope to attend, but we will see. There's all sorts of challenges.

Oh, you might. So for our audience, let me start by introducing Dr. Chi-Wen Hsiao, a Taiwanese-American pianist, stanmei artist. She has performed extensively extensively as soloist and chamber musician throughout the United States, Europe, and Asia in venues such as Carnegie Hall, Royal Recital Hall, David Griffin Hall at Lincoln Center, Rubinstein Hall at the Munich, and Taiwan Concert Hall. She has made her concerto debut at the age of 16 with Saiboh Youth Symphony in the Philippines with performance of Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1. Dr. Hsiao served as assistant professor of piano at the West Virginia University and Southwest Eastern University, and she currently teaches at the Juilliard School.

Now let me introduce Dr. Konstantinos Valianatos. He is a native of Athens, Greece, founding member of the award-winning Olympus Piano Trio. As an advocate for new music, he works with living composers and has premiered their works, such as Christos Hattis' piano work "Face to Face." Dr. Valianatos recorded works by Mendelssohn, Ravel, Hattis, and Dmitri Smirnov for LP Classics and Naxos. And he has also collaborated with numerous orchestras and performed in venues such as the White House, Salle Cortot in Paris, Carnegie Hall, Benedict Music Tent, and Harris Concert Hall in Aspen. He was honored by the President of Greece, Kostas Stefanopoulos, with the highest Akklid from the Academy of Athens in Greece for his work and artistic Integrity.

Oh, so great. Thank you so much. It's such an honor to have you guys on. So again, it's, uh, we've been in contact since the summer and we've been waiting for forever, you know. Actually, for me, I wanted to interview you guys around the Chinese New Year time, so it all worked out perfectly. And let me just tell our audience a little bit how I met, uh, Dr. Xiao, uh, several years ago. I think when I first opened the studio, uh, and I was putting on some piano recitals in the Stanley Hall in New York City. And I remember one of my friends was working with you, and I went in one day, and, you know, this lovely associate came to greet me, and we kept in touch. And little before I knew, you know, a few years later, you would move to my hometown, Tianjin, to teach for Juilliard. Oh my goodness. And I'm so glad we kept in touch, and I've been so inspired by both of your work, and I watch all of your videos, and trying to tell my parents to come to your show. I mean, COVID has changed everything, but they said they are going to go and drive over there. Actually, you're in Tungu District, right? Near Tungu, the—

Near Tungu, in Binhai.

Right, Binhai, Xinqiu, right. That's where I spent a lot of my summers in the past. My grandma— grandparents had a house in Tungu, so when I was a child, I would, you know, sometimes I spent summers there. Yeah.

It's a really nice area for the Tianjin Juilliard School to be located at. I think it was a very smart and just the perfect place for the new school, for the new satellite school of the Juilliard School. Yeah.

If you want to leave, you just get on a boat, right?

I went to Japan. We could swim back to our apartments. All the way back.

We are in front of a river that if you take it all the way through, it can arrive right in front of the Juilliard School.

Oh my goodness. Well, I can't wait to come to visit you guys one day when I'm finally allowed to come back into China again. So yeah, so before, when we, you know, as we're starting, we just, we have some questions, we have a lot of questions, but in the beginning, I would like to know what was your childhood like as a musician? Like, you know, were you from musical families? Were you exposed to music? Or literature very early on? And most importantly, how did you guys meet?

The juicy questions.

That's right.

So, okay, sure.

Yeah, well, I grew up in Athens, Greece, and I started playing the piano probably around the age of 7. And my parents just love music in general, not only classical music, actually. I didn't grow up with classical music listening at home, Greek traditional music or art music, rock music. Classical music was something I was playing a lot of, but I was listening to a different kind of music when I was growing up. And my sister had started, she's a year older, she had started playing the piano before I did, about 1 year before I did. And so that's kind of how it all started.

So you were jealous. You were like, let me practice.

I think I really, really liked the sound of the piano. Yeah. So then my parents gave it a shot. We had the instrument at home and one thing led to another and here we are.

Oh my goodness. That's amazing. What about you, Dr. Shao?

Well, so my mom was a dance and art teacher and she loved music. So she bought a piano before I was born and she was teaching at home. She had a dance studio. So I grew up dancing. Then later on at age 4, started piano, then just really loved it, you know, still danced throughout high school. And then probably at age 12, decided that music is what I want to do, you know, for life. And I focus on, on music. And I also went to specialized music school since age 6 and all the way until I left for the States. So it's sort of being immersed in art from a young age.

And the most important question—

Oh, how do we make it? Who's going to tell the story?

You tell it.

I mean, it is so rare, really, you know, but we were going to actually interview another couple that also— they both teach at Juilliard, and we haven't worked out the time yet, but it's amazing, you know. But sometimes I also think about this as a musician. We spend so much time in the practice rooms, right? Sometimes we have to meet our colleague. And so tell us, what was it like?

So we met in a practice room? No, no, we did not.

No, he did not play in the practice room.

We did not.

No, we actually met at the Aspen Music Festival. We were both at Juilliard at the time, but we didn't meet there. We met at the festival. And I was my teacher, Veda Kaplinsky's teaching assistant. And he was there as a student, and you somehow— we met at the airport. Just all really nice coincidence that we met, and one thing led to the other, and here we are 12 years later.

Wow, it's been that long. Oh my goodness, 2010. I saw some lovely photos of your wedding. Why not, you guys?

That was a fun evening.

Yes.

Well, Greek wedding, right?

It's like the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

Lots of people, lots of good food and companionship and lots of dancing.

Dancing till 5 AM.

Oh my goodness. That's the one. That's how you do it.

Oh my God.

I still have the blisters in my feet to prove the fun that we had.

Up to today, right? Wonderful.

So then from there, but we— I just have to turn the clock a little backward, but I am also curious to know about your Juilliard experiences. Uh, I'm sure, um, both of you went through Juilliard, all from undergraduate till doctorate degree. Yes, that's a, that's a big achievement. I— we just— we actually interviewed quite a few Juilliard graduate artists such as, uh, Jeff Jeffrey Beagle, Frederick Chu, Vera Anselmo, and then who is—

last night we just released an episode with Lowell Lieberman.

Yes, we saw that.

Oh, you did?

Very well done.

Thank you. Yeah, but he— so in the conversations, like, you know, he was saying there's a Juilliard that he was in back in those days and then now. So I'm just curious to know, you know, about your experiences as a student at Juilliard.

Well, yeah, so I was there for essentially 10 years, 4 years, 4 years of— actually 11 years, I think. 4 years of my bachelor, 2 years of my master's, and then 5 years of my doctoral studies. So it was, it was, it was a long, it was a long time at the school and It has been a transformative experience for me. Of course, when I first came to Juilliard, you know, I came straight from Greece. It was the first time out of the country officially. I studied in Paris, I studied in other places, but I never truly lived. I was more, you know, traveling back and forth. So going abroad to study is just such a— it's an experience that you can't really put into words. You know, everything about it is new and fresh and challenging and rewarding.— and it's just an incredible experience. Of course, at Juilliard, you know, we had absolutely top-notch education, wonderful faculty members, you know, all of our piano teachers, Jerome Lowenthal, Julian Martin, Veda Kaplinsky. They all have contributed so much to our growth as musicians, as artists, as persons. They're more like mentors I think I talk about both of ourselves. They're both more like mentors than just piano teachers. And of course, everything else about the Juilliard experience, living in New York and everything that comes with that, you know, you live there. The cosmopolitan aspects of meeting everyone from all places around the world, trying food and cuisines and arts and being at Lincoln Center, the Metropolitan Opera is there, the New Ballet. It's cataclysmic in a way. There's just so much and you're bombarded from all sides at all times with information and with, you know. So it's hard to explain exactly what all of these years meant for me. But I think I wouldn't be the same if I hadn't gone there and if I hadn't met the people that I did.

So as much as there are, you know, we can't deny there are struggles too, you know, living in a tough big city is hard. New York, a place especially like New York, and it's not always the cleanest place, you know, sometimes like, oh my gosh. But then there are so many things that are amazing. As you say, there's the really community of artists and the surrounding. And also there are, let's see, stimulation, right? There's always this inspiration and stimulation everywhere. It's like endless. Yeah. So that's, that's wonderful. How about you?

Oh yeah, I have very, in a way, very similar experience and I love every minute of it at Juilliard. I really did. I saw, I know a lot of people describe Juilliard as a very competitive place negatively. And but I had a complete opposite experience. I felt being able to be in that environment, being together with extremely talented group of people, you actually learn and you better yourself because you learn from your colleagues. You learn from hearing them play. And it's just interesting. I remember as freshmen, everybody is like so careful in the piano performance class. You want to be well prepared. The second and third year, everybody gets a little relaxed. People start to stop practicing. And then the fourth year, your senior year, everyone just— the level playing just jumped a whole notch. And because of the auditions are coming up, and it was really comforting for me to see that we all improved together. Everybody sounded at a different level. So I feel in addition to what my teachers have taught me, Veda Kapur, Jun Luanto, which I'm forever grateful and in debt to them, that I learned so much from my from my colleagues and friends. And I was really lucky to have a group of very close friends, my childhood friends from Taiwan, who all entered Juilliard, 4 of us at the same year. So I had this strong bond and community of that group of friends, and we all sort of experienced everything together. So New York to me is a really special place, and I really hope to go back one day too.

Yeah.

I did live or visit.

Yeah. So right now you're in Juilliard Tianjin, right?

The Tianjin Juilliard School. Yes.

Yeah. Tianjin Juilliard School. And so are the students all from China? That's from the region or from— well, maybe not from that region only, but from the continent of Asia, China. Asia.

So we have two programs. We have the pre-college program as well as the grad program. For pre-college, it's mostly students from within China. Yeah, okay, it could be from Tianjin or Shandong, nearby province, to as far as Guangdong or Tibet. Um, oh wow, yes, we have students from Tibet. And for the grad program, I say some of them are from, from China, but a lot of them are from abroad, international students, from, from America, from Europe, from Hungary, Canada. So it's a good mix of of students.

Wow, that's very nice to know. So what's like overall culture on campus? Like, because, you know, we just talked about New York, so New York has— it's an origin, right? It's the original Juilliard. Now it's the new campus in Tianjin, and with the new people, new campus, and probably you're experiencing something different from what you've experienced?

Actually, the Tianjin Juilliard School as an institution, the way I think it has been conceived and the way it operates, is not meant to be either competitive with, you know, the Juilliard School in New York or really other, you know, maybe universities, you know, around the world. It's sort of— it has created its own community and its own culture. And the kind of programs that we have, even for the graduate program, it's chamber music and orchestral studies and collaborative piano. It all focuses on collaboration. So even within China, it is not meant to be competitive with all of the other conservatories, like Central Conservatory or Shanghai Conservatory. It's meant to be something in addition or a different path, a different experience. There's this whole system, the Fujian system here in China, where students can go to one of the conservatories around China and also be involved in schooling at the same time.

Oh, I see.

This is a different system that we have here. A pre-college program conceived in the style of pre-college programs in the United States. So it is a Saturday program. It doesn't have anything else. It's not a school Monday through Friday. Students can still go to regular school, public schools, and have professional music studies on a Saturday.

Right.

I remember reading this article. I think it was Forbes. My friend Sophie, also you guys' colleague, I'm sure she shares some articles. And then these students were flying in every weekend to study at Tianjin Juilliard. Is that how they do it?

Yeah, it's similar actually in the pre-college in New York. People from all around the States are flying, even from Canada if I remember correctly, were flying for a Saturday lesson, you know, full week of classes and then went back. The students are very committed. They're very committed to improving themselves and really learning, to education.

And I think Tianjin Juilliard School really tries to bring the essence of Western education into China. We teach in English.

Okay.

They have to learn English. They have English classes, English for musical purpose. We focus on collaboration. So all the students have to take chamber music. So it's a different concept of education, and I think it's a quite healthy one for our students.

Yeah, quite progressive in so many ways. Yeah. Although, of course, classical music training itself is traditional, but that's very exciting.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, there's a lot to be said about the Tianjin Juilliard School and the way it handles education in China. And so I think a lot of our students and our families are starting to see the merit of being enrolled in a program like this, as opposed to, let's say, the fuzhong system or the other conservatories around China. Again, it's not meant to be competitive, it's just a different path, a different experience, a different way.

And this system, this pre-college system, might not work for everybody because the kids have a very intense and packed day. Their day starts at 8:30 in the morning and often ends at 6:30 PM. And factor in the travel time, they, they are, you know, they work very hard.

And factor in on top of that, that Monday through Friday the schooling in China is Absolutely insane. They start from very early and sometimes they finish at 6, 7, 8 PM. They come back from school. That's when they practice. That's when they start practicing, a lot of our students. And then after they're done with all of this on a Friday, they start traveling either Friday night or in the dawn of Saturday just to get to school, have a full day of classes, travel back to where they come from. These students, I just can't praise them enough for their commitment and for their perseverance. Yeah.

I saw some videos of some of these students from your school, you know, and they play so beautifully. They play so professionally, you know, especially the age group that we teach here in New York, you know. I mean, it's different, you know, we don't teach students that are going to professional schools right now, but it's— sometimes I guilt my students be like, see, you can be playing like that, right? But I'm quite proud for, you know, because actually the Central Music Conservatory in Beijing also started off in Tianjin. So I went to the pre-college division in Tianjin. I'm from there, but I did not fully grew up there. You know, I actually lived in a different city for a while as well. And the, you know, music training is always— I start at 3. It's just you have to go where your teacher is, right? But I remember my friend with the she was attending in Tianjin Conservatory, and then she would— her dad is a policeman— would drive her with police car, the siren on, to Beijing to take a lesson on Sundays. So, you know, it's, uh, you guys really remind me of those years. Now we want to segue to in your performing life. Uh, we know you are such wonderful musicians and performers. I've watched a lot of your videos and your— well, first of all, Were you guys— how long have you guys been playing together as a duo? Did you become husband and wife first or did you start playing first? I assume.

Yeah, well, maybe 5, 6 years that we've been together, playing together.

Playing together.

Got it.

We were always reading stuff together, but playing 5, 6 years and we get to play more here because we have this Tianjin Juilliard Ensemble, and we often play two piano or four-hand works.

I saw even Shanghai Quartet was there recently. Was it recently?

Yeah, they're a resident quartet here.

They are actually permanently living and working at the Tianjin Juilliard School at the moment.

Everybody's moving to Tianjin. Oh my gosh.

Come visit us.

Now, how can it be that the Shanghai String Quartet is in Tianjin No one knows.

Well, you know, they won't say anything. So how is your experience? You know, I know you, uh, for June, you're also— you taught in West Virginia and also in Texas, right? And, uh, and, you know, compare that to Taiwan, obviously to New York, and what do you feel like from the audience perspective and from colleagues? I mean, I obviously— you have colleagues top-notch from all around the world. But, uh, you know, or even teaching these students that they are Chinese, right? They— most of them, uh, the private pre-college students, I assume they have not been abroad before. Do they expect you to speak any Chinese sometimes, or are they all pretty good with English?

And your experience?

Very.

Some of them are excellent in English. Some of them mean me to speak in Chinese, and I'm trying to push them to learn English. It's such a universal language, and it's good for them. So I'm hoping those who need lessons in Chinese will soon convert to completely in English. Um, but your question of how does it feel to go from higher ed to teaching in pre-college and in China, um, I think in a way it's different, but on the other hand, it's the same. It's education, you know, you're teaching kids or, or college students to play better and also at the same time to be their guide and be their mentor in a way.

So to express themselves.

Yes. And I think in terms of just purely teaching, I don't think it differs that much. I mean, teaching highly depends on how how talented the student is, no matter what age group, and how hard they're willing to work. Then of course their relationship with the teacher. So I think at any age group, um, perhaps not adults because that's a little bit late and they usually learn for fun, but any other age group, as long as they have good relationship in those three, um, areas I just mentioned, I feel they could advance very far. In the higher ed, you see more students that are interested in other things. For example, it might be music education, music therapy, music industry. So their focus is different from the kids that we are teaching right now. The kids we're teaching right now, they want to go into music professionally. So, um, I think as a teacher you have to adjust and adapt. There's no one student that's the same, and I'm learning. I always, I always feel I'm learning so much from my student how to be a better teacher and better player. Because after so many years of teaching, I still run into teaching questions and teaching problems. And you learn from it. So I'm growing as a teacher, and my students are growing as well. But I feel no matter where you teach, either privately or in an institution, in a pre-college or in conservatories, I feel it's important to show them good examples. As a person, how to behave well, how to be a good person. And I do believe to be a good musician starts being a good person. That's what I try to instill in my studio.

And I think the biggest challenge about teaching these pre-college students is to convince them to practice a little bit less and to do other things besides piano.

Yes.

Oh, my gosh.

We run into an opposite problem from what we had in the United States. Over-practicing and over, you know, singular, you know, this, there's a singular focus. And I think for a lot of the students, it will be more rewarding if they could broaden their horizons a bit and look further than their piano bench and their piano keys.

Right. But isn't that the, maybe one of the major cultural difference per se, you know? So the Chinese, I don't want to stereotype them, but there's a cultural— It's okay, stereotype them. —background of, you know, once they determine, they just go all the way sort of thing. Let's say I'm Asian, obviously. I'm from Japan originally, but I'm Korean. So, you know, we have this sort of determination. That's how we were taught as a young child. So as opposed to here in the United States, kids have more choices. You know, you can take it easy. If you are— if you really like this, then you have the choice of, you know, drive yourself and, you know, work hard. But there's a difference. And do you feel that in teaching?

Yeah, sure. Yes, sure. The ancient Greeks, I'm gonna I'm going to look back into my heritage. The ancient Greeks said, Pan Metron Ariston. That's in Greek. Basically, you have to find the right balance for things. Nothing in excess. You have to, in order to lead a healthy life, you have to find the balance between your work, your study, your friends, your family, your whatever it is. You have to strike the balance. And it's hard to find and it takes a lot of time. But I think as teachers, we have to guide the students towards finding that balance. I think there's just so many piano teachers nowadays. You know, there's so many really great artists and pianists, and more or less everybody can teach forte, piano, crescendo, diminuendo, you know, all of this technical musical jargon. But I think it's more important that you guide your students towards leading a healthy life. And that's what, that's what our teachers at Juilliard, I think, did for us.

And also without underestimating the importance of dedication. I think to excel in any field, you must work very hard and you must have passion, especially for music. So these kids, they have those already and they came in having dedication and passion. So our job is slightly different. We have to make sure they're living well-balanced. Life.

Yeah, temper, temper them.

Well, especially they have to travel so much over the weekend to come to study, right? And they stay there the whole entire day. And I, because I went to a conservatory there, so I was already viewed as an odd kid because we had sort of a college-level class, you know, set up since we were 11, which— so you can see me on the street like after 5 o'clock, we're most other students, you know, they have to study into like 10, 11. I don't know, you know, I, I don't know how these students, especially if they are already, um, you know, they are also in other, uh, middle school, high school, like general schools, right? How can they find the time to even—

yeah, and it's very hard.

And according to many, many of our students, according to many sources, uh, pre-college day is their highlight, is the highlight of their week. They love it. They don't want to go back to regular school. You know, they just want to stay there. They love watching their friends and their community in there. It's just, yeah, it's a great day. It's, you know, action-packed. But I can understand the fatigue. You know, it takes a toll on everybody's health.

And it's a great exposure for them. So, but how is a How is dealing with parents? Or do you get to deal with parents or they just drop the kids off and they go shopping?

You know, where actually parents are very dedicated too. They are there the whole day together. Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah. They, they are, I have to say most of the parents in my studio are just wonderful. Yeah. All of them were fantastic. And of course they are one or two, you know, here and there. That are a little bit harder to deal with, but that's normal. I think that's normal everywhere. But I think these, these parents, they, they, they have— I think they have a different goal for their children by sending them to the Tianjin Junior School. Um, I think they do want them to be exposed to Western culture, to Western style of teaching, potentially sending their kids abroad. And, and so I think they came in with a different mentality already. Right.

Wow, that's a different perspective. I didn't realize that. I was really thinking of just music school and, you know, because it's Juilliard, so the parents would send those kids to, you know, Tianjin Juilliard School. But yeah, there's that aspect of it too. And especially that on campus, you guys are speaking in English mainly, right? Yes. Makes sense. Makes sense.

I mean, the professionalism is there. Don't get us wrong. Definitely. Of course. Of course. We ask for excellence. We ask for, you know, super quality of playing, but we're talking about the other area that's not usually addressed in a regular school.

No, the level of the students is very, very high, and the dedication and the passion and the excitement about doing music and playing the piano is there. And everybody there, I think there is this idea that everybody wants to become a superstar. I think that's why they also work so hard. I think Lang Lang as a personality, he has been a prodigious and he has changed everything about classical music in the world and certainly in China. So he's a role model for a lot of the students, of the piano students. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that, with wanting to be a star and wanting to Nothing wrong with that, but it's not the only, it's not the only way. Yeah. And I think that's, that's important also to get across.

Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense. Um, that's something also as an educator, it's important, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, because music is not about becoming a famous person. Music is about passion. Music is lives within, within us. And so, so speaking of that, what do you think of some sort of mess. It's a completely different— I mean, it just goes off the rail a little bit. But I'm thinking, because you mentioned something about, okay, the music is for anyone to express, right? But then there's the notion of— especially I hear this among people that I sometimes deal with— then classical musicians are so like trained to become this, you know, one thing. And so are they like, are you guys even be creative? So what do you— how do you answer that?

If we can be creative?

Yeah, or are we like, are we even be creative on like using music? And I always answer, well, actually playing classical music by Chopin or Beethoven, we are actually be creative of interpreting the phrase, for example, right? Or expressing— because yes, there is the phrase that we follow, there's a marking: crescendo, diminuendo, piano, all these things, forzando. We follow. However, there is, of course, me. I am playing. I'm not a machine. So I'm not this, you know, machine where you press the button and then like a robot. But I'm a person, and then there is my interpretation. So that's my way of being expressive, and that's my way of being creative. I mean, not to erase the piano forte on the score, but what do you think of that notion?

Well, I think, um, musicians, artists in general, are inherently creative. You cannot— I cannot imagine a person that is not creative that can be a good musician. And maybe there's a lot of bad musicians that are not creative. I think anybody half decent, anybody committed, anybody with a smidge of a talent and the passion for music, I think it's impossible to say that they are not creative. I think we find creativity in all aspects of our lives. In fact, just, I mean, the industry and the job itself. Is one creative working with students. You have to be creative about how to solve problems. And I'm not even talking just about musical problems. Everybody has their own set of problems about life too. So the way you're going to handle somebody's questions and the way you're going to guide them, the way you're going to resolve technical problems on the piano, moving around the keyboard is highly— it requires top-notch coordination and reflexes. And how do you build a solid technical foundation so that you can be more creative while you perform? That in and of itself is a challenge. So I think educators— I'm going to take it a step further. I think educators in general are the most creative people that are out there because there's there's so many challenges that they have to face every day in the classroom, or, you know, with, you know, dealing with a range of students and parents and colleagues and administration in school and their own art and their own— uh, so I don't know if this answers.

Yeah, yeah, it does. Yes. Do you need to add anything, Chi-wen? Are you okay?

It's very well said. I, I absolutely agree, and I do think musicians are one of the most adaptable people to situations and to life changes. I feel they're so focused in a way, and that's where the creativity comes in. They're so focused, they're very skilled, and they're creative. So they usually are excellent in many different areas. You see many of our colleagues that went into law, went into medicine, went into cooking. They excel in all areas. And I think that's a proven fact that it's important to learn music and it's good to be a musician because you have even more options. Even if you don't want to become a pianist or performer in the future, you can do many, many things and you'll do well. You'll excel in life.

In fact, a lot of— I don't know. I don't quite think that the Pre-College here in Tianjin Juilliard School is exactly the same as the Pre-College in New York. But I would say that a lot of the students, Pre-College students in New York, they are very, very driven. And they have so many different interests. And they do everything on high level. And so it is not uncommon for some of the pre-colleges in New York to go into a different path when they graduate. A lot of the students really don't necessarily want to become professional musicians. And yet they spend all the time that we know— we know the time commitment that you need to have to do well at such a competitive field. That require so much attention. And they do it at the highest level. And that's just one of their interests. And then they become— they succeed in all these other fields. Pre-College, I would say specifically, is not necessarily about building the next generations of musicians, but it's about building the next generation of humans. Wow.

I think so. Wow. But you know, all the musical training will teach anyone to be disciplined about things and teaches you how to practice, right? Oh yeah. Yeah, practicing takes— anything, anything. Exactly. You can apply that. But you can start by doing musical training. You can start from really young about discipline and what practice does to your mind and does to your life. I think that's one of the very important lessons of playing the piano and then playing the piano to the point of really in a much higher level.

And if music is really the child's calling, wonderful, go for it.

Yeah, it's about encouraging the students to find their voice.

Wow, your students are very fortunate to have you. I mean, yeah, that's true. Sure. Then my last— my— I may ask more, but for now this would be my last one. So then right now, well, especially in the United States, I think culture is changing. And as a classical musician, I'm not sure if you agree or not, but I'm getting this sort of ideas or sort of opinions a lot because we do obviously podcasting, so we get some common Do you think we need a little bit more tools in our toolbox? 21st century musicians are required to be a little bit more than just pianists. Let's say I have my own piano studio, so somewhat I'm considered entrepreneur. I have to study a little bit about marketing or business or, you know, finance part of— I mean, anybody should learn about finance, but But what do you think of that, about this notion of, let's say, as a musician, should we have many different skills? I think it is—

what you're describing is, you know, we are musicians and we always think everything in line of music, but I think what you're describing is a 21st century problem in anything you do. If you're a dentist, you know, you still have to market yourself because there's so many other dentists out there. You know, we live in, you know, in an era where, you know, there's just so much overspecialization and everybody's educated. Everybody goes to college. Everybody has degrees. Everybody, you know, it is pretty much It's impossible to find students nowadays, graduates of, let's say, conservatories or universities that don't have at least a master's, most of them even PhD. You know, that didn't used to be the case, but now we live in this era of overspecialization. You need to have A and B and C and maybe D, and then you can start thinking about building your career and your life. And so, and so it's just very, very competitive. There's too many people, there's in all fields and it's a matter of, you know, demand and it's a matter of, you know, so, so it's, I think, is it, is it, is it maybe more for music? Does it pertain a little bit more to music? Possibly, possibly. I don't have the necessary data to say for sure. Possibly it is maybe a little bit more challenging for music. So does it, does it hurt to be invested in different things and to, to know a thing about, a thing or two about finances and business? And of course not. I think it's, it's a healthy thing to do. It's not necessary always though. Not everybody has to be an entrepreneur. You see, I, I am against the idea that it is absolutely necessary. If somebody does not want to be an entrepreneur, and just wants to play the piano and teach the piano, I think that's okay. I think that's okay. If you want to create something of your own, a festival, a podcast, a competition, great. Go ahead and do it. You live in a time where you can do this fairly comfortably and easily. But I don't think, I don't want to pass on to my students that if they don't want to do something, they have to do it in order to succeed. To get there. I'm more flexible in that way.

Yeah, and just to add, I think it has always been this case, but even more so now in the 21st century, that's important for artists to be well-rounded. It's not enough just to play the piano well. The golden age of winning one competition and you get a lifetime concert career is done already, long gone. There's so many more competitions out there, amazing players, So that forces the current musicians to think outside of the box and to equip themselves with more tools, more skills, people skills, marketing skills, business, all sorts of things that you think of that could further advance your career. I think it has become more so now in the current era, and I think that's what we're trying to instill in our our kids here at Pre-College do not just sit in the practice room for 12 hours a day. That's not how you become successful. Not now. Yeah. And maybe we go through a cycle. History always cycles itself. Maybe in 10, 20 years, the golden era of winning competition and have a career will come back. But for now, they need to think outside the box. They need to be well-rounded.

And that ties to the previous question about creativity. You have to be creative about how you're going to present yourself.

But the bottom line is you have to be excellent in what you do. You have to be an excellent player in order to be successful.

Everything is built on top of that. Yeah, it's important to strive for excellence in everything you do. And it's important that you're genuine about what you want to do and what you do, and that you wake up every day and you do the things that you want to do. You know, that's, that's what's going to make you a successful person, what you do, if you enjoy to the maximum, you know, what you do.

Well, so now I want to bring the elephant in the room. How was the pandemic, um, you know, affecting you guys? Or maybe, uh, I, I don't know how it's like, you know, in Tianjin. I, you know, I, I became American citizen right before the lockdown, so now I cannot even go back to visit my parents. And, uh, but it's, uh, you know, I, I see obviously what they are doing every day, and it seems like my mother is very involved in the, in the local community, that she is a model at 62 years old. So, you know, she does all these concerts, and my dad is very musical as well. They are not musicians, so I see it's almost like they are not even that affected until, you know, this recent time. So I want to hear from you guys, um, what was it like for you guys being, you know, foreigners in China?

And well, we moved here in September 2020, you know, it's basically right at the peak of pandemic in the States. Yeah. In a way, we felt really, really lucky to be coming to China at this time. We had lots of concerts. We were able to teach in person. So we have fairly normal musical life last year. This year, I feel due to the Olympic, that they're trying to make sure the country is in good shape. They're even more stringent this year. This year. So currently we're teaching online, and we hope after Chinese New Year it will open up again. But overall, you know, if you compare the number of cases in China with other countries, this is day and night, you know. Just recently they found 2 cases in Tianjin and they locked the whole city down. That's how effective they are. So we're really in awe with the efficiency of the government.

The mechanisms in place to ensure the health, you know, the public health. It is just— I don't think it's conceivable by a lot of the Western countries. The idea that, you know, you find a couple of cases and immediately you lock down. Well, it's not lockdown, but immediately, you know, citywide testing. Testing. We're talking about a city of 14 million people. Yeah. 14 million people, and they were all tested within a weekend. And then they were tested other 3 times. And some of them were— 8, 9 times, right? Some of them were tested from the certain districts that were in close proximity with the cases. They had 10 tests. I mean, this is inconceivable. Nobody can fathom something like this happening anywhere else. To that fast, that efficiently, and with the results. So I think it's that kind of urgency that has allowed us to live fairly normal lives during the past 2 years. We walk out and we wear our masks when, especially when you go into malls or the train station or are some public spaces, but overall you can walk out freely, you can go shopping, you can eat. It hasn't— nothing has been closed. We can travel fairly okay even within the country. You know, a lot of our colleagues travel to Sanya or, you know, some other places all around. We went to Shanghai for, you know, for your, you know, New Year's and, you know, Christmas. So it's, you know, it's— it has been normal. And we, you know, we, you know, in Greece it has been challenging. We have many cases. Pretty much not by now, all of my family has caught COVID at one time or the other. Yeah, even, even, even right now, my nephew and my, my, my sister and here my brother-in-law, they, they all had COVID. And it's impossible to avoid because it's just 10,000 cases every day, you know, new cases. But they had lockdowns, severe lockdowns for a long time, so they were very desperate to reopen the country. Well, here it's so far.

I mean, the funny thing is that I see, you know, I am sometimes, you know, I'm a little westernized, but when it comes to this, you know, situation, I kind of juggle my, you know, good thing is I work for myself and I, all of my students are online, so I don't really have to. But, you know, most of my friends up to this New Year have caught it, and, you know, luckily nobody is super, super sick. And, you know, most of us have had the 3 shots. But, you know, when I'm seeing what China is doing, where my parents, my relatives, the fans, even my 11-year-old niece, she's not even complaining, you know. It's kind of, uh, shocking to me how everybody just kind of, you know, okay, this is it, let's all go downstairs. And, you know, they were doing some testing like 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning, and it's fine. Nobody is like So that's the shocking part. I wonder, you know, is that the discipline of, you know, these people, or maybe they just cannot complain. I don't know. You know, it's something I guess we will find out years, you know, in the future.

Right. There is a willingness, I think, from the community to take care of one another in that regard. To cooperate. To cooperate willingly, not in any—

Especially in Tianjin, right? Sophie sent me quite a few videos of like all these kuai ban, you know, people are playing kuai ban to the Chinese rap music to get people tested. So, you know, as you know, Vice City is like famous for comedians, like comedies, and you know, so it's quite interesting. Well, we are getting to the last bit of the show. You know, we, we really enjoy talking with you guys, and this is just such a wonderful, uh, episode. But, you know, we have a couple more questions before we go to the fun part. And, uh, for me, I, I'm, I'm curious, like, are you guys thinking of staying in China indefinitely? Are you planning to move back anytime?

Or— we have no plans so far. Okay, we are happy here. Yeah.

As long as we're living happy lives, joyful lives here, there's no plan to go back.

But yeah, do you feel visiting this summer?

For sure. Okay, let us know.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, definitely. He's in New York. Yes, definitely come.

Definitely.

Yes, friends and family there. My brother is still there, so we'll be back.

Okay. How is it living in like Tianjin feels like? Is Do you feel comfortable in the city? Or it's been so many years for me, so I don't even really remember.

Very comfortable. And it's so advanced, the high-speed railroad and the subway system. Things are so clean. When I first came to Tianjin, I said, this is like Chicago. Chicago to me, you have the river, you have high-rise building, but still very open. So it's It's a beautiful city.

Tianjin is a very nice city. Yeah. It's not Shanghai. Right. Shanghai is my top destination in the world so far. I just, I just really love it. It's as cosmopolitan as New York. You know, I'm a fan of culinary experiences. I love going to restaurants and trying, you know, different things. And Shanghai is also top.

You know, I love Shanghai.

Shanghai. Yes, it's a great place. It's a lot of fun, but compared to New York, it's clean and quiet. No, cars are not allowed to honk. It's, it's not part of the rules. And then, you know, people, you know, that you walk in the streets and you don't see garbage or, you know, New York, you started with this, has that distinct New York smell. Which I love.

That's a true New Yorker. Well, not during the summer, though.

The summer, the New York perfume.

That's true. Especially the subway lately. That's been such a nightmare. All right, well, maybe we will end with this last question we always ask everybody, that what is your advice for young musicians.

You may have already answered some, but yeah, you have.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

But any last advice before you go?

I would say keep doing what you love and work hard, and but, you know, expand your horizon at the same time. Expand your horizons.

I think, I think that's very, very important for the students. Yeah, don't feel competitive, just do what you love.

That is really beautiful. Constantino, are you learning Chinese now? Especially, are you learning Tianjin Chinese now?

Yi Tian Tian.

Oh, Fei Shan Bao. Next time when I come back, you guys have to be my tour guide. Cool.

As a matter of fact, as soon as we're finished with the podcast, I have my Chinese lesson.

Oh, very important. Ready mentally, I'm preparing. Great. Well, we're going to end with some fun stuff so you can go into your lesson, you know, high energy.

So are we all ready?

The rapid fire question. All right, I'm going to start. What is your comfort food? Burger, pizza, both. All right, pizza, burger. Cheese. Cheese. That's kind of true, I guess.

It is true. A block of cheese.

Now you're in Tianjin, you have to have some mahuá, right? Or gǔbólíbóu, which I have never had.

Nice.

Oh, bubble tea. Zhenjun night, yeah? Oh, that's right. Oh my gosh.

All right, my question. I may already know this answer, but Cats or dogs? Cats or dogs?

Dogs. All right, I'm gonna bring Tofu.

Okay, okay, great. Yeah, yes. All right, Chivan, you can continue. What is your word or words to live by? Be happy.

Yes, and you can be happy with this.

Ah, hi Tofu! So cute.

He's 7 months old. Oh my God, baby.

Oh my gosh. Okay, I have to take some photos.

He just woke up. So cute. Yes.

Okay, so my question. All right. What is the most important quality you look for in other people? Honesty. Honesty. Sincerity.

What is the worst quality you stay away from people?

Gossiping. Bad-mouthing.

All right. Fake.

Fakeness. Dishonesty.

All right, my question. Name one composer, living or dead, whom you want to hang out at at the bar? Brahms.

Oh, Brahms. Rachmaninoff. Rachmaninoff.

Great. He was on the Upper West Side before, right?

74th Street. That's right. That's right.

Name someone who truly inspires you. There's many.

So many. So hard. I know.

Hard to choose.

I have to say my teacher, Veda Koplinsky.

Somebody. Julian Martin, my teacher in New York. You guess? I mean, all of my teachers, just— I don't want to put one, one name because it's hard. My final teacher is Julia New York.

Okay, sounds good, sounds good. All right, what is your desert island piece? Ah, oh man, name one. Okay, Brahms' Requiem.

Ah, beautiful, beautiful.

Uh, I would say Schubert E-flat Trio. Beautiful.

And name one book title in your library.

Oh, the Bible.

Great. Beautiful.

All of the Harry Potter series. We got the Harry Potter. Lord of the Rings.

We got it. The last one, last one. Are you ready? Fill in the blank: music is blank.

Peace. Music is food for soul.

Food for soul. Great answers.

Wow, who won? You guys have won.

Did I win?

Tofu won. Of course. Okay. Well, thank you so much for joining us, and that concludes this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. Thank you, Chivan and Constantinos, for joining us.

Thank you for having us. It's been a pleasure.

Your insights and expertise and more information about them, we are going to link in the description below. And I would like to remind our audience to check out their you have a double piano work in the making, right, that you guys are working on. It's called Stained Glasses. Again, we're going to list everything below. Great, fantastic.

Thank you. Thank you. And thank you to our audience and fans for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review on whatever podcasting platform you use. If you're watching us on YouTube, remember to hit the thumbs up button. Be sure to subscribe to our channel. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. The links are in the description below.

If you have feedback for us, please leave it in the comments or DM us via social media, or you can also email us at thepianopodmic@gmail.com.

We'll see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod. Thank you everyone. Thank you, Santino. Thank you, Ching-Lan. Thank you.

Oh, bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye.

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