The Piano Pod Season 2 Episode 16: Donna Weng Friedman--Award-winning pianist, Chamber Musician, Producer & Educator

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Hello everyone, welcome back to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song.

Happy May and happy Asian Pacific American Heritage Month, everyone. I am Clara Zhang.

That's right. Thank you for the reminder, Clara. As we mentioned in the previous episodes, Clara and I both became naturalized US citizens in recent years, and to be able to officially say happy Asian American Month To us, it's so awesome, right? And as we both are proud of what it was, a challenging yet rewarding journey to become Asian Americans officially, and as we also honor the beautiful heritage and culture we inherited from our predecessors.

Ah, that's beautifully said, Yukimi. Yes. So for this episode, we are interviewing Dawnna Wen Friedman, Chinese American concert pianist, chamber musician, producer, and educator from New York City.

I found quite a few common interests, qualities between Donna and us, not just our heritage alone, but she's also involved in the radio program, of course, and she's an educator, and plus she's of course a pianist, and she is a fellow New Yorker.

That is right. Yeah, I love the fact that her career and interests are not limited to performing arts, and she's also a curator of interactive classical music apps. For children called the Music Bee Club. I am super curious about them.

Yeah, me too. Oh, so by the way, for anyone listening or watching our show for the first time, welcome! We're both classical pianists and piano teachers from New York City, and this podcast is for anyone who plays the piano for fun, loves listening to piano music, or for someone who is currently pursuing a career in piano or works in the industry, professionally, or anyone who is simply curious about the world of piano music.

In each episode, we interview a guest speaker who has been breaking exciting new grounds in the music industry. Before getting started, we want to thank our listeners for tuning in. Please rate our show and review on Apple, Audible, and podcasting platforms because every rating and review will help people find our show.

Looks like our guest Donna has arrived and is waiting to begin our conversation.

Oh, great! Let's get the show started. You're listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.

We're so delighted to introduce our guest of Season 2, Episode 16, Donna Wang Friedman. Award-winning pianist, chamber musician, producer, and educator. She created the Heritage and Harmony programs, including the video series in collaboration with WQXR and the education program Heritage and Harmony: Her Art, Her Voice in collaboration with the National Women's History Museum, with the aim of promoting empathy, understanding, and tolerance among people of all all backgrounds. Ms. Friedman has performed in concert halls as a soloist with major symphony orchestras internationally and as a chamber musician, collaborated with world-renowned musicians. As a recording artist, she released an EP during pandemic named Heritage in Harmony: Silver Linings, which was recently honored with 2 silver medals at the 2022 Global Music Awards. Ms. Friedman currently serves as a faculty member at the Mannes School of Music while conducting master classes worldwide, including at the Shanghai and Beijing Conservatories. She's also the creator-developer of the Music Bee Club interactive classical music apps for children, which was produced by 19-time Grammy Award winner David Frost. So we are honored to have you, Donna. Welcome to our show. Thank you for being here.

Thank you so much for coming to our show.

Thank you so much for having me. I love your show.

Oh, thank you.

I know.

So much.

Thank you.

Thank you. And Donna, we love your radio show, by the way, and we're very inspired. So, you know, as we just talked about being a host of the radio show, we have so much actually in common, right? And we're not only fellow New Yorkers and also pianists and educators, but also I love the way that you are reaching out and to your audiences and community by way of talk show, for example, and that's very inspiring. That's exactly what we want to do through this podcasting. So, and another common denominator, I guess, to say is that Claire and I just became officially Asian American Americans. So before the pandemic. Congratulations. Yeah, yeah. So I know we, we have so many questions and That's also that. And Clara, you also have—

I mean, you are such, you know, an entrepreneur as well. And I heard about this app, I believe it's called Music Bee or—

Yeah, the Music Bee Club app. Music Bee Club is the general term, but it's there. The apps were— I created them. This is a while ago. And the first one was the Flight of the Bumblebee. The second one was The Swan. The idea was, the impetus was, back in 2008, the New York City public school system announced that they were cutting back on music classes. Wow. And art, you know, the whole impetus was for math and science. You know, and I had, you know, I have two kids who are now grown, but back then I had little kids and they were always surrounded by music. And it kind of broke my heart.

Mm-hmm.

And I thought, you know, that not all kids are going to be able to have music. So I wanted to do something, you know, to kind of bring music to them. And in the beginning, you know, I started writing these stories to short famous pieces of classical music, and the idea was to, you know, bring out and teach children how to listen to the inherent storyline of in music. So I created these stories and I was, you know, back— that was in the day, I'm so embarrassed, of the cassette, right? The cassette books.

Same, right?

2008. Wow, yeah, that's true.

I was going to, you know, make these cassette books and as it happened, one of the president of Starbucks Entertainment— Starbucks at that time had an entertainment group.

I see.

And I sent him this proposal. I showed him what I was doing, and he loved it. He said, "We are going to publish these." And then within a matter of months, they folded.

Wow.

And my husband, who is a mathematician, very much into the, you know, most— he's interested, he reads about everything technology.

Right.

He said, "You know, don't do a cassette book. You're going to end up at the bottom of the bin at Barnes Noble, right?" There's this new thing called the app.

Uh-huh.

Wow.

So I was very interested in that, but it took me a couple of years to learn about it, right? Um, so a few years down the road, um, you know, things were coming together, and I invited my, my friends. I asked them would they please, you know, record with me. So Carter Bray, the principal cellist of the New York Philharmonic, he recorded The Swan. It's the most beautiful Swan you've ever heard in your life. Liz Mann recorded Flight of the Bumblebee, and my friend David Frost, who is, by the way, I think he's either 20, up to 20 or 21 Grammys at this point.

Oh my goodness. Oh wow.

He produced it, and I have to say, they were just really beautiful apps. And my daughter at the time was just about in high school, and she's a very good artist, so she did the animation. So these were animated. And I became a door-to-door salesman. I went from one school to another. I didn't know how else to do this, you know. We didn't really have internet like we do now. I wasn't very savvy about any of that stuff.

Oh, you're already very savvy.

Yeah, I didn't even apply for grants. I mean, I paid for everything out of pocket. So I went from school to school. I went to charter schools, and it was so worth it because because just seeing how these kids, you know, how they lit up, how excited they were, and they said, how come we never hear music like this? And what was interesting to me is that I created these apps for younger kids with the idea of, you know, inspiring kids from ages 2 to 6. But when I brought it into the schools, the creative writing teachers used them to teach kids how to write short little stories.

Oh my gosh, that's amazing!

It was, it was an incredible experience until I ran out of money and I just couldn't wanted anymore.

Oh my goodness.

But I— and hopefully I'll get back to it at some point, you know, when I—

yeah, now that you— we have— we can use, you know, tablets and all the smartphones, and it would be nice, um, because it would be nice to reach out to those students who have never heard of classical music or have never had, you know, classical music training. So yeah, but it's very inspiring because We are, Clara and I are both also small business owners and we would love to hear more stories like that from you today.

So yeah, it's a true entrepreneur story. Yeah. And all the investor music lovers out there, you know, this is your opportunity.

Well, it's very funny because I never considered myself an entrepreneur.

Right.

I never think— All I do is when I hear about something that upsets me and then I, you know, want to you know, just sort of do something in my own small way to contribute. And then that's when I— that has always been my motivation. I never start out thinking, oh, you know what, I'm going to do a business, because I actually still don't feel like I have done a business. I just create programs and projects and, and, uh, you know, based on, uh, you know, of course everything is what I love the most, which is classical music, right?

Right. Yeah.

But now I'm able to communicate more because we have the internet, we have this ability to do virtual programs and reach out to a broader audience.

Yeah, exactly. And with this technology, what's amazing is that we can reach out to people who never had the access of this amazing premium sort of education, right? Because classical music could be that way or could appear that way, but it's not. And what you're doing is making all these wonderful things accessible to everyone, you know. That's, that's really amazing. Now, so we want to know where your musical journey started.

I was 6 years old and growing up with my, my family in Forest Hills, Queens, in a very traditional Chinese family, and my pet parakeet Greenspot died. And I was devastated. Now, he was my pet in the sense that I loved him, but my older brother, who is my half-brother, 9 years older than me, really took care of Greenspot. But I was devastated. I'd never had a pet. I never had a loss like that in my life. So I just couldn't stop crying. And my mother, who is very superstitious— Chinese are, you know, very very superstitious, she said, "You have to stop crying, it's bad luck." Right.

All right?

Everything is bad luck.

Like a Chinese mother.

And I tried, I tried, but I would just think about Greenspot and I'd burst into tears again. So, you know, this lasted a while, you know? So finally my parents decided to buy a spinet piano. And my brother, who, you know, older than me, started taking piano lessons. Lessons, and it wasn't his thing, you know, especially not classical music. But I love that sound, and I would tinkle on it, and he was playing Für Elise. And then one day I just got up and played it. Oh my God, you know what, maybe we should be giving her piano lessons. I started taking lessons, and within 6 months I was at Juilliard Pre-College, and I think I was the youngest student there for a while, you know.

Sure.

Yeah, so I started Juilliard when I was 7, and it was like, you know, heaven on earth for me, spending all day Saturday with other kids like me who loved music. And I had the most loving piano teacher. And, um, yeah, it was that, you know, I was at the old Juilliard at Claremont Avenue, which is now Manhattan School of Music.

Sure.

Then we moved to Lincoln Center, right? But, you know, my memories of Claremont Avenue, of that old building— oh my gosh.

And then after that, you— well, after so many years of training, and you studied at Princeton?

Yeah.

So what happened was, you know, I, I did very, very well growing up. I won every competition that I entered. I was performing everywhere. And, you know, I, I, um, I was the first winner of the New Jersey Symphony Orchestra competition. So I was touring New Jersey with the New Jersey Symphony, uh, when I was 15, 16.

And you were studying with Adele Marcus, right?

That was for master's.

Oh, okay, that was later on.

Yeah, she doesn't teach in the pre— she never taught in the pre-college. But, um, I also skipped 8th grade, so I ended up going to college a year earlier. But what I wanted to do— I mean, I, I could have gone to Juilliard. They were very, very kind. They, they, you know, when I decided to go to Princeton, they said, "You can come back anytime," you know. But I wanted to broaden my horizons. I wanted to learn more about literature, politics, history, because I thought, you know, that would make me a better artist also. But I just, you know, had this, you know, thirst for learning. And I fell in love with the Princeton campus. So I went there for 4 years. It was probably the best decision I ever made. I think for my musical career, you know, I don't think it was the same. I, you know, my friend Jimmy Lin, chunganglin, the violinist, he always teases me because he said, oh, you know, you're so lucky you went to Princeton. I said, but when I went to Princeton, you were off performing at the White House and you became a superstar. Because Jimmy and I played in the same chamber music group in Princeton.

I see.

So, you know, my trajectory you know, became a little different from a lot of my friends and colleagues who were at Juilliard Pre-College. But I enjoyed every second of it, and the connections and the people I met and what I've learned, I, you know, I hold so dearly to my heart, and I'm still very, very involved at Princeton.

That's beautiful. Yeah, I studied with Etna Golinski, you know, in her Princeton Summer Festival there, you know, it was— I spent just 2 weeks there. It was so beautiful, you know, and now I have a student that have a house there. Sometimes I go visit.

Oh, really?

That's such a refreshing place, you know.

Well, then you should stop by because I have a master class series at Princeton now.

Oh, great!

Yeah, maybe.

We have— I invite all my extraordinary colleagues and friends to give master classes to these amazing students. And then do a concert afterwards. And it's all free to the public, to the community.

Oh, wow. I definitely have my students come to those. Yeah, maybe they will come with them.

I mean, we didn't do it over the pandemic. We started up in the fall with Jenny Koh, and then Omicron hit. So, you know, the university's been very careful.

They have to be.

So hopefully in the fall we'll start up again.

Yeah.

Then you moved on to Juilliard. Getting your master's, and you studied with Adele Marcus, the famous piano teacher. Recently, we've got to interview Lowell Lieberman, who is a composer, and then you know him.

He's a good friend of mine, yeah, and I play his pieces a lot. I actually gave the New York debut and the U.S. debut of a couple of his pieces, yeah.

Wow, really? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, he was telling— we got to talk about Adele Marcus because one of the pieces he wrote was dedicated to her. So then also we talked to Jeffrey Eagle. Yeah, he was telling me about Adele Marcus. So what was the impression? What sort of legacy you carry about her?

Well, Adele Marcus, I have to say that our lessons were pretty extraordinary. My lesson was Monday evening. I was the last one of the day. And it would always start out with my playing for her and her teaching me, and, you know, she would, you know, demonstrate, you know, how, you know, many things. And I learned so much from her, but what I learned the most from was after I played, because then she would play for me for about an hour or two. And, you know, Adele, she, I think, is— it was one of the greatest pianists that ever lived, except for she had such stage fright she couldn't perform. I mean, there's that famous story that she vomited on the keyboards right before the Schumann Concerto.

Wow.

And she said, you know, that she was sick, but, you know, she had a lot of anxiety about performance. And it's sad because, you know, the world did not get to hear—

Right.

—this extraordinary artist because her sound— nobody, you know, could make a sound on the piano the way she did. And I think a lot of her students, you know, have that. You know, that's something very important to us that she, you know, even just from her playing, that we— that's what we want to hear, and so that's what we produce. So that was, you know, pretty extraordinary. And of course, you know, all her students, you know, were all pretty— back then we were very close, and we still keep in touch. Yeah, but yeah, it was a— it's a very special group of of pianists. And yeah, I know quite a few of her students.

I have a Jewish mother here. She semi-adopted me in ballet school, you know, but she is Alana Friedman. You know, she became a psychologist eventually. Also, you know, she came from Europe and lived in Forest Hill and went to study with Saldó. And yet, you know, I had her like perform a couple of concerts, the salon concerts, and sometimes I host a little concert. And I feel like after 50 years, you know, she hasn't really practiced yet. The sound is still there, you know, it's just like— and then a couple of her friends came to visit, you know, during these concerts. And I heard them play and some of them still play, some of them don't. But it's just— it's amazing to me after all these years and, you know, all they say about Adele, it's just— I don't know. It's just like I feel like, oh my God, I feel like I'm living in that moment 50 years ago. Wow. And then you went on to Europe to study with Nadia Boulanger, is that right? Yeah, in Fontainebleau.

In fact, we just did a concert at Merkin Hall celebrating the centennial anniversary, and that was a very special, special time. You know, she was already quite ill. It was when I studied with her, it was her last summer on earth, and she died the following year. But Boy, what an experience. First of all, my first lesson with her, I went into her— I was invited into her apartment and her assistant came out and said, "Mademoiselle Boulanger is not feeling well today." And I was thinking, "Oh, thank God, I'm so nervous that I get to go back," you know? She goes, "But she would like to hear you play." She will be in her bedroom listening and you will be in the living room playing. And I had never had an experience— that was nerve-wracking, you know. So I sat down and started playing and she was in the other room. And after I played the Bach Chromatic Fencing Fugue, and after a few seconds I hear this very frail voice, you know, very frail voice like shout out to me something in in French. I didn't know what do I do? Do I stop? Do I keep playing? I just didn't know what to do. I kept playing and then I hear this frail voice again, you know, straining to communicate to me. So I stopped and there was silence. So I kept playing. It was so nerve-wracking. At the end of my performance of playing that piece, the nurse's aide came out and said, you know, Mademoiselle, thanks you very much for coming today. And playing for her, but she's not feeling well, so maybe come back another time. And then all of a sudden, that same frail voice starts speaking in French to the attendant, and the attendant says, uh, I'm sorry, could you just wait one, one moment? Mademoiselle wants to see you. So she goes back in, and it seems like an eternity later, but she wheels Mademoiselle Boulanger out, and then she takes my hands, and then she starts to talking to me. And she talks about color and phrasing and then she says to me, you know, she just held my hands and she said, "I have the hands of Rubinstein." Oh! Which, you know, I doubt. I have very small hands. But anyway, but then she said to me, and my French wasn't very good and I tried, I understood her for the most part, but my speaking was not fluent. And then at the end she said to me, "Trois morceaux," which in French means "three things," "three little things." And so I thought, you know, "Oh, okay, so she's telling me to remember those three things." She talked about color, phrasing, and I forget what the other one. But anyway, so I remembered that "trois morceaux," and I left, and I, you know, I felt really good. And then the next day I received this little invitation, handwritten note inviting me to have dinner with her. And I thought, wow, that's incredible, right? And then at the last minute, she— her— I got another message canceling because she wasn't feeling well. But it wasn't until years later when I was talking to a friend and reminiscing about this time in Fontainebleau and about my experience and about Trois-Morceaux When my friend said to me, "Trois morceaux" is the name of 3 pieces that her sister Lily Boulanger wrote. She was telling you to learn them. Wow. And then I said, "Oh my gosh." So at that time we didn't have the internet. I couldn't find it. It was hard. G. Schirmer's didn't have it. But I eventually did find it and I recorded it for my WQXR program, "Her Music, Her Story." Oh my gosh. And I shared the story because we did a— You know, my co-creator and co-host Alison Charney, we did one of the episodes was called The Three B's. We reimagined the Three B's for women. And of course, one of them was Lily and Nadia Boulanger.

So you have all this amazing training and lessons from, you know, these famous people. Now, so now I want to focus more on your career as a pianist first. And so can you tell us maybe earlier years where you were touring internationally more often? And you— I, I think I heard a little bit of a story from one of the video clips I watched, but maybe if you could share some of the memorable moments or anecdotes. Yeah, well, uh, I—

yeah, I did tour quite a bit when I was younger. Um, probably the most emotional tour was when I went back to China with my, with my parents, and I performed with the Shanghai Symphony, and I gave recitals. But it was so emotional because I went back to my, my mother's hometown, I went back to my father's hometown, um, and I think, you know, When you're growing up and you hear them tell their stories and you're a kid or a teenager, you kind of like, "Yeah, right, there they go again," right? But when you actually go back and you meet their family and you see, you know, where they grew up— my mom grew up in a very wealthy family, and when You know, she fled China. My parents both left their hometowns during the Japanese occupation. And then the Cultural Revolution came and her father, my grandfather, was imprisoned. And the house that she grew up was given to 36 families. Right.

Wow. Yeah.

And that's what I saw. Mm-hmm. Wow. And also with my father, when he was imprisoned during the Japanese occupation for starting an underground Chinese school. Wow. The only reason why he was let go was because the prison guard, one of the prison guards was Japanese, was married to a Chinese woman, and their son was my father's student.

Oh my God.

So the guard came in the middle of the night and set him free, but said, "You can't come back." And that's when my father came to this country. But, you know, his school later, much later, you know, really became one of the top schools there. And so visiting that school, I will tell you, was an experience I'll never forget. Because when I walked into the elementary school, on the walls was a mural of my father's story.

Oh my gosh, I want to know about heritage and harmony because to me, I really love the combination of heritage and harmony, those two words together. So as a pianist, we're not just facing the instrument or score and moving our fingers, but it's more than that, right? Especially as the time goes on, we ask ourselves about the identity, how you are relating to the music in front of you. And so I am still finding my way too. And now that I'm American, but also I am that, let's say, product or a descendant of Japanese occupation in Korea too. So my grandparents moved and we had such a hard time in Japan, all the discrimination we had to deal with. And you know, the war is just an awful thing always. Yeah, because usually people are on both sides are innocent, right? But— Of course. Yeah, but somehow just war happens and the aftermath is just chaos and it takes so many generations to get over that or will never. Yeah, we don't know. But so think of Heritage and Harmony. I really love the combination. So can you tell us more about Heritage and Harmony? I know you, you have different projects according to Heritage and Harmony, but just in general, what's your idea? What's— what, where, where did you come up about with this Heritage and Harmony combination?

Well, What happened was, right in the very beginning when the coronavirus— word about that started spreading from Wuhan, China. I was— it was a wonderful, beautiful, you know, March afternoon, 1 PM, middle of the day. I was walking my dog in Central Park when a very large man comes running rushing towards me and starts screaming in my—

oh my gosh—

every anti-Asian slur he could think of. I mean, it was just awful. And then he said, and he screamed, "Go back to China or get what you deserve." And he was so close to me, and I'm very petite, I'm 4'1", you know, and he was huge. I thought he was going to hurt me or push me or something, but luckily people were walking around. Sure. And he ran off into the park, and I ran back home with my dog, and I literally did not leave my apartment for 7 months after that. Yeah. This is before, you know, the sheltering, you know, at home started.

This is like January of 2020-ish? It was early March. Already March.

Yes, yes, yes, I remember that. So, you know, my husband said, you really have to go outside. So he got me pepper spray. I said, I can't use pepper spray, that can be used against me, right? And then my husband said, well, why don't you just walk with me? And you know, if I were thinking rationally at that time, I would have said, yeah, that makes sense. But the truth is, is that I didn't want to be seen because I didn't I didn't want to be blamed. I realized that people who didn't know who we were, who we are as Asians, Asian Americans, they blamed everybody who looked like us for the virus. And so I stayed home and I listened to a lot of music and I did a lot of thinking. And it's interesting that that horrible incident actually made me more aware of my Chinese heritage and my Chinese identity. It got me so much closer, and I was thinking about my parents and what they gave up to come to this country. Yeah. To give me, you know, my life filled with opportunity. Yeah. And I started reading and watching TED Talks, and I came across this amazing TED Talk by author Chimamanda Adichie. She said that, you know, the problem with, you know, the single story is that it's one-sided. And that creates bias and it creates prejudice. She said that we need to all share stories. So that we don't have that racism. And that's when it hit me. I said, you know what, I want to do something through my music. Yeah. And share the stories of Asian American classical musicians so that maybe people will get to know who we are. Yeah, right. So, uh, and that's how I created the first Heritage and Harmony virtual concert series with WQXR, you know, sharing the stories and the music of leading classical music musicians of Asian descent. And that was— so that was the, the first thing that I, I created, right, on for that. And then, you know, it was a long 2 years, right? A lot happened during those years. Yes. And so I started thinking so much about how lucky I was, as you know, to have had great teachers and great role models. And I was thinking how so many children are not as lucky and they don't have role models. How are they going to know that they can be a great clarinetist if they never hear, you know, Anthony McGill? How are they going to know that they can be anything they want to be if they don't have the opportunity to hear somebody who looks like them, especially for girls. And that's when I created, um, Heritage in Harmony: Her Art, Her Voice in collaboration with the National Women's History Museum. And this is basically a program of role models of outstanding women, uh, trailblazers in all of the arts, not just classical music. So Misty Copeland, prima ballerina, her story is remarkable. Yes. You know, so it's from fashion design to Broadway stars, the star Crystal Joy Brown, she is the lead in Hamilton on Broadway now. All these extraordinary women were so excited to do this because they wanted, you know, they believed in the same, you know, vision that I had.

And then you have this Heritage and Harmony Live in Concert, which is coming— today is May 11th, so it's coming up in a few days. And unfortunately, by the time we air this episode, it's over. But it takes place at Tenri Institute this weekend. So can you tell us a little bit more? Because it sounds very interesting. You are part of the concert, but it's not just a musical concert. Sounds like you have this storytelling to dance as well.

So yeah, so this is my celebration, my party, and it really takes a little bit from each of my programs, including my EP, pandemic EP, "Heritage and Harmony: Silver Linings." And what it celebrates is bringing people together through stories, music, and dance. And I'm, you know, very, very grateful to the artists who are featured on Sunday. They are extraordinary. Soprano Marsha Thompson, cellist Soobae, who was featured in the original WQXR Heritage and Harmony, and what she's going to bring on Sunday is jaw-dropping because she created an arrangement of Arirang, the Korean— Oh, all right. Arirang, yeah. For 12 cellos, and she performs all of it. And it's— she's going to do it on Sunday. And also the extraordinary dancer Hannah Ginsberg-Tirash will dance two world premieres choreographed by Ariel Grossman. The first one is to the music of my dear friend Stefania Dechenesi, who wrote an album called Mikrovids during the pandemic. And so three of the excerpts from that album Hannah is going to dance to. And then the second dance is to one of Well, this is very emotional for me because it is a dance called "Never Fade Away," and it is part of my father's story. And yeah, so it is going to be a wonderful celebration, and 3 of the composers whose music I'll be performing will be there: Kim Sherman, Stephanie DeKennessy, and Beate Moon. Xinuyang is in California. So he's not able to come. But, you know, so yeah, so I'm really looking forward to this Sunday's program.

Wow, wonderful. And can you, if you don't mind, can you tell us a little bit about your father's story? I know both of your parents are the ones who immigrated to the United States first, before you were born, right? Yes.

And separately, they met here. I see.

Okay, but can you tell us about your father's story a little bit? Yeah, so my father grew up—

was born and raised in Ningbo, which is a south, you know, a seaport, you know, uh, south.

Okay, got it. Yeah, he was the oldest of 13 children.

Oh wow. Only 5 survived childhood. When he was born, his parents— his parents were so poor, they didn't have a hospital or midwife. He was born with the umbilical cord tied around his neck, a blue baby, but they didn't know what that was, so they threw him in the garbage can.

Oh my gosh.

That's how they did it back then. But luckily, you know, in the middle of the night, he started screaming. He cried, and they got him out, and he showed them from the that day that he was born, that he was a fighter. But he's amazing. So, you know, he grew up so poor, you know, he had to make shoes, cardboard shoes, and he had to walk miles to go to school, but he wanted to learn so badly. He never had any toys, so he carved out of wood a yo-yo. And that was the only thing he had as a toy growing up. So he became so good at it, he became the national champ. Oh my God, I've heard of a yo-yo competition when you get good at something, but he was a brilliant man. Um, when he was in his school, it was the first time that he heard a piano. A music teacher played something on, uh, this, you know, rinky-dink little upright piano, and it was to him the most glorious music he'd ever heard. So he walked home, and he walked home back and forth. It took 2 hours. You know, he walked home and he got another piece of wood. I guess he was doing a lot of woodworking. He carved out what he remembered the keyboard to look like, and he would close his eyes and pretend to play. Wow. The incredible thing is, is that my father never had any training in music. He had perfect pitch. He didn't know it until I started taking lessons, and he could play basically anything that he heard on the piano.

My dad has perfect pitch too, and he's still not trained, so he sings, you know. And he can play any instrument—

violin, flute, clarinet— he can just do it, you know. Just an incredible, incredible man.

Wow, wow, that's really— you made me really emotional here. And so So then to me, that heritage and harmony means so much, that combination, because heritage you inherited from your ancestors, especially from your parents, and how they gave up so much to bring you such opportunities. And, and plus you also embrace your heritage, right? So that's where to me harmony comes in. Not just to harmonize with your audience, but harmonize with yourself, come to terms with— because as a classical musician, we have this such high anticipation or expectations about our career, right? And we forget who we are. It's all about achieving, going to this school, learning, studying with this teacher, giving concerts at this concert halls and this international fame and everything, but in the end, it's really carrying yourself, all these, you know, paths from the past and present and the future itself, and just bring it together and present yourself on the concert stage. I think that's all what it's all about. But I think with that words heritage and harmony, it represents that, and that's really amazing. And what you described just now really brings me to tears almost.

Well, you know, I have to hold myself. On Sunday's concert, each of the artists will share their stories, you know, a little bit about them. And the dance "Never Fade Away" is part— is really another part of the story. If you don't mind, I'd like to share that. That's my father's story that— Absolutely. —means the most to me. But when I was 12 or 13, I was learning the Chopin Waltz in C-sharp minor, and it was a beautiful summer evening at 6 PM. My mom was in the kitchen making dinner. I was playing this Chopin Waltz. My father came home from work, and he came home and he stood there listening for a few seconds, and he races into the kitchen, and out from the kitchen my parents come out waltzing. And dancing and dancing. And I was playing this waltz and the room was filled with joy and love and I didn't want it to end. But I finished playing the waltz and my dad looked at me with tears in his eyes. I get so emotional. Sorry. It's okay.

Take your time.

And he told me his story that when he first came to this country he had nothing. And he got a job, a very lousy job, long hours, very little pay. And he found a little dark room in the basement where he'd come home at night and sleep. Every day he had one meal, and that was peanut butter and rice. That's all he could afford. And soon he got very depressed. He had no friends and no family. Mm. But after several months of saving his pennies, he bought himself a very special gift, a radio. And that changed his life because every night he'd come home and enter a world of glorious music. Wow. And one of the first pieces he heard was that waltz. And he told me when he came home that day and he heard his daughter playing that waltz, he knew that all his hopes and dreams had come true. Wow. And that's what, you know, we will perform Sunday, the dance. With the wonderful dancers Hannah Ginsberg Tarasch and Jesse Obremsky. They will reenact my parents.

Well, I'm coming to the concert. I hope we can.

Yeah, I am too. Thank you so much for sharing such a personal story. It means so much to us. And yeah, so music is really all about that, right? How you are in touch with yourself and bring that to the audience. So now I want to kind of shift gears more toward you as an educator. And so I know you are a teacher at the Mannes School of Music right now, currently, and also you give lectures and master classes at Princeton as well.

I have a master class series which I curate at Princeton. And I invite all these, you know, world-class musicians to come and give master classes to the students.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then, so first question would be, what do you see in students these days in this new generation with all the tech gears? What do you see in students?

Well, I teach in the preparatory division, the prep division at Mannes, so I teach the younger kids, the younger ones, through high school. And, you know, Mannes is a very special community. I love teaching there. I've been teaching there since 1989. Oh! It's like a family.

You must know my teacher, Hugo Goldenschwick. Of course I know Hugo. He lives across the street from me. Of course, yeah.

I think that the faculty is extraordinary and the families who come there are just wonderful. You know, it's— It kind of reminds me of when I was up at Juilliard in the pre-college at Claremont Avenue, that kind of feel, you know? So my students are amazing because they understand what it is that I'm trying to teach. I'm not trying to make them into automatons and robots and with the best incredible, you know, the fastest passages in the world. I teach them what I did as a kid and what I continue to do is I tell stories through music and I ask my students to tell me the story that they're trying to tell me through their music. Especially the little ones, I start from when they're very young. I say, "What does this piece— what is the story you want to tell me?" And they love that and it definitely shows in their playing. So, it's very gratifying, and I really enjoy.

Wonderful. Your students are very fortunate to have you as a teacher. I wish I had a teacher like you when I was growing up. But, so then, you know, we've interviewed so many different artists, and some would say, oh, you know, music education, piano education has changed since my time, and— or it used to be more you were able to just focus on music, you know, especially at the conservatory level where you can just focus on, devote yourself into practice, and you can also, you know, while studying, you can give concerts, you know, somewhere else. But these days you are required to learn this literature and this, the other subjects, although you are at the conservatory. What do you think of that? What do you think of being at musician or pianist of this new generation, or 21st century for that matter? Oh, I think it's very exciting.

To me, as long as you keep learning and have an open mind, I think education is not limited to schools. Education is life, and you can go to the top schools and come out not really knowing what you need to know in life. I think these days there's so much opportunity in every kind of school, even online education, and it is really what you make of it and how open-minded you are. I think to me that is the most important thing, is that you don't learn because you have to or you feel like you need to achieve this in order to get to that, you know what I mean? These are not the goals that I, you know, have ever aspired to do. I mean, it's always been something, you know, of a bigger picture, a bigger out, you know, a broader outlook. And so, you know, I kind of like to encourage and support my students into thinking a little bit out of the box. Going to school, of course, is wonderful. Education is important. Technology is great. But being true to yourself and being open-minded and, you know, I think those things are as valuable, you know, a part of education as anything else.

As an educator, we also want to bring them more pieces written by different composers, not just our regular go-to composers. So, and especially contemporary living composers, female, or, you know, composers of color, for example. That would be really exciting, right? So then I know you have this pieces by Kim Sherman, Unfathomable Things. It's 15 pieces for solo piano for your students. I think you asked her to compose for your students.

Can you tell us? Yeah, so there are 4— out of the 15, there were 4 pieces that were commissioned with the idea of having Kim work with 2 of my students, 2 girls who were in high school at the time. Because I wanted them, first of all, to have that experience. I think that new music has been kind of given like a bad rap, and I think people think it's just this, you know, outrageously weird music. You know, people just shy away from it because they think it's going to be without melody, without harmony, and that's just so far from the truth. And then I also started thinking that for, you know, the younger kids, there really isn't a lot of new music there.

There's a gap there. So I talked to Kim about this. She thought this would be a great idea. So the 4 pieces called, you know, part of the section is called Four Moods, were commissioned by 2 of my families for 2 of my students. And Kim would come into the lessons and talk about the music that they wanted to create together. She wanted to learn about them, what they enjoyed, what their thoughts were, what kind of music they wanted to play. And that's how those 4 pieces came to be. And then it became part of the rest of the album, Unfathomable Things, which, you know, I recorded. And I'll be performing one set of this folio on Sunday, the quiet poems, which was featured with a video that we created that, you know, on I Care If You Listen.

I just feel like you have such a way of bringing classical music to this contemporary world that we live in. How do you, like, you know, or as a, I guess, as educators, how do you think we should keep this tradition going? Like, what do we need to do? And also just for the younger generation of musicians, teachers, even students, what do you think we should keep on doing to keep this tradition?

You know, as I said, I follow my heart, and I just love classical music. I love music from every age, every era, and I've always, ever since I started playing the piano really at Juilliard, I've always played and performed pieces that most people did not play, not in the regular repertoire. I have my teachers to thank for that. Right. I think that's how you learn. And I've always wondered, you know, the piano repertoire is so huge. Why are we listening to the same pieces at every concert? Over and over again, the same pieces. Of course, I love the standard repertoire. Sure. But, you know, I think it's important to, you know, to introduce our students, you know, at a young age to composers who are, you know, not perhaps played, you know, on a regular basis but should. You know, for instance, like Cécile Chaminade. Cécile Chaminade's music, the piano pieces are just charming. Beautiful, beautiful, but nobody heard of her. They don't know her story, and that's one of the reasons why we created Her Music, Her Story is to share the music and stories of overlooked women composers. You know, everybody naturally goes to Clara Schumann for, you know, as the female representative, and her music is great, and I'm really happy that people, you know, celebrate her music. It's wonderful, but there's just so much more, you know, and if the teachers take the time to look for repertoire, you know, by underrepresented composers, they will find a wealth out there. Right. This also becomes— you become a role model. So, you know, your students do that for their students, and that's how things grow. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, actually, I got my name— I mean, I officially changed my name on my passport to Clara. You know, it was when I first came to this country when I was 17 by myself, and I came here to perform, met the Chinese teacher, and she offered me a scholarship. Scholarship, and when I moved to Kansas and I didn't speak English, so, and then we couldn't even figure out if people are calling our names, my best friend and I. And so she was like suggesting to me and my friend, why don't you each choose a name? So I became Clara from Clara Schumann, she became Nadia from Nadia Boulanger. And, uh, you know, we've been, um, and I, I do think that we still carry this, uh, heritage, you know, from like that's passed down to us. And because of our teacher gave this like And then we were, you know, she got her master's, I mean doctorate from in Arizona. And I really do feel like sometimes even just that tiny bit and you become so curious and you, so yeah, educators.

Right. And then I didn't get to talk about this, but you have this radio show of her music, her story on WQXR, and I got to listen to a few episodes of it. And you feature one composer. I got to listen to Clara Schumann and Chaminade also, and it's really nice how you're introducing their music to the audience. Can you tell us a little bit about it?

Well, you know, we have the— it's a mini—

it was a mini series in 2019 before the pandemic. And so the 4 episodes, the one was The Extraordinary Life of Clara Schumann, the second one was 3 Bees, which is our, you know, reimagined 3 Bees. Then the Cécile Chamounat, her story. And then the fourth one was Women of Today, and that features Jennifer Higdon and, you know, some wonderful contemporary female composers. And the idea is to share their stories as well as their music. So, you know, so that's, that's something that I think is important. Again, storytelling to me is very important in creating a human connection, especially with new music. I think, you know, we want to get rid of that barrier, that fear of new music, and the best way to do it is by sharing stories, you know, to let them know, right, about, you know, we're all people and And composers today, you know, could be the Beethovens of tomorrow. Oh, for sure. Beethoven's music wasn't always, you know, cheered when it first came out, right? Róleco, when it first came out, Berlioz said it was, you know, whimsical, right? I think it was Verdi's La Traviata was booed. Because there was another previous La Traviata which no one hears anymore. But people are— what they're used to is what they want. Sure. Something new they don't like. So I just, I just, I want the audiences to understand that new music, you know, all music was new once.

That's beautiful. And you are also a board member on Channel 13, right? And that's also helps educate the broader audience, I feel like. Is that a program? They also have the same programs that you produced from other— are they collaboration or?

No. So I'm on the Friends advocacy board. So we help. So for instance, when in 2020, I don't know if you saw PBS's documentary, you know, Asian Americans.

I heard of it. I don't have TV unfortunately anymore, but it's incredible.

So when that came out, I helped with the other members, the executive director of the board. We created a website to share the stories of Asian Americans in the New York, New Jersey area and to go with that. And yeah, and so, and they— I also shared my story. And they actually— it's very funny because they use a snippet of this, my interview, the story that I shared on PBS on quite a few occasions. So I would get people calling me or saying, oh, I just saw you on PBS. For a while they were doing it like every 2 weeks for a year, something like that. But Yeah, so we do things like that. We, we try to support, uh, communities.

Yeah, you're such a, a storyteller. I mean, you made me teary, almost cried during the show today, and, um, such a wonderful story you shared, and, uh, appreciate that. Now I know this is just a little uncomfortable maybe to talk about, but maybe important announcement to all the musicians and especially uprising young musicians. So you had an unfortunate injury on your wrist, so can you tell us about that?

Well, it's not actually my wrist, it was my elbow. Okay, nerve on my elbow. So I— for— I'm still wearing this. Here's my elbow brace. I wore this for 2 weeks straight, and then now I wear this at night when I go to sleep. So what happened was at the end of March I felt a searing pain in my elbow, searing, like nothing I've ever felt. Have you ever hit your funny bone there? Yeah. Like that, but never stopping. Oh my God. Oh my gosh. And then the scariest thing happened. I lost the feeling in 3 of my fingers.

Oh my God.

Oh, this was at the end of March, and I had all these concerts in May and I canceled a couple of events in April and I was, I was really quite freaking out. I had MRIs done, everything. I went to see a hand surgeon, a neurologist, and they all said, yes, this is from the nerve in the elbow. It leads, it's the ulnar nerve and it leads directly to the 3 fingers. And if you don't catch it quickly enough, you could learn a lot of muscle you could lose a lot of muscle and nerve damage. So I immediately started doing occupational therapy, physical therapy, nonstop, wearing braces and stuff like that. I have my 2-pound weight here. I have my finger strengthening exercises, my squeezy things. So I do all of this. I go to therapy 4 times a week and I do this 7 times a day. Oh my God. And because I was not going to, you know, lose the ability to play. Sure. And thankfully, you know, on May 2nd was my first concert since the injury. And, you know, I'm fine. Everything is fine. But this is the important news. I didn't fall. The injury came from 2 years of the pandemic being in front of my laptop, leaning on my elbow. Oh my goodness. And my doctor told me that he has treated so many people for similar things and carpal tunnel, which is why I'm wearing the wrist thing when I'm near the computer, because I want to make sure I give it support. And I also have a cushion now that I lean my arm on and not the elbow. So this is my cautionary tale, and not just pianists, to everybody. Yeah, sit there leaning on your elbow because this nerve is so fragile.

Wow, that is— oh my God, I, I thought it was coming from piano, you know.

I thought maybe I've never injured myself a day in my life from piano, probably because I don't practice that much. But this is all from being— because I spent so much time during the pandemic doing all my programs, everything is, you know, writing, writing. I write more than I practice. Yeah, so, um, you know, that's the cautionary tale.

Oh my gosh, well, that's actually a perfect spot for us to ask our traditional question, the last question of our show. What is your advice for young musicians or upcoming, you know, or even teachers, or, you know, musicians that are teaching, living Working a lot, too much sometimes.

Yeah, well, I think having a balance in life is really important. I think just because we're musicians, we need to be outside in the sunlight, we need to be healthy, and we need to experience life. That's, that's what I think is the most important thing. If you're a composer, you need to know literature, read, experience. If you're a performer, you need to know about people, you need to understand you know, human connections, because that's what music is about, is making human connections, you know. So the more you're exposed to art, literature, I think that's, that's part of an education process that I think a lot of people who think, oh, you just go to conservatory and play, that's not going to make you a great musician. You'll be a very good, you know, you know, at your instrument, or you could also, if you overdo it, if you don't do it correctly, you can have injuries, right? You know, and that's something you really want to stay away from. So I think having a real balance in life, you know, and of course I always tell my students that, you know, if you want to follow a path of music, you really have to not be able to live without it because it's hard. It is. Yes, absolutely. I can't imagine my life without music. That's just the way it is. I just can't. It wasn't always that way. I quit many, many times in between. I was an agent booking rock bands. I sold real estate. I questioned myself a lot, and I think questioning yourself is good. I think a lot of the questioning came from the fact that I performed so much as a kid that I needed to find out for myself what I wanted, right? I needed to create my own path. Don't do anything just because people say you should, but you have to come to it on your own, and it has to be something so genuine, and then, and just go for it. Wow.

Oh, that's so beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Yes, thank you for all the wonderful conversation. Now, before we go, so I know in May On May 26th at Green Space at WQXR, you're having this wonderful concert to celebrate Asian Pacific American Month.

What I know about it is that I'll be one of the featured guests. It should be a wonderful celebration, a wonderful, wonderful celebration. And I really am looking forward to it. And it will be livestreamed.

Oh, livestreamed also. Great. So all the information will be posted in the description section. So you can, for those who are watching, listening, can just click and then get some information. Now let's move on to our fun segment of Piano Pod with the TPP rapid-fire questions. Uh-oh. So Donna, we would love for you to answer them the shortest answers as possible. I know it's tempting to go longer to explain, but you don't have to explain. Just— we don't judge you, so give us the shortest answers possible. All right, I'm gonna go first.

Yep, go ahead.

What is your comfort food?

I would have to say dumplings.

Yum.

Cats or dogs? Well, we have a dog.

What is your word or words to live by? Follow your heart.

What is the most important quality you look for in other people? Kindness.

What is the worst quality in people you want to stay away from?

Um, that's tough. It's tough. Envy, anger, you know, racism. Yes, yes, absolutely.

Name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead.

The great pianist Radu Lupu, who just recently passed away. I was going to ask, yes. My first piano teacher at the Juilliard School, Mrs. Jean Rose, and my parents. Oh, wonderful.

Name one piece in your current playlist. Only one? Yes, just one pops into your head.

"Space Between the Fish and the Moon" by Chin-Ryung.

Hmm, I need to check it out. Yes. Name one book title in your library.

Gone with the Wind.

Great, great. You get only one song or piece to listen for the rest of your life. What is it?

Well, it's Bach. It's definitely Bach. Uh, which Bach? I don't know.

Uh, Bach is good enough. Yes.

And last question, last not least: music is fill in the blank.

What is music? Life.

Ding ding ding ding ding! Yay! You won!

You're the winner. Great, thank you, Donna. For a wonderful conversation today, and I really appreciate you for being here and sharing your stories and insights and expertise. And you, and you can, for audience, you can find more information about Donna on her social media accounts. And we want to encourage our audience to listen to her EP Heritage and Harmony: Silver Linings, available on music streaming services, as well as her radio show, her music, her story on WQXR. If you are in the New York City metropolitan area, Donna is performing on May 26th at Green Space at WQXR, Asian Pacific American Month to celebrate, and which is open to public. It will be live streamed. All the links are listed in the description.

Thank you to our wonderful audience and fans for tuning in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review on whatever podcasting platform you use. If you are watching us on YouTube, remember to hit the thumbs up button and be sure to subscribe to our channel.

You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. The links are in the description below.

We'll see you next episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Donna.

Bye-bye, everyone. Bye, everyone. Thank you, Donna. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you so much.

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