The Piano Pod, Season 2, Episode 3, Part 2: Josh Massicot - Keyboardist, Author, Songwriter, and Educator

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You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.

Last time we spoke to pianist Josh Massico about the current state of classical music and how music education should be modernized. And now, the conclusion.

I don't think the world needs another professional musician. I think we already have a lot of those, right? Um, I'm interested in making, uh, a, uh, and this sounds so stupid and idealistic, but like, I think being a musical person and being a musician, um, we've compartmentalized it in a way that's really unhealthy in our society, the way we've compartmentalized so many other things, right? Like, no one knows how to cook a meal without a recipe. No one knows how to fix a broken pipe. We just call someone to do that, right? So I don't have to learn how to make music. Like, making music is something we have done fundamentally before we had the ability to speak, right? And in our first moments on this earth, it's something that connects us to other human beings. And oftentimes in our last moments on earth, it's something that connects us. It's deeply elemental to who we are as people. And again, I know that seems so, like, highfalutin, but it's not, right? So in the context of that understanding, I don't really give a shit if they're serious classical pianists, you know what I mean? Like, if they are, and I have students who are as middle school students and high school students, like, great, I know how to do that, and I'm really into developing that skill. But if they want to play good music and they have you know, 2 hours a week to devote to practicing. I mean, I have weeks where that's what I have to devote to practicing, and I'm like a crazy practicer. Like, I love— like, if you leave me alone, I will just do that all the time, you know. Um, but I can't always because life, right? And so, um, I— again, I'm, I'm interested in cultivating, um, my students' ability to not just to consume but to communicate as musicians, and I take that word really seriously. I think it's a word that we throw around, right? Like, I'm a musician. I'm like, what does it mean to be a musician, right? And that kind of gets back to the conversation that we were having also about, you know, academically, what does it mean to have musical training, to get a degree as a musician, to get credentialed as a musician? And yeah, I would argue that I don't have the answers, but I look at models, right? So there are classical musicians and jazz musicians and pop musicians and blues musicians that I, you know, have emulated when I was a kid and that I aspire to sound like. I mean, that's what you do, right? You listen to Glenn Gould and you go, how the hell is he doing that?

Right?

Like, how is he making a sound that is so completely him? And doesn't sound like anyone else, right? What are his tricks? What's happening in his brain? You know, it's not genius. He's making decisions. You know, I hate that word genius or talent. Those are words that just like, oh God, you know, like, like every time we have a— me and people are at a concert and people are like, oh, our music faculty is so talented. I'm like, no, we're not. We work hard at this. You know, we don't talk about your talented, you know, biology professors. It's It's a completely ridiculous word. So yeah, I remember listening to, you know, I had the Preludes and Fugues, Glenn Gould, one of the records, or two of the records that my family had. I remember listening to that. And, you know, I learned, I don't know, probably half a dozen of those preludes as a kid by just listening to Glenn Gould, you know? And like, what an amazing model of musicianship to listen to. So the long-winded point I was gonna make is, When I look at those people, or I look at composers, you know, like I just adore Chopin, you know, I completely adore Poulenc and Ravel. And these are all musicians that prioritized the same set of skills that B.B. King prioritizes, the same set of skills that Bill Evans prioritizes, right? They prioritizing creating a truly unique and individualized sound, right? As an instrumentalist, as a singer, as a composer. They work hard to do that, and they learn how to do that by emulating the sounds of others. So those are things that all of those people did. And I feel like we've gotten really far away from that. You know, we've—

we've—

my— one of my jazz colleagues calls it bigger, louder, faster, right? Like at some point, classical musicians decided that bigger, louder, faster is the way they wanted to go. Right? I can play this piece bigger, louder, and faster than you. But, you know, like, do you actually have something really unique and new to say about it? You know, why are you playing a cadenza that's 200 years old? You know, like, there are all of these things that are happening, and we're like, no one's sort of fundamentally asking the question of like, well, Why have we gotten so far away from that? I mean, that's why I always call myself a classical music hack, not because I can't hang technically with my peers, but that like, well, yeah, but when I improvise a cadenza, it sounds like, so like I have to work at it, right? Like I've done that before. I've written out a cadenza and like, but I have to sit there and like do my homework and work at it and emulate it and develop it. I have people I went to school with who do that for a living, right? Like, they go, uh, on a forte piano and with the symphony, and they play a Mozart concerto, and they stand up in all the tutus and they conduct it, and then they sit down and improvise the cadenza, and they do that like every night in a different city. I'm like, that's a musician, man. Like, that's someone I want to sound like. That's someone I want to be around. And that drive, I think, to gravitate towards that excellence no matter what your genre, no matter what your passion. And also to see like, how do you not listen to Bill Evans at Town Hall and be like, just moved to complete tears about what he's doing at his instrument, to hear the simplest idea. I mean, if you've ever tried to sit down with your left hand and play Bill Evans voicings, like you'll just, you'll sob. It's ridiculous. He has a complete tonal language that's all his own, that is completely a lineage from Debussy and Ravel to Bill Evans, right? And why aren't classical musicians learning Bill Evans transcriptions? Makes you objectively a better pianist, you know? So there are these things where I think that's kind of where the fire needs to go. And I have faith that if, like, if that's what we're chasing, right? Like, if we're chasing Here are people who are just, sorry, here are people who are great at what they do. They are undeniable communicators and they have a mastery and an ownership and they have something to say. And what can we learn from them? And if everything radiates from that, as a musician, then I think that takes you to places where you, you have endless possibility, right? Um, but if you shut all that out and say, if only I can get my fingers to move faster, or if only I can, uh, you know, play this, uh, you know, at a certain BPM, or if only I can execute this passage flawlessly every time instead of 96% of the time, or, you know, if only I can, you know, play, you know, this concerti that I've been learning for 8 months, right? Like, it's that, I think that is, you know, that's kind of like the warrior athlete thing. It's piano gymnastics, it's not being a musician. And it's impressive, like, it undeniably produces a product that does impress a certain kind of person, and does create an experience. But I think that experience is devoid of often of human connection, of sort of the basic elements of what it means to communicate, not only as a musician, but just as like a person living in the world. Sorry, I'm getting like really deep.

No, but you know, honestly, we all are aware of that in a certain level as musicians, as classical musicians, even as listeners. But somehow we are in denial to. We totally ignore the part and then still have this traditional approach to music education, music lessons. And so, yeah, it's very interesting to hear. So you are also a very devoted teacher, and I'm sure your students feel fortunate to have you as a teacher. So—

not always.

Okay.

But so what Do you have any advice to young generations of musicians and music students?

Yeah, well, I mean, you were like right on saying the thing that I was going to say, which is like when conversations are great, right? They're like improvised banter. But yeah, and that's like, what an opportunity. I think one of the things that terrifies classical musicians or musicians that have that have had the rigorous training, like, well, where do I start? You know, like, if I want to learn by ear, if I want to learn how to improvise, or I want to— like, what do I do? And like, teaching is such a great toolbox, right? Like, it's such a great way to try that out, right? Like, okay, so I'm not going to play the Faber duet in Book 1 for the 79th time.

Right?

What if I play something else? Like, what's the worst that's gonna happen? There's a 7-year-old kid, they're worried about like, is their hand in the right place? Like, uh, am I counting my half notes as long as I should, right? Like, they do not care what you're playing. So like, that's an opportunity that you can just experiment, right? Like, or okay, yeah, I mean, it's like, I, I know there are certain types of, of, um, you know, more traditional teachers who like get upset when their students pick up other instruments or get upset when their students play in jazz band, right? Like, oh cool, okay, maybe you don't really know about improvising, but okay, here's this 5th grader who just started their first year in jazz band and their teacher gave them a chart that has tenths in it. Like, what do we do? You know, like, how do we make that work? Or there are 4 bars where there are just slashes on it and the student doesn't know what to do. I don't know, like, let's maybe look at the rhythms that are happening in the trumpet part and copy them on a shape that they already know, you know. So those are like just, those are great simple ways to do that and they're very low stress. But I, you know, I think the other, the other sort of answer to that too is, you know, I again, like I always am striving to be a better musician. It's not something that like I want to happen, it's something I will to happen, you know. So yeah, I work on, on new classical music and literature and expanding my horizons there, but like I work on improvising. You know, most of my playing at home sucks. It sounds bad, right? Like I'm intentionally taking the solo to a place that I know is gonna end in a fricking train wreck, but like I have to go there, right? I have to see what happens. And sometimes cool things happen on your way to the morgue, right? Like you kind of find something that's interesting and then you can kind of go back and develop that. And that's a process that's completely analogous to, to being a classical musician, right? Like you're working on a passage and we've all had that thing where like you play the passage 27 times and it still sounds like trash and you don't know why and you get frustrated at it. And what do you do? Like, okay, you start in a different place and you're like, oh, I can play it from here just fine. Oh, okay, well, why is that happening? I'm like, oh, like if I rotate my hand just a little bit, then like suddenly I can reach that a different angle and then it makes my returning angle like way more effective. And oh wait, oh cool, now I can magically play that, right? And so the teacher in you goes, "Oh, okay, that's something I need to think about next time I have a student struggling with the passage like that." You know, um, so teaching is this great thing, um, where there— I think when it's working best, there's this constant, like, exchange of ideas and experimentation. I think it's why I like it so much, right? Because, like, that's, that's the place I feel really comfortable as, as a musician, um, where I really like the process. I really like sucking until I don't suck as much, right? Like, that's what's really— it's like, like, the concert that actually happens is like, all right, cool, cool, that'll happen, you know what I mean? Like, that's, that's the thing. But like, I love the experience of connecting with people, but the actual like performing of the product I've worked so hard towards is like, that's, that's, I don't know, 10% of it, you know what I mean? It's— that's not the stuff that I love. Um, So I think that's why teaching is so interesting and, and why, um, you know, it can be also, I think, so challenging if you're used to being fairly, like, prescriptive and sort of being told what to do and how to manipulate things. And then you get a human being in front of you, um, and you try to have the same prescription except, like, uh, it's not working. Like, what do we do, you know? Um, so I think there's an incredible, um, opportunity for for musicians to sort of use teaching as a toolbox. Like, it's like, you know, there's this thing I think I remember when I started teaching, like, oh my God, if I say or do the wrong thing, I'm going to ruin this child in front of me. Like, kids are resilient. They're great. They're going to figure it out. You know, like, you can't ruin a kid. Like, it's like a ridiculous thing that we think of. So just try and be humble and like, okay, let me try. And then the other part of that is I think classical musicians kind of need to get over that, that hump that we have that like being good at something doesn't entitle you to be good at everything. And so, yeah, go improvise on a 2-chord song and sound bad because everyone who you hear that sounds good at it spent hours sounding bad on a 2-chord song. You know, like you're not special because you went to school. You don't get to like pass that step automatically. Um, and I think so if you take some humility with it, like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna play an awful, terrible solo, and I'm gonna do that, but I'm gonna do it like every day for 20 minutes. Like, if, if everyone did that in 6 weeks, they would blow themselves away at what they had to say at an instrument. And, and it like sometimes really like frankly pisses me off that classical musicians don't do that, because I'm like, well, the second you start like channeling your brain that way, like then you get to go like, oh hey, hey look, you already have all this amazing facility. Now you can say anything you want to say. Like, like as a kid who, who like heard these things and had to teach themselves, like I had to teach myself technique to be able to play the things I wanted to play. And now many classical musicians are in the place where like, well, here's all the technique, like you can play anything you want to play. All you have to do is be interested in developing something to say, and then like, there you go, right? Um, so that's that, like, that's a— again, it's like having that humility of just, okay, I'm not good at this, right? Like, I'm not good at transposing, let me work at it, you know? Um, I did this silly thing where like, um, I took a— I took 81A, and I was like, this is like 5 or 6 years ago, I was like, I'm gonna learn how to play the first movement in every single key, you know? Like, I should be able to do that, you know? And like, you learn a lot doing that, you know? You learn that like, I am really not as good at G-sharp as I thought I was, right? I'm just not as good at it, you know? Uh, and then you also learn some amazing things about the timbre of your instrument, like, which you know. You know why Chopin's writing this Nocturne in C minor and not in C-sharp minor, you know, but like you kind of take it for granted and you start playing things and you're like, oh, that B section sounds friggin awful in this key, right? It's like tinny and it doesn't connect and like, oh, okay, so like key really matters. And then your brain goes, oh, so like when they modulate, they're really thinking not just about like, you know, like I hate that about theory. They're like, well, everyone got bored about moving to the V chord and now we're going to move to the III chord, right? Like, no, they're thinking about it as creatives. Like, I want to make this feeling, you know, I want this harmony to cut and hit in a way that just like interrupts you or catches you off guard. And this is the key it has to happen in. Not like— and then they work backwards. Okay, how the heck do I get to this key? Okay, cool. I'm going to take this theme and like turn it upside down and then we'll do a sequence and then, okay, boom, we're there, you know? But it's not like, well, I went to the V chord in the last 4 movements and now I'm like, that's not— no, because again, like, You know, I have a colleague that I won't name whose joke was like, you know, theory is not music, it's music that exists only in theory, right? It's like, but I mean, I love theory. I love having a language that I can label something that I know, right? But I think there's real danger in labeling things that we don't know, that we don't experience first, that we don't have emotional connections to. And I find in my own collegiate teaching, like, my students will get really overwhelmed with the amount of labeling that is imposed upon them, right? Like all of the labels that they have to know and all of the ideas that they have to know. And then they get in front of an instrument and they're like, well, I don't— there are too many labels here. And I mean, that's like, that's what's great about this thing. Like we forget this thing instantly. You can make a beautiful sound on. You can also make a polyphonic sound on, right? It's an incredible, incredible thing to say, okay, wait, hold on, so like if I just take a D to D scale, like I can play a chord, like wait, and then I can just move that shape anywhere on the keyboard and it sounds Wait, I can play a different bass note and play the same chords anywhere? Wait, I can do that endlessly and it sounds really neat? Right? And I can develop ideas and themes. And you don't have to be a pianist to be able to do that. Like, what a gift, you know? I need to know one shape, that's it, and I just need to move that shape around. It's, uh, I'm getting, uh, you know, horribly off topic, which my students always say I do, um, but that's where all the interesting stuff is anyway, right? So I mean, those are amazing opportunities that you have, like, every day you wake wake up, you know. So it's like every day I wake up and I'm practicing Bach because practicing Bach makes me a better person and musician, right? And every day I wake up, like, I'm practicing improvising, right? And every day I wake up, I practice songwriting, right? And like, what comes out is often crap, right? It's like, what, what is this thing, you know? Um, but every now and then something really cool happens, you know. I find like I try to go to my instrument early in the morning and late at night because I find that's when I'm less judgmental of myself. You know, like there are certain things I'll sit down and play or certain things I'll sit down and sing that just feel right and feel comfortable. And so I find like, oh, I'm, you know, if I do that at 2, then I have that voice inside my head that's like, why did you do that? That's awful, you know? And as an improviser, you learn really quickly, like, that voice is really helpful when I'm like 90% there. That voice is destructive any time before that. So you kind of learn to like shut that, that part of your brain up. But I think we're still like, we're in a very uncertain, judgmental place in the world right now. So, you know, a lot of what I practice with my students— we did this thing where, like, I had my students in my class last semester, like, okay, you know what, 5 minutes of every class. And, you know, like, I work really hard to create cultures where students feel like they can experiment and mess up and fail, and that we embrace that. Because I do that all the time with them. And I think it's really important that they feel comfortable doing that. Because you know this as a teacher, clinicians know this as music therapists, like the second you start teaching, the second you put a human being in front of you, it is no longer about your musicianship or your pianism or your skill. It's about the person in front of you. Who cares if you're playing wrong notes? You need to just shut that part. Who cares if like that voicing wasn't good or you played with the wrong dynamic or your timing was off? Like, no, it's not about you. It's about the person in front of you. So I work really hard to make that culture and develop that culture. But you know what we did because my students were so hurting for community and culture. And so we just did a thing where like the first 5 minutes of, you know, every Zoom session was like, Hey, all right, I want you— I would give them like very simple stipulations and I want you to develop an idea over the course of this next week. And then we're just gonna all listen to you and completely interrupted. You have 5 minutes. You can play for 30 seconds. You can play for 4 minutes and 50 seconds. It doesn't matter. But like, I want you to present an idea musically based on these little stipulations that I give them.

Them.

That was really meaningful to them.

I'm sure they're having so much fun just doing these exercises. You're not just a piano teacher who says, "Go back home and practice this 5 minutes, that 2 hours." It becomes a real opportunity for them to experience musicianship. I know we're running out of time, Josh and This is such a good conversation, but I do have a burning question I've been wanting to ask. And so with all this that you've been sharing with us, what is— what are some good artists or artists or groups that you personally respect or admire that, you know, you would recommend to your students? Because, you know, there are some of them out there, but sometimes, you know, what the students I think for me even, because of the culture I grew up with, I realized I had to relearn who I should respect or having critical judgments on why. So what's your take?

Yeah, I'm going to go really high level on you and I'm really sorry.

I'm sorry.

So one of my educational heroes is John Dewey. And experience in education. And so, you know, a really revolutionary idea of John Dewey's at the turn of the century was that, you know, before John Dewey was writing, you know, we sort of saw students as like sponges, right? Like memorize a lot of facts and practice memorizing that, and then regurgitate that information, and that's what learning is, right? And John Dewey was really revolutionary and saying that like, what's our job as educators to meet students where they already are on their journey as formed people, right? As people with opinions and values and beliefs and loves and interests, and to learn who those people are. And then like that juncture is where we start the process, right? So what I always say is, There's great music being made everywhere, all the time, every day, in every genre, right? And you're all great musicians, right? So listen to your students and listen to what they listen to and start there, you know? I love that there's like— my musical world is ever-expanding because of my students. Things, you know, because they're bringing in things constantly for me to listen to. Um, but I also am able to like, hey, here's the stuff, like, oh, you like this, you know, like, you should listen to this. I mean, like, it blows my mind that, that I, I can teach an 18-year-old who's never heard Sarah Vaughan sing, you know, like, that blows my mind. But what a gift that I'm the person at that moment is like, oh, have you listened to April in Paris? Listen to how Sarah Vaughan phrases that melody, you know. Now I have students that just literally in front of class just break down crying the first time they've heard someone sing like that because they've never heard someone make a sound out of their mouth hole that sounds like that, right? Um, and I remember that feeling, you know. Um, and so yeah, I mean, I, I think that, uh, that's where I would start. I would start from, from a place where, um, your students I mean, like, like, like the joke I always make with my students is like, you know what, I would, I would, I would probably commit all kinds of illegal acts to have access to the technology that my students have, right? Like when I was a kid and I heard a song, like I had to go back and like move the needle and listen to it again, or I had to go to the library. Like you can go on YouTube YouTube and listen to like the same artist perform their song 8 different ways and then listen to 30 covers of it, right? Like, there's a plugin on Chrome that will connect to Spotify or to YouTube that will transpose any recording so that you can play along to it in a different key. And it'll also like— you can set up a loop like, okay, here's the 15 seconds I want to hear, and I want to hear it up a whole step, and I want to hear it endlessly. Like, like, I would be a ridiculously better musician if I had access to that kind of technology. So I always tell my students, I'm like, just, just go down the YouTube rabbit hole. Like, just, just do that, you know, because like that will change your life. I mean, it really, really will. So I know that's not like giving specific artists, but that was like, like right next to you is, uh, 6 stacks or 6 long wooden boxes of LPs, and, um, they're loosely sorted by genre, but like I listen to everything, you know. Um, so my, my musical taste, like chances are my students always like make fun of me, um, because they'll like mention some song and I'll just start playing it and they're like, "Oh, Massako, you know all the songs." I'm like, well, no, it's just like something happens in your brain when you've learned and sang thousands of songs where like you hear another song, you hear a new song and you're like, your brain just kind of subconsciously goes, oh, it's like that other song I know. And then like you just start making those kind of assumptions, which makes music really cool because then like you'll get halfway through the chorus and you're like, oh, oh cool, they go to like I go with flat 7 here, that's weird. You know, like you just kind of, you start to hear those little things or you start to hear like, my wife's like a beautiful singer and she grew up listening to Joan Baez and Emmylou Harris, right? So if like you listen to how Emmylou Harris sings a harmony part and like you can kind of follow along and then like 7 notes into it you're like, she's singing a major second with the melody? Like who would choose that note? And it's like transcendent. And it sounds amazing and it makes her harmony part sound different than anyone else's harmony part, you know? So you just hear these little things and your ear kind of goes, "Oh, cool." You know, like I grew up listening to Randy Newman, you know, like go listen to a Randy Newman strings chart on like one of his records from like the '70s or '80s. Like I defy you to hear— like there's a reason he writes Disney music now, right? Like no one can score a string chart better than Randy Newman. No class— like, I haven't heard a modern classical composer like score something with that level of intent and artistry. Like, it's exceptional if you really sit down there and listen to it. You're like, oh, this is a perfect chart. It's— there's— you couldn't do this better. Or like Nelson Riddle, right? Listen to those Sinatra arrangements and like listen to Nelson Riddle's scoring. Like, oh, this is perfect. Like, no, I can't do any better than this. Like, you know, So that's, that's, I know, again, like a really long, long answer to your question, but that's kind of where I start. I have music personally that I, that I love and that, you know, has been the soundtrack of my life. Like, I'm doing this Jackson Browne show and, you know, I, I remember hearing "Late for This Guy" when I was 7 years old, and like the first time, you know, that piano lick comes in And then there's a harmony part. It's a Hammond organ, and it goes on, right? Like, you have this whole thing that is like— there's a song that just transports you. Uh, Ken Brescia, who is my my publisher for my book, has this great elegant thing, and I'm going to butcher it completely, where, you know, he says that songs are the soundtracks to our lives, you know, and as we age, that soundtrack changes and it takes on different meaning. And the whole point of what he was saying, and I take this as a performer but also as a teacher really seriously that, you know, like at any point a song that you're performing or that you're working on, um, could be the song or the piece that is the most meaningful piece of music for another human being. And like, what an awesome, intimate, deeply meaningful responsibility to be in this position as a musician where like I can be part of the moment that transports someone 40 years ago, right? It's like the, the first concert they ever went to as a 19-year-old, or the first kiss they had in the back of their parents' car. Like, music can do that to us in a way that, like, poetry and literature can't quite, you know? Um, and that's why I'm a musician, you know? Like, that's why I made really stupid life decisions to do this thing. So, because I can't.

Well, that's almost like a perfect answer, really.

Yeah, you're in good company.

We all did the same thing.

That's right.

I try to take that seriously, is the, you know, is the sort of like little thing that I think about all the time.

Well, in the end, we're responsible of building their curiosity, right, as teachers, and that, you know, they can be as good as a machine, really, but if there's no curiosity, it's it's just never going to flourish. Right.

So rapid fire. You ready for rapid fire questions? All right. Key is short, one-word answers whenever possible. I know that's your forte. So, so first question, number 1, what is your comfort food?

Red beans and rice.

Nice. Number 2, cats or dogs?

Cats.

What is your word or words to live by?

Be humble and always be curious.

Excellent. And what is the most important quality you look for in other people?

Humility and curiosity. No, I mean, um, I'm an empath, you know, like, I think I, I really, um, want to relate to people. And, and so, uh, when people are, are kind, as corny as that sounds, are empathetic, like, those are the people that I, I gravitate towards as musicians, as human beings. Like, that's kind of— those are the people I want to surround my life with.

Yeah, totally. All right. And, uh, what is the worst quality in people you want to avoid?

Um, arrogance.

Great.

All right. All right.

My turn. Name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead.

Uh, musically or otherwise?

Anyone.

Okay. Um, Jeez, that's such a hard question to answer. I know I have to keep it short. Um, my grandfather, who passed away when I was, uh, 13, was a really big influence in my life, um, as a human being and as a, as a fellow creative. Um, and, uh, musically, um, jeez, I don't know. Um It changes all the time. So I'm going to totally cop out and not mention musicians and mention my wife. She's number 2.

Though she is a musician.

She is a musician.

If it all counts.

She's the reason I'm not adrift at sea most of the time. And I don't know, a third person. The very, very first recording I can ever remember hearing was the opening of Paul McCartney singing "Never Give Me Your Money." And so Paul McCartney's voice has always been in my head as long as I can remember.

Okay.

I don't know, he's another person that comes to mind right now.

All right, great. All right, next question. Which historical figure or composer do you want to learn or take lessons from if she or he were alive?

Oh man, I mean, there's so many. Um, I, uh, I would love to sit down with so many of them, but, um, But yeah, just to be a fly on the wall of like, as a keyboard player, like be a fly on the wall listening to like what Chopin played in his parlor at night when he wasn't writing anything down. I would just give anything to just be sitting in that chair next to him.

Great.

Which historical figure or composer do you wish to hang out with at the bar if she or he were alive?

Oh, definitely Pulang.

Great answer.

Very interesting guy.

Yes, I totally agree. And my turn, and we're going back to the question earlier. Name one piece in your current playlist.

One piece, uh, classical or—

doesn't matter, anything.

Um, geez, I'm just trying to think of like what, because like the weird thing about running this concert venue is that I'm listening to like all the music of these people, like on my way to the venue. So my playlists are really weird right now. But geez, I was just listening to collected solo recordings of Thelonious Monk, and I've always loved Monk's playing. You know, it's like, again, we talked about you know, uh, uh, sorry, Glenn Gould having that ability to like make a sound that's unique on instrument. And like it took all these years to get to Monk being like, well, I want to play the note between E and E-flat on the piano, but I can't, so I'm just gonna play both of them and that's a new note, right? So like, great.

All right, yeah, got it. All right, that's great. And then now name a book title you're currently reading.

I'm reading Kazuo Ishiguro's new novel, "Klara and the Sun," and it's— his writing is beautiful. It's a really beautiful book.

Drop it down. And you get only one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life, what is it?

I cannot answer that question.

I would lose my mind.

Finally, an honest answer.

Thank you.

Everybody hates that one.

That's right.

Oh my goodness.

No answer is the answer.

Yeah, no, I think, I think I would probably prefer silence to hearing the same song for the rest of my life. I think I just like, I couldn't do it. It's like that story about the, the Russian cosmonaut who, uh, there was like a ticking, like a repetitive ticking, and he had to hear the music and it already loses his mind, you know, like so Yeah, I don't think I can do that.

Well, I give you easy one to end our questions. Nouris, music is blank.

Music is blank.

What is your word? Fill in the blank.

Music is human.

Wow.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

You win.

You won. No, no gift, but you won.

All right, Josh. Well, I'm afraid that's going to have to conclude this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song.

Yeah, I'm sorry I completely derailed your, uh, your, your very well lined up and pitched conversation about, uh, inherent challenges in conservatory training and sidetracked it completely.

That's okay, we'll just have you back to do that one again. But I think we hit on a lot of the issues. Um, anyway, as always with you, it's it's been a humbling and inspiring experience.

This has been so much fun. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. And thank you as always to our audience for tuning in. For anyone who is interested, you can find Josh's textbook on functional piano at barcelonapublishers.com, and his band Stella Hill is on Bandcamp and all other online streaming platforms.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review on whatever podcasting platform you use. If you are watching us on YouTube, remember to hit the thumbs up button and be sure to subscribe to our channel. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. The links are in the description below.

If you have any feedback for us, please leave it in the comments or DM us via social media, or you can also email us at thepianopodnyc@gmail.com.

See you next time on The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Josh.

Thank you so much.

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