Virtuoso Reimagined: A Journey of Reinvention, From IT Executive to Steinway Artist with Holistic Vision - Sophia Agranovich

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Welcome back to a new episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. Today's episode is extra special because it's the final episode of 2024. Before we begin, I want to express my gratitude to our incredible listeners, the extraordinary artists who appeared on the show, and our amazing sponsors who have supported Season 5 since it began in September. Thank you for making this year such a success. I'm excited to continue bringing you fun and joyous episodes for the rest of Season 5 in 2025. Now, I am so thrilled to introduce our guest, Sophia Agranović, an internationally acclaimed virtuoso pianist, recording artist, stymie artist, and educator. Critics have described her as a bold, daring pianist in the Golden Age Romantic tradition and praised her as one of the most accomplished classical pianists of her day. Sofia's breathtaking virtuosity and profound musical sensitivity have captivated audiences worldwide. She has graced prestigious stages from Carnegie Hall and Lincoln Center to international festivals in France and beyond. Her extensive discography, including celebrated albums like "Album Leaf: Piano Works by Mendelssohn" and "Liszt: Rhapsodies, Etudes, and Transcriptions," has consistently topped global charts. Beyond the concert stage, Sophia is a renowned educator whose students have won numerous competitions and gone on to institutions like Juilliard and Manhattan School of Music. She continues to shape the next generation of musicians, instilling a deep appreciation for both technical excellence and emotional expression. Ms. Agranovich has been recognized annually in Who's Who in America and Who's Who in the World. Her work has appeared in prominent publications like American Record Guide, The New York Times, Broadway World, and major media outlets including Fox News and ABC News. But Sophia's story doesn't stop at music. Alongside her celebrated artistic career, she also built a distinguished path in information technology, holding leadership roles for over two decades. She has explored holistic health, earned certification in yoga and Pilates, and even taught at the YMCA. You can learn more about Sophia on her Wikipedia page and her website. Links to both are included in the show notes. We are honored to have her with us today to share her experiences, artistry, and insights into her multifaceted career. Now, looking ahead, we have more exciting guests lined up in the new year, and The Piano Pod isn't stopping there. We are also planning exciting events beyond podcasts and broadcasts in the upcoming year. To be the first to know about our guests and upcoming plans, please subscribe to our newsletter and follow our Instagram broadcast channel @ThePianoPod with Yukimi Song. All the links are listed in the show notes. If you've enjoyed listening this year, please consider supporting The Piano Pod with a donation. Your donation helps us continue bringing these inspiring conversations to life. You can find the PayPal donation link in the description below. So, let's close out 2024 with an inspiring episode featuring the incredible Sofia Agronovich. Please, Enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the future and thriving in a complex, ever-evolving world. Welcome to The Piano Pod, Sofia. So great to see you.

Thank you so much for invitation. I love your programs and it's an honor and pleasure to be speaking with you.

Oh, it's honor is mine. And then I believe last time actually we spoke was on the phone a couple months ago to discuss about this show and your appearance. And that's actually the— for the first time we actually quote unquote met, but this is the very first time actually we meet face to face. So are you joining from New York? Right.

Um, actually I live in New Jersey.

Okay.

Okay. So it's close to New York, but it's separated by a lot of traffic. So I'm glad I can do it online. Technology is great when you know how to use it.

Yes, that's right. Sophia. So you have achieved so much as a multi-award-winning virtuoso pianist, recording artist, Steinway artist, educator, and also you used to have leadership position in IT, info technology sector, right? Yeah, you've also studied, you know, traditional Indian medicine, Chinese medicine. So many people know you for your musical accomplishments, but you've seamlessly balanced different fields throughout your life. If you were to describe yourself by blending everything you do professionally, personally into just in a few sentences, how would you capture the essence of who you are?

Yeah. In a nutshell, I'm actually a very passionate and dedicated artist, and my life is a blend of music, creativity, and lifelong learning. Um, as a pianist, educator, and artistic director, I try to inspire through profound emotional power of music while sharing my knowledge and experiences with others, both on and off the stage. Um, my life journey has also led me to explore fields beyond music, as you said, from technology to holistic health, all of which shape my approach to teaching, performing, and living with intention. I believe that my mission is to inspire, connect for growth and transformation. I believe that love, beauty, music, and art can promote world peace. And this is the, um, my overall goal.

Beautiful. Well said.

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I read your bio and studied about you a little bit to prepare for this show, and then also you have such an incredible, impressive Wikipedia page.

Thank you. Yes, the basic stuff.

But what struck me was that you made the bold decision to pause your, you know, flourishing musical career and pursue a highly successful path in info technology that was In the 1980s?

Yes. What happened? Um, I graduated Juilliard and actually it's, it's kind of a long story because something led to it while I was in Juilliard. You know, there is music field is so hard in arts field. And my parents were very traditional parents. They just wanted me to have a good family and kids and live a happy life, which is, I want for my kids the same thing. Now I understand them very well. And by nature, believe it or not, I'm extremely shy, wildly shy. It's not that I had stage fright. I just, I like to study. I like to go into depths of things. And for me, it's kind of, performance was kind of iffy and superficial in a way, but I love to perform. There is another part of my personality that I love to perform once I get into that. And seeing how hard it is to be an artist and especially have to go through all these competitions, and everyone knows how much politics are there and how much unfair it might be in many cases, not in every case, of course. I said, it's not up to my character to be a professional pianist. It just, I'm more like scientist and researcher. And, uh, just improving myself and, and helping others. That's, that's just how I am. Um, so I thought, oh, my parents probably are right, but I kept going because I enjoyed playing, of course. And I, you know, I love art. And, um, then I got married and I was actually expecting my first child and I just couldn't go farther. I stopped my— I started my EdD, um, Doctor of Education at Columbia University Teachers College. I had to stop that. And, um, my husband didn't make much money at all, so I had to start teaching and start earning for the family. So I just dropped out from everything because family is the most important. I still feel that way. And people and family, it's the most important. Important. Not, not career, not the glitter, nothing, nothing matters. And driven by necessity, just to make ends meet, I had to get another job because, you know, teaching is hard, um, hard to, to make a living, especially if you're a beginning, um, teacher. And I switched to computer programming. I always loved— I was— I always loved technology, and I was very interested because it was a new field in the '80s. New. So I took a course at Empire Technical School for a year. I loved that. I just loved it. And I was very good. And everybody said that I should be like high, high-level consultant, make tons of money. And I said, you know what, I should just get a job and see what I can do. So I got a dream job. I, every interview I passed, and I was very surprised because everybody wanted me. Um, you know, all these, um, companies that I was applying to, and I chose MetLife.

Why?

Because I had a student who worked at MetLife, and he said, um, that in Manhattan they had two buildings. Each building had a concert hall with Steinway grand piano. He practiced it. This is a dream job. I'm getting this. I'll learn more computers, which I, I was like enchanted by, I will practice every lunchtime and I will come home and be with my daughter. This is like, and I got the job. So I started, they put me on a very high level project in the technology, which used to be a CICS, which was very new with colored screen. It was like a new technology. I had no idea what I was doing because I never took this course. They just interviewed me and saw that I'm very bright. They gave me some tests. And I started digging through all these books and like learning this very fast. And it was very interesting because we had a consulting company which wanted to get more money from us. And they tried to write the code in such a way that nobody knew what is head or tails. I figured out that code and they kicked out this consulting company. Oh, I got an award from president, presidential, like MetLife award for for that and I got a promotion and everything and said, oh, you know what, maybe I should stay in this field. Uh, and that's how I stayed for 23 years. Then I switched to Merrill Lynch because the job was more challenging and more interesting. I learned all the technologies, all the languages that were available at that time. And I was promoted to vice president and then, um, yeah. Um, assistant VP, then VP, and I was kind of managing a lot of people. I mean, I can go on and on because, um, it's— I still love this and it was a very, very good time. But what happened every single day, you said, even if I worked overtime and I worked long overtime hours, weekends, sometimes night calls for maintenance, 3 o'clock in the morning, calls with London, Japan, wherever, had to fix the problem or help others. Every single day I was practicing piano, no matter what. I used to come home and I drove to work, you know, I come home, I'm totally exhausted. I was sitting down at the piano with closed eyes, which I couldn't move. I was practicing 10 minutes, 20 minutes, half an hour, every single day, no matter what. This was by advice from my teachers, Sasha Gerebnitsky, Who was the head of piano faculty, very, very well known at his time. He had the best students. Um, I mean, his students were very famous and still are. And Nazerai Zomorbas, whom I studied later, they both told me the same: don't give up, play no matter what, uh, because it's— that's who you are, and then you will be happy. Of course, family is very important and do you still like programming and stuff, but never give up music because you will regret it later. So I followed their advice, and that was the best advice anybody ever gave me. And that's what I—

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Tell my students, I tell my story to my students who sometimes come and say, oh, I have so much stuff to do at school and I have all these activities. I just don't have time to practice every day. So I tell them briefly my story. I said, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, just sit, play Hanon exercise or the piece that you really love. And they follow it. And then once they start, they go on and on because everybody has 20 minutes a day to do. So, um, and they're very grateful for for that because then they get into routine. And, um, a lot of my students, they are not, they're not professionals. They, they don't have intention to become pretty. A lot of them do, but a lot of them don't. But when they, when it's time for some of my private students to go to college, a lot of them choose either music minor, um, Or, or they still continue taking lessons with me even in college and they teach, um, kids. That's how they earn money. So, and some of them are, became like real good professionals too. So, uh, I'm very, very grateful for that advice to my teachers. And, uh, that's what made, uh, basically my career, but to make a long story shorter and to answer your actual question. Question, how do I switch? How did they, um, I came back to music. Mary Lynch and Bank of America were mentioned. Nobody knew about it. So they offered a golden parachute, beautiful, like, uh, package. And they say, you better retire and take it, package. And somebody told me, because otherwise they fire you. So I took that package, which was great. And then I decided, oh, you know what? Um, I went, I used, I went through some of my life crisis because my mother was very sick and it's a very long story. I said, you know, what's important in life? Let me just do what I always wanted to do. And actually I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to be a ballet dancer too, but I wanted to be a doctor like my father. My father was a very good dentist. Yeah. So, and I always loved holistic health. And I was studying yoga on my own many years and all this holistic medicine, which helped me a lot in Juilliard, actually meditation and everything. Uh, so I said, let me study and I love it. So I'll, it's an ideal profession because I'll do what I also love. Um, it would be very healthy for me and I would actually help other people because programming is very interesting. And I love also management because I was, I was pretty good manager. I sometimes did a lot of work for other people. That's when they loved me, but I enjoyed, that's how I learned how to communicate with people. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to talk to you today. It's not for that management position. So everything has its purpose in life. Sometimes you don't realize. So after, after I decided not to come back to programming, I took courses. I mean, official courses., in yoga, Pilates, holistic, um, health. I became holistic health practitioner, uh, holistic life coach. There's a lot, a lot of stuff. And, and Reiki master also. Reiki helped me a lot. And I started, I even got a job at the local Y teaching yoga and Pilates. I was teaching for 2 years there and I, it was also ideal job for me at the time. It was like 5 minutes from my house. And instead of doing my own exercise, I went there, did my exercises, helped other people. And they— everybody loved my class. Why? I think because I chose, together with your Indian music and some meditative music, New Age music, I took classical compositions and I created my own playlist. This classical music, for example, Second Movement of Chopin, um, B minor, Third Movement of Chopin, B minor Sonata, Moonlight Sonata, of course, and stuff like this. So people came to my class, I think music, that's what inspired them. And that's what made my class different. So next time they came also with their husbands and wives and the teachers from, they came to see Why everybody wants to take my class? So, and they played this music and, um, I think that's what did it. At the same time, I had to earn money because it was part-time job. It was not full-time job. So I started giving lessons, um, as you know, I gave occasionally while I was at Mary Lynch, but it was just for the love of it, not for money or anything. So students started coming and I rediscovered myself as a teacher because now being a parent, I had completely different understanding of child's psychology. For me, it was more, um, communicating with human beings and about life. And, uh, sometimes they would tell me all the problems that would never tell their parents. And it was so enjoyable just being with them and teaching them. I didn't follow any particular method. Everything is very, very individual, as a lot of teachers do, but I really enjoyed this flexibility. Um, so I said, wow, this is good. I, I, you know, I taught piano minor at Juilliard for— I mean, my students were sometimes older than me, but it was completely different. The, the students in Juilliard were professionals. This were completely fresh young souls that it was so enriching just communicating with them. I loved it. I loved it. And I started giving concerts because I always practice. Oh, why not have the whole program? Let me just give a concert. Started inquiring the venue, started giving concerts, created little bio. And then I'm looking at the bio, say, oh my God, my bio looks good. And then I got a manager and manager said, Oh, don't put that you are a programmer because nobody will take you seriously. I took out my programming stuff and I started playing around and, um, I became like known in my area. Everybody loved it. Then I became a Steinway artist because I fulfilled all the requirements and I had extensive— I started playing more and more and more in the better venues. And that's how the whole thing started. So as if I never left. Then after, after I got, then I started recording and recording was kind of by accident because one of my, uh, Juliette friends, she has her husband own a recording studio. So that's how it started. She said, just do a test recording. And then I started getting awards and then that's, here I am. Came back to music. I mean, it's a very long story, and of course it had a lot of heartaches and a lot of trials and tribulations, as you can imagine. But that's in short, you know, how the whole thing happened.

Wow, it's a lot to unpack here. And yes, what an interesting story. And, uh, but also anything you do it seems that you want to achieve excellence, right?

It's not that I plan to achieve excellence. I just, anything I do, I try to do my best. And I'm not really a perfectionist in that sense. I, like they told me at Merrill Lynch, if your program is 80% works, don't just, it's okay. Because I, at my computer program, I was a perfect, Everything has to be perfect. So I like to do a good job the best I can according to the circumstances, because nothing is perfect ever. And that's what I teach my students. Some of them are, oh, I can't play this. I didn't practice. I said, just push. You know, I can't go to this concert. I can't play. I said, just do your best because it's, uh, it's good to have experience and teach others. It's, it's very rewarding for both.

Yeah. Okay, so now we get the sort of whole picture of your life and career. So let's just dissect little by little. Okay, can we go back where it all started? So I believe you grew up in Ukraine and studied with influential teachers like Alexander Edelman. I think he moved to New York later and taught at NYU, right?

Yes.

Right. And, but I want to know where does this really love for music happened and how the music was introduced to you? What was it like to study under these amazing piano pedagogues?

Well, it was all because of my mom. She was erudite. She knew a couple of languages. She was an English teacher in Russia, but she knew also German, French. She knew all the operas. She was singing all the, uh, arias, men's or women's, in Russian, Ukrainian. She heard it on the radio and she just picked it up. So music was always in our house. We had extensive library, book library, because she knew all the literature. Of course, she was a linguist. And we had a lot of recordings. I still have them. I brought with me all these LP recordings by Richter, Gillies, Greenberg, you know, all these old Russian masters. And music was always in our house. So it was kind of natural. And in my city, everybody was studying music. It was a very cultural city. It's, um, actually it's not pure Ukraine. It was under influence of Austro-Hungarian Empire, Chernivtsi. So the whole architecture was Austro-Hungarian and and German. And it's multicultural town, very unusual. It was not purely Ukrainian or mixture Ukrainian-Russian, which is— that's what happens now. It had— they had at least 7 different nationalities. Everybody loved each other, all the cultures blend. This used to be a cultural center, um, in Europe for a long time. And Liszt and Chopin were playing there. They even have the statue of Liszt in the central, um, theater square. And this theater in Chernowitz is built by the same architecture architect that built like Vienna, and it's in the same style as Vienna and Paris. And, um, actually Odessa Opera Theater, it looks built in the same style. So they call this town was Vienna and Paris in miniature. Very cultured, very clean. It's different, had different flavor. So, and of course, parents wanted to educate kids a lot. So everybody was taking music, English or German or some other language, sports, ballet, very educated. They tried to educate their kids. So, you know, I started playing piano because everybody did. And I was going too slow because I got so bored at the lesson because my teacher gave me this, the next lesson he gave me a little bit more. I said, I'm not playing. I can't, this is too boring. So my mom said, if you don't wanna study, I'll close it. You're not playing it. And she said, this is the lock. It's an old-fashioned piano, Russian piano, Krasniksy. She locked the piano. I said, that's fine with me. Then like after a month, something, you know, I wanna try again because I said, mom, unlock the piano. I want to do something, but I don't want to take lessons. So I started playing and I went through the whole, it was Berkovich, I think, book, you know, initial book like we have here. I went through the whole book myself and I kept playing and all the neighbors of course heard, oh, she's so talented, whom she studied with. Said my mother, no. Said, you know what, she has to go to, there was a beautiful music school. She said, she has to go to music school. And, um, said, oh, but she's not ready. So yeah, but they, uh, they said it's okay because she'll just take a test. So I played something, I sang, they discovered I have perfect pitch, which I had no idea. And they took me into music school and then I started like, got a very good teacher and started progressing really fast. So my teacher was a very, very nice lady and she was very good for beginners. And then this famous, we had the famous teacher, Anna Israelna Stelarevich, who was the friend of Horowitz and studied with his teacher in Kyiv Conservatory and also with Neuhaus. And she was friends with Edelman, who was studying at the same time. So they were all friends. So she heard about me and somebody told me that she told some neighbors that she wants to have me, you know, like. Teachers search for good students. So they contacted me and I said, okay, I'll play whatever I can. So I played for her. I don't even remember what. And she took me into her class, but she didn't teach in that music school. She taught in a musical college in Czernowitz, which all after this, it's like beginning of concert music conservatory equivalent here. And she took me, the only one from that school, from, from the young ones. And then I started going so fast and she prepared me for this competition that I won at 10, um, all Ukrainian competition. I played Chopin Concerto, first movement. Then when I did actually research, when I came here, I said, what is this competition? I never heard. Then I went and did some research. It became, after I left, it became Mykola Lysenko International Ukrainian Competition, which I didn't know they renamed it. And it's pretty well known. Competition, but it started when I won it. It was just maybe in the second year. They named it different. It was All-Ukrainian Young Artists Competition. Okay. So after this, winning this, I started being like a local celebrity, so to say, you know, TV appearance, radio, whatever. So my teacher said, you have, you have to go to Moscow to study in, um, in the pre-college, very famous school. And my parents would never let me do it because, you know, I'm like very well-behaved, you know, domesticated, shy. They wouldn't let me go to Moscow. I was okay with it because I didn't intend to be a musician. I liked everything, arts, um, ballet, reading. I didn't know whom I wanted to be. Actually, I wanted to be a ballet dancer, but I was a little overweight for that. So that never came. Although I became a soloist then in school from one of the dances in the It didn't count. Tyler Reddick here from 23XI Racing. Game night's fun until someone spends 5 minutes lining up one shot. Chalk, breathe, rechalk, still aiming.

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And then we had to go to America. It's for personal reasons. I wouldn't say why. It's not because we wanted to leave, but it was early first wave of immigration, you know, because I came here, it's '71, '72, on the border of '72. So there were not many Russian immigrants, I mean Soviet immigrants at the time. So my teacher, yeah, my teacher, Anna Israelna, she used to take me to master classes to Alexander Delman, to Lviv, now Ukrainian. And, um, he was so excellent, he was good. So he said, you have to be a pianist, you will have a brilliant future. And the boss told me, 'You have to go to New York and get to the Juilliard School.' So I'm just like, yeah, Juilliard School right away. I couldn't believe that. Because we tried just to survive, my family. We had some problem. So we immigrated. We came to America. My father went to New York to investigate what is this Juilliard School. He brought me the catalog of courses and they say, oh, you know, uh, it's right in time for exam. We came, we stayed actually 4 months in Paris waiting for visa. That's where I fell in love with, um, Europe and everything, but that's a very long story. So I said, oh, you know, it's just in time for exam. Let me prepare a couple of pieces. So without teacher, without anybody, my father rented me a piano. I said, let me try it. Doesn't matter. I can get a scholarship because, you know, we don't have any money. So I prepared the program. I went to exam. I took exam and I was accepted. Wow. And you know who took me? Sasha Garadnitsky, who was a head of piano department at the time, one of the best teachers. And he had only another teacher in a student in pre-college, uh, Raul Sumico. From Philippines. And he took me as a pre-college student. I couldn't believe it.

How old were you then?

14, 15? I think I was 15 at the time.

You know, my teacher at NYU was Eduardo Salim.

Yes.

Yes. Right. So he studied under Sasha Goronitsky as well.

Yeah.

I remember.

Amazing. Oh, you're so lucky.

Yeah. Oh, yes. Yes.

He's a wonderful personality too. I love him.

Yes. He's a lovely person.

Yeah.

Anyway, please continue. Yeah.

So I got in and then I don't have money to pay. They told me I have to apply for scholarship. I applied for scholarship. I got the full scholarship. That's how I, I started becoming— I said, oh my God, but now I have to take it seriously. Now I'm a professional. So somebody gave me actually My mother got a job. My mother was like very educated, but she got a job in Novorusskaja Slova, Russian daily, as a helper of an editor-in-chief, Sidik. He's passed away a long time ago. And he actually gave me this Steinway piano as a present.

Oh, wow.

Right. So other— yeah, we rented a piano before Baldwin, which was also very good, but He gave me this as a present and that's how I was on the path to be a professional pianist. That's how it all started. And all the time I thought it was kind of an accident because, you know, I didn't really prepare for exam and I took exam, but I don't think it was an accident because nothing in life is an accident. Or if it's an accident, it becomes not an accident. So that's, that's basically how it all started.

But you were very gifted, you know, anything you do, it just happens. It's not just by chance, but I think you had a quality of being a musician, professional musician, right?

Yes. And I loved music. I loved it. It's not that I didn't like it or anything. I was just interested in a lot of other things and it was hard to choose. And, um, you know, once I, you know, I'm in Juilliard and I have— then I started practicing hard and being on the way of being a professional musician.

Now, so before your IT era, this pre-IT era, so how was it like to be an artist? Were you performing a lot? I know you've performed at Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center, But did it happen after you came back? Oh, really?

Yes. What happened while, uh, right now, and when I spoke to people, even when I was very, very young, people thought I'm an extrovert and people's person. And, but I'm extremely shy inside and I'm introvert. Like I'm by nature, I guess I'm a scientist maybe. I have a lot of traits in the character, maybe, maybe not in my mind. Also, I heard how difficult it is to be a professional musician, especially for a woman. I always wanted to have family and kids and I didn't want to compromise. I thought it's the most important. I did. And because life for musician is hard. You have a lot. If you have young kids, you have to compromise a lot. And I wanted to be with my children. So I thought, and I knew it in Juilliard when I wasn't married yet. And I, I thought, this life is just not for me. I, it's not, it doesn't suit my personality. And that's not what's important. Important is to go to the depths of how things work and why, what is God, why people believe in God. You know, I was very philosoph— I'm still very philosophical. Why people believe in many gods, what, you know, it's stuff like this was always interesting. So I thought it's kind of superficial to be a performing artist in a way. It's super, it can be superficial.

Yeah. Yeah.

Very, very political. Like, so it's not for me. It's not my personality. That's it. So I said, oh, okay. So my mother said, you know what? Just be a music teacher. Everything will be fine. But it never happened because while pursuing, um, EDD at Columbia, I already was married and I was already pregnant with my daughter, so I could never finish it. And then some other things happened, a lot of things happened in my life which I cannot discuss and there is no time to discuss. So I had to get a job to support my family. And I always was interested in programming because it was a new field and I saw, read about it and said, oh, it would be so interesting to do the programming. What is it? So everybody's said, you know what, for a good job, just take a course and see how you like it. And I loved it. So I did my EdD in Columbia at the same time doing computer programming course at Empire Technical School, being pregnant at the same time with my first child. That was tough year. So after my daughter was born, I decided not to ever go back to Colombia and my mother warned me, if you don't go back now, it would never happen. She was right. And then, you know, it was, life was very difficult. And then I had to get a job, another job. That's how I, um, I said, oh, but I took this computer programming course because I really loved it and I thought it would be good for me. So I took another course and I got job in ideal company, MetLife. Which had two Steinway grands in both buildings. One of my students, and I, I give a couple of private lessons all the time because I have to, to make ends meet somehow. And he told me, oh, there are two Steinway grands and I practice there. So that was an ideal job for me because I did programming, which I happened to love, and I was very good at it. I practiced during lunchtime.

But were you really able to practice there?

Yeah, because during lunchtime, instead of eating, I was— I would go the whole— there are two concert halls with two concert Steinway grands.

Oh my goodness. Yeah.

In each of the buildings. I don't know if it's still there because it was so many years ago. So during— yeah, my student told me, you know what, I work at this place and I practice there. So I said, oh my God, this would be an ideal job for me. So I applied and I got in after my computer programming course. So during lunch, I was practicing on Steinway Grand in each of the buildings. They have like beautiful concert halls in each building. And it was a dream job. I gave concerts there. So I always practiced. Then I came home and I continued practice maybe a little bit. I was so tired. It was closed eyes. My child was like screaming and, you know, young child, but I practiced every single day, kept in shape more or less as much as I could. And that was an ideal job. I consider myself so lucky with this. And then I was very good in programming because I love that stuff. So I got a big promotion and presidential award or something. I wanted to do something more challenging. So I'm gonna go to the brokerage. It's more challenging. I was so stupid. So, oh, it's more challenging. It's more interesting. I get bored here. They called it country club, MetLife. I don't know how it is now, but that's how they call it, country club job. I got very good job at Merrill Lynch, which, uh, very demanding. And, um, so I was, that's funny because during lunch I was asking everybody, where's the grand piano? They had the two Steinways at MetLife. So I thought, I thought every company has a grand piano. There are no grand pianos on Wall Street. So I was so devastated. I started going during lunch. I started visiting all these companies and asking if they have grand pianos. I was so naive. They looked at me like I'm from the moon. So when, when, like after a couple of weeks, I thought, oh my God, I made a mistake. I should have stayed at MetLife, but I can't go back now. You know, how, what should I do?

Blah, blah, blah.

And then I got a big promotion and yeah, you became vice president, right? No, that, that I got, that was a little bit later, but I got like higher level and, you know, I could support my family now. It was so good. So I said, okay, I'll practice at home. So. Every single day. I had a lot of overtime because in brokerage it was, um, you know, you have to put a lot of overtime. It's very demanding. I came home and with closed eyes sometimes, even before I eat or anything, I would practice. I would, and, um, I told both, I called Sasha Gorodnitsky, my teacher, and Nadia Reismann, who was whom I studied also. She's, she was amazing. Oh, I love this woman. They both told me the same thing. They told me, never give up, practice as much as you can, preferably every day. You never know what might happen. And if nothing will happen, this would satisfy you. Never give up. That was the best advice I ever had. So I practiced every day, sometimes like with closed eyes. I couldn't move sometimes 10 minutes and then I would just fall asleep by the piano. Every day. And this way I kept kind of in shape and I was learning new repertoire. My repertoire is now very big because of that.

Wow.

So I never gave up and I didn't take away, I felt a little bit guilty in the beginning. Then I had a second child also, but my kids love music and I think it's healing and it's good for them. And I taught them a little bit, which I didn't want them ever to become professional after what I was through. And I kept in shape.

So that's an amazing story to be able to do that. And you did that little by little, you know, because piano repertoire is so much like expansive amount, extensive amount of piano literature we deal with. And I get overwhelmed, you know, oh my gosh, I don't know where to start today. Right. But to be able to encourage yourself to little by little, even the bite size, you know, you kept going. That is a true testament to your dedication and passion.

Thank you. This was more kind of a necessity, you know, physical and emotional. And it was very healing after, you know, uh, office politics. It's terrible. Everybody talks about it. It was my character. I just couldn't take it. You know, if I would have some other, uh, stamina towards this, I would go very, very high in corporate because I was, I had very good men. They told me I have very good management capabilities and I was very good technically and I love, love technical stuff. But I said, that's as far as I go because, uh, you know, I just can't stand everything what goes on. And, you know, in office it's, it's not my, You know, I don't want to get it topical.

Sure. Any, any industry has this politics, right?

Especially at that time in computer industry, it was, I don't know how it's now. Uh, but it was said, so I got a VP and said, after this, I can't go any farther. It's not for my character. I got a lot, you know, I should write a book one day, what I went through there, but I enjoyed actually dealing with people and working. So music was kind of healing. So I come home, and if not for music, I probably wouldn't survive this office life. It's not for my character. So it was a necessity, more of a necessity. And, you know, I kept learning new repertoire, and that's— that's— I, I never planned to come back. I didn't think it's physically or logically possible. I never heard of anyone coming back. Usually people try career, they either succeed or fail and they take another job. For me, it was, I, I, I even never tried because I thought it's not for me. I took another job, which I was very successful at, I think. And then I came back and as if nothing happened and I started going like by milestones. So, um, I, I'm very grateful for my teachers. If they wouldn't tell me practice every day, no matter what, I would never be here.

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Oh, but did some of the practice sessions was really intense so that you, that's why you were able to sustain or prolong this piano technique or skills?

That's a very good question. What I did, you know, music and art, if you have inclination, you can always do it in your soul and your head, right? You can study and feel it. But to be an artist, whether you're a painter or ballet dancer or a musician, you have to have technique. So without it, we cannot express ourselves. If I want to express something, I have to be able to have— I'm not a writer, so I would probably explain it now much nicer. So now I'm in search for words. This is an example how when you try to play and you have it in your soul, you can't play because you don't have technique. Technique. So my teachers, both Sasha Garadnitsky and Nigel Eisenberg, they told me, you have to do technique every day. Music you can do in your head or just listen when you're relaxing. So every day I was playing actually a scale because, uh, not exercises. I played Études by Liszt and Chopin. So, and then I played some other technical parts from other pieces. This way I could learn repertoire. And do technique at the same time. But that's, that's how I kept learning new stuff and keeping my technique and even improving in a very short amount of time. And also I have kind of natural, um, technique. They told me when I was little that I did, I never practiced much at all. So that helped a lot.

That's amazing. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm sorry. Also I practice a lot in my head even now. I can't play for many hours because it's so intense. I'm just emotionally get exhausted. It's— and I teach my students who tell, who say, oh, we have so much schoolwork and so many extracurricular activities. I don't have time to practice. So I said, okay, practice. And I give them very nice pieces with hard practice. If you don't want to practice exercises, practice hard places from the pieces. And then listen to this music, listen to other music, practice in your head. And it helps a lot because if you have technique and you know how to do, and you have, um, a plan in your head, like, you know, what's coming next and emotionally you're prepared, you just combine everything together and you don't have to sit and repeat a lot of stuff. Like I'm against in my teaching and, um, Sasha Grinitsky would never— some good teachers. They would never say, oh, repeat this passage 20 times. I would never do this. If you need to, yes. But if you come to a point that either you are tired or, or you achieve a level, you stop. I mean, I'm sure a lot of teachers teach this, but a lot don't. So I'm against mindless repetition. And when I teach, um, my students, I give them very interesting exercises or pieces which sound good so that they have to combine music together with technique. So they, they're never bored. They love— all my students love scales. They love Czerny. They love all the— because I teach them in an interesting way. And at the same time, it develops their musicality. I'm against repetition. Sometimes you need to repeat, but A lot of teachers, like, it's unnecessary from, from my point of view because it worked for me. Maybe it doesn't work for someone else, but it works for me and my students.

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And 2008 happened. That's when you decided to take the package and leave the company, right? So I'm really making this story so simple, but let's talk about this post-2008 era. So I feel like I'm talking about Taylor Swift, you know, she has era. So anyway, you mentioned, but coming back to the world of music after years in completely different field must have felt like stepping into uncharted territory again. Or maybe, well, you may feel like, oh, this feels so familiar, let's do this. Or, but either way, what was the biggest challenge you faced in reestablishing yourself as a concert pianist? Or did it happen sort of naturally?

It happened sort of naturally. I didn't plan it. I didn't expect it ever to happen because I know how hard it is to build career. It's planning with a lot of money, with sponsors, which I never had. Uh, so it's unthinkable. I would never think that it would happen. I just did whatever I felt like. Uh, I felt like making music. I started enjoying teaching. So much, although I, you know, I taught while I was in Juilliard and I taught piano minor, but you know, with maturity, when you have your own kids and stuff with age, you start seeing teaching as just communication with human beings. It's all about life, about experiences, about how to express yourself. And I really enjoyed it and I started playing. So it happened spontaneously. I didn't plan it. And then, you know, the one concert opportunity here, the other concert. So, okay, of course I'm not prepared. I always think that I'm underprepared, but I'll take it. What's the least they can— they cannot fire me. Like in my religion, I was afraid they can fire me. Here, what they can do, fire me? So I was taking like steps one after another. One led to another. Then these recordings came out. And I had this beautiful, sensational reviews, so many on each recording. I couldn't believe it. And say, oh my God, this is really good. But, you know, maybe it's fate, but, you know, everything has its purpose. I think because I'm not talking about a lot of things what happened in my life, but all the trials and tribulations that happen to people, We can convert to something productive instead of being depressed or some, God forbid, commit suicide or do something bad or starting hating life, hating people. You can convert it to something much bigger and beautiful because now you have all these life experiences, which you can share through the art, through the emotions with other people. And it can help them to see things in a different way because I'm inherently optimistic, no matter I don't know what, maybe it's, I mean, I inherited it from my father, but whatever it is, it helped me a lot. And I hope that my music, you know, the vibes that come from every artist, maybe it helps heal other people, maybe subconsciously. So, because it did heal me, music healed me, music helped me. I never planned on that. What happened after I quit Merrill Lynch? And I teach my students. I, you know, it helped me to teach my students. And sometimes they come to me depressed. They tell me stories which would never tell their parents. And I can help them because I love psychology. I studied it too a lot. And that's all about communication and helping people. I never thought of music as being a good career, especially for a woman, with influence from my parents, of course. But I think just by good intentions and bringing life to life, beauty and what you have inside, trying to survive and help other people, it can help anybody's career in any field in unknown ways. Because it's all about energy. Everything is energy, right?

Right.

You just put this energy in, you channel it in a different way. So I never tried to build a career, but it built kind of by itself. When I read my resume, I say, oh my God, did I do It happened because I just tried to do the best I can under the circumstances, just to survive and be safe. So, um, that's what I teach actually my students. You say you, you don't want to do this, it's too hard piece, or you don't want to go to this company, it's too— just try, do the best you can. And they do the best they can.

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Everything falls into place with them.

So your concert pianist career started in 2008, like traveling, traveling around. And because I've seen you, I mean, you not only in New York metropolitan area, but also you travel to Europe and perform too. So can you tell us where you've been and then what pieces you've, you've been performing?

Actually, it's traveling to Europe started even before COVID I, I went to Vienna in 2014. Um, there is a very good, um, competition, Golden Key, but they also have other branches. So a couple of my students went to the summer academy there and they performed. I had some of my students who are so brilliant and are, I actually can study from them. And they said, it's very nice. It's very good. So I decided to go just because I love to travel and, you know, it's, I never had a lot of opportunity to travel. So I said, okay, maybe I should go and see how it is. And so I suggested, oh, maybe I can play a recital there. I prepare a recital, um, Schubert Wanderer Fantasy and Chopin Four Ballades. And that's how it all started in 2014. I went to Vienna, I played concert very successfully. I loved it. Then I went to France to the festival. They actually invited me. They found me. Wow. Yeah, this composer, she studied with Sasha Grunitsky, my teacher, but already after I graduated, she found my videos on YouTube. She contacted me, she said, you have to come to my festival. I thought she was kidding. She was not. And that's how the whole thing started. So last year I went to Rome and then I was in Vienna and it was beautiful. So I will plan more trips. The problem with performing, I can see it because when we want to practice and learn new repertoire and keeping the old repertoire alive and perform, then it occupies almost all time because it's just sheer notes. Because I play everything by memory and as a lot of musicians are, because sometimes you can play this music, right? On the concert. And it's now, it's more widely acceptable. But when you have all this virtuoso pieces with all these jumps and everything, how can you look in? So I have to learn everything by memory because most of my repertoire is like that. The reason why this is in parentheses, why I play a lot of virtuoso, because when I was practicing while I was a programmer, I used to choose hard pieces because I thought if I play hard pieces, I can play easier. So that's why I have this virtuoso repertoire. So it becomes very intense. Like if I want to do a couple of programs at the same time, um, it's, it's like real professional, purely performing musicians on a very high level. All they do, they just perform and travel around, but they did it all their life. They didn't have 23 years in computer technology. So they have all this repertoire up their sleeve and I don't. I have big repertoire, but not on the level of Evgeny Kisin, for example. Right. Uh, so I have to pick and choose. And when I, um, I could have a lot of concerts if I want, I could travel around all the time, which I enjoy because I love exploring different cultures. I just love that. But I choose to build my repertoire. I choose to perfect each piece. I like to record what I learn and I like to also to pace myself because I don't want to become like I call piano machine. Because in a way, if you think about it, not only pianists, any, any performing musician or a dancer, or if you want to become like, go very, very far in that field, you have to have a lot of pieces, a lot of repertoire. You have to have a lot of collaborations and it occupies all your time because there is only 24 hours in a day and you have to live your life. You have to eat, you have to shower, right? It's so at this point in my life, I don't aspire to be a performing traveler musician like Yuja Wang or somebody, you know, because all my life I didn't prepare for this. And I have different purpose in life. For me, it's just learning about life, making it better, and helping people in any way possible, not only through music. So I have a different level of expectations and aspirations in life. Uh, so that's why I don't try to travel a lot or give a lot of concerts. I just do as much as I can. And I pace myself because my family comes first, my friends, you know, and also I like to learn a lot of stuff. I like to read a lot. I want to just enjoy life because everything is relative. For example, when I learn, I learn very, very fast and I have photographic memory. So, okay, I learned this like 5 piano concertos. I contact some orchestras, you know, I play. Suppose I have a lot of money to hire a good orchestra. So what? So I recorded this like 10 concerti or traveled all over the world. So will I have this satisfaction from it? Because I'm at my age, I'm not revealing my age, but you can guess probably. I am at the point, but what is life is all about? Is it about notoriety? What is notoriety? What is achievement? Everything is relative. So achievement is very personal. If somebody has like a lot of awards, which I do actually, but if somebody has like a lot of, you know, competitions, so what does it, what will it give me as a person? It's all empty, right? For me, it's more going into understanding life. What is more important? And it's not just words, it's how I feel. I mean, we were taught in school that, but that's my feeling. What makes us happy? If I play like 100 more concerts with the best orchestras and again, it wouldn't make me happy. What makes me happy? Sometimes everybody knows, sometimes it's like a quiet moment or sunrise or looking at the ocean, right? It's very hard to pinpoint what makes us happy. I know what will make me happy. It's to being one with nature, one with life, in a special harmony when you're actually hearing music while you're doing something else. And especially communicating with other people and being on one way with them and helping people in different ways. That's why I wanted to be a holistic healer at some point. So for me, it's different. For me, it's not amount of concerts or whatever. I just do it because I know music can heal. So that's for that purpose. So that's basically it. Uh, I don't strive to, to, for more notoriety or something. I just try to do at this point in my life, what makes me happy and what is good for my friends and family and everybody else, because we're all in this together.

That's beautiful. Now, relationship to music. Pre-IT era and post-2008. I want to know, did it change or is it the same?

I started appreciating music much better and deeper than I did, uh, pre-IT era. Because when, when I was a child, it came, everything came so naturally. I had perfect pitch. I didn't have to practice, like natural technique, whatever. So I didn't appreciate it. It just came very easy. I enjoyed it, but it was one of my other stuff that I did. I like to do so many other things. So, and when I got to Juilliard, I always thought it's by accident because I didn't really practice much. And everything else came to me easy there too. And then I decided not to become a professional pianist because I hated politics and I heard what's going on. I said, it's against my nature. I just. I can't deal with it. But when I took programming, which I really loved, I started missing music a lot. And I said, you know what? I'm a real artist. I'm a musician because I cannot live without it. Although I love different kinds, I love paintings, I love sculpture, you know, different. I love ballet, you know, all kinds of literature, poetry. Music is the best because it's, as we know, it's abstract. It can express everything. It's It's, um, and I'm trained. So I literally couldn't live without it. I had like, after my office work, sometimes I could come home at 9 o'clock in the evening. I would practice with Klaus Weiss. Only then I started appreciating music. So I think everything for the purpose, for me to go into this programming field was to open my eyes how art is important and how music is important to me. So now when I'm back miraculously for many years now, I'm back into music. I look upon everything differently. I appreciate it much more. Every time I have opportunity to practice and I do have more opportunity because I don't have full-time job. I'm very grateful for it. I got a lot of, uh, this gratitude. I got the feeling of gratitude for everything I do. We should appreciate every moment. What we— because everything might change. We know how many unfortunes in the world, you know, what's going on everywhere. Every time we have a moment of happiness or opportunity to do something, we have to have this feeling of gratitude and happiness. And for me, that's everything what person can wish for, because I didn't have it when I was younger. I just didn't have enough experience. But now with all this experience, I'm just grateful for being able to do what I do.

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Our discussion got so deep, so let's just lighten things up. By talk about your extensive discography. Wow, I didn't realize this recording artist career came post-2008 for you, which— yeah. And then you released 11 solo albums from 2010 to 2013— uh, '23, which means this new album, Album Leaf, is your 12th, or that's the 11th? 11th.

Yeah, I started my first album I released because my, my good friend from Juilliard, her husband I had the recording studio. She said, why don't you record? I said, I don't have anything to record. She said, record something, see how it sounds. So I recorded it. And then after a year I said, oh, maybe I should distribute it. Uh, so I, I went, um, I, I started distributing and then it started getting so such good reviews. I couldn't believe it. So the next year I released this whole list album. It was to list by Centennial. And then every year I said, Oh, I have such a good repertoire. Let me just release one album after another. So right now I'm trying to learn new repertoire for another album, but because I'm involved in other stuff, it will probably take a little bit longer because now I'm playing more concerts than I used to. So, and it requires time to prepare for concert too, you know, not only do recordings. So I will just continue to do it. I'm working maybe all Schumann in a couple of years because I already did all Schumann Carnival and Fantasy, which very beautiful. I got very, very good reviews from that.

Fantasy is so difficult.

Yeah. But while I'm learning, because now I'm at the point that I have to actually learn new pieces because I, um, all this repertoire, I recorded a huge amount of this hard repertoire, but I still have, I'm still learning new pieces. But I have to perform at the same time and also I'm teaching, so I cannot dedicate my whole time to recording. And when I record, I don't record with music. I have to play everything by memory. I mean, from my point of view, when I memorize the piece, I have much more freedom. It's— I feel much more secure. My interpretation is better. I can really unchain myself. So for me to record the piece, I have to remember at least 1 hour of repertoire by memory, and it takes time. So I did all Mendelssohn recording. Next would be probably all Schumann or some romantic, selected romantic piece. I have to think about the scene, how, how to do it, because I, I have a lot of repertoire. I just have to add new pieces and I can have to keep learning. That's basically it. And I also did some collaborations, singles, I did a couple of singles. I don't know if—

Yes, I've seen it. There was one with a Grammy Award-winning artist and it was like a blend of Schubert.

Yeah, it was a single. It's very unusual. And I love that kind of work because you blend different cultures with it, like some Indian instruments. I did all the edit, you know, we did all editing together and, you know, musical evaluation and everything. And there was a lot of improvisation involved, which I love. That was very successful. So I actually, this was played on classical radio stations, on WMNR and WWFM. Uh, and I even had interview for, for those pieces on WWFM. And everybody loves this blend of, uh, but that's, that's where probably we should go. You know, it's, it's so good because Classical music, everybody says, oh, classical music is dying. I don't believe so because diamond cannot be destroyed. It might become very small or unseen, but diamonds never get destroyed. This is figuratively speaking. So I think maybe my purpose in musical life is to preserve classical legacy because there's getting less and less of us musicians, right? Uh, classical— like, if you look, for example, I looked at the Sirius XM station. All of the channels are everything else. Classical is one or two, and it's blended with jazz. This is unbelievable. And the legacy of classical music is huge. You cannot compare. I mean, I'm not saying that this is better or worse than rap or something else, but it's much more because it, it— so many centuries of culture and music. So, and it's all like in one station or two stations. This is unbelievable. So I would love to preserve that legacy, but don't look at it as legacy because people think, oh, Bach, Mozart, this is beautiful, but it's so boring. But once they listen to it, they, they get mesmerized. Like for example, when sometimes I practice with open windows and people go crazy, like on street, you know, kids playing this stuff. Um, and sometimes I play for people who don't have any exposure to classical music. Classical, I mean, not only classical period, I mean Romantic, Impressionists, you know. They astounded. Like, like I remember I played, uh, I think Scriabin, you know, this, uh, etude. I was warming up at MetLife. One guy came, programmer, a consultant. He came down, he listens to it. I didn't, I didn't know. He went nuts. He started jumping. He says, I never heard anything like this in my life. Play it again and again and again. And because people who are not exposed, they just don't know what they're missing. And the problem with classical music, not because it's boring or it's too sophisticated, whatever, it's beautiful. Forget about it. Counterpoint or sophistication. It's beautiful. It goes to the heart. Or even modern music, you know, it's so involved and interesting. It's— it just gets unnoticed because it's not popularized anymore. Like, it's all commercialized, right? Because whatever suits the most people, whatever easier they play, because it earns money. So that's why I stick with classical music. I mean, real. And I try to reach people whom I can reach, just to extend the influence. And it's very successful because this music is quality. It's so beautiful. It's not because it's boring or old people don't like it. It's because they don't know it.

I know. Yes.

You know, so maybe it's everybody, you know, before we tried to play everything new, you know, new, new, new, new, new. Uh, but now we have to go back so this legacy doesn't get destroyed because it's the basis and it's, it's a treasure. So more and more with years past since I came back to music, I think my purpose is more and more, uh, just to preserve, enrich that life with this treasure that I believe would never get lost, but it gets diminished. I believe that people get more open to classical music, it would really enrich them and they can look at life in a different way from what they see now. You know, all beautiful melodies instead of like pumping, pumping, almost every— not to diminish Tristram or anything, but they miss this so much. And it's not— they— everybody loves it from no matter from which age or culture when they listen to a correct piece. From classical music, they all love it. They're just not exposed to it.

Yes.

But there are some pieces that appeal to emotions or, or more simple that appeals to a lot of people. And we can start with that.

And which you've been doing by creating this wonderful YouTube channel. And I watched a lot of videos and it really features beautifully produced video clips of your performances and even during your rehearsals with high-quality editing. And do you handle the production or editing yourself, or do you collaborate with a team to achieve that professional?

I hate to say it, but a lot of— most of the videos, I mean, all of them are non-professional except the ones that were done in WQXR. Especially for the past couple of years, I have a person who helps me, but also non-professional and with non-professional cameras or anything. But before it was done, not with phones, but just like stand-out camera without any external microphones, nothing, just live performance without any editing. So I am amazed at the quality, the quality of sound. It's so good. Um, except At NJIT, when I played for David DuBalle, I have a bunch of videos. They were done by my recording engineer with professional video cameras, but also without editing. It was just— I mean, I'm lucky that I play pretty clean. So even if it's like, it's not many wrong notes. And if there, it's, it's, um, I mean, I'm able to publish it. So I'm very liking this. So the only really professional videos I had, it's from WQXR, totally unedited. It was just for, from that Chopin marathon. And, and that, um, Mariko from NJT. The other one, I had some people helping me, but they're non-professionals. I mean, it's just like pure playing. But you know what, in a way I prefer it because it's more spontaneous. It shows you like it's more human.

Right. Yeah. And it's not super edited. So yeah, it has that sort of vibe to it. Right.

Yeah. But lately I have a lot of help. You know, I'm very grateful.

Yeah. But you're doing it like, you know, like you're reaching out to audience in such a modern way. Right? Because posting YouTube takes a lot of effort too, to manage recording and editing, even though if you have the helper, but it just takes a lot on you. But you're doing it and then you have such a big follower. I think 4,000 followers or something.

Yeah, I think.

Yeah.

I'm surprised because I don't do You know, you can do promotions and I don't do any of this. So I don't, I don't know, maybe they, you know what, I think they just like the music. I try actually to choose repertoire that appeals to, to many levels, like cultures and many levels of musical understanding. For example, uh, I love Hammerklavier, um, Hammerklavier, right? Sonata. If I would record Hammerklavier and put it on YouTube, the full length, I would get a lot of classical music lovers, but it wouldn't appeal. People will just tune out the, so say, regular people. But if I put Chopin ballad or something, it would attract more people. And then once they get attracted, then I can do Hammerklavier. My purpose is to do something in the middle, to attract, play very serious pieces, uh, like Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy, you know, it's a serious piece. But it appeals to both sides. Uh, so, and, and once they get sucked in, so to say, then their mind gets open to more, more complicated, more, um, more involved classically. So we have to really understand it because we have— I'm not saying that we are trying to save classical music. I don't think it has to be saved. It just has to be to have more exposure, more exposure. We have to, to do it, uh, in a more popular way, like Moonlight Sonata, for example. So once they listen to the first, first movement of Moonlight Sonata, and then you play, uh, the rest of it, then they get more open mind and then they get deeper and deeper into actual core of classical repertoire. So that's my purpose because I want to expose everyone to, because it's so beautiful and it's not that hard to understand. Classical music is like— they call it pointy-headed. That's not true, you know. Even the Bach, you know, multi-voice, it's so beautiful. Forget about how many voices and which, which goes where. Just listen. People are just not exposed to it because you don't hear it on the radio that much.

So to all our incredible listeners out there, please check out Sofia's YouTube channel @SophiaGuranovic. You can also find the link in the show notes. And also, if you are interested in listening to her, uh, albums, they are all available on music streaming services like Spotify, iTunes, and so on. So, uh, or you can go to her website at sophiaguranovic.com and enjoy listening to her performances.

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You are also recognized as a Steinway Top Teacher Award recipient, which highlights your dedication as an educator, and you've mentored many students who have gone on to prestigious institutions like Juilliard. And what would you say is the most important lesson or value you hope to pass on to your students?

The most important value is not even about music or practicing or technique, or it's about how you react to life situations. I mean, it sounds very philosophical, but that's basically what it is. It's, I think it's more practical than philosophical because music is a reflection of life, right? And when you practice, you actually deal with energies which, uh, reflect life's energy. And also it's a lot, a lot of emotions, right? A lot of emotions that you go through. And by expressing these emotions, you deal with it. You know, like in, uh, in psychiatrist's office, first thing you have to talk about it and they put you I never went to, but from the movies, they, you are in a half sleep and then you hypnotize and then you talk about it. It's just for opening up, analyzing it. And music does just that. Music is extremely healing. So for my students, and I'm teaching them how to play the pieces and how to deal with emotions. And then it's very interesting because sometimes I see, I feel that they're not feel good. So, and I momentarily get the vibes, what they feel like, and I can transport them to music. So I pick up a piece that reflects it and I start playing for them. And it's the best healing that you can get. So music is all about psychology and healing and it's an art, but I think it's vital in health and it helps emotionally and emotions help mental state. So that's basically it. Music can be used as a foundation of well-being. We know it, but everybody can do it in their life for themselves. Did—

as someone who has gone through a major career shift, and how do you guide your students who might be struggling with the idea of changing paths or taking risks, for example, like basically following their heart?

You know what? I had a lot of talented students. Uh, I mean, very high level, extremely talented. Some of them wanted to become professional. They came to me specifically to be trained to become professionals and to go on. A lot of them change parents. Their parents change their mind for practical reasons. Some of them became professionals, a lot of them didn't. Almost all of them continue playing. They give lessons also. They started giving lessons to young kids, and all of them continue playing. And some of them, if they had a couple of brilliant students, they took different major in college, they took music as a minor. Uh, one of them was studying with a composer. So everybody, almost as far as I know, almost all of them continue playing in one way or another. And, uh, you know, it's very interesting because sometimes through LinkedIn I get connection from my former students, and they went to different fields like doctors, or they all say that they're playing. Some of them become amateur playing, and they're still playing in concerts, and they some, you know, in jazz bands sometimes. And like almost all of them continuing. This is so rewarding. And of course I have professionals become professionals.

Yeah.

Then how do you help them find the courage to follow their own passions, even if it means stepping into unknown, right? Um, so especially for those who pursue seriously they take piano lessons so seriously, and then in the end they feel like, you know, they want to switch major or they want to switch their career or something. So which means really literally stepping into something that is completely in darkness or unknown.

I just give my example. I said, look, music is always with you, your talent is always with you. You have free time sometimes, you use it with music for different purpose. Music will never leave you. I, I just give you my example. I, I was in the high-level, um, management-level programming level for 23 years. Look what happened. It never left me. So you can do the same thing. This is very simple answer. And also, and also I tell them that music is very healing, so they can use it for emotional healing. And emotions help physical healing, right? They play music in hospitals. So music will be always with them. It's— and, uh, whatever they use it for, it will never leave them. And then I give my example, or you can come back to it when you retire. Uh, that, that's what I teach.

Isn't our guest so inspiring? I'm sure you're enjoying and learning from every bit of this episode, so I need to ask you two things. First, hit that like button on YouTube or subscribe if you are listening on your go-to podcast platform. Then follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and TikTok @ThePianoPod with behind-the-scenes content, episode updates, and more. Stay connected and inspired to celebrate the past, present, and future of classical music. So let's get into even more core of our conversation. What are your thoughts on keeping classical music relevant in this today's fast-paced, technology-driven world?

You know what, I just thought of it. Maybe the problem is that we divide music. Into classical and non-classical, because sometimes people who are not exposed to classical and you tell them, oh, classical music, they automatically think it's boring and dull, and then, or too complicated, or everything together. Just tell them it's, it's just beautiful. It's just music. Relate to it. So first it's, it's the communication and A lot of people think, oh, it happened before. It's not part of our society anymore. That's not true. People are the same. Souls are the same. It's just a different time period. We're all the same. So it's just a matter of friendly exposure, not like some snobby exposure. You know, it's friendly exposure, gentle, not pushing anything. And the problem is also commercialism. It's, I don't blame any people or any cultures. It's always has been this way. You know, people try to sell a product, try it, and whatever people like, they try to sell because they have to make money or something. It's nothing, nothing. I'm not saying anything bad against entrepreneurs or capitalism or something. This is just the way of life always have been. So everything shifted away from classical music because it's normal. Classical— I don't mean just Bach and Mozart, I mean all classical music, including Impressionists. So everything is shifting because it's normal, because nothing stays the same. So I think it's tempo, and wave goes up, wave goes down, back, but maybe on a different level of a spiral. So not only pretty sure philosophically, I feel it in my bones, that classical music will never die. It will— it's just a wave that goes away a little bit, but then it will come down with even more power because people will start rediscovering it. And the way for them just to hear it and not forget— I don't know how to influence millions, millions of people just with what I'm doing. I can't give like millions of concerts, but we have to do it all the way we can. For example, sometimes parents come, like, call me and say, we want to study jazz, jazz. Or something. I used to say, oh, I don't, I don't do jazz. I just do classical. That was wrong. So you take them, okay, if you want to study, you give them basics, then you give them Bach, then you give them Mozart. I said, oh, you're not ready for it. Just take them then and give them a little Chopin. And then they hooked, then they hooked on it, you know? So it's just the way of exposure. We have to help people to get exposed in a friendly way. Being on their level. The problem is they think classical music is, is so like snobby and different. It's not. So our, our, we have to tell them, this is, this is you, this is part who you are. You just never discovered it yet. That's the only way. And I, I firmly believe it will never die. If anything, it will come back with the vengeance because it's such a treasure. And maybe now it's just hibernating, but it grows, you know, and then it will just explode. It's just the way of life. Everything goes up and down. It'll never die. So we just have to promote it in a friendly way. That's all. On a level with people.

Now, how do you see the role of classical musicians in contributing to society, especially during times of change? What's the responsibility we have? Do we have in the society, you think?

There is no— from logically and from my point of view, there should be no difference between— music is music. It's all notes. It's between the quality and concentration of those notes. So maybe classical music, some of it is very sophisticated, but you know, I mean, it's no secret that all education in schools go down and down, right? You know what's going on in schools. It goes worse and worse and worse because They try to cater instead of helping students, you know, like underperforming, they try to go to their level just to please them. I don't know. I don't want to get into politics. I, you know, I don't want to do it. It's just the fact. So same thing comes with music.

Okay.

It's too sophisticated. It's, uh, you know, people will not understand it. No, it is not. Start with simple music. Everybody loves it. You know, kids love classical music. Uh, it's in, it's in our bones. We're all the same. We have the same structure. It's all about psychology. Never politicize music. Uh, I hate, you know, people politicize music. This is this, we have to play more of this composer. This is ridiculous. You play what you like. You expose to people to what their soul goes to. Sometimes you have people from completely different culture. They would love Mozart or some people would love Chopin, never heard about it. They go crazy when they hear it. It's all universal. So just do it, forget about, you know, levels or whatever, just do whatever suits. But what we have to do, you know, very, maybe not polyphonic pieces, but some pieces with the nice melodies like Mozart, Chopin, they go to every culture, I think every generation, because we're all the same basically, right? We all have the same gene. And just expose people to it without think, oh, this is without borders. So, oh, this is classical, this is this, this is— no, just listen to it. If you like it, you listen. If you want, you transpose it, you do variations in it. That's what I did with Rupam Sarma. You know, you put Schubert, Mozart together, you, you put some other world instruments, you, you know, do some beautiful music. Music is music. I think the borders that we say this is classical, this is not, that's wrong. It doesn't work anymore. Maybe it worked before. Now we have to blend everything. Yeah, because it's not a fight between cultures. We have to blend the cultures.

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Now let's talk about your future. So Looking ahead, what projects or collaborations are you most excited about in the coming years?

Um, I will try again. I would continue to collaborate with maybe different genres because I love this. I love this blending. I want to keep learning the repertoire that I love, which is— I tend to go towards romantic virtuoso mostly just because of my habit when I wasn't a musician. I tried to play the hardest pieces just to squeeze everything in this 10 minutes of practice. And I happen to love very intense emotional pieces. I, I want to learn a little bit more of the mode because there's such beautiful modern music and so much of it. You sometimes don't know where to go when I explore a little bit more, because some of, some of it is like gorgeous. And I love it. And I think I maybe to expose more people to music, quality music, not necessarily just like I said, no borders in classics and just to this blend. So the people would have, like, if you have a little bit of, for example, Indian flavors, more people from India, for example, would try to lean towards it and then they would discover other parts. Like blend everything in a friendly way without borders, just for pure beauty. And don't think that somebody will not understand Beethoven or somebody will not understand Mendelssohn because it's classical. Because music appeals to soul, to emotions first, and then logic comes when you start analyzing it. I mean, all of the classical music, most of it appeals purely to emotions. If we erase the borders and just play for other people, they would just get drawn to it. Forget about Fugues explaining what it is all about, because a lot of people think, oh, it's too complicated, it's, it's too much, it's boring, it's too long. No, it's not. Start like with simple pieces which appeals to the soul. Music is universal. Just don't neglect it. Don't say, oh, classical music is, you know, just keep doing.

Now you are still very young, but reflecting on your journey, what legacy do you hope to leave behind for future generations of musicians?

I would say my recordings, they're not perfect because I don't do it— I like this freshness of approach, you know, and spontaneous. I don't do many, like 3 takes the most. Which is unusual. And it has very good repertoire, which I think appeals to every culture and every taste. I would love to give more concerts and record them because nothing can match a real life performance. Thank God, you know, technology a lot works with us. We say, oh, art and technology, you know, mutually exclusive. No, now we, we know how to combine art and technology. We should look more into technology to help us. Me coming from, you know, technology background, you know, that's— I'm not just saying because of that, because technology can really help us. So I would like to do maybe more videos, you know, from live concerts. And maybe when I get older, really old and feeble, I will not be able to— maybe I should start writing books. You know, put all the thoughts. So to leave legacy this way, and of course, continuing teaching because teaching is very, I found it very, very rewarding when I came back to it, because some of my students said that they, they have a lot of private students and they became professional musicians and it's, it's such a rewarding field. So that, that's, I think will be my, my legacy, I hope. And the main thing. We should believe in, maybe I sound naive, but good energy, light, love, because this is positive and that's what gives life. Negative is just the absence of light. So I believe that it's not only about the music and everything, it's about life itself. And music helps us to influence and understand it because it's a pure energy.

Well, thank you, Sophia. So your journey has been nothing short of extraordinary. I really mean it. And navigating different careers and embracing new challenges and, you know, life throws things at you many times, but you pick up yourself again and do what's required in front of us. And so ultimately returning to your passion for music with renewed energy. What a story. But what advice would you give to someone who feels it's too late to start something? It's too late to reconnect with a passion they once had.

I would say then time is relative. What is too late? Why it's too late? Why do you think it's too late? What are you trying to achieve? If you start taking lessons at 50 years old, why are you, you wanna start learning something. You want to play at Carnegie Hall in 5 years? It's impossible even for a young person, younger person. What is your purpose? If you have an energy and will and you have a need to do something, just do it. Forget about everything else is relative. All the results are relative. Who's the best piano virtuoso? Oh, you know, they said, oh, Horowitz, Langlach, you know, it's a matter of taste. Everything is relative. You do what your soul, what your feelings tell you to do. Just do it and see where it leads you. Maybe it will just make you happy. It's not the result that counts, it's the journey. You know, it's a famous saying, I don't know who said it, but everybody said it. So if it heals you, if it makes you happier, if it makes people around you happier, just do it.

Well, thank you. This has been such an inspiring And fun conversation, Sophia. And but before I let you go, we have one more thing to do. It's called The Piano Pod with rapid-fire questions. I didn't explain this to you. This is part of the show where I get to ask fun questions to each guest. Now here's a little twist. As silly as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who you truly are. So ready or not, let's just do it.

Okay.

Oh, it's fun. Promise. So question number 1, what is your comfort food?

Chocolate.

Great.

Oh, predictable. Probably.

It's great. How do you like your coffee in the morning?

With milk.

Cats or dogs?

Both.

Sunrise or sunset?

Both. Because everything, it both have similar energy, but complements each other.

Yes, makes sense. Now, summer or winter?

Summer.

What skill have you always wanted to learn but haven't had a chance to?

Well, I always wanted to be a ballet dancer.

What is your word or words to live by?

It's love and beauty. It's— I think it's interchangeable, actually.

What is the most important quality you look for in other people? Compassion. Name 3 people— this is hard— name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead.

Well, I would say my parents, um, my teacher, and, uh, so many composers I can't even name them.

Okay, that's great. That's 3. Wonderful. Now name one piece in your current playlist?

Schumann Fantasy.

Great. Do you have any particular pianist that you listen to, or—

No, I— yeah, some I, I listen to a lot, and sometimes there is somebody unknown or young and they play some piece or some part of so beautifully, you know, it's— I, I, I, I can't name.

Okay.

Of course I loved old masters a lot, and Horowitz Schubert, some of the young ones, but, uh, you know, it's unpredictable.

And your recording of Fantasy is so beautiful too. Now, last question, fill in the blank please: music is blank.

Music is love.

Beautiful. So this wraps up this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. Thank you, Sofia, for joining us today and sharing your beautiful stories, insights, and expertise once again to our wonderful audience. You can learn more about Sophia and her amazing work through her website at sophiagranovich.com. You can also find her and follow her on social media. All the links are in the show notes. Thank you to our faithful fans and listeners for tuning in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate, review it on your go-to podcast platform, and please remember to hit that thumbs up button and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Follow The Piano Pod on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. Thank you, Sofia.

Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to talk to you. I really enjoyed it.

Oh, I really enjoyed it too, Sofia.

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