Becoming a CFO through FP&A With Bonnie Tomei

What do you believe CEOs are looking for?

In my experience, CEO generally are looking for a partner. But I would have to say if you're a great candidate, a lot of times folks are looking for really good people. Yeah, of course I don't believe the AI is going to take the job of anybody who's got a mind of their own and be able to take a look at a great FP and A should be able to figure out what is the roadmap for the company financially to achieve what it wants to achieve.

When you became a first time cfo, what was the hardest part of start for you?

I have to say I was pretty disappointed as auditors at that time. Clients didn't really want to talk to us. There are certain things that we also do is if they need it today, I do it today. If they need it tomorrow, I'll do it today. Anyway, unfortunately, another month that we don't have revenue is another month of operating expenses invested to drive to that revenue.

How we be more strategic as FPA professionals?

I think a couple of things. One is you foreign.

Hello everyone. Welcome to FP&A tomorrow. I am your host Paul Barnhurst and we're thrilled to have you here with us where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. Each week we are joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us manage today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting your journey in FP&A, this show has something for everyone this week. I'm thrilled to welcome to the show Bonnie Tomead. Bonnie, welcome to the show.

Hi everybody. Nice to be here.

Very excited to have you. So let me start by just giving a little bit of background. She's coming to us from the Bay Area. She's currently serving as a CFO of Salience Lab. She's working as a Chief Strategy officer for an angel investing platform and, you know, a few other things. But on top of that, she was most recently before these assignments working as the CFO of a publicly traded company on the Toronto stock exchange named Spectra7, where she was voted woman CFO of the year for the smaller public company category by FEI Silicon Valley. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what all you've been up to since leaving Spectre 7.

Yeah, unfortunately about six months ago I left Spectra 7 because of a family medical situation and since then I was obviously needing a lot of Stimulation. So I signed up with a number of companies to help them out in different strategic objectives. And so K2X is an angel investing platform. I'm their Chief Strategy Officer, helping them with an IPO process underway right now. I am also signed up as a CFO for Salience Labs, a photonics company. Of course, semiconductor is my, I guess 20 years of industry that I've been delving into. So I'm right at my wheelhouse and that's what I'm doing. But I'm also being the co chair of CFO Leadership Council, Silicon Valley Chapter. I would like to encourage everybody to participate in some kind of form. Anyway, Paul, that's enough about me. What could I do for you?

I love CFO Leadership Council. I'm a big fan of what they're doing. I know Jack McCulloch and I'm actually speaking at their conference in October in New York.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah, their Finance and Technology expo, I've been working with them on that. So great organization. Glad you're a part of that. So this is one of the questions we like to ask everybody at the start of every interview. Given that the show's about FP and A, I like to ask each of our guests what great FP and A looks like. So if you had to define great FP and A, how would you do that?

Well, Talk about great FA. FP&A is about being great partners to all of our strategic executives and leadership team. And not just, you know, internally driven, but sometimes external. Give an example. A great FP and A should be able to figure out what is the roadmap for the company financially to achieve what it wants to achieve. And that our job in every step of talking with our executive is about helping them achieve what they need to have achieved. And then at the CFO level, of course, we're trying to provide the resources and reallocate and reallocate and reprioritize and reprioritize. And then externally, a lot of times we get a lot of information from our supplier as well as customer. So it's really inwardly facing first and foremost, but also secondarily for FP and A guys to be externally focused.

Great. I really like what you described there, particularly around helping the business achieve the roadmap that they've set out. Right. That helping make sure the financials can support the strategic goals of the business. But do you see any big changes on the horizon for FP&A? Right. We've seen all this AI talk. We've had a ton of uncertainty. You know, FP&A has become much more strategic, I'd say, over the last decade or so. How do you think about it over the next five years? Any big changes you see coming?

Oh, absolutely, tonight. Changes. Those changes are basically driven by software and AI. I don't believe the AI is going to take the job of anybody who's got a mind of their own and be able to take a look at the market and as well as the company and deciphering between the trees and the forest. So I think that the job for FP&A analyst to start with as you're going into the career would be providing, you know, using all of those tools to get a lot more insight and. But what does insights mean? Those insight has to come with experience and a lot of times I think it's going to push our junior people to mature a little faster by providing them with good information. And then folks like us who's been in the industry for many, many, many years don't look at the wrinkles. Is that how we can take all of that we know to kind of shape an AI environment where you can get information quickly in your fingertips into some kind of intelligence? I think that's where it's going to be very exciting and hopefully it will also drive a lot of satisfaction.

I think that's a good point, particularly around the driving satisfaction. If it's able to eliminate the mundane, the routine, the cleaning data, you know, the average person will be really grateful for that. There'll be a few disappointed that don't get to do all that cleaning, but most people will be quite happy. You told us a little bit about your background, but I'd like to ask a question related to that. Can you talk about your career progression? I know you started as a controller, you served as a head of finance, and then ultimately you're a CFO of a public company. So maybe talk a little bit about that career journey that you've had.

I think I would probably start saying that, you know, getting my double, I guess, two, two degrees. One in accounting, one in finance, passing the CPA exam on the first shot and then thinking about how I could help clients, particularly in the audit side. I have to say I was pretty disappointed as auditors at that time. Clients didn't really want to talk to us. They thought that we are adversarial and then went into the consulting realm and really wanted to make an impact. I think that has helped me with that curiosity about what makes something work better. I think the controllership Was pretty easy in coming in and understanding all of the technical application of accounting pronouncement into what actual should look like. And then looking at FP and A side how I could do the planning and therefore helping all of the executive team to achieve what we need to do. Majority of my career has been in public companies and so as we're thinking about being public, the FP and A side really is very important to be able to provide guidance. But if it does not work in step with the accounting side, it's really missing the point about how the report card is being issued on what GAAP earnings per share looks like and all the rest of it. So I see as my progression in looking at where to go is really about getting involved in all aspect of accounting and finance. And then a lot of people don't think about treasury and tax as well as well as compliance. And when you think about all of that is really being able to move yourself around a company and understand in all these different perspective how to fit it all in and therefore preparing me or anybody for that matter to be a better cfo.

Yeah, it sounds like you had a really good robust experience, especially mentioning the audit, the consulting, the controller role and seeing all of that. So I'm curious, was it always your goal to become a CFO or did it just kind of happen as a natural part of your career progression?

I think it's pretty natural to get there. I think. You know, a couple other things that may not be coming natural to anyone is to think strategically. This word strategic means a lot of things to a lot of people, but strategically for any company is about how to get things done faster and achieving those goals. For example, M and A probably done about two dozen transactions and it comes with due diligence and understanding how to read a company quickly and then thinking about systems process, you know, the objective of the company, are we trying to get more revenue, are we trying to just acquire a list, you know, a big team and saving on recruiting cost? So when we think about all of that is really getting into the know about what those objectives are and therefore be a part of that. And I think I've been pretty lucky in that because of my, I guess, willingness to be curious to be a part of a team and to drive to excellence. I think a lot of folks have kind of included me in their team in thinking about, well, okay, if these are the strategy, how would we go about doing it? I think to be invited to that, you really ought to be a good. And this is what I said earlier, what does good FP and A look like is to be a partner. And I think that's very, very important.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. You have to be a good part. You can't just be in your spreadsheets anymore. That does doesn't cut it for FP and A as a whole. You gotta be helping the business and guiding. Question you mentioned you've worked on a lot of transactions, M and A. I just have a question I'd like to ask you. What would be the one or two pieces of advice you would give to FP and A departments when M and A activity is going on or certain things they should be looking for or doing particularly? Let's just say if you're looking to acquire versus being acquired. Any advice around what FP&A should be thinking about during those times or focusing on?

Yeah, So I think FP and A team may not necessarily be involved too much with the acquisition process. And when thinking about all those transactions I've had in multiple companies, majority of the times it's being done through a business development team who may have their own analyst. And if they don't, they may be tapping on your shoulder. FP and A team to pull together the model on how this company will add up to a valuation that would make sense for the acquisition cost. And then also focusing on the key strategic about why we wanted to acquire this company. Again, it could be revenue, it could be headcount, it could be a market, you know, capability that we don't have. And all of that would come out to what do we think is going to drive in terms of value and the fba? P and A team may be secondary to the accounting team for the due diligence because then we got to figure out what actually happened in this company. So the FP&A team should be as dialed in as possible and volunteer themselves to pulling those models together and then doing a combination between that company and our company or the acquiring company to see if what the synergy could be and how it could be, you know, taking one plus one equals three. And if in case you're not invited that's okay, volunteer anyway to any aspect that you can be of help.

That's a great point of volunteer if you can and you know, often you'll be tapped to do the model. My last company before I started my own business, I was the one who was tapped to work with Cortev on a couple of different models. I remember doing all that they had. You know, we had a corp Dev team and many different calls, due diligence and different things and it was a really good experience and it definitely helped our FP and A team. Okay, here's what we planned for. So they'd know what to put in the budget versus oh yeah, we, we don't have any good numbers but we'll figure it out. I've seen that as well. That never works well.

Yep.

For the budget anyway.

Yep.

So I'm curious, you know, when you became a first time cfo, what was the hardest part for you? What was the biggest adjustment?

I think your job has changed a little bit between a controllership, which always look historically to applying pretty complex accounting guidance onto the financials and then and of course, you know, that would be equivalent to a CAO anyway as well as transactional processes. I could also say that being controllership also sometimes manages tax and treasury as well for the heads of finance and or FP and a side of things, of course, the annual budget, the operating plan and utilizing that as an excuse to make sure that we have alignment between all of the top down, you know, objectives and bottoms up of what people really could need and then utilizing that process on a monthly basis or not quarterly basis to realign those priorities. Whereas a cfo I did a lot more, I spent a lot more time with investors. So IR became a bigger portion of my job as fixture seven. I was able to finish four rounds of financing, you know, all well within three years. All of that, of course, maintaining the, you know, the investment community, communications, presentations, attending to conferences, all of that became a little bigger portion of my job. Second of all, having a direct relationship with your CEO is very important, secondarily a dotted line to the board. Both of those are very important in driving the strategy for the company. And of course all of that I now became the middleman sometimes between our CEO and the rest of the executive team in communication of how to allocate resources. And so all of that has been very helpful because we all know that we're all driving in the right direction and hoping to meet all of those strategic objectives. So I think that's probably the major difference. However, I think for FP and a team who are working with business specific business leadership, they have probably they should look at those business leaders being, you know, the COO or CTO or the CEO, you know, the VP of Engineering or sales, marketing team, they should look at each and individual who are the lead in their department to be just like a CEO, get involved and understanding what is their objective. Get involved in understanding how you can help in looking at all of that and be a trusted advisor from a financial standpoint will definitely help tremendously.

Yeah, I, you know, I heard people say it's in many ways almost kind of a mini CFO role, if you want to call it that. You're not taking care of the board. There's certain things you're not necessarily doing, but definitely like that magic you can look at as a CEO and they have their leadership team and often you're coordinating things around allocation and resources. So I can see a lot of similarities and it sounds like from everything you said and just kind of want to confirm your thoughts on this, I'm guessing you believe that FPA is a good path to becoming a cfo. Would that be a true statement?

I think so. Oh, absolutely. I think so. I'll put it in the perspective of, you know, public company. Public company generally look for somebody who understand the economics and is a lot more revenue driven, less so in the bottom. Well, it's also equally important on the bottom line, of course, but understanding and being able to talk about business import is very important. What is the vision? What kind of product are we going after? What, what market share are we going after? And I think that FP&A has a better vision and you know, it's better than a controller, if you will. A controller could still be a cfo, but I think the controller needs to be able to switch over to the pna, FP and A side a little bit to demonstrate the acumen on the business. However, I do know a lot of controller who have great acumen on the business and have a very good dialed in into the economics of the business. So I think that's also helpful. I think is really about getting the exposure on both sides. I do have to say FP and A sometimes may not make, you know, may have a blind spot where they may not understand the technical accounting behind how the actual numbers come out. Why does it look different than the contract? So I would highly encourage everybody in the FP and A side to shadow your controller. Ask for some training time and understanding how to read the financials and understanding why is done a certain way makes.

A lot of sense. You want to, you got to be able to understand some of the accounting well enough to really understand those financials. You know, FP&A should have that. Not everybody does. There's different levels. You probably need some basic of tax. You need to at least know how to work with audit, which I know I've done in some FP And a roles. Often the accountant comes to you and says, okay, what was the thinking on these accruals? Why did we do this? And. But usually you get some of that, but you need to have that broad. And then what I really like then friend. His first time, you know, his first time as a cfo, one of the first things he did, he goes, I know I'm not as strong on the accounting. I've done fpa, I've done investor relations. I don't have an accounting degree. His first hire was a really good controller because he wanted to make sure he had his, you know, his weakness covered. So I think you make great points. It's good to have that. And also make sure you know where you need help, that you hire the right team with you. Because no. And I'm sure you would agree, no CFO is going to have it all. Right. None of us are know everything.

Absolutely, absolutely. And two other areas that like I said earlier, tax and Treasury.

Yes. I always skip Treasury. I have a good friend who's. He's a Treasury guy and we have fun. He's always, he always posts on LinkedIn, everything. He's like, you need to talk more about Treasury. I'm like, that's your department. I skipped that for a reason. And he gives me a hard time. But it is really important.

Yeah.

Especially you know, the cash flow and all your money and the time I had to work with Treasury. You'll find this interesting. So in FP&A, I supported travelers checks for American Express.

That's a lot.

This was only I left in 2017. You know, all our money was being made off a liability. We got no money off new sales that all went to our network to keep it open to encash stuff so people couldn't cash the checks they had. So all our money came from bonds. There was a $2 billion liability on the balance sheet. So you can imagine with all that being invested and the. There's a lot of conversations with treasury and trying to forecast call rates and what's going to happen. And so that was, that was a really good opportunity to spend a lot of time with Treasury. And then I also supported some other prepaid products where there was a lot of, you know, different cash requirements and needs. And it taught me a lot.

Well, you know, so when we think about treasury, there's so many other areas as well as risk management as well, not just cash. Right. It's also amassing enough cash and or other assets in order to help the company think about acquisition. What if you don't have any cash at all and you don't want to issue shares. You've got to think about what other things I could do in exchange. So from an acquisition standpoint, the treasury aspect of it is very important in managing how much do we have and how much will we have and therefore give that clear view about how to accomplish the growth in the fastest path.

Yeah, of course, you know, can you fund an acquisition off the balance sheet? Do you need to raise debt? Do you need to raise capital? Are you going to go back to your current investors? I imagine there's a ton of different questions, questions both just practical and tactical and strategic into how you do it. How will the market respond if we raise it this way? How will it impact the stock? All those type of things. Are those all, all the fun questions you get to go through?

Yep, absolutely.

See, the ones I worked on were all small, they were funded off the balance sheet and we were a private company. So, you know, there wasn't as much. Obviously there's some conversation with treasury, but is a much easier acquisition on these ones. I've been on part of one where I got asked all the questions when we almost went public one time and that was we got grilled left and right. The deal fell through. It'd been announced, you know, rumor had got out about it, but it never got finalized. It was a SPAC back when SPACs were hot, a couple years when everybody was doing them.

Yep, yep.

That was a good learning experience. But that's the other thing. FP&A, if you're on the side where someone's looking to acquire, you just plan on being able to answer a ton of questions about your data.

Yeah. Being acquired on the acquiring side. FP and A seem to be, you know, a very tough position. Right. Because a lot of times GNA or even SGNA are considered to be a synergy. It's going to be eliminated because they already have their own team. But I would have to say don't give up. It's not just about that job being eliminated, but if you're a great candidate, a lot of times folks are looking for really good people. And therefore my recommendation for anybody who happens to be in the seat of being acquired and in sitting in the FP and A side is to demonstrate acumen of the business, offer up information once the definitive agreement is being signed. Obviously, you know, being the nicest guy out there or gal and being helpful will help you establish new relationship with a new team and see if you have a place in Their job and if nothing else, is really about, you know, help making sure that the company that you're helping to sell is going to land well in the new environment. And if nothing else, even if you don't work with them right away, you build up a good reputation for yourself, and you never know where you're going to land up. And lastly, don't stop looking.

Oh, I agree. You know, there's. You got to be smart about things and take care of yourself. But I really like how you said make sure you're putting your best foot forward, not being complainer or negative because you see a transaction happening and you're worried about your job. If you perform well, people will notice and it will benefit you. Does it mean you'll get a job with the company? Not necessarily. If they have one open, it means you're a good candidate.

Yep.

And that's really what you're looking for, is good opportunities. Because the more good opportunities you have, the more likely you are to land one. It's just like sports, right?

Yep.

The more more you swing out a pitch, the more likely you're eventually to hit something. More more you shoot a basket, more likely are to make it. It's there. There's a numbers aspect to all of this. As much as we sometimes don't like to acknowledge it y. Because it can take a long time. But, no, I think that's really good advice. So I want to ask you another question, kind of when we talk about CFO, what do you believe CEOs are looking for? What's the top two or three things you see them looking for when they're looking for a CFO?

You know, a lot of CEOs not sure about what to look for in a CFO, particularly in a smaller company. I would have to say, in my experience, CEO generally are looking for a partner. Well, actually, partner is a big word. They're probably looking for someone who makes sure that they could sleep silently at night. So the CFO's job is definitely to make sure that all aspect of financials, particularly on a compliance side, is taken care of. And then on top of it, that's just minimum requirement. But the second most important thing for me, I think, is the ability to be working side by side with a CEO and understanding from a financial perspective, to give good intelligence so then the CEO can make decision. And I'm not just talking about, gee, you know, how much cash we have in the bank. That's also just par for the course. But what I'm saying is, how does it look like in few months, how do we want, where do we want it to project out, where do we have resources and how much money do we need? When do we go out and raise the funds? And therefore the CFO is really important in leading those charges and giving the CEO all of the support possible. So then the CEO can direct the company where they need to go. Second of all, I think maybe the third thing is to be a great confidant, if you will. We work partnership with together in supporting the CEO to share the information and update with the board. A lot of the directions and approval has to come from the board. And so all of those are a good relationship. And being the right hand of the CEO in my experience has been valuable in that if there's anything that needs to be addressed within the executive team, a lot of times short of the HRO or CPO if you will, the CFO is the other arm as well in helping to shape the team in terms of culture, in terms of what's important. I think all of those are very key for the CEO.

That makes a lot of sense. I think a couple things there, obviously the table stakes are compliance, they want to feel comfortable, you're going to keep them out of jail, so to speak, as the saying goes. Then from there it's sounds like there's really that strategic, that aspect of helping figure out how to get there, helping grow the resource side. As you mentioned, being a confident, being somebody they can go to, they can bounce ideas off and they can trust in the leadership teams almost, you know, that right hand person in many ways.

Yep.

And so you mentioned, you know, think FPA is a great path for, for becoming a cfo. You know, many ways you serve like a mini, mini cfo you mentioned you need to make sure you get the, the broad scope to be prepared. Not, you know, forgetting about treasury or tax, but any boxes in particular, like is there anything, say you're an FPA professional, you're at that, you know, Director VP level, been really highly looked at any other boxes that they really need to make sure they check outside of maybe understanding the rest of finance, like do they need to check some kind of strategic box or you know, certain kind of relationship skills or anything you could think of that they really need to demonstrate that shows the CEO, hey, I'm a, you know, I'm a good candidate here. Shows companies that I'd make a good cf.

Yes, absolutely. So again, we don't work in a vacuum. We don't just work with the CEO and then our Own team. We're really outward facing to you know, investor communicate, you know. And of course that comes with timely follow up and whatnot. Internally it's being about, you know, the chemistry with the rest of the executive team. That has a lot to do with and again this old school thinking about I'm the no guy, I'm here to control cost. That is missing the boat. What we are trying to do is really moving the company forward. And being the CFO is really helping to get allocation and prioritization of the resources we have and helping everybody move the company along. So that alignment has to be done through proper communication and education. And then of course, you know, again we seem like the guy and gal who put in internal control. Again, education will probably help with that. So the skill set of somebody in the FP and A who wanted to become a cfo, first and foremost, acumen of the business, help provide intelligence. Second, great people skills in, in moving along. And I'm not suggesting someone who is draconian in, in having everything done his way or the highway and, and make everybody, you know, act like, you know, I guess followers or someone who is a people pleaser who is going to just try to make sure everybody likes me and therefore nobody needs to do anything. As I said that would not, neither one of them would be effective. What's most effective is really education, alignment of priorities, making sure the entire team is backing up, understanding why we do this, not that, why money gets spent here, but not there. And then lastly putting together these KPI will help tremendously. So again, the skill set of somebody in FP&A is understand again what makes this company successful and having the measure against it in the meantime, delivering that with a great teamwork, great communication and great education.

Yeah, so I'm hearing a few things there. Obviously you got to be great with relationships. I like that you mentioned that business acumen, just how critical that is. And then KPIs. I don't think you can stress enough how important it is to be able to measure those results, be able to really measure those ones that are important that they can influence. Because we Hear the term KPIs all the time, but a lot of metrics aren't KPIs, even though we may want to report on all of them. So I think there's something to be said there for really being able to hone in on what's important, what are the key KPIs for our strategy and for what we're trying to accomplish. Not how can I measure Every metric. But question I have for you as we talk about that, you know, one of the things we've mentioned is obviously FPA needs to be more and more strategic. It's in many ways it's a front facing, very important business role. It's not like some people used to think of a back office, so to speak or cf. No really is a commercial driven role. So any advice on how we be more strategic as FP&A professionals? Any thoughts on what we should be doing to make sure we're being strategic?

I think couple of things. One is you've got to know what the strategy is. So if you don't know, keep asking. And if they don't know, that could be a problem.

I have a story about that. I'll tell you when we're done.

But let's just say that it's public company maybe is easier because a lot of the information is outwardly available. When we have the earnings call, it's very easy for us talking about what is that we're going after. From a strategy standpoint, how do we measure ourselves? We could get analysts report to see how they're measuring us. Right. When it's private, it's harder. Right. Because it may not be out there. But just keep asking the question. Well, strategically where you want to be, if it's really just according to the budget, following up on it. The budget is just numbers. Well, what's driving those budget? Are we trying to achieve a certain milestones in development, in product rollout, in margin, in, you know, so when you take a look at all of that, that's a lot to work with. And then how to be strategic other than just counting the numbers is really understanding from your perspective what are the levers that's going to deliver those results. So is is deliver, you know, additional sales. Well, sales team, what could I do to help? Oh, revenue team, is there anything I could help? Is there anything that we could do an analysis on? Could I use any of the historical to show if we're up high, low talking with marketing, maybe you feel like you're kind of going a little outside of your comfort zone or going outside of where your your territory is. But that's how you get to know a little bit more about how you could be more strategic. There are certain things that we also do is if they need it today, I do it today, right? If they need it tomorrow, I'll do it today anyway. And the reason being is time is of the essence. Right. And unfortunately another month that we don't have revenue is another month of operating expenses invested. To drive to that revenue. If we think of it that way, then is really about the sense of urgency. And then now you have to prioritize like crazy. And that prioritization is pretty strategic a lot of times.

Makes a lot of sense. I appreciate that answer. I liked when you said, basically, I don't know what to tell you if there's no strategy. I was in a company, we got a new CEO and it was really funny. He'd been in the seat for about two months and he's doing a meeting at a town hall with everybody and he started talking about how they're going to set out a strategy. And he goes, I've been here for. It was like two, three months and. And I haven't seen a strategy yet. If anyone knows what it. Where it is, please let me know. Like, he was just acknowledging there's been no strategy for this company and he was working on crafting it. It was pretty funny. I just kind of had a laugh. A little scary. But yeah, it was one of those where it's like, all right, how are we supposed to know what to do if there's really no strategy here? It was definitely a unique arrangement. So that's my story about no strategy.

Wow, that is pretty unique. I mean, it's one thing to acknowledge there isn't one and then there is one to let everybody else know there isn't one.

Yeah. Let's just say it was a unique company. That CFO left after a few months. He didn't last long. Well, I want to move on to what I call a rapid fire section. And this is where I ask you. There's four questions. The idea is to give kind of quick answers on these so we go through them quickly just to have a little fun. I'm going to start here with this first one. What is the number one technical skill that FP&A professionals should master?

I hate to say this, but Excel, Excel, Excel. I understand there are a ton of tools out there, but if you could not put together those analysis should be. And what should it make up of in an Excel and. Or any other manner? Kind of couldn't really translate it into a tool, so I might focus on the tool. But Excel is probably the first one.

Yeah, I'm not surprised by that at all. What is the number one softer human skill FP and a professional should have?

Well, I think empathy or EQ is definitely important in order to work with all of the executives. And you're here to support Them and understanding some of the information, you must be able to work well with them. And EQ poly is the first and foremost and then of course communication comes second.

EQ and communication. I like it. Are you currently using generative AI and if so, how?

I am actually not generally using it. I have to say I can't wait to see it finish. So I would highly recommend anybody thinking about using generative AI is to getting the vendors to support a page that static that they continue to update with good information. But you know, anybody sitting there and looking at just a prompt, they won't come, I can tell you that.

Yeah, we definitely. There's software. The vendors are figuring out those software strategies. Dove along. We have a, a while to go. I mean it's amazing where we've accomplished, but we have a while to go before it's into all our tools and really basically as ubiquitous as the web. Right. That's eventually where it will get, but we're not there yet.

I was, I was going to add one more thing. The beginning of my career, one thing that I've done, obviously systems is huge thing. I've always implemented a ton of different tools and I was at this company where I was working with the database Dune. Exactly, that's his title. So anyway, is to put together what the BI would look like and giving, giving definition to each one of them and having to leave a trail of that so then we could all speak the same language was very important. And ultimately, you know, that's exactly what's necessary.

You got to have a good database, dude.

Yeah.

All right. What's the one software you can't live without?

Oh boy. Well, I'm just gonna say Excel again.

I had a feeling that might be coming. I'm not surprised. You have a favorite Excel function. There's a question for you.

Pivot tables, hands down. Pivot tables.

Pivot tables. A favorite shortcut in Excel.

You know, I have to say every time they come up with something new and I've always fallen back to the good old days of those quick shortcut, you know, the Control C, Control V, you know. Anyway, I'm going to date myself telling you all this, but I, I think, you know, it's kind of like doing a piano second nature.

Yeah, no, I'm a lot the same. Control C, contrl V, F2. There's. There's a few that end up being by far the dominant ones I use. So. I understand that one. All right, so we're going to move into the section called the get to Know you section where we have a little more personal questions asked, you get to know a little bit more about you. So what's a favorite hobby or passion you have?

Definitely a golfer. You always find me the golf courses whenever you can.

Ah. Do you like watching or just playing?

No, I play. I play.

Play fun. Nice. What is one book you can recommend to our audience? If you had a recommended book, what would it be?

I would definitely offer up the seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen.

That's a great one. He actually taught at the same university.

Wow, that's great.

He wasn't teaching when I was there, but I remember a lot of the professors talking about him. He had left to start his own business, but. But he taught at byu.

Well, the book is excellent, so I agree.

I've read a few of his books. Good stuff. Favorite travel destination.

Oh, boy. You know, I've worked many years of, of traveling for work, so right now I'm. I'm interested in going anywhere with somebody to build memories. It doesn't matter where.

I love that answer. It's about the memories, not the location.

They, you know, after a while, they all look about the same.

There's some truth to that. There's something to be said for just getting out and making memories and having fun. Whether it's local, halfway around the world. Just get out and enjoy time with others. Great one there. Last get to know you question, then we'll wrap up. If you could have dinner with anyone in the world alive today, who would you go to dinner with?

You know, first I thought maybe having dinner with Mother Teresa would be great, but she's not alive. But, you know, that would be also, you know, you know, kind of amazing to see how she's done it and how does she get started and all of the impact. If I were to have to, you know, say somebody who's alive today. Darn, that's a tough one. Got to think about that one.

So if you could offer our audience any piece of advice to be a better business partner, particularly FPA business partner, what advice would you give them?

You know, this whole podcast is all about that, right? You know, good business acumen, good systems understanding, the intelligence of the business, great eq, great communication skills. Gee, just be yourself, be out there and. And be a friend, you know, professionally, of course, but. But be a friend. I think just be yourself and be curious. With the right mindset, I think everybody would want to be your partner.

I really, I like that part. With the right mindset, everybody will want to be your partner. If you focus on them, you're curious, you're engaging, you're that professional friend, you're, you're making their life easier. They're going to want to work with you. If someone wants to learn more about you, what would be the best way for them to do that?

Well, I'm actually on LinkedIn, so if anybody wanted to LinkedIn with me, please just reference the FP and a guy. So I know where you're coming from. And I'm also on CFO Leadership Council. I am actually a co chair for the Silicon Valley Chapter. So come on by and say hello and I could even get you in to one of our programs.

Perfect. Well, thank you for carving out some time today coming on the show. Really enjoyed chatting with you. Good luck with all the different projects you have going on, the tasks you're doing there and excited to see what's next for you and just to share this with our audience. So thanks again for joining me.

Thank you so much for having me. Have a great day.

You too. Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of Choice Choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on Earmark and contact me, the show host, for further detail. Towels.