Excel SIM Method for Finance Students to Master Three Statement Models Fast with Drew Blazsik

AI is awesome. I don't look at it as an intelligence. I look at it as a gathering of information very quickly. It's awesome for creativity, but it starts.

With you being creative. Will AI build the models for us in the future?

I think the big misconception of AI. Meet Drew Blasik, professor of Finance at Adrian College and creator of the Structured Immediate Method sim. With a background in financial modeling and data analysis, Drew's innovative teaching approach makes complex finance concepts more engaging and practical for students.

How did you decide to become a professor?

I've done many different jobs. I was in sales. I went back to school and I realized I love teaching processes and I really fell in love with finance. The whole thing is how do you make learning exciting and fun?

What do you see as the most common mistakes students make when they're first learning to model?

Number one mistake you see people make is just the design structure not knowing how to use it. They couldn't get the choose function to work. The assumptions won't work.

What would be the number one piece of advice to be a better financial modeler?

I would say.

Financial Modeler's Corner is the world's premier modeling podcast. It is brought to you by Financial Modeling Institute, the world's leading financial modeling accreditation organization. Welcome to Financial Modeler's Corner. I am your host, Paul Barnhurst, AKA the FPA Guy, and this is a podcast where we talk all about the art and science of financial modeling with distinguished financial modelers from around the globe. The Financial Modelers Corner podcast is brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. FMI offers the most respected accreditations in financial modeling. That's why I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler last year and this year I am enrolled to take the Chartered Financial Modeler. With that being said, I'm thrilled to welcome this week's guest onto the show. We have with us Drew Blasik. Drew, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you. Thank you for having me, Paul. I appreciate it. Very excited to be on here.

Yeah, really excited to have you. So let me give a a brief bio about Drew, tell you a little bit about him. So he's an Assistant professor of Finance and Economics at Adrian College and the creator of the Structured Immediate Method sim, which we'll talk about during the podcast. He has over a decade of experience teaching finance, including positions at the University of Toledo and Lourdes University. His work focuses on connecting academic theory with real world application, especially in Excel based financial modeling, investment strategy, and Catholic economic thought. Drew hosts the Faith and Finance podcast on enunciation Radio, where he explores the relationship between money markets from a Catholic perspective. He also runs the logos and markets YouTube channel featuring content on financial modeling and economic issues. He plans to launch training modules for both corporate and academic settings. Drew is a husband and father of seven dedicated to faith, family, and helping others build strong foundations in finance and ethics. Something tells me with all you have going on and seven kids, you don't have a lot of free time.

Yeah, you know, it can get kind of busy. But I'll say one thing, is that having other kids help take care of the younger ones really help out.

So, yeah, I grew up in a family of seven, and I can remember helping take care as middle child, but help them take care of some of my younger siblings.

Yeah. So, I mean, it's. It's fun to watch too. And it's becomes easier than the first couple, I would say. So.

Yeah. I heard someone say once, you know, the second kid's the hardest, like if you have multiple. Because they say the third is the hearts. Because you're outnumbered.

Yeah.

And then after that, it starts to get easier because they can start helping. It's like, okay, it's a fourth. I'm still outnumbered. I'm. It's still outnumbered. That's how someone described it to me once they're like, you know, that third kid for me was the hardest because all of a sudden I'm outnumbered. But then after that, it just wasn't. Not as big of an adjustment.

I would totally agree.

Yeah, I figured you could probably relate to that. I know my mom can, so. Alrighty, so let's jump into modeling. Instead of asking you the worst financial model, since you're a teacher, I want to ask a question related to that. What do you see as the most common mistakes students make when they're first learning to model? What are the major issues you see when you.

When you see students, of course, it has to do with what level they are. I just created a financial modeling course at Adrian which has to do with the FMI exam, so the AFM exam, so that they were training to take that exam. But number one mistake you see people make is just the design structure, not knowing how to use it. They couldn't get the choose function to work. The assumptions won't work. And then what they do is when they're not knowing how to really format Excel, they hard code a lot of numbers, and it's not. It's not adjustable, it's not dynamic in their model, and it's pretty much because they just don't know the basics of Excel and I think that's the, it comes down to really messing up the model, the financial model.

So it sounds like as I'm hearing, and I kind of think of two things there. One, errors from not knowing Excel, you know, hard coding, numbers sometimes because the format doesn't look right or doing whatever to get it to do what you want. And that second is not really knowing how to properly design the model. So having those flow and structure issues that come from a poorly designed model, is that kind of a. Yeah, I.

Mean, it definitely comes from the, the scenario page. If they don't know how to create that, it seems like they get a little paranoid about it. And then when they create the rest in the model, it's a lot of hard coding and numbers and they're just kind of plugging numbers in and it doesn't make sense. And then it goes right into the balance sheet, not being balanced and not knowing in the structure of it. Even if they do know how to do that correctly, if they don't know the, the functionality of Excel, it just doesn't look right and it's confusing when you see it.

Sure. Yeah. No, there's a lot of things like that when you, you start to realize, oh, that really is a date, even though it looks like a number or whatever it might be because you just don't know how Excel works when you first start.

Yeah. And you see the problem is. Yeah. You're taking, I noticed that when you take the beginning finance classes, you're seeing snippets of finance. Oh, this is that ratio. This is the, the equity part of it. And you're not connecting the entire thing. So they really, it's, it's a, it's a difficult aspect.

Sure.

To see what you saw in all the textbooks. And the textbooks aren't giving you the ability to connect the entire schedules with the three statement modeling. Once you do that, a light bulb will click on the student. The ones who really want to learn that they have an incentive and they really want to get it straight, it clicks in their mind and say, this is the best class ever taken. Once that clicks, it almost brings like the entire finance together.

Sure. I'm sure there's a moment. Yeah. Where it brings it all together because you learn finance. Okay. I might have a class about portfolio theory or this one, I'm focusing on ratios or, you know, whatever it may be. You're learning different things, but rarely are you seeing a full model with all three statements. You know, and, and really getting those ins and out. That takes time before you get there.

And once they get to that point, it makes sense and it brings it together. But once you get to that point, you really have to pay attention. And the students who are paying attention, I mean, they blow through it, they love it. And I'll mention this later on, it becomes, it becomes not studying, but it becomes like a practice in a sport. What they all say, and the ones who are struggling, who aren't, I would say, putting their effort into it, they just worry about, oh, I just want to pass this class. Than really mastering it. That becomes burdensome and they're studying, but the ones who are enjoying it, it's like going out there. You want to have the correct form and you want to work hard at it, and it becomes this practice.

I know what you're talking about when you say the passion. I have attended the last two years the Microsoft Excel Collegiate Challenge, where, you know, they're, they're building cases, more esports in this case. But there are some financial stuff. And watching them do that, you could tell the ones that just love it and passion, they're, they're there to learn and they just get excited to solve it and put things together versus, oh, this is something my professor is making me do.

You know, it's interesting too. I mean, you said exactly right. The ones who are job searching in their senior year and they see the job description of what they need to have are the ones who are excited to go to class and the ones who aren't really preparing for the future. And it's just another class. It's burdensome and it becomes work and the other students becomes fun. And you want to learn.

Yeah, so much truth to that. Great. And we'll talk a lot more about kind of students and what you're doing as a professor. But this is one other question I want to ask because I think everybody has a little bit of a different definition on this. And I've had people ask me, like I had a guest ask me, you don't ever define this in your show. So I'm like, I will start asking people, when you think of a financial model, how would you define a financial model?

So I might be a bit different because I think the majority of people watching this financial modeling has to do with the schedules. And now with my courses, I build financial models with a lot of different, kind of like the Black Scholes model, I do the binomial model. I do this five stock model. So I do a lot of different models. So my definition would be It's a structured representation of a company's financial reality in a way. But I think the main point is to analyze, forecast, and to support a final decision. And I think. And the final one is it tells a story when you're doing it, and I think a lot of people would mention that, but it kind of tells a story of connecting all the financials with the company. And you're bringing the past and then you're bringing in assumptions about the future.

I like it. No great example. And I've just started asking this one. So you're on, I think the second person I've asked. So I have a better idea what everybody says in a few weeks after I've done four or five of these. But I've definitely seen all kinds of different definitions. And so it's fascinating to see how people think about it. You know, obviously there's similarities and things weave throughout, but other times when I've talked to people, I've seen different answers. So now we'll, we'll see what I get from the guests. So you're working at Adrian College. You've worked at a couple different universities. How did you decide to become a professor? Tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, sure. I think a lot of professors out there, they become a professor they know they want to do when they're young to go into the PhD program. My life track was a bit different. I've done many different jobs. I was in sales. I went back to school. I was accountant for the Lucas County Clerk of Courts. And how I became a professor was really a job opened up at the University of Toledo to teach economics. And I loved economics. I taught there for three years and then I got a professor job at Lourdes University. So kind of it was, it was a later in life decision I made and I kind of went down that route and I realized I love teaching processes and I love teaching different ways of students knowing how to do complex topics. I originally thought I loved economics, which I still do. And until I would say the last, since 2016, I've really been teaching finance courses and, and I really fell in love with finance. And then what's interesting about that, the way I teach finance and those methods, I'm starting to implement that in economic courses too because they're kind of similar in a way. But no, economics is very abstract. And I love finance because it's some abstraction to it, but it's very. There's an answer to it and I like that, even though economics does. But there's a lot of nuance and a lot of assumptions definitely making that. But.

Well, the joke I've always heard when it comes to economists that kind of speaks to the nuance and the assumptions is ask for economists, get five opinions.

Yeah.

You know, and so it's, there's definitely a lot of room for, I mean, because there's just so many variables you're dealing with in economics, especially if you're looking at global stuff. Right. It's really hard to be sure about almost anything because you're trying to isolate. At least that's kind of, you know, some of the things I think about when I think about economics. Obviously I've taken several classes and I like it. There's a lot of good stuff. But I can see where finance is a little more. I don't know if structure is the right word, but easier to get to an answer and, you know, some of those type of things.

It's like I remember the story that one time someone asked, hey, what does the number say in economics? And the professor said, well, what do you want it to say?

So, yeah, exactly. I've heard that one as well. Oh, funny what you can do with numbers. So obviously, you know, you, you love teaching. What is it about teaching kids, you know, kind of that college age and working with them that you really enjoy? You mentioned how you enjoy financial modeling more than economics for some reasons. But what is it about the age group you're working with that you enjoy?

Well, we have to separate age groups because you got, if you teach principal courses, you have a lot of students who are in the business school that have to do with marketing, has to do with a lot. And with economics, it could be, it could be. I remember at University of Toledo is chemistry. So you, you have a lot of different majors. So once you break that down, sometimes if you're teaching people who are not interested in the topic and they just need to take the class, it's not as fun or rewarding as a professor than if you're teaching upper level finance courses of students who want to learn. So once you teach those kind of students, you never, I want to say you never want to go back. But those are definitely the best. Most enjoyment I get is teaching students that really want to learn. And what I love to think about when you're teaching finance is there's a lot of complex difficulties parts of finance. I try to think about what is the best way to teach these students and how can they regain that information. There's, there's just different ways of doing it and Reaching them. No, with economics is to. It was to teach people that this is the real world. This is the macro. You'll see this in the news in a finance. You have to connect it to. You're going to learn this in the job and it's going to benefit you in so many ways, especially. Especially with income. So just teaching that process of how to learn, I've always enjoyed that going from way back when I was young.

Got it. Thank you for that. And I know what you mean. There's nothing like when you have a student that's hungry to learn. I do training, Excel, FP and A. And you have those days when you could tell someone's just there for the CPE credit or whatever it may be, versus that person that you could tell they're curious and really want to learn you. And they're the one that email you after the course and say, hey, I tried this and I have these problems. And I always enjoy those more. Cause I'm like, okay, I made a difference versus someone checked a box. So I'm curious. You completed the advanced Financial model yourself from fmi. And I know you use it in your coursework. How did you. How did you decide to complete it and then, you know, use it in your coursework? Kind of maybe talk a little bit about how you became familiar with it and why you did that.

So I was creating the course and then I completed it later on. I found fmi. I don't remember how I found them. I found them online. I'm always doing search and I found CFI first and then I found fmi and I actually met with Ian one time. And my goal was to give value in my courses where it's not just learning the material so you can graduate. I want you to learn the material and you can get certificates, you can get more. Just. Just not just your college degree. I want to see AFM certificate when you're getting that job before you graduate. So I saw that. I was like, you know what? This would be a good challenge for me to try to get the afm. And then when I was taking the afm, studying for it, I was thinking the whole time creating modules of how to teach it.

Sure.

And so the whole time. And then I talked with Ian and talked to Paul, he's one of the representatives. And we set up a time and we had. So it was an experimental class that we set up at Adrian, and It was about 20 students. And now it's an official class, so every spring will offer it. This course is all Geared around the course, the AFM exam. I'm going to make a few changes going forward because we only did it this last semester. So it was an experimental class. But it's rewarding for them to know they get to take an exam at the end of the semester and they get to put that on the resume. And when I do the CFI certificates, they like to just put it on LinkedIn. Right, right. You're going through college, no one knows what you're doing. Hey, if you get to complete some things on the way and show people what you're doing, show that added addition of what the hard work you're doing, I think that's beneficial for college students.

Well, my background is in FP&A. I am also passionate about financial modeling. Like many financial modelers, I was self taught. Then I discovered the Financial Modeling Institute, the organization that offers the advanced Financial Modeler program. I am a proud holder of the afm. Preparing for the AFM exam made me a better modeler. If you want to improve your modeling skills, I recommend the AFM program. Podcast listeners save 15% on the AFM program. Just use code podcast100 agree. I wish I had something like that where I was done and said oh, I finished the, you know, the afm I could show my employer, look, I've built a three statement model. I understand that I've passed, you know, a rigorous test. There's real value of that going out in the job market. And so I'm, it's good to see that. I'm curious how's the feedback been in general from the students you said you did? The first one was experiment experiential and now it's going to be a full time course. So I'm assuming feedback was really good. But I'd love to know just a little bit of kind of how the response has been.

So before I go into that class, I've been using these different methods to how I teach it in my other courses. So just real, real quick example. If you, if you took up a Pearson textbook or a Cengage textbook we use, it'll have the first chapter two and three is about financial modeling and they break it down each section. And what I did was I brought each section of the PowerPoint and I brought it into one Excel sheet of a financial model. So you had the three statement models? Yeah, the. And also equity and I showed how the entire chapter was connected and the students love that. And if you learn through that rather than individual oh let's do this equation, you have no clue how it's connected. They like that.

Sure.

So onto the, the experimental course the comments I got was. And there's a couple changes I'm going to make was they felt like. And how I teach it, there's no way of cheating. You can't really cheat. How I. How I taught it, you can't use AI AI will not work in my, in my method. And it's time. So AI would take longer and it. All AI will tell you is how to solve it. And if you don't know how to do it by then, it's. It's going to really hurt you in your exam. But the students would say it doesn't feel like studying. It feels like practice. I enjoy it. I kind of talked about it before. I have that method where it lights up if you get the correct answer. It's like a, like on a Facebook page. When they get that, they feel good about it and they, they really feel like they learned. And then if they don't get it instantly, that it. Nothing happens. And they, they want to know why, they want to go right back, why did I get that correct? So they liked it. I would just say a couple changes I would make. I don't know if I'm jumping to another question real quick, but go ahead. A couple changes I would make in it is my class was so heavy on numbers and memorizing that equation. And then the application. After you solve the debt schedule, how do you plug that into the income statement, the balance sheet, and the cash flow statement? What I'm going to do next time is take that Excel sheet away and I'm going to sit down and talk with each student and I'm going to assess how much they know it. So I'm going to, I'm going to ask him if you're going to put the debt schedule together, what numbers. Walk me through it. I want you to communicate it to me. So I think going forward to teach it, I need communication from students that they can verbally communicate it rather than memorizing. Oh, I feel that Excel sheet and I could get the answers. So I have a couple other assignments I'm going to recreate so they can communicate it. And plus they can do the math.

That's great to be able to one verbally communicate it and do the math because the more you're able to communicate it, the more you understand something, you really understand it when you communicate it. So I think that's great. So, you know, one thing you mentioned is the structured immediate method you mentioned how, hey, it lights up and tells them if they got something right or wrong. You mentioned you kind of related it to Instagram and the like, you know, I kind of think of, you know. Right. Gamification a little bit. But talk about that kind of that method. How did you come up with it and what exactly does it do? So maybe tell us a little bit more about that.

So I call it sim. The Structured Immediate method has a couple components to it. I build that now in all my finance courses. It does take time to build and once you build it, it's always there. So that's what's nice about it and what it is. It's a system that has all the answers in the engine. It's totally adjustable, so if you want to change the assumptions, it will automatically correct itself and give you the correct answer. So when the students are going through it, when I'm lecturing, they can actually have that sheet there and then try to plug numbers in. And if they get it correct, I have the cell that they're trying to get the answer. And it will light up a certain color and it will light up a green and then it triggers in their mind instantly. So my whole psychological aspect to it is that if you know instantly and it's in an enjoyable color, you learn better. And if it's fun and it's entertaining, the to retain information, you learn a lot more and a lot quicker. So, and the reason why I came up with this was I was following the FMI videos and I would, I created, I didn't, I didn't realize that he gave his. The documents at the beginning. So I'm following those videos, I'm typing up the entire thing, watching it, pausing it, typing up the whole thing. And then I would practice the entire three statement model. And then you get to the hardest part. In my opinion, the debt schedule is the hardest. And it takes you about, I don't know if you're really quick at it, you can get it to that point in 30 minutes. If you're not quick, maybe hour and a half. And then you get to that point and you're tired and, and then you make that one mistake, you get that circular reference and then you get so mad. And then you're not learning because you spend all the time to get to that point. You know, the revenue, you know, the cost. My whole thought was, I need to create these worksheets that is specific just for the debt schedule. And everything else is completed in our model besides the debt schedule. And you can practice, practice, practice, in the debt instantly. You don't have to wait to complete everything else until you master the debt schedule and then you can go on to the next schedule. And that's how I learn. I played a sport and I learned that play basketball. If you want to get good at something, you do with the right technique and you do it over and over with hard work. So I wanted to create a model that it forces you to do the right technique and you'll know if you get it wrong. And then you can practice over and over. And I developed a button on the top left corner that you can reset it so it deletes all the unprotected cells that you're working on. It'll delete them and you can just do the debt schedule over and over and over until you master it. And this is the feedback I get. It's like riding a bike. Once you get in your head, you can't unforget it. Once it's drilled in your head in this example, and then also I think it's real important was, well, after you complete the debt schedule, well, what do you plug in? What goes in the income statement, the balance sheet, and the cash flow statement? Well, I have all three of those three statement models open and I have it grayed out of where the area you need to plug those numbers into. So not just solving the debt schedule, you become an expert of the application of where it plugs in. And I want that student to really see it in their mind when they're working through it. I mean, can you sit here and really think about how to plug it in? So I was like thinking about how the best way to do it. So I created that sim method and then you have the green cells, which are very important at the beginning. And then we take that away, we take the green cells away, and then I have another sheet. And this took a long time to develop. It's a grading system of every single schedule, every single section in every single schedule. And it'll show is at 1 through 100% complete. And you get to really examine without the green cells you messed up. You can go back to that grade and try to figure out exactly where you messed up. Because you know what it is. It's so frustrating. We have an entire model and you know you messed up and you have to go searching for it. That takes up so much energy and you don't know where you made the mistake. And my method is, I want to know instantly where I made the mistake, make the correction and keep on doing it. Until you perfect it.

We've all been there where you're searching to find, try to figure out why your balance sheet doesn't balance or why you have negative cash when you don't think you should or what, whatever it might be. We've all had different things. You're just like, you know something's wrong, but you don't know where or why. Yes, I've definitely had a few late nights like that with forecasts and budgets or it's just like, all right, this is not tying out.

It's real important with students that people like us, we will take the time to study. Sometimes students is in a generation of that instant, they need everything instant or they lose focus, they're not going to study, and they feel like they're going to give up. If they feel like they don't know how to get the answer, they just give up and say, I'm happy with that. D, I'm happy with that. C, I want something where you never have to worry about that. And in my courses, even though it's a face to face, I do a how to video on YouTube where they can watch me solve it and then they could practice at a certain time. So they're not, I don't want students to ever feel like they're stuck. They can't solve it. They always could. View the video. Okay, this is how you do it. Now you want to go back and practice, practice, practice until you can do it.

No, I, I'm with you. I think that, I think that's great. And you know, that instant answer and being able to just kind of repeat something really helps you learn it, it enforces it. And how have you seen a change in your students since you started using the SIM method? Like, have you noticed a big difference maybe in your teaching and just the response from the students? Maybe talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, so that's this class, but I've been using the SIM method. I don't use PowerPoints anymore and I use now. If you think about, if you think about a corporate finance class, we're going over specific topics. So let's say you're going over the bonds, so. Or stock evaluation. So I, I created a word problem in Excel and I create it where it's linked to the answer. So you as a teacher, you could say the sentence will say the bond price was $950. You can go to that cell and you could change it to 950, you could change it to any and automatically adjust. Everything will change. And what I Do is I pull that up in class. I give a quick minute lecture, and then each student has a computer, and they pull that Excel sheet. It's right in front of their face. I have the question. It's a gray cell where they have to plug the number in. And then if they get it correct, it lights up. So the feedback is. It forces. So back in the day, when I did not use that, about 30% of students really pay attention and take good notes. And the students who feel like they're lost, they just give up. About 90% of the students all have that Excel sheet pulled up, and they're trying to figure out what it is. And we don't go forward until everyone gets that green cell. So it's like a lecture, and they have the question there, and the goal is to light it up green. Instead of constantly looking at, what did Professor Blazik's numbers say? Like, instead of trying to match it, I want you to see, I did it correct. I want it instantly. So the feedback is. They love it. I always ask them what their opinions are. I don't use Pearson. I don't use cengage anymore. I just use these Excel sheets. And a couple times I had a difficult question. I said, whoever comes up with the question correct. Next class, I'll give you a candy bar. And I'll tell you one thing. It's hard to get students to study. I had a group of students after class. They stayed after class trying to figure this out. They wanted to figure it out. And then what I learned later, which was nice about this whole method, was part of their grade, is they have to upload that Excel sheet. So the only way to get it correct, it has to light up green and it's turned off. They can't do it themselves, so they have to upload it. So Now I'm getting 100% participation because at the end of the class, they have to upload it. I go to Blackboard, I look at it, it's lit up green. I give them full credit. It's easy on me. I don't want to spend a lot of time. Look at the numbers. Do they get the correct number? So it really increases participation. It increases paying attention during class. I think that's key because a lot of students weren't doing it. I'm getting a very high level. And of course, you always get the students that don't pay attention. I'm like, hey, where you been? Or passed out sleeping, Right? But it's transformative of how I teach. I Have the question up there. I get to communicate how to do it, and they get to work on it. And the ones who are way ahead, they know the answer right away because it lit up green for their correct answer. So. And I'm slowly transforming. And now I'm going into the economic courses, the principles. How can I do that? Get 100% participation during class. A little more challenging, but I started with, I'm teaching an online econ course now, and each student has to watch my video and they have to follow along and they have to submit the Excel sheet. Even though it's not hard, you have to pay attention to my lecture or it's not going to light up. Right. So what's great about it is no cheating. You can't just ask AI to write a paragraph. You have to submit this. And it's easy grading for me, too. Oh, you did it correct. Lit up green. Yeah, 100%.

I studied really hard, but I. I struggled during. Because they were lectures, staying awake during lectures. So I would have liked the interactive nature. I did much better in that environment, so I can appreciate that.

And what's that pyramid of learning? They say if you listen to people, you regain 5%. And then if you actually write it down, I don't remember the exact numbers, like 70% retain, but if you teach other people, it goes like the 90%. So my whole goal in teaching is, how do you get people to actually participate? Write it down. And to me, Excel is writing it down. Because when you write, when you type it down, you save that document. You don't remember how to do it. Hey, go pull up your old Excel sheet, click on the cell, and it'll tell you how to do it.

Great point. I like that. And when you and I chatted beforehand, I know we had a little conversation prepping for the podcast. You shared that you have used the SIM method with your son.

Yes.

And helping him with his math. So how is that gone? Tell a little bit about that. I found that an interesting story, so.

I kind of went in depth with Excel. I created an Excel sheet that you could pick how many questions you want. I think It'd be from 1 to 200 questions if you wanted to. And all it really is is addition. You have one side, the first number, the second number you can pick from. Net, any number you want. You want it from 0 to 100, 0 to 5, whatever. And all it is is adding those numbers up. And then my son goes into that cell and then he tries to figure it out, and then add it up in his head and then he puts correct answer and then it lights up green. So this is crazy about that. So he's seven. I have another five year old that just started to do it too that hasn't really done too much math at all. And she just did this a couple days ago. They asked to actually play with it because they find it very fun and entertaining and they start typing it in and then if they don't get it, if it doesn't light up green, they're always like, dad, how do you do this? And it drives them nuts. And then Christian's getting pretty good at it and he's plugging it in and he's going really quick. But no, it's tricky thing is he tried to do a control fill down on me. So he tried to say, I want to solve this one plus this one. And he's trying to cheat the system instead of really trying to go through the questions.

Sure. He's trying to have Excel do all the math for him instead of solving himself.

So then I found out in the VBA of Excel, I turned off any formula calculations where you have to plug numbers in. So now it comes up in the error for him. So he can't do that anymore. So then my 5 year old tried to do it and Hannah, and then, I mean she does some worksheets I'm really trying to separate. Like if you had an Excel sheet that lights up compared to a piece of paper and they have no clue if they got the correct answer. And you as a parent, you have to look if they got the correct answer. Hannah was working on it. One, I'm not even making this up because I, I created this method one day she did over, I think it was over a hundred math questions. It was from zero to five. She couldn't get enough of it. And she goes, Dad, 10 more, 10 more. And I got a button on there. You just hit that and it resets it and it randomizes all the numbers. And then, and what I also, I developed was on another sheet, if they get the correct number, I have something that pops up, says like good job Christian, to encourage him. And then I have something funny. If they got the wrong answer, something pops up. So they get kind of excited. So I kind of go through that, change it up. But the whole thing is, how do you make learning exciting and fun? That's, that's what I always try to think of.

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I love building things in Excel and then I use it in my courses. I would say I use. I created an it kept on evolving over time. It was a five stock portfolio where I don't know if you're familiar with. I think it's called stock history. If you hit equal stock history in Excel.

Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar with it. I haven't used it much but I know what you're talking about.

So if you try to plug it in that function, what I do is I really made it user friendly in those cells. Plug in the company's numbers and really what it did, it just evolved where I plugged in any kind of statistic you could think of finance that stock will calculate. And now I asked AI and I might be wrong in this. I said is there any model, any website out there that can calculate the Sharpe ratio for example or the the beta at a specific period of time for a company? So if you want to know from 2002 to 2003 what was their Sharpe ratio? Is there a website according to AI There isn't. And in this paper what I or in this Excel sheet what I developed was you can look up Microsoft stock and you can find any statistic of any time period and it calculates everything for you and you just have to plug it in. It's pretty in depth. And that was going a little further in it with some analysis on it. But I use that in a lot of my some of my financial modeling course not, not the one I taught with fmi but students really love learning that you can come up with creativity in Excel. I think that's the thing. You have so much creativity. I don't want them just to follow what I do. I'm coming up with this on my own. I stay up to like two in the morning thinking of different ideas, what to do. I try to figure out how to do it. So. And then some of the students are really getting it that you can really create some pretty cool things, especially with the, the data types. If you played with that under data, you can really pull some. And I use that with the five stock portfolio as well. And compare the beta today and, and the beta at a specific time for this company and you could see were they more risky back then compared to today or the trainer ratio. You really can compare a lot. How do they react during the recession? How do they act in 2007? Did the beta. Did the beta change then rather than just looking at the last five years?

Sure. Makes sense. No, that, that's great. I appreciate you sharing that one. All right, so this is the question we ask everybody. Then we're going to move into our Rapid Fire section, which I'll walk through how that works. First question is, before we jump into that, what's your favorite Excel shortcut? Do you have a go to shortcut or one you really like?

I would say the one I use the most, Control R fill. Right. Control D fill down. There's another one. I started using it called Control E Flash Fill, if you ever heard of it. I kind of like that one. I started using that one and for certain things you don't use it a lot, but that's a. It knows a pattern. So if you have Andrew Blazik and then I want my initials and I want initials and all names, it will just do it automatically, which is kind of cool.

Yeah. Using kind of AI and figuring out the patterns and fill in it. I don't use Flash fill much. I don't. I'm trying to think if I've used Control E, I'll have to remember that one next time I use Flash Fill.

And then. And then the other one I use Lies close alt ES for the special paste. Like. And students always like, professor, it messed up. I was like, got to hit all. Yes. Then I get confused. They're using a Mac. I'm like, oh, how do you do this?

I know I can't bring myself to use a Mac because of Excel. I'm like, it's just not going to happen.

I try to. I try to remember that.

Otherwise I would consider switching. But. All right, so this next section we call Rapid Fire. Here's how it works. If you listen to an episode, I know you've heard this before. We pretty much run every guest through it. There's about 10, 12 questions. And what happens is I ask you the question and you have to pick one answer or the other. You can't say it depends, even though it can depend in many situations. Just so we can see where you're thinking. If you had to go one way or the other where your thinking would be, then at the end, the one or two you're most passionate about, you can elaborate because we do realize there's more than just a kind of a simple yes or no. So, ready?

Yes.

Alrighty. Circular references in models. Yes or no?

No.

Vba.

Absolutely.

How about do you prefer a horizontal model, like lots of sheets, or vertical, where it's mostly built all in one sheet?

Ah, vertical.

Alrighty. What about dynamic arrays and models? Yes or no?

Yes, I'd use them especially vda.

What about Foley dynamic? Do you think we're there where people should be building models that are 100% dynamic arrays?

No.

Yeah, that's. That, that, that one. We get a few that say yes and quite a few that say no. That's a. Probably one of the more controversial ones right now. It's interesting to see the views from people. External workbook links, yes or no?

No.

Named ranges. Yes or no?

Some models, Some models. I do black holes. That's the only one I really used it on.

Okay, what about. Do you follow any kind of formal standards? Like, you know, some of these guides there, they're like fast or smart or any of those when you're building models?

No.

And then here's kind of a question in general for financial modelers. Do you think financial modelers should learn Python in Excel?

Yes. Yeah, I'll elaborate later, but yes.

Okay, perfect. We'll. We'll elaborate on that one. What about Power Query?

I like the visualization. I would say it's good to know. Definitely good to know.

Okay. What's your thoughts on Power Bi.

Use it a little bit. Not much. I think it's another one. It's good to go through a training, maybe a CFI training to kind of learn it.

Okay. Do you think Excel will ever die?

I hope not.

You're not the first to said, I hope not. I've had other people say, I just hope it's not in my lifetime. Will AI build the models for us in the future?

Yeah, I'll elaborate later on. I'll say no.

Okay, well, I'd love to get your elaboration on that one. That's definitely one that I get. A lot of thought on. Do you believe financial models are the number one corporate decision making tool?

I would say yes.

Okay, and what's your lookup function of choice? Do you have a favorite lookup function you like to use?

Yeah, look a function just because ease of use teaching students that haven't seen it and using a lot of models is choose functions function.

Okay. Yeah. I know choose is a very common one. So I believe you wanted to. I know there are a couple you wanted to elaborate on. One was around AI and building the models for us.

So I would say I think the big misconception with AI people fall into this trap and I. I hear some podcasts talk about it. I don't look at it as an intelligence. I look at as a gathering of information very quickly. It's a gathering of what humans have creative creativity and it brings it really close and it's not as creative of what humans have already done. So AI is awesome. I don't know if you've ever done this. I'll pull out ChatGPT. I'll be driving to work and I'll talk to. It sounds a little weird, but because I have an idea in my mind, something I want to create. I want to.

Sure.

You ever have that friend you want to talk through it like you want to ask questions. And I'm going through is this possible? I'm having these different ideas. It's awesome for creativity. Like if you want to come up with something that somebody else it helped creating that. That math problem. I have my son. I was really trying to think of something and it's great for creativity, but it starts with you of you being creative. I don't think maybe it'll change in the future. Right now I don't think it's close to really do that. And you. Even if it did, you have to have humans go through it. You have to see if it's. There's any errors. Even if it did. But then if you have a create it, you don't really know the program like I know it. I know my models inside and out. When I do it, I want to do it.

Yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna be fascinating to watch. But you know, I think even if let's say they do it, you still have that human judgment. You still have to understand it. Right. You still gotta validate it all. Even if it does the mechanics, which I think we'll get there on the mechanics, but I think there's always a human judgment element. Even if it figures out all the Mechanics.

So what's your opinion real quick on.

That is that I think they'll get there. I do think they'll build the models for us, but I think you're always going to have to have human judgment. Right. Validation of assumptions. The more complex the model, the longer it's going to take before we get there. The more simple the model, the sooner we'll get there. But I don't look at it and think AI is just going to do it. We stamp it and send it off to a client or that type of thing. I don't think we're maybe someday in the future, but not anytime soon. I don't think we're close to that. I say yes, but I say yes with. There's still going to be human validation, human judgment, human intuition. It's not going to be just the machine. And then there was one other you wanted to elaborate on. Was it power? Was it Python?

I think it might have been Python, yeah. Just a quick little. So we had a data analytics class and I kind of went off topic on that and I started to teach people R and R is more for, I would say economic, statistical stuff in that regard. And I kind of regret I did not do Python. But very similar language and how you learn those programs can do now some of the things it cannot do. It cannot do what Excel can do or Power BI or it's just built in Excel or vba. But I just think that for the different kind of what we create in that class through R was pretty incredible. We built with looking up stuff through the Fred website, which is linked to Excel, which is Federal Reserve St. Louis. And I built these buttons where it automatically updated was R through Excel. I think it's very powerful tool and I think everyone needs to learn Python language. Just the. You don't have to know all the coding. I mean I can really help us with that. But to really understand it, the graphs it can create and the visualization create and the data analytics, how it can analyze stuff, I think it's a very powerful. And we're just seeing the cuff of how it's connected to Excel. I mean slowly kind of going in there. I've been playing around with it. I just think in the next couple of years it can be very advanced. It's a very valuable tool to know. And if you're, if you're a young person looking for a job, if you could put down you have Python experience, I think that's huge in today's market.

Yeah, if I was starting my career over Again, I would definitely invest in it. Fortunately, I learned SQL pretty early on and that was incredibly helpful. But today with AI, I think, you know, I would recommend to people, it'd be good to at least know the basics, at least know enough to help automate some things, to do some charts. Like I said, you don't need to be a full on programmer, you need to know enough to use AI and to be intelligent with it, so you at least have the tool in your tool belt. I don't think you need to be an expert by any means.

I agree and I, I've taken some courses on it. Unfortunately, some of those Python teachers are super boring. It's hard to pay attention watching a video, like beyond boring. But I would, I would recommend trying to learn the basics, find a YouTube channel, maybe talk, talk about it and all you need to practice, think about something you want to do with Python in Excel. Go to AI, ask how do I do this? And that's the best way to learn. Like think of something, how to do it, what you want to do, and then try to go and do it. And then it's better than watch taking a certificate. They're boring, very boring.

Love it. No, it's great to learn and to practice. All right, so we're just about out of time. I just have two questions left for you and then we'll let you go. First one, if you could offer one piece of advice to our audience, people listening to be a better financial modeler, what would be the number one piece of advice you'd offer people?

I would say get to know Excel. Really know how to make a beautiful financial make it look nice, do the basics nice, don't make it look sloppy and think you're just gonna do the numbers correct. You know what I do, I would go to like follow people like you. There's a lot of people on LinkedIn that give a lot of expert tips really quick. That's I think, the best way to learn and continue learning Excel. Just think of, and I would say number one thing, think of anything you want to do creative in Excel. Go to AI and say, how do I do this and learn how to do it. I think that makes it fun. And then you learn when it's fun.

Isn't it amazing how AI has changed our ability to learn? I'm working on a course right now and how much I'm relying on AI to help me with things. I'm like, this would have taken me so much longer. And it's not that AI is building the course but it's clearly helping me, and it's just amazing.

Yeah. And you probably agree with this. AI is doing a couple things. It's creating a section of people. I don't mean to say it this way, but makes you dumber because you're. You're counting on AI, you're not learning, and then it's causing another group of people who want to learn, and it. Learning at an extreme rate, like very fast rate, and you get to pick up stuff and you're not stuck, and you're actually learning with AI. So it's a. It's amazing what we're. Because we always think the AI are not learning. And I'm learning a lot through AI.

Yeah, you definitely can learn a lot. And there are definitely moments where I catch myself depending too much on AI, and I'm kind of being lazy and not learning. But, you know, for certain things, maybe it's something I don't want to learn, and I'm okay with that. Other times, it's like, I probably should put a little more effort here, but I totally know what you mean. There are people that are just using it to not to learn at all. Just, hey, what's the easiest way to get things done in life? And then there are others that are just speeding up their learning exponentially with the tool.

Yeah.

All right, so last question, Drew. If our audience wants to learn more about you or potentially get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

So it's a pretty new website I created. Now they want to do this for a while. You could go to Logos, L O G O S and A n d markets.com logos and markets. That's my YouTube channel called that. I do a lot of, A lot of stuff. I put my courses by putting on YouTube and let me, if they want to contact me, could do that. I got a couple things I'm working on. I'm creating these modules with Excel that could help you with the, say, the FMI exam or the AFM exam. I'm also taking the CFA level one. I'm going to create a bunch of Excel sheets to help with that as well for the level one. And, and also I'm. I'm starting something new. It's called a professional aspect of it, where I'm going to meet with some corporate finance and see if I could create these modules for onboarding for new hires. So instead of looking over the shoulder to learn how to do their. Their method, their process, I would like to create that for them. And they could use that, give it to new people and they could practice until they become very efficient quick. And there's a grading scale to it where you as a manager would know if they're ready to be on the live system. So logos and markets love it.

We'll definitely put that in the show notes. And thank you for chatting with me to today Drew. I really enjoyed the conversation and you know, best of luck with all the different projects you have going on. Sounds like doing a lot of great things. So thanks again.

Thank you Paul for having me. Really appreciate it was fun.

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