Financial Modeling Techniques for Global FP&A Success with Carolina Lago

What I think is most important is the insights that the data can generate than the data itself. It's useless if you just try to keep collecting data from your volume, from your products, about your opponent. I like so much the financial modeling itself because it can transform data into something so you can actually make decisions on top of that data. Financial modeling, it's not just to replicate actors, which is a big mistake that people make. And if you can go back and model, modulate your assumptions better as you learn about the company.

What are two tips you found that helped you with building, budgeting and forecasting models?

Well, I think knowing the structure of the company, knowing the business well, and knowing the.

Welcome to Financial Modeler's Corner where we discuss the art and science of financial modeling with your host, Paul Barnhurst. Financial Modeler's Corner is sponsored by Financial Modeling Institute. Welcome to Financial Modeler's Corner. I am your host, Paul Barnhurst. This is a brand new podcast where we talk all about the art and science of financial modeling with distinguished financial modelers from around the globe. Financial's Modeler Corner podcast is brought to you by Financial Modeling Institute. FMI offers the most respected accreditations in financial modeling. I'm excited to welcome on the show Carolina Lyo. Welcome to the show.

Hi Paul. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, excited to have you. So, you know one of the first questions we'd like to ask all of our guests so everybody gets the same question. Tell me that horror story. What's the worst financial model you've ever seen?

Well, I can say that the worst one was very early in my career. I inherited one and I had to try to change it and I spent probably a couple weeks trying to make it better and I couldn't. It was just too full of hard coded numbers and I had to find everything the way around and no design at all. But back then, the worst is I was not experienced either. So it was pretty hard to rebuild it and get to the final outcome that I needed to keep working with it. But it was horrible. That was a nightmare.

I can imagine. Yeah. Anytime you have a lot of hard codes, it's rough.

Yes.

So what did you learn from that experience? What was your takeaway from that model?

Well, I think the first thing I learned about financial modeling was not to use hard code and don't link outside of the spreadsheet. If you link, there is like a whole process that you need to go through. And I used to have one job that the models were all linked together. There was like five or six Spreadsheets but you need to open all of them at once and use them. All of them at once and save as workspace. So there was all this process around just because they're linked out. And so it was the first thing I decided in my career. No hard code, no external links and I've been doing that ever since. So I think it was the first lesson ever.

Those are probably two good points. I've used external workbook links but I try to use them sparingly and I agree, if you can avoid them, you should.

Yeah.

As far as hard codes, just don't use them. Pretty simple. So next question I have for you is why don't you tell us about yourself, your background and what you're doing today.

Well, I've been in FPNA for my whole entire career. Since the very beginning, I think maybe a couple years, only a year and a half, only in commercial finance. But after that FP&A all the time it's been more than 15 years, a little less than 20. I don't like to say 20, it's too much but 15 plus years is a good number. And it's been in FP&A since then and different companies, different countries, all over the world. I started in Brazil with a company that is finance service, credit card company and it was a huge amazing experience because I get to see big transactions, big volume and it's important company. I participate on an IPO too which is great from the standard of FP and A that you can help the people that is putting together all the documentation for the IPO and seeing a company being listed for. For the first time. It's amazing. It was great experience and ever since then, software implementations planning, software implementation in different departments all over the company that I was supporting. So I've seen a little bit of everything which was amazing in terms of career.

Yeah, no, that is pretty amazing to get to see all those different things. And yeah, I've never been part of a company going public came close once with one of the companies I worked with but we ended up not going public. I've seen some split outs and M and A and stuff and going public would be a fun one to see.

It is very fun.

I bet. So the first question I want to ask you is about your LinkedIn profile. So on your profile you share a quote. The quote says data is only useful if it can be transformed into actionable insights. So why, why do you think that is? And you know, how do we make sure we're turning it into Actionable insights. What does that mean for you? Kind of elaborate on that quote.

It does. This phrase, this quote resonates so much with me because I've seen so many companies, especially after I started to do more consulting work and smaller companies that is collecting data everywhere and they have huge amount of data and they don't know how to transform that into decisions. They just get lost. So what I think it's most important is the insights that the data can generate than the data itself. So it's useless if you just try to keep collecting data from your volume, from your products, about your opponents or anything like that, and then you bring inside and you don't know what to do with it. So that's why I like so much the financial modeling itself, because it can transform data into something so you can actually make decisions on top of that data. And that's for everything, not only for data, but for information also. I see people collecting information, reading articles and not doing anything about it. So if you don't take insights out of the data, the information and the articles and everything that you learn, it's useless. You go nowhere.

So how do you help? You say you've worked with a lot of small companies that have collected a lot of data, so how do you help them transform that into actionable insights?

You have to do a step back. Sometimes you are like collecting data, actually even buying data, market research and things like that. And you don't apply inside. You don't have information about your own company, your own numbers. So that's where the financial modeling comes so much in place. Because you can put all of that data and that information, that knowledge that you bring in from data to iterate with your own numbers and then it's going to become something that will help you to take decisions. So that's why I like financial modeling so much.

So as you mentioned, your newsletter came from Tactic, which is a framework you created as part of your business. What does that framework stand for?

Okay, so Tactic is target assets, calculations, tools, insights and correlations. So you start with the target, which is the question that you need to answer with that financial model. Then you go to the assets, which is all data that you have to answer the question of everything that is available to you right, right on that moment. Then they go to calculations, which is all the schedules that you're going to need or the different types of models you might need. Because it might not be just a schedule, you might need to go a little deeper on cost, for example, depending on the question that you need to answer. And then you go to the tools which are the analysis that you're going to do on top. After you build the actual model, you're going to go on the tools, which is analysis or scenarios or something like that. And then you get the insights, which is the answer to the question and the correlation, which is the next step. What are you going to do now? So now you answer that question, but what is the next step? Maybe you need another analysis or maybe you need to take a decision that's the correlation to that. So it's basically a framework that you go on and you come back. For example, if you have a question which is the target, and then you go to the assets, you don't have enough data, or probably you have that data, but it comes another question, then you go back to the target. So you can go on and go back to each one of the steps. So it's like a pyramid that you can go on and go back. So it's very territory.

Yeah, makes sense. It's iterative. You don't always just go one through six. You may go back and forth and let's see if I got it right. So tactic, target, assets, calculation tools, insights and correlation.

Exactly. Yeah. And I've been doing this this way since probably 10 years ago. And it works great because you can go on and go back and it makes like a modular type of financial model which is easier to. To work with.

Got it. No, that. That makes sense. Thank you for sharing that.

Yeah.

And so who is your newsletter for? What's your primary audience?

I think probably for anybody that would like to learn more about financial modeling and on. When I first began, I target a little bit the new professionals and people that were new to FP&A and to financial modeling. But I learned that there are a lot of people on different levels of the company and even different areas of the company that want to learn more about financial modeling. And they're reading my newsletter. So they're the most active learners from my newsletter. And it was a kind of, kind of surprise for me. And I think it's great. It's a very, very varied audience, I think.

Yeah, it's really interesting. It's surprising sometimes how you get different people from areas of the business to want to understand it. We had our best practice FP and a course we did. And we had an engineer that decided to attend the course. Yeah, right. And so it's just totally different than the normal audience we get. But it was good. It was good to have his thoughts. And I Think, you know, people want to understand other parts of the business, just like we in finance want to understand the rest of the business.

Exactly, yeah.

So in your newsletter you share a process, kind of a roadmap to understanding a business through financial modeling. Can you talk a little bit about that process? How can someone better understand a business through financial modeling? How's that work, in your opinion?

Yeah, I use financial modeling more as a tool for professionals than a tool for the company. Because you can argue that companies can just put planning software to work and they don't actually need financial modeling in Excel. But that's why I teach in Excel, because I think you can learn so much from building a model and you can go on and build like a real company, like a real world company, a listed company, probably because it's easy to find the information. So I share this few steps, which is something that I'm going to use during my course. It's the capstone project for them. They're going to go and try to find something that they want to model, but it's going to be different for each person. Some people will want to try to understand a company better. Some other people try to understand their own company. So it's like very flexible. You can be very flexible using that. So you can go on, pull the information that you have, the historical information, and that's the roadmap. That's what the roadmap is about. You can pull the historical information and then you try to build the simplest model that you can with that information. It's not going to be exact. And I always tell people, don't go on and try to replicate actuals. You're not going to be able to. Because actuals, there's so many details on the middle of the. You're not going to be able to financial modeling, it's not just to replicate actors, which is a big mistake that people make. What is on the financial model, it's not real, it's a projection. So you need to take as a projection. So you gotta come up with assumptions and try to project the next years and see if it makes sense with what the company has already reported as actuals. And then you're going to start to learn about the company. As you adjust those assumptions and you adjust those calculations, you're going to learn more and more about the company. And that comes back to my framework. Because if you apply the framework and you're able to come back. So if you put the simplest model that you can and then you learn that you need more Data for some type of calculation. Then you go back to the assets and try to find more data and try to probably try to replicate the data, the real data. The goal here is not to make a model for investors. You don't want to be that precise. You want to learn about the business. So you go on and you try to iterate and you go back and you find more data and then you go on again and then you read an article that says something about their way they handle their working capital. Then you go back to your model, you try to put that on your model. As more you do it, the more you learn about the company. So I advise people if they want to break into a business or if they want to learn about their competitors or if they want to probably go, they're participating on a job interview or if they just want to learn for fun, because it's always fun to learn. Right. And if you go and do that, you're going to be able to learn about the company just by trying to model it and not trying to be precise about it, not trying to be perfectionist about it.

Sure. I mean, the reality is any model is forward looking. It's never going to be perfect. You know, as George Box has a famous quote where he said, you know, all models are wrong, some are useful.

Exactly. That's exactly what it is.

And you know, when you talked about assumptions, I couldn't help but think, I remember my first finance teacher in my MBA finance specialization. You know, he would always make us do a write up before we did any of our actual modeling where he'd review the spreadsheet. And one of the things we were always required to do was apply a Porter's five forces, kind of a strategic framework to the company. So we were spending a lot of time understanding the company. And then he wasn't so much concerned about what the model said. He was more concerned of, hey, did we use the, did we use reasonable assumptions? I almost said right assumptions, but there's no such thing. Did we use reasonable assumptions and can we support what we've done? Because right. With most modeling exercises there are exceptions, but especially in the real world, rarely is there a right answer. There is a range of answers.

Exactly. And if you can go back, modulate your assumptions better as you learn about the company, as you learn better about the company, then you're gonna have a rounded model. If you try to get it right in the first time and it's fine. You're gonna do a model and that's it. It's just no, it's gonna be so wrong that it cannot be useful.

So hopefully the balance sheet balances. That's all you want the first time. If you've done that, you've done well.

Yes, exactly.

So I know you recently launched your own financial modeling course.

Yes.

And I would love to learn first. What did you learn from that experience? How did it help you become a better modeler preparing that course?

When you teach, you need to simplify the concepts so much because you need to pass and you need it to make sense to other people. I think you learn even more of what you didn't know you knew already. So you have to put on simple concepts and try to simplify and try to make it intelligible, let's say. So I'm loving it. I'm loving this new experience. I taught before on corporate trainings, but not to the public. Open like this, with different people on the class at the same time, different backgrounds, different levels of management too. And it's awesome. I'm loving it. Loving putting everything together.

Awesome. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I know. I love teaching as well. And it definitely forces you to understand a subject in simple terms. If you want to know if you understand something, teach it to others.

If you.

And if they understand what you're teaching, then you probably have a pretty good grasp of the concepts. If they're lost, you don't know it as well as you think you do.

Exactly. Yeah.

So.

And it's hard. It's harder than you think. Like simplifying things. It's really hard.

Yeah. Well, that leads to. And I've shared this on many episodes. Probably one of my other favorite quotes that I share all the time is simple is hard, complex is easy. And the example I give is writing a super long if statement is usually easy, but it's not. It's rarely the best way to solve it. Usually you probably should put in another table or a helper column or using some kind of lookup that takes more time. But it's much more simple when you're all done. And it's easier to follow, not necessarily easier to create which. Which I think are two different things.

Yeah. And that's something else that comes to my mind now. When you're putting together a model, you have to think about the next person that is going to use and. Yeah, because it's not only teaching, but trying to simplify on a way that it's not only the user, but the next person that's going to have to update the model, which is really hard to. To make it like a legacy and leave a legacy behind. That's not easy.

No, I agree. And as my Excel book says, there's a joke in there. It says, what is a broken spreadsheet? The new person's problem.

Exactly right.

And so you really do need to think about how you build things. It's hard enough to understand how somebody thinks, let alone if they haven't followed any good design principles, then it becomes pretty much impossible.

Yeah. Yeah.

So tell me, who's the target audience for your course? I know you built this course with an audience in mind, so who's kind of your target audience? In today's business world, financial modeling skills are more important than ever. With Financial Modeling Institute's Advanced Financial Modeler accreditation program, you can become recognized as an expert in the field by validating your financial modeling skills. Join the Financial Modeling Institute's community of top financial modelers, gain access to extensive learning resources, and attain the prestigious Advanced Financial Modeler accreditation. Visit www.fminstitute.com podcast and use code podcast to save 15% when you reg.

Here. In the beginning, I was targeting people that are beginning financial modeling because what I think it would save a lot of people's time is if you start with the three statement model. And a lot of people want to start about learning about valuation or M and A models because it's more fun and exciting and everything and they forget about the three statement model. And the three statement model for me is the foundation for everything. So I thought of people first that was beginning their career. But that's not the target that I reached. Actually. I have people that are directors and, and I see there is a pattern there because there's a lot of people with this huge gap in their career about the three statement model because we in FP and A usually we don't do that. Especially if you work on a big corporation, you don't actually do the Excel 3 statement model unless you are probably leading implementation of a planning software. That's how I learned modeling back then, 10, 15 years ago. But if you're not doing that, you don't actually need to do a full model yourself. You can just pull from the planning software. So there's a lot of people that fill this gap and it's. They are leading M and A transactions, they're leading big IPOs or things like that. And they, they need to know, they need to know that how to put together. Not because they're going to do it for the company, but because this brings a skill that you can think in terms of system systems and the financial model is a system. If you get to learn it well, you get it in your head, then it's easier to think in terms of systems and knowing when you change something, when you take one decision, how it's going to flow through the statements, how it's going to flow through your finances. And you can do this pretty well if you learn how to do the financial model from scratch and learn how to build it without templates. So that's why I advocate so much against templates, because it's not, I, I don't see any harm on them. They're just useless. If you cannot make, you cannot make one template that goes for any business or any occasion. So that's why I like to teach and to, I like people to learn the three statement models like building from the ground up. And I think this builds this skill in their heads. So, yeah, answering to your question, all kinds of people, I would say. And it's a very, very, I have one starting next week. It's a very varied audience and we have people from all over the place and different positions and even people that are not finance.

Got it. Well, exciting. Well, I hope that goes well for you. Good luck with that launch. I know you spent a big part of your career in FP&A, so I'm going to ask an FP&A question here.

Sure.

Any tips for those who are working in FPA that you found that helps you maybe, you know, one or two tips that helps you the most in building robust budgeting and forecasting models. Because I know those are different than an M and a model or an investment model or, you know, an LBO or whatever. So maybe one or two tips you found that helped you with building budgeting and forecasting models.

Well, I think knowing the structure of the company, knowing the business well, and knowing the impact of any decision in the business. So if you're able to play with scenarios and even if you're in a company that has a planning software, just go on your Excel, try to replicate the three statement model, try to build scenarios on top of it just for your learning. So my, my greatest tip for any, any professional in FP and A or in other areas too, but especially in FP and A, when you're partnering with the business, is learning the business well, learning from the other side, from the operation side. And to do that you need to experiment with the model, which is kind of impossible to do on a planning software. On a planning software when you Put it there. Some. Some of them have the sandbox, but it's not that easy. It's not that flexible. But create your sandbox in Excel because it's more flexible. Create it, like, try to replicate as much as you can the system and what's going on in the company, even if it's not your area. I mean, if I. I am a business partner for the IT department, for example. But sometimes the decisions that the IT department will take will influence everywhere else. So it's something that you need to be aware of. What are the impacts on the finances, not only on your small little area. So that's why I like so much to have the three statement know the impact of every operation, of every finance decisions. On the three statements.

Yeah. So if I'm hearing you right, I mean, the biggest advice is really learning the business. Learning how the statements interact. Learning how changes and decisions impact the numbers.

Yeah, exactly. And you can do that by learning financial modeling. I think it's the best skill that somebody can learn.

So I know recently you decided to torture yourself. I shouldn't use that word. But you decided to take the Advanced Financial Modeler certification. Yes, I took it the same weekend. It was actually fun. I joke, but as someone who's an advanced or experienced modeler, you know, you've had nearly two decades of experience in finance. Why did you decide to take the test now?

First of all, I hadn't heard about the test when I was locked in the office. I was not out in the world. So I never needed before because I was not applying to jobs or anything. Even now, I'm not. But when I started to teach, I found that this would be good to know. Like, if I am to teach something, I need to at least know if I can do it. Hopefully I can. By the. Probably by the time that we publish that, I will know, but hopefully I can. It's a very fun test, and I think it was a fun experience, but I wanted to know that I could do it, and I thought it was very respectful accreditation. I really like it the way it's processed and how serious it is, and I really like the way it's laid out. The AFM and even the models of the AFM I adopted after the test, it was a little. It's a little different from what I did before, and I adopted a lot of the. Of the way the. The AFM is done to my teaching and to my classes. And I'm trying to replicate the way it's taught on the afm. Maybe if people Go through my courses and do all the practices. I'm. I'm putting like four or five case studies, and if they go through all five of them and then practicing for time, I think that was the biggest challenge is the time of the afm, but maybe they'll be able even to. To do the AFM easily. So that's. That was a little bit of my goal. It's also prepare people to the AFM one day. Be able to prepare people to the afm.

Got it. That makes a lot of sense. So it really. You wanted to kind of broaden your skills, prove yourself, see different ways of doing it. You really appreciated the organization, respected what they do. So.

Yeah.

Makes a. Makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. And it was fun, right? Did you like it or.

It was really good practicing. My biggest challenge was just finding time to study, but I enjoyed the process. I thought that it was very professional. It's well done. I think it's a good learning experience. And obviously I'm a big fan. I mean, they sponsor this podcast and I know they're the company and in. Who's the executive director there. Wow. And I encourage people to take it. I'm a big believer that it's. It's worth the investment.

Yeah. And it was so fun that you. You keep doing the cases and you want to do more and one more and one more to be your own time. So it becomes like a video game. But it was fun.

Kind of like financial modeling, World Cup. It's a video game. Everybody's trying to.

Yeah.

Well, they get done quickly. I've done that a few times. It's fun. That's another one I enjoy. So we have a couple more questions, then we're going to move to our rapid fire section. So before we get there, what's your favorite Excel shortcut?

I would say Control C ots, because that's. I'm not very big fan of shortcuts. I use the mouse a lot, which was something that I had to change a little bit for the AFM because of time. But that's the one that I use most.

Yeah. Control C, I think just about everybody uses, so that doesn't surprise me. Yeah.

The LTS after.

Yep. And the alt. Yep. Know both those. So not a big shortcut. I've become more and more of a shortcut person, but I use the mouse still a fair amount. Probably more than.

Yeah, me too. Me too.

So I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm usually the one on the other side going, yeah, yeah, shortcuts are nice, but. So next question for you. Here is what is one thing you have learned about modeling over your career that has saved you the most time?

I think simplification would be because if you try, if you try to make it simple, it's probably going to take a little more time in the beginning. But if you do over and over and you become accustomed to it, it's going to save you time. If you do all every time the same way on the same process, and you simplify this process, well, that's what saves you more time. And then you leave the complexities that needed to be there for later. You will start by doing the simplest that you can and then you build the complexities on top of it if you have to.

So one follow up question. How do you go about making it simple? Like when you say simple, can you give an example?

The simplest formulas that you can know, if you can know nested ifs mostly. No. And the simplest formulas that you can, and all the calculations in place. And I always repeat the inputs, all the assumptions I repeat on the top of each schedule. So it's right there. And it's easy to link. I don't have to keep going back and forth, minimize mistakes and everything. But if you have the same way to work every time and you keep repeating that, then when you open an older model or other client's model, it's easy to see what you did, it's easy to find out because it's simple.

Yeah, the link and repeat is always a good one.

Yes.

Putting it on top of your schedules, making sure your assumptions are very clear, keeping the formulas short and concise when possible, as I've heard some people say, the owners, the people you're building a model for, they will complicate it more than you want. So start out as simple as possible.

Yes. So then you build the complexity after. So as long as you have the inputs, the calculations and the outputs, the output is going to be there. So if you need to complex the calculation later because somebody asked you something else, or you need to probably get more detail, probably break up a number between regions or something like that, you're going to change the middle of it, but the outputs are already there, it's already linked to the right place. So it becomes sort of like a modular model. If you do that way, and if you always do the same way for your models, it's going to be easy for people that work for you, that work with you, that you work for, and it's going to Be easy for yourself, too, because then you open a model and then you already know what's going on.

Yeah, no, no doubt about it. If you're disciplined in your design and you're keeping it simple, it's going to be easy for everybody to follow your model. Or at least easier. Maybe not always easy, but definitely easy.

Yeah.

All right, so we're going to move to the rapid fire section. I have roughly 10 questions here. So here's the ground rules. If you haven't done this before. So I asked the question. You can't say it depends because that's the easy answer for all of them. You have to pick a side on each question. Then at the end, you can take, you know, one or two that you want to elaborate on and tell me why you gave the answer. You did. Because I realized there's nuance to every single one of these questions. So, you ready?

Yeah.

All right. Circular or no? Circular references and models?

No, but.

All right, well, let you add some of that, but at the end, I'm not surprised. VBA or no vba?

No. Vba.

Horizontal or vertical model. Very cool. Excel dynamic arrays in your model, yes or no?

Not yet.

External workbook links, yes or no?

No.

I already knew the answer to that one. You made it clear earlier.

Yeah.

Named ranges or no named ranges in your model?

Sometimes.

Okay, that works. Do you follow a formal standards board when you're building your models, like Fast or Smart or some of the others that are out there?

No other formal. My. My own Patrick that.

That works. I think that's a lot of people answer with that one. Will Excel ever die?

No.

Will AI build the models for us in the future?

It will, but I'm not sure it'll work.

Here's one for you. Should you use she cell protection in your models, yes or no?

I don't like it.

Okay. Do you believe financial models are the number one corporate decision making tool?

Yes. Not exactly on Excel, but yes.

Okay, and then what is your lookup function of choice? Vlookup Index Match xlookup or Choose Index match. Index match for sure. Got it. All right, so I know you put a but on the circular reference one. Was that one you wanted to elaborate on?

Yes. I don't like to use it and I mostly don't use it, but I think people should understand and know how to use and know how to break it, because things can happen and you might need to have it at some point. And the fun fact is I did it for my AFM and now I am terrified that this will make me not pass because there was a bit of a show off, I think I had time so I was like, okay, let me do a switch here for the circular, circular reference. And now I'm not sure if this was the thing that made me not pass and I'm terrified about it. But to be honest, I think people need to learn about it and know how to break it because you might need to use at some point. And it sort of works like a scenario. Depending on how precise you did your calculation, sometimes you will need it. And I know a lot of people have been using VBA to calculate better. I don't like VBA at all. And that's a no, no, no, but circular reference.

Was that a no on vba? I couldn't tell. No.

No, it was a no, actually.

Yeah, I know, I'm kidding.

I think VBA is being replaced totally by other tools because vba, it's not very, it's not very friendly, not, not very user friendly, especially if you learn how to code. I could do some VBA a long time ago, it's. I had my time with vba, but now I think it's going to be totally replaced by Python and other types of tools. They are being integrated inside Excel Lambda. I don't know if it totally replaces vba, but it does a lot of the work. I cannot say yet because I'm not diving yet into the lambda word, but that's what I think for now.

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of differing opinions on it. Obviously there's a number of people think it will go away. There's some that they'll create an emulator and it'll work in the cloud. But the reality is Microsoft has built tools around it that you can do many of the things that could only be done with VBA other ways, whether that be Power Query, Lambda Script, Office Script and many others that they've added to a Python coming Power Automate that can link into Excel. They really have done a lot of things to decrease the dependency on vba.

Yeah, I just like that it becomes a black box and it's not so clear. So much for the user. If you try to just put a script on it, how they came up with that. So as long as it's not for calculation, if you do it to make your life easier or to automate things, fine. But sometimes they do VBAs for calculation that you press a button and it calculates all the model without formulas, without everything. I don't like that.

Yeah, I hear you. And I've had a few other people who said that. Hey, VBA for formatting, fine. Beyond that, you don't need it.

Exactly.

There's a lot of differing opinions there. I'm not one who use VBA very often, so I can appreciate that. But I can understand those that use it. Right. It's like any of this. There's a reason. These are the questions. Because we can debate it back and forth forever.

Yeah, that's true.

All right, so we have just two questions left for you. Then we'll let you go. Really enjoyed the time here. So the first question is, if I allow you to give one piece of advice to our audience to be a better financial modeler, if there's one thing they could do today, what's that one thing you're going to recommend?

I'll go with simplicity, I think, being simple, trying to understand what you need to do and do it the simplest way you can without showing off, without complications. That's the best advice that I can. I can get.

Love it. And last question. If our audience wants to learn more about you or get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

I'm very active on LinkedIn and also my website, and I think I'm now trying to get into YouTube because I just posted the video and a lot of people asking me for more, sending me messages and asking me for more, but I just don't find time to do that. But yeah, LinkedIn is the best way to find me. And I love to connect with people and my newsletter too, and the link is on my. On my LinkedIn profile too. And just answer replying the email from a newsletter and I'll get it right away. And I always reply to everybody that talks to me.

Great. So we'll Definitely put your LinkedIn in the show notes so everybody knows how to get a hold of you. And thank you for joining me today. Enjoyed the opportunity to chat and, you know, best of luck with your course launch and all the different things you're doing.

Thank you. Thank you, Paul. It was an honor to be here.

Yeah. I appreciate you joining me for the show.

Thank you.

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