How Financial Modelers Rely on Memorability, Not Accuracy, to Get Ahead in Excel with Finance Bro

People think it's all about finance. They put too much emphasis on part of financial model. But in reality, it has nothing to do with finance. It's all about looks and vibes. I always like to say if you're an intern, if you do well during the summer, they'll remember you for a few months, maybe a year. But if you shit your pants during the summer, they're gonna remember you and talk about you forever.

So what has been your most memorable thing you've done where you just look like a fool?

Your average finance brother, known for his sharp humor and unapologetic takes on corporate life, business school and Excel.

With over 650,000 followers across Instagram, TikTok and beyond, he's roasting corporate culture, cracking.

Excel jokes and maximizing shareholder value like it's a lifestyle. From business school memes to corporate slang fluency, this guy is a walking, talking.

Keyboard shortcut wielding legend.

People use Excel because I told them to. I think people forget that I was the person who made Excel popular. I said everyone should start using Excel and then a few people started using it and more people started using it. And now it's snowballed so big that people forget that I was the original person behind this trend.

I'm curious. You have a go to joke you like to use.

The good thing I like about my bedroom setup here is that the joke writes itself. I don't even need to make the joke. The joke is already there.

I would love to know, what do you do? What's your move when you got a meeting with the client and the model break?

First of all, before I answer that question, my models don't break. My models, they're rock solid. Right? But most people have been there. What I would do if I was in that situation, which I would never be in.

Foreigners Corner is the world's premier modeling podcast. It is brought to you by Financial Modeling Institute, the world's leading financial modeling accreditation organization. Before we get into this week's episode, I just want to let you know this episode is fictional. Your average finance bro is a comedian and the whole idea was to have a little bit of fun. So as you listen to the episode, hopefully you get a few laughs out of it. It's something totally new. We're trying. If you enjoyed it, you want me to do a few more things like this from time to time. Let me know if you thought it was terrible, let me know as well. But I just wanted to level set so you don't listen to the first answer and be like what in the world is going on when he tells you he was the founder and CEO of Goldman Sachs? This was all about having fun. So remember, have fun with modeling, have fun with Excel, and have a few laughs during this episode. Thank you. Welcome to Financial Modeler's Corner. I am your host, Paul Barnhurst, AKA the FPA guy. And this is a podcast where we talk all about the art and science of financial modeling with distinguished financial modelers from around the globe. The Financial Modelers Corner podcast is brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. FMI offers the most respected accreditations in financial modeling. That's why I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler last year and I signed up for the Chartered Financial Modeler this year. I am thrilled this week. Really excited for our guest. This is a special guest that everybody can relate to because we've all been average at one time or another. So we're going to welcome on the show your average finance bro. Welcome to the show.

Thank you. It's great to be here.

Really excited to have you. So here, here's the background for our average finance bro. He is the founder and CEO of Goldman Sachs. How long have you been with Goldman now?

I can't even, I can't even count how many years it's been. It's been a long time.

Chairman of the New York Stock Exchange and inventor of the discounted cash flow model. He is commonly referred to as the Michael Jordan of finance. Why not LeBron James?

So, I mean, I got the, I got the nickname, you know, way back when, when, when finance was just getting big and LeBron is kind of newer. So that's. I just stuck with it.

Got it. I see in his free time, he volunteers at for profit companies who are having cash flow issues in order to make sure that their shareholders are well taken care of. This year marks his 10th year in a row receiving the Wall Street Journal's Shareholder Value Maximizer of the Year award. Did I, did I cover it all? Anything else I should have included in that bio?

I mean, we could go on, we could go on for hours, but I think that's a good enough summary.

All right, great. Well, you know, let's jump into the questions. I think we'll have some fun unique answers here. So tell me first, before we jump into the questions, how do you get a bed sheet that says freak in the sheets?

Oh, this is, you know, it's my regular bed set. I've had it for, since I was a kid, so a long time. And yeah, honestly, I don't know why more People don't have it because I think it adds a really nice decor and a really nice vibe to the room.

Yeah, I'll go check with my wife and see if she likes the idea.

I'm sure she will.

Yeah, I bet all the, all the frame pictures she'll be huge on. So how have you become known as such a strong financial modeler? I mean, you're known throughout the industry.

So there could be, you know, there's a million different answers to this question, but I'd say it all comes down really to two things. So there's practice and memorability. So, you know, let's start with practice. I've been financially financial modeling since I was in skill, right. So even if someone you know is doing slightly better, you know this or slightly better that, just how much time I've had, how much more time I've had over them will just make me a better financial modeler than they. Than they are. Like, I think you can agree that, you know, the more time you put into it, the better you'll be.

Got it. Well, you know, I've heard your models are pretty memorable. A lot of people remember them. Why is that?

Yeah, so I mean, memorability, honestly, I'd say it's even more important than practice. So people remember my financial models because they're in the news all the time, because I inflate the numbers to help improve the stock price. So now when people think of me, they're like, oh, I remember that financial model. I remember Enron's financial model. I remember. Right. So it's very memorable. And you know, just to highlight how important memorability is, I always tell, you know, when interns and when students come and ask me for advice, I always like to say, if you're an intern, if you do well during the summer, they'll remember you for a few months, maybe a year. But if you your pants during the summer, they're going to remember you and talk about you forever. So memorability is extremely important.

So what has been your most memorable thing you've done where you've just looked like a fool?

I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about that on this show. So.

You're bleeding. The fifth is what I heard.

That's exactly what I'm doing.

Oh, man, that's no fun.

Yeah, yeah.

All right, well, we'll let you go on that one. I won't press you too hard. You know, a question we ask all of our guests and I want to get your opinion how Would you define financial modeling? If I asked you to define what qualifies as a financial model, how would you answer that?

I think this is a pretty easy answer. Financial modeling, the definition, it's a form of seduction. There's really nothing more attractive than someone who can build a good dcf. I'm pretty sure that's actually how caveman and cave woman used to mate back in the day. They use as a mating technique, like, I know some birds have, you know, fancy noises and calls, or they show their feathers. You know, financial models is. Is what people use. Right. And regarding, you know, what qualifies as a financial model, people think it's all about finance. They put too much emphasis on the financial part of financial model, but in reality, it has nothing to do with finance. It's all about looks and vibes. Right. If you pull up a spreadsheet and I'm like, wow, that's. That looks complicated and impressive, it's a good financial model. It doesn't even matter, you know, what it's about or what's on it, because if people don't understand it, they can't judge it. They just use the looks and the vibes. So, you know, there's nothing specific to qualify financial model. It's just about how it makes you feel.

Interesting.

You know, I've.

This week alone, you've brought up a form of seduction. I had a guest who brought up the James Bond philosophy to explain budgeting. Are you familiar with the James Bond philosophy?

I'm not. I'm not.

This was around budgeting and planning, but he said basically, you have to know when it's time to metaphorically shoot somebody and when it's metaphorically time to seduce somebody.

Yeah. I mean, from my end, I. You know, I'm. I'm just in the. In the seduction business, really.

So you. You don't shoot anyone?

I don't. I don't.

That's good.

Yeah.

Tell us about the worst model you've ever built. I mean, I know you've inflated a lot of stock prices, but tell us that horror story I'm sure you have to have.

So, I mean, I don't know if it's. It's the worst or the. Or honestly, it could have been the best. It's definitely the most unique. I once built a model that analyzes how many models I've built, so how many cells I've used, how many spreadsheets I've made, how many workbooks I've used, et cetera, total cash flow. You know, I was Actually even thinking about building a model that analyzed that model, which analyzed all the models I built, and. I don't know, I could go on with that chain forever. I don't know how many I should stop at. Yeah.

So the first question is, how many external workbook links, or did you use Power Query to connect all those models?

External links. External links. And there were. There were a lot. Honestly, I couldn't even give you a number because it's not. It's too long to memorize. Got it.

Wow, that's pretty impressive. Or, you know, you might have to share that model with us someday so we can all analyze it.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

All right. We'll keep that in mind. All right, so I would love to know, what do you do? What's your move when you got a meeting with the client and the model breaks, right? We've all been there. You've stayed up all night, you're getting ready to put it on the printer, and all of a sudden you realize the balance sheet doesn't balance or something else. What do you do?

Right. Okay. Well, first of all, before I answer that question, my models don't break. My models, they're rock solid, right? But most people have been there, right? What I would do if I was in that situation, which I would ever be in, just make up the numbers. No one. No one knows, you know, what's true and what isn't. Finance is really just a game of convincing people that they should believe you more than they shouldn't believe you or you think. You think Warren Buffett knows what he's doing? No. He's just one of the lucky people who just isn't wrong that often. No one knows, you know, is the stock going to go up or down or all the way to the side? You just talk confidently and you'll be fine.

So, I. I'm curious. Before you founded Golden Sachs, did you work at Enron by chance?

Yes. Yes. I can't. I can't. I can't talk about the details of what I did there, but I did work there.

All right, that.

That.

Just. Just kind of wondering. I thought that might be the case. What's the worst meeting you've been in? Not model you've built, but worst meeting you've been in where somebody was totally. You could tell, just making it up. They know that model's broke.

What's the. The.

What's the worst one you've seen? Or the best? I mean, have you seen some where you're like, wow, you guys are not Very good at lying.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so honestly, I think the worst one I've been in, the numbers were fine, but the intern presenting it, he seemed like he had no clue what he was talking about. And you know, I looked at the numbers after, and he knew exactly what he was talking about, but he just didn't seem like he knew he was talking about, right. What he was talking about. And I went out, I went up to him after and I said, I don't believe a word that you're saying. You want to know what he said to me? He said, check the numbers, you'll see that they're right. And I said, I don't care. Right. Because I don't believe you. You're just not talking persuasively. So that. That was probably the worst. The worst one I've ever seen.

So I had nothing to do with the model. It just. He couldn't present the model.

And I can't say this enough. The model almost doesn't matter. It's all about how you present it.

How do you become great at presenting then?

Is it. I'll.

You need to play a lot of poker. What should you do?

I mean. Yeah, So I mean, practice memorability, the two things that we spoke about at the beginning. And on top of that, you know, just distractions, right? You know, the more you distract people from. From the crux of the matter, right. Which are the numbers, Right. You know, the less likely they are to look into it. Right. If you have, you know, some. Some fancy funny posters and bed sheets and signs and mugs in the background, right. People are going to be so focused on that, they're not going to pay any attention to the numbers, right? So it doesn't matter. You could, you could put the most made up number in there, but they're not even going to look. They won't even know it's there.

So I'm curious, you have a go to joke you like to use go to joke?

I don't know. I mean, I kind of just go off the vibes. I think the good thing I like about my bedroom setup here is that the joke writes itself, right? I don't even need to make the joke. The joke is already there.

Fair enough. I could think of a few to make. All right, so you have 10 minutes to clean a messy model before your vice president sees it. After you've cleaned yourself up because you were nervous, what's your strategy?

Hands down, blame it on the intern. Right. And. And here's the thing. It's a win win situation, right? People think, oh, you're blamed on the intern. Poor intern, he's gonna have trouble. No, the intern will never get in trouble. Everyone loves interns, right? The CEO will meet with the intern on the first day. The CEO will never talk to an associate, right? So just blame everything on the intern because the intern will never get in trouble. In fact, odds are the CEO will go up to where the VP will go up to him and say, hey, you know, let's sit down and let's go through this, right? It's a. It's a learning experience for the intern. The intern will not get any trouble. And if you blame it on the intern, then you won't get in trouble either. So everyone wins.

While my background is in FP and A, I am also passionate about financial modeling. Like many financial modelers, I was self taught. Then I discovered the Financial Modeling Institute, the organization that offers the advanced financial modeler program. I am a proud holder of the afm. Preparing for the AFM exam made me a better modeler. If you want to improve your modeling skills, I recommend the AFM program. Podcast listeners, save 15% on the AFM program. Just use code podcast. Everyone wins.

I like it.

The intern wins, you win, we'll go with it.

Exactly.

I'm curious. Why do you think so many people use Excel? Why is it number one, why not Google Sheets? I mean, why don't you have like, Google Sheets all over your bedroom?

People use Excel because I. I told them to. Right. And I think it's one of those long lost stories. People forget that I was the person who made Excel popular. You know, I said everyone should start using Excel, and then a few people started using it, and more people started using it, and now it snowballed so big that people forget that I was, you know, the original person behind, you know, this, this trend, if you will. This trend that's lasted longer than any other trend has ever lasted.

Is that kind of because just the average finance bro doesn't know how to use Excel?

No, no, definitely not. Okay. It's just because, you know, there's people who are known for certain things. Like, you know, Isaac Newton, known for finding, inventing, whatever it is, he. He discovered gravity. Right. In the same way I'm, you know, the one who made Excel popular. People just kind of forget that it was me.

Yeah, it's kind of like I'm the king of podcasts, but sometimes people think it's Joe Rogan.

Exactly. You. You totally understand it.

Yeah, I can feel your pain. I mean, sometimes me and Oprah Winfrey get confused, but not very often.

It's. And honestly, you know, when. When you're walking down the street and people like Jamie Dimon, you know, David Solomon, can I have your autograph? You're like, no, no, no. It's just me, like. And you can sell my autograph. But just don't confuse us, you know?

Yeah, I. I hate when that happens. I hate when they conf. Like I said, they confuse me with Oprah. That's the worst.

Yeah. Yeah.

All right, so there's a lot of rumors floating out there on the Internet, and I just want to clear this up. Is it really true you once went on a first date and talked nothing but Excel with the girl?

No, it's not. It's not true that at once. I do it all the time. I think it's not only an appropriate first date topic, but it's probably the best first date topic. Right. Think about it. It's fun, it's intellectual, it's not controversial, or usually. It's not usually controversial. Right. I mean, I once had a bit of a fight with someone, but I won't get into the details of that. But, yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, it's true. I do it all the time.

What's been your best experience? Talking Excel all the time.

Yeah, I mean, one time I was. I was talking about it, and she said, well, I have my computer right here if you want to start making some spreadsheets. And I was like, on the first date? That's. That's a little provocative. But, yeah, we ended up, you know, spending a solid few hours together in the spreadsheets, and it was. It was really cool.

I bet you built quite the dcs.

Yes. Yes, we did.

All right.

In fact, actually, I would say on top of that, I'm pretty surprised that dating apps still haven't added a feature where you can filter by Excel proficiency. Right. There's, you know, you have age, you know, height, relationship type, whatnot. If they're really trying to get people to pay for premium subscriptions, which is how they make most of their money, they really need to make this feature available as soon as possible.

Yeah, no, I'm curious. Did you teach any. Each other any new shortcuts?

Look, I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to talk too much about what we did and didn't do. Right. I don't think it's necessarily something that's appropriate to share, but, yeah, I will say, you know, a few a Few shortcuts were taught. Well, good.

I'm glad you taught her. I hope you taught control Z everything, alt 80. I don't know.

I'm sure we could think of a few others that we could think of. A whole bunch. Yeah.

All right, I. I'm curious for you. What is more painful, circular references or leg day?

I. I don't know. I don't really. I don't really do leg day. I kind of just. I'm just at, you know, at the monitors. I have my six monitors right here building the spreadsheets. I actually know there's another, you know, popular modeler called Fit Finance bro, and his whole thing is he builds spreadsheets and goes to the gym. So that would be a good question to ask him, but personally, I couldn't even tell you.

Well, maybe we can get both of you on and you two, who can debate a few things. That might be.

We probably. Yeah, we should definitely do that.

All right. We'll definitely look to do that. So I'm curious. Have you ever made a model so complicated that even you couldn't understand it the next day?

That's a good one. I don't think I have. But, you know, there are. I think there was one time, you know, I do a lot of. So when companies are showing, you know, their financial models and reports and statements, you know, they're showing you what you want, what they want you to see. Right. Where I come in for companies is I do a lot of the work that they don't want you to see. So that stuff that can't go to the public. Right. And sometimes companies want to be extra careful. So I'll use, you know, code words or, you know, like. Yeah, code words and stuff that only I know. So if it does get out, you know, people can't even understand it. I think one time I actually forgot what my code words were, which made it a little bit complicated. But, you know, with a little bit of work and putting everything together, I was able to figure it out.

Interesting code words. Do you have a favorite code word you can share with us?

I'll usually just use foods. Gummy bear, pretzel yogurt. Keep it simple.

How about Taco Tuesday?

I don't see why not.

I like that one. That's one of my favorites.

I. I'll definitely throw that in next time, but I can't tell you what it. What it will be a code word for.

That's fine. What can you do?

Yeah.

All right, so I got to get your opinion on this. This is one that shows up on LinkedIn all the time. So what's your opinion on someone like, say, a Golden Jordan Gold Meyer, you know, a Microsoft MVP who uses merge cells? Are they chaotic, evil, or just really misunderstood?

I think it's, it's totally chaotic. And honestly, it's something that we shouldn't even allow in society. Right. Like, you know, we have, we have politicians out there and they're fighting over this and they're fighting over that. I think we really need to focus on this right now. This is a issue, you know, it's, it's prevalent, it's. And honestly, I've had enough of it. I'm kind of sick of it at this point.

So how would you solve it? What's your solution to getting rid of merge cells? It's a complicated problem or it would have been solved 40 years ago. Right.

I think it really goes back to education. There's not enough excel education for kids in kindergarten and SK and grade one and grade two. If we start educating them from a younger age and this won't be a problem in the future.

Okay, so we should start at basically from elementary school, kindergarten, sk, all those.

When they're young, even nursery. Right.

Right out of the womb, Preschool out of the. Wow. Why not in the womb? Why don't, instead of playing music, why don't we just play account tricks?

I don't see why not. Here's a, a quick rant, right? People are always talking about, you know, science this, science that. Finance is obviously more important than science, right? Who needs doctors when you have investment bankers? But I will say the one thing scientists and doctors could be good for is if they invented a reverse ultrasound where instead of us seeing what's, you know, what the baby is doing inside, it's the opposite. Then we could start even educating the babies on spreadsheets from while they're in the womb. And then, you know, it's been a trend, you know, over the past few years that recruiting for finance roles has just gotten earlier and earlier and earlier and earlier. And if we could start doing, if we could start educating the babies while they're still in the womb, then we can start recruiting while they're still in the womb and it would just be better for everybody.

Bad financial models can lead to bad decisions or worse. So how do you minimize the risk of a bad model? You make sure the models you build are great. Financial Modeling Institute developed the Advanced Financial Modeler Accreditation program to help modelers like you. The AFM program offers a step by step approach to building world class financial models. The program ensures that you know the best practices in model design and structure and will help you brush up on your Excel and accounting skills too. Be the one on your team to build great models if you want to impress your boss and your clients. Get AFM accredited podcast listeners. Save 15% percent on the AFM program. Just use code podcast@fminstitute.com podcast. Got it. All righty, so next question. You know, I. We hear from new grads all the time. They want to work in the finance industry. They want to be financial modelers. What's your advice for them again?

So this goes all the way back to what I said at the beginning. Practice and memorability. But a tip, here's a tip I have for the memorability front. Whenever you're, you know, walking around town, you're going to a bar, you're going to a baseball game, a networking event, whatever it might be, right? Wherever you're going, wear a T shirt that says, I want to work in financial modeling. That way, if anyone around you is ever hiring for a role and they see you in the T shirt, they can offer you the job. And before then, they may have not even known you existed. Right? So just putting yourself out there by doing such an easy thing that I'm surprised more people don't do.

So don't wear just the freak in the sheet shirt. Go beyond.

Here's the thing. I. From my perspective, that works even better. Because now not only do I know that you want the job, but I know that you're good at the job. Right? So that's, that's a one up. But if you're going to wear it, make sure you can put your money where your mouth is.

Got it. I do have one of those upstairs. I almost wore it for this. This interview.

Yeah, well, if you ever need a job, make sure you put it on and walk around.

I got my get sheet, done shirt. Got my freaking sheet.

See?

What else do I have? Same sheet, different day.

Great.

So I, I got, I got them covered.

That's good to hear. That's really good.

My Excel shirts.

So you know what you're doing? That's, that's what we need to be telling new grads.

I rarely ever wear the one that says Excel hero. It's just, it's too, too pretentious. I prefer the other ones. Little more subtle.

Yeah, fair enough.

What's your favorite industry to model? If you could model any industry, which one would you do?

If I could model an industry it would be the modeling industry, right? Because here's modeling models. It's like, let me take these models, see which are the best. I'm going to go and model those, right? So that's really cool. But I'll tell you my least favorite industry to model, too. Fashion. Right? And I'll tell you why. There's a story behind this. So Victoria's Secret. You know Victoria's secret?

Yeah. She's a good friend of mine.

Yeah. So she once reached out to me and she asked me to do some modeling for them. And I said, great, whatever I've been. Right? So I brought my computer, I brought my spreadsheets, I brought my six monitors to start working. And then they asked me to take off my clothes and put on some really small underwear. And when I told them I wouldn't do it, they fired me on the spot. And I vowed, on that day, I vowed to never model for the fashion industry again.

And you haven't broke it since.

Haven't I haven't. It's honestly, it's just unacceptable. When I'm just trying to do my work and you're telling me what I should or shouldn't be wearing, the only thing that I will wear is the Patagonia vest or my freakin the sheet suit. You will never catch me wearing anything else.

Got it?

All right.

I like it. Patagonia or freakin the sheets? Are you a sponsor of Patagonia?

Unfortunately not. Unfortunately not.

Well, maybe we can make that happen. We'll see.

Hopefully one day.

All right, so we're gonna move into rapid fire. We got a few questions for you. Here's how this works. It's rapid fire, because we're looking for quick answers. Okay, ready?

Yep.

Circular references in your model, triangular references. VBA in your models.

Yes or no? I'm indifferent. But VBA is great for pranking interns on their first day of work.

And how should you prank them? Let's dig into that.

So my favorite prank is using vba. You can make it so that every time they try to open Excel, it opens Word instead. And the funniest part isn't even the fact that it happens. The funniest is you can wait to see how long it takes them to ask for help. And you and your coworkers can bet on it. It's really great.

I'll have to try that one. Do you prefer horizontal or vertical models?

Either is good. But I will say, whatever you're doing, horizontal or vertical, send it to your boss upside down, and you and your Coworkers can bet on how long it will take them to call tech support.

What's the record for longest time it's taken to call tech support?

I think a couple days. A couple days?

They were slow.

I lost a lot of money on that one.

Well, you're rich, so it doesn't matter. I mean, after all, you're. You're an average bro. And a finance bro at that.

Yeah.

So will Excel ever die?

Absolutely not. I. I like to say if there's two people alive, it's me and Excel. If there's one person alive, it's Excel. And if there's zero people alive, then. You forgot to count Excel.

Got it. So Excel is like roaches. They just don't die.

Exactly.

They'll survive.

Good roaches.

The nuclear holocaust.

Good roaches.

Got it. Will AI build the models for us in the future?

Some. But at the end of the day, no AI will ever be able to build a model better than I can.

So in other words, they're not as good at lying and inflating numbers as you are.

Exactly. Have you asked an AI model today to build you a financial model, but make up all the numbers so you could trick your shareholders and trick your lenders and investors? It would say it won't do it. I would never say that to you.

Got it. I'm curious. Do you believe financial models are the number one corporate decision making tool?

They're. They're number two. But Vibes will always be number one. Right. You could. You could give someone a financial model and it could look horrible, but you know, they might just be like, I don't know, I think it could work. Right. So Vibes. Vibe was always the number ones. Got it.

And what is your lookup function of choice?

Xlookup. And back to the question you asked about talking Excel. Talking about Excel on a first date. I always like to say, if you can't xlookup, we're not going to X hookup.

Got it.

All right.

And then I'd like to know, tell me your favorite Excel joke.

My favorite Excel joke. There's so many.

Well, you can give me more than one if you want. Top three.

I think you know this one. But you know what's the most dangerous cell on a spreadsheet?

C4.

Yes. Yes.

What about AK47?

That. That's also a good one, but I don't know. I think C4 is a bit more dangerous.

Yeah, I'll give you one if you know this one. What cell should you store your Excel error messages in?

I don't know. Never heard this one column.

Fu.

Rotate. Like it? I like it.

All right, you got another one for me?

Not off the top of my head, but I'm gonna have to send you a list.

All right, you send us a list. We'll put it in our show notes so everybody can learn their. Their Excel jokes.

Perfect.

All right, as we wrap up here, if somebody wants to learn more about you, how do they go and see all the impressive things you've accomplished in your amazing life?

Best thing is to go to my Instagram account at your average finance bro. Or if you look up finance bro, it should come up. You'll see all the stuff there. I talk a lot about Excel, Excel on the first date, modeling finance and all that kind of stuff. Or come out to a conference where I'm. I'm doing some comedy about finance and Excel.

All right, and as a wrap up, we'd like to ask you to give one last tip for all those people who are going on a first date. Give them a tip of how they should talk about Excel. What's something they should do?

The best thing to do is to be humble, but at the same time, convey that you're able to use Excel without a mouse, because I can't think of anything more attractive.

Got it. So you find keyboards attractive?

Well, I mean, if you put it that way.

All right, well, thank you so much for joining us. It was a real pleasure having you on the show, and I can't wait to hear what our audience has to say.

Awesome. It was great to be here. Thank you.

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