How the FPAC Certification Helps FP&A Professionals Get Promoted and Earn Strategic Credibility

I felt like everyone I worked with always had an mba. I already had that. So it was just like, what else can I do to help me stand out and differentiate myself?

This week we're in for a real treat as we have a special episode where we're going to talk about the AFP FPAC program and I have three guests with me.

Mario Vasquez is a senior Finance director at the E.W. scripps Company based in Orlando. Cassie McCombs is the vice president of FP&A at Ultradent. Marcus Gadson is a corporate finance professional operating in the healthcare industry, senior Finance director for wellpath.

How has having the certification helped you in your career? What's been some of the benefits you've seen?

Yeah, some of them are actually about the cpe. I love the cpe. I love the opportunity to really kind of go to those conferences and network. I love the network of it.

Like I started seeing they were giving me more special projects and different things. And then about a year and a half later I got a promotion.

Yeah. So I earned my NFPAC credential back in 2021. It's helped me just be a better ally for different departments.

I'm sorry, afp? That stupid Excel tool. That tool is awful and I did not practice with their version of that tool and it just wrecked me. Like from a time perspective.

If someone asks you for advice on studying preparing for the exam, what do you typically tell them? We want to thank this week's title sponsor, the FP&A Hub. The FP&A Hub is the premier FP&A community. It's where you can go and learn from your fellow FP&A professionals. With over 1000 people in the community, you can get answers to the questions you have. Join us for free today@the fpahub.com Again, that's the fpahub.com Join us today. Hello everyone. Welcome to FP&A Tomorrow, where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, AKA the FP and A Guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. Each week we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. This week we're in for a real treat as we have a special episode where we're going to talk about the AFP FPAC program. And I have three guests with Me. Mario, welcome to the show.

Thanks. Great to be here.

Marcus, welcome.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah. Really excited to have you. And then we have Cassie.

Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Excited to have you. And Cassie's in my. In my neighborhood, so that's always fun to have someone from Utah. All right, so what I'm going to do is I'm just going to give each of you a minute to introduce yourselves versus me reading a bio. Since we have three guests, I think people will prefer that versus me reading for five minutes. So why don't we start with you? Cassie, could you just take a minute and introduce yourself to the audience?

Yes. My name is Cassie McCombs. I am the Vice President of FP&A at a local company here in Utah. We Ultra Down Products. We are a dental manufacturer and we also sell directly in the US and then through distribution internationally. I have a small team of FP and A dynamite folks and we were actually the first FP and A team here at Ultradent. So we stood this program up from the beginning. So lots of fun.

Cool. Well, thank you, Cassie. Marcus, why don't we go to you next?

Hey, Paul, thanks for having me. As I said earlier, Marcus Gadson, senior finance director for wellpath. We're a correctional healthcare company based out of Nashville, Tennessee. I'm actually born and raised in the Atlanta area and got my finance degree from Florida State. So after a couple of stints at a few different companies, I end up finding my way into healthcare back in 2013, 2015 actually. I've been riding that train ever since and happy to be here to discuss FP&A and the way that we can make an impact within our organizations.

Great. Thank you, Mario.

Mario Vasquez, I am senior director of finance at the E.W. scripps Company where you do broadcast television with over 60 television stations that are mostly big four affiliates and we have a networks division with Ion Television being the bread and butter of that side of the business. I have over 25 years of FP and A experience and was in that first group with getting this certification. So happy to talk about it.

Excited. Thank you, Mario. All right, so before we jump into the certification, this is a question we start every episode with. Mario, we're going to let you get the question and then we'll have Cassie and Marcus add some thoughts to it from your opinion. What does great FP&A look like? If you're looking at great FP&A, what are you seeing?

What I think about when I hear that question is the FP and a maturity model that AFP put out. They recently refreshed it in November 2024. I was lucky enough to be able to lead the team from North America that contributed to that. There was also a team from Middle east and Africa that contributed to it. So we break it down to like three different things. There's the, the why. Why, why does FPA even exist? So that's our mission. What are we actually doing? That's going to be our financial processes and then how do you actually do it? So you're going to break it down to your technology and data and your personnel. Right. So great FP and A to me delivers actionable intelligence that helps to drive that long term value creation for your business. And you have to have the right financial processes in place with the right technology, clean, reliable data and most importantly is probably having an effective and agile team. So you have to make sure you have the right personnel on your team to deliver the value in actionable insights.

Got it. Love it. You said clean data. There is such a thing.

There is. It's hard to do, but it is, it is possible.

All right, Kassy, anything you would add to that, to what Mario said there?

Yeah, I mean I couldn't agree more. We actually used that maturity model to build our team, used that maturity model to build our modernization plan and really used it as a foundation to, to design our next 10 years in the company. We heavily rely on data and it really is. I have a sticker at my desk that says data is not a four letter word. So you know, that really is something that we really focus on and we, we really champion it around the building, making sure people understand that we're relying on this and taking that and really making it user friendly. So that kind of the, the entry for folks to get in and use this data and analyze it is easy. We're trying to like kind of reduce that barrier to entry for our customers and the entire company to be able to utilize that and make decisions and put it in their hands.

Love it. Thank you. Appreciate that answer. Marcus, any anything you'd like to add there?

I really don't have much to add. They pretty much called it out for from home plate to first, second, third and back to home plate. I'll just add on that when we talk about informing different departments regarding decision making and value creation. I'll just add that I think great FP and A helps enhance the understanding of the past and the present so that you can be where you want to be. In the future. That's my only addition to that.

Thank you. Appreciate it. And I can tell who has baseball on their mind. The baseball analogy.

Yeah. My son has a game on Saturday, so I'm in baseball mode.

I got basketball on my mind. We're getting ready for March Madness next week, so by time people listen to this, it will be over, but details. All right, so I want to ask each of you, and we'll start this question with Marcus here. What was your main reason for earning the certified corporate FPA Professional, the FPAC from afp? Like, what motivated you to. To earn it?

Yeah. So I earned my FPAC credential back in 2020, and I learned that as a finance leader, I wanted to have more productive dialogue with non finance team members because I reached a point where I realized that my ability to impact the organization is going to be tied to my ability to effectively collaborate with members of different departments. And so there wasn't at the time, from my vantage point, there wasn't any other credible organization that had put time into researching how efficient FP and A impacts an organization the way the association for Finance Professionals had done so. And based on that, I just saw them as the most credible organization to get an FP and a related credential.

Got it. Thank you. Appreciate that. Cassie, why don't we go to you next?

Yeah. From my perspective, my CFO was one of the very first people to take this credential. He's had a long standing relationship with afp, and since we were designing this team from the ground up, we really wanted to leverage the program and really kind of design what we wanted this to look like for our company. So actually, every member of my team, it's a focus of ours to get this credential. Most of them have it. We have a couple of new folks that are getting ready to join the program, but we just felt like it was really important to make sure that we really were engaged and understood what was out there and how we could be the very best at this function and serve the company.

Love that. Thank you for sharing. Mario, what about you? I know. I think you were the first cohort, if I remember right.

Yes, I was part of the beta test group. So in that very first group, we sat for the exam in Q1 2014. So in going back into 2013, you know, I'd already been working in corporate FP&A for over 10 years. I had been thinking for years I needed to get some sort of certification. Wasn't sure which one to get. And then an old boss reached out to me and said, you know, hey, have you heard of this company, AFP? They're coming out with a new certification for corporate FP&A. And you were the first person I thought of. So he actually got me in touch with someone there. You know, that's what started my relationship with them and was able to get in on that very first group to get the exam. You know, I just. I wanted something to help me stand out from all of my peers. I felt like everyone I worked with always had an mba. I already had that. So it was just like, what else can I do to help me stand out and differentiate myself? So that was the first reason why I decided to get it.

Got it. Thank you. And so we have actually four people on the call who have all earned it. I did mine in 23. Not. Not very often. I get all my guests to have it. So kind of fun. Let's start here. Were there any other programs that you look at? Mario, you mentioned mba. You looked at wanting to do something, you know, before you settle on afp. Were there other things you were considering?

So I looked at pretty much everything I could find. But CPA is the only one that I really seriously considered. But every time I was trying to decide to do it or not, I'm like, I'm not an accountant. I've never worked in accounting. I really don't need. It has nothing to do with what I actually do day in and day out. Which is part of the reason why when I heard a corporate FP and a certification, I'm like, that's exactly what I do. But, you know, cfa? Nope. Cma, Nope. I'm like, those are not what I do. So looked at them, but decided not to go down that path. So it was a quick and easy decision when I learned about the fpac.

Makes a lot of sense. I had looked at CPA at one point. I'm like, I just really don't see why I stopped doing accounting. I took level one of the CFA and said, I'm not going to use level two and three. This is a ton of studying. I'll pass. I did that about the time you probably are taking your first. The test 10 years ago. So, Cassie, how about you? Were there. Were there other programs you looked at, or was it. You mentioned your cfo, so. Because it. Was it kind of always AFP for you?

Yeah, it was. I. I'm similar to Marcus in that a CPA just doesn't seem to serve what I'm doing day in and Day out, maybe, other than to make it so that I can negotiate better with, with the accounting team. But the FPAC was really what I felt like would serve us well and serve the company well, serve myself well, because really it is bridging that gap and trying to get people to understand the numbers behind it without, you know, like all the accruals and without all of the complexity of regular everyday accounting. So there wasn't really anything that was in competition.

Yeah. And it sounds that similar to your situation, right, Marcus, as you look, there really wasn't anything else out there.

No, not really. And I'm someone who has this CFA that you mentioned earlier and I got familiar with AFP because I got the CTP credential. But the thing about those credentials, while they are amazing and they are well renowned to a certain degree, they present finance as a back office function. And as I move up in my career trying to make an impact, and I noticed that the FPA field and the FPA credential in particular, treated finance as kind of the right hand of the decision maker, not necessarily as a back office function. And so knowing where I want to go, knowing the impact that I wanted to make and how I wanted my team to operate, I thought that the FPAC was, was amazing. And I didn't see anything else that was like that.

Yeah, no, and I, I think five years ago there wasn't much. You know, we have several that have cropped up in the last few years, but even with that, you know, AFP is the only one that's a credentialed program for like a cpa. And with that comes the joy of continuing education. I see a few smiles like, yes, I have to do it. So before we get into the continuation of the credentials, I do want to ask one more question, kind of the program. I'd love to know for each of you what's maybe been the biggest help from having that credential in your career. So is there one area that's really helped you or something that stood out? And why don't we go with you, Marcus, first on this one? Yeah.

How it's helped one has helped me just be a better ally for different departments. The thing that comes to mind is I know there's a section in Part 2 of the FPAC program regarding modeling and data integrity and things like that, those type of lessons, those type of notes and helps me be a better ally to the IT team or the business intelligence team. And the section that they had on statistics and trends helped me become a better Ally for, of course, the operations team and other finance peers. And I just think it just has those keynotes that we may know it or something subconsciously we may know it, but it brings it to the forefront. And it kind of gave me a new perspective, a renewed perspective, if you will, on how to operate as a finance professional and be more collaborative with different teams.

Yeah, it sounds like, you know, a couple things I've heard as you've been talking. One, you really felt the collaborative nature of it helped that focus on being, you know, value creators versus just a back office function. Really stuck out to you with the FP and A. Is that. That a fair assessment?

Yes, it did. Yes, it did. I've had other finance related jobs where the only people I speak with are finance team members. And that's great, but I want a little bit more. I wanted a little bit more range with who I touch and who I can impact. And the FP and a field in general forces you to make an impact and be aware of other teams outside of your own.

So, Cassie, how has having the certification helped you in your career? What's been some of the benefits you've seen?

Yeah, some of them are actually when you were kind of cringing before about the cpe. I love the cpe. I love the opportunity to really kind of go to those conferences and network. We designed a recent change that we made based off of doing a training and hearing from IBM and some of the things that they were doing. So I love the network of it. I love being able to talk to other people and ask them, like, how are you handling this challenge? Or how do you see this working? Like, the opportunity to be here with you today. One of the things that my team wants to do is we, we would love to do like a podcast for our executive team, because if I was them, I would be so sick of reading my emails that are lengthy, that have this, all of these details, and I would love to find a way to. To deliver them information in a way that is more entertaining and easier than reading or looking at a slide deck. I had the opportunity to go to breakfast with someone and they said, executives have so many slide decks and then once they get full, they just, their brains can't look at one more slide deck. So I love the creativity, I love the group of people and just having the opportunity to network and see how others are handling the same situations that we're faced with.

Yeah, when I worked at Amex, we called it Death by PowerPoint.

Yeah, it was actually the CFO from American Express. That told me that. He told me your brain hits a limit on how many PowerPoints you can have.

Remember the name, which he was. That.

I'm gonna murder his last name. Gary Crittendale.

Okay. Yeah, he was. Okay. Yeah, he was the one. I think he left. Right. Been there a few years. He left. He was a CFO also at a. I think he left right about as I got there at a chase for a while as well. Yeah, I went to chase after American Express. I know who you're talking about.

Yeah. Yeah. Another Utah local.

Mario, how about you?

So when I decided to try go for the certification, I didn't tell anyone at work. It was a surprise to everyone, even after I took the test. You know, now when people take the test, they find out immediately if you passed or not. I had to wait three months to find out if I passed or not. So as soon as I found out I passed, I went. I told my boss, I told hr, I told all my peers at work. I was so excited about it, and they were all very impressed that I took the initiative to go pursue this on my own. So I think they took that as, hey, let's see if there's something else we can give Mario. Like, I started seeing, they were giving me more special projects and different things, and then about a year and a half later, I got a promotion. So I think it really helped me to get there. I think a lot of times when people get something, whether it's an MBA or a certification, they think that they should get the promotion right away. And, of course, I would have loved that. But, you know, those things take time. There's not money in the budget to immediately do it. So about a year and a half later, getting that promotion, I was. I was pretty happy with that.

Yeah. And, I mean, I agree everybody wants a promotion right away, but there's two things. One, certification doesn't mean you're doing better work per se. It does show initiative, and it helps you stand out. But then you combine that with, hey, I'm doing good in the job. I'm continuing to be proactive, and it will happen if there's that opportunity, and if not, it will look good as you go to another company. But, yeah, I think sometimes we have this idea that I'm just. I'm owed a promotion because I've done this and not. Not the way the world works, at least for most of us. I see Marcus over there smiling on that one.

Absolutely. I felt that way when I got my ctp. I said, I should get it promoted right now. The moment I got my cfa, I thought I should get promoted within the next month. It doesn't happen like that. Ironically for me when I got the FPAC credential in September of 2020. And so I did get promoted a year later. So there was some lag there. But going through the FPAC program for me, like I said earlier, helped give me a better foundation to be a stronger ally for different departments and be more collaborative. I remember the section on modeling and data integrity that helped me become a stronger ally to the business intelligence team and the information technology team. And thinking about the sections that they have on statistics and trend analysis helped me become kind of the key source of information and insights for the operational leaders and other members of the finance department. So it's been very helpful for me. It didn't give me the immediate promotion, but it did come later and it's allowed me to be more productive and more impactful within my space.

Yep, great. So I would like to ask each of you kind of question that wasn't on there, but just how much time did you roughly spend preparing for the test? Like how much time did it take you? But just be curious to kind of get a general idea. And Mario, since you're the the furthest one back, we'll ask you first, see if you remember FP and A Guy here today. I'm super excited to talk to you about the FP and A Hub community, the online community that you can go to to get answers. Early in my career, I wish I had a place I could have went to where I didn't have to talk to somebody in the company, go to my boss again or Google that I knew I could get answers from. That's what you can get at the FP and A Hub. You can make friends, you can learn from others, you can attend events, put discussions and posts out there. You don't have to worry about all the selling and cheat sheets and stuff you get on LinkedIn. This is real conversations by real FP and A professionals. We have over 1100 people in the community and it's absolutely free. That's the best thing. So please go ahead and join today. The fpahub.com you can join for free at the fpahub.com and the FPA guy looks forward to seeing you in this free community join today.

So I, I almost don't like answering that question because I went into it with a different mindset. I said I already have been working in this field for over 10 years. If I can't pass it, I should go find a new career. So I didn't study. I, what I did, I said if I, if they're going to get me, it's going to like, if I don't pass, it's going to be on terminology. So I did, I bought the study materials and I flipped through them looking at terminology the day of the exam. So when went and arrived like an hour or two early in the parking lot and kind of flipped through and looked at terminology to get the definitions down. But I'm like, to the. What you actually do day to day, I'm like, that's what I do. So I should already know it. So that's where I was like, you know, I felt like I shouldn't have to. And luckily I did pass.

So, yeah, I'm going to tell our audience if you're listening, I don't recommend the Mario approach, but if it works for you, great.

Well, and I'll also say like the materials it was when I did it, it was a bunch of books and like stacked together. It was really, really thick, about three inches. And I was just like, I don't want to read all of that. And now though, I got to actually see the preview of before they put it out, the new study materials. It's amazing. I actually said I just want access to it because it's, it's awesome. It's an awesome reference tool. You can just go look up something really quickly and the way it works is amazing. So if it was today, I probably would actually do it because I think the, the interface, the actual product they have that they're offering is amazing.

So yeah, I've previewed it as well. They asked me to give some feedback. I've seen it and I'm actually getting ready in April. I'll be teaching people to take the pack. So I'm working out in the Middle east organization. There will be remote. So I just got the material this week to prepare to be an instructor for it. So that will be different. So how about you, Cassie?

I had a completely different experience.

I had a feeling by your reaction to his. I didn't study at all when he said that.

I was like, what? What are you talking about? So I studied a lot. So I, I took probably three months and I studied in the evenings for the first part and I studied every piece of it, took all of the quizzes. I spent a lot of time and a lot of our team did it together. So it was kind of like a community event. We Got to commiserate together. And then for the second part, I'm just going to be super honest with you. And I did not pass the second part on the first time. I made a fatal error in the second piece of it. I knew every piece of the material perfectly. I had bad strategy, and I did not practice with that. I'm sorry, afp, that's too stupid. Excel tool. So that tool is awful. And I did not practice with their. Their version of that tool. And it just wrecked me, like, from a time perspective. So I was just destroyed on time. And I immediately got the results, which you didn't get this, Mario, but I immediately got the results, and then I got to sit in my car and cry for just a second and be like, oh, that is so sad. I get to do this again. And. And then I went back and did it again, and I practiced with the Excel tool. So I think it. You know, I had. I knew the answer to every single question. I just wasn't fast enough with that tool in order to be able to do it. And so I did it, and then I passed it on the second time. But, man, it was. It was. It was rough. And I took it at the end of the window. So then I had to wait for the next window to open, which was incredibly painful. But I did love the study materials, and I actually kept all of the, like, screenshots and stuff because from a reference perspective, I thought it was amazing in the future when I maybe wanted to use one of those models or use something like that, that I kept it all so that I could kind of remember how I maybe want to look at something. So I wish I could have passed it without studying. I don't know how. How did you do the Excel tool, Mario? Like, what the heck?

I did it in 2014. So it was probably different version, right? It probably wasn't that same Excel tool.

But I do remember being warned by Brian Lapidas from afp. He's like, just know that the tool. Make sure you practice with it. You're not going to like it. And I really didn't practice much with it. Fortunately, I was able to get through it. But I do know what you're talking about. I don't like the tool. And there is definitely some times where I'm like, oh, I can't do this. I can't. This is driving me crazy. So I can relate to what you're talking about, Cassie, with the tool, I don't think anyone likes it, you know, Marcus, for you, how long did it Take you and then I'd like know how did it kind of compare to CFA and CTP from a time and study perspective?

Yeah, it took me roughly four months of studying. Keep in mind, because I had the CTP credential by afp, I was able to skip part one of the FPAC and just go straight to part two. So going into part two, I put in probably four months of just consistent studying. I was reading the book materials that AFP provides and I was also connected to the learning program, like the online learning program and how that compares to the ctp. Similar from a studying standpoint. For that I studied six, roughly four to six months. And for the cfa, that's just a nightmare that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. And that just took a lot of time, roughly a few years to go through part one, part two and part three. So I wouldn't wish that on my kids, even though I want them to work hard. You can work hard without getting your CFA credential. You look at the costs versus the benefits of it. Have to make a decision on if it's worth it or not. But for the FP and a credential or for the FPAC credential, it took me four months of studying. And to Mario's point, I don't think I had to study as much as I did. But one of the methods that I try to do to hype myself up is I want to enjoy the test taking experience. And the best way to enjoy the test taking experience is to be over prepared. And while I was over prepared, I can say that I had a enjoyable experience taking the exam. I walked in with my shirt and tie on and my cufflinks and my nice shoes. I just had a great time taking the exam because it was based on a lot of the work that I do for a living. So it was a great experience from a learning standpoint and a test taking standpoint for me.

Nice. I like it. So Cassidy, I know you talk quite a bit about the continuing education, so I won't ask you this question. I think we, we know where you kind of sit on that. But Mario, what's your take on having the continuing education credits? Do you like that? Has it helped you give some thoughts? I believe it's what 45 hours has to be done every three years. Is that the number that's correct?

Yes, 45 hours. So averaging 15 a year. You don't have to do it exactly like that, but yeah, absolutely. I love, I love doing the continued education. So it's it's my main source of how I stay up to date on what's actually happening and relevant in FP&A. So there, you know, there's always subject matter experts on every session. There's lots of recent case studies. So, you know, you can talk about the case studies when you're in school. Most of those things, even by the time you're actually doing it back when you were in school, they're already outdated. So everything that you're getting from AFP is always current and relevant to what you're actually dealing with day in and day out. So, you know, and there's multiple different formats. There's the conference that we. We've already mentioned. Right. And that you can pretty much get all of your continuing education credits by just going to the annual conference every year. But then there's the webinars and. Which I've attended, I've been on both of them kind of thing. Right. I love the. There's the study guide, like I mentioned before, the maturity model. That's one of the guides that gets put out and then articles. So it's always really good information and content. So I enjoy it all.

Good. Great. And there's actually, you know, one way, if people are interested in it, is you can actually get credit listening to the podcast. So there is, there is a way to get that. Marcus, what about you?

I had a twinkle in my eye the moment Mario mentioned the conference, because that's how I get all of my continuing education credits. I've been attending the conference since 2015, and I don't plan on stopping. I think I missed one conference during the COVID time, during the COVID time period. But since then I've been going to the conference every year. And it's just a good refresher that I need. It's a great reset to not only get an understanding of what's going on within the world of Corporate Finance and FP&A in particular, but. But it's a way to be away from work but still be productive. And I definitely enjoy it. It's a learning experience and it's a great networking opportunity for me.

Great. Thank you. You know, Mario, you mentioned how you got the promotion a year and a half later, but you've had the credential now for about 11 years, so maybe talk a little bit. How else has that helped you in your career? I know you attend the conference every year, but maybe just talk to some of the ways it's helped you or not helped you over the last 10, 11 years.

Yeah. Very good. So you know, there's a lot of networking that happens at the conference, which is one of my favorite things also about going to conference. Well then that eventually led you and.

I did a rocky run.

We did the rocky run together in Philly. That's where I met you in person. That's right. That was great. I was just telling my boss about that actually. And so then it eventually led to me joining Brian Lapidas team. And that's actually how I'd met Marcus already. Also is the AFP's North American FPA Advisory Council. That is an amazing experience. You can do up to a three year stint there where you're actually helping to create these materials that they're publishing and putting out. And so just being part of that group is amazing. I learned a lot from being on it as well as, you know, got to contribute and share my knowledge as well. I got to be on webinars, contribute to the articles. You know that guide I already mentioned. And then it's now led to now I'm on their board of directors. So again, another amazing experience. I've never been on a board before. It's really excellent. I do want down the road to join more and more boards. Nonprofit's great. I'd also love like the paid ones type thing. But to get the experience, to even know that. So this has led to that by having that like if I wouldn't be on their board if I didn't get the certification.

So.

So it's been really helpful. Great.

Thank you for sharing. Sounds like there's been a lot of, lot of benefit there. Cassie, I want to ask you kind of a fun question. I noticed this on your LinkedIn profile. You referred to yourself as the accidental financial professional. Tell me about that. How did that come about?

So when I was a little girl, I was never like, I want to grow up and be an accountant. It never crossed my mind. I started actually working at this company when I was super young and I just never, it was not what I intended. And I, I started in accounts payable. I would get my work done early. I would go to my leader and say, oh, my work's done. And little by little she trained me. I had great mentors in my career. She trained me on all different types of things until I actually knew the entire financial system and could close the books, do all of that work. So I, I've done almost every position in our accounting and finance team here and I just loved the work. So I originally was going to stay home with my children. And my leader that had mentored me was like, I'm just going to hold your job open for you just in case you change your mind. And I didn't make it six weeks at home, and I was back at work. And I didn't realize at the time that I just really loved the work. I enjoyed the work. I enjoy the company. I enjoyed the people. And so then I had to figure out how I was going to do that and do everything else that I wanted to do. So I had to shift some gears. And luckily, I have a super supportive, amazing husband who built me a house that's a mile and a half from this building that I work in. And. And he just kind of did everything in his power to make it so that I could have both things that I wanted in my life.

So great. That's wonderful that it worked out and that you love what you're doing. I mean, that's what we all want. The end of the day, you want to enjoy the work. Nobody wants to go to work and be like, all right, when's it 5 o'?

Clock?

We all do it sometimes. I'm going to guess it's a Friday. You're all probably doing it a little bit. And Marx is thinking, when does the baseball game start?

Yeah, but I do think, you know, that is the hard thing is, like, on the outside of someone too young. When you talk to young kids, I have young adult children. When you're going to graduations or when you're going to things, no one's like, I want to be an accountant. It's not. I think people just think it's very different than what it is. And we need to find a way to have some internships and to do some different things to really let people see what this work looks like and get people excited about it. Because some of the stereotypes aren't great. And it's very different probably, than what. What people expect it to be. I mean, we come to work each day, and we don't know what the day. We work on different things every single day. We have kind of our standard things. But a deal comes, and we're analyzing. A deal, we're analyzing. If we want to expand, we're doing different things. So there's just a lot more to it than probably what people think from the outside.

Totally agree. I think another thing that I'll say is also true of FP&A. Like, how many knew what FP A was in college? Had any of you heard of it? I hadn't Right?

Nope.

So that's not surprising. Now, I actually occasionally get college kids that will message me and say, hey, I want to get into FP&A. Can I talk to you? And I'm like, wow, you actually know what it is, because it's just not talked about. Everybody knows what investment banking is. Some people have a general idea of accounting, but, you know, not really necessarily knowing the work. Beside, hey, you do journal entries. And FPA is still really getting that visibility. So I want to ask each of you kind of just a quick question. If someone's considering taking this certification, what's the advice you give them? I'm sure people have asked you about it. You've given advice. Mario, what's your advice to someone when they ask you about it? FP and a guy here today, I want to talk about something that can help you in your career. That's FPA certificates. We all want ways to stand out and to validate to our employers that we're serious about our professional profession and that we understand that a great way to do that is to get a certificate or a credential that demonstrates your ability to do the work. There are several great programs out there in FPA and Financial Modeling, and I cover those on my website. I've done an episode on FP&A tomorrow about them, and I'm doing episodes in the future about all the different programs bringing in customers to talk about them. So if you're interested in showing your employer that you're serious about FPA and upgrading your skills, look at an FP and a certificate. There's ones from fpac, Wharton Online, cfi, FMI offers a great one for Advanced financial Modeling. There's the FP and A Professionals Institute and others, and I cover all those on my website. So go to the FP and A guy and check them out. Go to certificates and courses, FP&A certificates. And the best part is, with each of these programs, I have a discount code where you can receive a special discount for taking that program. So check it out. Today, level up your skills by earning a certificate or credential to demonstrate your seriousness around FP&A.

Yeah, I'm like, if you're in FP&A, or if you're considering moving over to FP&A from accounting or any other area in finance, I definitely highly recommend getting it. The. The study materials that we've talked about, that alone is an amazing source of. Of information. And even though before I said I didn't study, that was old material, right? Kind of Stuff like that. It was like the, this new product is, is awesome and you should always con, you know, you should always be learning. If you're not learning, you're actually going backwards. So to stay up to date, you know, know what your, how the, the, the world is changing and what we're doing every single day, right. A and I is getting more and more infused into what we do, right? So if you get the certification and you're doing the continued education credits and you're going to conference and all that kind of stuff, you're going to always know what's going on even. And a good example is we're actually not even using AI and my work today. I want to use it, but I, and the way I stay up to date on what's going on, one of the best ways is through afp, you know, some of your content too Paul, because I, you know, obviously from LinkedIn and your stuff that you do. But you know, AFP obviously is going to be a great source there for us. So I say do it for the education, the continuing education, staying up to date and then maybe you'll look into something like what Marcus and I gave as some of our career benefits of getting promoted.

So how about you, Marcus, what do you tell people when they ask you, hey, should I take this certification?

I will say if you enjoy working in the field of finance, then do it. Just thinking about the other FPAC credential holders who I've met throughout the past few years. Almost everyone enjoys what they do and so I just think if you enjoy what you're doing within the field of finance and in the field of FP and A in particular, it's almost a no brainer because of course you're going to automatically be in that circle of those individuals within FP and A who enjoy what they do. Like a Mario, like me and like the individuals on this call here. So it's something that I would just recommend and that's really all I would give as advice. Just go and do it.

Alrighty. And Cassie, how about you?

Same thing. I mean, I think it's just, there's no downside to it, right? Except for studying. If you don't, if you don't like to study, it's probably not, not your thing. But there's not really a downside and.

I even you might pass if you're Mario.

I mean there's a, there, there's, there's a, there's a chance you, you could just pass. So I don't know that I would risk it because it's kind of expensive. But. And I also think even like they should broaden it out even to people who really are heavily focused on strategy. Right. Because a lot of strategy is really about. About the financial impact and how that looks. And I think there's more that can benefit from. Besides just financial folks.

Sure. And then last question on the fpac and then we're going to go into kind of some standard sections and wrap up here.

So.

So last one is, if someone asks you for advice on studying, preparing for the exam, what do you typically tell them? We'll start with you on this, Cassie.

Practice the Excel tool.

I had a feeling that was going to come up. Something told me that would be at the top of your list. Anything else?

Practice the Excel tool? No, I mean, I think just going through the material like the material is laid out very, very well. The practice tests are great. I think that the biggest thing if I were to do it again is I would just probably have taken. I didn't get the advice to practice the Excel tool, but I, that's one thing I would do. And, and just like Marcus, I, I love the idea of going into it and just enjoying it. Right. Like embrace the experience and just enjoy the, the process of learning and looking at things differently from the material.

And the one thing I will add is pay the extra for the exam prep platform. Oh, yeah, it's worth it. Don't just do the test. You want that to help prepare you. That's what I, I saw everybody nod their head when I said that. That's definitely my advice. I'll add. Marcus, I was going to say.

Paul, you took my answer. I was going to say go through the exam prep platform. That was my, that was in my head, the exam prep. Just do it. The practice problems can hurt. I know we talked about the hatred for the Excel tool from certain parties here. I didn't, I don't have that same hatred, but just I think going through the practice problems over and over again puts you in a better position to excel come test time. So that's my number one piece of advice in terms of how to prepare. Just go through the exam prep platform and go through those practice problems as much as possible.

Yeah, pretty amazing. Just put it, put in the time. Practice the problems. Prepare yourself. Mario, what advice do you give people? Do you tell them to not be like you?

Yes. Well, usually I don't tell people that I didn't study. I say get the material, study. You know, I didn't know about the. How Hard. The Excel tool I guess was to use kind of thing like that. So I guess it would be, hey, definitely heavily focus on using that and knowing how to use it, you know, quickly. Right. So that's what it sounds like people need to know is do the study materials practice and know how to use that tool really well.

Got it. All righty, so now we're going to move into the FP and A section and just kind of looking for a quick short answer. I'm going to ask each of you this, so we'll start with Mario on this one. Mario, if I was to ask you what is the number one technical skill that FP&A professionals need to master, what would you say?

For the longest time I would have said Excel. I'm now changing my answer to knowing how to use AI. And you know I mentioned before I'm not using it, but I'm trying to make sure that I'm staying getting educated on how to use AI in the workplace. Right. So not just using chat gtp, but I'm not afraid AI is going to take my job. But if I don't learn how to use AI when we do roll it out, I will get replaced by someone who knows how to use it. Right. So I think it's knowing and understanding how to use AI in the workplace place will help me to stay in my job and probably even advance.

I appreciate that. So first, when we've had this change from Excel, the whole AI thing, it's amazing how quick it's changing the way we work. So I think you're the first guest I've had that says has said AI had plenty say Excel. Cassie, what about you?

I'm all about data, data infrastructure, really building out the platform and the architecture. That's really what makes it so that you can iterate quickly and leverage those AI. So we actually are using AI. We're leveraging a lot of technology at our company and really what has reduced the barrier to entry is that we've spent a lot of time on that architecture and the data infrastructure and really understanding how we can leverage that.

Got it. Thank you. Marcus, what about you?

When I think about technical skills for FP and a professional, I think about the ability to merge financial analysis with the industry specific operational activity that drives the financials. And I don't know if that's technically a technical skill, but just that ability to merge finance, the ability to merge those financial nuances with the operational activity, I think that's the number one skill for FP and a professionals. To have, because I think that'll get you the ability to get the influence across the organization that you want.

Okay.

All right, so we'll start with you, Cassie, on this one. What's that softer human skill we need to have what's number one in your mind.

I think the biggest thing is just really putting yourself in. In the shoes of your customer and understanding the problem from their perspective and seeing how you can serve them. So when somebody brings you something that you're doing an NPV on, that is their baby.

They.

They really want this project to succeed. And you have got to put yourself in their shoes, and you need to be their ally and do your very best to represent that project to the best of your ability and also be willing to, you know, to tell folks when. When their baby's ugly in a kind way. So, you know, I think that's really. It's really about service. You've got to be able to be willing to service your customers and really be that partner to them for them to trust you and let you in.

Yes. I think service is a great one. And as you said that, the other thing I heard of a lot of people say that made me think of as you gave that answer is having empathy.

Yeah.

For your business partners. I think those kind of go hand in hand, that service and empathy that you mentioned. What about you, Marcus? What's. What would you say is the number one soft skill?

I'm going to take a page out of Cassie's book and I'm going to say sincere curiosity. Not just curiosity, but sincere curiosity. Asking questions and learning things not so that you can find people going through a gotcha moment, but really asking questions to get a better understanding so that you can help drive the conversation where it needs to go. So I think about soft skills for FP and A professionals. I think that sincere curiosity can go a long way.

Love that one. I think I've had curiosity before. I haven't had sincere, so I like it. Marcus, you're giving me different things to think on. I love how everybody has a slightly different answer. It's great. Mario.

I think being in certain. Yeah, I think been in certain meetings, I've been caught in those gotcha moments. And I'm thinking, okay, are you really asking this question because you want to know, or are you just trying to make certain people look bad? So I think that's.

Oh, come on, we never do that. I. I know what you mean. I appreciate you sharing that, Mario.

All right. Yeah. So my soft skills is probably closely related to the answer that Marcus gave to the technical skills, because I'm going to go with telling a compelling financial story in your presentation. So the higher that I've moved up in the company, the more and more presentations that you have to do. And it's not just preparing the presentation itself, which is probably more related to that technical side, but it's the how to deliver it, knowing your audience. It's not a one size fits all approach because it's. If you're especially presenting to executives, they're all different. They want to see it a little bit of a different way. You need to learn how to actually speak to the data that you're talking about, speak to the slides. So it's really, I guess it's more about the knowledge, knowing your audience part to tell that story.

Yeah, definitely a huge one. Really important. So thank you, each of you for sharing that next section. We're gonna have one question for each of you just to get to know you a little bit on a kind of more personal. So they're kind of fun. Different questions we'll ask each of you. Marcus, we'll start with you. What did you want to be when you were growing up as a child? What was your kind of dream job?

Wow. Born in Atlanta, Georgia. I wanted to be a football player for the Atlanta Falcons. My mom and dad both met at Florida State University and ended up moving to Atlanta. And growing up in the late 80s, early 90s, there was a player by the name of Deion Sanders who went to Florida State and ended up playing for the Falcons. So I grew up wanting to be just like Deion Sanders. And then I realized at some point that I wasn't fast enough and I decided to take on finance and see how far that could get me. But yes, back then I wanted to be a football player.

Not, not surprised being a Falcons, your parents going to Florida State. Dion. Yeah, right. I mean he was larger than life personality and still is as the coach of Colorado. So quite, quite the athlete. All right, Mario, here's your question. If you could have any job in the world for one week and it could be somebody's job or a type of job, up to you either or what job you taking.

So first of all, I love Neon Dion and I would my answer is going to be similar because it's football related. So I would love to be the athlete out there. But right now I can't go be that I'm late 40s now. I'm not going to go out there and be a professional athlete. But doesn't mean I can't work in a professional athletic organization. So I love the Tampa Bay Bucks. So I'm like, could I be the general manager there for a week? Can I be part of the contract negotiations with the players? Look at the salary caps. I'm thinking like in FP&A. How are we formulating that long, long term strategy of the organization? Right. Diving into the analytics of the players, the site, like, how you figure out player performance, all that kind of stuff. Watch a game from the owner's box, meet all the players. I'm like, I got all excited about, like, oh. It's like, oh, heck yeah, football. Let's do this.

Yeah. You saw that question and you knew the answer right away. I could tell how excited you were. I'm like, you've been more excited for that question than the entire podcast. Mario, we know what your passion is.

And I love sports.

We have a few people here we tell passion is sports. Football, baseball, all those things. Cassie, here's your question. If you could recommend one book to our audience to read, is there a book out there you'd recommend?

Okay. I am an avid reader and I can't give you one. I'm going to give you three.

Okay. All right.

Okay. Okay. One is the future's faster than you think by Peter. I can't pronounce the last name. Demondes or something. Love that book. Just kind of talking about what's out there in the future in AI and what that looks like. I love a book called Alchemy, the Dark and curious science of creating magic by Rory Sutherland. And that's just about, like, marketing. It's about marketing and how you get people to, to do what you want. And then I love Predictively Irrational by Dan Ariely. Just because sometimes, from a finance perspective, we'll, we'll publish stuff all the time and we'll literally just change a report a little bit. And all of a sudden everyone sees things differently. And so just like, how people interact and see things is so interesting to me. Like, it's so we'll. We'll just change things and just see what lands. And every once in a while someone will be like, oh, I didn't realize, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wow, that's been, it's been like that for a long time. So I love, like, the, the science of how, how to get people to look at things and how to get them to understand what you're presenting.

Great. Very helpful. I've heard a few people say on FP and a Sometimes you feel like you're a therapist. Who's ever felt that way? I see everybody nodding, right. So there's, there's something about learning how people think, understanding how they respond to different things. I want to thank each of you for joining. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. I really enjoyed everything you share and I'll just give one last kind of opportunity. If there's anything you want to add before we close here. Just kind of go around the horn and give each of you just a last word, as I think some shows call it. Mario, why don't we let you go first on this?

Invest in yourself. Never stop learning. Always continue growing, both professionally and personally.

Love it, Marcus.

I'll just say enjoy what you're doing and be around like minded people who also enjoy what they're doing. It'll make your days and nights a lot better, a lot more enjoyable.

Thanks. Appreciate that, Cassie.

Yeah, I think letting down your guard and kind of embracing the community, really, really networking and surrounding yourself with people that think very differently, I think is very beneficial.

Great. Well, thank you. Love those answers. We'll put each of your LinkedIn profiles in the show notes so if somebody wants to reach out to you or maybe get in touch, they hear this and they'd like to ask you something, they'll be able to do that. And again, thank you so much for joining me today. Really appreciate it.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for listening to FPA tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmark cpe.com downloading the app, taking a short quiz and getting your CPE certificate. Certificate. To earn Continuing Education credits for the FPAC certification, take the quiz on Earmark and contact me, the show host, for further details.