How Wharton’s FP&A Program Teaches AI and Automation - from real students! Dan Cotoia and Anh Tran

We're going to spend the rest of the time talking about the wharton certificate of FP&A. Today we have two guests who have gone through the program. So they're both going to share some of their reasoning, their thoughts to help you if you're thinking of what program is right.

For me, I wanted a program that would have more live interaction with the instructors program that could help me expand my professional network. I decided to take it and I was pleased, pleased to find that, you know, it actually exceeded my original expectation, actually provided some more benefits beyond what I had anticipated when I started to.

Look into the Wharton program specifically, you know, I like the fact that there would be interaction with other people, sort of like a class, if you will, where you can have that dialogue and discussion. Felt like it was really one of the few programs that really truly for me match what I'm doing.

How has the program helped you like your day to day job?

I wanted to know what am I missing? What I doing today? Is it the best practice, the right thing? At a very macro level, it was.

Able to reinforce, actually piqued my interest in exploring how AI is being integrated into finance today.

I want to be truthful. I think there's tremendous value in it and I think actually the module truly was wonderful. It was real. That doesn't mean it was my favorite. While I do think it was foundational and super important, I would be honest and say that it was probably.

We want to thank this week's title sponsor, the FP&A Hub. The FP&A Hub is the premier FP&A community. It's where you can go and learn from your fellow FP&A professionals. With over 1000 people in the community, you can get answers to the questions you have. Join us for free today@the fpahub.com Again, that's the fpahub.com Join us today. Hello everyone. Welcome to FP&A tomorrow where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, AKA the FPA Guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. Each week we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting your journey in fpa, this show has something for everyone. This week we are thrilled to be joined by Dan and Ann. Dan and welcome to the show Hi, Paul.

Nice to meet you.

Hello, everyone. Hi, Paul. Thank you for having me here today.

Yeah, really thrilled to have you. So, like I said, we have Dan Cotoya and Ann here with us and we're going to start by giving you guys the opportunity to introduce yourself. Dan, we'll start with you and then we'll go over to you. Ann, if you just want to tell the audience a little bit about your background yourself, what you're doing today, that'd be great.

Sure, sure. So, yeah, like Paul said, my name is Dan Cotoya and I'm a senior finance director for a pharmaceutical organization. I have been in industry for over 18 years and have worked primarily in FP&A and also primarily in pharmaceuticals during that time. I have pretty extensive background in different portions of financial planning and analysis. So I've done commercial finance, I've done R and D, medical affairs finance. I've done alliance finance, which is a new trend in terms of pharmaceutical companies co promoting or different pharmaceutical companies co promoting the same product and doing the financial reconciliations of those. And then I've also done a stint in cost accounting and really what I would call extremely technical FP&A. And so happy to be here. And thanks.

I have to laugh when you say I did a stint in cost accounting. I bought a prison. You know, I did a stint now.

Like, you know, interestingly enough, sure, it was, it was very early in my career. I did it for four years right out of undergrad. And I will tell you this, I'm so fortunate that I did do it, but I'm also so fortunate that I did it back then.

Sure. No, I get it. I just couldn't resist. The way you said that kind of made me think of that. Ann, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself?

Sure. So I'm Ann. I grew up in Hanoi, Vietnam. I went to college at the University of Maine, majored in finance and have since worked for over 10 years, mostly investment banks. So if you've heard of Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley briefly at UBS and most recently Barclays Capital. So at these banks I worked first in investment research as a sell side research analyst, and then after that across different areas of finance like product control, which is P and L reporting, financial management reporting, regulatory reporting, and most recently ccar, which stands for the Comprehensive Capital Analysis and Review. Basically it's in the model execution and stress testing area. So this is within the scope of the large bank capital adequacy assessment, you know, through the annual stress testing as mandated by the Federal Reserve and this is just for banks like with over a billion dollars in assets. But actually right out of college I started in corporate finance in a two year rotational financial training program you probably heard of Circa City. So I was at in their rotational program for two years in Richmond, Virginia headquarter. Then after that I moved to New York City. I joined Lehman Brothers now Barclays Capital as a product control analyst. But I had an interest in investment research. So after two years in product control then at Lehman Brothers, I took an opportunity to transfer internally into sell side research role for three years. Then I took a few years off to become a stay at home mom and I have two kids. Then after that I went back to work and I joined Morgan Stanley for five years, then Barclays for another five years and, and worked in those areas as I mentioned earlier. Thank you for having me today.

Yeah, very happy to have you. Thanks for sharing a little bit of your background. And yeah, for those who aren't initiated with ccar, I know that's a lot of work. I, I work for American Express, a bank. I had a lot of friends in the regulatory side dealing with ccar. I actually once applied for a FP and a position with that. I didn't get it and I think it worked out for the best for me long term. But I know and not because work wouldn't have been good just for my career is one of those. That time I was very disappointed. You know it is. But it ended up being for the best for me. But I know C CAR is a lot of work and very important coming out of the financial crisis.

It's in season now, it's peak now.

Prevent, you know, prevent another Lehman Brothers.

Yep. So I should be in it.

Good deal. Fun. All right, so this is where we like to always start after background is what does great FP and A look like. And Dan, we're going to start with you. If you could define what it looks like, what is that like?

Yeah, sure. I think great FP and A ultimately is being able to identify the trends or the, you know, the, the variances, the issues at hand. Understanding. Okay, what, what are we seeing? Understanding the root cause behind what we're seeing. Right. So why is this happening? But I think really one of the biggest parts of FP&A is then ultimately the actionable insights thereafter. So the, so what if you will, which is, you know, something that we try to work on a lot with my team is we found this, I understand the root cause of it, but what does it mean? How do we go forward with this and what do we do to either stop what is negative and happening or enhance what the positive benefit of it is? And to me, that's really the crux of FP&A. It's really being able to find these insights and to help drive the business forward. And then the back end of that is ultimately being able to tell that financial story behind that. Right. And I think a lot of times within an organization, it's. You're dealing with stakeholders who, you know, don't have that financial acumen to the level that you do. And so you have to be able to synthesize that message. And I think that that's a really critical component of what great FP and A looks like.

Yep, got it. Now it makes a lot of sense. Anything you would add to that? Ann, any thoughts on that? Of what great FP and A looks like?

Wow, Dan, you covered it all. Sure. So it's just one more thing that I want to add is that nowadays it's all about staying ahead of the curve. Right. So what I've learned recently is looking ahead, the future of FPNA is going to change. So for a great fpa, it's important to start building automation skills so you're not left behind. Which means nowadays to understand how machine learning can improve the planning and forecasting and how to use AI tools that are emerging in this field. So that's. That's the only thing that I wanted to add.

Yeah, I know. It's exciting time with AI and some of that you do have. You do have to stay current and be able to use the software and technology to make your job easier and to get more done. If you want time to be a business partner, you got to spend less time cleaning data. Right. You guys have never spent a lot of time cleaning data, right?

Yeah, sure.

Oh, yeah.

Dan's just laughing over there going, yeah, right.

We still do that a lot, unfortunately.

Oh, yeah, no, I. I think everybody does. You know, AI will continue to help more and more of that, but we're still early. The promise and what the vendors are selling in reality haven't aligned yet. And whether they'll ever completely align. Probably not. Just like anything, right. Vendors always sell the perfect situation of what a tool will do. Then there's reality. I seen kind of Dan nodding his head. You never experienced that with any of your software platforms, right?

Right. No, they've all been perfect.

Exactly. As one guest I had on one time, he goes, as long as you have an okay ERPR accounting system implementation, he's like notice I didn't say good because there's no such thing as a good implementation. They're either bad or okay. And I just kind of laughed. So great. We're going to Just so the audience knows, we're going to spend most of the rest of the time talking about the Wharton Certificate of fpa. So Wharton Online and Wall Street Prep put together a program. I talked a little bit about it on a previous podcast where I talked about all the different certificates out there. Today we have two guests who have gone through the program so they're both going to share some of their reasoning, their thoughts to help you if you're thinking of trying to figure out what program is right for me. We'd love to for you to hear from some people who actually took the program. So we're going to jump into that now. And the first question I want to ask and we'll start with you here, Ann, what was your main reasoning or what was the thinking behind taking this certificate of FP&A from Wharton?

Yeah, so Rael, the first reason was that last year I was looking to transition back into corporate FNA environment after like about a while working in investment bank. So I started looking around for a high quality and well credited FPNA program, you know, to refresh my knowledge, to enhance my knowledge in this area, the core skills and all that. But I wanted to learn in a structured way and develop the expertise to become a great one. And especially now with the AI technology continuing to evolve and since before a long time ago I actually took a traditional self study textbook based FP and a program but I found it less helpful than I would have liked. So this time I was looking for a program that offered more than a typical certificate program, something that emphasized the practical knowledge from industry executives or than just theory. And because of my experience with the old one I wanted a program that would have more live interaction with the instructors, those that have deep industry experience. And then the next thing that I was looking for is that a program that could help me expand my program professional network beyond banking into other industries. All of them just because I was always in banking and most of my connections is in banking. So that was the top of my mind. So that way I could learn from like a like diverse FB and A professionals when I reenter the field and I could grow faster. So when I was searching for the right program I actually came across a LinkedIn post from my old boss and she's like a, like a seasoned finance leader from leading investment banks too and she posted and she said she just earned, like, an FBNA certificate from the Wharton and Wall street prep program, and she was very happy with the course. So I got interested immediately, and I reached out to her, and although she was very busy starting a new job, and she really very kind and generously spent hours discussing the program with me, and she spoke very highly of it. So after our conversation, I was fully convinced and I felt that this comprehensive program was, you know, right for me because it's. It sounded like it would provide me with everything that I was looking for in the certificate course. So I decided to take it. And I was pleased. Pleased to find that, you know, it actually exceeded my original expectations since it actually provided some more benefits beyond what I had anticipated. Like this interesting conversation that we're having now, which I would never have imagined.

Well, I'm glad you're. You're here. And I know just so the people know, both our guests, this is their first time on a podcast, so they made me promise I'd be nice. So I can't ask any questions today, just so the. The audience knows, but they're doing great. Thank you for. For doing this and for sharing, you know, your reasoning. Dan, what about you? What was your reasoning for doing the program? Sure.

Yeah. So, you know, and covered obviously, a lot. A lot of it. But for myself, you know, on a personal level, I've always wanted to make sure that as my career has progressed, you know, that I stay on top of industry trends. I don't get complacent in what myself or my teams are. Are doing. And responsibilities felt right for me to start to look for an opportunity to reinforce some of my, you know, experience over the years. And, you know, when I started to look into the Wharton program specifically, you know, I like the cohort element of it. Right. The fact that there would be interaction with other people, sort of like a class, if you will, where you can have that dialogue and discussion. Obviously, the networking component is a critical part of it, similar to Ann, you know, I've got a very strong pharmaceutical network, but this offered me the opportunity to expand that network into FP&A professionals, but also outside my sector of expertise, if you will. You know, and I think the other part of it, too, is the holistic component of it. Right. And we talked a little bit. Anne mentioned it, too, the Gen AI piece of it.

Right.

And so staying on top of industry trends. And for me, it's important that I try to remain, or I always want to remain, an early adopter into Technology and versus being so reactive potentially. And I think that when I kind of went through all of those things, I sort of landed on this, this program because I felt like it was really one of the, the few programs that really, truly for me match what I'm doing. Right. You know, some of the other components, there are puts and takes that are portions of your job. But this really was tried and true at FP&A. And just kind of gave me what I was looking for in terms of making sure I check all the boxes that I wanted to. From a personal development standpoint.

No, it makes a lot of sense. There's two things you said. I just want to ask a little bit of a follow up. First, you manage a team, you're a senior director. What was the response of your employees when they're like, you're gonna go spend 10 hours a week learning FP and A. Like, were they all part of. Were they kind of surprised? I'm just curious.

Yeah. Yeah, sure. Well, you know, I think the reality of it is, I hope at least that it was a little bit of a, A learning mechanism for them or maybe an aha for them to say, hey, look, you know, this is a. An individual who does have a tremendous amount of experience and is always looking to maybe raise the bar or better themselves. And so I think there's a, maybe a little bit of a teaching element of that. But I, you know, I tried to approach it with them in a similar light of myself to say, I don't know what I don't know, meaning I don't know if I have any blind spots or, you know, what's going on in the industry today for an FP and a standpoint, are. Are there are individuals or companies or organizations or even industries doing things differently that we're not doing, that we should be doing? And unless I probe that or try to figure that part of it out, you know, effectively, I could be stuck in my ways. And so I think from that standpoint, people understood, you know, my intent behind that. And then Also, you know, AI and you know, you talk about ChatGPT and Microsoft Copilot, and you know, these are buzzwords, but what do they actually mean and how do we handle them? And so I think that that was ultimately what I said to our team. And I think we all kind of came to a place to say, all right, we've got to fill in for Dan a little bit, help him out while he's busy doing this coursework. But on the back end, we'll hopefully Gain some insights.

You mean FP and A is busy?

Yeah, exactly.

You BOTH LAUGH. Exactly. We've all been there. And then one other question you brought up is one of the big things you liked is the cohort style. So how much involvement is there with the other students in the program? Can you maybe just speak a little bit to that? Sure.

So I could go to my, my, obviously speak to my personal experience with it. So, you know, they, they are setting up slack channels and opportunities for you to liaise, even if not live. But you can liaise through a, like a, a question board. There were virtual meetups where you just are, you know, obviously can meet up with folks and discuss things. We had WhatsApp chats. There's were different networking events, obviously happy hours and so just an ample amount of opportunity to meet people. And whether or not you spoke about the course, I mean, of course, inherently that was our common bond, so it became a larger topic, but it allowed you to organically form a network to meet people with similar interests and, you know, maybe folks that are trying to come into FP&A, so they would, you know, ask me those types of questions or other FP and A professionals that I met where maybe I'm saying, well, how are you guys sort of doing this today? Here's how we're handling that. So I think that that was kind of some of the interaction that I found to be really meaningful from a cohort standpoint.

FP and A guy here today. I'm super excited to talk to you about the FP and A Hub community, the online community that you can go to to get answers. Early in my career, I wish I had a place I could have went to where I didn't have to talk to somebody in the company, go to my boss again, or Google that I knew I could get answers from. That's what you can get at the FP and A Hub. You can make friends, you can learn from others, you can attend events, put discussions and posts out there. You don't have to worry about all the selling and cheat sheets and stuff you get on LinkedIn. This is real conversations by real FP and A professionals. We have over 1100 people in the community and it's absolutely free. That's the best thing. So please go ahead and join today. The FPA hub.com you can join for free at the FPA hub.com and the FPA guy looks forward to seeing you in this free community. Join today. Hey, thanks, Dan and I have a question for you. I'm curious Were there other programs you considered you'd taken that you said, I think it was text based and a textbook type program before and didn't quite have what you want. So, you know, was it really just Wharton? I think you mentioned you found somebody who took it. You asked them a lot of questions. So I'm guessing you kind of zoomed in on this one this time, but were there other programs you considered before you enrolled in the Wharton online program?

It's actually Wharton was the first one that I, you know, I came across and. But because of that personal connection with my, my old boss and I got like all the information from her and I just found that, you know, it was content, rich. It was, it sounded practical because they have like industry leaders coming to talk about different topics, how it is applied in like a real world. And it sounded like it was, the design was creative. Right, right. It's not like what you could see in many other program. So I, I thought that it was like, would be a perfect fit for me. So. And then I reached out to the coordinator and we had a conversation about it where she reaffirmed all the things that I heard about it. And you know, obviously my, you know, my old boss like strongly recommended it and spoke highly of it. So that was kind of a win for me. So I didn't feel the need to explore other options at that point.

Now it makes a lot of sense. Right? We all love when we get a good recommendation from somebody for something. It makes us much more comfortable. It's like when you apply for a job and you talk to somebody who worked there and they say, oh, I love it. Great company, they treat you well, versus if they say, and we've all been there. I would run if I was you. Like, maybe this isn't for me. Right. I think we could all relate to that a little bit. How about, how about you, Dan? Did you look at some other programs or was it pretty much zeroed in on this one and away you went?

I looked at a few other business school certification programs initially. To be honest, I wasn't 100% zooming in on it needs to be FPNA. I wanted to again, enhance myself, my own development and I was focusing, I was zooming in on certifications, certification type of courses, and I found some that were, you know, there's a lot of wonderful courses that, that offer different insights. But as I started to do my research, that's when I really started to hone in on the fact that, hey, I found this, this program at, at Wharton that does focus in an FP and A. And then that's when I started the, the, you know, the bell started to go off and say, whoa, you know, what a wonderful opportunity to learn about best practices that might be outside of my industry and expertise. And I, you know, similar to what Andrew's saying. I thought it was such a unique way of how they set it up and it kind of gave that fulfillment of truly what does an FPA professional do? But separately, what does, you know, what are some of the futures, the components of FP and A. And and then also the opportunity to learn, you know, from a Wharton professor. Right. I think that, you know, that also resonated with me to try and just, you know, to just be in that, that environment. I think it kind of got everything. It made me feel good about what I was walking into.

Got it. Thank you. I appreciate you sharing that. It sounds like you look at things beyond FP and A. Do I do another program in, you know, traditional university setting or what do I do? And felt like this was the best fit.

Yeah. And I also thought it was the most practical. I think that was. Sure.

That was a big part of sound. You were, you really wanted to see hands on, real world versus academic setting.

Yes, absolutely. Because again, I, I'm, I'm trying to take action myself. Actionable insights to bring back to my organization. Right. And so I thought that was the, the best way for me to do something like that. Less theory and more, you know, true discussion around the profession.

Yeah, I 100% understand what you're saying. When you could talk to all people, you know, most of those instructors or people that have worked in the field for years, you're getting their real world insights versus here's the theory behind the Black Scholes model or whatever. So I did that one for you and investment banking. I figured you might recognize that term. No. So I'm curious, what was your key takeaways from the program? You know, as you look back now, what's maybe the key thing you took away from this program? Ann?

Yeah, sure. And actually I wanted to add to the, the previous question because I actually had that very similar question to, to my old boss when I was talking to her. Like, why did she pick that? Because she just took the program and then she said that, you know, one of the biggest, the one that beyond other courses out there is the networking opportunity. So that sort of got me sold on it. So. Yeah. So the key takeaway from the program is that this program offers a variety of features that cater to different individuals like you. Like me and Dan, we benefited from different ways with different goals and different aspirations. But if you're like me, this program could be a good fit for you. If you're looking to transition into corporate FPA like me and seeking practical insights into the roles and responsibilities of the FP and a profession. And it's done in a very easy to follow format. Like I said, virtual meetings, one on one. And then the second thing that take away is that if you want to receive the professional advice and career guidance and resume and interview strategies for FP and A roles and learn how to navigate the FP and a recruiting process, they have like these direct one on one meetings with the, you know, the successful corporate FPA leader who taught the program. So that is a benefit that I don't think that is available in other typical certificate program out there. And then obviously if you want to understand what's included and you want to aim to enhance both your soft and technical skills for current and future FNA functions like AI on that, then this is done through a very interactive and creative learning platform. So and then the, the other thing that is I like about this program is that like if you're interested in learning from like the career paths, the key qualities of successful finance executives, you know, like CFOs or presidents of companies, they serve as guest speakers or lecturers in the program. So that, that I really enjoy for every single model. So yeah, like we talk about a lot like if you want to expand your professional network to include more FPA professions, you know, this is across all like diverse industries and regions and receive like ongoing professional support from your new connections which I've been receiving even after the program ends. And this could be a right program for you. It was right for me.

Great, thank you Anne. Dan, how has the program helped you? Like how have you taken it back to your day to day job? Sure.

You know, so I mentioned earlier, right. I wanted to know what, what am I missing or also reinforce or what we're doing or what am I, what am I doing today? Is it the, the best practice, the right thing to do? And so I think at a very macro level it did, it was able to reinforce, hey, you know, a lot of the things that we're doing today or are what's going on in the industry today. When we talk about variance analysis and how we kind of get to the root cause. But you know, not to get into too much technical stuff, but almost a small facet of the course was a component was about Rate volume. So you talk about price volume mix when you do, you know, revenue forecasting and so on. But rate volume from an expense standpoint was obviously something I'm familiar with, but not something that I think we were utilizing to the best of our ability, meaning building it into our base standard of, of how to do variance analysis. This is a very basic component. And so when I came back and we implemented that to say hey, you know, especially when we're talking about headcount variances and things of that sort, let's do this rate volume analysis. Excuse me, rate volume analysis that determine, hey, obviously is it, is it headcount driven, personnel driven or is it dollar driven? And if it's dollar driven, why. Right, and that's, and that is the, one of the more practical components of what we brought back. And then you know, the other thing is we talk about Gen AI, right, And Microsoft Copilot. And so to me that's something that I've personally taken a big step forward in using in, you know, my day to day component of things is just understanding, hey, you know, I've got to, I've got to present something, you know, just interested in an outline potentially of like, you know, what would be the, maybe the course of action to, to get the point across that I'm trying to make. And so you know, and sometimes I don't use it, you know, not using the output and using the outline. Sometimes I say ah, you know what, I think I could explain it better. But it at least it probes my creative thinking. Right. And I don't know that that was something that I would have been able to do organically. Right. And so you know, and I think that that's, that's been a really nice takeaway for me on the, on the personal front. So I think those two components of reinforcing learning something new to do more day to day and then the genie. So really some key takeaways that someone like myself who's been in the industry for a long time can still utilize and bring back and use going forward.

Thanks for sharing that Dan. You know, and I would love to know how has the program helped you since completing it? What are maybe some of the things you've taken away on it on a daily basis or things where you really feel it's helped you.

Yeah, so it helped me in many ways. So like I mentioned before, I took this course to prepare me to transition back to corporate FPA from an investment bank. So from this perspective, firstly because I gained a deeper understanding of the Role and having the FPA knowledge and the skill set refreshed in many areas and expanded in some. So it boosted my confidence and when I, you know, prepare for a job, interviews for FP&A roles, and it helped me tailor my strategies. And I think that if and when I start working, you know, perform the job, then I would be able to do it more effectively once I transition into the role. And then the other. The second thing is that this program is special in a way that it has a direct one on one meeting. So I took full advantage of that. And it's like only 20 minutes a week. But, you know, it's done by the, like a FNA leader who taught the program. So I received like the personalized professional advice, career guidance, you know, resume reviews and interview strategies for the FP and a roles that is tailored to my background. So that's like very valuable to me. This level of personalized support is unique, unique in a feature of this program. So the next benefit is that I achieved one of my key goals from the program, which was to grow my professional network significantly. So I think I doubled it. I did put a lot of due diligence on it. Like, I connected to everyone that I could and I, you know, kept conversation with them. I shared my input about the program, my thoughts, and so we, we, you know, exchanged messages and everything. It was not just like, you know, hey, connect. So that was very beneficial. So, so what that means is that, you know, when, when and if I need to learn about a company or industry, I feel like I could tap into my network to, to, you know, to, to find some support to get some insight about those companies. And that was one of my intention and it was very interesting and very rewarding to know more people, you know, the professions like you. And obviously this podcast is a great example of how the program has, you know, enabled me to connect with, with so many more professionals. And in return I'm, I'm also, you know, providing support to whoever reach out to me to ask questions. So it's very, very fun and very rewarding.

Good. I'm glad to hear you say that. It's always great to have rewarding and it's great for programs that give you that help with job and consulting and different things like that. You know, there's many of them don't I know a few, few that have started to add some things like that. And it's great that, you know, Wharton Online has that next question. So this is kind of a moment of truth question. I think they Say it takes you right now 10 hours a week. First cohort was something like eight. How much time did you really spend a week, Dan? Yeah, sure.

So I joke with. With Christian the, the. The program lead on this when, when he first asked me this question. So I was part of the first cohort, and I was told it was six to eight hours and then at most eight to 10 hours. And, you know, to, to be real, I would say, truthfully, it's north of that. You know, I'd say. And it varies by module, but really, when you're in the crux of the modeling and the crux of the coursework, you know, it's truly 10 to 15 hours, you know, a week. And that's, you know, from the start of the modules to the end of the exam. And, you know, and then it could even be longer when you, you know, listen to all the guest lectures and so on. And there were times where I had to go back and, you know, maybe wasn't able. Weren't able to listen to the guest lecturers for that given week, but, you know, would go back and listen to them. But, you know, simply put, the course is not. It's not easy. I don't know how to say that, but I mean that with all due respect because I think it's meaningful. Right. You're putting in this time, this effort, and hopefully gaining and getting out of it what, you know, what you're ultimately paying for. And so it definitely does take time, but there's also a really good reward at the end of it, that sense of fulfillment. And then also obviously, the accomplishment of getting certification.

Got it. Well, thank you. That's good. Just for people to know, to go in and say, look, here's the average estimate. Many people spend more than that. Be prepared. And what about you? How much time did you put in a week?

Oh, that's the question that I thought about the longest couldn't count. I'm still spending time on it now. There are many, like, electives that I. Very good. That I have not been able to go through, but just for, you know, the. During the course, then I would say at least 12 hours for me. So that covered the time to go over all the video lessons. I would say, like, say six, could be seven, could be five. Take notes. I did not take notes as much as some other people, but I did, you know, rewind the video. So that's. That counted as taking notes. Practice quizzes. And I took full advantage of the office hours, which is one once a week. There's a one on one meeting, about 20 minutes. But I prepared for it. So that was some time and of course exam time depending on each person. But it could be 30 to 50 questions, could be very long.

And then.

And then the exam result review because you know, the questions can be challenging and could have been interpreted many different ways. So, so yeah, it's, it's very comprehensive. It's no joke. It has elements that keep it not dry, interesting. There's always something new or something deeper or something fun or something practical to learn from. So it was long, but it was good.

FP and A Guy here today. I want to talk about something that can help you in your career. That's FP and A certificates. We all want ways to stand out and to validate to our employers that we're serious about our profession and that we understand that a great way to do that is to get a certificate or a credential that demonstrates your ability to do the work. There are several great programs out there in FP and A and Financial Modeling and I cover those on my website. I've done an episode on FP&A tomorrow about them and I'm doing episodes in the future about all the different programs bringing in customers to talk about them. So if you're interested in showing your employer that you're serious about FP&A and upgrading your skills, look at an FP&A certificate. There's ones from FPAC, Wharton Online, CFI, FMI offers a great one for advanced financial modeling. There's the FP and A Professionals Institute and others and I cover all those on my website. So go to the FP and A guy and check them out. Go to certificates and courses, FP&A certificates. And the best part is with each of these programs I have a discount code where you can receive receive a special discount for taking that program. So check it out. Today, level up your skills by earning a certificate or credential to demonstrate your seriousness about around FP&A. I hear you, but I, I saw Dan kind of nod who said there could be a lot of questions for some of the exams. I think it was for Cohort 2. I reviewed some of the questions. They always have a second person reviewing them. And you know, being one of the instructors, I think I've mentioned that before, but if people followed me, they know I was one of the instructors in the program. So I'm quite familiar with it. I know you know Christian well and so I've seen some of those test questions and I know some of them sometimes they're hard to not make them a little ambiguous. There's always some challenges and you definitely need to be paying attention. So I would agree with both of you on that. All right, next one. This should be kind of a fun question and maybe we'll start here with you on Anne. So was there a favorite module or section where you just. You were like, wow, I really learned a ton. I love that. That just kind of stood out to you. I know usually people have an area they kind of enjoy the most when they're doing a program.

Yeah. Like I said, the way that it's designed, it's. I think it's clever because it's just always something in some. In a model. Like it's not the whole thing, but there's always fun. But so I think about it as I define my favorite module as one where I learned something. Something completely new. Right. That I did not know before on Belly. And intriguing. So in the context of finance. So that's why I got to. I highlight the last module in the course. It's titled like Preparing for the Future of fpa. So what this module does is that it's focused on how FP and A professionals can leverage tools like ChatGPT to save time and become more effective. And then I learned how to use the free version of the tool to analyze data, to protect sensitive information, and to write financial commentary and to visualize results. So I found this one very fascinating, which actually piqued my interest in exploring how AI is being integrated into finance today. So I had a little adventure after that. So I recently embarked on a small adventure with a company specialized in AI and machine learning. Inspired by that module, I took on projects with them as an AI trainer for finance, where I helped train AI models for financial analysis and strategic planning. And it's done in an interesting way that it leveraged like I leveraged my finance expertise, stimulate complex and real world scenarios. It has to be like no textbook scenarios. And then to help AI systems to understand and execute the more advanced financial task effectively. So that is one of the immediate benefits of taking the course. And I truly enjoyed the opportunity to dive deeper into the AI applications in finance from that module.

Thank you. Appreciate you sharing that. Ann. I was hoping you'd say the Power Query section. I'm kidding.

Next one is the Power Query. After that I took another Power Query course because I couldn't have enough of it. I actually earned another certificate of Power Query from the Corporate Finance Institute.

Love it.

Yes. Yes.

And so for anyone who doesn't know. I did the Power Query section. That was some of the training I did. So I was just kind of joking with Anne there that that was a little bit of an inside so people don't know. But Dan, what about you? What was your kind of favorite module or section?

Sure, this is totally unprompted actually, but module four, which is financial analysis in fpa happened to be my favorite. And of course, actually Paul, that is where your Power Query one came to be. But you know, we talk about different goals and different motivations. Right? So ends motivation is a little bit different than mine. But my big motivation was, you know, wanting to make sure, reinforce and, and, and relearn and the different techniques that are going on today in FP and A to make sure that, you know, we're doing the right thing in our business and in my team. And so module four kind of was the crux of, in my opinion of fpna. Right. You talk about Power Query but you talk about data cleansing. Right. Some of the hardest parts of being an FP and A is starting. All right, I've got a big chunk of stuff and I need to provide an actionable insight about it. And so I think that that was a really wonderful module to kind of walk you through the steps. All right, so here's this data component. How do we kind of parcel this out and get some meat, if you will, that we can look at and then some of the different techniques and variance analyses and what is a variance analys, what does that mean? And then ultimately being able to convey that story. Right. And so I found that to be for me the most practical for what I was looking for out of the course. And it just was a really good foundation for someone who might be wanting to come into FP and a frankly to understand what does a day to day kind of situation look like? Well, that, that was, that was it.

You know, and you made me kind of chuckle as you were talking about, you know, how we deal with data. Real life fp, you spend a lot of time with data. I saw something that once said, how would you describe the job of an FPA professional? And the description was we spend 80% of our time cleaning data and 20% complaining about the data we have to clean.

Right, right.

You know, there are definitely days it feels like that. I mean, obviously it's an exaggeration, but it kind of made me chuckle because you do spend a lot of time cleaning and working with data. If that's the you don't enjoy doing or at least can't, you know, can't tolerate it. For the other stuff you really enjoy, this isn't the right place for you. If that's a truly painful thing, then you might want to rethink your profession because at least still today, hopefully we'll get better and continue to with AI and other things. But you're going to spend some cleaning. All right.

And and learn power theories.

Yes. Thank you, Anne.

I love wish I had done that before I did see car.

Yeah. Power Query is a wonderful tool. I talk about it a lot. I had a guest one time that said when they described their favorite thing about Power Query, they said about Excel, like my favorite thing of Excel is Power Query Angels came down when I learned about it and I just kind of, kind of laughed. So we've had some fun moments around that one. Is there a section you maybe you found less beneficial or didn't enjoy as much? Not to say it's a bad section. I mean I imagine they're all good modules, but was there one of those you're just kind of like I already know all this or I'm never going to use this in my work or maybe you just thought wasn't as beneficial to you. We'll start with you, Dan, on this one.

I probably gave it away earlier in the interview when I said I did a stint in cost accounting. And I want to be truthful. I think it's is there's tremendous value in it. And I think actually the module truly was. Was wonderful. It was, it was real. That doesn't mean it was my favorite, of course.

And that's why the least favorite I'm trying to.

It was very technical. But everything that we were taught in the module is. Is really what a cost accountant does. Right? You're, you know, talking about setting standards and you're talking about overhead rates and really what I'll say dense technical skill set. And so while I do think it was it is foundational and super important. I, I would be honest and say that it was probably maybe not my, my favorite of the program.

Very diplomatic, Dan. Spoken like a senior finance professional. You know, when you were playing that bad commentary, that bad month. But we had this strength and well, you have to be aware of this and I get it. Well done. You get an A for that one. Ann, how about you?

Yeah, so I've thought about this and unfortunately I don't have a list favorite module either. And the reason is because I think like I mentioned before, this program, the way that it's designed, it's Creative and it's thoughtful. So it may not be the case for all of the content in a module. Like there's no way that a module can have everything that you like, right? There may be something that you don't like, but then because the things that I like kind of made up for it. So like, you know, each offers something interesting, some thought provoking, something valuable for me, something that can, you know, help meaningfully to enhance my skills or just something, you know, enjoyable to listen to. So it could be like a new concept completely or it could be like understanding how the theories we learned are implemented practically in the real world. It could be something that I can relate to my existing experiences, like say, for the things that I already knew, like forecasting, financial modeling and all those. But then put into the context of the corporate FB and A, then I could relate to it. So it was not boring. And then, you know, some topics they dive deeper into, you know, the specifics or, you know, to help me refresh the knowledge that I learned before that I may have forgotten because I haven't used it, you know, for a long while. So that was why, you know, it's something there that interested me. And then, and then in every module they have a particularly they. I enjoy the guest speaker series because it's embedded into each model. So that's why no module is boring for me. And then they tailor specifically to the topic of the module to help make that could be textbook dry knowledge, bring it to life. Right? So that's why it's interesting. And the guest speakers are all finance executives and CFOs. And, and it's all like from different companies, different industries and company sizes. So, you know, hearing from them directly and you know, hearing how the theories that we learned, we just learned like you know, two hours before you know, implemented practically. So that's why it was interesting and valuable. So that's why it's hard for me to pinpoint any particular model. I say yes, strategic cost accounting kind of came up to me too, but because I'm, you know, I wasn't always in accounting, but then it had other things to like make it interesting. Like, you know, there would be someone talking about how it's applied in the real world. So. So that's why I couldn't find one. Like if they just have one module that does not so many different elements, then there might be, but the way that they decide.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I think it's clever.

Thank you, thank you for sharing that, Ann. I appreciate it we're going to move into the FP and A section. This is a standard question every guest gets. We'll look for just kind of a quick short answer to get your thoughts on, on these. So we'll start here. I think we'll start with. We'll start with an here. What is the number one technical skill that FPA professionals need to master?

Oh wow, that's a lot. Yeah, that. So the technical skills, I there are a long list of them, right? Financial modeling. And you go from, I would say, I don't know, five or seven accounting, forecasting, excel, including power queries, root cause analysis, budgeting, reporting, presenting, all that. But I think the number one would be for me would be financial modeling. You know, because it's the foundation and I was fortunate enough. I've been working many, many years in financial modeling. So it's the foundation for budgeting, forecasting, scenario analysis, all kinds of fun things. Stress testing, CCA sensitivity analysis. So if you master this, you can build robust models, different scenarios, assess risks and if you want to be able to make recommendations and you have data driven recommendations, not just back of the envelope. And yeah, so that is to me, that is financial modeling.

All right, Dan, what about you? What do you think that number one skill is?

To me it's analytical proficiency. I've sort of made that up, but I think it encompasses a lot of what Ann was mentioning too. But at the end of the day, the goal is for us to deliver a solution or an insight for, create progress for the organization one way or the other. And you can't do that unless you can really analyze information and get to really the deep, you know, the deep components of what is the issue at hand. And so I think sometimes there might be instances where people just do maybe just get to surface level the source of the, of an issue or the variance and present it as such, but not actually going in further and understanding. Well, how do I change that? And so to me that that is all encompassed in what I'll call analytical proficiency.

I like it. Good, good term. Appreciate that and thank you for both those answers. We'll move to the next one. So what's the number one soft skill, Dan, that we need or human skill, whatever you want to call it?

Yeah, sure. To me, absolutely. It's being able to confidently convey and tell a financial story. I think many FP and A professionals, we all sort of start with that technical foundation, right. That's the source of all of our efforts when we're younger in our career. But you Know, I think what starts to separate people as you progress in your career is being able to then tell that story, synthesize that message, and convey that to leadership, but also to stakeholders who may be outside of finance. So that soft skill, that communication component, is as important and in some respects, maybe even more important than the technical side of things. You obviously need the technical foundation, but if you can't explain it, then what good is it? And so I think that's something that takes a lot of time to learn, but when you can get there, you know, then you're really rounding out your. Your career and your skill set.

Great, thank you. And what about you, Ann? What's that softer human skill that you think is number one?

Yeah, I completely agree with Dan. And communication skills. So it's the hardest to master, but it's the most important one.

Yeah, definitely. Communication is huge. I mean, that's the one we hear a lot, obviously. Modeling. We hear a lot. We've heard analytics. It's always fun to see the difference people have because there's no right answer or wrong answer to these. It's, hey, what. What do you think is most important? I guess I could say there are a couple wrong answers. I'm sure there's some things, if I heard it, I'd be like, I know where that came from. But anyway, so now we're going to ask you one question. Each is kind of in the interest in times. We're about ready to wrap up here. Kind of personal question, just kind of a fun one. So we'll start here with you, Dan, on this one. If you could have any job in the world for one week, what job would you take and why? Sure.

I think about this, and I guess it's a little bit cliche, but to be honest with you, I think I would love to be honestly, a professional athlete in a team sport like football or baseball. And putting money aside for a second. I know, which is. I shouldn't say that in this podcast, right? But, you know, it's actually the. The team element that, to me, is, I think, the. The coolest part of it. Right. You know, I. I was fortunate enough to grow up playing sports, and some of my best friends today are guys that I played sports with growing up, and so that I. You missed that team element. And I just think it would be such a cool experience to be an athlete, be in a game and kind of go through the trenches with the. Your teammates and. And sort of form that bond. I. You know, it's hard to replicate that in A day to day. And so that would be what I think a really neat experience to do if I had the opportunity to.

All right, so if you could be any athlete in any sport for one game, who are you going to be?

Oh, my gosh. You know what? I'll just say I'd like to be LeBron James, because that way I could just be the best at my game from. From a basketball standpoint, the best player, the best teammate, and it would be cool to be. To be that awesome.

As I say, you just want to be king for a day.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Anyone who follows LeBron will know what I'm talking about there. If not, you can go Google it. All right, Ann, here's your question. What did you want to be when you grew up? What was it when you were a child? You're like, I want to be this.

Yeah. So many people can answer that question so easily. But, you know, for me, like, it's funny when I. I often think back to when I was growing up, like, what I wanted to be, and I realized that I really never had a clear idea of what I wanted to be. Maybe nobody asked me that question then. Didn't provoke my thoughts. I do remember clearly, though, that I did not want to be what I did not want to be. So one is, I ruled out becoming a doctor or a nurse because I wasn't great at chemistry at school, so not sure about pharmaceutical job 10. Teaching wasn't also for me either. I did not enjoy, like, tutoring my little brother. You know, even for the subject that I liked in school more than others. Yeah. So back then, when I grew up, we didn't have much else to do besides school. So the subject that I. It's mostly about school. Right. So the subject that I enjoy the most is in school was math, because I think I. Because I had a great math teacher then, so. And my mom used to work in banking academic institute. So I think that's probably impacted me. Naturally, I envisioned for a future, you know, in finance, perhaps at a bank, you know, which was a path that I eventually pursued when I moved to America. So I guess finance. So now I want to be in corporate FBA instead of in investment bank.

Got it. Well, thank you. Thank you both for joining me. I really enjoyed our chat today, appreciate all the advice you've given us. And, you know, let's say someone's listening to this podcast and they'd love to get in touch with you or potentially ask a question. Is there a best way for them to do that is it LinkedIn or you know, what would you say, Dan?

Yeah, definitely reach out via LinkedIn for me. My name, Dan Cotoya, is how you'll find me through LinkedIn and happy to talk through the program. The coursework, obviously, you know, FPA in general, anything I could do to help to help somebody along that. No problem doing.

So thank you, really appreciate that. How about you?

Yes, LinkedIn too for me, I'm there.

That's what I think. Well, thank you so much both of you for coming on and sharing about your experience. I really think this series will be helpful for our audience. We're covering all the major different programs out there so people can hear what actual experience is like where somebody who took the program. So thank you so much for carving out some time. I know it's evening for both of you getting a little late, so we really appreciate it. Thank you.

Thanks a lot. Pleasure.

Thank you.

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