Modernizing FP&A With Ken Lane

How do you see AI and just this change in technology impacting finance?

You can give the guidelines to the AI and you're getting what you need instantaneously where you're getting to more real time so that I think that you can make. I'm hoping the goal is that we'll be able to make more real time decisions in the business that impacts directly. Now the goal of FP&A is to drive business change. So you need to understand the bottlenecks in each area. And I find it if those people feel heard, they'll buy into what you're delivering. The complexity of supply chain just in other than maybe the forged GM Chryslers of the world, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's really watching that turnover ratio as well as working closely with supply chain to make sure that you have what you need, that you can get what you need, but you're not harming the business cash flows. Accounting is the overarching umbrella.

Any advice you'd offer for someone who they've been in really just heavy accounting roles and they want to make that.

Change a couple of ways. The first way is.

FP&A guy here. Have you ever wanted to level up your FPA skills? Then check out the FP&A guys ultimate course bundle at the fpnaguy.com that's the fpandaguy.com and use code podcast to save 25%. Get started learning today. Hello everyone. Welcome to FP&A tomorrow where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. Each week we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting your FP and a journey, this show has something for everyone. This week. I am thrilled to welcome onto the show Ken Lane. Ken, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you for having me, Paul.

Yeah, excited to have you. So just a little bit of background about Ken and I'll allow him to introduce himself further in a few minutes but he comes to us from Ontario, Canada. He is a financial controller. He spent most of his career either working as a controller or kind of manager, finance, accounting and he spent most of it in the mid market in several different industries. So Ken, we like to start the show with this question for all our guests. From your viewpoint, what does great FP.

And A look like for me the great FPA is collaboration with all the entities within your business. Because what you know the goal of FPA is to drive business change. So you need to understand the bottlenecks in each area. And I find it if those people feel heard, they'll buy into what you're delivering.

I would agree with that. So it's really around the collaboration and making sure the business feels heard correct. What's your thoughts? What do you expect it to look like in the next three to five years? Do you think what great FP&A is going to change with everything that's going on with technology and other things?

I do, I think it will. I think in large companies it's going to change faster than in smaller mid market and the reason being is I think a lot of mid market companies still have a lot of legacy systems or multiple legacy systems within a business and they're going to need to upgrade and change those to get the full value of the future of fba.

We're not speaking from experience having worked with a lot of mid markets by chance, are we?

Not at all.

I'm sure you could tell me some data horror stories. That's probably what I should start off with. Tell me your worst data horror story. Might keep that in mind for future episodes. Tell me a little bit about yourself and your background.

Yeah, so I'm here in southern Ontario, been in accounting now 20 plus years to be honest. Went through school, came up with a computer science degree and then fell into accounting and then kind of worked my way up, worked with some great mentors, then went back and took some university courses for management accounting, financial accounting, all those key things, but never worked my way through to get licensed as a cpa. And then I've transitioned from working across a whole variety of industries. Some of those interesting enough, you know, to progress and take a step up and then even in some of those took a step back because a job or role had skills that maybe I didn't have yet. So went back and pay went back and maybe in leadership to eventually elevate myself later.

Got it. What led to accounting? If you started with computer science, maybe dig into that a little. I'm curious how the switch happened.

Sure. I got my first job with a, with a finance organization, a financial like banking organization and they were looking for someone that both understood business and understood it and I fit that role. Growing up. My parents had multiple small businesses and my mom always did the accounting so I was always around it. So it wasn't Brand new to me. I'd been around it. It comes natural to me to a certain extent. So I'd seen it growing up, you know, using original ledger books, you know, writing it in pencil and putting everything in the ledger books. And saw all that, seeing all that. And then when I went to this finance institution, I did both for a while and then they opted, they felt that I gave them more value on the accounting side and then kept pushing me to progress and progress and progress and I just realized that I really did enjoy it and then, you know, started taking additional courses and doing everything to get certifications to move on.

So you grew up around it. They want someone on the business side, found you liked it, figured you'd get some more education in the area.

Correct.

Got it. I know you spent pretty much your entire career working in the mid market. Why, why mid market companies? What is it you like so much about them?

I like the fact that you get to, I feel like you really make an impact. So when I'm in mid market companies I tend to find that most of those are still family owned companies, maybe multi generational companies as opposed to large. I, I did spend some time in some very large companies, but most of it are mid market. And I feel like that when you're helping out or you're, you're driving decision making, you see that impact on the bottom line, you see that impact on the family that helps them. When I was with the large companies, sometimes I was, I'd see a strategy that would come down from corporate office but didn't understand how what I did actually fed into that strategy.

So you mentioned, you know, one can make a bigger difference, you feel more involved than sometimes the big huge companies. And if anyone's worked in one, sometimes you feel a little bit like a cog or can't see how everything relates. So I'm curious, can you share an example where you felt like your work made a big difference in the mid market where you've seen that direct impact of what you were doing?

Sure. One of the companies I've worked for, they've acquired other companies over time. They had this nice small portfolio of companies that was doing very well. Somebody in their field became available. So what I was able to do then was forecast out all their portfolio of companies, do the fpa, do the forecast for the next so many years. And then with that work was able to get them preferential financing from the banks to acquire that company that they later acquired and has been growing since.

Thanks, I appreciate you sharing that. It sounds like that's one opportunity that you're really proud of and made a big difference. So that's always fun to have. Kind of speaking of making a big difference, do you feel like it's hurt you in any way that you've worked for so many different industries or do you think it helps you when you go to a different industry having, you know, worked in several. I think you've worked manufacturing, automotive, cannabis, commercial property and I know different areas within manufacturing. So maybe talk a little bit to that.

It's a two edged sword. It can help you, it can hurt you. For me, it helped me. One of the reason is accounting is different based on what company or what industry that you're in. So I've worked with people that is like oh, you know, I spent four years getting an accounting degree, I got my CPA and I realized I hate accounting. And they go, do you hate accounting or do you hate the field that you're in because you're not relating to what you're doing, what you're working on, the business that you're in, it doesn't speak to you. So I've tried a variety of different industries to see where I really enjoy my fit and I always tend to come back to manufacturing and that's where I am now. And I, and I really enjoy it, enjoy a company that actually manufactures something to go out. They tend to be complex. You know, you have a lot of inventory, a lot of, a lot of things to work on, a lot of different, you're working with sales across variety of spectrums. So I ended up finding that manufacturing is kind of the niche I like working in. But going across those industries allowed me to figure that out.

And what is it about manufacturing that you enjoy? What is that makes that fun compared to other industries?

For me it's the complexity of it, especially since post Covid, the complexity of supply chain just in time, other than maybe the forged GM Chryslers of the world, it doesn't really exist anymore. You still have supply chain problems, you're still having problems bringing stuff in from China. You have to look at the macro environment as well. There's a lot of things that come into China in all of North America and what happens with the relationships between the governments and all these things you have to take into kind of your forecast and that and go what if scenarios and things like that. So for me in manufacturing there's just so many moving parts versus let's say a service business that I just enjoy seeing all those different things come together and able to deliver a product to the market that the market wants.

Got it. That makes a lot of sense. What are the, maybe the key metrics you like to look at in a manufacturing industry? What are those, maybe those key operational metrics that you feel help you have a good understanding of. Is the business doing well? Is it struggling? Hey, there's a sign something may be going wrong.

Yeah. The big thing is for manufacturing is your cash conversion, making sure that you're turning that inventory over at a regular basis to bring the cash in for your operating cash flow. It's easy right now and I'm finding this with businesses right now, what they're doing is in order to make sure that they have a safety stock to get things out because the just in time isn't there anymore. They're holding more and more inventory, which is tying up dollars. But then you're watching that bank account drop, drop, drop because you got more going out than coming in. So it's really watching that turnover ratio as well as working closely with supply chain to make sure that you have what you need, that you can get what you need, but you're not harming the business caps wise.

So it sounds like you're still dealing with a lot of supply chain issues. So companies are holding on to longer supply and inventory. So you really got to manage that because obviously that's cash, which isn't surprising. I mean, at the end of the day, doesn't matter how profitable you are, if you have no cash in the bank, you got a problem. Makes a lot of sense there. How did you transition from accounting to more of an FP and a role and how did that come about?

So for me, right from the beginning of my career, so I guess I have a different, slightly different definition of accounting. To me, FP&A is a subset of accounting. Accounting is the overarching umbrella all the way from the bookkeeping, which is all the recordings, which now most certified bookkeepers will take you right to the financials and then your FP and A. So every corporation I've been part of, we've had to. Whether I've had the title of cost analyst. You have to understand your business, you have to understand the cost, the drivers, you have to understand your sales, what the variances are. You know, is it a mix, is it a pricing, what is going on? So it's always been part of my role from day one. It's never been just recording, it's always been part of it.

And I think that makes a lot of sense being in smaller mid Mid market companies to have that because I've definitely seen some of the bigger companies I work in where some people's roles are just recording, you know, and I've definitely in an FP and A roles, I've done some accounting, not a lot, but I booked, you know, I booked some journal entries here and there and helped with all those things. So I get it. There's definitely some overlap between the two. Interesting perspective. I don't think I've ever thought of FPA including accounting. I've generally thought of them differently. So I appreciate you sharing a different perspective there. It's always good to see how think people think about it. Any advice you'd offer for someone who they've been in really just heavy accounting roles and they want to make that change to FP&A. How do you think they go about that?

A couple of ways. The first way is understanding your business. So again, what are, what are the drivers in your business to do FP&A and I think to do be very good at FP&A, you have to understand everything on the accounting side, especially the cost drivers and things that are driving those bottom numbers. You know, you have to understand, you know, your purchasing department, what is, you know, cost avoidance versus cost savings, things like this. So get to know all the different individual areas of the company, how they impact the company so that you can start thinking how does this work as a whole? And I think that's what you need to do because when you're in sometimes just in an accounting role, you're looking at one small section versus looking at the broader picture. So you need to understand that broader picture. And, and I think when you're looking to move over, when you get interviewed, you can start expressing, hey, this is how you know the broader picture is impacting you. And I see that. I can help you there.

Got it. And I would agree with that of really starting to understand the broader picture in the business is one of the most important things you have to do. I want to switch gears here a little bit. I know when you and I chatted we talked quite a bit about technology and you had mentioned how SMB and mid markets from your perspective will need to invest more in tech going forward. Why is that?

What I alluded to before, a lot of these companies have multiple legacy systems. A lot of SMBs will purchase other smaller companies to grow. They have their own legacy systems that they're using. So you need to invest in tech, A to bring it all together and B to streamline your data because the issue is right now, even if you have, you know, even if you want to use AI, your data is not scrubbed to do that because it's all been acquired in different ways and could be potentially slightly different data even though it has the same name. So you don't know if your outcomes are going to be correct. So you need to make sure that you have the systems in place to be able to get the correct data, that your data is equal across all silos, that you're getting out good information makes sense.

So obviously big companies tend to have deep pockets. You know, multimillion dollar transformations are not uncommon. How do smaller companies manage to do that with a limited budget? How do you kind of make sure you have the right tools? Any thoughts there?

Sure. I mean, I think you work here, you work closely with your IT department most. And the IT department may be a single person and maybe a couple of people and maybe an outsource. But you start looking at where are we going forward as a business again, what are our key drivers, what are we looking for, where are we trying to get and what are we trying to do? And then go, okay, where is there a potential tech stack that can help us? Is that an all in one ERP system? Is that a few individual systems, you know, built on, you know, Sage or a couple of other different things? See, that's kind of how you want to look at it, is where are we going forward and then how, what do we need to get there and then what can we utilize to help get us there? It's a time consuming process, but it can be done.

Yeah. Well, anytime you get into a lot of tech, the heavy lift, especially a new erp, I'm curious, what's the maybe transformation or system process you've been involved in that you've been most proud of, that's kind of gone the best. I'm sure you've done a few if you've worked for a lot of mid markets.

I have. We have one right now. Honestly, we're going to a full ERP across all our different individual business units. And it's like I said before, it's a company that grew and acquired other mom and pop shops. They've come back after a recommendation and when I started with them, one of the things was we need to streamline our tech. How do we do it? I came up with a recommendation, they came back and they're fully on board. And it's great because it's a multi generational family, but at the same time they're fully supportive of passing it down to the next generation. So making the investment now for the future.

Got it. And so how, how's the project going? Are you close to being done or just getting started or.

We're just getting started and this is where we took a lot of time to pick the right ERP2 stages. 1. Picking the right partner. Because regardless of what you pick, whether you pick, you know, a netsuite or a Sage, if you have the wrong partner and it's installed incorrectly, it doesn't matter what you do because you're going to have, you know, bad data in, bad data out. The systems are a tool. And so we spent a long time deciding on who the right partner was, working with some independent consultants and then looking at also aligning with that what are the correct softwares for the business that we're in. And then took us a long time, narrowed it down to about eight, then five and then we went down to providing full flowcharts to say this is how our business runs for the last two present to us how your system does what we need.

FP and a guy here. And as you know, I am very passionate about financial modeling in the Financial Modeling Institute's mission. I have been a huge fan of the FMI for years and I was super excited when they decided to sponsor the Financial Modelers Corner. I recently completed the Advanced Financial Modeler certification and loved the entire experience. It was top notch from start to finish. I am a better modeler today for having completed the certification. I strongly believe every modeler needs to demonstrate they are a qualified financial modeler. And one of the best ways to do that is through the FMI's program. Earning the accreditation will demonstrate to your current and future employees, employers that you are serious about financial modeling. What are you waiting for? Visit www.fminstitute.com podcast and use code PODCAST to save 15% when you enroll in an accreditation today. Yeah, I mean the more work you put up front, the higher the chance of success. And I couldn't agree more with how important selecting the right partner is that you're comfortable they can really build what you need. Because as you said, a tool is just a tool. It's about the people, it's about the process. The tool serves as an enabler. If you have the right people, the right processes, you don't get those right tool ain't going to solve your problems.

Correct.

I'm with you on that. So as we talk about tools, right, it seems like all anyone wants to talk about these days is AI Generative AI, all the different models are out there and how cool they are, blah, blah, blah, on and on and on. You get the idea. How do you see AI and just this change in technology impacting finance?

I see it's just again, a couple of things. One is being able to pull that data from multiple silos if the data is clean. And that's the key part is making sure it's clean and equal. But pulling that from multiple silos, but speeding things up, you know, what takes maybe quite a long time to pull data now put it into Excel, you know, generate whatever reports you're doing that you can give the guidelines to the AI and you're getting what you need, you know, instantaneously where you're getting to more real time so that I think that you can make. I'm hoping the goal is that we'll be able to make more real time decisions in the business that impacts directly now. So you start to be able to pull together almost leading indicators as opposed to trailing and say, hey, this is where something's going, this is where trends going. We need to get on this and make those decisions quicker.

Yeah. So you see it really kind of helping with the cleaning, the connecting data and allowing us to analyze and get quicker answers from the data.

Yeah. And hopefully identify trends that we may not even see. I'm hoping when it puzzles it together, it says, hey, this is what I'm seeing within your data. You know, this is what the data's showing me. And you go, wow, I didn't even notice that.

Yeah. I was talking to somebody in fact today who talked about how you can use AI. A great way to use AI is to be a contrarian, to ask it, to kind of play a devil's advocate almost. And it'll give you some really good answers. Another it said is don't be descriptive with it. Like if you give it some data, start small and ask it to find three patterns or three, identify three things. Instead of saying, tell me about this, this and this, let it decide what to tell you about. Because it's better at processing that data set and often coming up with things that we would never notice. Right. We're not designed to look at millions of records. We can do it by summarizing and aggregating. But a computer can go through and look at every one of them and find those patterns.

Absolutely.

It really is. It's amazing to think how quick they're getting. You know, I had another conversation with someone around quantum computing and as we start to, you know, go down that route, what that will allow us to do because the quantum computer power just changes the game. Add that with AI and you know, it's exciting and scary and all at one. But you talked about the data. But beyond analyzing the data real time, is there anything else that kind of really has you excited about AI and fpa, like other use cases that you're like, I can't wait.

It's. It's hard for me to say because I'm thinking, you know, what we're kind of talking about today or what we're seeing today. And I think what we're going to see 24 months from now is going to be drastically different. So I'm excited where we're going. I just don't know where that is.

Come on, you can be a futurist.

One thing I might not be that great at.

Come on. But you're fpa, don't you always. Aren't we always forecasting the future?

We are. We're forecasting the future. We're doing rolling. We're, you know, we're trying to take again that data and change it out. I'm finding it really difficult because everything I look at, it seems like things are moving much faster than I would expect. I don't, I don't know if that's even accurate. It's just, it's moving. It kind of blows my mind how fast things are moving and how every software now is integrating this. And so I think that's, that's part of it is two years from now, three years from now, even all the small companies that are just getting new small software packages will have this built into that package and how we utilize it. I think it's just going to be exponentially different.

I agree. I mean we don't know all the use cases yet. We'll continue to develop them. I definitely have some thoughts. I think everybody does. But it has moved quickly and I'm sure, like I think I've heard, December is when chat GPT5 is supposed to come and I'm sure we'll be surprised with that again and whatever's next. So we're starting to get handle on IT and learning and growing, but there'll be more and more surprises we go through this. I have no doubt question I want to ask you about, you know, companies retaining technology. Something I've noticed, particularly with Gen Z, I've had some on shows and interviewed them, is they're not as willing to deal with bad systems, data and processes. I think as a lot of workers who have been there a long time. Right. They've grown up in a tech age where you kind of just expect everything to work. It's quick. So how do you think that's going to impact, you know, smaller companies in their investing? How do they make sure they retain top talent and attract if they're struggling with their systems?

Yeah, that, that's, that's a two edged sword there. I think they're going to have to invest to retain the top talent because you know, I think as a, as a field, unfortunately we're not getting as many, you know, accountants and FP&A people out to the marketplace that we'd like to see. I think there's way more roles than there are people. And so then it's going to be, you know, they're going to be fighting for those smaller pool of people in environments that they come in and go, this doesn't work. Like I learned stuff in college that's way beyond this and then, and the stuff I expected to use in industry is beyond. So companies like that are going to have to make it a priority for themselves where maybe the tech in the back in the past wasn't, has to be a priority for small middle sized businesses going forward to make sure that they're on at least a competitive playing field.

I would agree with that. I mean I think companies across the board, you got to continue to invest to make sure you can retain and attract that talent and some of that is going to be with your systems. You need to have clean processes and systems because especially with the AI coming, people are going to expect work to be more strategic and systems to manage some of the things that we've managed manually in Excel or other places over time.

I think so. One thing I'd all add to that Paul, is what I've noticed in the, in the mid market, in the small to mid market is a lot of these entrepreneurs, obviously the circles that they're, they live in is they know a lot of other entrepreneurs and I've had more than one owner come back and go, you know, my friend, my friend Paul, he could do this, I want us to do this. And, and you as an FPA person have to be go, have to be prepared to go. We can do that, just not with our current systems. We can do that. If we have this, are you ready to make that investment? And you also have to have sometimes those conversations with the owners to make those investments going. Your friend Paul's doing it right, but he's got a different tech stack just because he's doing something doesn't mean we can do it. Are you ready to invest? Because I can take you beyond that.

Yeah, great. Great point of helping realize, look, we can do that or we can even do more than that, but you're gonna have to be willing to invest. You're not doing it with today's system. Yeah, I've enjoyed that part of the conversation. I'm gonna move into where we kind of ask some standard questions. I'm gonna have a little fun. I have a couple additional questions I want to ask. And just get your take if you have to pick one or the other. So the first couple are, which would you pick if you had to pick one? So if I asked you if you had to do all your budgeting going forward, top down or bottom up, which one you doing bottom up. All right, which method would you use for your headcount planning? Would you do person level, role level, or just kind of at a. At a company level? How would you do. If you had to pick one method to do your headcount planning, what would be your choice?

I like roll level. So you can look at any additional headcounts that they may want or additional roles.

All right, and then rolling forecast, you're in charge. You can do it monthly, quarterly, semi, annually. You can go 6, 12, 18 months out. Which one would you pick?

Rolling 12.

Rolling 12. Got it.

Every month? Every month.

All right. And then what's your favorite finance software? What's that tool you can't live without?

Unfortunately for me, right now it's still Excel because of those different legacy systems. The only thing they all do well is export to Excel.

They say there's three buttons you have to have in every software. Okay, cancel and export to Excel.

Exactly.

You know, so it's really, it's amazing how ubiquitous the tool is. I love Excel, but there are, you know, there are times and places for other tools as well, and it's finding that right tool, tool stack. And then. Are you currently using generative AI in your work today?

No, as I said, our data is just not clean enough to be able to, you know, we have multiple facilities with the same names for things, but the data is actually different. So it leads to issues.

I can relate. Been there for sure. All right, so this next one, in your opinion, what's the number one technical skill for FP&A professionals to master?

So that, that for me is kind of where I alluded to earlier, which was. Is what I call the accounting, which is understanding all the underlying drivers of your business. And what those drivers are. And actually I talked to somebody yesterday, maybe it's a different word to use triggers. They use trigger. But whether it's a driver, a trigger, what those are in your business, that's the technical accounting skill that you need, is to understand all the drivers.

Now, kind of funny you said accounting because I think the first 10 or 11, 12 people I interviewed gave a different answer. The last two have been accounting. You and the person interviewed yesterday. Oh, well, it's kind of funny how it goes through something. You don't hear of anything and all of a sudden you hear a bunch of people say it, then you don't. Well, that's what I love is different answers. You know, I've heard Excel modeling and different things accounting. And so it's always interesting the different perspectives, how that changes a little bit. What's the number one softer human skill we need to master?

Communication again, being able to have the interpersonal skills to communicate with all the different areas of within your business to make them feel heard.

All right, one last one and then we'll move into the get to know you section. If you could wave a magic wand and change One thing about FP&A today, what would you change?

That's an interesting question. If I could wave a magic wand.

What I would do stumped you? I like it.

Yeah. I'm just trying to think of which aspect that I would. I would get remove. I think I don't have an easy answer for that one. I mean, right now I feel like it's so inner synced that it's hard to remove anything. I mean some things are more cumbersome than other things. Sometimes even just pulling data, if I go away a magic wand to say, you know, I don't have to pull data anymore, that I again, I can maybe use AI and just get it all. That would be it. But I don't know if there's anything in particular because it's such an inter, interwoven fabric.

I hear you and I, yeah, I've never asked someone that question before and I was like, ah, let's see what. Where he goes. And I figured it'd be something around data. But yeah, it's hard to say one thing because you think about it and well, it impacts this and it impacts that and what is it really one thing. So I, I totally get that.

I like the question though.

Good. Well, I'll have to ask it again. I think I might make it a more regular. I've been mixing them up a little bit lately, so Next section is called the get to know you section. This is where we ask some questions, get to know you a little bit better on the show. So the first one, what's your favorite hobby or passion? What do you do in your free time?

Major League Baseball. Long time Toronto Blue Jay fan, but just love the sport overall. Love the fact that we're in the American League east. So I can hate on Boston and the Yankees.

I'm a Dodgers fan, so I, I am not a big Yankees fan either. So we can hate on them together.

Excellent.

But I do get to hear about Toronto a lot since my training partner is there. Oh, yeah, Toronto. My Dodgers are better. At least right now, but I'll enjoy it while I can. Amazing what money will do, right?

Exactly.

If you had to recommend one book to our audience to read, what book would you recommend?

Atomic Habits. That book about creating small habits that eventually make big change in your life is kind of, you know, same thing with business. If you can get 1% better every month or every day or even every year over a certain percentage of time, it's grown exponentially. So I think atomic havoc and to apply to so many areas of your life, including your business life, your work life.

Got it. Yeah, I've heard that book recommended before and I know a lot of people love that book. So great one to share. If you could travel anywhere in the world tomorrow, where are you going?

Anywhere in the world, Anywhere. You know, if I'm traveling anywhere in the world tomorrow, it's with my wife, which means we're going to the Dominican Republic. She loves it there. I love it there. I love the people, but she loves the heat and the beaches.

There you go. Dominican Republic. You know, sometimes I should not even say the world. I'm waiting for somebody to say moon or Mars or something. All right. If you could have dinner with one person in the world today, who you taking to dinner?

That's another interesting question because there's a lot of interesting people. For me, somebody I've always wanted to have dinner with or coffee. Malcolm Gladwell.

He's a fascinating individual from all his.

Books from, you know, you have Tipping Point and Blink and what the Dog Saw. He has such an interesting perspective on so many things that I think, like he'd have an interesting perspective on how I cook a pot roast. Like, I think that would be entertaining.

I'll have to be a fly on the wall for that one. For your Malcolm Gladwell dinner, I had one person that said the the right answer and it's always the right Answer is my wife. And I just laugh. I go, you got to pick someone other than her. There you go.

I took her on the trip. We just did. We talked about there. Where do I want to go in the world? So I couldn't take her for this too.

So there you go. And. And I'm sure you'll take her to dinner on that trip. So we got it.

Yes.

So if you could offer advice to our audience, something they could do today, starting today, to be a better business partner, what would you tell them to do?

My big thing is understanding your audience. So even you've created something you're hoping will drive change in the business, how you deliver that is going to be different. That if you're talking to a board, if you're talking to the CEO or if you're talking to like unit directors. So understand your audience and to deliver your message to that audience, you're delivering the same message, but it doesn't mean you're delivering it the same way.

I really like that. Understand your audience. And with that I'm hearing, make sure you adjust your method for the audience. It's not enough just to understand them, but you need to craft that content to make sure you're meeting their needs.

Correct.

Alrighty. Well, I think that wraps it up. I've had a lot of fun, enjoyed chatting, got to ask some fun new questions on the cuff, and you were a good sport about it, so I appreciate that. If someone wants to get in touch with you or learn more about you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Yeah, two ways. I have a website which is called smoothaccounting CA for Canada. And if you want to look me up as Kenneth Lane on LinkedIn.

All right, great. We'll put those in the show notes, your website and your LinkedIn profile. But I appreciate you joining me today and just taking a few minutes to chat and you enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you, Ken.

Thank you, Paul. This was great.

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