The Influence Skills for FP&A Pros to Build Boardroom Trust Without the CFO Title with Wassia Kamon

The dynamics change when you're in the room and you're no longer the person helping, but you're the cfo. Every time you open your mouth, you are being assessed on what kind of business leader you are and is the company in good hands.

Wasia Kahman is the Chief Financial Officer of Access to Capital for entrepreneurs. With over 15 years of experience, she has worked across the manufacturing, technology, pharmaceutical and nonprofit sectors in various accounting and FP and A leadership roles. So I'm curious, when you first found out you were going to be a cfo, how did you feel? What was going on in your mind?

I was excited. I was like, yes, I always wanted to be a cfo. Yes, yes, yes. And then I was scared. Now at this new level, you have to do performance reviews of people who used to be your peers.

What do you think is the number one technical skill that FP&A professionals need to master?

You just have to understand how to model financial statement. You have to understand the full spectrum of financial modeling.

How do you see generative AI impacting FP and A moving forward? What's your thoughts on?

Oh my God, I was blown away. You have to be able to do the higher thinking stuff because AI is going to do everything else.

You've now been a cfo. Have any of your views or the way you see FP and a change and if so, how? This week's episode is brought to you by Corporate Finance Institute, cfi, the global leader in online corporate finance training and certifications. With CFI's FMVA program, you'll learn how to build three statement models, perform DCF and comparable valuation forecasting and presenting insights with clarity the exact skills you need to move your career forward. And right now you can get 30% off when you sign up. Visit corporatefinanceinstitute.com and thanks to CFI for sponsoring this episode. Hello everyone. Welcome to FPA Tomorrow where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, AKA the FPA Guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of fpa. Each week we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. This week we have a real treat for you as we're going to be joined by Wasia Kimon. Wasia, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me, Paul. Pleasure to be here.

Excited to have you. I think the last time we talked. I had a different podcast.

Yes.

So I'm glad we're able to do this. So give a little bit of background for our audience about Wasia and then we'll jump into this. So Wasia is the Chief Financial Officer of Access to Capital for Entrepreneurs ACE. With over 15 years of experience, she has worked across the manufacturing, technology, pharmaceutical and nonprofit sectors in various accounting and FPA leadership roles. She was twice recognized as under 40 honoree by CPA practice advisors. She is a keynote speaker whose insights have been featured in major publications such as the Wall Street Journal, Accounting Today, and Strategic Finance Magazine. She is also a guest faculty member for the Wharton Online FP and a Certificate program, the host of the popular podcast the Diary of cfo, and the creator of the Office of the CFO Boot Camp, a leadership development program designed to help high potential finance leaders transition into executive roles. So how do you find any spare time with all that in your bio?

I don't have time.

All right. I decided it wasn't just me. What does great FPA look like to you? We like to ask every guest this question to start the show.

Groot FBNA is when a business partner calls you when they're thinking about doing something and they want to have your viewpoint on it, your input on it. So you're not the one trying to catch up to what's going on in the business. But you're already top of mind to the decision makers. So you already have your inputs, you are able to do better forecast, adjust your forecast when you need to and you seen as somebody people want to work with versus somebody they have to work with.

I like that someone they want to work with versus someone they have to work with. Can you share an example from your career when you've seen great FP and A in action and what was the result of that?

Sure. So, oh, I will say when I was at Lyft and the Low Income Investment Fund, which is also a CDFI and it was there I was VP of Finance and Corporate controller. So I was overseeing both FPNA and accounting and we were trying to work the program team was trying to see what new programs should be out in terms of lending product, how can we better help the borrowers. And I was brought in early in some of those conversations. Now it took me about a year to get there to build that trust to the point of oh I see. I was thinking about X, Y, Z. Would you like to join the meeting? We sit at the brainstorming stage. So I was super grateful for Me was like, yes, you made it. They trust you and they invite you then because a lot of time the problem with both finance and accounting and organization, like we playing catch up with the rest of the business. Right. We either, it's either that we don't have the right tools. Right. Because we're still doing a lot of things manual. So we have to literally catch up. But it's also because we're not invited into the rooms where the decisions are being made when the brainstorming is happening. So we can say, hey, why don't you do it this way or that way? And that takes being intentional about how you're going to build those relationship, your reputation to be that business partner that they want to work with.

Thank you for sharing that example. And I like how you stated it took time, right. For you to be viewed as what you call great FP and a where they're putting you in the room before the decision is made versus where we've all been of, hey, here's the change we're making. Go put it in the budget. Yeah. Well, you do realize it's a bad idea, right? Oh, decision's already been made. Okay.

Deal with it. Yeah.

Which we've all, we've all experienced. So I think that's a great point about fpa. You have to be in the room. You have to have the trust of the partner to be able to do great fpa. And sometimes that takes time. You can't step into every role. You could be great at your job and step into a role and not be able to have influence, not do your job well because there's a lack of trust for whatever reason.

Yes. And it's not your title, mind you. My title was VP of Finance and Controller. So, you know, you will assume that. Yeah, I have a title. Oh, they're going to call me. They didn't call me. They didn't call my director of fbna. We were in the dark. And so it does take time to, to build those relationship.

And yeah, we didn't know anything about titles. I was only ever a director. Didn't get that CFO and VP and all those fancy titles like somebody I know.

But you know, people tend to assume because you are the person in charge of FPNA for this division or because your director or whatever. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. It comes down to the influence you have.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I 100% agree with you. Even though I was having a little bit of fun you know, you don't need a title to influence. You don't need a title to build trust, to build great relationships, to be good at your job. Often the best people don't have the title. Yes. We've all seen it. We've all seen analysts that are like, wow, they're great, and they're going places, and they make a real difference. Even though, okay, their title is analyst or senior analyst or, you know, whatever it might be, it really is about learning how to build the trust, influence, to guide decisions. And, you know, similar to your experience, I had a. A boss that one kind told me, you know, Paul, you don't have help, just report the P L. You help shape the P L. And I think in many ways, that's great. Fpa, when you know you're making a difference to the bottom line.

Yes.

You're not just a spreadsheet jockey or a report person.

Yes. Yes. Love it.

So, all right, you've been a CFO for eight months now about.

Yes.

First time. So I'm curious, when you first found out you were going to be a cfo, how did you feel? What was going on in your mind?

I was excited. I was like, yes. I always wanted to be a cfo. Yes, yes, yes. And then I was scared. Like, it went. It went like the whole time between me, transitioning was time of, yay. Oh, my God. Yay.

Oh, my God.

Like, I literally went through all these stages. So it's a great organization. It was the first time in my life that I was hired on the spot. So that was amazing, too. And I was like, okay, this is gonna work. It has to work because I'm in it now. But that was great for me to really step into a role I really wanted to step into. And it was also for those who have been following me on LinkedIn, I was talking about this. This. They were like, oh, what, you're CFO now? I'm like, you should have been listening. I've been telling you, this is how you do it. Now that I. Okay, let me tune in a little more. I'm like, huh? Huh? It's the same thing I've been saying for years. But, yeah, super grateful to be in this seat. I will say that there is a lot of things that I thought I knew, right, Because I have led both accounting function. I'm a cpa, so I technical accounting. I got this part, and I also led fp. And so I was like, yeah, I should be fine, but there's a lot of things you don't realize that go even beyond that. I know we often say, oh, it's beyond the numbers to the point where it's so cliche now to say it, but there's a lot of things you may not realize until you are in this.

So what's the biggest thing you realize? What surprised you in the seat that you're like, oh, I have to deal with this? Maybe something you didn't expect.

I think the number one thing that what I did expect, but not to be that difficult, was dealing with the board of directors. So in fpna, I was prepping the slides, right? Maybe I was presenting a few things during a board meeting, but when the dynamics change, when you in the room and you're no longer the person helping, but you're the cfo. So maybe the board members were not asking you tough questions because you were just in the room because you were helping your boss. Now you. It's like tag you it. And that's a different dynamic because it's not just preparing the slides. Every time you open your mouth, you are being assessed on what kind of financial leader, business leader you are, and is the company in good hands. So it does shift from, oh, if I have a nice slide, I have a nice story, it's going to run. It goes way beyond that. It's not just your storytelling now. What relationships do you know about the board? What are the things that this board member may likely ask? Or you can anticipate it, not even in your slide, but also in the notes of how you prepare yourself. What kind of conversations are you going to have before the meeting, after the meeting? How are you going to make them feel comfortable? That the company is in good hand is so important. So for me, dealing with the board was the biggest thing. I didn't expect some of the dynamics to shift the way they did because to me, I had been in the boardroom, I know what the size looked like. I should be fine. I did the model. There is more. The second thing I will say is around clarity. So people look up to you for clarity. When you yourself are looking for clarity, you're trying to figure things out. People are like, yeah, help me figure things out. So there is a lot of leading without a roadmap. I think being an FPNA helped me because you have to make some of those model predictions without having 90% of precise information. Go ahead. So it does help to know how you're going to navigate that uncertainty. But that is like 10x, maybe 100x when you get to to this Stage. So great learning experience so far. I'm enjoying it.

Good. I'm glad you're enjoying it. Want to kind of dive into two things you said. First with the board you mentioned. Right. They're assessing everything that comes out of your mouth. How do you make sure you're prepared to handle that? What did you do to make sure you're comfortable? In your first board meeting, you mentioned, hey, I've been in those. I know what goes on. But as we all know, once we experience it, there's a difference between preparing something and being responsible for everything. And I imagine that's what you had to learn. So how did you manage through that? Like, walk us through how you got comfortable to say, I feel like they're trusting me. They feel like I'm the right person in the seat. And what I'm saying is, is what they want to hear. How did you kind of work through that?

I think I just grateful to be surrounded with great people. So first, the founder gave me a update. So here's going on with the board. So I. I didn't ask the question because I didn't know to ask the question. But great pricks is so wise. She's like, let me tell you about our board and what to expect in this meeting. So that was very helpful. So after that conversation, I went to the CEO and I was like, okay, Shannon, that's his name, and Shannon is a he. I have to tell my. My and my kids. I'm like, shannon is a man. So Shannon is a coo, my best buddy, shout out. And I was like, okay, what's going on in this board? Like, what are the. What is the dynamic? How, like, what should I do to be prepared? I went to think. Thankfully, the former CFO did leave me some great documentation. His cell phone number. And so I was able to have those conversations to prep myself because I quickly realized after that conversation with the founder, was it, you can't just walk in there like, whatever. So. And then I was also able to ask some of the CFOs in my network. So I have good friends CFOs. And I was like, okay, how do you deal with the board? So maybe I haven't asked the question because I didn't know to ask how to really prepare for it. But being I'm still in contact with my. Some of my former bosses. So the minute I knew this was going to be a big deal, I just went straight into my network and it really helped me.

Yeah, it sounds that that's kind of what I Was. I think you covered what I was going to talk about a second one you said. Yeah. Hey, sometimes I'm looking for clarity, as everybody's coming to me for clarity. I'm guessing network is somewhere you can turn to at times for that, having people that have been a CFO before or, you know, maybe sometimes talking to CEO. But I would think when you're looking for clarity, how often is there someone you. You trust that you turn to and, hey, could you give me a little bit of advice here or. I'd love to get your thoughts of how you handle these type of situations. Do you find yourself doing that as a cfo? Yes.

Yes. So I'm part of the CFO leadership console. And there is like, almost like a. It's almost like a group chat. You get emails where you can ask questions and see what others are answering. So it does help. I joined it when I was a controller, actually. So it helps you see ahead of time what could be some concerns, you know, people have and how they're handling it, how other companies of different sizes, of different industries are handling certain things. I have an executive coach, my therapist, my network. But I. I think it comes down to also be vulnerable and be willing to say, I don't know, I'll get back to you, because you won't always have the answers. And yes, people are looking to you as you look for clarity, but as you are going through it, I let them know when I don't know.

So is being vulnerable something that came natural or how did you. How did you learn to be vulnerable? Cause I think that's something a lot of people struggle with. Sometimes we don't want to say, I don't know or I'm struggling with that just like you are. Give me some time to think about it and I'll come back to you. Versus, oh, I always want to appear as I'm all buttoned up and I have all the answers. So how did you learn to be vulnerable with your team and with the people you work with? So they know, hey, I'm struggling too. I'm human. Even though, yes, I'm in charge and I'm here to lead you, it doesn't mean I have all the answers.

It was in my first manager role, so I thought as a manager, I had to know everything. And in my first management role, half of my staff was twice my age. They had been with the company longer, and I was like, so it means that I even have to know more about my stuff. And half of them quit the work. Still had to be done. So I was there very late. I had to learn a lot of the leadership, managing people the hard way, because I didn't know. So a lot of time you promoted to leadership because of your technical skills. You're the person for that Excel file, you're the go to person for the system. You know the GL accounts by heart. I, I, I knew that. And you get promoted and it was for your technical skills. But now at this new level, you have to do performance reviews of people who used to be your peers. I wasn't ready for that. I had to fire someone that I was having lunch with when I was, when I wasn't the manager yet. Like there were so many things that I wasn't prepared for that I had to learn the hard way. And that's what a lot of my content on LinkedIn is always about, leadership. Because I feel like unfortunately a lot of us learn it the hard way and it shouldn't be that way because in that process, the people I manage at the time, I'm like the worst boss ever. The people I've managed now, they're like, oh, great boss. So I think that also brings a lot of the bad bosses. We don't know what to do with micromanaging and it creates so much havoc in companies. But there is that leadership transition gap in so many companies. In so many companies.

I, I agree. One of the things I was grateful for when I was at American Express is as soon as someone became what they called a people leader, you could be a manager that was a non people leader and an angler that was a people leader. Right. Big companies have alternatives for everything. But we were immediately, within those first few months, put through a leadership training program. And I still remember some stuff talking about situational leadership and held a match people. And I was really grateful they had that process because small companies, you don't get that. Most companies, even big companies, a lot of times you don't get that. And so I really appreciated that at American Express because you're right, right. You rarely do. You get promoted for your leadership skills. There are exceptions, but 90 plus percent of the time it's technical things you've done. It's because you're really good at your job. And so it's like, all right, let's, we want to reward them. And the reward is, oh, you now get to be a manager and have other people under you. And then you're, you're drowning because it's such a transition and you want everything to be done your way, at least I did.

Yeah.

And I remember more than one lesson, like, okay, step back, it doesn't matter.

Yes.

And I see you smiling. And so I think it's great that I know you do some training around executive and leadership and I think that's great because every company need something, whether it's the boss, whether it's some training programs, you know, a couple hours to just be given the promotion and then kind of be cut loose. It's you. It's easy to sink if you don't have the right resources. If you're ready to take your finance career to the next level, this is your moment. Corporate Finance Institute, or cfi, is the global leader in online corporate finance finance certifications. Their FMVA program is built for professionals who want to move beyond theory and master the skills top finance teams actually use. With fmva, you'll learn how to build robust three statement models, perform DCF and comparable valuation analysis, create accurate forecasts, and communicate your insights clearly using the same practical skills that top finance teams rely on to guide strategy and make better business decisions. Whether you're targeting a promotion, transitioning into FPA, or aiming to stand out in a competitive job market, these are the qualifications that hiring managers are actively looking for. Over 2 million professionals worldwide trust CFI to gain skills, earn promotions and advance their careers. And right now, you can do the same with 30% off any CFI plan. Visit corporate financeinstitute.com to start building the skills that get you noticed and get you hired.

Yes, absolutely. And I'm so glad to hear you don't have to go through it. Because we sometimes, I think the problem is we sometimes think we need a big elaborate program for that transition from individual contributor to people leader. But you don't need much. Just having the person aware of what could happen can set them up for success. Knowing where to go when they face X, Y, Z. That alone is helpful. A book you may have read. I love the Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Leantioni. So things like that. Just that. But you. We usually have like nothing. And that's the problem.

And so what do you do? I mean, obviously you've promoted some people, you've been in leadership positions. So what do you do when you're working with somebody that's going into a leadership position for the first time? What have you found? Helps them that you do care and.

Be thoughtful and be able to tell them my story and let them know that I understand that this is going to be hard and letting them know that I'M there for them. And of course, any resources I may have, I coach my people. I'm like. Because to me as a leader, I cannot do all the work. I need them to succeed. We have a vested interest in each other to succeed. So, oh, gosh. And I think it also helped because like you said, not everybody will admit that, oh, yeah, I messed up. At some point in my career, we all want to look so great. But I think you have to be vulnerable. You have to be authentic and open about the realities of leadership. Because leadership is hard. It is. But as long as you have the right tools and you're surrounding with the right people, it becomes easier. There's always some part that you know funky. But it gets better like this. And for me and the people that I've led throughout my career, after I learned what I learned has always been, as long as you care, you thoughtful, you are providing the resources. Even if the company doesn't have a formal program. I usually have a list of LinkedIn courses that I recommend. Watching around productivity, how you have your one on one. Because these are the small things that really make a difference because you get it and you like, you don't know what to say in your first one on one with a person. Okay, have a plan. Here's a potential agenda. You know, some of the things that, oh, this person is doing this. And it really opens a door so that as things are happening, we can have those conversations that can make sure you are really setting yourself up and the whole department for success. Because the last thing you want is people feeling like, okay, you promoted the wrong person. I'm going to leave. Of course people will always leave. But when you leave out of this grunt because you're disgruntled, it's not the same as you leave for. I have a better opportunity. And you know, something came up is because the way you will transition, your tasks are going to be different. How you train somebody else is going to be different if that experience was not good. And that's what I want to avoid because you cannot prevent people from leaving, but the way they leave that you can do something about and why.

A great point there of, you know, one, you can't control people leaving, nor do you want to. Right. You want people to get advanced and to find new opportunities and to be happy, but you want to make sure the reason they're leaving is not because they're disgruntled and they're gonna do a poor job changing the next person and you're gonna be dealing with that problem for weeks or months, potentially, because somebody was set up to fail. Usually that's kind of what it comes back to. Sometimes it's the person. We've all had some of those where you just have to cut your losses, so to speak, and move on. But often there. There's. There's reasons behind that, and often they weren't set up right. So I love that you spend all the time, hey, here's the resources, here's courses. And the one thing I love more than anything that you said is, first, I let them know that I care. But as a manager, I'm here for them. I'm here to support them. We can only be successful together. You're creating that shared interest. You're showing empathy. You're doing those things that when they have a problem, they'll come to you. And have you found that being the case that you have people coming to you a lot when they have problems and asking for advice?

Oh, yes, yes, yes. And I'm always open. I know it's hard. Like, you think about your calendar, all the things that you have, but it does mean a lot. Because really, I realize people don't ask for much if you just care and respect those two things. Care and respect. People don't ask for much. They don't. Employees don't ask for much if you just care and respect. Really, any peers you work with, it's care and respect. Because sometimes, you know, they can come with something that's difficult. But just you showing that you care, even if you only have two minutes, it's enough. Because they just told you, and you stop what you were doing to listen. Even if it's just two minutes, the care and respect is enough for them to go back and deal with the situation, resolve it, and come back to you. So I always try to make time for that, and they know it, and so they come to me for that.

Well, thank you for sharing that. I think there's some great lessons everybody can learn from your example. There is a leader. I'm going to shift gears a little bit away from your CFO experience. Few other things I'd love to cover. First, let's talk about your podcast. Yeah. The Diary of a cfo. Not. Not to be confused with the Diary of a CEO. That's also a podcast I've heard quite popular. How did you end up starting a podcast? How did that come about?

So when I started my role about eight months ago, I was like, okay, I'm gonna need content for LinkedIn. I'm gonna need to connect with other CFOs, because I realized I need more CFO spreading my network. And I looked at my, my phone, I was like, I don't have a lot of people that are cfo. So to create content and still meet with people, I'm like, I can do both in one podcast where I can go in and document my journey, invite other people. And now I have a good excuse when I slide into people dm like, hey, I have a podcast. Would that you come on? And it's really people I've been trying to talk to for years. I've been stalking them. One of them is William Washington. He's a CFO of a large company. And now I'm like, I have this podcast, you know, and I've been trying to get him to come. And now he's like, yes, I'm coming. But these are just great conversations I always wanted to have because I realized the power of a network and also the fact that now I have a guaranteed post for LinkedIn. We're just recapping my conversation. So it's, it's two things in one.

Yes, I totally understand the content. I have a ton of content now that I can use from all the conversations I have and network. I've met so many amazing people like you and I met through the podcast and so many others. It's a great, great way to build a network. But what do you hope the listeners get from it? I know you're getting a lot of benefit from it and that's fabulous. We all want to benefit. I know I get a ton of benefit from my podcast. How do you hope the listener takes away from your podcast?

The same thing I have been posting about on LinkedIn, learning from real experience. Like real people who went through real things, not just AI generated content that you can learn from. And for me, most importantly is realizing that finance leadership comes in all size shape. Scholars being able to understand that your career path doesn't have to be linear like you, you have to plan a B through z on day one. But listening to people, how they went from a B, 1, 2, then Z G, like you get to understand how this all can all come together to have a very fulfilling career. So same content has been always been about leadership development and again, trying to hear from more people because a lot of CFOs, a lot of other finance leaders don't have time to post on LinkedIn. So we are missing out on so much knowledge that I feel is untapped. And I'm so grateful for podcasts like yours for now, mine with the diary of the CFO that people can actually hear from all of those experiences.

Couldn't agree more. It is wonderful to have all these podcasts and resources today to learn from others. You think 20, 30 years ago, it was a lot harder, right? It was basically who you knew who you had in your phone, and that was it. Then the Internet came, it became a little easier, social media platforms, podcasts became bigger. Now it is so easy to connect with people around the world. It is amazing the opportunities you have available to learn from others that have great experiences and can teach you something. And you're right, most people choose not to post on LinkedIn either. They don't have time, they're not interested. They don't think they'll be good at it, whatever the reason is. But the reality is everybody has something to share.

Yeah.

And some of the guests that you think they think they have nothing to share end up being the best on the show. I can't teach you anything. And you're, like, taking note.

So good. It happened to me so many times. Like right now I'm trying to get one to come back, actually. Couple of them. And it's usually the one like, you said that, like, oh, I don't know, I haven't done it. It's my first time doing a podcast and I'm like, please come. They're so good.

Agreed. So podcast. Love it. I love the leadership focus. We may talk a little bit more on that, but I want to ask another question here. I'm curious. Over these eight months, as you've now been a cfo, have any of your views or the way you see FP&A changed? And if so, how?

I haven't seen. I don't have a different view of what FP&A is and should be. I think one of the things that I think it could be improved, though, is getting more business acumen and, you know, not staying too long behind the spreadsheet. So in my current role, I work a lot with operations, with lending operations, because I have to understand it. For everything else, who makes sense in this role, I'm raising capital. What does it mean? Why am I, like, if I go in front of the funder, okay, what is going to be my story? Not a spreadsheet. So all these things, you. You realize that if you, if, if you heard a lot of people say, yeah, it's beyond the numbers. Like, it's really beyond the numbers. Like, you do have to build those relationship and really understand the business so you can start connecting the dots so that when you hear something in the news, what does it mean for the company? You have to build that strategic mindset, that business acumen of, okay, so if, if I see this in the news, if I see this in the legislation, this is what is going to mean for us. What can we do about it now? How can we prepare for it for in the future? What needs to change now for the future? What needs to change now in the short term as well, to optimize our revenues and expenses. So all these things, you do have to be more in tune with the business. And that comes with you being intentional about getting away from your computer. I mean, if your remote stay at a computer, but getting away from your desk, accounting desk, I should say finance desk, and talk to other people.

I, I know what you mean. Get outside yourself, whether you're remote in an office, learn the business, spend time with them. You're seeing more and more just how important that is as you, I guess as you move up the ladder of just that business acumen and really being able to have those conversations with operations and whoever it may be and something you talked about. There is uncertainty. And we know right now there's been a lot of uncertainty. Right. There's a lot of political things going on, tariffs, different type of things, and kind of been going back and forth. You know, a lot of government changes in the US I know your company's in Georgia. How do you manage all that uncertainty? How are you making sure you're putting your company in a position to be successful when you don't know what's coming tomorrow? You know, things are changing a lot. So how have you been managing that as a CFO and making sure, you know, financially you're prepared for just the uncertainty and changes we're seeing right now? Because they seem pretty rapid to me.

Oh, yes, very rapid. I will say first, one thing that helped me even before stepping into this role is that I led the session for the Wharton FP and a program and was on navigating change and uncertainty. And I'd spoken to that at a CFO conference for the AICPA and April of that year. So the conference was in April, Warden online was in August. And that's also at the. Later that month, I became a cfo. And what it allowed me to do was studying uncertainty. And so there is a. There is a matrix called the Ramsdale Matrix and walks you through the known knowns, the unknown, unknown. And basically it's a metric that says, what are the Things that you know and what are the things that you don't know and what can you do about it? So for example, we hear about tariffs, okay, this is outside of my realm. What are the things that I know? It could be from history, right? I know that prices may increase, okay, I'm a small business lender. What is it going to mean? Because even in uncertainty, something are more certain than others. For example, I know for a fact that if there is more inflation prices going up, that discretionary income will come down, which means the businesses that depends on people's extra money, spare money will suffer more. So think about your restaurant or things like that. But the businesses that are based on people needs will still thrive. Your grocery store, your daycare, you still have to put your kids somewhere, but also your dentist. Like there are certain industries that are, even in those in that environment are more certain than others. So how do you do? And I'm going to speak from the perspective here, being the CFO of the lending institution is okay, so go back to your portfolio and analyze how much of the current people in your portfolio are are discretionary based or non discretionary based. What is the likelihood that they will be more impacted than others? So that could help you see in your current portfolio. What should you expect then as you're looking toward new businesses, new borrowers that may come to you. How should you change your credit policy? Or maybe ask more questions question in that initial intake like how much of your retail merchandise come from X place? Maybe questions you didn't have before that you may think about having because again you are able to connect the dot. Yes, there is uncertainty, but remember there are certain things are more certain than others even in that environment. And what can you do about it? Because you cannot change the whole world, but you can definitely control certain things, do certain things to optimize your business. And that's really what it comes down to.

FP and a guy here. And if you're like me, you hate sitting through sales demos where a salesman pressures you to buy the tool promises you the world. Well, in order to make this easier, what I've done is I've created the 2025 FD FPA Tools Showcase. You might be wondering what that is. Well, that's where you can come and see some of the best platforms in FPA software, share how they think about FPA without having to be one on one with the salesman. You get to listen to them talk about and demo their software, ask questions and see them against their competitors. On May 22, 2025 this event is free for you where you'll see several of the top FP and A tools and even a go to market tool share how they think about FP and a See the show notes to register for this event for free and I'll see you on May 22nd. Thanks. Great point. There's always things you can control and there's always knowns. I mean some people say, well, we can't plan for a Black Swan event. You can plan that one's going to happen. You can look at historically and say what are the type of things I should be prepared to do if one comes? You may not know what's going to cause it, you may not know exactly how it's going to work, therefore you can't be fully prepared. But the fact that you've at least thought about what you're going to do, you've talked about the knowns kind of getting into scenario planning as well a little bit here. You're much better prepared for when it happens. Even though you may throw out a lot of the things that you thought you were going to do. And I imagine you've seen that again. Again, even if you plan for some uncertainty, when it actually comes, you're like, oh wow, that was quite different than I expected. This helped, but I'll do these five things differently. But you at least have that thought process and you've prepared yourself versus well, it's unknown, it's uncertain. I'll deal with it when it comes.

Yeah, you can do that.

You're saying that's a bad idea to just wing it?

Yes. You can't. Yes.

Love it. All right, so we're going to move into. We have two more sections left. One is what kind of the FP and A section. And this is where I ask some standard questions. I guess we have three or four questions here we're going to ask. So the first one is what do you think is the number one technical skill that FPA professionals need to master financial modeling?

Technical skills? Yes. I don't care what the system, the software you're using Excel, you just have to understand how to model financial state, how you hear again, connecting the dot. How you hear. Okay, if I change something in this revenue, what is going to happen all the way from your expenses, from your cost to your balance sheet to your cash flow statement, you have to understand the full spectrum of financial modeling.

All right, Love it. And how many people in finance you think understand that? You think that's a skill that a lot of people struggle with? Curious your take?

I don't know, I actually never thought about it. Maybe 50. 50 maybe.

It's surprising, right? Like how often have you had to restart over on a model?

Oh God.

You inherit a new job, right. And that comes down to design. So I think even though we all do modeling, it's something we all struggle with and some of it is just hard, some of it is goes back to training. Just like leadership. First time you're a manager. It's interesting. I, I agree. Financial modeling has to be near the top of the list. You know, I get a lot of different answers and that's one that is very common because we have to be able to model for sure. What about soft skill or human skills?

Some people like to call it relationship building. You have to be able to build relationships and unlike what most people think is not, being an extrovert won't make it better. I think introverts actually best at it because they on one, on one they're like, oh yeah, I got this compared to extroverts, right? Because they're like, yeah, we'll talk anyway. But I think that regardless you have to be good at building relationships and building effective relationships. So it's not sending a like on LinkedIn or Hey, hi. Like it's actually understanding who's across from you is also having emotional awareness to understand the things that triggers you. So you're not just gonna run over the minute that says something you don't like. So it takes a lot. But I think building relationship anything in that umbrella is like the number one thing because without them, like we talked about earlier, you can't really do a good job. I mean your forecast will be bad the day goes out. Well, sometimes it does, even without, without you doing it. But at least you will have buy in. At least you will have the buy in and that goes a long way.

Without a doubt, having the buy in of your business partners makes a big difference. All right, so the next one we have, how do you see generative AI impacting FP and a moving forward. What's your thoughts?

Oh gosh, I, I saw a demo of Data Rails AI, I saw a demo of Vena. I've been looking at different demo because I've been shopping for FPNA software myself and oh my God, I was blown away. And I do encourage anybody just go watch what's going on right now. What is possible within FPNA software, within accounting systems, even ERPs and so on. For me it comes down to you have to be able to do the higher thinking stuff because AI is going to do everything else. We talk about financial modeling, it can do it okay, but it won't know what are the variables that should be weighted more than others. So can give you a first good draft. But you need that business acumen, problem solving, strategic thinking to make that first draft better. But it will definitely increase the capacity of what we able to do in fba because there is a lot of copy pasting in places you don't need to duplicating work that's not needed. I think you'll be able to, you know, automate that for sure. And then it's those other things that you will really need to really elevate the first draft. They will give you and or question it. Just questioning it.

Got it. Well, I think I'll reach out to Vena and Data Rails to sponsor the. Yeah.

Yes, they should.

I'm going exploring the different tools and liking what you're seeing. It's. It's amazing to see how quickly AI is developing. And like you said, it's going to do a lot of things for us. We need to be able to make sure we can take it and add the assumptions, the human side, the judgment, all those things that go with what AI can do. Right. We're coming up on one of our last sections, get to know you. This is where I get to ask some personal questions.

Oh, okay.

How uncomfortable can I make? No, I'm kidding. So I know you have a ton of free time, so what's the. That hobby or passion you're doing that you have with all your free time.

Cooking food, anything around food. Like it keeps me nice and padded and grounded. I love different kind of food. So I'm a foodie. I like trying different food. I'll be the one seeing a recipe or going to a restaurant and seeing, okay, I need to replicate this at home. So I've done Jamaican food, Indian food. Like, you name it, I've done it. Because nobody else in the, in the family here cooks like they're only in the kitchen to grab something to eat. And so I feel like I have the kitchen to myself and I'm able to create, to do things to think through. So I do enjoy cooking. I know a good thing next week will be fitness, but I'm not there yet. But food is like number one.

What's your favorite recipe or favorite thing you like to cook?

Oh, okay. I like to make something from my home country, Ivory Coast. It's called Atke and Fish. So it's like A couscous of cassava with fried fish. And then I also fry plantains on the side. The ripe plantains. You have to pick the right plantains. Okay. When they almost look like they're going to go bad, that's when they're the best. Plantains. Deep fried with a deep fried chicken. Oh, yeah. That doesn't sound good. But you do have some vegetables on top. Some like, it looks like a.

So you're in the south, living in the south now because you said deep fried a few times in there.

Yes, yes. I, you know, and that's the thing, too. I, I left West Africa to come to Georgia. So. Ooh, can you imagine?

I don't know if you've ever had abalone, but it's a fish. They have to pry it off the ocean. So you, you free dive for it and it's in a clam and you pull it off and has to be pounded and cut, you know, tenderized. And I've had it deep fried. And after I watch the whole process, I helped with it where, you know, they're tenderizing it and cutting it and deep frying. And I'll go at that point. I think leather would taste good after you did all that to it.

Though. Have you tried fried turkey? I have not in my life. I'm telling you, you need to try fried turkey would change your life. Okay.

Interest me, but maybe I'll give it a try just for you.

Thank you. Thank you. You'll thank me later.

All right, we've covered food. We got that passion out of la. I can see this smile. And you, you came alive. I should have started with food.

You should have.

I'll remember that for next time. The third time we do this.

Yes. We'll start with food.

All right, this. I'm curious to see what you have to say here. If you could have the job of any one person or any job in the world for a week, what are you going to do?

I'll be a food tester. I'll be a food critic. So either on the Food Channel, I have a few shows I want to be a critic on. Or just go and be like the people that go in and they tell you what's going on. Yes. It will be around food, too. Yes.

Food reviews, food critic.

Yes.

You start a blog on that. Who needs leadership?

That would definitely be it.

I'm looking for your food website next in your spare.

Thank you. No pressure.

I will subscribe.

Thank you.

Last get to know you question. Do you have a favorite movie that.

You like, it's a kids show. It's called Boss Baby. It was. It's on Netflix. It was a movie, actually, a couple years ago. And. Yes. And Boss Baby, as a family, we still watch a few episodes of Boss Baby, everything almost every week. And it's funny, like, once you have small kids, my TV time, when I get a chance to watch Netflix, which is very rarely now. Like, I could watch some Netflix at some point. Now, it's. It's just watching Boss Baby when the kids are watching it. That's it.

Got it. All right, so Boss Baby for everybody. There's Wasia's recommendation. Check it out on Netflix. We're. We're an advertising show here.

Thank you. I should have thought about that.