Why Law Firm Revenue & Cash Flow Forecasting Is a Nightmare (and How to Solve It) with Sean Mooney

Any financial modeler must know that quote. It's so true and I think about it all the time that you don't try and get too stuck into the tiny details because if you get 80% of the way there. Sean Mooney is a senior financial consultant.

Specializing in automated financial modeling for professional services businesses. With over 12 years of executive finance experience across UK and Australian markets, he has built numerous financial models and secured millions in funding for clients. Tell me about that worst model you ever seen.

I was building the fan kind of model. Yeah. And I tried to add my value into that model and it ended up being an absolute mess. No one really knew the full picture how you go through that process, particularly law firms. I find that the revenue is the main differentiator to other what's the charge out rate, what is their normally accrued WIP per week or per month and what's their normal average recovery rate on that whip?

Any other advice you give? Just if you were thinking back when you started building these type of models.

Looking back and checking your work, thinking is this as efficient or as useful as it can be? Because.

Welcome to Financial Modelers Corner where we discuss the art and science of financial modeling with your host Paul Barnhurst. Financial Modelers Corner is sponsored by Financial Modeling Institute. Welcome to Financial Modeler's Corner. I am your host Paul Barmhurst, AKA the FP and a guy. This is a podcast where we talk all about the science and art of financial modeling with distinguished financial modelers from around the globe. The Financial Modelers Corner podcast is brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. FMI offers the most respected accreditations in financial modeling and that's why I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler and I would encourage you to do the same. I'm thrilled to welcome on the show this week Sean Mooney. Sean, welcome to Financial Modeler's Corner.

Hello Paul. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Yeah, glad to have you. So let me give a little bit about Sean and then we'll jump into the questions. Sean is a senior financial consultant specializing in automated financial modeling for professional services professional businesses. With over 12 years of executive finance experience across UK and Australian markets, Sean has built numerous financial models and secured millions in funding for clients. As founder of SJ Finance, he transforms complex financial data into actionable insights, reducing reporting time by up to 75% through innovative Excel automation and and power query implementation. Sean's expertise spans PE backed environments, multi entity organizations and complex M and A transactions. How did it feel to have somebody read it to you?

Yeah, really, really good. I'm really well read as well, Paul.

Thank you. It's always weird to me when I hear someone read it. I'm like, are those the things I've done? Yeah, it's kind of fun. Tell me about that worst model you ever seen. You knew this question was coming. I know. You have a horror story.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm going to have to throw myself under the bus, I think, because I think when I. When I look back to my early career and look at some of the work I've done, I think that is shocking, you know, And I think back to a law firm I was working in and it was very early days and I was building the first kind of model out, but it was a. A bit of a Frankenstein model, which I know is a term that you like to use, and other people had added their bits into the model. I was coming into it to take over the model and adding to it. And I think now, with my experience, I would have been saying, clean slate, let's get some good practices in. But I didn't. I was. I was, you know, I was too junior and I tried to add my value into that model and it ended up being an absolute mess. No one really knew the full picture. So, yeah, I've got to throw myself in there. My own model is one of the worst I've ever seen.

You know, I think if we're honest, all of us have one that's probably one of the worst they've seen. I have plenty where I'm like, that thing was awful. What was I thinking? Right?

Totally. I think it is. And I do think that is how you get better at it, is getting in there and doing it. And I think looking back at your work and going, I never would have done that now. I wouldn't have used that technique. I would have done this. And as well. Things change, obviously, particularly over the past 10 years. If you think how Excel has changed and Power Query becoming much more mainstream, when you look back and you think, well, we never would have done that. Well, I probably didn't even know some of these tools or functionalities existed then.

Yeah, sometimes you don't know what you don't know. And also you mentioned, if you look at the last 15 years, 10 years, Excel is a very different tool today than it was. I mean, you got Power Query, power, Pivot, Lambda, dynamic arrays, Office scripts, Python, you know, group by pivot, by waterfall, charts, and the list goes, checkboxes. There's so many things that completely can change the way you Work in Excel, the let function. I mean, I could probably spend 20 minutes just going through, you know, so many changes that we didn't have.

Yeah, I totally agree and which is great.

I love it. I mean it's, it's fun. It's hard for somebody that just uses Excel during the day and it doesn't have time or any interest in learning all the new stuff to keep up.

I would say so, yeah, I think if you're a bit of a passive user and maybe use it for a very small part of your job. Yeah, I can't see how you really get stuck into that detail. I think one, because I'm building models, but two, because I genuinely just quite like Excel. I think it's quite cool to go and see what other people are doing. I think being in, you know, the environment in LinkedIn where you follow a lot of people who are MVPs and they talk about the latest releases and things like that, that makes me want to go, I'm going to go and try that and use it in a model or try and incorporate that into my processes. You know, the FP and a hub community, things like that, people talking about what they do. So yeah, almost increasing the gap between a kind of a standard Excel user and a more modern Excel user.

Yeah, I agree. It's definitely, it's widening and over time more and more people adopt. I think that's always been a challenge with it, with Excel, but you know, kind of moving past that a little bit. I'd love to talk more about you. So you started your career as an accountant, you moved toward modeling. What interested you in modeling? What kind of made you say, hey, you know, just accounting by itself isn't really where I want to be. I want to get more into modeling and other things.

Yeah. So I did enjoy my career and I finished as a, a group finance director for a law firm in UK and a law firm in Australia. And it's quite a broad role when you're in that kind of finance director position. But one part of my job was the model for the group. So a model for each individual entity and then a consolidation model for the, for the full picture. And going through that process, my model became like my right hand man. You know, every, every question that I got, I would be, let me see what the model says and you know, plug in some, some variables and see what it looks like. And I would use the model to present to the board as well in our monthly board meetings. I'd be saying, here's what the model looks like. And this is what it looks like for the next month, next quarter. And I really enjoyed that element of the role of using our data to build out a really reliable forecast and then talk about it with the business leaders and some sort of overdraft cash facility, whatever it may be, that gives you that cash. So yeah, that's one of the first conversations I have is where are we trying to get to and why do we need a model to see that? And that allows me then to input the various scenarios and say, well, this is what it might look like, but here's another option that you may not have thought about yet.

You know, I'm curious, how often do you find a customer go hey, these other options make more sense. Like you feel like you kind of guided them in a different direction than they never thought of. Is that pretty common? Or what they first come to you is often where they end up.

I think it depends on the maturity of the business. So if there is a much younger, smaller business, I think they can be very easily influenced in terms of what direction they're going for a more mature business. Sometimes they kind of, they have the plan and the strategy. I'm just there to help with the model, you know, and I'm not really influencing the strategy of the business because they're so, you know, they're much bigger than kind of needing that kind of advice. So yeah, the majority of the business drives whether they will consider different options.

Which I could see. They, some of them have a very built out strategy. They spent a lot of time, they've thought about it and they're just coming you for a transaction. Build me a model where others really need the advice. So it's almost kind of like it's two different clients in some ways. Even though they both get a model, there's one that's much more strategic, conversation focused. There's some that I'm sure just a little more, hey, here's everything and build it.

Yeah, yeah, totally. And you know, you could almost.

Which you prefer the two.

I probably prefer the bigger clients who kind of know the plan because it reduces the, the kind of guesswork involved, I suppose. Obviously, you know, not. No model is perfect in terms of crystal ball in the future. But I think if you have a much more direct brief of this is what we want you to model, you can get to that result a lot quicker. So I probably prefer that end. And they normally have a lot more money to pay the bills as well. So that helps.

There is something to be said for that, for Sure, I, I can relate to that one. When you said like, no model is perfect, it, it reminds me one of my favorite quotes by George Box. All models are wrong, some are useful.

Well, that's exactly what I was thinking when I said it. Yeah. You know, I think that's such a, Any financial modeler must know that quote, you know, and I think it's so true and I think about it all the time that, you know, don't try and get too stuck into the tiny details because if you get 80% of the way there, you're probably close enough, you know.

Yeah, there's a lot of truth to that. I had a manager and it was early in my career. It's before I even switched to finance. I was working in procurement, but I also worked in our systems office and she goes for most of the stuff we want. If I can get the data to 80%, because we had terrible data, there were some real problems with the way it was designed. Like if I can be at least 80% right, that's generally enough to guide me to make a decision to go in the right direction, you know. Yes, there are times you need 90, 95, but nobody needs 100% for almost any decision.

No, particularly when you're looking at maybe a three or five year model, you know, everyone knows that when you're predicting that revenue in year five, so much is going to change between now and then that you can't get bogged down worrying about whether it's 100% accurate, you know.

Well, yeah, like I say, if you can forecast that well, you and I are going to Vegas.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, so I totally get it. So you model a lot of service businesses. You had worked for a law firm. And I know you know, service businesses are obviously different than SaaS or product. So where I'd like to start is I think one of the key things in a service business is really kind of building out that revenue schedule, figuring out the model and the clients. So maybe talk a little bit of how you go through that process, what you, what you go through to build out that schedule.

Yeah, totally. I think you're right that particularly law firms, I find that the revenue is the main differentiator to other firms. So you're totally right there. With a law firm, you're selling time for money and generally what you'll see is you've got different grades of lawyer or solicitor in the UK and you're building up wipes, work in progress. And I always think of it almost as a pre revenue calculation. So you're calculating the chargeable hours that a solicitor can charge. What's their general recovery rate on their whip because they're never going to recover 100% of it. What's their general recovery rate on their whip because they're never going to recover 100% of it. So tracking that time, the recoverability rate of that wip, so tracking that time, the recoverability rate of that WIP and then it becoming revenue and going then into your normal debtors and receivables process there. So I think by making sure you're breaking it down into the key areas of what's the charge out rate, what is their normally accrued WIP per week or per month and what's their normal or average recovery rate on that wip? Because when it comes to analyzing that revenue, being able to say, well we got enough WIP on the book, but actually we only got a 75% recovery rate as opposed to our 80% recovery rate and identifying that, that's where the variance was. So for me it's a full WIP schedule that feeds into the revenue schedule.

Yeah, makes sense. That leads me to a couple questions. What's the kind of typical delay between when they do the hours and they recognize the revenue? Is it at the end of the project or some of them monthly? What do you typically see in the industry there?

Yeah, great question. And it does vary a lot. So I have done a lot of work with personal injury law firms in the UK and you can have cases that are worth £5,000 and you can have cases that are Worth £500,000, you know, and that value is going to determine your time scale as well. So the low value that could make take maybe 12 to 18 months higher value, you're looking three to five years for that to come in. So that's why the WIP becomes so important in a lawfare model. Because it's not on a monthly or quarterly basis. It's, it's certainly going to span the end of your financial year end and it possibly going to span into two or three financial years. So having an accurate WIP balance on your, on your books is a really key driver for a law firm. So yeah, it's great that you've picked up on that because that time scale is huge. So you need to be able to track something in that wip.

Makes sense. And so I would imagine you could have some pretty lumpy revenue recognition. You know, a big huge personal injury case where you're not taking anything until they win. I mean see I've seen some law firms that do that. You don't pay anything if we don't, you know, get you something. And so you have a big huge settlement at the end of millions of dollars, you're going to recognize that all at the end. And you may have worked on it for three or five years. So I could imagine you could have some really big swings and variances month to month, quarter to quarter, even potentially year to year. Is that what you see a lot?

100% that is exactly what you see. And, and again it comes back to this WIP schedule because you'll have for your live caseload, you're going to have an estimated value for those individual cases and an estimated timescale. So if you know that your 50,000 pound cases take three years to settle, you're going to be plotting out those live cases to settle at those points in time in the future and turning that whip into revenue and then that revenue becoming cash, maybe 60 or 90 days possibly after that. So for the live caseload, I think having that really detailed line by line of where do we think in this sliding scale of value and time, where is this individual case going to land? And then for future cases, newly incepted cases, I think looking at of our intake of cases, what's our normal split between low value, mid high and applying that then on new cases that are coming in. And I could really get stuck into the detail here, which I won't for the purpose of the podcast, but you know, using your prehistoric data and where did it come from and things like that to really nail down where do we think these new cases are going to land in this forecast? You know, and it's really interesting. I really enjoy building out those really detailed forecasts, you know, FP and a guy here.

And as you know I am very passionate about financial modeling and the Financial Modeling Institute's mission. I have been a huge fan of the FMI for years and I was super excited when they decided to sponsor the Financial Modelers Corner. I recently completed the Advanced Financial Modeler certification and love the entire experience. It was top notch from start to finish. I am a better modeler today for having completed the certification. I strongly believe every modeler needs to demonstrate they are a qualified financial modeler and one of the best ways to do that is through the FMI's program earning the accreditation will demonstrate to your client, current and future employers that you are serious about financial modeling. What are you waiting for? Visit www.fminstitute.com podcast and use code PODCAST to save 15% when you enroll in an accreditation today.

So yeah, and it feels like a few things if you're building that up by cases. Obviously time is huge. Value assumption is big because it's range, you're not going to know exactly what it's going to be. And two, recovery rate because I'm sure a few percentage points can make a big difference, especially on large value deals. Small value, not as much unless you're doing a ton, unless you have a lot of volume there. But yeah, so I could see where it's really that revenue schedule because I would imagine the expense. Right. Almost all those lawyers are full time. It's just their salary. Yeah. You hire somebody new, you add some software. But expenses aren't going to vary a ton.

Correct.

But expenses can be really high. One month revenue could be low. You got some real. Got to monitor cash really closely because it's a long time till you collect the cash in many cases, 100%.

That. That's. That's exactly right. And I think that's why you find a lot of law firms, particularly in the UK, not 100% certain on, on the rest of the world. But in the UK you find that there'll be an, of a debt facility within the law firm because they're carrying that burden of the staff costs and everything we just spoke about there for such a long period of time that you need a funder who's got deep pockets who can say, well, yeah, don't worry, we'll sit and wait out with you and we'll get the cash at the back end. And that brings that complexity into the model of plotting out this revenue and the cash recovery off it. But managing your cash balance and your debt facilities alongside it because obviously it's a, it's that big jigsaw puzzle of how does this all work and how do we make sure we can, you know, pay the bills at the end of the month and that kind of thing. But you know, it's really interesting. I love solving those problems.

Yeah, it sounds like definitely a lot on, you know, debt facility Revolver making sure that, okay, what's the minimum cash we need and how much is that going to cost us in interest? And it's just that's part of a cost of doing business. There's. Because you have such a long lead time like other businesses. Right. There's, there's lots of. You think of the big one. I think of that's a super long lead time is selling airplanes. You gotta spend all that money to build that airplane.

Yeah.

You gotta have a huge debt facility and then you start recovering a ton of cash as people pay you for all of them. I mean, you might get some upfront, there's, you know, pre ordering and all that, but I guarantee they spend more on that development of a new plane than they get for at least a few years.

100. Yeah, definitely.

Or drugs is the other example. Right. You spend a ton on drug development. So always interesting to me that that was kind of models, because I haven't dealt with that a lot. So I think it's kind of fascinating when people talk about those. All right, we're going to talk about one of your favorite tools. Any guesses? Excel has something to do with Excel, but a little more specific.

Power Query.

There we go. So when we were coming up with questions, one thing you mentioned is you'd want to talk about Power Query. That's sign number three that I know you're a nerd, so you're hitting all the boxes today. Talk to our audience. Why are you such a big advocate of one of my favorite tools, Power Query?

Yeah, so it's a tool I use every day, I think. For me, I remember back in the early days of life, before Power Query, before I knew what it was or how to use it. I have memories of these processes of exporting CSV templates from various systems. You save them in folders, you have to go in and delete column K before it goes into this other system, and all this messy data manipulation from multiple sources. And then Power Query is just this solution that solves everything. So I really enjoy that. You can link it into your systems, your accountant system, your operational data systems, payroll, whatever it may be. Do all of your transformations within Power Query and it'll spit out these neat and tidy tables that the work is done. I'm never a fan of having to repeat a process. If there's a way that I can automate it, I'll find a way to automate it, because I. I don't want to have to go through that brain work again of how do I do this problem that I've already solved once. So Power Query allows you to save those steps in there and you can see exactly what you've done. If you're going to go in and change a step, you can change those individual steps on that one individual source and fix your process. It's well documented. It gives you a nice tidy table. You can refresh your data with a click of a button. It's just, it's brilliant and I think certainly for a reporting person, if you're management accountant or a finance director, someone who needs to produce reports regularly. Power Query needs to be in your toolbox and you need to be using all the time because the time saving is huge.

That's what I was just going to ask. How much time does this Power Query save you?

Oh, well, I often quote that, that figure of a 75% time saving just because I think there's still an element of going in and checking your numbers and checking your report in. But I easily say 75% time reduction because it's, it's so good.

Nothing better than seeing somebody take a process that was taking them hours and it's a couple of minutes. It's just like. That is awesome.

Hundred percent.

Yeah, that is it. That is a great one. So we've covered Power Query, we've covered kind of revenue schedules. Back to revenue schedules for one second. There's one other question I wanted to ask. You know, let's say somebody's listening and they have not built, you know, a revenue schedule. Maybe they're working with the law firm or some kind of professional services that has a similar type thing. What advice would you add them? Maybe like things to watch out for or kind of how to start to get comfortable, you know, building that type of revenue schedule. Obviously WIP is critical, but any, any other advice you give, just if you were thinking back and advice you wish someone had given you when you started building these type of models.

Yeah, yeah, totally. It probably comes back to those timescales involved. So when you think about WIP schedules, you know, the whip schedules that I've built in the past have probably been handed on to other people or been inherited from other people. Certainly the caseloads will have been inherited from other people. And if you think about the risks involved there of is this wipe good whip. Because you know, the worst outcome is that you're reporting that you have this whip on your balance sheet and it's actually, it's not good whip. The case has already failed. There's something wrong with it. The valuation of that individual case has been massively reduced. So I think having some really good controls that you haven't got a black hole in in your whip schedule of just whip going in there and it's just, it's stagnating in your whip balance and it's never ever going to become revenue and cash further down the line. So a good trick that I always used to do was to take out any new cases and any new revenue Pretend the law firm stopped today and make sure that throughout the rest of your forecast that the WIP completely unwinds and the revenue completely unwinds back to zero at the end of the timescales so that you know that everything that's going into that scale schedule eventually comes out of it. Because the worst thing is to say is this black hole of stagnated whip that has no value in the real world. So, yeah, that's, that's a key one.

As I heard it there, quality of inputs, matter. And don't leave a black hole on your balance sheet, in this case, whip.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I kind of, as I listen to that, those are made. Think of, of all the horror stories of, you know, balance sheet surprises.

Yeah, yeah.

All right, so now we're gonna ask you some of our more standard questions that we ask guests. First one, what's your favorite Excel shortcut?

I think my favorite is control left square bracket to jump to the source of the formula. It's probably not the one I use most is F2. Just looking at what, what is this formula actually telling me, you know, but control left square bracket. I love jumping to find the source of the information.

Yeah, that's a great one. And a lot of people like to do that. And F5, you know, so those are, those are good combinations. F2 is a very common one. So, yeah, love it. All right, as you look back over your career, what's the one lesson you've learned that's helped you the most?

I think it is the. The power query lesson, you know, and that time saving. But I suppose to get outside the power query, because we have already discussed it, I think looking back and checking your work, we were speaking earlier about how you learn lessons and how if we went and looked back at some of our work from 10 years ago now, Paul, I'm sure you'd agree you'd find some things, you'd say, I'd never do that nowadays. So I think constantly revisiting your work and thinking, is this as efficient or as useful as it can be? Because things change and you can always update it and learn from it. So I think having the ability to go and question yourself of can I make that a bit better? I think is a great lesson.

Agreed. I think that is a really good lesson. So thank you for sharing that one. All right, what's the most unique, kind of funniest, fun thing you've ever built a model for in your personal life or used a spreadsheet for?

Yeah, so if you're aware of Oasis in the UK and they are doing the comeback tour in June, July this year. And over here in the uk, there was a mad rush to buy Oasis tickets.

Sure.

Me and all of my friends, basically everyone we knew, everyone was on the laptops on the mobile phones trying to get these Oasis tickets.

Sure.

So I was on laptop with Oasis on one screen and it gave you a countdown of count of your position in the queue. You were 160,000 in the queue to get through to tickets. And on my other screen I had an Excel spreadsheet with a power query pulling data from the URL source of the countdown clock and a timestamp. So I would timestamp with like control shift and semicolon to timestamp and then it would pull in what the position I was in the queue, how much the queue had gone down since the last timestamp and then work out based on the time since the last timestamp and the reduction the queue, how long I've got left in the queue and how quick the queue was moving down. And I had it producing graphs on the screen and I was like taking screenshots of the graphs. I'm like putting it into the WhatsApp group of all the lads of like, based on my estimations, I think I've got five more hours in the queue, you know, but that is a really, really nerdy.

Now, did you take video? Did you record all this? This could be a great YouTube video.

I think I'll still. I'll still have the spreadsheet somewhere. Saved as Oasis countdown clock or something in my. In my folder.

Oh, you're welcome to share that. We could always put it in the show notes. That could be fun. I love that. That's a great one. Did you get the tickets, though?

I did got. I've got it.

That's the most important thing. And it. Was it a good concert?

Well, It's. It's on the 19th of July.

Oh, it comes up this summer. Got it.

Well, yeah.

Check back in to let us know how the concert is. Hopefully it was worth all the wait. I know it should be. That should be a great experience, but I love that. That's that, that, that's when you know you're dedicated and you love your power query and your spreadsheet, your calculator. Yeah, I probably would have done that in my head, like, okay, I was wondering, all right, about another four hours. No, you're like, I'm getting precise here.

Yeah, yeah.

All right, we're gonna move into our Rapid fire section. I know you've listened to the show, so you know the basic ground rules, but I'll lay them out anyway. No, it depends. It's, you know, one or the other. You give your answer, we go through them all real quick, and then at the end you can elaborate on one or two because I recognize there's nuance to many of them. So, first one, Circular references. Yes or no?

No.

VBA in models, yes or no?

Yes.

Okay. Do you prefer a horizontal model where you're using lots of sheets, or a vertical model where all your schedules are in one sheet? B vertical. All right. Excel dynamic arrays, yes or no?

100% yes.

How about fully dynamic models with dynamic arrays?

Not quite.

Okay. External workbook links?

No.

Okay, good. You can stay on the show. Named ranges, yes or no?

Yes.

All right. Do you follow a formal standards like one of the boards like Smart or Fast or some of those that are out there when building your models?

No.

Okay. Should financial modelers learn Python in Excel?

No.

All right, what about Power Query?

I know the answer here 100% yes.

Yeah, if you were going to say no, I was gonna be like, all right, something happened. What about Power Bi?

Same as Python. It's useful, but it's not necessary.

Okay, fair enough. Will your favorite tool, Excel, ever die?

Not in my lifetime. Certainly not.

I've got that a few times. I had a few to say. I hope not in my life.

Yeah.

Will I build the models for us in the future?

They will help, but they won't build the full model.

Okay, fair enough. She sell protection in models, yes or no?

Yeah.

All right, and then do you believe financial models are the number one corporate decision making tool?

Yes. And if they aren't, they should be.

All right, and then what's your lookup function of choice? What do you go to for your lookup?

Xlookup. Definitely.

I like it. Xlookup. Good deal. All right, Is there any of those you want to elaborate on your answer?

Yeah, so there's a couple of quick ones. Vba. I like VBA or Offer Script nowadays for me, not so much for the client. So I'll use a lot of vba. If I've got multiple entities and I need to maybe do the same thing a lot of times for say 7, 8, 9, 10 companies, I'll use VBA to maybe run through those and do it. I like to avoid having the VBA in the final client copy, really, if it's unnecessary in there. So I use as a tool, not as an end user tool makes Sense Python and Power bi. I think they're great for the data visualization and I know Python. If you're getting into the realms of, like, really technical forecasting, I think it can be really useful. I think as a financial modeler, they're not absolutely necessary tools in your toolkit, but I think they definitely add value. You know, I certainly use a bit of Power bi, but I think you've got Power BI experts who will probably do a better job than I ever would. I'd rather stick in the models. I think there's probably another couple that I wanted to comment on, but I can't think which ones they were.

That's all right. Those were some good comments. If you think of them, let me know. Otherwise, we'll kind of just move on here and wrap up in a moment. So the next question. If you could offer one piece of advice to our audience to be a better financial modeler, what would be your one piece of advice?

I would take a blank Excel book and a data set, build a full model from top to bottom, and then I would roll it forward for a month, a quarter, a year, whatever data you have available to it, and you will find problems in there and you really stress test that model. So, blank page, start from scratch, work it all out and then stress test it. And you will. You will learn a lot about your model and about your techniques.

Good advice for stress testing. You know, it's like the one I've heard is, but all your assumptions to zero and see if the model goes to zero.

Yes, great. Great one. Yeah. Really good.

When it doesn't, it's like, oh, what did we do?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

All right, so if our audience wants to learn more about you or potentially get in touch, what's the best way for them to do that?

Yeah, so they can find me on LinkedIn at Sean Mooney or they can visit sjfinance.co.uk can book a call and speak to me, take a look at what I do on there. But I genuinely do take an interest in Excel and models and things, so more than happy to discuss it.

All right, great. Well, thank you, Sean Mooney. It was so much fun having you on the show. Really enjoyed chatting with you and I know the audience will enjoy it as well.

Paul, it's been great to be here. Really, really pleased to be part of it, so thank you very much.

Yeah, thank you.

Financial Modeler's Corner was brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. This year I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler certification and it made me a better financial modeler. What are you waiting for? Visit FMI at www.fminstore institute.com backslash podcast and use code podcast to save 15% when you enroll in one of the accreditations today.