7 Ways To Marketing To Doctors For Clinic Owners Without Bribing Them Or Buying Them Expensive Gifts

Sa.

Hey, actually, as. We were gonna get started, and so I just want to welcome everyone to, like, New Patient Secrets. And as you guys, people that don't know me, like, my name is Rick Lau. I am the host of this series. I'm on a mission, everyone. I'm on a mission on how do we get more new patients during this pandemic and so be profitable no matter what search engine, what marketing technique, or an old social media platform or even like Dr. Marketing.

Right.

So that is the question, and I'm on this journey to get you this answer. And so welcome to New Patient Secrets. So every single webinar, I go interview and deconstruct, like the best marketer and clinical owners like Jamie, you know, to get, like, real tools that every one of you could actually implement to get you more new patients. Right. So who's excited about New Patient Secrets? Type in secrets if you're excited for this episode because we're talking about Dr. Marketing. Type in secrets if you are excited. Okay, Jamie. Some people are excited.

I like that.

And just before we get started, we do have a. We do have a sponsor for this event. And this sponsor helps us spread this message as much as possible. A lot of owners actually use this in our community. It's called Giovanno. They are an emar. They do these, like, awesome stuff. I know a lot of big, multiple clinics that are using who is part of the Shivano community and using their platform. Type in Giovanno if you are using their emr. Type in Giovanno. Right. I just want to, like, welcome them. Yeah, they are like, you know, I know from what I heard from our community, like, they're great for, like, running, like, multiple locations, you know, so the more locations you have, the better it is. So type in Giovanna. So good. We got a few people from Giovanno here, and I actually have a special guest today. It is Jamie. Right. And Jamie, when did we meet?

You know, we met. I guess we met a couple years ago through a mutual friend. And then we kind of really started talking. What was it last November at the private practice conference.

Yeah, yeah. And cool. And tell us your story, Jamie, because I actually was fascinated talking to you and one of my. One of my. One of the mentors and one of the people I looked up over the years is NS called Paul Wright. And Paul Wright's like, you gotta meet this guy Jamie.

Yeah, that's who introduced us.

Jamie's like me, except in America. And he is, like, amazing. I wish there was More like business coaches, like Jamie. Right?

That's funny. I'm Paul Wright without the accent. Or maybe I do have the accent. He doesn't have the accent.

You're much younger and better looking.

So, you know, my short story is, you know, I have a passion for helping people, a passion for this field of serving others. And I just loved opening my own practice, thought it was the greatest thing in the world. Talented. Spent a lot of time and energy learning how to take care of people. And I went in there with my fiance, who is now my wife, Colleen. She was the front desk. I was the therapist. I was the doctor. And it was just a wonderful experience. And I was like, what are people talking about? This business isn't hard. This is easy. And then a couple years into it, we started to hire employees. And I had this notion, tell me if I'm wrong here. But I had this notion that people just thought and did things like I did. They showed up on time, they just took care of people. They just did what they had to do. And I started to realize that, you know what? Not everyone does that. Not everyone just thinks like the way I do. And that started causing a lot of stress, Rick. I mean, lots of stress, lots of issues at home. I started increasing the number of hours I was working because not only was I doing my job, working 40 hours, just treating, but I was also doing some of their job because I was getting tons of questions. And sometimes. And if you can relate, sometimes it's easier to do it yourself. So that was my journey. And it became more and more frustrating. And then something crazy happened. We had a fire, and my whole place burned down. 3. A little over three years into my business, and I had the weirdest feeling. I was relieved because I didn't have to go to work on Monday. This happened on a Sunday. So I had time to think. I mean, I know Covid, you have time to think, but I had time to think at that time. That was like my first Covid experience. So I almost. I tried to get out of the field. Like, all my friends were in mortgages and stuff like that. And they weren't. I mean, they weren't the brightest guys in the world. They were making money hand over fist in mortgages, and I'm working my butt off, not making any money, stressed out of my mind. And I said, you know what? That's not really what I want to do. I want to stay in this field. I just need to learn what the hell I'm doing. I never had any training in school. So I dedicated myself to learn, actually to run a business that delivered physical therapy and rehab services. I spent the next nine years doing it, making every possible mistake you can fathom, screwing it up royally. But I started to learn some things, and when I started to implement some of these things that I learned, my business started to grow. I started to removing myself from the day to day operations of it and actually perched myself as a CEO. Small business, but as a CEO and develop a business where I only really worked in the business a few hours a week, and I started making more money. My team was fantastic, the culture was better, and in 2013, when all this came together, I said, you know what? I bet other people could learn from what I did. And I just want to help other people not go through with what I did. So since 2013, that's what I've been focusing on, man.

Yeah, that's awesome. Who wants to start running their clinic like a CEO? Type in CEO. If you want to start running your clinic like Jamie, like a CEO, type that in the chat. You know, I think there's a fundamental difference between running a clinic like a CEO versus as a struggling owner, you know, and so I think there's a big differential there. So I'm glad you actually shared that story. And so today I'm super excited. We're gonna be talking about Dr. Marketing, you know, and Jamie, from what I know of you in our conversations, like, you are a relationships guy, right? And so relationship marketing, Dr. Marketing, they all kind of fit in this bucket. Okay? And so just to get this started, I want people in the chat to type in. Why don't you think doctors refer to your clinic? Okay, type that in the chat. And as you type that in chat, Jamie, I want to hear from you. Why do you think, like, why do you think physicians don't refer to clinics, whether it's a physical therapy clinic or a chiropractic clinic or massage clinic.

Yeah, I mean, you know, most of the time, because they don't know who you are, they don't know what you do, but most importantly, they don't know what. How you can help them. You know, when it. When it comes to marketing, you know, you got to be clear on who you're serving and what you're helping them get. Like, what is the outcome you're getting. And doctors are no different. They need to be very clear in what you do, who is the population you're serving. So if you're not out there, either physically or digitally or through emails or whatever, if they're not clear on what you do. You just get lost in the world of physical therapy or physiotherapy or chiropractic. You just become like everyone else. So the people that they're going to refer to are the people that they have the relationships with.

Yeah, totally, Totally.

Right.

You know, it's interesting. If you look at some of the. I'm gonna, you know, like, so that you don't have to put your glasses on, Jamie, I'm gonna actually read some of the stuff.

I got them right here. I just, I just broke them. So they only have one. One thing. I do have them if you want me to read something.

Yeah, so they said they don't understand what we do. Right. You know, so I think that's really important, you know, or they own their own clinics. You know, that's exactly what's happened in the US as well. And that's happening in Ontario as well, you know, like where, like, what do they call in the us like pops, right? You know, like physician owned clinics, right?

Yeah, I mean, tons of physicians owned clinics here. But you know what? That's not the only doctor, that's not the only referral source out there. And a lot of these people, you know, they have such overflow that. Heck, I built half my company on overflow from some of these orthopedists. And it's mostly the orthopedists who have their own clinics. So it's not everybody. There's plenty of people that can.

So, Jamie, something they said to the relates with me because, you know, I've been, you know, I think people like every single business owner is in essence like in business development, right? You know, we are in sales, right? We are selling.

You said, you said the S word. I didn't, man. You said it.

We are in sales, everyone. And part of sales is developing relationships with people so that they like you, so that they work for you, right? You know, whether it's staff or clinicians or they send your referrals, right? Which is doctors and like employers or other stuff.

Right?

So is that like, like, does that make sense, Jamie? Like, you know, like this whole game is about getting people to trust and like you, right?

That is the whole game of any relationship. You know, I'm a simple person. I've always been a simple person. I like to see things and, and just try to simplify them because that's how my brain is. And I like the basics, whatever the basics are. And when you talk about marketing, you talk about sales. Look, marketing is all about Creating awareness of you and all about developing that likability, that rapport and deepening the trust. That's what marketing does. Whatever medium you do it in, like what we're doing right now, or whether it's through digital marketing, or whether it's through our workshop or anything else, you're developing that rapport and that trust. That's marketing. Sales, on the other hand, is actually taking someone who has an interest, not really in your services because that's a little bogus there. They don't have interest in your services. They have interest in what your services can do for them. And if they're interested and the timing is right, then that becomes actually a client of yours. That's the sale. The sale is the money. The marketing is the relationship and awareness. And, and the better you are at having more people that know what you do, know what you can do for them and help them just by pure numbers, the more people that are going to come to you. But if you're too busy in your clinic, if you're too busy in the weeds of everything, as we like to call the overwhelmed operator, and then all of a sudden you look up and say, why aren't people referring to me? Because they don't know what you know, they don't know what's in it for them and why should they care? And when you do it, even if you do it horribly like I have, when you do it horribly, it still works.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And so, you know, I want to get like these sessions is about getting hyper tactical. So. And I also like people to be sharing like what's worked for them. So specifically to Dr. Marketing people, type in the chat what, like what tactic has worked for you with Dr. Marketing? Okay, type that in the chat. I'm gonna read some of the stuff that comes out here. And then Jamie, like you know, like as people type stuff in, like can you, can you, can you share? Like what would you say? Like, like your top three tactics that kind of work with you with like when you work with like when you coach and you work with like clinical owners on, with like Dr. Marketing.

Yeah. So there's, there's, there's there's several things. Whatever tactic you use, whatever that deep strategy you use, what I have learned is that the more of the relationship that you have with someone, the better the strategy or tactic is going to work. So I just want to say that up front because I know people that are just strategy, I don't know, strategy junkies, you know, they come to me. And like, Jamie, can you help me with patience? And I go, well, what have you learned thus far? And they're like, Well, I learned 23 different strategies, but I think the 24th is going to be the secret. And I'm like, okay, you're missing the basics here. The basics is you don't have any relationship with the doctor and you're looking for some magic bullet. The magic bullets are gone. The magic wand doesn't exist. So if you have a relationship, someone, if you're able to offend authentically and genuinely develop a relationship, then the strategies I'm going to share with you will absolutely work. So the first thing we have to understand, and before this one strategy I'm going to share, which really has to do with, I call it an interview spotlight strategy is what is the doctor looking for? Like, what's in it for them? So when you understand their. In the marketing terms, it's called pain points. It could be challenges, it could be problems, or what's in it for them? When you understand that, it makes this easier. And right now, during this Covid and post Covid and during COVID world, you know, what they're perhaps looking for are patients as well. They're looking for patients. They're looking to maybe feed their ego and get their information out and let them share with people. So this interview spotlight strategy is simply about communicating with a doctor and saying, hey, I'd love to interview you, just like we're doing now. But it can be simple, too. It could be 20 minutes using Zoom recording it. I'd love to interview around a particular topic. Now, the topic has to be something of interest and expertise to the doctor, but the topic also should be something around your target audience. So you don't want to just interview necessarily at the beginning. Of course, any doctor, interview the doctor that's aligned with your target audience, which means you got to be clear on your target audience, what doctor is going to say, no, I don't want someone interviewing me and broadcasting it to their thousands of people. They all love that. They get a kick out of it. And guess what it does. It increases and deepens the relationship. It also provides great information to your audience, to your list of people, and you can also use it for your staff as well. So it can be kind of one of these trainings and stuff like that. And it also helps you generate leads. Marketing term leads. If you know Rick, then you know leads, the word leads. But it gets people interested in what you do. Because when you start saying, hey, I got this great interview, Doc. Do you think your patients would like it too? Do you mind sending it out to them? I'll put everything together, and I'll send you the link. You just send it out to your people. And then also.

So, Jamie, this is awesome because, like, if you.

If you.

If everyone understands what Jamie's talking about, Jamie's talking about, like, kind of what I'm doing with Jamie right now. I'm putting Jamie on a spotlight right now where I interview him. And by doing this, I am feeding into his ego and his status. Right. You know? Right. And I'm developing a better relationship with, like, Jamie. Right. You know, right through this webinar. Right.

Yeah. The hardest part that this person, one of my coaches, my first coaches, said, he goes, jamie, the hardest thing is realizing how easy this really is. We are doing it right now. It is not difficult. It is not complicated, but it works. We have a. One of A. One of our mottos, one of our beliefs at practice. Freedom U. Is results matters. If you get results, continue to do it. Don't stop it.

So this strategy, I'm gonna be devil's advocate. Okay.

Yes.

Like, I am. I'm an owner that. Like, I'm not a likable owner. Okay. Like, I'm not charismatic. You know, I don't have a lot of relationships with doctors, but, like, I would love to, like, interview them, you know, and get them on, like, a zoom one. How would I, like, get, like. Like, a doctor or whether it's a warm. Like, let's start with a warm doctor. Like a doctor that kind of, like, sends you patients but kind of does it, you know, and. But, like, every time you knock into their doctor's office, like, they would never see you. Like, how would I. Like, what do I do to actually, like, get that doctor to jump on my webinar? Right.

Sure. First of all, split your referral sources. Split your doctors up into three buckets. One are the ones that you know the best. Perhaps you even have their cell number. They send you people consistently. It's the deepest relationship. The second bucket is your medium. That what you're talking about? That medium, lukewarm, that they send you people, but you don't have a really great relationship. They're not. They might say hi to you, but that's about it. And then you have your people that they might refer to you, but they have no idea who they are. You're just on somebody's list. You want to start, obviously, with the warmest people, the hottest people, the people in the Middle. There's a couple ways you can do it. You can just send a simple email. Send a simple email. And you don't have to send it to the doctor if you don't have the doctor's email address. Get comfortable. Create that relationship with that office manager, that pa, whoever has the ear of the office. And you can just simply say something like, hey, we are starting a Interview Spotlight series. And what we're doing is we're interviewing doctors in the area and have them share some of their expertise and we're going to, you know, share it with all our people. Is that something that your doctor would be interested in doing? It's not that hard. And if you send it to 10 of them, I guarantee a handful of them are going to say yes. Don't worry about the ones that say no and just say, great, we're going to give you some information. I just need to know what particular topic they want to do. You're going first. You're feeding their ego. And it's really not that hard if you don't even have a list of anyone. One of the best ways, if you don't have the time to go visit a bunch of people in person, that's always a better way. But if you don't have time to do that, or maybe some of these offices aren't quite open. LinkedIn is where the professionals hang out so you can reach out to people. And this is a whole strategy in and of its own, this LinkedIn strategy. You can reach out specifically to doctors on LinkedIn and you can message them and you can say, hey, Doc, I see we live in the same area. Just thought it would be a great idea for us to connect. Then they are going to connect with you and then you can go to the next things. Hey, I really appreciate connecting. If there is anything I can do to be a resource for you, please don't hesitate to reach out. And by the way, you might be interested in the Interview spotlight that I'm doing. That'll help you get your name out there, generate referrals to you. Let me know if that's something you're interested in. Be happy to see if I can help. One of the things that you're doing with this is posturing as you're there to help them. This isn't a relationship where the doctor's up here and you're down here and you're like Oliver Twist, Please, can you have more porridge? I need more. And you're begging people. You are providing a great thing for them. So you have to show up. I know you might be uncomfortable with this. That's just part of learning. I didn't show up like this, by the way. I've had a lot of training being like this. I'm an introvert by nature. If you met my wife, you would know. But you know what? Have the courage, screw it up. It doesn't matter. You know, Rick, I'm sure you didn't just show up like this. Professional clean. Just.

It's a math game to everyone. You know, like, if you're gonna ask, like, maybe, like, let's just say you ask 20 people.

Right? Right.

You know, you invite or ask 20 people that you kind of have a relationship with, then you might get, like, one or two people, and that's what you start off for. And once you have that one, then you can actually, you know, you can actually start using them as a case study for your next one. Start like, you know, hey, you know, you know, Dr. So and so, like, did it like, it was my last podcast, like, do you know them? You know, blah, blah, blah. And then next week you can move on to the next one. Right.

You know, and here's. And here's the beautiful thing about that. I love the fact that you said it's a numbers game, and this is all a numbers game. The numbers that we're seeing at practice, Freedom U is more like 40, 50%. Like, at least, like, half of them are saying yes. So the other thing you do, too, is when you do it, you're like, hey, Doc, you know, really enjoyed it, thought this was great. Who would be someone that might be interested in doing the next one? So you always then have used the document as a way to get one of their buddies, because they're gonna be like, hey, look at me, I did this. And they're gonna like, hey, you gotta talk to John. Dr. Smith. Dr. Smith is great. I go, perfect. Would you mind, you know, just maybe doing an introductory email? Sure, I'd be happy to do that.

This is like leapfrogging, right? So you get one, and then you leverage the social proof of that one, and then that referral moves to another one. Right. You know, and if everyone understand this concept, this happened exactly with, like, how I met Jamie. I leapfrogged from Paul Wright, you know, from Australia. He's from Australia. Everyone to Jamie in. Is it Iowa? Where are you from?

Maryland. Right. Outside Maryland.

Okay. I've never been through Maryland before, but, like, through doing this, like, it's exact same process, everyone, you know, so.

And I met Paul through another mutual person that introduced me. So it goes from Paul to you. Then I met Karine. So that's how it works. And I think sometimes we overthink it, we over engineer it. So when you just say, you know what, I'm just going to try to serve and help these doctors. And if you authentically and genuinely just try to do that, and you say, hey, I just want to interview for about 20 minutes and we'll ask you some questions. I'll give you the questions just like you and I did. Rick telling you this is going to lead to more and more types of things and you're going to naturally get referrals, but something bigger is going to happen. Other opportunities are going to form. This is where you perhaps do a webinar or lunch and learn, or you got to come in and share this with my other doctors. These are the things that happen just from this one strategy.

Yeah, and I think something you brought is really important with, like, with Dr. Marketing is that, like, I've built, like many clinics through doctor marketing, and I never go for the kill. Like, I never, like, ask. I never go for the kill to ask for the referral. Like, without knowing them. Like, my main goal in the very beginning of Dr. Marketing is like, how do I get them to like me? How do I find something in common with them?

Right?

How do I get them to actually like, like me as a human being and trust me? And then once we reach a certain level, I will start, like, going for the ask.

Right?

But without doing. It's gonna be like, without doing that, you're doing what 99% people are doing. Right. You know, if that makes sense in the chat. Type in the chat, like, type in. Yes, if that makes sense. You got to develop the relationship first before you go in for the ask, you know, because if you go for. Because if you go for the ask too quickly, you are not gonna, like, you've lost that. You're just like 99% of everybody else, right?

The question you have to answer for the doctor. And by the way, this is the same thing for a patient, a prospect, anybody else. What's in it for me and why do I care? That's what they're always asking. So if you're reaching out to the doctor, they are thinking, so to meet with you, to connect with you, to do this interview, spotlight thing. Well, what's in it for me and why should I care? What's in it for you? You're going to spread the word about who you are. And your expertise and you're going to get more notoriety. And if that's interesting to you, unless you have a line out the door and you don't care, then that's the benefit because I'm going to share it with my audience. And we have several thousand people, so it could be a great way. See if you come from that perspective of what's in it for them and not what's in it for you. We all know what's in it for us. We all know relationships lead to referrals. But if you don't get into that rapport initially, it's not going to work. And I think too many times that's what we do.

Let's do this exercise. Type in the chat. What do you think right now is the biggest pain point of a doctor?

Right. Oh, I love that.

Type in the chat, you know, like, what is the pain point of a doctor right now? Right.

Oh, I love that one. Even though I don't have my glasses, I can read that one.

That one's at time.

Yes.

I don't have time. Yeah, like low billing rates, you know, like, you know, they're not getting paid enough.

Right.

You know, from the government or Medicare in us Medicare in Ontario.

Ohip.

You know what else? What else? What else is a pain point for docs? Right?

Rick, can I jump in here with the time one? Because one thing we are experts of is time, right? That was the one thing I learned more than anything else. So think about this. The doctors don't have time. They are being grabbed in every which way. I mean, if you own a business that has staff, you can understand how many questions you get from your staff. But included in that is every drug rep and every other person that's vying for their time. And here's the physio and the chiro and the massage therapist going to the doctor saying, hey, can I have your time, too? What's in it for me? Why should I care? Oh, I just want you to send me patients. There's really nothing in it for you. I'll do a good job, though. Like, why would you meet with you? And that's what hit me when I started going through this process of every time I approached anyone else, I always looked at it from my perspective of what's in it for me. And. And when I started changing my perspective and started to appreciate where they are and started to talk to the doctor and say, doc, how are things going with you? What's the number one thing you are focusing on? Not that I Am there to solve it. I am just there to listen. But it started creating a rapport and they immediately looked at me as not someone trying to suck off the teat and just get something from them. I was there to really try to see how I can be a resource. And that led to. To a relationship of referrals.

Yeah, I love that. I love that.

So I tell the quick story about the rancher and the farmer.

Yeah.

Do you mind?

Yeah.

So there's two types of marketing thoughts. One is the rancher and one is the farmer. So a rancher, the way they do marketing is this. They look at everybody like a cow and when they're hungry and they want to eat, they just slaughter that cow. And it's steak tonight, right? We're having burgers, we're having steak, we're having some ribs. That's the rancher marketing mentality. The mentality that I imbibed by, that I follow, that we teach is the farmer's way. Now, it may take a little bit longer, but the farmer is all about cultivation. You're cultivating the soil, you're planting the seeds, you're watering it, you're making sure there's no weeds, you're putting the proper fertilizer. And then what happens? Those seeds start to grow. And they don't only grow once they continue to grow, they continue to come back again and again and again. And what I found and what I've learned personally, when you take a farmer's approach, and it doesn't have to take years or anything like that, but when you take that approach, you develop deeper relationships that come back again and again and again that then lead to other relationships. And if you have a, and I know how you meant this, Rick, but if you have a I want it now, I want people right now. I don't care about you. You just send me people. I'm going in for the kill. Without sufficient rapport, without sufficient relationship and trust. You know what it's like going on a date or not even going on a date, meeting someone at a bar, just say, hey, I know we don't know each other. I know you don't know anything about me, but do you want to go away with me for the weekend? I mean, you're not going to build a long term relationship like that. So you got to start with small steps building that trust. And if you do, I've never seen someone not generating as many referrals as they want.

I love it. And you brought up some good questions. You know, like these are Good opening questions that you can ask docs, right? You know, you know, like one of the ones I like. And can everyone see my screen here? I think you can, right?

Yeah, yeah, I can see it.

Is, you know, ask them like, hey, like is there any, is there any feedback from your patients? Like, you know, ask them feedback about, from their patients on like, you know, on something that you sent them already, you know, or I love this one. How do actually, how can I actually make your life easier, right? Find out exactly their paper. Like what would it be a good like opening question to find their pain. Jamie?

Yeah, so I love these questions. I'm going to put a little spin on it because some of these questions. Are you happy with the surfaces we're providing? What's that question about? It's about you, right? You're still focusing on you. I would just tweak the question and I would say something like what typically is, you know, serves you the best. Like what typically that physical therapies that physical therapists that you work with or physios that you work with that you like to work with the most and why. So you make it more open of, you know, instead of saying what service, you know, are you happy with the services, you know, what type of services do you typically need or what type of services does your patients typically need? What type of services you typically refer out to specialists for? So you're keeping it more open ended and not going to you another one is, is there any feedback from your patients you feel I should know? What typical feedback do you get from your patients that drives you crazy?

Oh, I like that one. That's a good one. What typical feedback do you get when your patients what typical feedback do you.

Get when you refer to a specialist? Remember, we're specialists. What typical feedback do you get when you refer to a specialist that absolutely drives you crazy? Now they're going to start sharing. Well, you know what drives me crazy when I refer to someone? They can't see them for three weeks and then they come back to me. What drives me crazy is they go to therapy or they go to somebody and the person doesn't really know how many times they should be coming in or what specifically they're doing. I hate it when they, I send them to somebody and they don't follow my script. What they're giving you is gold. They're giving you how to better communicate and fix your pro. Again, this focuses on them and then you can say what is the single most biggest challenge you have when you can't Help one of your patients. What's the single problem you have or what's the absolute train wreck that you get that you don't want to see?

Type in gold if you're loving. What? Like these, the opening questions that James gave you. Type in gold if you're loving.

Love.

Because honestly, like I'm, like I love these questions. This question gives you the goal that you need. Type in gold.

Okay.

All right.

And you know what it takes it away from. And we can go all into communication. We can talk about communication, how you communication, how you show up. But what you're asking are open ended questions for the doc that don't have to do with you. You're just listening. Open ended questions for the doc. And by the way, you can use these for any referral source. And chances are you already use this when you're working with patients. We're just going to tweak it a little bit and make it more with the doc. And you can use this, by the way, you can use this for the front desk.

Oh, yeah. Hey Jamie, what was the last one with the train wreck one? What is the absolute, what train wreck?

What's the patient that, what typical patients do you see that in your opinion are just absolute train wrecks and you just wish you could just send them somewhere and just have someone take care of them and you could, you know, you can make it more specific. So when they say, well now I wouldn't say train wreck, but I mean there are, there are chronic pain people that come back again and again and we're not a chronic pain, chronic pain place.

And I'm like, really?

So what would help you the most? Would it help you if someone was able to take that, that person off your plate, take care of them and provide some level of care and help them? That'd be great. Well, I'd be happy to do it. Is there someone you can think of right now? Well, yeah. Who would that be? Well, Mrs. Smith, I'd be happy to take care of them. What's the best way to move forward? So now all of a sudden you're helping someone and you're helping the doctor. Of course you're getting paid, of course you're getting a person, but you're doing it that this is helping the doctor because that opens up a space for someone else.

Yeah.

And of course they're always going to send you kind of the more difficult people to test you out and then send you more of the people of the target audience that you want. Yeah.

So let's get to that point. So how would you go for the ask now? Okay, let's assume you had a relationship. Okay. You know, like, you have the relationship, you got the warm and fuzzy. And then like, you, like, you ask the open ended questions and you figure out, okay, you know what? Like, you know, like, these are my pain points, you know, and then like, how would you go for the ask? You know, like, well, I mean, when.

You have that relationship and you're saying that you already have the rapport, you already have the relationship, you're communicating with the document, you just flat out and ask, hey, doc, is there any patients that you think we could help? Is there any patients that, and I would be more specific than that, I'd niche it out. Hey doc, is there any back pain patients? Is there any patients, is there any people you're seeing that really are more of your middle aged runner that.

You.

Think would, would benefit from the services that we do? Because at that point they understand what you do and the results you get.

Yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts about this?

I would just flat out, you know, once you get that relationship, you don't have to tip a toe. When you don't have a relationship, how to get someone to refer, first of all, it's a rancher mentality. And second of all, chances are they're not. Or worse. Here's what's worse. Worse, they will send you somebody just to shut you up and get you out of the door. But what you're showing by walking in there without having any relationship, without caring about them at all and just saying, hey, doc, will you send me somebody? You should send me somebody. We can help you. We treat one an hour, we treat two an hour. We're experts on this. You know how many initials I have after my name? And they're like, fine, I'll send you somebody. Get out of my door. And then they never see you again.

Have on my name.

I love that.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Credentials. Drives me crazy.

You brought something. It's a very good point. Like this, what I've learned with like people have been successful with like doctor, like a physician, marketing. Don't go, don't, don't go. Tell the doc that you could treat everybody.

Right.

You know, go after like a narrow like, like niche focus, depending on what it is. So if, and once, like, let's just say like, you know, like you're gonna focus on like, just like pelvic health in this case, right?

Yep.

Gain the trust of the pelvic health. Right. You know, then you move on to like the next, like, body part, you know, but don't go, don't try and say like you're, like you're jack of all trades, you know, because I think that's like what most people do and that ends up being very dangerous.

Right.

Would you agree, Jamie, or no?

100%. I mean, the niches are in. The riches are in the niches. You know, it's not that you can't treat everything, but we are specialists. I mean, I'll give a great example that everyone here has experienced. You're in your neighborhood right now, right? Someone is having a problem. What do they say? Do they say, hey, Jamie, I'm having back pain. Do you know a generalist that can treat everything to help me? No. You know what they say, Jamie? Do you know of someone that specializes in back pain? It's a niche, it's specific. That's what we want. We want someone who is a specialist in our problem. We don't want someone who's the jack of all trades. Plus, you can't remember the 13 things that you treat. I go on the websites and I see, hey, we treat. And there's 42 things listed. Come on, go after the one thing. The doctor should walk away from your meeting remembering one thing about you, one thing about your company, because they're not going to remember the 10 things that you tell them, oh, we could treat this and this. When they ask you, so what do you do? You know, be clear in what you do, who do you help and what is the outcome or result? We call it the who and do what statement. So first step for everybody on this call, and there's a lot of you, the first step before doing anything that we talked about today, and correct me if I'm wrong, Rick, be clear on the target audience that you treat the people you'd love to treat, the people who are your ideal people, that you do a better job treating this than anybody else in the world. Start with that and here's what will happen. And I promise you that will start to expand by getting other referrals. But you have to look at it from their perspective. They can't remember everything. Just have them remember one thing about you.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And when you start asking these opening questions, you may realize that they actually don't do a lot of backs, they actually do a lot of knees. So if you're going to go for the ask, go for the knee, not for the back. Right? Am I right there, Jamie?

Well, you have to know Your audience. So the doctor know what their specialty is. So when I have meetings with doctors, the meetings I have with doctors are the doctors that have influence over my target audience. Those are the best meetings. And then of course, the subject is around that particular area. So you're spot on, man.

I love that. I love that. If that makes sense, everyone type in like niche, okay? Type in niche, if that makes sense. Okay? Everyone like, don't, don't, don't be a generalist. You have to go in from a place of being niche that I'm an expert of, like this niche thing. And then like, and then you move on. Okay, cool. Cool. Yeah.

All right.

Wow.

We're not a generalist. We're not in just general family care medicine. Remember? Think of this. Who makes more money? Who is more regarded? Your family care practitioner or the heart surgeon? That only works on the heart. And the reason is because the money's not in the generalists. The money is in the specialists. We are specialists. There is something you love to do and love to treat. Become a specialist. It'll be the best thing that you do, especially when you're marketing and communicating.

Cool. What's. Okay, so we did the spotlight, we did the niche. What would you say is like one more like marketing, Dr. Marketing, like tactic that you want to share?

There's a lot of them. But another simple one is again in the same topic that we're focusing on, Rick, which is what can we do for the doctor and why should they care? And I call it the advocate, the advocate incentive. So I've never met a doctor. I don't care how successful. I know doctors that make millions of dollars. When I say, hey, doc, do you not need any referrals? No, Jamie, I absolutely want referrals from you. They always want referrals. How many physios, how many chiros actually refer to the doctor? Because in my experience, for most people it's a one way street. What can you do for me? So the advocate incentive basically utilizes not just your ability, but your staff's ability. Because everybody is asking them. They're the experts. They're the influencers. So simple. What if you incentivized everyone in your staff that when you make a referral, make it to one of your strategic partners. And the strategic partner is the particular doctor that you have the relationship with.

So, Jamie, I'm devil advocate, okay? I'm going to be devil advocates to some of our Canadian owners that are probably thinking, well, Jamie, my doctors are so busy right now that they're not Taking new patients. Right. Okay, who agrees? Type in yes in the chat if you're thinking that right now. Okay.

If your doctor is not accepting new patients, find a doctor who is.

There you go.

Everyone.

Okay. That is your answer. And a good strategy is like to focus on the right doctor. So focusing the right doctor is find a new doctor that's in your neighborhood. Right.

Who is new.

Right.

And by the way. And by the way, I understand if they're asking that question. I get it. Which is why I stopped trying to deepen the relationship with family practices and generalists, general practitioners, because a lot of them were in network and they're like, jamie, I closed my referral. I don't want any more referrals. But the specialists. The specialists always had openings. The specialists wanted to. And those were the people that I deepened the most relationships. So now, and you don't have to refer a million people, we just looked for one or two people to refer. We would get back five times the number of referrals for everyone we sent. And we're sending a referral. Not just to send. We're sending someone that needed to go see an orthopedist knee specialist that needed to go to a chiropractor, that wanted to go see a podiatrist. So we just made it easier for them. Again, that's a win. We're providing, saying, hey, we know Dr. Asili. Great person, great doc. Would it be okay if we made a phone call and tried to get you in and bypass all that stuff? So we would do all that for them. Then I would send an email saying, hey, Dr. Ocili, I just want to thank you. Listen to this. I didn't say, hey, I sent you someone. You should be thanking me. I thanked him for taking care of my patient. Thank you so much for helping me to take care of my patient. And then guess what happened? He said, oh, you're welcome, and thank you for referring. Thank you. All of a sudden, within a week, three more patients showed up from Dr. Osili. And then guess what you do. You rinse and repeat. And of course, we want to show our gratitude and appreciation to our staff who is helping us do this. I'd give them 5% of what a new patient is worth to us.

I'd pay them. I love that. And one thing I just want, obviously, the clinics in the US Is very different from the ones in Canada, and I get that. But for the Canadian one doing Dr. Marketing, I'm just going to say that what you want to focus on is like, you know, something that will make it a lot easier, like for this referral strategy is focus on new doctors, like coming into the neighborhood. Okay, Right. Or the ones that are about to retire. Okay. You know, because if you focus on those retired, you're gonna know who's gonna be the new ones. And these, these are the people that you kind of want to penetrate before, like someone else, like, develops relationship with first, you know? Right. Does that make sense? Everyone, if that makes sense, type in like new doctor. You know, if that makes sense. You want your like, so instead of you trying after on go after like, like the new ones. Right.

So yeah, the whole idea with this referral out strategy, the whole idea is that this is for doctors who you have identified that actually want new referrals. That's the idea. The other strategy on top of this, and I got. And I kind of mixed it up here, that's the referral out strategy. The advocate incentive strategy. The advocate incentive is basically using your staff who everyone talks to. Like, if you have therapists, everyone always goes to them and say, hey, my shoulder hurts. And this is. This, this hurts. And you basically say, hey, if that person is talking to you, if you bring them in, give you a, I'll give you a referral, basically a thank you incentive on that. So that's. I mix that up, Rick. I apologize for that. The advocate incentive is incentivizing your staff that, hey, when they bring someone in. And this works really great when you're maybe staff is not that busy, this helps build their own schedule. And, you know, costing 50, let's say 5% of what a new patient's worth, new patient's worth $1,000, you know, maybe not, maybe not 5% of $1,000. But if the profit of a new patient, let's say, is, you know, whatever, 500 bucks, then, you know, giving them $50 is well worth it and they love it too.

I'm gonna give a really simple tactic that you can also implement tomorrow with like, doctor marketing is that, like, you know, I have a lot of buddies who own, like, medical clinics and they get a boatload of like, emails and faxes.

Okay.

Let's be honest. Right? And so the, you know, like, so the key is that, like, how do you get a doctor to actually read one of your emails and faxes? Okay, that's always been like the biggest challenge. Like, people are doing it, but how do they actually see it? So, so this is how you actually get a doctor to read, like, any of your correspondences. Number one is it needs to be able to like, it needs to have like, you actually have to have the doctor's name on there and it has to have the patient's name. There's an obligation with the college to be able to put it in the report and they will actually read it. Okay? So that is very, very important. And so what has really worked is that is making sure that like any one of your care plans or your treatment plans, you should fax that into the doctors. And on there like you put your care plan which lets them know what's going on, like abc. But then also in there you include like, you include like, you know, like, you know, like in there like some, some of your marketing information in there, right? So it actually gets them to see it. So that if you're offering like telehealth, you're offering like these back paying free back paying workshops or you're doing urgent care. That's where you place that if that makes sense. Type in treatment plan, fax your treatment plan, or email treatment plan, if that makes sense. That is something, if you put the names, it will get to the doctors and the doctors will read it. Okay? If you don't do it, they chuck it and put in a different bucket. Okay? You can't just fax them like so, so this is the best way to do that, right? So.

You can piggyback off of that as well. And you know, if you're doing, if you're doing the Interview Spotlight and you can say, hey doc, thank you so much for referring the patient. Here's an updated of their plan of care. By the way, I was wondering if you were interested in our new program of Interview Spotlight. What we do is yada yada yada, hey, here's my cell phone, reach out, let me know. Or here's my email. So now it's an automatic type of thing. Same thing you're saying, but you know, it's just another way that, you know they have to read your fax or your email.

And my suggestion too is that before you fax it or email, email that treatment plan or care plan to that doctor's office. Call the clinic and find out what the men's name is and develop a report. But let them know you're gonna be faxing them something, okay? And then on your fax or your email, make sure you address them this way they will actually put it inside the doctor's box and they will actually read it. Okay? Does that make sense? Type in admin. Call admin if that makes sense. If you're gonna. If you call them in before you send it, you're gonna have a higher likelihood of doing that. Okay, what do you think about that one, Jamie?

I think that's brilliant, man. That's good stuff.

And the last thing, this is what everyone does not do when people self discharge or people, like, a lot of people send their initials, but most people do not send, like, what happens when they self discharge or they graduated, you know? Right. And so the third tip is like, make sure, like, anyone that is self discharged or graduated, inform the doctors, let them know, like, what's going on. Because, like, people don't know. Like, these doctors do not know. Right.

So absolutely. You know what? So I've done. I've done these. And the third one that you mentioned, what's interesting is imagine doctors apologizing to you. I had so many doctors apologizing to us, saying, hey, I'm so sorry. I promise I won't send someone like that again. I know they were a little flaky, and then I had a good relationship where they go, all right, ma', am, well, send me some good ones here. Who do you know? Who do you have for us? Because, yeah, they don't show up. What are we supposed to do? So I like that one, Rick. Good one.

So I interview a lot of like, like, I know a lot of like, physician liaisons, like in the U.S. right. You know, so their main job is just like to do, like, do marketing, like pharmaceutical reps.

Right.

And so, and they're, you know, the biggest secret they told me is, is like the one thing that makes them like, I get referrals is like the moment they could get the doctor to give you their cell phone. Okay, so, so, Jamie, like, what strategy do you think, like, is there any technique you think we get, like, to get a doctor to get you their. Their cell phone?

Well, you know, the way. I mean, the way I've gotten cell phones is creating that interpersonal relationship. And the best way to do that is in person, which may be a little bit more challenging right now. But I know that with the interview spotlight strategy, I got every single person's cell phone that I ever did. And I would just say I go, hey, what's your cell phone? You know, I don't want to go through the front desk and all that. And they're like, sure, here it is. I've never had someone not give it to me. But to ask for a cell phone when there isn't a relationship or rapport and all that, I'm not giving you my cell phone number, and you're going to be hounding me and stuff like that. So that's. That's the way I've done it. Pretty. Pretty simple.

That's a good tip. Something that. Something that they shared with me that was quite good. I was like, it's a really good tip. Who wants to hear that tip on how to get a doctor cell phone? Type in, like, cell phone, right? If you want me to show you.

Okay.

And Jim, you're bang on. They're not gonna give you the cell phone if you ask for the cell phone. But if you have it, you know, it's a win. Right? You know, and so the best way to actually get that doctor's cell phone is you actually give your cell phone to the doctor.

Right.

You know, and the way you do that is that if you. Once you develop a report stage, because a lot of these doctors get frustrated when they call the clinic. They don't want to be put on hold.

They.

They actually want to talk to the physiotherapist. They want to talk to the chiropractor. Right. So your message that seems to work through some of the. Is that, like, you give them their cell phone so they can bypass the clinic and actually talk to you directly, you know, or if they want to get treated for free. Right.

Yeah. It reminds me of another thing, too, is, you know, a lot of times a doctor will call the office and talk to the therapist or talk to you at that point. That's a great time to say, you know, hey, doc. Yep, we'll sure pay. Hey, you know what? Probably the best thing to do is, is it okay if I give you my cell phone and you can just reach out to me directly and then I can reach out to you directly and we can kind of save your time, you know, Save time, but remember, I'm doing it. What's in it for them? Save time and they don't have time. So kind of a piggyback on that as well.

That is cool. That was cool. Yeah, that was really good. You know, like, I think, wow. It's almost like to the hour now.

Jamie, time flies when you're having fun. I hope people got at least one nugget from all of this.

Yeah. I'm curious. Type in the chat so far. What is your biggest takeaway from our doctor marketing tactics from today? Type that in the chat, everyone. Right? What is your biggest takeaway so far? What is something that you're going to start implementing, like, tomorrow to be able to, like, develop relationships or get more doctor referrals.

Right?

So all right. Your farmer talk is working. That is great.

Farmer and a rancher. How many farmers do I got out there?

Yeah, yeah. Remember, facts, treatment plans, you know, niche, right, Farmers, right. Include doctoring, market. Include your marketing info and your plan of cares. Like put that in the back. P.S. right. You know, P.S. did you know we're offering like low back paying free workshops to help people support during this like Covid thing, blah blah blah.

Right.

So become a specialist. Okay, that's a good, that's a good share, you know, like, is there any other questions? Actually, last question. How do you get a gatekeeper to like you? Okay, someone type in the chat. How do you get a gatekeeper? Like this is a front desk gatekeeper, you know, how do you get them to like you? Type that in the chat. Okay, what do we have? Candy, Respect. Free pizza. Learn their name, right?

Oh wait a minute. I heard one I liked the other ones. I don't know about that, but I heard one I liked.

What was the one?

You used to start with an N. Learn their name. Yeah, people love hearing their name. People love that. See how you get people to like you are all rapport, basics, smile, eye contact, posturing, saying their name, it's amazing what happens. And also being mindful and respectful of where they are. So if you walk in and they're on the phone and they look busy and all that kind of stuff and you like lean over the desk, that is not generating a nice rapport. But if you just sit there and say, you know, after they get off the phone and say, hey, you look really busy as heck. My name is Jamie, I'm from Shrier Physical therapy. Listen, am I catching at a good time? Right? You are asking a question right from the get go that they're going to answer. Am I catching at a good time? Or I like to say, am I catching at a bad time? So they have to say no. This has to do with Chris Voss's work around negotiation. Am I catching at a bad time? Oh no. Okay, you seem really busy here. Is this a typical day? And you just start doing a little bit of a chit chat. Well, I know with my office, my front desk hates when people just come in there trying to sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. And then you can start bridging into so what can I do? How can I help you? That's what they're going to say to you. And now you can start that conversation. You can say, well listen, you know, we're in the Area. We're a physical therapy place. We specialize a lot with runners, but we see other people as well. What are the typical things that your office and the doctor typically refers to specialists, like, what is your niche here? You're just asking questions. The number one way you can really create that relationship, besides those core basic rapport strategies, is just ask questions. And by the way, you are not there to seal the deal. This is the equivalent of having just an innocent cup of coffee. You are not sealing the deal on this date.

You are collecting information. So you know what to talk to the doctor about because they just opened the door for you. Right. You know?

Yeah. And you're also. Look, you know how many times. There's another strategy, by the way? It's called the list strategy. When. How many times I've gone into a doctor's office, I'm talking to the front desk person, being mindful, being respectful and all that kind of stuff, and they say, well, Jamie, the doctor never refers out. We just have a list. And I go, oh, is that how you refer people? And like, yeah. What would one have to do to get on the list? I could just add your name. Would you do that? Would you add our name and our specialty? Sure. All of a sudden, we're getting referrals that are just overflow, that don't cost anything because that's how they refer out. So to build a big relationship with the doc, what I found was a waste of time because the doctor doesn't care that much about it. They just rely on a list getting clear on how they refer to specialists and is critical when you're with the gatekeeper, because the gatekeeper means that you're trying to get to the doctor. I can't tell you how many offices I went in. The doctor really doesn't get involved in referring at all. It's someone else on the team. That's the person you want to have the relationship with. A lot of time it's a list or it's the office manager or some other person. So that information is critical.

I love that. And you know, you know, something that. That I've done in terms of development rapport with a gatekeeper is seeing what's on their desk, like looking at their nails or looking at their phones and looking for reasons to actually spark a conversation. Right. And so I've tried one where, like, I was like, oh, my. Because a lot of them, like, have really nice nails. Right. Like. Like fancy nails. I'll be like, oh, my God.

Like, I was like, I love what you do to nails.

Like, can you tell me more? Like, my wife is into this stuff or my, like. And then, like, they start talking about what they like. But, like, that, to me is just, like a segue of, like, having a conversation. Right. You know, so. Right, absolutely. What do you think about that one?

There is a theme on this conversation, for sure.

I was like, oh, I like your hair. Like, did you just get a haircut? Like, this is, like, amazing. Last week I saw you, like, it was like this. You're noticing, like, things. Imagine, like, dating someone for the very first time. You're noticing, like, things that they like. And once you develop that relationship with them on those small little things, it will lead to other conversations. So then when you find out how they refer to. You could say, hey, what is it? Like, what needs to happen for me to be on this referral list?

Right.

You know. Oh, you know what? You know, I'll put you on that list, you know, Right.

Can I give you. Can I give you a very good. But it's not creepy. But it could be, but you're not doing it for that reason. So we all. The more you know about someone, the better it is to create commonalities. Another way to create rapport is. Is to have common interests. All of our friends, we have common interests with them. That's why they're friends. So if, you know, this could be for the doctor, this could be for the front desk. This could be for the office manager meeting with. Go on Facebook and try to learn about them. Go on LinkedIn, learn about them. Where do they live? What are their hobbies? What do they like doing? Do you have any common interests in friends? And you can bring that up. You could just say. You could just say, hey, so, you know, I see that you're. I hear that you're a runner. You know, where do you. Where do you typically run? What are your tracks that you do? That's a great way to start building relationships and then giving you time to learn more.

You know what? I would take it to a new level so you don't look creepy. Like, if you know that they're a runner because you creep them on Facebook, I would just talk about running, and then they'll say, hey, are you into running? But you know that they're into running because you already researched them, right?

You know, yeah, you know, there's a million tactical approaches, but as you know, Rick, as well as I do, it's about using what works for you, using what is embodied with how you like to show up. Because all of us on this call right now and everyone that's going to be listening. We already do this for a living. We build rapport. We connect with people every day. It's just using those same things that you do and applying it to the doctor, to their, to their staff and not trying to be something you're not. Just be you and just connect with people. And I'm telling you, you're going to get plenty of people. Even if you try to screw it up, you can't.

I love this. I love this. Hey, Jamie, we got a wrap up now, so. Yeah, man, that was amazing, Jamie. Like, that was like, thank you for doing that. You got this, like, wicked free book. I'm just gonna type it in the chat. Everyone type in the chat. Actually, Jamie, I want you to talk about, talk about, like this free book that you're gonna offer to people.

Shameless Plug, everybody. Shameless Plug. But it's more than just a plug. So this book is the story of from the fire to how I created a business that I was able to run the day to day just by doing a little bit of maintenance work, like really create a business that we all wish for, that we all want. And I get to play the role that I want. This book, the Practice Freedom Method, is how I did it. There are tactics, there are strategies. You want hiring, you want additional marketing. A lot of the stuff that Rick is saying, I go into much more detail. You want to learn how to build culture, time management, metrics. It's everything that I did and you'll love it because I share all the fricking war stories. I share how I was feeling, how I was thinking, and I'm very open and honest when it comes to this stuff. I want to give this to every single person who wants it for free. It's a digital copy. You can download it instantly. You don't have to wait. And I just want to help. Like you said, you're on a mission. I'm on a mission. I want to transform how we do business and get the time and the money and the success and the impact of every single person. And this book can help provide some of those things that you need. So it is my gift to you and your audience.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. And if you guys want this book, type book in the chat. Okay? Type in book in the chat if you want this free book from Jamie. And yeah, I'm going to set up a follow email for people who type in book so that you can like, download for free. If you type in book, I will send you an email afterwards and then you can. You will be able to download that. So, Jamie, like, thank you so much for joining us today. Like, everyone, let's give Jamie, like, a super high five. Type in high five. Like, it was amazing. He dropped some, like, knowledge bombs. Like, that was amazing. And Jamie, I'm so excited. Who wants Jamie to come back another session? Type in, like, Jamie if you want Jamie to come back another session. What will we talk about?

Jamie? It is endless. What we can talk about. We can talk about all kinds of stuff.

That is awesome.

This is the tip of the iceberg.

So, Jamie, you know what? There's enough people like, this was amazing. I'm gonna get you to come back a second time. We'll figure what the topic it is. But once again, Jamie, amazing. Thank you very much. And we will see everyone. Yeah, we'll see everyone. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks. On the next episode of new patient secrets. The next episode, everyone, we are going to. I'm going to interview a clinic owner that has, like, just, like, has crushed it in terms of building, like, a niche pelvic health practice. And she's actually going to share with us, actually, how do you actually build, like, a niche practice? How do you market a niche practice? How do you get the word out and build a niche practice? If you're excited about that, type in pelvic health.

Okay.

Type in pelvic health. If you're excited about the next episode of, like, new patient secrets, I'm going to interview someone that's like, crush it already. And then we're going to learn the secrets of, like, niche practice. Right?

So.