Episode 4 with Gary Vaynerchuk

Hey everybody, it's KP, a creator, community builder, and the program director of On Deck's No-Code Fellowship. And this is Build in Public podcast, where I interview ambitious founders and creators to share their worldviews, best practices, and actionable advice on the topic of building in public. Welcome everybody to another episode of Building Public Podcast. I'm your host KP, and if you hear my voice shaking, it's for a reason. Today I'm thrilled to welcome the one and only Gary Vaynerchuk to my podcast. Gary, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me.

First off, I want to say thank you for accepting my invite in a very unconventional way on Twitter, shooting my shot. I learned that from you.

Of course, you keep saying this. for years, and also want to extend a warm shout out to your team, Lou, Maha, Hailey, for making this happen. So if you're listening, thank you, everybody. I want to kick us off straight to the topic that we both have been jamming on just before getting it started. So the idea of VeeFriends, big fan, been watching the space. What was the origin or the genesis of the idea? Do you remember the day or the conversation that sparked this in, in your brain?

You know, it's a long journey, right? If you look back at all my garage sale videos, if you look at the things I've talked about with collectibles, um, there's a lot of things that— the references I make to '80s cartoons and nostalgia, even my fascination with wrestling character development— there's a lot of things that went into it. But the aha moment In December and January, there was a lot of smoke around NFTs for me personally.

Right.

And then the aha moment in February was like, oh, this is really happening, happening. And I got very, very serious about it. And what was really interesting was there was a moment, it was on a Saturday night in late January, early February, where I was like, I'm living this. This is what I'm going to do. This is what I'm going to do. And I'm going to get very involved in NFTs. And then very quickly, right behind that was what I normally do, which is I'm going to get my hands dirty.

Right.

So what ended up happening was I knew that I had to do a project, just like I knew I had to do a project with Wine Library TV in 2006. And just like I knew I had to do a project in 1997 with winelibrary.com.

Empathy Wines.

That's right. But Empathy Wines was something I've done a lot of projects, but both winelibrary.com and Wine Library TV and building GaryVee and building winelibrary.com were much bigger because they were my reaction to there's something huge going on. And let me be a student by being a practitioner. And so that's what happened here. Oh my God, NFTs is happening. Let me do VeeFriends. which was really just a recalibration of something I was working on 2 years ago called Workplace Warriors, which were characters that I was going to make into little shelf toys and desk toys so that people could think about optimism or kindness or patience during their workdays.

Right.

So that's what happened there. Yeah. So it just was eureka. And then 100 days later, it launches.

So from that Saturday to the launch and the post-launch energy and excitement in the community, like, how's the journey been and what's one favorite story or a highlight that you can think of that you were surprised by?

The journey has been remarkable. It's an incredible, you know, 100-day journey for me. probably from February 13th to May 12th is exactly the actual dates. And I will never forget it. It will absolutely be a substantial moment in my career. I know that to be true today. I think it's funny where my brain went. The adversity comes to mind. That first hour of launching on the 12th after a 1-week delay, And knowing that there was a glitch in the MetaMask gas, and knowing that was going to turn people off, the website was down, that was going to turn people off, and I'm running a Dutch auction.

Right.

So that hurt the prices for sure, which was fine. A highlight was the first one to resell a week ago, maybe 4 days ago, the first person to resell there. That was super exciting to me.

An OpenSea, I think?

An OpenSea, yeah. So that's interesting. To me, this community that I've built on Discord is out of control. That is going to be something, but really it's about the things to come. It's knowing that I've got, um, a ton of things brewing in the— this is like the beginning of the rest of my life,

right?

I am going to build these characters with the same vigor that I used to build up my own personal brand.

I want to ask, when it's all said and done, what do you hope to accomplish With this project, what is the legacy of VeeFriends that you hope to paint over decades?

I hope that these characters scale my mission to teach personality traits that I believe in: accountability, kindness, ambition, patience, empathy. So I'd like to leave a mark, you know, why not, why not try to be an impactful human being. Why not? And I think the way I can do that is through my communication capabilities. And I think I penetrate people in a way that's unique. I've come to realize that in my 30s and early 40s. And now I want to scale that because what I— the way I talk may work for you, but it may not work for your aunt. Or your niece, or for your buddy John. And I think about that. As a matter of fact, I'm quite aware that for 30% of people, 20% of people, it's instant turn-off instead of the other way. A little too much, too aggressive. People feel like my conviction and passion sometimes comes across as egotistical or as a know-it-all. And I'm empathetic to that feedback. I respect it. I also know that is the furthest thing from my intent. And, um, and I'm incredibly passionate to develop these characters, to continue my journey of pushing good human attributes. And that's what I'm going to do.

Gary, I don't know if you remember, you probably got like a million quote tweets that day, but I, I equated to Walt Disney of the NFT era. And I— it sounds, of course, like a hyperbole or a compliment, but what I meant there was, is The real impact will uncover 2035, 2045.

Yeah, that's right.

Of the characters.

That's right.

I think what's interesting there is that you're sort of almost removing yourself from the message and the attributes and the values of what you believe in are the message because the characters and the drawings are not necessarily just— it's not just Gary Vee in different outfits. Right. I think that's what I love about it. It's not just— it's not your face in different outfits. It's kind of like with Disney. When you think about Disney, Star Wars and everything, and you're like, it's the Jedi, it's the story.

That's right.

Of who went on an adventure.

And what's funny is historically Walt Disney, Vince McMahon, George Lucas were always people that I felt more interested in than being, you know, a famous person.

Right.

Even though those people had notoriety, they were definitely different than Tom Cruise or Hulk Hogan or Mickey Mouse. And so I almost feel like my journey is going to be a little bit one of backwards. I think there's a very— I love interacting with people and I'll never shy away from that. But look, my behavior proved it. I didn't go to Hollywood. I didn't want to be on the Food Network or QVC. I just became an executor of the medium that was emerging with YouTube and social media. I believe that's about to happen with my NFTs.

I'm excited. As just a fan, as another executor, as another builder in the space, I think you laid the foundation. And was it Tom Bilyeu who said that he's incredibly jealous? And I think that's how a lot of us felt. Uh, a lot— I mean, everybody who's— whoever they are in the career arc, they felt that, okay, this was a great case study in public and you owned it. And also the launch day and the, the stuff that happened after the launch day, and again, goes back to owning it.

Counterpoint.

And, uh, people are actually remarkably kinder than you think, Gary, right? I think people don't give people enough credit that, like, despite all the glitches, I think the Discord is buzzing and, and everybody overall felt walking away like, this was amazing.

Because the intent was there. I think a lot of times leaders, that was the lesson in that for a lot of people that I hope people took away, which is, look, there was a lot of things that happened that weren't necessarily quote unquote my fault on my fingertips, but I hired, I was part of, and I think accountability is powerful. And I don't want to tweet delaying this, sorry. Yeah. It's not fun. But those are micro missteps.

In the

long

run,

yeah. A week later here with $35 million in VeeFriends sold, people have long forgotten that it got pushed a week and that the first hour was clunky.

Love it, love it. So it brings me to what's important for consumers and buyers to keep in mind with regards to NFTs, where are just— this is a meta question, not just VeeFriends,

Yep.

What is something that people need to keep in mind? I know there's a lot of smoke now. There's a lot of hype. But what's something that's important to keep in mind as a buyer, as a consumer?

As a buyer, that 98% of these projects will probably fail. I mean, you know, that is, um, that's, that's kind of, um, sorrowing, right? Like, you know—

Kind of like the early dot-com.

That's right. As you've heard me probably repeat over and over and over, 98% of those stocks failed, but Amazon and eBay did not.

Right.

And to me, my focus is to make VeeFriends Amazon. I want it to be the project from this era. On the flip side, it's an incredible time to dabble with 0.1 ETH or things of that nature, because there's some real diamonds There's plenty of things on OpenSea right now at 0.1 ETH that are destined to be 40 ETH. Many, I actually think. Right. More than people think. So that's exciting. I also think that the macro is here to stay, and every small business influencer, podcaster like yourself needs to say, KP saying to himself, could I put out 10 NFTs and sell them for 0.1 ETH?

I was thinking about putting out like a building public NFT for the first 10 listeners or something.

I think you should. I'll tell you why. You charge 0.1 or even less. You don't have to charge the kind of— I wanted to go big. So mine was very premium. I also have outrageous levels of expenses.

Yeah.

Because you have a big team, Harry. Yeah. I mean, this thing's going to have 30, 40 employees and have incredible levels of expenses, but I think you should because you should learn, because I believe NFTs will be a marketing protocol and an asset for everyone in the long term, and I think the sooner one tastes it, the quicker they can take advantage of

it. Let me take a guess. If you were 29 today in New Jersey, this project would've been you and Sasha in the garage hacking it out together for 0.1 ETH. And then maybe offering a yearly wine membership.

That's right.

Isn't it?

100%.

I love that. I love that so much about you that hasn't changed at all, Gary. And I'm such a big fan. I'm grateful for your consistency in your character. Okay. Impact is a big word that comes to mind when I think of you. Impact over the years, we touched on that earlier, legacy. How many people do you think you've impacted over the last 2 decades of your life? What makes you wake up and do even more for them?

That's a great question. Um, a lot. And it's just, it's, it makes me emotional to think about how many. hundreds of thousands, which is just staggering. Definitely hundreds of thousands. I just have gotten enough DMs and emails to feel confident that that's right, which is just profound.

Yeah.

And is emotionally humbling to think about. What makes me wake up is a very interesting blend of selfless and selfish mixture. On the selfless side, I feel incredible gratitude to the talents I was given in mindset and communication, which is such a byproduct of who I am. On the selfish part, the more you give, the more you get.

Yeah.

And so I really believe that. I just do. I believe in the practicality of karma. I don't think it's this weird thing called karma. I think it's when you do nice things. I mean, look at this.

Right.

This is like, I mean, when I tell you the eye rolling and anxiety that I get from the people around me when I have no time, none, and have 7 trillion responsibilities. I've been off the grid for 3 weeks with VeeFriends. And now I'm back this week at VaynerX and the company needs me. And my admins, my chief of staff, they look at a meeting like this and they're like, who the fuck is KP? Why are you doing this? We need you for this staffing meeting or onboarding meeting or interview this candidate, real shit, not like hahaha. But I can never change, back to your point earlier, that I just inherently know that I need to keep giving deposits of— your podcast now is forever changed by my appearance.

Yeah.

You will be able to leverage many more guests. Zero to one.

That's right. And I mean, to your point, it's— there's some things that are micro and there are some things that are macro, right? And then to me, I almost had a 95%, um, guess rate that you would say yes.

Wow.

You know why?

Why?

That's your DNA.

Yeah.

And I think that alone puts you in a whole new stratosphere among world leaders, wherever, like all these people. And not to say that you don't value your time as much. Of course you do. And there's tons of people who— but that's why when I was talking to Lou, I was like, dude, you don't know how much this means. And I got to first send you presents because those are the people who see the effects of this. But to me, I've been waiting for a decade. I moved to the US 2011, Gary.

Wow.

I've been waiting for a decade, binge-watching your content, but not really watching it just kind of like, you know, only to consume, but applying it immediately, putting it back into code, no-code projects, side projects, and really like building myself a career path. And I'm like, okay, I had a 95% certainty that he'll say yes, because that's your DNA. And I had 100% willingness to take a no, which is what you heard from me there too. Well, I want to definitely mention this question around immigrants. A lot of your fans are immigrants. A lot of people who follow me are immigrants. Your work on amplifying immigrants and shining light on your childhood story resonated so much for years with me. As I said, I'm an immigrant too, grew up in modest conditions in India. And thanks to a magical scholarship, one person's decision in 2011 that I'm here in the US. Grateful for every day, every single day in this imperfect country that we all love dearly. What's a qualifying trait that you've inherited as an immigrant, as a young immigrant, that you look up to even today when you see the next Sasha, the next Gary, the next immigrant, and you say, yeah, it's still there?

You chopped on the one transition. I was following you the whole way. What was the beginning part of the question?

What's a quality or a trait that you've inherited that you have it in you and you see in other immigrants?

Um, perspective on the opportunity. I think one of the things immigrants have a massive advantage of is they know the alternative.

Yeah.

My incredibly awesome, epic friends who were born in this country, even if they travel a lot, you don't taste it the same way. I came from communist Russia. Even though I came when I was young, the first 15 years of my household, even though it was in America, was just unlimited conversations and stories of just treacherous sadness. Right. People dying in their 40s and 50s seemed normal. Alcoholism, because vodka consumption in Russia, suppression, antisemitism, persecution, jail time, fear, just a sheer level of— I don't think a lot of Americans realize that so many people around the world live in fear.

Right.

And judgment. And I think some of our social unrest in the US in the last decade has given people a taste of it. But the Deltas, for all the friends who are listening right now who are Americans, it's people around the world, if you have the context, it's amateur hour, our unrest, compared to around the world. So that, I think because of that, my friend, everything else flows. The inherent work ethic that comes along with understanding the opportunity, the humility. Yeah. People who are electric engineers in one country come here and wash Dishes and clean toilets. And we'll do it in a second because they're like, well, in 4 years I can.

Right.

And so I think it's that macro perspective of actual opportunity, actual opportunity, is a huge driver. And so I see it in the drive. I see it in the humility. And I see it in the gratitude and the complete lack of ego. It's that humility that I look for a lot.

Right. Because they had to start over fresh.

Correct.

Okay. So a key tenet, of course, your story is a lesson you've advocated for years and embodied yourself, document, don't create, which, you know, I think has metamorphosized into building public, at least in the tech circles. And I've embodied that. And I want to unpack that a little bit more. Why do you think most people still don't believe in document, don't create? Still don't get what makes them skeptical about it. Where are you? Where are you? What do you think that they're still on the fence of?

The concern of judgment.

Plain and simple.

Plain and simple. How does one navigate?

How does one navigate the fears of judgment in the society?

By not putting other people on a pedestal.

Their opinion.

I just don't value anybody's opinion over mine. None. Nobody. Nobody.

That's the Gary response I got. Classic. Another thing, Gary, actually you touched on perspective for—

Now real quick, real quick.

Yeah.

I think that there's unlimited amounts of people opinion, who I respect, who have more expertise and strengths in many categories than me, but not the thing that stops people. You're ugly. You're not smart. You're wrong about this. Subjective opinions on my subjective opinions. Right. And once you get to that place, it's a lot easier. I respect people's differences, but I don't their judgment of if I'm good or not. I don't need their validation.

Or permission.

Or permission.

Yeah. What's one piece of advice you would give the pre-pandemic Gary Vee?

It would be more of an affirmation because what the pandemic has done is completely affirmed so many of my beliefs. The advice I would say is Hey, you know that hunch you have that during adversity you'll be at your best, but you're not 100% sure because it's been a long time since you've had adversity and things have been good. Right. And when you were a kid and got 9/11, and then young when you got the global economy recession, and you didn't have as much to lose, so there's a percent of you that still wonders, will this new version of you, the 45-year-old version, because there's a lot more to lose, will he be different? Hey, good news, Gary. He's going to not only be not different and completely be ready to be a wartime general or a captain during rough seas, you're going to see an even stronger version of yourself. I'm incredibly comfortable with the way emotionally, mentally, operationally, as a leader, as a human, I navigated these 18 months, and it's given me a lot of, um, validation for me with myself, within myself, and incredibly remarkably prepared for the next adversity.

There was once, uh, a quote that I read. It said something like, money magnifies you, adversity reveals you.

Yeah, yeah. I'm a big— I'm a big believer that adversity, money, and fame all do pretty much the same thing, which accelerates the truth.

Right.

And I also am very detached from my own self. When I hear the accolades or the booing, I really do feel like a lot of that has to do with my parents, meaning I feel like when I get the accolades, I see that as a compliment to Tamar and Sasha Vaynerchukism. Probably more than I see it as a compliment to me. And I think there's something in that that works that I've got to spend more time talking about.

It's very interesting. You— can you unpack that a little bit more? Like, is it— is it because you think that they've done great work setting the foundation of your self-belief?

And that I'm the byproduct of them, their DNA and their parenting and their decisions. And so I kind of see my success and cheering as an incredible reflection on them. And I really share my success with them in a way that I think I've come to learn is far greater than a lot of people around me. And so I wonder if that allows me to not To your point, change, AKA, it's probably the reason I can maintain a level of humility that I do. It's also why I have such thick skin to the adversity. It's almost like I'm detached from it. It's not— my success is not my oxygen.

You're more than your accomplishments.

As a matter of fact, I would argue that my accomplishments are not things that I Really even think about. I think the process, like the game.

What is essential about you, Gary, the, the, the Gary Vee that maybe, uh, 95% of the audience don't necessarily get to see or don't, don't, don't know yet?

I'm incredibly at peace.

I can actually feel it, folks. I don't know if you— if anyone's— of course, we're not on air, but I can feel it at the receiving end.

I'm— I think most people confuse my high energy for any level— like, I think people would be flabbergasted by my levels of chill.

It reminds me of Steph Curry and the way he plays. It feels like he's having fun, He's not in the game, in a video game. It's actually in real life having as much fun every moment.

And I think to the other point of that comp is it's all slow for me. I feel like when I watch Steph and other great athletes, you can feel that the game is slow for them.

Yeah.

And I think for me, that's what's going on with life. And definitely business. It's, it's just slow.

I love that. What is your message to our Billion Public listeners and fans?

That, um, if they can build a relationship with time and realize they have a lot more time, that they will have far less anxiety. And that, using a sports analogy, if you're down by 13 going into the 4th quarter, And you win by 4, you won by 4. And a lot of people's 4th quarter, in a basketball reference and in life reference, is really ages 55 to 80. So I'd like to hear from everybody that's under 40, what are they so upset about that they haven't accomplished yet? You have more than half your life to do it.

There was a saying that you once said that I carried like a torch when I was having dark days. For, for years. And that is, you haven't lost, you're just early.

Yeah. I believe in that shit. I believe that people are just— you're just early in the process.

It lit up my nights, Gary. It just— many, many, many, many days when I was in dark places or like feeling self-doubt, I needed to hear that.

And I would hear it over and over again and wake back up.

And yeah, it was a big one for me. It really hit a lot of people. I've been Very— that, you know, you're gonna die.

Yeah.

I think really helped a lot of people because, you know, if that doesn't motivate you, right? You've got this opportunity. I think, um, I believe it. I think that's the other thing that really resonates for me. Like, what I say, I believe to the fucking death. Right. And so I think that resonates, and that's what I'm focused on, communicating things that are true To me, and and I believe are true to others.

Love that, Gary. That's it.

It's awesome, man.

This is this is it. I I just had a few heart-to-heart questions for you, and I I almost it's funny because I almost could rehearse what you were going to say. That's how consistent you've been over fifteen years.

Thank you, my friend. I've got to run. I apologize. Okay.

Thank you so much, and I want to say once again thank you. Bye, Gary.

Got it. Bye bye.