Episode 7 with Aadit Sheth and Sahil Patel

Hello everybody. Welcome to Build in Public podcast. I'm your host KP, and today I'm joined by 2 incredibly talented, young, hungry, and probably the fastest rising, um, Build in Public creators on Twitter. Now, welcome to the show, Adit and Sahil.

Thank you so much, KP. Thank you.

So let's go around and do quick intros. Adit, if you don't mind, kick us off with what was your story? Who are you? What were you doing, you know, before you got into this Twitter journey?

Yeah, yeah, sure. First of all, thank you so much for the lovely introduction. Hey guys, I'm Adit. I'm a first-year mechanical engineer in London. Oh yeah, I'm a first-year undergraduate and in my free time, I love just, you know, just like creating on Twitter, creating content threads regarding marketing and content creation and just like the creator life. And this is one of my ways that I like to empower other creators regardless of how big they are, even big, small creators. And yeah, I mean, how my journey started was I spent a lot of time, let's say, you know, in COVID, during the lockdown, I spent a lot of time consuming content. Some of my favorite creators are like Ali Abdaal, Thomas Frank, you know, those productivity YouTubers on the internet. And I thought, how about I can convert this consumption into production? How about I can also build a community, a small community of mine, just maybe 1,000 people, 500 people that are genuinely interested in what I'm creating and the value that I'm able to provide. Right, and nowhere, nowhere near when I started, I thought that I'd be able to empower so many other people and build a community so strong and such an engaging community. And yeah, I've just loved every part of it. Now I just try to empower other creators and just like kind of building my community, community as we go.

I love that. Sahil, what about you?

So Like I am a second-year undergraduate student at Institute of Technology, Nirma University. So I first joined Y Combinator Startup School and I came to know about Twitter so that someone created a thread on YC community, drop your Twitter profile. So like I created my Twitter account in 2017, but when I joined YC Startup School, Uh, then I found that, uh, people are documenting their journey on Twitter. So I, I also like, I, I also started tweeting consistently and started following right accounts. And, uh, yeah, so that's how, uh, I started with my journey on Twitter.

So my, uh, my first question to both of you about Twitter is when did you start like being active on Twitter? Like, do you remember? Because I have— I've had Twitter for like 10 years, right? But I used it for all the wrong reasons. I was doing movie reviews, I was doing like, you know, mindless random crap. But I became much more intentional in October 2018. And from there, my real journey started. So what is that like for both of you?

So like, for me, I started to I've been tweeting consistently from November 2020.

Wow, that's less than a

year. Yeah.

You had an official Twitter account from when? 2017, when you were active on Twitter?

Yeah, I started active on Twitter from— Yeah,

I mean, it's something similar for me as well. It's some— sorry, sorry for interrupting, but it's something similar for me as well. I think I started in October 2020 and yeah, it's a similar story to his as well. Like I was just, I was listening to podcasts. I was running quite a bit at that time and I was listening to podcasts. And as I said earlier as well, you know, I was a big fan of Ali Abdaal who has a podcast himself and his brother actually is a big fan of Twitter and just like making connections, building friendships on Twitter. And I'm like, okay, I mean, he's brought it up on one podcast. Okay, makes sense. And then he said it multiple times on different podcasts. And I was like, there must, there definitely must be something, you know, um, something powerful going on in that space that I'm not aware of and I have to check out and just made an account, started tweeting maybe, maybe once in a week, uh, which clearly didn't work out. And then I saw, I kind of got, uh, the pattern. I realized what other creators on Twitter were doing right. And, uh, yeah, I would say October, October 2020 was when I started taking this seriously.

Both of you again, um, def— still less than a year and it's so impressive. to see how far you've grown. And it's been fun to watch from my end. We're all like Twitter neighbors because I've seen your work and you've seen my work. So that brings me to another Twitter question, which is a lot of people struggle to get the first 1,000 followers. And it almost is like a slog. You just have to put out more quantity and not judge yourself, not try to overthink it, you know, just like keep trying. Um, I'm curious to hear about like your first 1,000 followers journey. Like what were some things you did, um, that you wouldn't recommend? And what were some things that you did that you would recommend for somebody new?

So like I would start first, so I would, uh, like make— if you want, if you're starting on Twitter, so first make an attractive profile. And write in bio, like what what is a profession and get a pro banner. And after that, use the pinned tweet to tell your followers what you can do for them. So that is very useful. And find popular account in your niche who have more than ten thousand plus followers and identify people. Who are replying, uh, who engage often in the reply section, and follow these smaller accounts and engage with them. So like, uh, that's how— so this is very useful. And, and try finding your true fans, 100 true fans, and see people, uh, who, who are engaging with your tweet. So like, uh, uh, they are the true fans and they will engage more if you follow Right.

So I mean, this emphasis on engagement and it seems like, you know, be present on other leaders in the niche, their threads. So what are things that you wouldn't do, Sahil? Like what were things you did back then and you don't recommend? It's like, it's not working. It's not worth doing them now.

So like what most of the people do is they consume more. and are not creating. So I would, uh, I wouldn't recommend like consuming more. Create more than you consume,

right?

And, and second thing is like, uh, I have seen some people, uh, like to get some more followers, what people do is, uh, like mention big accounts' name, like, uh, and they are— these are the top list, top 10 list of followers account who tweet about startup. And if they retweet it Then then boom, you will get a lot of followers. But don't do this type of thing, like don't mention all the like big accounts to get engagement, and don't put your profile in private mode. So I have seen lots of people doing that also.

Right,

agreed.

What what about you, Adit? Have fun. That's definitely important. What about you, Aditya? What were, um, your sort of challenges going to the, going through the first, uh, $0 to $1,000 journey and things you did you recommend, things you did you don't recommend?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So, uh, I completely agree with everything that Saheel has said. You know, Saheel is crushing it on Twitter and he definitely knows what he's doing. One thing that, um, one thing that I did was, uh, definitely not the route to go through was like writing a lot of threads. And I would kind of like put this all under one saying, just like tweeting into the void. No matter how, you know, amazing quality or like a quality writer that you are, but if you don't have followers or if you don't have people that are looking at you, you won't have like a tight feedback loop. So you won't be improving quickly. Right. And you just won't get high engagement. So you'd be putting all of this effort, but it's not benefiting anyone. Now I have seen examples where people with like low number of followers, like for example, uh, Sahil Bloom, he didn't have a lot of followers when his first thread went viral. Uh, but that too, that was like a special case. He put it under one of Chamath's tweets and Chamath retweeted it. So, you know, it doesn't happen to everyone basically. Um, right. So definitely if you want to go through the, through the more, uh, consistent and more like, um, you know, foolproof way of going about growing on Twitter, it'd definitely be, you know, just try to reply under tweets and try to uh, get more profile clicks. So get, get attention on your profile and then have some tweets at least every single day, uh, to show that the person who's approaching your profile that you're providing value consistently. So that's one thing. Um, I think—

What was like, if you, if you have to recall, what was like one specific thing that in the early days that you did that actually gave you like an edge, you think?

Yeah. So for me, um, one of those things that I did that gave me an edge was I wasn't afraid of getting on Zoom calls. You know, in the, in the, in the beginning, it might be, uh, quite intimidating, these people on the internet that you don't even know. And I'm like, what? I was 18, 19, 18 back then. And why, why should I get on a Zoom call with like people that are 25, 30? And just like, you know, so, but, um, I wasn't afraid of that. I was just like, you know, it's a Zoom call. Uh, I've been following this person's content for a month now. So I know that they're trustworthy. I know what they're putting out is high value. I'm I want to learn more from them. I think, uh, in the early, early stages, what I was doing is I was going with the mindset of, I want to learn something from them. I want to take 15, 20 minutes of their time. If I were to go back, I'd probably think of it as a value transaction rather than just like gaining value for myself. You know, that's a very selfish way to go about it. Uh, think of it from what are they gaining? Like, is it, is it some monetary value? Are you investing in their, in their product? Are you buying their product and then asking for a call or Are you also providing some type of value? Like, are you doing some minor, even minor work for them? So if I were to go back, I'd do that right now. I do more of that. So right now, if I'm getting called on a call with someone, I'd try to provide value equally, or even like, I would wish I could provide even more value to them, you know? Right. So that's how I see it.

Yeah. That's always the way, right? Just offer value upfront, you know, and with no ROI, no expectations. And, you know, people will always want to, you know, have you around because you're a value giver. So back to you, Sahil, you were going to say something about one specific thing you did.

Yeah. So like I was adding that giveaway free stuff on Twitter. Like people love free stuff. So we'll reply, like if you can do this hand waving trick, reply with waving hand and you will get some free stuff. So you, so yeah. So like people are more interested in those types of things. And building public, building in public, and, uh, share thoughts and ideas about, uh, like, uh, what are you thinking about. And with that, gain traction usually are catchy and interesting topics being talked about. And right, I studied a lot. I studied which type of tweet and thread go viral. So like, I, I reverse engineer those tweets And craft a system for writing tweets. So that's probably a lot.

So I actually have a follow-up on that, which is one thing that, you know, all 3 of us can attest to is that the secret sauce of Twitter is not very secret. It is consistency, right? A lot of people tweet once a month, once a week, and they're like, KP, why don't I have followers? And I'm like, have you tweeted the last 30 days? And you look at, they have, 8 tweets. And I'm like, so do you expect the world to follow you because you had 8 masterpieces? Like, what do you mean? Right? So in terms of consistency, I'm curious, what is your routine? Right? Adit, like, how do you view consistency on Twitter? We'll start with Adit, then we'll come to you, Sahil. How do you view consistency? What is your consistency routine today?

Yeah, so I mean, I've always been quite a structural dude. Like, I don't like to tweet on the fly. Like I want to know like a week in advance that my next week, you know, is all planned out. Like even if I'm maybe out one day with a friend or if I've got some other work from university and I can't, I know I won't be able to, I don't want to have that kind of, those kind of thoughts going on in my mind. So one week before every Sunday or Saturday I choose, and I just like schedule all my tweets using Typefully or HypeFury. You can use anything that you like. And I know that one week in advance, I've got all my content scheduled. Obviously, I'm on Twitter a lot. And I do tweet on the fly sometimes. But usually everything is scheduled one week.

And in terms of how many frequency, like how many tweets do you aim to fire off per day or per week?

So, so this is obviously, it's going to depend on where you are in the, in the Twitter growth journey. So in the beginning, I used to have maybe five tweets a day, which is now that I think about it's quite draining a lot of energy. But right now, I'm at about I think fifteen or sixteen thousand followers. I think I tweet about two times a day, which seems to be the the hotspot. So it tends to get good engagement like that.

Nice. What about you, Sahil?

So like I tweet. 3 to 4 times per day, and I engage more with smaller accounts. And about consistency, I create content in advance when I was listening to any podcast or watching any YouTube videos or reading blogs or newsletter. So when I get some more ideas, like, uh, if I get 10 to 15 ideas, then I will distribute, uh, in different days. Like, I will tweet 3 to 4 ideas Today, and then after tomorrow, tomorrow, and like, yeah, that's what I do.

So in terms of documentation, while you're listening to either podcasts or let's say you're reading a newsletter, like what do you use? Do you use Notion, Evernote? Like what's your system? Notion. Okay.

All right.

Okay, cool. So I also want to like sort of zoom out a little bit and we were talking tactics, but let's talk a little bit about, you know, the selection of Twitter as the distribution channel. I think a lot of people that come into my orbit or, you know, people who like want to build in public, they always ask me like, what is the best channel to, you know, build in public? And I say, you can try all these other channels. You should be present. wherever you want to be present, but always, always have some presence on Twitter. And so that's my belief, you know, because it sort of gives you direct access to the world's top talent and bright, you know, bright minds. I'm curious about what is, uh, how would you, uh, answer this? Like, why would you recommend Twitter? Um, and what's unique about it from sort of your story?

Yeah. So, so in my opinion, so I have, I see 2 ways. Um, one way I'd like to, I went into Twitter was because, you know, you just have access to, as you said, so many bright minds. on the platform that are tweeting their ideas, just what they're just— can you imagine like one morning they're just having an idea and just with a couple of taps you can, you understand or you get a glimpse of what they're thinking that morning. So I think that's super valuable. And another follow-up on that is you have access to their DMs. A lot of people actually still keep their DMs open because they look at it as like a stepping stone to new opportunities. They want to meet new people, they want to see what young minds and like other minds, new minds are thinking. About their content and other possibilities as well. So that's one. Um, number 2 is I think email is still— I've been listening to a lot of podcasts and a lot of like, you know, super, uh, super established people on Twitter talk about how email is still, you know, it's not dead for sure. Like a lot of sales have been, uh, made using email and are still being made using email. I think email is good for like building a personal relationship with your customers, but I think if If you're looking for that virality or if you're looking for engagement and that chance of something just popping off, Twitter, due to Twitter's algorithm, like something that is good and is appreciated by your audience is going to perform well. I'm not saying it's going to go viral, but it's going to perform well to an extent, right? And that's just inviting newer people into your audience. So that's something that's unattainable in email. So your email list suddenly can't go viral unless you like give out a free product, which is like a lead magnet, but it's much easier to do that on Twitter. So those are the 2 reasons why I think getting on this platform is super high leverage for you. One, you get access to, you know, so many cool minds, and 2, you have that virality aspect where you can, you never know what's gonna happen with your product, with your business, with your ideas.

Right. What about you, Sahil? Why Twitter?

Like, uh,

why would you recommend it?

Why Twitter? So like, first is crazy organic reach, and I think, uh, Twitter have low competition because only 1% of account have, uh, more than 1,000 followers, and mostly, uh, conversational text-based and high educational users. So you won't find novel using LinkedIn. And it allows you to connect to generally smart people and enables you to get quicker access to advice, mentorship from those you may look up to as their profile gives you validation that you, that you are doing. And if you're looking to raise VC money, it is a pitch in itself that you write automatically. Like I have seen some account like Dom, like he's doing something like Thread. in which, if you're looking for funding, then reply to this tweet and we help you get your startup funded. So yeah, so that's how in the long run it can attract not only VCs but also acquire microfunding if you ever consider selling, of course. And also like founder of Gumroad, Sai Lavingia, he also started building in public and he raised via crowdfunding. So like, not— so he raised money by crowdfunding. So it helps a lot.

Yeah, definitely. I remember that story, which you're referring to, you know, Gumroad, they had a crowdfunding campaign on Republic, you know, and most of the people came from Twitter. So you mentioned an interesting element, which is you can sort of cross paths with really brilliant minds that you wouldn't find like on LinkedIn or YouTube or, or Link, um, TikTok. And, uh, and the interaction is so different. Like, you know, for example, like if you're— let's say you drop a comment under— like, first of all, people like Naval are not on TikTok. Um, you know, people like Jack Butcher and all that, they're not on TikTok. But let's say you find someone, um, I don't know, some Gen Z founder on TikTok, but When you drop in the comments and you sort of try to build a relationship, it's so different. I don't know what it is. It just feels like it feels a little bit. I don't know. It just feels superficial as opposed to you know DMing them on Twitter and sort of offering you know your insights or something that they said and you're trying to like you know add value to their you know content. It just it's a different interaction. So in terms of crossing paths with influential people. Do you have any stories that, you know, you feel really special about? Like that was a fun moment, or that was a great anecdote, sort of crossing paths with influential people.

So for me, mine's probably not as glamorous as you might think, but I'm sure you know Brandon Zhang. On Twitter,

yes,

and he's working. He works at Architech, by the way. Context, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, so Brandon. So I think I was at maybe 500 followers, and he was maybe ten times as big as I was. And you know how how we talked earlier on the podcast? I was just saying how in the beginning when I was getting on calls, I was going with the approach of I want to grab as much value as I can from them. And I wasn't thinking from their perspective, what are they getting out of it? Right. So that's what I did to Brandon, which, uh, even till this day I feel bad about. Um, turns out— I'm sure he'll—

I'm sure he won't mind because he's such a good guy. Yeah.

You know, he's so amazing. And then, um, and then yeah, we got on a call, still don't understand why he agreed. And then, uh, I started growing really quickly, started, you know, then I, then I understood, okay. Uh, when you're asking someone for their time or their attention or something, you have to provide value. Uh, in return. So I started providing value. I started talking to him way more, giving him insights, you know, engaging with his content. Then I started growing very quickly. Uh, then we obviously, we came, we became from just like kind of people that have talked on Zoom to actual friends. And now we're actual friends. We're working on a project together, which, uh, I'm not, uh, fully, fully, uh, able to talk about right now. Uh, I haven't got permission from him, but, uh, yeah, I mean, we're working on a project together, which is just insane to think about how you know, less than a year ago, I got, I just asked him for a call and still don't know why he agreed. And now we're able to work together and like actually be friends from on the other side of the world, you know? So that's pretty cool.

I love that. And shout out Brandon, if you're listening. Um, so anyway, so Sahil, what about you?

So like, uh, I was engaging with, uh, one of the managing partners of VC fund, like engaging on their tweet, and they found me and they DM'd and he DM'd me. And like, yeah, so he started talking about what are you working on and what is my project and what are my projects and about my project. And after some time, like, we also talked about, like, I was thinking to start a student-led VC fund. for the student by the student. So he also gave me lots of advice because he also runs a— he also runs a student-led VC fund in Canada. So yeah, it helped me a lot.

Awesome. There are always, there are always these happy coincidences on Twitter that lead to, you know, a great relationship, to great business opportunities. I feel like a lot of what I do And I'm sure you can resonate with this. Maybe 90% of my success came from Twitter in many ways in the last 3 years, be it connections, connections to VCs and founders, and just even my job at On Deck, as you know, I got it on Twitter, through Twitter, by Twitter. So it's been a great ride. So let's talk about Sort of the challenges that many creators face, especially when they're maybe new to Twitter or maybe they're not as self-disciplined in focusing on creating than consuming. One of the traps that you can fall into if you are consuming all the time is you get pulled into these Twitter fights. Eric Torenberg, who's founder of On Deck, calls them Twitter can be one of two things. It can be either a civil war where people are fighting with each other and it's just very ugly, or it could be a quiet Starbucks coffee shop and you can just like hang out with friends and like, you know, be around other curious people. And so what are your tips on, like, what is your, first of all, what is your perspective on the other side of Twitter? And how do you make sure that, you know, you stay sane, you know, you don't, you don't go to, you don't get trapped by it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a great question. So I think I do something, um, that is, that is not like completely, you know, unique. Uh, you might see Naval do it. So Naval doesn't follow, um, anyone, right. But he has lists. So what I do is I follow quite a few people, but I have a list with, um, I have a couple of lists categorizing all of these people into, into different categories, right. Different sections. And that's how I do it. So I know that these people that I've kind of categorized, that I've curated, they all are high-quality people. They don't get into fights and they're tweeting there generally. They're tweeting, you know, in their niche. So they're not going too much into politics or sports or things I don't want to learn about. So that's one way I tackle this. But I guess a disadvantage of this is kind of sometimes, sometimes I get DM'd like a thread that has gone completely viral by someone that I don't know. And I'm like, whoa, I didn't see that ever. But that's because I don't go on the homepage a lot. I just go to my Twitter list, you know? So that's one disadvantage. Sometimes you don't see the best of the best, like viral tweets, but I think I'm ready to take that, that trade-off for getting, you know, consistently like receiving high-quality people's content. And I'm fine with that. So that's one way I tackle it. And as to answer your question about what I think of the other side and how I engage with them, I generally just don't. And like, if I, if I see something that I, um, don't agree with, I generally just skip over. I don't try to, you know, put like negative comments or counterarguments in the, in the comments of other people. That's just how it happens.

You don't, you don't need to add to the cynicism, or it feels like it's already a burning fire. I feel the same way. Sometimes there are things that are already like a burning dumpster fire. And I'm like, I have nothing to add here. It's already in flames, you know? Uh, and if I'm not helping the case, it's pointless for me to be here. Um, what about you, Sahil?

So like, I don't follow any political account. Uh, I follow people who I admire, and, uh, and I don't miss out on a day engaging and communicating, communicating with them. Uh, that's how it, uh, helps me a lot. And, uh, when I engage with them, so I engage with value, uh, learn, uh, how to add value in in their comments and sometimes engage with humor too. But yeah, for those, I don't follow any political account or if I don't find any value they are providing.

So that leads me to, again, on the same topic, a little bit of a different question, which is how do you deal with haters or sort of like naysayers, critics, you know, who may be reading what you're saying out of context, or maybe they're twisting it to, you know, to make it seem much more outrageous? Like, how do you handle haters?

Yeah, so for me, yeah, for me, luckily, I haven't had to experience, you know, any of those like super, super tragic or super intense hating comments or anything of that sort. I have received, you know, everyone, everyone at some point in their journey is going to receive some hate comments where people don't agree with you. That's completely fine. Just like either skip over it, or if you actually, if it's like a hate comment on your, one of your tweets and you have a logical reply, don't try to like intensify the fight or like the disagreement. I think there's no point in that because just, just think about it. Why would you want to argue with someone over the internet? where it's so difficult to communicate properly, you know, like you're not going to get on a call with them and explain to them. It's just a waste of your time. So I usually just skip over it. And as I said, yeah, fortunately I haven't had to experience anything that's super intense. One of my friends has had to, and what he did to like tackle it is— was— and it wasn't just one person, it was kind of like a group of people that were getting on him. He just took a break from Twitter for a few days, which is completely acceptable, you know, like Um, your mental health and like your mental peace of mind, that's, that's more important than any, any metric or any type of engagement. So, um, luckily I haven't had to experience it, maybe in the future, but, uh, at least I'll know, have some experience, you know, how to tackle it.

Gotcha. Sahil, what about you?

So like I usually DM them, like if their DMs are open, so like, uh, and I ask, uh, what is their problem and, uh, why you are disagreeing with me. So like, it helps me find like, what are their perspective. And yeah, so like most of the people do for getting engagement so that they can get more engagement. That's why they disagree, I think.

Right. Yeah, slam dunking unfortunately is very hot in demand, right? It feels like an easy way to sort of get eyeballs. So we talked about Twitter, Twitter growth principles. I want to understand like, what are some myths about growing on Twitter that you may have run into and you feel like, hey, that's a myth. It's not really how it works. Maybe one or two examples you have of popular Twitter myths that you think that, yeah, it's not true.

Uh, yeah, that's a, that's a great question. I'm just thinking, I think, yeah, obviously hashtags, um, not a— I think, I think larger accounts, they have definitely figured this out for themselves because they've been on the platform for so long. They know that hashtags don't work. But I, till this date, I get maybe, you know, 1 person or 2 people every single day asking me if hashtag— like in the DMs asking me if hashtag— they should be using hashtags to get more reach. Um, I just advise that.

I also— that comes from Sorry, I think that also comes from LinkedIn. Uh, some of the LinkedIn, uh, the algorithm of— I think LinkedIn's algorithm somehow encourages hashtags and you just get more visibility that way. But on Twitter, it's almost a buzzkill. Like, it's almost like— absolutely, unless you definitely need— maybe use it occasionally.

But

yeah, I, I have the same problem. Like, a lot of people DM me and they're like, hey, like, look at my tweet and there's like 15 hashtags. I'm like, what are you doing, man? Where's the content? Everything is hashtag. So,

um,

but yeah,

I think, I think there's only one hashtag that I've seen, uh, working a bit. It's called #100DaysOfNoCode. Um, there's some people that are using it. They've got a really strong community. So people are, you know, constantly engaging with each other and helping each other grow, which is fine. But usually, you know, I've seen hashtags, they don't, they don't add, uh, if not even, as you said, you know, it's about skills. So, um, that's one thing. Um, another one is, I think we mentioned this earlier as well, just kind of mentioning 10 different accounts and hoping for retweets. And that's not going to work as well. Even if it works, it'll get you followers. It won't like build affinity between you and your audience. It's not gonna, it's not gonna help with long-term engagement, long-term relationships with your, with your audience. So I would avoid that as well.

Awesome. Yeah, I think that, that it's just one of the rookie mistakes. Even I used to make that just with the hashtags too. Mentioning Paul Graham or Naval every second time, it's going to tire them out. And now I'm on the receiving end where people just tag me and I'm like, I have nothing to do with this tweet. I understand when you mention someone, let's say if you have a real genuine gratitude or you have something that you— there's an admiration there or something that you felt was life-changing. Occasionally it's fine. But for every damn tweet, if you tag busy people, And for them, it's no value. I think it's just, it's very spammy. It's a rookie mistake and we've all been there. So not judging anyone, but it's just, don't do that. What about you, Sahil? What are some myths?

So I think don't use hashtag if you have less than 1,000, if you have more than 1,000 followers, but you can use hashtag for reach if you have less than 1,000 followers, But don't use more than 1 or 2 hashtags. You can use like, if you want any book recommendation, so you can, what is your favorite marketing book? And you can use hashtag marketing Twitter. Right.

Or even Build in Public, right? Some people use hashtag Build in Public. I think 1 or 2, I think are enough. Just don't overdo it.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, exactly. If I may, if I may add something, um, I think, yeah, I see a recurring theme between all 3 of us. So, you know, as KP said earlier, like, you— we all have made the same mistakes, right, with like using multiple hashtags. And so that's, that's— I've seen Sahil— we, I mean, we all have made mistakes. I remember in my personal journey as well, used to tweet into the void, you know, I talked about all my mistakes. But I think we all are like quick learners, or at least, um, I'd like to think I'm a quick learner. Maybe Maybe I overestimate myself, but, um, yeah, I mean, I learned from my mistakes. I see what other people are doing really well. Uh, as I speak, I'm remembering one of Chamath's interviews where he said, just be a good copier. You know, have you— I'm sure you've seen this on, uh, just be a good copier. Just see what the best of the best are doing on Twitter. Like go for the Habelegs, go for the Dickie Bushes, go for the Jack Butchers and see what they're doing and how you can implement. Don't just straight up copy their content. Uh, I'm definitely not advising that. I'm saying see what they're doing and trying to implement their tactics into yours. So I think us 3 were good at doing that.

Right. And can we sort of elaborate a little bit? Because I think this leads me to my next question, which is formats on Twitter. Um, and you know, tweet formats and thread formats. And I think, uh, that's something that, you know, early on I tried to be too precious about my ego and I was like, okay, if there's, let's say, Sahil Lavingia's tweets, he has a certain format or Jack Butcher has a certain format or Naval. And I was like, oh, I'm not going to sound like them. I'm going to be like me. My voice is so important in the world. And so my formats were all sort of my own custom form and none of them worked because I had only 1,000 followers. And so at that level, you cannot sort of create a whole format. You can't invent a format when you are irrelevant on Twitter. So over time I learned that it's no harm if I took Blake Kamal's format or Jack Butcher's and say, Here's what it's so clean. What's working about this format? It's very clean. There's like some visual element to Jack Butcher, for example, and he's speaking about the niche that he's focused on in a very elegant, clear manner. Why can't I do this for my own tiny niche? You know, and the more I did this, the more it worked. And so now I think at a stage where I am, I'm sure all of you are now, once in a while I experiment with a new format. You know, for example, I started a thing called Good Idea or Bad. And I usually write like my random dumb thoughts, but like they're very ambitious thoughts. I say things like, what if there's LinkedIn, like paid LinkedIn? And it's a very ambitious sort of like dig at something as big as LinkedIn. But that thought invites engagement because I'm asking, I'm also declaring it's a good idea or bad. I don't know. So if you want to say it's a bad idea, I'm fine. Right. And that's become like my marquee signature. Like I'm doing more of those these days, getting really high engagement. So back to you, let's discuss a little bit more on formats. Like what have you learned about this world of tweet formats?

Yeah, definitely. So I agree with 2 of your points that you said earlier, you know, just keep it relevant, stay to your, stick with your niche because that's what your audience is expecting from you. When they see your profile, they don't even read your name now. They just like see your profile, they see your content, right? So just stick to your niche, that's going to invite engagement. And number 2 was, yeah, just keep it elegant. Keep it as simple to— like nobody wants to scroll through their Twitter and then just see a big chunk of text, right? That's really difficult to comprehend. Someone would rather go and go through their pocket, like Instapaper articles or something. They wouldn't go through Twitter, right? Right. So that's something I stick by. I try to space out my tweets and just make them easy to read. In terms of specific formats, Um, I think again, Sahil was talking about this earlier, you know, like the, the, the tweets that ask, ask the audience to like put a wave emoji or something below, and then you DM them something personally, like a GIF or— so I learned that from Blake. Um, Yeah. Uh, I think he did that when he was quite small, but I picked up on that and then I started implementing that. And then I made a free product talking about how to get more engagement on your tweets. And now when people are doing it, they— I get DMs all the time saying, thank you for introducing me to this technique. And I tell them like, I wasn't the originator, right? Like I learned this from Blake. But it's because he was doing it when he was so small that people don't remember and they think I created it. So, um, uh, yeah, I mean, so that's, that's one of the formats that I've kind of stolen from Blake. And, uh, he's, you know, with his content, he's always like, dude, feel free to steal all my content, you know, steal my, uh, format. So that's something that I picked up, uh, picked up on and has worked well for me.

Uh, thanks for sharing that. And you, you, you can't be too precious about the formats. It's like so lame. In fact, I think you can't be precious about even your hashtags or anything like it's people. And in many ways, Twitter is sort of a way to create movements. And so if you want a movement in your niche, you want other people to adapt it. Like, that's the whole point, you know, and you can't be too precious about attached to your format because, you know, that's how we all learn. So back to you, Sahil, what are your thoughts on Twitter formats? What's something that you experimented with?

Most of what most of the people do is like they use trending format. Like if anything is trending, 2 friends in a room, they might, and then after continue and then different format. Like, yeah, so like they use their own words and 2 co-founders in a room, they might get. So like they use this type of format more, like most of the people copy and change last, last change, last word. And I have seen some people also ask questions, uh, like, uh, people love to answer questions, especially when it is on topic that can be highly talked about or something that is, uh, debatable, uh, so something like, uh, Clubhouse or Twitter Space. And, uh, yeah, so, and I also seen fill-in-the-blank type of question, uh, like growing an account trick. Why fill in the blank? And so like this type of format also people use, like fill in the blank.

Is there, uh, I'm curious, Sahil, is there a—

And like if, if, if anyone is giving any—

I'm curious, is there a database of some of these formats that you personally have? Aditya, do you have some? Because I have a Notion document with some of my favorite tweets, you know, with like format styles. Uh, and I go back to it once in a while, but is there, do you also do the same thing, both of you?

So my, my first, uh, free product on Twitter was actually related to this. It was like a swipe file that I remember you, you dropped in some money as well, which I still appreciate by the way. Um, yeah. So that was, that was about kind of like formats, kind of successful tweets that have worked for me and may possibly work for other people, you know? So that I have that, I haven't updated that in a while. Because I'm working on, you know, other products, but looking to do that soon. I've got that. And I'm sure that the one that, you know, the database that you've created is superb as well. So if you don't mind, please, can you share that with me? It's gonna give me some inspiration.

I think I should probably make it public because I— it's been sitting and rotting in my private. What about you, Sahil?

So like, I am also thinking to create a database of formats, but But yeah, so like I don't have a database or format yet, but I think yeah, so that type of tweet work what Adit said, what that type of tweet worked really well. Like reply with waving hand and you will get a free book or something like that, or retweet this tweet and you will get one month free or two months free. So like this type of tweet worked really well.

Right. Okay. So, um, my next question is who are some accounts or people that you follow and you admire in the building public space?

Yeah, so definitely, uh, one of you is, is one of the accounts that I admire is you, cause you know, you're like kind of the building public guy. So, uh, definitely learning a lot from you. Um, I would say Blake, Blake Emil, he's doing a phenomenal job. He's literally, you know, documenting his entire CMO journey on Twitter and we're getting to learn a lot and it's just, machine, man. Like, you know, how many credits turning out. It's crazy. It's crazy.

I wonder what Rick eats for breakfast. I want to know what he eats for breakfast.

Dude, he should, he should, um, yeah, whatever he does, he should market for that. And he probably makes more money through that if he marketed it. But, um, Blake, um, and then I would say, yeah, Alex, uh, Alex Garcia. He's, um, I think handling the social side of The Hustle.

Hustle, yeah.

Yeah. So he's doing a great job as well, you know, building in public, talking about marketing and just like churning out those marketing threads, which I'm learning a lot from. Let me just— her name's Amanda. I don't want to mess up anyone's last name. So I just say the first name now. Yeah. She's, you know, she's killing it on Twitter as well, getting to learn a lot from her. And yeah, Vensi, she works at On Deck. Um, and she's just so inspirational. She's working a lot, especially during the COVID time. And I reached out to her saying like, you know, if I can help you out in any way. She's super kind. And even before we met at Shoutout, she was giving me a lot of advice because she's, uh, you know, consultant, works with a lot of students. So before that, she invested a lot of time in me, helped me out in the DMs. So forever grateful for her as well.

Sahil, what about you?

So like, firstly, I would recommend Some people. First is you, you are truly an inspiration. And, uh, second is Paul Vaikobain, founder of Copy AI. He's sharing every milestone, uh, MRR, uh, what is Copy.ai a month, monthly recurring revenue, uh, and all that, and sharing all his lessons in public. And Arvid Kahl, he also inspired me a lot, uh, he's sharing also great lessons, and he wrote Zero to Sold Gotcha.

All right. So my last question, what is— so first of all, 2 things. Do you have a specific metric or a specific target for 2021? You know, like a certain number of followers, certain number of impressions that you want to hit? And that's one question. The part 2 is, what is your long-term goal? You know, the long horizon? In who do you want to become? Not just Twitter, just generally, like a founder, creator, VC, what's your long-term horizon goal?

Yeah, so that's 2 great questions. So for me, in terms of goals, I know a lot of people, you know, don't put goals on follower accounts and stuff. I think it's fun to gamify this. I've learned this from Sean Puri, you know, the host of My First Million pod. Uh, I think it's fine putting numbers. So I want to get to 100,000 followers, which as I speak is quite funny. I'm saying this, but 100,000 followers by the end of, uh, well, in one year's time, like not by the end of, but in one year's time, which, uh, I think is, is a crazy goal, but, um, still something that's not, you know, completely out of my reach. So I might be able to get it. Let's see.

Um, there's a follow-up there actually. Um, are you tracking people who've done that recently? Cause I think that's one of the specific uh, things that you, you may be benefiting from, like, you know, you can benefit from, is watching who's done it recently. And I think Sahil Bloom did— he went very quickly from, you know, like $10-20K to now $200K. But, um, are there others that you're tracking you want to share?

Yeah, so, um, I think I'm not tracking people that have gone past— obviously Sahil, Julian, Sean Puri, TheSampars, I think about to, or he has already. Um, but I'm tracking people that are going to go in the next, you know, 2 months. So, uh, Dickie Bush, uh, Chris, who's a good friend of mine, uh, his surname is also something very difficult to pronounce, so I won't try. But, um, yeah, uh, so I'm tracking these people and, um, right now, so 100,000 followers in a year's time, that's kind of my goal. And in terms of what I want to be in the future, I think, uh, creating content just on the internet. Be it YouTube, which is, you know, I've heard is really difficult to grow, but if you have an audience on one platform, it's transferable. So, um, if I want to, you know, start a YouTube channel and, uh, talk about my experiences over there, uh, I'll have a better base than just starting from zero, you know, on the internet. So that's my kind of vision for the next few years.

I love that. A mechanical engineer turned content creator, you know?

Lovely. Yeah.

That is the future to me of, of the creator economy, you know. Um, so, so, so exciting. What about you, Sahil?

So like, I don't want so many followers, but, uh, I want follow from people who I admire. Uh, like, uh, I want to follow from, uh, Sahil Bloom because I think quality over quantity. Uh, so I think, uh, if, if Elon, if Elon follows me, then it means a lot that, uh, like I need nothing. Like, yeah, so like, uh, I think quality matters a lot for me, uh, than quantity. So like if any other influential people follow me, that, so that it means a lot. Like 10 or 15 people who I admire, uh, if they follow me, then it means a lot to me, uh, than having 10,000 or 20,000.

So shout out Elon Musk. If Elon, you're listening to this podcast, in the rare, in the rare chance that you might be listening to this other podcast, you know, please give a follow to Sahil. Um, so what is your long-term, um, you know, goals, Sahil? Who do you want to become?

So like, uh, I want to become a venture capitalist and also founder. I want to solve daily life problems people are facing in their daily life. Problems people are facing in their daily lives and want to make an impact.

Awesome. Love that. Okay. That's it. That's the end of our session. Really enjoyed chatting with you both. Thanks for spending your time here on this podcast. And I sincerely wish both of you hit the 100K goal, Aditya, and Sahil, the follow from Elon Musk, or maybe the 10 people you admire. But in the longer run, I personally genuinely wish that you both become the kind of people you want to become. So excited for that. And with that, it's a wrap and we'll catch you again on another episode. Thanks, everybody. Bye.