Why You Need To Be A Part of A Community Right Now (feat. Gina Bianchini)

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Building Public podcast. I'm your host, KP, and I am super, super thrilled to kick off 2023 with an awesome guest here, Gina Bianchini. Welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Gina, for the folks who haven't heard about her, she's the founder and CEO of Mighty Networks, which you may have heard of because I know a lot of you folks are in the community space like me. Mighty is a platform that makes it easy to grow and monetize online communities. Mighty is the result of nearly 2 decades of Gina's career spent building online social networks back to the early 2000s when she built Ning with Marc Andreessen. And she's been building community and social spaces ever since. She was the first EIR at Andreessen Horowitz, which is crazy to think about it. And she was also, of course, the co-founder and CEO of Ning. She's also an author. She just published her book, Purpose, and a bunch of appearances on media, CNN, Charlie Rose. I'm a huge fan of Charlie and so on. Gina, you're a powerhouse. I don't know where to start this, but I think the topic that you and I bond on and connect on is community. And I know it's very close to you, close to your heart. Tell us about, from your lens, the topic that we were talking just before we got online around the difference between the nuance between community versus an audience versus a network.

Yeah. So first of all, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I always get a little like humbled when I hear like different things. I'm like, yeah, but there's still so much more to do and so many more things to accomplish and so many more things to build. And so it's super great to be here with you. So I think one of the most fascinating things about this moment is the fact that we have audience, we have network, and we have community, and they've all been munged together. So what social media has done is it's munged together what an audience is and what a community is. And we'll come back to network in a moment. And the definition that I have for the difference between audience and community is an audience is I talk out at you, you talk back at me, and no one is actually talking or building relationships with each other. Mm-hmm. And my kind of rule of looking at stuff is to say, hey, are people building real relationships? in the comments section? Or is everybody just producing content? Like, even the very notion of producing content is not an interaction. It's not a connection with another human being. It's— Right. I am publishing, you are publishing back. I'm publishing, you're publishing back. And there's a role for that. Certainly, it's how we spend our time, and it's how, as entrepreneurs and creators and community builders, we're gonna get attention for the things that, that we want to build, we want people to experience. And I'm happy to mention in just a moment, just in terms of like, you know, what my mission is, like what motivates me to get up every day. So that's audience. And then on the other end of the spectrum is community. And community to me is not just about being a part of something bigger than yourself, being able to take on common goals that, you know, we just can't do as individuals, to have a shared identity, to have a sense of belonging. But also a community is the single most effective way to navigate rapid change, which I think we can all agree as community builders and creators and entrepreneurs or founders, we are living through moment after moment after moment of rapid change. Right. So, having a community now is actually more important than ever. It's also the most effective way to build new practices, to change habits, to like, you can learn as many different life hacks from You can be a creator on social media, but until you're in a community actually seeing how you're applying it, belonging to a culture that is about making it something that you don't even think about, your probability that you're going to have those new habits or build those new practices is actually quite low.

Right. Because you're constantly going to second-guess yourself.

Well, you're constantly— the way that social media is designed, it's designed to just move on to the next thing. So, you might learn something that's awesome and you're like, oh, yeah, I totally want to do that. Oh my gosh, but this next post that is like designed to like capture my attention. Oh, but what about this other post? Or like, you know, just the whole concept of hooks, you know, they are hooking your attention and they are looking to hijack your attention. Whereas a community is— the hard part for a community is getting people to it.

Right.

But then once you're in it, and I would argue you have kind of the right software and you have the right setup, which is what I teach in community design and what I offer and my team offers with Mighty, is you are connecting people to each other such that The value of the community increases with every new person who joins and contributes. And so, it is about how are you able as a member of that community to navigate rapid change, to change and build new habits, to ultimately achieve results and transformation that any of us cannot get on our own and certainly don't get as members of an audience.

Right.

Or even a network. And so, the sort of the network in your example, which I loved, is like a college alumni network where it's like, oh, we have this shared— that's the shared thing in common. So, we have a Softer or a warmer intro to each other. Right. But moving from— and I think there's a lot of value in that, obviously, but moving to that community where we are taking on bigger challenges together, we are creating a special world together, we are ultimately seeking to stretch and grow and try new things because a community is the most forgiving way of understanding the skills that we want to build. Right. Trying them out, failing and getting back up and saying, oh, I can learn from these various people. And I think the really the challenge of this moment for any of us is how much time do we spend intentionally in community versus as an audience? Yeah. Or even more as a creator seeking to build an audience. And I think that there's a fundamental— they both require and need each other, but as somebody who on any given day is actually spending time in community and a community— I run an 80,000-person community called Mighty Communities, shockingly. Right. And then also, you know, managing a following and an audience where, you know, I have over 200,000 followers on LinkedIn. I see regularly the contrast between those experiences. And I think on some level, when you have community that really has a culture associated with it, and when you see your ideas become real in people's lives, that can only happen in a community in a way that it just doesn't on social media. You can get a, like, you can get a, oh, that's a great observation, or you can get a, like, oh, I want to repost that, or I can— you can get a viral hit, but you cannot get the, oh my gosh, I just facilitated people meeting and building relationships with each other and trying things that they would have never tried without this community, and it's not me. And this is where I think most, most We talk about them as community hosts. Most of us understand very humbly, and I think this has been your experience as well, is when you are a community host, you're like, this isn't about me.

Yeah.

The power and the beauty is in the relationships that are forming because of the things I've put in place in a community. Whereas when you are fighting for attention in the arena of social media, it's, what's my next hook? Like, what's my next hook?

What's my next hook? It's almost like formulaic too, right? I think it feels like a performance, and after a certain level, you have to perform. Because, you know, otherwise you're losing to the person who is going to perform. Like, it's high pressure, high stakes. You have to be at your best. And I've noticed that, you know, like in my own small scale, I've had, you know, the dual experience of being a creator with this podcast, or even like when I do my Twitter, as you said, you follow. First of all, thank you for following me on Twitter. Yeah. I feel like there's this like sense of like, I gotta be KP the brand, as opposed to when I ease into my community conversations, or when I join some of this stuff, especially after setting it up and configuring it. And like, It's taking a life on its own. I feel so at peace when I just slide in. Yeah. It's like watching your kids do their thing and you're like, just, you're just at peace. I don't need the attention. I don't want, I just want to know how you're doing. How is this working out for you?

Right? Exactly. And like, what do you want to achieve? And what, what are you missing? And how can this community— it's a different experience and it is a different vibe. And look, coming back to my mission, I wake up every day looking for what is that next step I can take so that more and more of us live in a world Where our time, talents, energy, and focus is spent on 3 or 4 communities that we can go deep into and immerse ourselves. Wow. And, and, and where the software is sitting there in the background, making each and every one of us a little bit more comfortable with building a new relationship. So, you're never walking into a— like the equivalent of walking into a party where you don't know anybody.

Right.

Instead, I believe that Mighty has a role to play in software, in creating software that really doesn't exist today outside of the platform, where it's really about culture. And how do I make sure that every single person who shows up at a community I create, but more importantly, a community you create, feels warmly welcomed, and immediately meets the most relevant people, and immediately has— knows exactly what to do? I find one of the things that is so fascinating is that we've built out many communities with the goal where we start with rules.

Yeah.

Where we start with like, don't be a murderer, as opposed to like, here's what we do here. Here's how to make friends. Here's how to build your status. Here's how you can contribute. And when you are operating and spending your time in a place that the first thing that they do is like, here's all the rules of like— Don't. You have to ask yourself the question, who else is here?

Yeah.

That thought that that would be a good idea. And so, I like— that is my mission. That is my purpose. That is the thing that I'm obsessed with, is how do more and more people have this opportunity to spend their time in communities that aren't only as magical as the ones are today, but actually take full advantage of smarter software and more things that we're able to do today, not to produce more shitty— I don't know if this is a family— No, this is a family podcast. More shitty content. For LinkedIn or more shitty content. Like, I love threads. Threads are a hook for a reason. But is the next thread going to get you results and transformation in your life?

I think going back to this thing around rapid change, you know what? I'm glad you brought up that concept of change. I think we don't give it enough thought when we have these like New Year resolutions and we think, oh, I want to do that, I want to do this. We don't think of it from like an organism, like trying to morph itself, like through change, right? We just think like, oh, I just— if I have 100K 100K Twitter followers goal, if I have a $1 million bank account goal, but they're all this arbitrary dumb shit that you're making up. Like, they mean nothing, right? What does 100K Twitter followers mean to someone from 20 years ago, right? Like, so, but back to the change part, I think for— if you view— what I'm hearing is if you view your life as a series of changes that you're choosing intentionally to morph from A to B, B to C, based on whatever your desires are, then you think of how do I really actually be thoughtful about creating change within me and within my circle, then of course, then the next hook's not going to help you because you already know the information. It's about application and then having the courage to constantly reapply this over and over and over again until the change becomes your new thing now, right?

Well, yes, I would say yes, yes. And here's the thing about rapid change and why we are drawn to community, especially as founders. Like, are you going through— like, the thing about being a founder Is like, what, are you doing it? Like, like, are you seeing this? Like, it's very hard to see the rules of the game.

Yeah.

And especially the thing that I've learned about entrepreneurship is across now 3 startups, and I've raised like, I think, $225 million, I think, in total, is the rules always change.

Yeah.

And so, because the rules always change, the playbook from even 6 months ago is different. It's fundamentally different. So, the But the key thing is to have a trusted community of fellow founders, of fellow creators, of people on the same path, so that you can get situational awareness, that you can observe, you can orient, you can decide, you can act, and you can observe again. And it's not just your experience, but it's the experience of other founders and how we are creating this world together. Now, the challenge... With that is that if it is all being done in public on social media, because somebody's got to be listening to this thing, like, Gina, I got— I have a community, it's called Twitter. Like, what's your problem? Like, you know, like, what? Like, like, nobody needs a private community. And if I did, it's just like a chat and we're good, you know? Here's a challenge with that. Number one is that we are performing.

Yeah,

we are

performing whether we acknowledge it or not, right?

And even when we're vulnerable and we are being honest The public gaze, you are doing it for ulterior motives, whether you say it or not. You're doing it because you're like, hey, vulnerability actually works to get more attention. And if I get more attention, then I can build a bigger audience. And if I build a bigger audience, then when I have software to sell my bigger audience, I can make those conversions happen. Like, I get it. Like, we're all entrepreneurs here. There is something different when you move beyond the, we're all killing it, we're all growing faster than we could possibly grow, and that you can You have a small trusted group where it's like, okay guys, like this is what I'm seeing. This is what I tried. This is what I'm like doing. This is what I'm navigating. Here's my experience. Here's your experience. And that the goal is not advice because advice shuts the conversation down.

Right?

It's about sharing stories, experiences, and ideas because those are what expands the conversation. It's what allows each and every one of us to build trust and to grow and to build something that together. Ultimately overcomes challenge, overcomes and reacts and adapts to rapid change much more effectively, and allows us to do more automatically because it's just a part of our community culture. It's just a part of our culture. It's a part of our lives in ways that then ultimately frees us up to be able to have new insights, try new things, experience and experiment and learn from other people in addition to other people learning from us. And I think there's a role for all of that to happen with audiences, but I think it's more performative than productive. And I think that when you have instead sort of smaller trusted communities of people sharing and trying things at the same time and comparing results, you just, you can outrun and outperform those who are performing in public.

Yeah.

And again, it's not either. I should— I'm making it sound like it's either or. I think it's both.

I think it's both.

I think it's both.

To your point, I think it also creates its own support system for you, which is very necessary, right? Without support system, you know, you will have inevitable slip-ups and you will have some— even the public arena, you will have some, you know, challenges and you will need, like you said, like the trusted tight-knit support system which says, we got your back because you also got their back when they need it. So there's that agreement that we're going to root for each other and we're going to be honest with each other. So I actually wanted to ask you, Gina, when was the first time you felt the essence of a great community and felt welcomed into something like a tight-knit community in your life?

Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. So I grew up in a very tight-knit community. So I write about this in the book Purpose: Design a Community and Change Your Life. Shocking topic for, you know, a book that I would write. So for me, what the environment that I grew up in is that I saw not just one tight-knit community, but I saw whenever people had had an interest, a passion, a goal, they were curious about something, they created in real-life communities. So, one of those communities became Apple Computer. It came out of a homebrew computer club. Right. You know, my own family, my father restored classic cars, my mom raised guinea pigs, and we always had different things going on. And for me, it's about the diversity of interests. It's about having multiple communities. Right. And multiple communities that allow for the celebration of and exploration of different interests and passions and goals and different parts of our personality, where the magic is in being able to go deep and focusing, come back up, go into something else that is related or adjacent or totally different and go deep and then come back up, which is very different than sort of the context-free, like everything's in one feed. Like a feed. Yeah, exactly. It saves time, but it also removes context. I think context is one of the most beautiful things that any of us can experience in a well-lived life. So that was, that was my experience growing up. And then fast forward to really the early days of social networks when it was still social networks and user-generated content. I happened to find myself in a very tight-knit community here in Palo Alto of people. We were all exploring different, different aspects Of the idea of, and the intersection of people and technology, people and product, and what does that look like? And what does that become? And the part of that world that I fell in love with was this opportunity for people to have and be members of different communities. And that, that there were hosts of different communities, and that the goal for any of us in a well-lived life was multiple communities. Right. Not, oh, don't give me another signup. Don't give me another login. And what's interesting to me about that is the thing that people don't want different logins for are the same thing. Like, they don't want 14 logins for 14 feeds that are exactly the same or trying to be the same. They want one experience there. And then there are different kinds of communities for different kinds of things. And that novelty is is so important. So, that was, you know, the area that I fell in love with. You know, by no means has it been over the last decade the juggernaut of mainstream social— it moved from social networks to social media. I don't know that that has been actually the best transition ever. And what it created for me as an entrepreneur was, okay, what am I in this for? Hmm. What do I care about? And do I care about You know, fame, fortune, and like absolute world domination, or do I care about something I believe needs to exist in the world? And I had a very clear which one do I care about, like which one is actually important to me. And I care about adoption. I care about winning. But I also care about what it is that we are building towards. What is that world? And I believe that. The world that is going to be the most interesting, the most resilient, the most meaningful, the most impactful, the world that's going to solve the most problems is one where people can come together in a trusted community with its own culture, with its own content and courses and commerce and community where ideas can be introduced and then become real in people's lives. And that is simply not possible when we live in worlds of creators and audiences exclusively.

Yeah.

And so that's my lane, you know, like that's my lane. Like that's the thing I care about. That's the thing that I want to build towards. I want to invite anybody who wants to join, you know, this particular strain of what it means to be a— I feel like you're building a movement here. I'm sorry, say that one more time.

I was saying, I feel like you're building a movement here, not just a product or a tool. And I think that's bigger. That seems to me like that's a bigger and more powerful thing to do, to work towards, you know. So I want to ask about the book. I know you mentioned it's called Purpose. Can you give a 2-minute sort of quick pitch about the book to our audience so that they can go check it out and leave them hanging with your favorite chapter. Mention the name of the chapter or something that happens in the chapter so that they go and read the book to discover what happens in there.

You got it. So, the book's called Purpose: Design a Community and Change Your Life, a step-by-step guide to finding your purpose and making it matter in the world. And my goal with the book was to create something super actionable, as tight and as short as possible while still providing chapters that you— the way I sort of thought about it was I wanted to write a book that you could put on your nightstand and like open to any chapter and have one actionable thing you're like, oh my God, I could totally do that tomorrow. Or like, I'm gonna try that thing. Or that's really interesting, I hadn't thought about it that way. So in terms of— and so I just basically go from the individual, how you can find your purpose, how do you make it matter, How do you really craft your own story that I talk about as your future story and the thing you're working towards, not just in your life? Because I think sometimes we think sort of too narrowly about our life and our to-do list, but rather, what is the world you want to live in and how do you help contribute to making that world a reality? And then everything I've learned about designing communities, how to set them up, how to— it turns out you can create a self-organizing community very easily when you have one thing. And that's what I call a big purpose. What is that motivation, not just for you to create that community, but for your members to know that your community is for them and that there's a lot of clarity around what they're gonna get from it? Mm-hmm. So the book came out of a, a course I teach called Community Design. And the realization I had was that in teaching people about how to create a community, I realized that this amazing moment that happens well before you invite your first member, which is being able to see clearly the impact you want to have on the world around you. So, I talk about your purpose as a clear, positive intention for your time, your talents, your energy, your focus for your brief time on planet Earth. And my favorite chapter, I would say, is the shift from viewing ourselves as heroes. Mm-hmm. And I think for any of us as founders, creators, community hosts, It's easy to think about ourselves as heroes, but the real— like, it wasn't until I was probably about 5 or 6 years into being an entrepreneur where I realized that the real power, the real impact, the real success financially and otherwise is when you shift from hero to host. When you shift from hero to how am I helping other people achieve things in their lives that are easier and possible with community or being a part of something bigger than ourselves by taking on challenges that are bigger than any one of us, helping others and ourselves for that matter achieve results and transformation that we simply cannot get on our own as individuals. Yeah. Because we have a finite supply of self-discipline. We can only see the world through, you know, our own perspective. And it's only when we join a community where we can get motivation from being a part of something bigger than ourselves, where we can learn faster and lean on others to build practices and habits in our lives because it becomes social as opposed to individual self-discipline, and ultimately craft together a world we want to live in.

Yeah, I love the transition there. I love the hero-to-host transition. I think it's brilliant. There's something super powerful about being other-oriented at every turn, You know, as a host, as a community member, community leader, community creator, I felt this when I was at On Deck. I felt this, you know, after I left and did other community things that at every turn, if you just ask yourself, how can I be more other-oriented? You know, not about me, about them, and just be enough disciplined to not let your monkey brain come in there and say, hey, what's in it for you? Because we all have it, right? It's just that that squeaky little voice is still in the head. All of us have it. I think you just let it be, embrace it, that I have it. I'm a human being. I have my selfish needs. But at this turn, can I let them win? Can I make something that will help them accelerate in their path? Ironically, the more you do this, there's a sense of joy you get even in the moment. But the real irony is the more mega successful you become in the long run, you're like, what is this? You know, the outpour is insane. Have you felt this? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So, here's the thing that I think is just fascinating is that the more that, like, if you are paying attention, I think about this person as kind of the savvy creator, the savvy host. Right. If you are paying attention, starting with others opens the aperture on what you are able to do and accomplish in ways that are profound. So, let me give you a couple of examples. When you start with community first, Guess what happens? You get better content. So when you start with community, like, so for example, you know, I teach this course. I've taught this course live for the last, you know, few years. Over 8,000 people have been through it. I have great content.

By the way, I would have loved to be in your course. If I was in San Francisco, Palo Alto, I would have 100% been in your class live.

It's online. I'll go check it out. I'm going to send you like— So here's the thing about teaching live is that you get real-time feedback on your content. Guess what? You have to actually really understand how to create breakthrough ideas and breakthrough content when you are seeing in real time how an idea that you introduce is received. Yeah. So what that also means is, you know how, like, I see this all the time with content marketing and content marketers where it's like, oh, we have to build an avatar. And we, you know, you have one-off, like, what does this person feel and think? And there's a role for that. But the thing about it is when you start with a community, it becomes absorbed into your muscle memory.

Yeah. It's how small it is.

So you start to think about, like, you can come up with, coming back to, you know, hooks, you can come up with hooks so much faster because you've been talking to people and you are talking to your community. Now take it one step further, is this notion of even an MVP product, I would would suggest, especially in this environment, certainly if I was starting something absolutely brand new, I'd start with community. Because if you— in a simple way to think about it is people before product.

Yeah.

Before you write a line of code, understand not just the one-on-one interviews that you would be doing, but how are your ideal customers, or we talk about them as your ideal members or your ideal paying members, how are they showing up in the world for other people? Mm-hmm. What are they talking about amongst themselves? And where are the gaps in terms of what they need or want or are paying attention to or words they use for how they think about something? And so all of those things are possible with community at a speed that you just don't have when you are fighting for attention in a context-free feed. And so when it was so beautiful to me about this is that we have found at Mighty more success by starting with what's, what kind of impact can you have? What is the thing that you want to accomplish in the lives of the people that you're bringing together? And each, almost to a person, when somebody starts with their members, they start with people, not, not product, not what's in it for them or what they have to do, they are able to get so much more out of a community in terms of speed to their goals and aspirations in a way that is just almost not impossible, but just requires tremendous more work and a level of focus and exhaustion that communities simply just don't require.

Right. You've seen how many communities right now, like on Mighty, like across the platform?

Yeah. So, we have both our free and premium networks are over Closer to a million at this point.

Wow. Wild.

Yeah.

What were some observations like? Because this, this is sort of a follow-up to your earlier point that I think there were some best practices that, you know, you may have.

So this is what— and again, anybody is welcome. We actually teach this community design masterclass. We call it the Accelerator. It's a live community with a course within it.

Awesome.

That every, roughly every quarter I teach live, and then there's the recordings, but then we also have You know, weekly, we talk about them as workshopping sessions. And I built Community Design really because between Ning and Mighty, I've seen hundreds of thousands of successful communities that have been built for different interests and passions and goals, and nearly 4 million that have been started.

Wow.

So, you know, what my goal is to always, you know, build platforms that people can easily experiment with, and that's great. But I want more successful Yeah. And I see the same common mistakes, the same traps. And—

Do you wanna outline any of them? I'm happy to share.

Yeah, I'm happy to share.

Yeah, can you share traps?

But community design is, it's the simplest formula. Unfortunately, it's not obvious, which is a bummer to me because I wanna make it as obvious as possible. But it's so distinct from social media where people have to produce all the time that they almost don't believe that a community is so much easier than building a social body.

That's a myth right there, I think. That's a big myth right there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I'll start with— so, there's 5 pillars or 5 elements of community design. So, there's your big purpose, that motivation for your community. There's the year in the life, which is essentially every community that has progress as something a part of it will self-organize. But you've got to make that really clear and then be very explicit with the culture of your community. Like, here's what we do together. So, somebody brand new shows up, you're like, hey, you know what? Definitely come to Tuesday's live session.

Orientation or something. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, definitely.

Like, big visual life cycle. Yeah.

Definitely come to Tuesday. Oh, and then also, like, go to our top members section and feel free to, like, DM any of them with any questions. They are here for you. We even have built things in on Mighty, like an icebreaker question. We've built in, like, welcome new members. We've built all those things in because it's so important. And every other platform is really built for people who don't know each other. I'm sorry, that do know each other. And we know that the people showing up for our communities on Mighty are not going to know each other. So we have to build these kinds of things up. And then what's beautiful about the year in the life is it's like, what can your members do a year from now that they can't do today? And the clearer you are with people about that, the more motivated they are to join the community. And here's another little trick. trick is when you create your big purpose, which follows a very specific formula, because it's basically how people in a millisecond figure out, is this community for me or not? So it's I or we, who you bring together, to what's the community going to do together, and learn, share, and grow. It's like, come on, you can do better than that. That's super generic. So that we can—

Oh, nice.

And then what the results are.

Nice.

That your members are going to get by being a part of your community. So that's the big purpose, year in the life. And then there's really 3 things, and it's really simple. Monthly themes, so you basically have an ever-changing set of topics or themes for your members to share their stories, experiences, and ideas. And then you have a weekly calendar where it's as simple as 2 things a week. Maybe it's a live stream, maybe it's a question of the week, maybe it's a community roundup, maybe it's a, like, book discussion or a podcast discussion. Maybe it's that you're dropping your podcast. It's just a couple of things. And the key thing with your weekly calendar is you just do them at the same time every week, right? So that your members are building a habit. So they know, oh, it's Tuesday at 9 AM, and it's been Tuesday at 9 AM for like 4 or 5 weeks. Even if I don't join that live stream Tuesdays at 9 AM, I know it's happening. So I remember the community. Right. And then daily actions are really, you know, the polls and That spark the relationships between members or the actions that you can introduce on a weekly basis. And everything is so much easier. So the things that people don't believe me when I point— and by the way, we've got the data to back this up.

Yeah.

Where you can create that community and then create a membership and people will buy it. And they will buy it not at $5 a month, they will buy it at $43 a month.

Right.

$300+ a year. And just for the simplest thing, when there is a clear motivation for being a part of that community. And so think about how, like, you listen to that, you're like, well, there's got to be more to it because, you know, like, I'm spending all of my time reading every carousel on LinkedIn or every thread on Twitter that's telling me all the things I have to go do to build an audience on Twitter or LinkedIn or TikTok or YouTube or like, and now all of a sudden you're like, it It just couldn't possibly be that easy. And the reality is, it is. 69% of the networks on Mighty that charge have 25 members that they are charging $43 a month.

Wow.

Now here's what gets even more fun and interesting. 27% of the communities that charge on Mighty— and by the way, 90% of the communities that are successful, they have both community and then Community courses. So it's— there's this element of progress, right? Right. 27% of the networks on Mighty that are charging, they are between 100 and 500 members charging $27 a month, roughly $240 a year. Now here's what gets really interesting. 22%, then the final sort of 22%, there's a little bit here and there, are 1,000 to 5,000 members. At $27 and $240 a year. So $27 a month. So what does that, what does that say? It says when you create something that is small and valuable, it can grow to large and valuable. You don't have to drop your prices. And the reason you just look at the price points, it's, it's because it's, it's a little bit broader when you have 100 to 5,000 members. But this is a totally different model of building a strong, not just community, but business. People pay attention to what they pay for. Engagement on paid Mighty Networks is 10x, 10x.

I bet, right? Because they're paying for it, they feel a connection.

Yeah, right. Yeah. And over 80% of all engagement is members. So it's not— you haven't— so when you're creating a community, Start with a community. First of all, your members are going to help you build an audience later.

Right.

They're also going to help you because they're going to buy books or they're going to buy courses. They're going to help bring new people into your community. So this, it is really mind-boggling to me how the traditional or conventional thinking about community is you do it after you have an audience as opposed to the thing that you start with. And then you have just this stronger foundation, more joy, more energy, more creativity. More content, more ideas, more like—

That's a pretty unique point of view. I think a lot of my peers also feel the former way, which you mentioned, which is that they think that they, they should have had— they need an audience first to even transition to the community side of it.

And it's like, why? When you start to actually peel back the reasons for it, it doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of that stems from them just feeling like this self- forth as a question thinking like, oh, if I have 20K— let me tell you this funny thing. I'm sure you feel this at your scale on LinkedIn. When I started Twitter, taking it seriously— until then I was just kind of like, I guess, writing Bollywood movie reviews on Twitter, like, you know, that's my content for 10 years. And in 2018, I started taking it seriously, and I feel like almost I went through the journey that you described where I had, I had to ask myself, if I'm spending my intentional time on this platform, I don't want to get into politics and all you know, annoying things. What am I going to do? What is my clear intent, clear purpose? And I wrote down that I will inspire everybody who is 2 steps behind me, some version of this. And at the time I was building no-code projects and learning Bubble, learning Webflow. And so I was like, whoever was just learning, getting into no-code was 2 steps behind me. So I was sharing, building in public, sharing in public everything. But what happened was at the time, I think I had like 2K audience on Twitter. I realized I'm going to be a big shot. I'm not just saying this as like a— but I realized that I let go of my self-worth question that I had, which is For a while I thought I needed X thousands of followers to make me feel like I have something valuable to share. It's not true. There are 2 different things. It's just that you've been on the platform longer. So now I just crossed 40K last week and last weekend, and I looked at it and I'm like, I don't feel any different from the KP who was at 2K,

right?

It's just that I've been on the game longer and I've learned the formulaic way of doing it now.

Well, and this is the thing I observe about having a larger following.

Right.

To continue to build the following, you have to be formulaic today.

Yeah.

And so then the question becomes, who are you? And now here's the magic. Like, let's just take that exact example. If you started with a community of 20 people who were 1 or 2 steps behind you building on Webflow and Bubble and no-code tools, not only would you have probably had more meaning and I felt more fulfillment. Yeah, because you're getting that interaction. You're also watching them help each other.

Yeah.

And now you're not sitting there as like, oh, I have to be the expert.

Yeah.

But then it's like, okay, what about if we go into social and each one of us then unlocks how we get more people into this community that, by the way, we own, that we are in full control of,

right? Right.

That we actually have people's addresses. And we could actually organize meetups and all of the things that come when you own your own community, which by the way, I will just add, does not happen on either Facebook or Discord or Slack. So you have this ability to have your own community. And then now imagine the impact you could have had on all of those people that— and you can still have it, but like, if you would've started earlier—

This is exactly— I think this is the universe telling me that I should do it. Because I feel like, because I said, like I said, I know that, you know, in a couple of years I'll be at $400K. I'm not— I have no questions about it, no doubt about it, because it's not about self-worth, Gina. That's the thing that I wish my younger KP knew because I spent cycles and cycles of my brainpower trying to perform, trying to be like someone that they would like. And I'm like, the irony is the moment I dropped that act and became more like me, my story, who I am, with all the quirks and all, I realized that— Yeah. That one, I can get more reps in the game because I just am natural now, having fun.

You're not taking as much time. Yeah,

but somehow that's what is attracting more people because people want authentic, you know, creators.

They want authentic. And now take it one step further, which is if you would have been that community and network group,

yes,

and you all go out together, and then you're not actually building your KP, just KP, you're building We are together creating a new kind of no-code movement. And then think about all of a sudden, all the other things and other ancillary benefits.

The flywheel.

Right. So, communities have flywheels that, well, to me, the head-scratcher is, how is this not more obvious to more people?

Oh my God. I think, look, you had me. Like, the funny thing I came into this feeling like I knew a lot about community, which I know a lot, like, than an average Joe, because I ran 3 communities so far. But it's not also what sometimes— because community is so adjacent to social in conversations, and because social has been dominating the airwaves the last 20 years on TV, everywhere, right, in our lives, culture. Mm-hmm. I feel like there's— it's the neglected second child, like community, and it's like misunderstood, underestimated. I think there's like a lot of You know, a lot of attention lacking that's going on there. Thanks for educating me and my audience and everyone who's listening today.

My pleasure.

You were going to say something. Did I catch you?

Oh, no, no, no. I just— I think that what I think is so fascinating about this moment is when people discover the power of community. And again, I'm unapologetic in saying this is the thing we all have an opportunity to do more of, and it will matter in your life, doing more community, being a part of more communities. And that staying open-minded to, like, what is next is one of the most profound and important things that any of us can do as individuals, but also especially as founders and creators and community hosts. And that, to me, is what's so exciting about this moment. I think things are definitely changing. And that's what's exciting.

I love it. I love it.

Thank you for the work that you're doing. Every single person who decides to start a community is doing something that needs to exist in the world. And the more that any of us are willing to stay open and try new things and stay curious and build, you know, that is a special, really special and important role any of us can play.

That's awesome. Where can people find you on the internet?

You can find me on the internet at Mighty Community, community.mightynetworks.com. It's probably where I spend the majority of my time. I'm also on LinkedIn at just Gina Bianchini, and on Twitter, I'm Gina B, because I've been around long enough that—

I will plug all these links in our show notes. This has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much, Gina.