12. How revolutionary are 3D Printed Bionic Arms? Tilly Lockey (Ambassador at Open Bionics) — Human x Machine podcast

Welcome to the Human Machine Podcast. I'm Christopher Lomas. The Human Machine Podcast is a regular podcast made in collaboration with global leaders in technology, innovation, design, and product. We bring you not just the interviews with global experts and C-level leaders, but more importantly, their wisdom on what lessons they've learned from the past and what they anticipate the future will be like for you and for me. The influence of emerging technologies like robotics is at an all-time high, and yet we rarely get to hear success stories from these kinds of technologies. And that is what the Human Machine Podcast is all about. Today on the Human Machine Podcast, we have a truly unique guest, Tilly Lockey. As a bilateral below-the-elbow amputee, Tilly has been using bionic arms for almost 10 years. She was chosen by Open Bionics to trial their new 3D-printed robotic hardware in 2016, the first of their kind to be medically approved in Britain. But where some might be held back by such a life-altering event, Tilly has thrived. And in this episode, we learn not only about the ever-improving robotic technology that enables her to live her life and the importance of the ongoing research and user feedback, but also the way that she's used her limb difference to create incredible opportunities as well as a platform for others. Whereas the Human Machine Podcast is often only in audio, we're releasing this episode with a video special to celebrate Lib Difference Awareness Month in April 2025. So if you're listening to this on the audio-only podcast, you might like to look for the video link in the show notes to see the video version, because learning about robotics by seeing Tilly demonstrate them is even better. Tilly Lockey, aka Bionic Girl, model, singer, motivational speaker, and ambassador for Open Bionics. Welcome to the Human Machine Podcast.

Hello. Thank you for having me.

So, Tilly, we'll get into all the different facets of your life throughout this conversation. But first, we need to help people understand your story. And you've got an extraordinary story that started when you were very young. So tell us what happened when you were just 15 months old.

Yeah, so when I was born, I was a completely normal, happy, healthy baby. Nothing was amiss, nothing seemed wrong at all. But then it was one night, I was 15 months old, I started whimpering in my cot, and I went back and forth to the doctors a couple of times. I was initially diagnosed with an ear infection, actually, but it got to the point where this rash appeared on my body. I was rushed to the hospital, and it was then they concluded that I had contracted meningococcal septicemia, strain B, in its full name, which, if anyone doesn't know, meningitis is the inflammation of the membranes around the base of the spine and the brain, and that can often bring on septicemia, which is a form of blood poisoning, and that is basically what kills off your limbs, like, physically. So they're a pretty nasty pair, to say the least. And I was basically told— my family were told that I was going to die. I was given 0% chance of survival. But obviously I'm here today, and it was after 1 week in intensive care, 3 weeks of recovery, a secondary infection which I later contracted, and 10 blood transfusions. But somehow I managed to pull through. I survived. And yeah, now I am living my best life, pretty much.

During that time though, you had some— you lost some parts of your body through that. Tell us, tell us the parts that you've lost.

Yeah, I mean, so it was, it was a life-altering operation, obviously. And I think at the time, it obviously— we're very aware of that. But I think for my family, it was just like, because they were so confident that I was gonna die, um, being told that I'd lose my hands was actually like kind of a celebration at that point. Obviously it's not, and there was plenty of things that people were worried about in the future, like really simple things. Like, for example, my Nana used to be gutted thinking I'd never be able to make myself a cup of tea. Like, now I live on my own and I'm happy to say I make plenty of cups of teas, but you know, in the moment it's just those little things. But yeah, they had to amputate my hands at the wrist, and yeah, that was bound to be something I would have to adapt to, and it definitely was. Um, it's been a journey in a lot of ways, like physically learning how to do things, mentally, emotionally. Um, but Yeah, it's been a journey and I've backed myself through it all. I've had a really supportive community around me, so I think I'm quite lucky. It could have been a lot worse.

You've been using prosthetics now since you were very young, I think. How have they evolved over the last 10 years? What have been some of the sort of the milestone upgrades or milestone moments for you?

They've evolved so, so much. And like, I travel the world talking about it at tech conferences and presentations and things. And I have like one slide in my presentation which literally just like literally depicts like a 10-year evolution. Um, I got all my prosthetics together, like the first ever one I had was from the NHS. And it's a lot of people's favorite slide in the presentation because you can just see visually how much has changed. Like, never mind the function and things, just looking at it, you can see how different and how far we've come. It's kind of crazy. But yeah, there's been loads of massive advancements. Um, I've kind of grown up in like peak tech evolution time, which is really exciting for me. Um, and it's obviously only going to get better and better and better, and I can't wait to see where they get. But yeah, I think— I mean, the first prosthetics I used, they weren't even technological at all. They were like hooks tied together by elastic bands, and they were like body operated. Like, the way I would move my upper body would pull on harness. Strings which would pull on the little prong fingers, which would make them go like left and right, sort of. Um, and then moved on from that, I became the youngest child in the UK at one point to receive a myoelectric arm. And that's because before I was offered anything, I kept trying to be offered a glove, and we were just like, didn't really see the point in that because it was never something that I was trying to hide, you know. I was always really interested in like the technology of it and how it could help and be functional, you know. So we did a lot of campaigning, which actually saw me be the youngest person to receive one. Um, and so yeah, you're right when you say like I was super young when I started, and even now they've advanced and developed even more. I think a big, um, thing that helped technology advance, especially prosthetics and so many other things to be honest, was 3D printing. Like when 3D printing came about, that was revolutionary. It helps it become more affordable, helps it become more lightweight, customizable. Like, these ones are completely 3D printed, and now they can have like all these random patterns on, which is super exciting. I always like that a lot more than the high-definition silicone. It feels a lot more me. So yeah, it's definitely been a journey, and it's exciting to think of, you know, where they'll be in the next 10 years when you look at how far we've already come in the last In another interview, I heard you say, um, four limbs is a human right, and you don't want to be in a position where you need to crowdfund for one.

No, that really hit me. Um, but prosthetics are still quite expensive, right? How much are they?

Well, it varies. I mean, you literally have some prosthetics that are like 80 grand, more than that. Like, you have— you— there's definitely some out there that are like hundreds of thousands of pounds, you know what I mean? And obviously that's not ideal. Like, I do believe having 4 limbs is a human right. It's nobody's fault, you know what I mean? They lose a limb, and at the end of the day, the way the world is designed, it's designed for people with all 4 limbs. So, you know, it is definitely a big thing, and you have to be so adaptable. Like, I find the whole, like, adaptability as a whole so, so interesting. Like, even when I was learning how to do things, like learning how to do that handwriting for the first time— it's in the name— and a lot of people are like, how did you even adapt like that? And I'm like, I couldn't even tell you. Like, because obviously I had nobody there showing me how to do it without hands. But when you're like growing up, you just sort of figure it out. But obviously it's just this extra thing that you have to be aware of and it's like a whole journey you've got to deal with yourself. So of course I believe having all four limbs is a human right and accessibility is such an important thing. But yeah, you're right. Unfortunately, at the minute they are so expensive and that's literally just because of all the high tech that goes into them. But yeah, these ones are about 20,000 at the minute. So it's still like a lot of money. And the most expensive pair I've had, which were single grip and like couldn't open wide enough to hold a cup, they were about— they were 36 grand, I believe. So, you know, it's, it's difficult and you want to make the price come down and down and down. But you also want to put more and more things into the arm to make it better. But you're always fighting the money and the price going up and also the weight. So there's so much to consider, which is why I find prosthetics such an interesting field. And yeah, all the technological advancements in the future should hopefully get even lighter materials that are cheaper but work just as well. It's just a kind of waiting game, I think.

You are operating that very naturally, but technically, how does that, how does the human arm that you, that you have communicate with the prosthetic? Is it, Neural? Is it muscular signals or something else?

So it's literally just EMG sensors. Like, there's no wires or— I've got a bracelet which is making so much noise. But yeah, there's no wires or anything attached, which a lot of people find crazy. You literally just slip it in like that. I can push it on my arm just like some suction. The socket is just really good. And then there are EMG sensors. So there's one here and there's one on this side as well. and they basically track the movements that I'm doing inside the arm. So if I squeeze my muscles on my biological limb, the hand will close, and if I flex, it'll open. And you can kind of see that movement. Like, that's literally all I'm doing. And then from that point onwards, it kind of works like a menu system. So if I open the hand all the way and then try and open some more, you'll see the button flash green and the foam come around. And that's basically me changing the grip mode. So you can kind of cycle through them all. You've got a grasp like this, thumb clicks in and out, open all the way. You've got a standard close for like a cup or a hairbrush, anything like that. Then if I press the button, I can squeeze that same muscle, but now you'll notice only two fingers come down and open all the way, change the grip mode. They call this the tripod. I call it the peace sign. And then finally, if I squeeze one more time after pressing that button, you'll see only one finger come down, and then you can do a little point like this. A lot of people don't know that it is kind of like a menu system, so you've got to be conscious of like where you're at in that system. But they have now introduced an app as well where you can like customize what order they come in. So if you have like your favorite grip modes, like the tripod and like a grasp, you can reorganize them, which I think is really good. Um, but yeah, very good.

And is there sensory feedback back to your arm? Does that exist? Can you feel through your, through your—

No, not at all. And that is like one thing that I really hope to see in the future because that'll be crazy. Like at the minute, because you can't feel, it is very much so that you have to like judge the grip you have on things visually. And obviously when I'm not wearing the hands, I can feel. So I do, you know, notice that when it's not there. I trust the grip very much so, but it would be cool to, to feel.

I saw on your Instagram, I think, a post that said 'the army,' and it showed like a number of different arms that you have. Why do you have different ones?

Literally just like growing up through the years. I mean, I am a loyal Upper Bionics user now. Like, I just get on with their prosthetics really well. But throughout the years, it was just a trial and error sort of thing. So I had the one from the NHS, then I had the, the private ones where I first went private and that was just what they were offering, like the high definition silicone. Like I think it was just assumed that you would want a realistic looking hand. And to be fair, like at the time I probably did because my problem with the first NHS prosthetic was that I couldn't really— well, I couldn't operate it, but I also didn't really associate it as a hand. Like saw it more like a claw and a weapon. So honestly, the realistic look at the time was probably where I wanted to go. But it was when I grew up a little bit more, I was like, I don't know, I'm not really feeling this. I kind of do want to cover it in glitter and lights. And that's just the transition we made. But also in the Army picture that you're talking about, there was some Open Bionics prototypes, which I've gotten to keep. I mean, we've been doing those prototypes and developing them ever since I was 9. So they're literally even 10 years old now, which is crazy. Um, but yeah, it's really cool. I have a nice little collection.

What are some of the surprising things that you couldn't do without the prosthetic that you can do with it?

I think it, it's, it really is those simple things that people don't really talk about. Like, I can like sort of feel my fingers to a certain extent. Like, I don't have like phantom limb pain or anything like that, but I can sort of like, I know what my fingers are doing even though they're not there. So like, from people, I'm talking like this people are like, oh, you really like expressing it, expression, you're really expressing it with like your hand and like while you're talking. And I do the same thing even when I'm not wearing them, just because I can't help it, because I feel like the fingers kind of, and it just feels natural to talk like that. So I don't even put that on or anything, but it is cool to just like have the fingers there to make sense of what I'm saying. Like, I love that. Like, whenever I was with my friends and we were taking a selfie or whatever, I would immediately like do this, and this, this to me is like throwing a peace sign, but nobody would know. So it's really cool to just be able to just like throw a peace sign, you know, and people actually understand what's going on. I feel like that was a really cool thing. Like, we talk a lot about like the physical benefits, obviously being a double amputee, being able to like multitask and have two hands. I usually have to do everything with like two arms together, so it's just sped me up in that way. But the mental benefits of just having a hand. And when it comes to like expressing yourself, meeting people and shaking hands and stuff has been really, really cool.

Can it interact with technology? You talked about taking selfies, but does it work with a phone?

I'm testing them at the minute. This isn't like publicly out or anything yet, but there I am testing some like kick sensor thing and I think I can talk about it. I hope I could talk about it. Um, it's not the best right now, and I don't help myself by putting nails on. But yeah, we're working on it. I tried all like the touch-sensitive paint, but that didn't really work. I think it's something like it had to be like touching your skin to like get that— those— that, you know, that, um, what do you call it? I don't know, that conductivity. Basically it had to be like touching biological skin, and because it's not there, like that paint couldn't really work. So they've figured out somehow putting something beneath the rubber which does operate the phone, but it's still in development and it could be a lot better.

Last one. Have you ever been caught short by it running out of battery or something like that?

Oh yeah, all the time. I'm terrible. Like, I think there's a new word for it now as well. I think, I believe it's called the Plan B friend. The ones that just like don't have a plan, really spontaneous, finds themselves in crazy situations. Like, I think anything that could have possibly went wrong on the train has happened to me. Like, missing the stop, missing the train, wrong train, you know. I'm definitely one of them. So I do let it run dry more than I care to admit. Um, but when I do let it run dry, it like starts flashing amber, like the button turns amber, and I think that's kind of a look anyway. So I don't mind it going, going too dead. And also when it dies, a lot of people are like, well, has it not died in like crazy situations? We've got stuck on something in public or whatever, they do actually let you turn it on and then it resets. I think it dies in that sort of position. So if you're like, stuck somewhere, it does open, thank God.

But yeah, so Open Bionics, you've mentioned a couple of times you're involved with them, 3D printing company. Tell us a bit about who they are and what they do.

Yes. So Open Bionics are a cute little company. I love them so much. They are run by the co-founders Joel Gibbard and Sammy Payne, Samantha Payne, OBE actually. So yeah, they're amazing. And like, genuinely, I've been working with them since there was like 4 of them working in a little cupboard. They literally just put out an appeal looking for a child below the elbow amputee to help them develop prosthetics way back in the day when they were just starting out. And obviously I was always really interested in developing prosthetics. And what really drew me to them was the fact that they weren't making realistic hands. Like they, I believe, were like working on like Iron Man and Elsa and working with Disney, like prototypes at the time, which as a 9-year-old little girl, I was like, this is what I want to be involved in. Like, this is way cooler than the flesh-looking hands. Like, what, what am I doing? So yeah, I got in touch with them. I mean, I was only 9 at the time, so I just submitted the little application. And they ended up picking me out of the other applicants. And yeah, I've been working with them ever since. They make 3D printed prosthetics and they were actually the first medically approved 3D printed prosthetic, which was crazy. And I was a part of all like the NHS trials and things like that since like 2016. Um, and they're now on the NHS as well. You kind of have to jump through a couple of hoops to get there, so people still do fundraise privately. But it's really, really cool and they are medically approved and I, I back them all the way.

In the beginning of prosthetics, it seems as though engineers were sort of focused on wanting to make prosthetics look more human. But then you've just talked a bit about actually wanting to make them almost more stand out and accentuate them almost more like a fashion accessory. With sort of these customizable covers for, for the Hero Arm. So do you think that prosthetics should be more obviously sort of other, or is it that there's some psychology to them, one, people wanting them to look more human?

It's completely personal preference, like 100%, and like I'm very open about how I like them to look cool and futuristic, and I love to cover them in glitter, but I never want that to invalidate somebody who wants them look realistic, um, because at the end of the day, it is completely personal preference. I think for me it's more of like a statement thing because I feel like there's a couple of things, like growing up in and around prosthetics, that like I, I uncovered in like my adult— well, teenagehood life, um, where I was just like, before I was given a prosthetic, I was given a glove. And I feel like Yeah, you're right. Like, a lot of people, the, the mission was and the aim was to kind of like mask the difference and hide it away. Like, when we were given this glove, my family were like, okay, cool, like, what, what does it do? How do we, how do we operate it? Like, let's talk about it. Um, and then it was just like, oh well, it doesn't do anything. No, it doesn't move. You just stick it on the end to make her look more normal. And, you know, I feel like in the moment you probably don't think that's a harmful thing to say, but like when you grow up and like reflect on all these things that people have told you, and like my first prosthetic work, moving prosthetic was given to me like in a brown paper bag. There was always this like discreet sort of suspicious energy around it. And like being told, or like, I don't know, just assumed by everybody that I'd want to hide it away, almost made me feel like it's something I should hide away, you know. So for me, being able to come out and cover them in glitter and match them to my outfit now, it feels very like freeing and empowering. So that's what I like to talk about. But It is completely personal preference.

There was one post that struck me where you marked up one of your pictures with these words, and suddenly I'm comfortable in my own skin, followed by a flick which said, which is weird because she, talking about your younger self, I think, wouldn't leave the house without long sleeves. That sort of underlines everything that you've just said for me.

Yeah. And I was looking back and there's literally a picture of me wearing this hyper-realistic hand. I only had one of them at the time because I couldn't afford to. Um, and like, yeah, so like there's that picture of me with the hyper-realistic hands and the other sleeve is like down covering it. And I think that just like speaks volumes. But like now I'll go out, like I was on a, on a girls' holiday in Greece and like wear the little dresses and the short sleeves and that, and I feel fine about it. And I don't— and it's not even that I feel fine all the time about it, like I still very much deal with that, you know what I mean? Um, it's definitely like an ongoing thing, and like you get in your head about it, you know what I mean? Like, I've got loads of scars to show for all the trauma I've been through, you know what I mean? And like, you have good days and you have bad days, but every now and again I do like, like to reflect on how far I've come, because there was a point where I would refuse to wear like dresses, and it was like tights, doesn't matter the weather, it was long sleeves, hoodies, and I would have like a nightmare every morning trying to find an outfit that like covered everything, that was going to be breathable and like fine in the heat. Like, it was a massive thing. So to be where I'm at now, I'm not perfectly there, but I've made so much progress. And I think it's really important for everybody because everyone— I know lots of people go through this. Like, it's really good to like reflect on that. And yeah, I'm very, very proud of, you know, that That's growth.

You now get to travel all over the world with Open Bionics and do speaking events, hosting conferences, TV shows. Tell us about some of the most incredible places that you've been and the amazing people that you've met as a result of your work.

Oh, so exciting. I went on a mad one a couple of years ago and just traveled everywhere. Like, well, you brought up earlier, I went to Amsterdam a couple of times. Love Amsterdam. Um, I did a thing with the Dalai Lama, which was crazy.

Mic drop.

Yeah, I was literally like, I'm gonna start dropping all these names and sounding really egotistical right now, but you've asked for it. Like, yeah, that was crazy. Um, absolutely mental. And he had like a whole crowd of people outside the church just waiting for him. So yeah, I was, I was sat next to him on a panel, and that was all about technology and compassion. Because like, you, I mean, you see people like me you probably wouldn't put me next to the Dalai Lama because obviously he doesn't use technology or anything like that. So yeah, it was a bit like when the email came in, I was like, that's interesting because you wouldn't think he's into all that. But it was all about technology for the good and how that is making waves and helping people in the medical field in particular. So it was a super interesting event. And obviously him being there was pretty crazy. I did a kind of runway modeling shoot fashion thing in the White House in Washington, DC. And that was crazy. When we got that email, they said the White House. I was literally— we were all under the impression it was some like pub or something. We were like, we can't get our hopes up, like surely not the White House, like it'll be a pub called the White House or like, you know, a hotel or something like that. But yeah, no, it was the actual White House, which was crazy. Um, I've gotten to go to, um, San Diego Comic-Con was like the first thing I did with Bornix, and I had like the Adam Jensen on based on the video game Deus Ex. That was super fun, and I'm a proper little gamer nerd, so that was like me when I was like 10. Um, my favorite place has probably been like South Africa, speaking. I went to South Africa and we did a little bush trip afterwards, so that was something I'll never forget. And yeah, I'm, I'm very, very lucky when I look on all the places I've been. I love traveling.

Amazing. Hey, I've spent probably the last, uh, 20 years or so in digital and product design I want to ask you a bit about user groups and feedback. So how important is that real user feedback to a company like Open Bionics?

It's so important. Like, I cannot stress enough. And this is like, I do different, like, talks depending on the event. I do a lot of inspiring girls, like young people empowering, like, stories. I do a lot of, like, heavy tech things who literally dissect the bionic arms and things like that. and then I do a lot of like empowering companies and businesses and things like that. And that is like—

you just said dissect the bionic arms. So tell us, tell us about that. Tell us how that works.

Well, just like verbally, like I just like— they just want to mainly like a demonstration. Whenever I do a talk, like I get the presentation out and then I'll talk them through everything, like all the prototypes and things like that. And then I always like take it off and I literally pass it around the room because you can actually like operate it on the inside if you're like here in person. So that's always fun for people to do. But yeah, I just talk about like the prosthetic evolution, like the upgrades and stuff over time and let people have an actual go of it, which is quite fun. Um, yeah.

Do you ever participate in the sort of the actual user research that Open Bionics run? So do they, do they have sort of new products for people to test? Do they have like specific tasks they want you to try out and do?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I did the NHS trials with them, so that was a bunch of like little tests of different things for them to get medically approved. I done all the tutorials on the app, so teaching everybody else how to use them, like, and different things like that. And yeah, I test all like the new things they'll get in. They'll give me a call, um, and I'll come around to the lab and test it out, like this touch-sensitive finger or the Hero Arm 2, which is coming out really, really soon. Which is super exciting. They've been working on all like the, well, all the upgrades. That's a, that's a whole new arm. So like there's plenty different about that. That's been a process and I've been testing for a while. So yeah, I'm kind of like the guinea pig, I guess you could say.

We talked earlier a little bit about sort of the touch sensitivity, but what do other limb different prosthetic users say that they want most in future prosthetics?

Um, I think for me it's the touch sensitivity and it's an automatic wrist, probably next. That would be great. Like, this is the best wrist I've ever had. And again, this sounds so loud because of my bracelet. I promise it's not usually that loud. But yeah, there's a wrist which is really, really great, but it is manual. And I think if we had some sort of automatic wrist, that would open a lot of doors and just make things a lot easier, like writing even like eating, like you can do all these things, but when you have a wrist, it just is like so much easier. Always like challenge people to just keep their wrists stiff for like a day and see how far you get. And because I'm amputated at the wrist, I'd notice that when it's gone. A lot of people are like up here, so they probably wouldn't notice it as much. But for me, I love that wrist movement, and when I don't have it, I'm like, oh, that would be great. So for me, it's like a— it's haptic feedback and an all-mech wrist would be great. Amazing.

Um, are there any things that, um, in your opinion, prosthetics do better than human limbs?

Uh, I think they look cooler. I might be biased, but yeah, no, I just, um, I mean, yeah, they have some superpowers. Like, for example, I was making like a chocolate brioche the other day, I was heating it up in the microwave went to get it out and I was like, oh my God, that is so hot. Like, literally burnt myself. I was like, no worries, get that one done because I can't feel it. Has some benefits. Just plucked it out. Um, so yeah, they have some like little superpowers like that. Um, so that's pretty cool. Um, but yeah, I just think they're, they're pretty fun. I think it will get to the point where they literally do surpass biological limbs. Like, I think they will get— I mean, I'm joking about like little superpowers right now, but I think they could get crazy you know what I mean? And when I talk with Open Bionics, like, I think that— I mean, they knew what they were getting into when they first took me on because I was like all about Bluetooth speakers, projectors, lasers. Like, I asked Joel recently for a taser. He said no, but he did tell me that they actually did some taser tests one time, and I was like, without me? Without me? What the heck, Joel? But yeah, there's— I think they will, they will get probably better, which is Quite scary, but pretty good for me.

Hey, we've already talked about your work as an ambassador for Open Bionics, as a motivational speaker, but you've also worked as a Sky TV presenter, you're a social media influencer, and you're also a model, including at London Fashion Week and Vogue, and you've worked with brands like MAC. How did all that come about?

Oh, honestly, I have no idea. It's still a bit of a pinch me. Situation, but I've always been in the media because of the fundraising that I did for my prosthetics when I was really little. So I feel like from that, like a lot of people, especially locally in my area, just really kept up to date with it. I think even from a really young age, like I would be— my parents would tell me I'd be in a sour mood, like throw a tantrum, 4 years old, in a sour mood, don't want to see anybody. And the second somebody came in with a camera, I would just turn that on. So like, I don't know, I clearly just really liked it from a young age. So I just kept on like doing the random TV appearances. Um, and yeah, I did a show called This Time Next Year, which was really fun. Whereas I don't know if you've seen it, but it was with Davina McCall, and you basically make a pledge. And that was when I first started with Urban Barnix, and I was like, this time next year I'll have hands. And that was the pledge. So I was like documenting that whole journey on that show, and I was like backstage there where like at least 3 people came over to me and were like, you should be a presenter. I never thought about that before. So obviously I was really young at this point. I think I was like 8 or 9. Um, and I just like, I just was doing a lot of random things. I was at school and that, but I had a lot of people who wanted to like interview me or do like day in the lives because I think I live a pretty niche life. Which is good because it's like the fact that people are interested in it means I get to travel the world, like, talking about it, which is just absolutely insane. But yeah, and then I, I did the whole thing with the Elite About an Angel premiere, and it was at that point where I started to grow a following kind of by accident on social media because Elite About an Angel has a lot of, like, diehard fans. And obviously seeing her, like, berserker body in real life as a prosthetic was like a really, really cool thing even for me. And yeah, so they, they all found me on social media. And at the time, I'm just posting like stupid little selfies with my friend. And I even remember— I have it in my archive somewhere— I even remember posting a story one time when I realized people were starting to follow me, and I wasn't even posing with the hands or anything. Like, the hands were proper like side quest in my life, you know? And then, um, I was like, hi guys, just wondering, like, a lot of people are asking me to like take pictures with the hands. Like, is this something you want to see? I didn't realize people were that interested. And it was like just so nonchalant, casual about it. And everybody was like, yeah, we want to see more of that, that is really cool. So I was like, okay. And then so I started taking my Instagram more seriously, just posting more regularly, started doing my makeup with them, just doing the stuff that I enjoy to do with them, posting that on social media. It like never felt like a chore. It was literally just documenting my life. And that has only grown since. Like, it was 2019 where I was running around doing loads of like public speaking and stuff like that, had loads in the pipeline for 2020, but obviously COVID happened. And when COVID happened, I was looking for things to do, and that's when I found myself doing presenting, TV presenting on Sky. And I also did a CBBC singing competition as well. So, yeah, I was literally just doing all this random stuff. And now I feel like I've gone back to my roots. I'm doing a lot more the public speaking and the developing technology because I'll always love that. It's always something I want to do. but I have that additional sort of like modeling stuff, singing stuff, and presenting, which is fun. Never a dull day.

We're going to come back to some of those things actually in a minute, but I'd love to talk to you just a little bit about that piece about AI and social media and friendships and mental health and your response to it. As you say, you've amassed quite a following, especially on Instagram, 150,000+ followers. And your messages there on social media are always, I think, incredibly positive. And I've heard you talking about social media as a very positive thing, but it strikes me that social media isn't always a very welcoming place. I think Pew Research have said that about 46% of teens report experiencing some kind of cyberbullying. Why do you think that sort of maybe 10 to 30-year-old, 10 to 25-year-old group of youth and young adults are then so keen to sort of connect with people on social media.

Yeah, I mean, you're right. I do talk a lot about like, social media is great. And I was talking to a lady recently who, she's missing a limb as well, and she's like a dancer. She was in like Wicked and Barbie recently. But we were talking about this, um, and we were talking about it. It was really good because I think when you're limb different or have like a physical disability of any kind, that is quite like rare and quite a niche way of living. Like you can really— you really do feel like you're like the only person in the world with that difference at some point. And I was talking to her because she grew up like peak no social media, whereas it's kind of always been there for me, or at least when I like got old enough to care about it, you know, it was there. So she grew up without all that, and for her, she said like the second social media came in, it was amazing because it was like finally seeing people like herself. And, and I think that's such an important thing to talk about, and obviously that's why representation and things is so, so important. But yeah, with social media and like the pros, it comes with the cons as well. And yeah, unfortunately there's like quite a big freedom of speech, you know what I mean? Like you can say whatever, and they try to like, you know, monitor it, moderate it, but things slip through, and you can read something that puts you in bed for a couple of days, you know, just ripping your hair out, thinking, why would they say that? But I think ultimately it has been really positive, and I think it's just very common knowledge now that if you're gonna tear somebody down, that says more about you than them. And that's something I've definitely learned. Like, at the end of the day, I've spent a lot of time with myself, and I've gone through a lot of stuff myself and been there to pick myself up constantly. And so if anyone says anything bad, bad thing about me, I'm like, first of all, you don't know me, so you don't have the substance to be able to say that. Um, and secondly, like, I think as long as you love yourself and back yourself, like, you can always pick yourself back up again. So I think I've gotten better with, you know, just pushing that to the side. And it is so like You know, it's such a small, small amount compared to the amount of love that I get on social media, which I'm very lucky for.

I'm pleased to hear that. In my introduction, I said earlier that you're also a singer. And a few years ago, you mentioned you won the BBC singing contest, Got What It Takes. That was amazing. And since then, you performed to an audience of 20,000 at BBC Radio 1's Big Weekend. And you recently released another song called Porcelain, in which some of the lyrics are, I am made of porcelain, but I can't be broken by you. Tell us, if you will, what inspired that song and those lyrics.

Well, I knew definitely that I wanted the song that I put out to have some meaning behind it. And I really liked it because it was all about being vulnerable, do you know what I mean? Like, I think it's very, very important. Like, I do look at myself like a very, like, strong person. I'm very determined, almost like stubborn in it. I'm like, when someone tells me I can't do something, that I'm like, that makes me want to do it now. So I feel like I'm very, like, strong in that respect, and that's how people would describe me. But I also think it's really, really important to be vulnerable, and that's been a big thing in my life, like having to just sit with things rather than just like push it aside and keep going and being the optimist. I'm very much an optimist. So yeah, I think it got to like a point where I was like, no, Tilly, you can't just do that your whole life. You have to actually address things. So yeah, post-slim was just all about, you know, being, being easy to break and not being okay, but just again, just being there for yourself and picking up the pieces, and ultimately that making you stronger as a person.

Amazing. Tilly, I think you're just amazing story of how emerging technology and AI has really transformed someone's life. But I love how you're also giving back to the world as a result of that, which is why I'm so pleased that you agreed to come on the show. What's the most important lesson that life has taught you so far?

Oh my gosh, that's such a massive question. The most important lesson. Oh gosh, um, I think to be adaptable and innovative. Like, I was told a lot of things, and like my entire life from the beginning, like from the get-go, I think a lot of people had a list of things and assumptions that like I could or couldn't do. And that comes with having a physical disability. Like, first thing people notice about you a lot of the time is sometimes that, and with that they have an immediate list of like what you can and can't do. Like, I was never really supposed to even live, do you know what I mean? And then I was told I would never walk, I would never run, I would never play the piano. And like, I've been able to do all of those things since. And I think when I find something that actually stumps me and I can't do, I like kind of lose my mind and I don't stop until I figure out how I can do it. Just a different way, you know. I'm, I'm realistic in the sense that I have no hands, so some things are difficult, you know what I mean. But I just feel like there's always a way around it, um, and I've always like kind of proved that to myself growing up. So I've only really fueled that stubborn energy. I just think it's just like, you can literally do whatever you want to do, even if you have to do it a little bit differently. You can do it. And it's because of that, like, if I have any crazy goals now I don't really put a cap on it and I just kind of go for it full force. And yeah, that's, I think, a fun way of living your life.

Amazing. Hey, the final question is one that we ask everybody who comes on this show, and it's the podcast is really all about the relationship and the kind of entanglement between humans and machines. So what's your big prediction for the relationship between humans and machines over the next 5 years?

Oh, some people aren't gonna like me. It's very like, um, there's very like opposite opinions about this. Like, people are so scared of it and then people are really welcoming of it. But like, genuinely being in this space and seeing how much technology has developed and things like that, I think the next 5 years, the next 10 years, it's gonna go off, it's gonna go crazy. Obviously we're seeing AI in that, and to be honest with you, I would rather see less of all the AI maybe more, more of the, like, the physical stuff. And I think it will be, um, a thing where people are more, like, welcoming of it. I think it could be a thing where people want to start augmenting themselves, like, able-bodied, which is really scary to a lot of people. Um, but my hope is that first and foremost we tackle, like, the medical things, like people with disabilities, and like making sure we're all on like an even playing field. Like, I, I do feel like all these developments and that should be as exciting as it is for everybody. I feel like there should be a focus on, you know, helping people first and foremost. And I feel like that's a good way to make sure that we don't get carried away and go absolutely insane, cyber psycho with it. Um, because I don't feel like that gets talked about enough, like technology in the medical field and like the lives it's changing. Like, when we talk about, like, people learning to walk again, people getting their limbs back, their sight back, like, I feel like that's what we should be talking more about. Um, so yeah, I think it will be a lot more welcomed. I think everybody will want a piece of it. Um, but my hope is that people with, like, the disabilities and things like that, um, can get what they need to live a fuller life.

Brilliant. You said earlier, one throwaway line, that I would love to repeat. The world is designed for people with four limbs, and I just think that that's really important for everyone to remember. And I think your story has just been amazing in representing that. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate you, and good luck with all your endeavors wherever you are.

Thank you so much. It's been so fun.

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