Crypto Megan Podcast | Bertrand Gauchot - Ex-F1 Driver Loses it All - Now Mega Millionaire

I'm here with Bertrand Gachot. We just had the most incredible episode going through Bertrand's life. I mean, he's a former Formula 1 star, incredible entrepreneur, and just an amazing person and a good friend of mine. This is such a cool episode. I mean, we talked about so many cool things from—

The thing which was amazing is when I was in jail, I was convinced no sponsor would want to be involved with me anymore. We only rented desks in a marketing agency in Paris.

Wow.

That's when we started. I was carrying the cases myself. And as I was entering the office, this guy said, and I don't know who he was, joking, he said, from Formula 1 driver to delivery boy, where did he go wrong? I'm not a money person. Money for me is a tool. And it's never been something about how much money I would save. I'm not interested in that. What I want is to live. They control your money. They say you cannot send it there, you cannot do this. You know, they charge you per transaction, which are completely ridiculous. The whole thing is complete tyrannical.

Welcome to the Crypto Megan podcast. I'm your host, Megan Nielsen. I'm a high-end crypto and NFT portfolio and Web3 strategy consultant. I'm currently on a world tour as a Web3 keynote speaker at all the biggest Web3 tech and fintech events around the world as an industry leader to educate anyone from beginner to C-level executives, and of course, to advocate for women in Web3. My mission is to inspire new people to get involved in the crypto and NFT space with quality, entertaining information they can trust as pioneers in this cultural and financial revolution, a paradigm shift.

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We have such an incredible show prepared for you today. I'm here with the most incredible person. Thank you so much for being here with us. A good friend of mine, former Formula 1 star and successful entrepreneur. I mean, this is just incredible. Bertrand Gachot. Thank you so much for just being on the show today and sharing your story.

Thank you for your interest.

Yes, we are here at Casa Hype, home of hype in English, here in sunny southern Marbella, Spain. And this is one of the drinks that was actually sponsored by sponsoring the World Cup, right?

Yeah, the Argentinian football team.

Yes. Yeah. And so this is the drink. So you can see it's really, really good. And we are going to go over some really cool things today. not only about how you built this empire, which is Hype, which is an energy drink brand, but also supplements now and branching out into functional drinks, but also your life story. It's just so intriguing and you just have the most incredible story. And we've talked about this so many times off camera and I've had, you know, the pleasure and the luxury to be able to listen to these stories of yours because they've really motivated me. And so I think the listeners are going to be in for a real treat today.

Well, I want to tell you that I have the highest respect for you always, and you know I always said to you that you should come and join Hype, but I was never successful. So that's how it is.

But I am an ambassador just in itself because I love this drink. And he actually has one that's called Cheesecake, and it tastes exactly like cheesecake. It's insane. I don't know how you do it. You do some magic here. But yeah, so I'm just gonna get right into it because we have so much to unpack and not enough time. No time would be enough to be able to tell all of the intricacies of your story, but I wanted to get started by just kind of letting the listeners in on who you are, your life journey, where you started. So many people may know you as the former Formula 1 star, right? And so I want you to kind of like give us an insight about how— what your life was like going into that and how you discovered your love for the sport.

Yeah, it was just a passion. You know, I saw the movie Le Mans when I was a kid with my dad. We went to see it and it was with Steve McQueen. And I just loved it, and I started to do karting, and, uh, but, you know, rental kartings. And then I really liked that, and then eventually I, I saved up money. I worked all summer, and I bought myself a racing kart, and then eventually I started to do that. And, you know, even though I was still going to, to school and university, um, I was racing, and my goal was to become a Formula 1 driver. And yeah, so it took a few years and eventually I got lucky. I got, you know, and I became— I fulfilled my dream to drive these cars. And yeah, it was an incredible journey.

But that's so crazy. So you started by karting and you liked that so much that you decided you wanted to pursue to see what it was like to actually go for the real thing. So you weren't actually— you don't come from a lineage or your family wasn't already into Formula 1. You just got into it by through The hobby of yours.

Yeah, no, totally. I was at school and I remember I heard there would be a Grand Prix coming in Belgium. I was at school in Belgium and I heard there was gonna be a Grand Prix and I only had like a little moped scooter that was doing, you know, 40 kilometers per hour. So I drove for hours to that track and because I had no money to buy tickets, I had pliers and I know it's not very good, but I cut the fence and I went in. And when I saw the race car come, I just— the power, the immense power, the excitement was such that I said, I'm gonna do this. This is what I'm gonna do.

You just set your sight on that and that was it?

That's what, what I wanted to do. So basically it was like, you know, a real challenge, and it was really interesting because I had to struggle a lot, but eventually I got there.

Yeah, and I actually think those struggles are part of What makes you you and how resilient you are and how strong and just your mentality. What the story you were telling me just before we started recording about how you had it really tough and you were— were you living out of a truck at the time? Or—

For sure. You know, we barely had the money to eat. You know, the, the thing is, my parents said, you can always come home, we will give you a bed and food. But I didn't want to be home, you know, so I was out there and I was trying to, to race and I didn't have a place to stay, so I stayed in my own truck.

Wow.

Under my race car, and it was smelling a lot like petrol, but, you know, it was what you had to do, and it was okay. And, you know, these are times I don't regret.

I mean, it doesn't feel real almost. It seems that a lot of Formula 1 drivers, they do come from more affluent families who can afford that, just like other sports that are more expensive. A lot of people start out, you know, having that backup and that support from their family, and you didn't. And the fact that you Decided this is what I'm going to do, I'm going to make this happen no matter what. I think so many people get stuck in the thought of, oh, but I need to, I need to have this first, or I need to find the money from— I think they get caught up in the fact that they need to come from a certain background in order to fit in somewhere, to be a part of something, and you broke all of those molds.

Well, I just think that coming from a rich family has its advantages, and coming from a normal family has a lot of advantages too, and you just have to make the best for yourself, you see. Like, I see the motivation when you're a rich kid. The motivation is probably not the same as when you are desperate and that is the only thing that you have, which was my case. So I think, you know, the odds are very good as long as you live in a free society. Wherever you start from is up to you, and, and I think, you know, it's— this is what's wonderful. I enjoyed that journey, you know.

The free society. And one thing that I really connect with you on is that you're such a free thinker. And I think that's also what drove me toward, you know, getting to know more of your story because we think a lot alike in a lot of ways. So then take us through, you started getting into this and you decided, I'm going to make this happen whether I have money or not. I'm just going to go for it. I'm going to throw it out there. So how did you get started and tell us a little bit about your journey in that?

It's just the classical thing, you know. I was racing cars and I was okay about it. I was quite fast, so they gave me better opportunities and better cars, and I got sponsorship. I must say, Philip Morris and Marlboro saved me many times. And, uh, you know, it was, it was just an incredible journey. Then I got there. Unfortunately, I was not successful as I wanted to be. I wanted to win Grand Prix and become world champion. I didn't succeed in that, but you know—

But you won Le Mans.

Yeah, but still, you know, my ambitions was higher, but it's okay, you know, and it was an interesting trip, I'll tell you that. Then I also was a bit unlucky because, and I managed it also badly, as I was sent to jail. You know, I was sentenced in England for having had a fight with a taxi driver, which was complete rubbish. The whole thing was Ridiculous.

And, uh, so, I mean, so you're at this pivotal point in your career where you're about to be number 1, right? You're going—

Well, I was doing good. I don't know if I was gonna be number 1, but it was going well. And the race before was doing very well, you know. And I just had done the lap record and the fastest lap. And then the next race, I go to tribunal, and I think it's gonna be a formality. I think they're just gonna give me a fine, right? I had seen different lawyers and they said to me, don't worry, it's only a fine. And they put me in jail for 2 years.

So just over an altercation, just something happened, circumstance put you, landed you there?

9 months before, happened 9 months before. And basically it was just to make an example. And this is where I learned about justice. I learned about, you know, that life is not what you expect it to be and that from one second It will turn into something beautiful or terrible. And in that instance, it turned into something quite— I wouldn't say it was horrible, but it was really an experience. And yeah, it turns like this.

Yeah. And so you were telling me, and this is kind of the thing I think that makes you you and makes you so successful in whatever you do, because we were talking before and you said you reflected on that while you were in jail and you just accepted what had happened and decided that you were going to move forward no matter what and that you were going to accept the circumstances. I mean, it's quite incredible because a lot of people don't have that mental strength, that resilience.

But, you know, it was such a shock and suddenly I was in, you know, I remember when they put me, they locked me in that cell and they said to me I would have to be there 2 years. I remember lying on the bed and thinking, wow, that's my life, you know. And, you know, this It's okay. And then you make the most of the situation. That's really the key. I made a lot of friendships in there. You know, I met some interesting guys, also some guys I would rather avoid. But overall, it was very interesting. And, you know, I can tell you that this jail system is something that does not work. It doesn't do good for society. But that's another story.

That's another story. But it all ties into where we're going with this at the end about the free thinking and about, you know, what we're going to talk about with crypto and Bitcoin. But just to take us back a minute, so when this moment happened, this pivotal moment, Michael Schumacher was in the running, right? And so I think a lot of people don't know this about you, but you're actually friends still today, right?

Yeah, well, basically Michael Schumacher replaced me and he did a great job. The car was very fast at that race and he did a great job. He took his opportunity. You see, this is what is important in life. When you have an opportunity, he didn't miss it. He took it. And he made the most out of it, and he became the greatest champion. So really respect to him. And what I appreciated, when, when I came out of jail, which was a few months later because I appealed and I went out of jail, Right. I came to the track and the first thing that Michael did, he came to see me and he said, Bertrand, I'm really so sorry for what happened to you. It was wrong. Anything I can do to help you? And from, from that day on, we became friends. And we saw each other at the races always. And, you know, I thought the guy is a brilliant driver, but also a good person. And, you know, when my son was racing cars a few years ago, he was in a team of his brother, of the brother of—

Wow.

Full circle. And I really like these people. You know, the guy was a great champion and also a good human person.

That's important. It goes a long way in life, that's for sure. And so when you got out and you saw that he was kind of starting to take his place in that spot, how did you feel in that moment? And how were you able to move forward after, you know, such a speed bump, we'll call it, in the road?

Well, basically, first, obviously I wasn't very happy how I handled that whole thing. I, I made mistakes, you know. I should not have gone to court that way. I should have been more prepared. I thought it would be nothing. And that was my mistake, and I regret that. But apart from that, you know, the, the, you know, I should have done things better for sure. This is how life goes.

Life lesson learned. And so, I mean, you get out, and at what point do you decide, okay, I'm going to pivot and I'm going to launch this extremely successful today energy drink company?

Well, that, that was basically when I, when I was racing, I was sponsored by any drinks companies. And basically, when I retired, I said, oh, I'm, I'm gonna do a company that distributes companies these drinks in France. And we started to distribute Hype in France.

Wow.

And basically, then we grew from France to other countries. And then now today, we're in about 40 countries.

That's incredible.

And basically, it's, it's— we're a market leader in some markets which are very Very important to us, obviously.

Right.

And we, we enjoy doing what we do. Now it's 20 years. I can't believe it.

That's insane. That's so cool. And now, now we're here talking about it, and, you know, you have this most amazing office, this really cool lifestyle, and I just admire the way that you think. So I just want to go back to one thing that we talked about before too, which was you said that a lot of people gave you a hard time when you started the company because they were looking at you at this successful, famous Formula 1 person who then stepped into this new kind of category and had a specific thing they would tell you.

No, no, because basically when we started Hype, we only rented desks in a marketing agency in Paris. That's when we started it. And basically, I remember I was carrying the cases myself, and as I was entering the office, these guys said— and I don't know who it was— jokingly said, from Formula 1 driver to delivery boy, where did he go wrong?

You're transitioning, you're out of jail now, you're getting back into Formula 1 and you're trying to figure out what you're gonna do now, right? What's your next step? So what did you decide to do when you—

The first thing which was amazing is when I was in jail, I was convinced no sponsor would want to be involved with me anymore. And I thought I had no chance. But when I came back, it was exactly the opposite. And that's the irony of life. sponsor came to me and they said, look, what happened to you was so unfair, we want to sponsor you.

Wow.

And basically I went to Japan and right away they put me in a car.

That's incredible.

Yeah, it was incredible.

I mean, that's exactly the opposite of what you would expect.

Exactly. So life sometimes has twists for you. And basically I raced again and it was great and I really enjoyed these years. And then eventually I had even the bad idea to start my own racing team and my own Formula 1 team, which was really a bad idea because it was a lot of work. But, you know, at the end I finished my career in my own car, finished 8th at the last Grand Prix in 1995, and I'm quite proud of that.

It's not bad at all, is it?

Yeah, I lost every single penny I had, but it was an experience which was incredible.

Okay, this is just— I mean, it just feels like it's just so full of these moments where you're on top and then, you know, something happens and you just keep climbing back up, right? I mean, it's so hard to come back from that. That's an incredible point that you just made. You lost it all then. You went after your dream of owning your own team, you lost all your money.

Everything, everything I had ever made before and more, I lost. But basically, it was an incredible experience and, you know, I'm proud to have done it.

That's amazing.

Because when you're young, you know, you can make it again. So it I'm not a money person. Money for me is a tool, and it's never been something about how much money I would save. I'm not interested in that. What I want is to live. And really, that was such an experience. I wouldn't miss it for the world.

That's amazing. I mean, it's just so cool that you just go for things like that without thinking. It's like one of my favorite quotes from a movie I saw, Top Gun, the last one. Tom Cruise, he's just like, you know, in this And he's like, you know, don't think, just do. Just do it. Just do it and just go with your instinct and your gut.

Trust it. Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

And you know, as a racing driver, I can tell you that many times at the start of the Grand Prix, you sit in your car and you don't start to think. You just say, let go, relax, let, let it go, and trust your instinct. And I think it's a really important thing to be able to do that, because when you're tight, when you're nervous, you don't perform. And I think every person that has to perform has to let go and let the, the inner instinct or intuition drive you, and it makes a big difference.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people are missing that factor of just trying to have control over the moment and not really going with what their gut says.

If you're tense, you're not going to perform. Yeah, you have to let go.

In literally every sector, right? So Okay, so you do this grand venture. I mean, you have the adventure of a lifetime. You make your own team, then you end up like this. What are you thinking now? I mean, most people, you know, they think about quitting. They think about giving up. I mean, it's just—

I'll tell you, I wasn't too proud because, you know, everybody expected me to be successful and have resources, but I didn't know how to pay my rent, you know, when I finished this, and it was difficult, but eventually, step by step, it came back and I started Hype. And Hype was very, very exciting, very good. And I saw huge potential and I still see it today. And I enjoy every day at the office. When I go to the office, I'm happy and I enjoy because this is like a playing field for me. And yeah, so we want to build the best products and it's—

And you do. Your quality is unmatched. I mean, it says a lot about you, how you make sure that every single product is done with, you know, the utmost care, and you make sure that people like it and that it tastes good and that it's quality ingredients. And not all brands can say that. And so I think you guys did an exceptional job there.

No, for sure. And, you know, commercially I've learned that the best product doesn't necessarily win the war, but still, this is our mentality and this is our goal, is always to deliver the best products we can. And maybe we're not as efficient or talented as some others in marketing and sales, but we know that the products that we produce are quality.

Yeah, for sure. And just going back to one point then, so when you're starting Hype, you have very little resources. I mean, you're going off whatever you can. And I know that you gave me one specific phrase that stuck with me, and I have to share this with our listeners because it really made me think, wow, I mean, this is just so inspirational. So people, Gave you a hard time, right, for doing it yourself?

No, but basically I was delivering the drinks myself. And when I came into this office to deliver the drinks, I remember this voice I heard behind me said, from Formula 1 to delivery boy, where did he go wrong? And I just remember I turned around and I just laughed because it was true. But I knew Hype would be successful. I knew I would be successful. And it was just part of the journey to deliver the drinks. I had zero issue with it. And I took it as a challenge. And, you know, today I'm very happy to have done that.

I mean, it's super admirable because that's something that holds so many people back. And this is why I wanted to bring this point up, because so many people care so much about what others think that they're just stuck in life because of it. And so—

Yeah, yeah, you're prisoner of your own image, and you shouldn't, because basically everybody forgets even the fact that they went to jail. You know, some people said to me, don't speak about it. And I said, no, I'm proud of it. I'm actually proud to have gone there, to come out. It was an incredible experience. I can tell you there's a lot of people that are in jail that shouldn't be there. And there's probably a lot of people— anyway, the thing is, it was a very interesting experience and I'm really proud of it.

I mean, I think there's so much to be said for just how liberating that feeling should be, right? Of just letting go and not caring what others think and doing your thing and just that winning mentality. That's what is so magnetic about you is that you just go for it and you— it's like nobody can stop you. And when people do this in life, you're literally unstoppable. You're unstoppable when you don't care about what others think and you really unlock your true potential inside. You don't need the resources. You don't need people's affirmation that you're great.

No, no, for sure. I wish I was unstoppable. I know my limitations, unfortunately. But yeah, you know, I tell you what, I enjoy the journey.

Yeah, that's what it's about. It's about the journey.

Totally.

That's a major part of my show actually, is just talking about the journey which we've been doing. I like to do that part because people have so much to learn from people in your position and like you who've had it all and then, you know, had a setback but then kept going and now look at where we are in life. And so it's— you're just living this incredible life, you have this amazing brand and, you know, one other thing now that we'll transition to that We have in common is, you know, our love for the movement that is happening now within cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and the freedom of money, the sovereignty of your own money, of being able to control that money and control the way you transact and interact with that part of the world is just incredible.

And so, yeah, absolutely. And I'm really thankful to you to dedicate so much of your life to this extremely important and opportunity we have for society to live in a— freedom is essential for me. Freedom is everything. Freedom is what enables creativity. Freedom is what makes happiness. And, you know, I think Bitcoin is an essential part of freedom. And this is why, you know, I believed in it since the beginning when I heard about it. I didn't know how to to get into it, but I was really because we're talking 2013, 2014. I didn't know how to do it. I'm not a geek enough to to know how to to to access it. But I really was fascinated by it, and and still today I think this is something extremely important for for free society. I I really believe that there should be separation between the government. and the money, like there's separation between government and church.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, it's very, very, very important. And justice, you know, separation of the powers is essential to a functional democracy. And it's just not normal that the government can print money and distribute it, because we always hear about government printing money, but you never hear where that money is going. Because if you think they're only buying bonds with it, It's wrong. They give it to different companies and different people have huge benefits. So everybody's money is diluted.

Yeah.

And then suddenly they give this money to somebody else. So imagine playing Monopoly and suddenly one guy controls the bank and decides, okay, we need a bit more money because everybody's running short. So everybody gets a bit of money.

That's fair.

Okay, basically prices rise, but You know, it's fair. But in the case that we are living in, it's not because only a part of the players get the money.

The top.

Yeah, well, whoever.

Yeah, whoever.

Not us.

It's not equally distributed.

Yeah. And I really believe that Bitcoin solves this kind of issues. And, you know, you wouldn't have wars like we have them today. Nobody would finance them. That's a good point. It's really important for the freedom and the control, because for me, money is going to become like, sorry to say, but like air miles. Air miles, and from one day to another, they say to you, sorry, the price of petrol has gone up. Your miles are only worth so many— your miles are worth nothing. They dilute them.

They dilute them all the time.

And basically, You know, this is— people work for nothing at the end because your money is worth nothing. And this is why I really love the concept of Bitcoin, something totally independent, a mathematical formula, decentralized. I just think it's—

Limited supply. No printing money, right? And I always— I posted this the other day. It's how often Bitcoin gets audited versus the Fed. So I don't think the Fed has ever been audited. And it's just, you know, the amount of security and privacy and ease of use and all of that with Bitcoin. You said it before, money is like a tool. And so Bitcoin enables us to interact between each other and with each other without the use of the middleman, the clunky bank that can deny our transaction or can freeze our accounts or can tell us— even now, the Fed is coming out saying, I mean, we want to launch our CBDC. So a central bank digital currency, right? So it's a dollar but in the digital form. And the problem with that is actually nothing has changed. It's the same tired system with better technology and even more control, right? So it's not going to replace crypto. It's absolutely the opposite of crypto.

And your money is not your money. They control your money. They say you cannot send it there, you cannot do this. You know, they charge you per transactions, which are completely ridiculous. The whole thing is complete tyrannical. And, and, and don't forget, you know, for a democracy to work, the people have to make the decision. The people make decisions, right? To make decisions, you need to be informed, so you need to be able to read. But the media is being bought by Western governments, we all know.

The media.

So obviously you're disinformed. Some of the media is banned because they say it's disinformation, and basically so you don't have access to information. You're only listening to one voice.

Right.

You have to make a vote, but your vote means nothing. So at the end of the day, you know, it's it's really a very worrying situation because these people have access to money. What you want is, you know, something like bitcoins. And I just think it's just an incredible invention. And basically with Bitcoin, nobody can print more. There's a limited supply, as you said. And you have also an advantage at saving, you know, people who want to save. I know it doesn't promote the economy, doesn't help growth, but I'm not sure that in the long term, I think it would be a lot better for society and the world in general If we could adopt this money.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, just this tyranny that the government has had for this long now, it's like a breath of fresh air for people who get to use these tools that I have to remind you, only previously accredited investors had access to. So now we have access to all these tools, to DeFi, to decentralized finance, and the US government is coming out and saying, hey, we're going to make Staking illegal now because that is actually a security. And so by definition, a security, you have to pass the Howey Test, right? So it's kind of like all these different factors of, well, is one organization making the decisions? Are people investing with the hope of a return? But it's not like that at all. Actually, the CEO of Coinbase, I don't know if you've seen this article, but he comes out, his name is Brian Armstrong, and he says, look, this is the total opposite of a security. It's people locking their coins in for a specific amount of time to To help secure the blockchain and make sure that it runs properly. And in return, they get rewarded coins for helping that transaction run more smoothly. And it's decentralized, right? So there's not one entity that's watching over this. And also, they can only get the coins back to their own wallet if it's the true type of staking. So I mean, you know, like the US, they're going to drive people offshore, or I think they're losing the race in— cause that innovation to go elsewhere.

I think that's really important is the fact that you want your country, your people, you want people to be involved in it because this is going to be such an exciting industry. And I really see 2 points I want to make. The first is again about jail. One thing I learned in jail is that go to jail and take your £50 or $100 notes. Nobody cares about money when you're in jail. A note is worth nothing. What is worth something in jail is telephone cards, drugs if you can have them, and tobacco. This is the medium of exchange.

Wow.

So telephone cards in, in my days— now I don't know, maybe it's changed— but basically telephone cards are a medium of exchange, and tobacco.

Right, so barter, like trade.

Yeah, because basically money means nothing. You cannot buy something with it. And this is really interesting. So the fact that you know now it's the dollar or the CBDC, you know, or the Bitcoin, this is not important. What it can change very quickly. People adopt very quickly what is the most efficient medium of exchange. And I really think that for the future of Bitcoin, what matters to me is they need to make it easy. It needs to be foolproof. It needs we we need to have applications. Which are simple so that even a grandmother can take it and use it intuitively. And this is what we don't have yet, and that's why we're still at the beginning. Yeah, but, you know, I really think this is really key for the future, for a wide adoption. I think people would use it a lot more. People are daunted because it's too complicated.

Right, right. Yeah, and that's the whole issue, and that's one of the reasons why I want to make this more mainstream. I think we need to break it down, make it The UI and UX, it needs to be better because right now, only like you said, you have to be kind of an internet dork to get started.

People are scared to lose their coins because they used to have somebody they can call if they have a problem. Yeah, but with Bitcoins, nobody to call. You have nobody to call. It's gone.

I always say with great power comes great responsibility on our end, right? So we have the responsibility to get educated. That's one of the reasons why I'm pushing so hard, because I want people to start to want to get educated, to learn more about it, to get involved.

And I love that aspect about it, is that you have to become responsible. But we live in a world where people don't take responsibility anymore, and this is difficult. That's why I think what really matters for mass adoption is very simple user interface, as you say, applications which are very easy Like we talked about, I hosted the fashion show in the metaverse the other day with a technology called Vatom.

And all you had to do was one click, even my dad showed up. So that was like my stress test. Okay, he figured it out. He's here. That's what we need to do. We need to get people involved, like, so they actually are using blockchain technology seamlessly without even realizing they're using it.

Exactly.

And that is the game changer. Yeah.

And that's what needs to happen. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, we have a lot of the same views. I do believe that this movement, we're on the verge of a generational opportunity here, not only in terms of investment, but also, you know, Bitcoin mining, which you also do. I know we've discussed that as well, which is cool. And your reasoning for doing it is actually what I love the most. No, no.

Yeah, because really, everything I did with Bitcoin was never to make money. It was never my purpose. My purpose was never to make money. And it's a philosophical— I just want separation of powers, separation of the government and the money. I think it should be separate.

Absolutely.

And basically, I like to do mining. I do it with my son, and we do it in Dubai, and we like it because it doesn't have to be a money-making business at all. I just do it because I believe in it and I want to be part of that movement and I want this decentralization. I want different places where you mine. And so it's all very exciting.

It's so exciting. We're both on the forefront of this movement and a part of this movement and it's such a pleasure to be able to sit here and talk with you about this today and that we've come full circle and now, you know, you're on a new adventure of discovering all the possibilities. I know we've talked about Possibly doing an event with Hype in the metaverse at some point in the future. Or, you know, Formula 1, they just came out with 8 different patents to be able to get involved with NFTs and crypto. I mean, this is upon us now. And we're, like I said, on the verge of a generational opportunity. And I want to bring this conversation to as many people as possible and just get them excited because this is freedom.

Totally, totally. And I really would want to thank you for that. And, you know, for the time you pass and your enthusiasm. And, you know, I think it's something extremely important for future generations. We talk about global warming and all that, but this is much more important than all of that because this is about freedom. And, you know, when people are free, that's when they're creative. And when they're creative, that's when they solve problems and find solutions. So I think it's essential for the future generation to have this freedom, of money, you know, that your work doesn't get lost. That you're free to live your life. That your work doesn't get lost, that you're not a slave.

Yeah, that you're free to explore new opportunities and new creativities.

All your life, all your life you work to make money. If you think how many hours you spend working, trying to save money to buy a house, to buy something for your family, and all of that is just Nothing. It's just paper. Yeah, it's crazy if you think about it.

It's a crazy thought. I mean, you could get lost in that thought.

Yeah, because you, you, you, all your life you work for something, and at the end you don't control it. They control it. It can be diluted. It can be taken away from you.

And it is.

Think about it. It's crazy.

It's a really crazy thought.

And that's why for me it's a philosophical issue.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so I'm so grateful that you were able to get on here and share your viewpoints today, and hopefully, you know, the winning mentality that you have and the resilience and just that will to keep going and pursue all of these amazing things is just infectious. Like, the energy is just so, so good, and I'm so glad that we got to hear this side of your life as well. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing with us, and it's been amazing.

Thank you very much.