In this interview, Tim Ferriss asks Biz Stone how he navigates the drama that can arise in high‑growth tech companies, especially when large sums of money are at stake. Stone explains that he deliberately keeps his companies neutral—refusing to align with any government and publicly championing freedom of speech—to protect trust. He describes how the influx of billions of dollars can cause strange behavior among board members and executives, leading to decisions that may not serve users or employees. Stone argues that founders should generally remain CEOs, with the board’s role being to support founders where they are weak rather than replace them. He contrasts helpful boards—like the one at his startup Jelly, which includes seasoned advisors Josh Elman and Bijan Sabet—with boards that act like a hammer, firing CEOs for short‑term financial gain. Stone highlights the practical value these experienced board members bring, offering ground‑level product advice and big‑picture perspective, and emphasizes preserving the dignity and careers of the original founders.
Chapters
So, how do you deal with, since these guys are embarking on starting companies of their own, how do you deal with some of the famous drama that happened at Twitter between co-founders, between early employees, and, you know, when you're sort of, everyone sees you as, like, Switzerland in these things.
Yeah, I try to be. I was adamant that we don't, Tie ourselves to any government, especially the US government, because I didn't want people thinking we were just a tool for you to spread democracy for the United States. I was very adamant about that.
But in terms of internally—
I just tied it to our brand, and I said, look, we need to— we want a good brand, we want to remain neutral. We say that— we've said publicly that we think freedom of speech should be a basic human right, and if And if it looks like we're working for someone secretly, then you know we can't be trusted. If we can't be trusted, everything falls apart. So we have to stand behind our work. And that's not what you asked me about. You asked me about drama. It doesn't. It's not always this crazy. When billions of dollars get involved, things get really wacky. I didn't realize that. I was in a four like a four. board meeting, and I was wondering why everyone was acting so strange suddenly. And the years flew by, you know, like, we were working on it, and all of a sudden it was 2, 3 years in, and it felt like a week, you know. And everyone was behaving so strangely. And then I realized that a lot of money was at stake, and that was what was causing them to behave Nowhere near in line with what was good for the people who use the service, or the service, or the people who worked on the service. The things that were being said just weren't matching up with any of the things that I was thinking was important.
Like, should sell the company, or yeah, those things.
Yeah, not everybody, but just some of the stuff that was said, I was like, this is totally incongruent with anything good. So, sometimes there's drama. There's not always drama. Sometimes you just, you know, get along really well with your founders and your board and everything's great. In this case, there was a lot of switching around and my main thing was just I really liked the guys that I started the company with and I was more concerned with You know, preserving their own dignity and their own careers and how they were being treated. But I mean, I also happen to think that a founder should stay the CEO of the company, and I thought it was the board's job to help where a founder was weak.
Right.
Not firing the founder because they're weak in a couple areas. A lot of times boards— boards can be really helpful. My board at Jelly is very helpful. Or they can just like, you know, they're a hammer and everything's a nail. And they can't— they're not going to get in there sometimes and make your product better or, you know, design something for you. So they'll just fire your CEO to do something.
To maybe have a better chance at making a ton of money, or?
Well, I don't know about that. I mean, but yeah, some board members think their main responsibility is fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. They do have that. I mean, it's other people's money that they're investing. I mean, that's true, but I think to do that best is really just to help the company the best that you can. And I'm lucky with the Jelly board. Josh Elman from Greylock and Bijan Sabet from Spark Capital are both people who have just been there and done that.
And who were early at Twitter as well, right?
Yeah, well— Josh Allen worked at Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn as a product manager, and he's just wonderful with actual, like, you know, feet-on-the-ground advice. And we ask him for a lot of help, and he even tells us, you don't ask me enough for help. And I'm like, what are you talking about?
You're like our go-to guy.
Every couple of weeks. He's like, Tim, at other companies you ask me every day. And Bijan was an early investor in Twitter, and He's sort of big picture wiser, you know? So it's just, it's so great when you have a really helpful board of directors. Sometimes—
And with Jelly—
You get too big too fast, they're swimming in water that's over their head, and, you know, it just gets all messy. But sometimes it's perfect.
