Guy Kawasaki talks about his path from Apple's Macintosh evangelism to founding companies and joining Canva. He stresses that entrepreneurs need to master hand-to-hand selling and actually make and sell things, not just talk about ideas.
Chapters
Thank you. That's a very nice intro. Thank you. So, we have an audience full of entrepreneurs and people who wanna be entrepreneurs, I think. It's safe to say that at least 70 or 80 of you are from Draper University, so you definitely wanna be entrepreneurs and you're already starting that journey. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm guessing. That you're here for the same reason, and you're here to hear from one of the guys who has probably more perspective on technology marketing, technology evangelism, and creating great ideas, and social media and engagement than a lot of people do, than almost anybody does. So Guy, thanks for taking the time to talk to everybody here.
Fine, let's do it.
So I want to ask you a bunch of questions about Canva, and entrepreneurship, and social media, and international marketing, because we have a very international crowd here, actually intergalactic. if you count the Wookiee in the front row. So I have a lot of questions about that, but I think for me, like, where I wanna start is like, when you were in the same kind of position that most of the people in this audience were in, you know, you're a business school student.
You mean young?
Yeah, young, exactly. A business school, you know, in business school or thinking about, you know, getting into business for the first time, like, tell us how you got started. Like, I wanna know about your journey. Like, there was a jewelry store or something in there, right? Yeah, yeah, it's a long and not planned story.
So I'm from Honolulu, Hawaii, and I went to Stanford. And when I was at Stanford, I met a guy named Mike Boich. And Mike Boich was who became the first evangelist for the Macintosh division of Apple. And we had a great time at Stanford, to put it mildly. And after Stanford, I I— obviously, I'm Japanese American. And so back then, this is before many of you were born, if you were Japanese American, your parents wanted you to be a doctor or a lawyer or a dentist. And I did not want to stick my hand in people's mouths or bodies. So all that was left was law. And I went to law school.
What year?
at UC Davis for about 2 weeks and quit because I just hated law school. And I actually viewed that as a confirmation of my inherent intelligence because most people practice law for 20 years before they figure out they're miserable. I did it in 20 days. So—
Already an early adopter.
That's right, that's right. So after that, believe it or not, I returned to Hawaii. It was now mid-year, right? And then the following year I returned to Los Angeles to go to UCLA for an MBA. And while I was getting my MBA, it was a 4-day-a-week curriculum there. I started working for a jewelry manufacturer in downtown LA, literally counting diamonds. And when all my colleagues from the MBA program were going to investment banks and consulting firms, I went to a family-owned small jewelry manufacturer. In downtown LA. And that was one of the best experiences of my life because I learned how to truly sell. The jewelry business is a very, very hand-to-hand combat selling business. And after that, I stayed in connection with Mike Boich, and he was at Apple. And, you know, he snuck me into the Macintosh division one day and he showed me Macintosh. And back then If you had an Apple II, and you were lucky if you had 80 columns as opposed to— I don't know how many columns.
40. I remember buying an 80-column card so I could go— yeah.
Yeah, so that was a big deal. Like, all of you are looking like, what the hell are you talking about? Anyway, so when I first saw MacPaint or MacWrite, i.e., WYSIWYG, mouse-based, all this kind of stuff, it was as if the clouds parted and the angels started to sing. It was a religious experience. And so I decided I wanted to get into high tech, and eventually I went to work for Apple as a software evangelist, and I stayed there 4 years, and then I left to start a Macintosh software company. And I did that for a while, then eventually I returned to Apple as Apple's chief evangelist and Apple Fellow. Then I left that to start an investment bank a boutique investment bank called Garage.com. And now I'm Chief Evangelist of Canva. And Canva is in the business of democratizing design just like Apple is in the business of democratizing computers. And I'm on the Board of Trustees of Wikimedia which is the organization that runs Wikipedia. And I am an Executive Fellow at Haas School of Business at Berkeley. And last but not least, I'm a Mercedes-Benz brand ambassador. So that's— I'm a busy boy. I have 2 of my children here with me tonight. I dragged them. Can you just check to see that, you know, we're probably framed here? Yeah?
All right. Okay. We're streaming live.
We're streaming live, yeah.
Facebook over there and Periscope and Draper University's thing. And I think they're recording us for posterity for Ed Draper as well.
Well, before we really— how many of you are not from the United States?
Wow.
Yeah, wow.
That's most of the audience. That's impressive.
Yeah.
That's impressive.
So one more thing before I let you continue.
Please.
So I want to tell you that on behalf of all of America, I want to apologize for Donald Trump. I want you to know that he does not represent Most Americans. He's an idiot. And if he gets elected president, which would truly mean that orange is the new black, it'll be a bad world. So just take him with a truckload of salt. I apologize for him. Now we can begin.
I'm glad you said that. So, so when you were starting out, you mentioned that— I'm interested in a couple phases of that early stage of your career. What did you, what did you learn? You said you learned how to sell from the jewelry business. Yes. And then it was very hand-to-hand. What does that, what does that mean? And has that carried forward? Is it like still useful to you in your life?
So this is a good entrepreneurial lesson for you because entrepreneurship can be divided into 2 simple processes. So somebody's got to make it and somebody's got to sell it. That's it. All the stuff about strategic partnerships and business development and chief culture officer, all that's bullshit. All right? All you have to do is make it and sell it. And so if you're not an engineer, you better be able to sell. And if you can't sell—
Even if you are.
Yeah. And if you can't sell, you better be an engineer. That's it. So this is a very valuable skill. And the hand-to-hand combat selling skills that I learned in the jewelry business, because it's a very competitive business— it's competitive because at some level jewelry is a commodity business. It may be an expensive commodity, i.e., gold and diamonds, but it is— 18-karat gold is 18-karat gold. And, you know, A diamond, along the parameters of clarity, cut, and you know caratage and all that, is a diamond. So it really is about hand-to-hand combat selling, and that is a very valuable skill. That you know not everything in the world is an A/B test, and not everything in the world is a focus group, and not everything is girl is big data. At some point, you're gonna have to press flash and really cut deals, and that is. So important.
So you mean, you're not just saying like, you know, one-on-one selling, you mean personal, like you have to get to know the person, talk to them face to face.
I mean, get on your knees and beg. Yeah, yeah, it is. I think there's a tendency to believe that everything is about big data and, you know, Google runs this thing where they make the underlining blue or they make the underlining red and they see, you know, which has better results and that's what selling is like, and it's really not true. It is hand-to-hand combat.
