Q&A part 4 | Tam Pham

So she's asking, like, how do you enter a conversation with 3 to 4 people in it? So before you even enter the conversation, you should look where their feet are. So can I get 2 volunteers real quick? Just come up, come up. All right. So pretend we're having a conversation, right? Here. Point your feet this way. Point your feet towards the middle. So we're all talking like this. And someone tried to come into our conversation.

I was wondering if this was true.

Yeah, yeah. So, so if you see their feet, all the feet were pointing towards, towards the middle, which means that it was a very closed conversation. You can tell by their body language that they don't want anyone coming in.

Okay.

Well, instead, if everyone had like their feet out and everyone was standing like towards an outer position where people can naturally come in, then you— that's a better time to say, oh, that's— this is a conversation that I could enter if I wanted to. Um, and you can do so comfortably without like interrupting their conversation and like ruining the flow. And so I wouldn't even worry about the topics. It's more like if you ever read the book How to Win Friends and Influence People, it's all about making them feel important. And so you would ask them questions about their dreams, their hobbies, their business, or whatever it is about them. And then when they share something, you can, you know, comment on that and share a little about yourself, revealing part of yourself while still contributing to the conversation. And so, you know, having a conversation is a whole different topic than like meeting people and like maintaining relationships. So we can talk about that more if you want in detail afterward. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, volunteer. Oh yeah, you want a book too? So who's the Asian? I can say that because I'm Asian. All right, cool. We can take a couple more and then I'll let you guys like work on your business and shit. So I feel weird asking this question.

Don't feel weird.

Do you have like a card or something like that that has your email on it, or can I just take your email? Yeah, you can get my email address on my website, but I don't have— I don't use business cards. I just don't like it. That's why I felt weird. No, no, that's the right thing to do. Most people have business cards. I personally don't. Okay, so definitely. Was this helpful? All right, cool. Some of you guys are sleeping. Some of you guys are really engaged. I love it. Yeah, what's up? You want a book too? Yeah, I'll give you a book.

I'll give you a book.

You're a big person who don't like to use social media, and you personally don't like to use business cards.

How can you teach us networking?

Yeah, yeah. So everyone has different ways of doing things, right? So I'm very unorthodox. So I think the best teachers actually arise from people who do things that aren't the right way or the standard way. Because you see, like for example, like Nate Robinson. If you're like 5 feet 8 or whatever, and like you should study him. Like how does a short guy compete against these 7 feet tall athletes? And so what Tim— I'm a big fan of Tim Ferriss's work. And what Tim Ferriss, he's a blogger and author. Yeah, four-hour work week. So what he would do, he would study like who are the best people in this field that aren't supposed to be really great. So don't don't think of it as like I don't if I don't do this and this, I'm not a great like networker or a great teacher. Think of more as like oh shit, he was able to get all these results using a different way. What? Who is he? What does he do? And how do you get there? And so I would encourage you to like just. Be like, like open that. Yeah, like it should be open. Like some, like people can make, like some, some businesses succeed without any social media. And you're like, holy shit, I guess what all I learned in these like jab, jab, jab, right hook books. But you know, like, right, but, but some people do it, right? Actually, the most successful businesses are the ones you don't actually see. Like the people who like transport like farm produce to, to and from stores, they're the most successful businesses because they make all the shit ton of money, but it's super boring and no one wants to do it. So I would encourage you to just like, just be open and don't think there's a right way to do anything. Okay, thank you. Here's a book. Thank you.

Yeah, what's up? What's your favorite book or books?

Oh my God, so many.

Or must-reads?

Business books or like regular books? I read like a book a week.

I'd say nonfiction.

Nonfiction?

Yes.

Give and Take by Adam Grant. How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. Choose Yourself: Guide to Wealth by James Altucher.

James what?

James Altucher. Adam Grant. He's a Warren professor. And I have a whole book list on my website. I just blanked on them.

All right.

I'll check it out. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Do you have a blog? I do have a blog. It's kind of outdated, but I just find Find me on Medium. Medium.com. What's up? You're looking at me like— you don't have your own domain? Because I kind of read your blog post before I applied over here. Oh, sick!

Yeah, so before I even applied to the university, I went through your blog post.

I mentioned it to a lot of my students.

Yeah.

And then I spoke to my dad before I even made a judgment about applying here or not. So based on everything I read, I felt that it would be a really good experience. So when you said medium and when you said you don't have your own domain, I know you have your own domain, but—

Oh, I see, I see. You're awesome. I do have my own domain, but I just don't really promote that. But that's awesome. What was your name?

Pralad.

Pralad?

Cool. So you got in because of me?

Yeah, like partly, yes.

You have to talk like a Carolinian.

It's all good. It's all good.

It's all good.

But that's awesome. Handshake and body language. Can you talk a little bit about body language? Talk about body language?

Yeah.

While networking, because it's kind of hard for me.

Definitely.

The body language is a whole different topic. And you can go really deep into it, because I study— I play online poker and a lot of poker. So I study body language and stuff. But the general framework is like, you should see if they have open body language or closed body language. If it's closed, like, you know, closed, it's like looking down, arms crossed, like shoulders reserved. So that's kind of a closed body language, and you can tell that they kind of don't want to be talked to, or maybe that's not the best time to enter the conversation. But when people have more relaxed, hands out, open body language, I'm not an expert, but you can kind of just A gut feeling to see if it's open body language or closed. And so instead of memorizing a bunch of body language, like, oh, if he scratches his head, that means he's not ready to talk. Don't memorize any of that. Just memorize the framework of open, closed, and you'll be fine.

You want a book? Yeah?

Hey, I'm just joking. I had a false book thing. Everyone gets a book. I don't know how to answer the question. It's all good. All right, um, what's up? Just scratch your head? Yeah, thinking of something smart to say. How you doing, man? You look so comfortable. Yeah, I'm comfortable. Man, you look so comfortable. These beanbags are sick. When we were here, we had those. We kind of missed the first part of the conversation because we were on the way.

That's messed up.

That's messed up.

Google that.

What are you doing right now? And what can we do for you? Thank you. I'm currently working as a community manager for a company called Mixuchi. It's kind of like Udemy for entrepreneurs, but specifically for entrepreneurs. And I'm helping my friend launch a new book in January. He brought me on to help be the marketing guy for it. So I'm doing that. To help me, I don't know, just read the book and spread the word. I don't really need anything right now. I'm pretty happy. So I really appreciate it, though. And I encourage you guys to like follow up with me. Like I'm super cool. I don't have anything going on, so I'll respond to your emails and shit. So yeah, it's fun. Tight. Tight. Last question. What's up?

I want to get to know some like Google guys. Google guys.

Google guys. Google. Oh, you want to work at Google?

No, I mean, I want to get to know some guys who work.

Okay.

So, um, please. So I heard that you know how to get some internship or something at Google.

Oh, you read the book?

No, I read your blog.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah. Is it possible for me to get some internship or something?

Yes.

How to?

So the question was, how to land an internship at Google?

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, so I can Do you want to internship at Google, or do you just want to know them?

I just want to know. Yeah, I just want to know the Google guys and having established a close relationship with them.

Okay, so Will wants to meet Googlers for what reason?

They are technical genius, so I want to start my own business like him.

So I need this. You want to hire people from Google to work for you?

I'm afraid not.

Pay them as— now. No, you want to meet Googlers. Why?

For co-founders, partners, or—

So you want to meet them to be the next co-founder?

Yeah, maybe perhaps.

Perhaps? Yes? No?

Yes, if they want. If they're willing to.

It sounds like you're a little bit confused on what your goal is. So I start off with the goal, and then if you guys want to help me out, like so for example, say you want to meet people at Google, right? What would be the what would be like kind of the first steps?

Hanging at their events.

What's that?

Hanging at their events, like going to their meetups and Google DevOps and yeah.

Yeah.

Second LinkedIn if you have like someone who has a connection at Google.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so all these suggestions are great. So.

But I didn't mean just normal networks. I know I met you once. I want to establish something more intimate or close.

Yeah.

That's the second step. That's the second step, right? You can't just get married to a woman right away. You got to date them first. You got to see if you're a good fit for each other. And then go on a third date, fourth date, whatever. And then ask, where are we right now? You know what I mean? Like, you gotta— it's not as easy as like, I wanna meet Google, and it's like bam, we're best friends. It's more a long-term process, which could even take years. And most people ignore networking because they don't wanna— they're not in it for the long term. They're in it just for like the short-term gain. They're just like taking, taking, taking.

Yeah.

But if you start now, just continue what you're already doing and think about like the long term of that relationship, then everything will become much better. We can talk more later, but I think you're getting the mindset and the framing wrong. And if I was unclear, I can definitely, um, talk to you more. Yeah, you guys already asked questions. Anyone else need to ask questions before I call you guys? No, I, I'll do these last 2, and then I know some of you guys are bored as hell, so we'll just get out of here.

All right, yeah, we didn't talk about intros. Maybe you have some tips about how to ask for intros in a more friendly way. Do you look through that person's connections and see who's relevant for you, or you just ask him if he has someone on top of his mind that he can introduce you with?

For introductions, I usually ask them if— I usually ask for a very specific person. So if I know Joey is into blockchain and I want to meet them in blockchain because of my project, I would say, you know, hey Katie, as you know, I'm working on this like blockchain project, and I noticed that on your LinkedIn you knew you're really close with Joey. Could you introduce me to Joey? Because I would love to learn, you know, XYZ, or because I would love to collaborate.

How can you know if he's close or if he's just like a random connection on LinkedIn? You can't, you can't actually, right?

Okay, forget the word close then. Just say I knew you were connected with positive people.

Yeah, I was wondering.

Or on Facebook, they're tagging a picture and they just hang out together.

Yeah.

Hey, you just hung out with Joey. I didn't know you know him because I was trying to reach him for the last like 2 weeks. Um, so it's definitely all situational, and you can kind of judge based on like where, how you know them, or how they interact with each other online. Or just even ask them like, hey, are you close with Joey? Like, I would love some, you know, his help on this, whatever you want. Um, can you make that happen? And, and what I also do, I take a step further, is I even include an email draft with them.

Yeah, that's what I— that was my next question.

I put an email draft in my email to them saying like, hey, if it's a good fit, here's an email draft you can literally copy and paste.

Like exactly the same email he would send actually, like introducing him and the entire email.

Yep, yep. To make it easier on his end to introduce because it could be a little time-consuming. Yeah. So you make it Like, you make it drop dead easy for them to say yes. That's what you want. Same as like any sale too. All right, last question.

How do you land an internship at Google?

I had— my second book actually is actually called How to Land Your Dream Internship, so buy that shit.