Episode 38 – The Human Side of Protective Intelligence

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Welcome to Executive Checkpoint, where security professionals gather insights to navigate the ever-evolving world of physical and cybersecurity. I am your host, Tino Urbina, and today I'm joined by Olivia Arnauts, US Army veteran, partner at ZFIS, and a specialist in protective intelligence investigations and global risk. Olivia brings a powerful perspective on how forcing discipline and intelligence-led security, excuse me, can help organizations identify threats before they escalate. We're excited to have her, learn from her journey, the lessons from the field, and her view on where protective intelligence is heading next. Olivia, welcome to the show.

Yes, thank you so much for hosting me.

Excellent. And, you know, we talked about this earlier, but, you know, as much visibility as you have in the industry, being a founder of your own company, We'd love to start from the beginning. You, you grew up, um, in a small town, Montana, you know?

Actually, a really small town in Utah. I spent a little bit of my childhood in Montana, but most of my childhood was spent in a very small town of about 400 people in the middle of nowhere in Utah.

What about that? So obviously, um, you went from a small town to being with the U.S. Army at 17.

Yes.

You know, most— you know, I have 3 girls. Most of them are thinking about prom and other things. So what— tell me about that transition.

Yes, I was not really a typical girl, I'll say that. But, um, growing up in a really small town and not having a lot of access to— I don't know, just being able to even envision a future for myself. There wasn't a lot of career opportunities. I really didn't want to be there anymore, so I was kind of looking for my way out, and I knew college Wasn't really going to be in my plan right away. And fortunately, I had several uncles who had joined the military, and I have one brother who joined the Navy. So when he joined, he's about 8 years older than me. So I got to really witness his experience and how it changed his life. And I said, I want to do that. I like to joke that I picked Army so I could still bully him because he's my big brother. So I had to be a little bit cooler than him.

That's funny. Because, you know, I, I think, like, like I said, most, most kids are thinking differently and looking to maybe go to college or get a job. And so this is a big dynamic. So you were trained as a signal intelligence analyst?

Yes.

So you were intercepting communications, reading patterns and data. So how did that experience forge where you are today?

I got really fortunate. As you said, I was a signals intelligence analyst. That's a 35 November in Army language. But I went to my AIT, which is where they teach us our job. I spent about 8 months in training. And then we all, of course, requested Hawaii and they let us know, you know, maybe 1 or 2 will get it. You're not really going to get that lucky. And then we got really lucky. My whole class went to Hawaii. So I had about 10 people I'd been being trained with for the last 8 months. And we all, we all headed over to Hawaii. I got really fortunate and got tasked to the NSA. So really at freshly 18 years old, I jumped headfirst into the mission set. And I really think having that opportunity, especially at such a young age when I had, you know, the passion and the drive to do it, it really set me up for a career of interest in intelligence. And so I got very fortunate to be sent there for my first duty station and to be able to jump into a mission like that.

Wow, that's very impressive. And of course, you know, that, that is a very different skill set when people think about military, right? When we talk about intelligence, and data analysis is such a different skill that of course changes the way you look at things.

Yes.

And I'm sure it's also most people walk past some information that otherwise to you is obvious. Tell us a little bit about that. How does your mindset shift, especially since you've been doing it for this long?

Yes, yes. I mean, really, I like to think of what we do now especially as like we're really turning over every stone. We want to know every single worm that's under every single rock. every single rock and speck of dust because it could be relevant. And sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's really extra information that's not very useful for the mission. But just being able to understand the importance of gathering all of the information that there is and then going on to analyze. I think some of the issues in our industry right now is people are quick to just wanna pass information, whether it's important or not, and really taking the time to dive deeper into it and analyzing how it could actually impact a mission. Even if it doesn't seem like a big deal, Things can change, things can evolve, and always understanding what's happening across the playing field is really important. And I've been fortunate enough, we have some partners now who have signals capabilities, which has been really fun for me. Give a shout out to Geogencia if you've never heard of them. They're absolutely incredible. And so being able to even use that skill set from my military time to support clients now is a really interesting journey as well. It's kind of come full circle.

That's excellent. And, you know, especially nowadays, um, I think, uh, having and gathering intelligence is such an essential part of the security, um, organization, right? Via corporate or government or NGOs. Um, it changes, and the world is changing so much and so fast for many different reasons, including cybersecurity attacks are getting more sophisticated thanks to AI, and it's only going to get more interesting. We'll talk about that. Uh, but, you know, um, few people know that they're gonna be in the industry. Most of us stumble into it. What was your— what's your story? How do you evolve from the military to the private side? What was that like?

So after I left the military, I, uh, started applying for some positions in corporate security, um, and I got interviewed for a role within global security and incident response for ExxonMobil. And I was still very young, I will say. And, you know, the military was really my only professional experience. So I wasn't sure how I was going to get that job, but I really wanted it. And I met with the team and they were, of course, much more experienced than I was. Many of them were retired CIA or Secret Service. And they just welcomed me with open arms and gave me the opportunity to show that the experience is not as important as the skill set or the ability to learn the skill set. And so I got very fortunate and the team just brought me in. And so that was my first job outside of the military, and I absolutely loved it. Team of 4, you know, rotating shift work 24/7. And this was right when COVID was happening, which was kind of interesting because there's days where I'm in this giant Exxon campus and it's just me and the security guard on site. I mean, everybody else is working from home, but it was really interesting. And it also showed me how I could evolve those skill sets from my time in service into something that's relevant for civilian sector security, which I wasn't sure how to communicate that or translate that at the time. But it really showed it's just the ability to analyze that data, to know what to look for, to be proactive in going out and looking for information that could impact the organization. So it was really a blessing to land into that job and be able to jump into that right after my time in service, because I know that transition is scary for a lot of people and it can take time to find your footing.

I mean, you're coming from, from a place where you have access to multi-million dollar solutions and shifting to the corporate world is like, well, here's a computer. So let me ask you, private sector, right? What, what is they— what do they understand and what they completely miss?

Oh, that's a good question. That's a very good question. Um, it's, it's interesting because I feel like some organizations, their security teams don't have a background in military or a background in law enforcement or other positions that would give you that essential perspective of what's beyond just your funnel. I mean, there's people that they're really focused on just what's right in front of them, but I think with a more different background like military or law enforcement, it really widens that and broadens that. So you have more of an idea of what could happen. At the end of the day, and I think corporate security, a lot of the time they want to, they want to make sure that it's easy and smooth rather than really effective. I think I see a lot of reactivity in common corporate security rather than proactivity, which is really what drives me nuts, because if we can see something is potentially going to happen and we act prior to that, then we can prevent bad things from happening. But if we're sitting there at our computers just waiting for something to happen, then There's not much you can do at that point other than alert people and help them to respond to it. But a little bit more proactivity would benefit the corporate security space a lot.

Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, it's reactive and it's only until something happens, then budgets become available and planning becomes available. And it feels like it's almost like a cycle, then something happens and then react, they spend a lot of money and then interest drops.

And then it's over and they think that they're good now.

Yeah.

It's not an if, it's a when circumstance, and it's something you really have to stay on top of.

Especially now this, I mean, everything is moving so fast. And, um, well, so at one point in time, you and your husband Ralph, right? You guys decided, you know, ah, this is, this is interesting, but let's do our own thing. And so you started a company, CFIS.

Yes.

Which I Early asked you what that stands for. Can you please, please tell us what it stands for?

I can, and I will apologize if anybody is offended by profanity, uh, but as I told you, it is not meant to be profane. It comes from, from a purpose. Um, but ZFIS stands for Zero Fucks Investigative Services, uh, and anybody who's a veteran will understand that zero fucks does not necessarily mean you don't care. It means that sometimes you are in the suck and you have no other choice but to embrace it, to push through it, to get to where you need to go. And it's not gonna be fun and you're not gonna be having a great time, but there's a purpose in that pain. And so for us, the ZF and the Zero Fucks, it stands for pushing through. And we were talking about, we were brand new, you know, bootstrapped founders and we didn't have an established network. We really jumped into it. And there's a reason behind that. There's a story behind that. We knew that it wasn't going to be a blast, and we knew that the first couple of years were going to be really, really difficult and require a lot of effort and intention and discipline. And so for us, it was just a reminder that this is going to be a journey, and it's not going to be a journey that's overnight success, but it's going to be something that we can create and build even in the suck.

See, I love that. And again, if you, if you're in the military, you probably understand that that's that is part of the culture.

Yes.

And I think that that just feels so right on the security side. So hey, congrats on that. And you know what, for an entrepreneur, I mean, we have Eric Magger, founder of a company that every single person he told his idea, they said it was stupid. And then here we are, fast forward, he's just sold the company to one of the largest, you know, larger enterprise groups.

And yep, in our early days, we called that reality checking. Because there's a lot of people that want to come to you and give you advice and tell you that, you know, your idea is not going to work or it's going to be too difficult. And you got to ignore the reality checkers because it's up to you what you can build. And I think the only people who don't make it when they're trying to start a business are those people that let those thoughts get into their minds and they let themselves get to a point where they give up. I mean, they quit on it. And if you don't quit and you ignore the naysayers, then you can build something that, you know, you feel in your heart can work.

So you see, what I hear, Olivia, is you chasing this dream since early stages when you, you know, small town Montana, I gotta get out of here, reach out to the next best thing, the military. Then, you know, I, I see it, right? That, that is sometimes something you learn in life, but sometimes it's part of you. Congrats.

Yes, thank you so much. I definitely have always been an ambitious person. I always want to chase something that's a little bit bigger and better and really want to create a legacy in my life and I come from a very strange family, we'll just say. I love them dearly. I mean, I mean that in the best kind of way. I know they will not be offended by that. Um, but, uh, it, it's, it's— so I'll give you a little backstory. Um, I grew up in what probably most people would consider a religious cult. Uh, my grandpa founded the town, um, you know, and, um, it was interesting, we'll just say. And, you know, my own— my dad, he had ran away from his own abusive home at 14 and hitchhiked across America to land in this place. So there's a lot of ambition, there's a lot of drive, there's a lot of— I wouldn't say reckless, but, you know, I'm gonna make a decision whether other people think it makes sense or not. There's a lot of that in my family. We're just not afraid to make a choice and to go and chase after something. So I think part of that does come from watching, you know, how my parents created their own legacy when they didn't have a lot. And I wanted to do the same in my own way. And so that's kind of how we ended up here.

But see, now you touch on something, and that to me is personal, which is in my life, because of, you know, I come from another country. So establishing here 30 years ago, you kind of learn to live in what I consider a gap, right? You're neither successful or a failure, but you're in between, and that in between makes you stronger. So I have a saying that Yeah, you can't— you have to make a decision and then make it right.

Yes, I always say you can't choose the hand that you're dealt, but you do get to choose how you play the cards. And so we might not come from—

let me write this one down—

we don't have family wealth, we don't have, you know, this stepping stone into success, but we for sure can build it and we can make it happen. And I think that that drive and that ability to embrace the suck, for example. I think that that's key to becoming successful and to push through the difficulties that you're going to face in the trails. But if you come from a background that has some struggle in it, I find that those abilities and those personality traits that come from my own childhood have really benefited this journey wholeheartedly.

See, to me, this is the gold of our conversations. Right? People get to confirm what they might feel already, that they belong in that, you know, gap, if you will, or that, like, that's an interesting perspective. But let's go back a little bit about your business and the way you perceive security, right? You use protective intelligence as part of your motto within your organization. Tell us a little bit about that. What does that entail? How is that different from a traditional established private investigation firm?

So I like to use the typical definition of protective intelligence to explain it, but it's the process of gathering and analyzing information about a person, a place, or an entity that has the ability or the intent to cause you harm. So I think a lot of it is very, very, very proactive, which can be difficult to translate to corporate security, but it's, it's the effort of doing threat and vulnerability assessments prior to anything happening. I mean, before there's ever a concern, it's threat monitoring. If you do notice something that is of concern, it's global due diligence, travel intelligence prior to boots being on the ground. You know, we need to know what's happening in the different regions that you're going to and the safety levels and the responsive, like, how do you get to help if you need it? And what can you anticipate might happen? How is it going to escalate? Things of that nature. And so a lot of the time it is kind of that proactive step of let's figure out what we need to be concerned about now so that we can move forward and continually monitor those concerns so that we can respond as quickly as possible in the most effective way. But for us, a lot of the time it means— a lot of the time it's global due diligence, either on persons, places, or businesses. I like to sum it up to say I can tell you anything you need to know about a person, place, or business around the world, which is really helpful for a variety of clients. And we support anything from corporate security to litigation support, ultra-high net worth individuals. It just depends on, on what they're looking for really, but it can go across a variety of industries, which I really enjoy.

I like that. And of course, you know, investment banking nowadays also, it's another client that in the past for security, and especially now with intelligence and, you know, the fact that business is global and investment is global, we see it more and more. You mentioned the gap between physical and ground intelligence, right?

Right.

So who owns that when something happens? Who owns that in the corporate world in your perspective?

That's a good question. Well, I really think that if you're running a great security program, you're going to have the different sides of the coins that can work together. So you're going to have the cyber end, you're going to have the boots on the ground, you're going to have the investigative arm, and they should all communicate, you know. And we've been really fortunate in the past when working with, for example, a corporate security team. They're at an event and we're doing the OSINT monitoring. We're looking at the social media communications. We're looking at the region, what's happening. Are people talking? Are they planning protests? Have these people protested in the past where it escalated to a violent level? You know, all of these different things. And we're constantly feeding this type of information to the team on the ground so that they're able to look around and perceive the intelligence that we're getting them before it's actually happening. So really it's— technically, I'd say the boots on the ground guys are going to have to deal with the situation. I mean, they're the ones that are there, but we're able to really give them that advance Situational awareness so that they can do their job well, because their job shouldn't be trying to figure out what's about to happen. It should be preparing for anything that could happen and being able to handle that situation as it comes. So if they have that prior awareness, that allows them to be way more prepared than just waiting for something bad to happen, essentially.

Right. And, you know, blind is never good in an operation. So having the most reliable intelligence is always going to give you the better Unresolved, less risk and less potential, you know.

Yes. And it allows the team on the ground to really do their job, you know, and to really focus on what they're supposed to be doing. Because if you've got these guys that are supposed to be physical security, EP, and they're also supposed to be in charge of, you know, understanding the situation around them, that's, that's going to complicate how they can support the client. And they should be able to focus on one job at a time and have the support that they need to do that job extremely well.

So, you know, let's talk about the client for a second. This is the operational side, but from a client standpoint of view, when you're engaging with someone through the lens of intelligence, what kind of digital breadcrumbs create most risk? What, what are the giveaways without realizing it companies or individuals put themselves at?

We could probably talk about this for hours, to be honest with you. Big issue. I mean, especially when we have executives, for example, that don't have experience in security, they don't have experience in military law enforcement, they really don't have an understanding or concept of how they can be targeted or how it's going to happen or what they're giving away.

Why?

What kind of breadcrumbs are they leaving? They're just not aware. And so it's really important that we have these conversations and for people to understand and consider this. For us, a lot of the time we'll do something called a vulnerability assessment, and it's, it's a digital vulnerability assessment. So what I'm doing is I'm acting as a bad actor. Let me see how much information I can gather on you, your family, your team, and I can come back and tell you your kids' names and ages. I've got a photo of their face. I know their routine, the clubs that they're a part of. I know the route you take to drive home. I know your hours. I know your favorite bar on the weekends. You know, there's all this kind of information that feels like it's not that big of a deal, and a lot of people want to have a relationship with people online, so they really share a lot. about themselves on social media, but anybody who has ill intentions will use that information as a way to profile you and to create an avenue where they have access to you or your children. I mean, especially when we think about how heavily things like net worth are reported in the media.

Yeah.

I mean, you think that that should be private information, but if you're a millionaire, it's going to be published somewhere. And if somebody doesn't like you or has a problem with you, I mean, there's so many ways that they can harm you financially, emotionally, physically with the information that you're sharing, you know, on social media, for example. Or there's also like third-party data aggregators that just gather up this information. Of course, they sometimes sell it for advertisement purposes, or that's how you're getting those calls for all the random things you don't need. But that stuff can be removed, that stuff can be scraped. And so Understanding that your data is out there. I know where you live. I know your kids' names. I know your whole family. I know your financial status, all of those kinds of things without any extra tools.

Right.

Keep in mind, you don't have to have a license to get this information. It's just out on the internet. So really understanding how your own personal overexposure threatens not only your safety, but your families and your teams, and even the business. I mean, people can use it for reputational harm. They can really go after you and it's I think people overshare a lot.

You know, I have a friend that we always remind her, if it doesn't happen on Facebook or Instagram, it doesn't happen. It's not the way to live your life.

Yes.

It's so dangerous.

Sorry, I was gonna say, just, I'll just add this. If you're going to travel somewhere, please do not post yourself on a plane the day of. I mean, that just tells people that the house is empty. You're gonna be gone for this many days. You're at this event. You know, it gives information that you might not realize you're giving, but it's It's too much. Post it a week later.

You mentioned one, uh, thing that a C-level executive or a high-visible network individual might do. Don't, don't, you know, tell people that your home is, uh, available for entry. What else would you recommend, uh, to reduce exposure for, for these individuals? And, you know, honestly, corporations sometimes do Similar things. So a couple of things that you can think of, not theory, actionable.

Well, I'm the kind of person who likes to protect my internet activities. I always advise people to be using a VPN, use an incognito browser, don't be logging onto public computers and leaving things accessible. Everybody knows not to leave your laptop open on the plane or the train, but people still do it. As well as just being cautious about social media, and that's a big one. I know people want to have people get to know them, and that's, that's great. You know, you should have a persona and give people the opportunity to get to know you, but you can do it cautiously. And being careful about the photos you share. Don't post a photo of you in front of your home. You know, even on your street, for example, us OSINT nerds will figure it out in 2 seconds. But making sure that you're not oversharing about travel plans, about your own personal family, about private business details, for example. And going— and like I said, you can redact that data from those third-party aggregators. You could go search yourself, go Google your own name right now, and if it shocks you, then, then you've got some steps to take. And it shouldn't terrify you, but it should be something you take seriously. So Google yourself, go to those websites like BeenVerified or, you know, peoplesearch.com, you know, go to those different websites and request your information to be removed. It takes 2 seconds. You know, it might be tedious if there's a lot of them, but it's doable and you can do it for free on your own. So just protecting your own PII is really, really important for personal safety.

And, you know, if you're a corporation or a C-level individual, find a professional. That always is going to be my fallback because whether— whatever you think you can do online or with the traditional tools, sometimes for that level of risk, let's put it that way, should be done or at least managed, at least be aware through a professional.

Right.

Believe that you're definitely aware. Right.

And the time, you know, we don't always have the time to deal with these kind of things. So absolutely. And there's going to be sites that aren't right there in your face that still exist. So having somebody who has an understanding of the internet, of the wide web, and understanding how to get to that information that's not just right on the surface is very important as well.

Well, I'd like to pivot a little bit because you're obviously very passionate about everything you do. It's clear.

Yes.

But also, as a professional, you carry protection of victims and people that unfortunately went through human trafficking. In fact, you have a mission with Relentless Revival Save Heaven. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

I'm sorry, Tino, could we not mention that? We, uh, long story short, but we kind of had to step away from the nonprofit side. We still do work in that space, so I'd love to talk about it. And we investigate a lot of institutional abuse. We investigate missing persons, uh, or subjects of interest that we're aware are trafficking people, um, for example, you know, massage parlors. But the nonprofit entity Relentless Revival is on pause for now. Understand.

No problem, I understand. So tell us a little bit about that side of the intelligence, right? You're saying that you're still protecting those folks and then you are in the mission. Uh, tell us a little bit about that side then.

Yes, and this is definitely a personal passion of mine. I unfortunately was a childhood survivor of sexual abuse, um, had to go through the process of convicting my own abuser just a few years ago, which was interesting. He'd been serving his time for other victims and then had to serve for mine. So it was a very personal experience that I went through. And that's part of the reason why I joined the military as well. I wanted to get far away, you know, and just kind of start fresh was my number one goal. But not everybody has that opportunity. And so for me to see people who are still being victimized, who are still in a place where they don't get to live the life of comfort and peace that they should, I can't sit still with that. So there's, there's things that we get to work on that are incredible, and they make a difference. A lot of the time that looks like it's investigating institutional abuse. So like troubled teen industry, you know, they will send the children to these camps to have assistance with behavioral issues. But a lot of these camps, they have problems of their own. And so, you know, they are really sending these kids into, into something that is going to harm them even more. Even without that awareness, they think it is something helpful, but it is not. So we investigate harmful groups like that. We do investigate missing persons on, on occasion, or subjects of interest. A lot of the time, if you want to think about something very typical, massage parlors. They're not always massage parlors. They're also not always nail salons. There's typically something else happening behind the scenes. And if we're able to analyze that in a way that we can provide a cookies on the bottom shelf report to law enforcement, then we are able to make a difference. And unfortunately, law enforcement is restricted a lot of the time in time, money, ability to look into things that, that they know is a problem because they've got so many assignments or they have to get approvals. But We don't, so we have the full freedom to investigate any group or any location that we want and provide that information to law enforcement to really give them that step up without having to do that process themselves. So we we try to make a difference in that space based on our own personal passions and just want to help people to get to a place where they can live the life that they deserve because I obviously went through it myself and understand that if you don't get that escape. Like I got through the military, a lot of the time you feel stuck. And unless you have somebody to kind of reach their hand into the darkness, you— it's hard to break through those clouds.

I understand. And I'm sorry that your passion comes from such a terrible experience, but it illustrates that you can make of what happened to you a positive. And I feel very impressed that you've done such a tremendous positive move to protect others. And in the news in the last few weeks, you know, originally Dallas office of the FBI put a report out there for similar abuse. Now this is digital with a group, 764. And, you know, if you're not aware of it, this is a good time to make you fully aware if you have kids. I'm aware.

Yes.

This is a terrible, terrible group.

If your kids use the internet, if your kids use Roblox or social media platforms, you need to be aware of these things. And keep in mind that this is a group of concern right now, but there's going to be other groups of concern. And you can't just kind of block that out and pretend like it's not happening because it, you know, it— the internet's a scary place, especially for children. Um, but yeah, that's, that's a really awful, uh, group right now that's targeting children and It's terrifying as parents. You know, you have to be aware though and not block that out because it makes you uncomfortable. You have to really kind of face that head on and even have conversations with your children that you might not be comfortable with. But they need to know what the real world is like and what they're up against, especially if they're allowed to access the internet. So I think having those kind of conversations with your children is really important as well.

Yeah. And, you know, to me, it's an uncomfortable conversation you imagine you never need to have with your kids. My kid will never send a picture of themselves, you know?

Right.

And the reality is so many ways that that could happen. And unfortunately, this is an age when they're vulnerable and emotional.

Right.

And we have to have these conversations. We have to make them aware that this is not a one-up. This is, like you said, the pool that we're jumping in if we're going to be online. And so education, not avoidance, is going to be the key. I do— I'd probably put a link to the information, FBI. If you have a— if you're a parent of a teen or a young adult, you should definitely take a, take a quick look. But let's talk about a little bit of words of wisdom for security professionals in our audience, right? The one responsibility for protecting people, brand, and organizations every day. What are the early warning signs and their most likely missed? Another obvious one is the quick signals that you show up before something becomes a crisis. You mentioned that earlier. What are those?

I would say something that's typically missed with typical physical security teams is the social media aspect. You know, they're really concerned about who's coming to the locations that they're at or who's, you know, badging into the doors and what's happening on site. But they really need to consider that online factor as well, because, you know, if you look, most Most executives have been around for a long time. They're wealthy. They have reputations that can go either way. And so it's really important to understand who's talking about the brand, who's talking about the executives online, and what is the sentiment of that and has it progressed? Is it going more towards an aggressive stance? Is it, for example, Reddit forums? I love Reddit for investigations. It's so funny because you can find anything on Reddit. You'd be shocked. You can find full hate threads. I mean, 800,000 people talking about a CEO in not a great way. I mean, they'll be sharing private PII. They'll be talking about where they are going to be next weekend. What kind of event are they going to be at? What does the security look like at that event? And you'd be shocked at the kind of information that people really do discuss online. And sometimes that is a closed forum. You know, sometimes that you're not going to be able to see that. But a lot of the time, it's just surface. Not all of these bad actors are tech savvy. I mean, some of them are, but a lot of the time you're able to find threatening or concerning information out on the open web. And so I think it's really important to continue to monitor content mentioning the CEO, mentioning the executive team, even the security staff, the company, the brand, the address. You need to be seeing where that's popping up online and what is the sentiment of that and how could it progress. Essentially, and if there's a subject of interest, for example, one person in particular who's posting 2 times a day about the CEO or how much he hates the company, I mean, that's somebody you need to consistently monitor. And I do think that that digital side, the online side, does get lost when teams are really focused just on the physical security side. But in today's day and age, the internet is critical for understanding your security standpoint and what's, what's happening around you. It's not always going to be visible in person, but it can be black and white online.

Right. And, you know, again, I will defer back to if you don't have the time, defer to a professional. You know, aside from the cost of doing it, the cost of not doing it. And this is, to me, this is another side that sometimes organizations totally miss. It's not the cost upfront, it's if it does happen, would you want to be on the receiving end of the cost of the loss of trust and the loss of branding credibility, etc., etc.?

So, you know, yes, hire groups like ZFIS to monitor your online sentiment to ensure that your PII is not being blasted all over the internet for people to use for ill purposes. I think, I think it's very essential to understand the digital standpoint of it, and we're always happy to help, of course.

Of course. And can find you on LinkedIn. This is where to reach you out.

Yes, I'm on LinkedIn, and then our website is zfisolutions.com. I'm not on other social media platforms because I don't like to overshare, so, uh, but I am on LinkedIn.

She is a practitioner of her own advice.

Yes, absolutely.

Well, you're a veteran, Olivia. You're a woman, of course, an entrepreneur, and, um, in the space that not always is, you know, likes everyone, uh, of those things, unfortunately. What would you advise someone, a young woman coming into the industry? What are your words of wisdom for that young woman coming into the industry now that you have played such a role that, you know, you're guiding and mentoring others?

Yes, I love that question. I'm really glad you asked that. My number one, what I think is really important is to not put too much emphasis on the fact that you're a female. I mean, it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. Go into that door like you were sent for a reason. Do your job well. And don't, you know, for example, like Exxon, I was the only female on our small team. But you have to make a point to not draw attention to that. I mean, it really doesn't matter. You do your job well. You have self-discipline. You're proactive. You're a go-getter. That's what matters. It's your skill sets. It's your personality. It's your ability to to do your job really well. And I think if you put too much emphasis on, I'm a girl, I'm in the room, you know, that just brings attention to something that could affect you in a negative way. I mean, it's not that they don't want you there. It's just that they want you to just come do your job. And if you do your job well, I have personally never had an issue with being the only female on the team. And I've frequently been the only female on the team. But really just remind yourself that that doesn't matter. And what matters is your ability to do your job really well and to be there to support your team. And I don't think that they'll mind either, as long as you're doing, you know, what you need to do. And just remind yourself that you can do it, basically. And it doesn't— and I think it's important for us to have men and women on teams because we do have different perspectives and we do have different skill sets and things that are stronger on both sides. And if we can work together, I think that we're able to cover a lot more than we would without that.

I appreciate that. As a father of 3 girls, that's, that's one great advice. Um, so what's the one principle, the one piece of wisdom you will want to share with a security professional who wants to do this, uh, not just for work but to make a real lasting impact in the industry?

That's a good question too. I would say not to get lazy. I mean, you've got to really stick to it all the time. You've got to Know what the goal is and push forward towards it. I mean, you can't— in today's day and age, like we were talking about a lot, it's— you have to be proactive. You cannot sit around and wait for something bad to happen. You need to be the one that's going out and seeking out the information to make a difference and to prevent something from happening. And as long as you're continuously doing that and learning all of the new things that are happening— I mean, learn about the internet, learn about AI, understand how it's going to affect your job and your career, even if you're— your employer is not telling you to. I mean, you really have to stay on top of how the security industry is evolving to stay with, with the crowd and to keep moving through. But if you care and you're passionate and you put effort into being proactive and doing everything you can to prevent bad things from happening, you will be successful and you will continue to move on. It's just reminding yourself what matters and the people that you're caring for and even the infrastructure you're caring for, it matters and it affects people's lives and families. And at the end of the day, it's important. So you should be able to find that passion inside of you to really push to do it as best as you can.

That's great advice. And again, we're not just serving a company, we're serving the greater good of people and this world. So I appreciate it, Olivia. Thank you so much, not just for the time today, but for the way you approach your work, the idea that you can take hard-earned intelligence skills and place them to protect people and lift up the most vulnerable in this world. It's highly appreciated.

Thank you.

There's so much more we can talk about— travel intelligence, dark web monitoring, AI, and the future of protection intelligence— but I think we'll leave that for a part 2. What do you think?

That sounds great. Thank you so much for having me. It was really good to chat with you.

Absolutely. And for those at home watching and/or listening in all the usual podcast platforms, stay protected, stay smart, and keep on learning. And this is Executive Checkpoint. We'll see you in the next chapter.

Thank you.